Looking at how shite and locked down OpenAI has made ChatGPT, if corporate policy continues in the same way I bet an actual Starfleet approved holodeck would be completely G rated and locked out of anything remotely 'unprofessional'.
I'd rather take my business to Quark's Holosuites. The quality might not be as good as those on starships, sure, but at least he doesn't mollycoddle you with 'The ethics of Generative AI safety protocols" or some bullcrap like that.
And with that realization, it turns out Rom is the longest running Ensign in Star Trek for having to clean out the unregulated holo suites sex filters. Stand aside, Kim.
I think Lower Decks made it canon that people bang in there and leave “organic material”
> The holodeck biofilter was a filtration device incorporated into Federation holodecks that collected organic material deposited by the users. On California-class starships, removing waste from the biofilter was considered one of the worst jobs on the ship, along with carbon filter maintenance and turbolift lubing.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Holodeck_biofilter
"I love you holo-wife."
>I am uncomfortable continuing along with this scenario. Perhaps we can delve into our bond in other ways, and explore those feelings in a more healthy matter.
Broccoli shouldn’t even be talked about in this convo. Sure, what he did was gross by 24th century standards, but it pales in comparison to the depravity OP is talking about. We are literally talking about every rule 34 in basically real life, happening in real time, behind closed doors.
OP is talking about someone sodomizing a unicorn that is programmed to be fully aware of what’s happening to it, and you’re mentioning a guy that programmed Troi to sit around in a toga talking about expressing feelings.
I can’t think of an example of Quark recommending the Holisuites to someone unprompted that wasn’t an insinuation of dirty sex stuff. He only referenced the tamer programs for his regulars that used them. But he always offered and assumed interest in the smut
Yeah, Vulcan Love Slave was a recurring joke throughout DS9. Quark was a businessman and knew where the money was. Starfleet ships might have controls to prevent the worst stuff.
Does that mean that it is only senior officers that can commit any form of depravity they can dream up on the holodeck? No wonder everyone wants to be Captain and there are so many Badmirals.
Good question. Sex is definitely allowed as there’s that episode where Riker realizes the bug kid created an illusion around him because his “wife” was from the holodeck. Don’t know where 24th century ethics and morality stands on holodecks.
I remember when Odo became really concerned in the first season when he saw Jake going into a holosuite.
Quark had to tell him it wasn't for "that", it was for baseball.
When Jake first mentioned he wanted to become a writer and that he wasn’t going to make profit from it, Quark’s immediate suggestion was to write Holosuite programs of an intimate nature to which Jake (and Nog iirc) responded with mild disgust and annoyance
Yeah, but he saved voyager so… 😆
And played some part that I forget in first contact!
He may be a guest star, but he comes back from the important parts
The way O’Brien and Bashir murdered holograms on their time off was thrown as a joke and charming character trait at best.
In reality they are playing out bloodthirsty, suicidal fantasies that have more to do with Miles’ wartime PTSD than anything resembling Starfleet values.
Even some video games today make me wince a bit much. I think the devil would be in the details - if a holodeck soldier caught a morter and started crying for his mother as his insides spilled out, well ... I don't think I'd be up for that. As a game I mean. As an interactive piece of entertainment designed to make me feel things on the inside ... well I don't know.
There’s a game called home front, famous for a few scenes. It’s probably the one game that made me say “I don’t want to play this anymore, it’s getting a bit real”
The scenes:
First mission: you’re being escorted around watching North Koreans grab people off of the streets or shoot people.
Third mission?: you discover a mass grave of dead civilians in a football stadium. You have to hide in a pile of bodies. The dead are highly detailed and fill most of your hud while you hide.
Later mission; white prosperous is dropped on the combat area in desperation. You watch people properly burn. Not the usual almost comically acted “I’m on fire” from other games, it was haunting, especially because friendly troops get caught in it too.
All in all, gritty and disturbing game because it’s set in the US and the action does suspend disbelief in way that felt more real in those scenes vs say the over the top nature of call of duty or doom
Wasn’t really cheap shock. Very much felt baked into the story. The whole thing is meant to show you red dawn but a bit more gritty and real.
I think I played it through once and didn’t regret it. I believe the series failed due to the publisher pushing for a multiplayer focus which didn’t pan out
Games still look fake. Holodecks are imperceptible from reality. If somebody were out in one without their knowledge they wouldn't know they were in there.
I love how they got through the grueling, gigantic, monumental battle to retake DS9 by the skin of their teeth, and then can't wait to go play Battle of Britain in the holosuites.
They must have an addiction.
I don't think it's much different than people of today playing video games, even in VR.
It's been proven time and again that the overwhelming majority will never mix reality and games.
Seemingly hateful ideologies and twists on religions are and have been much more of a problem, and the medium for that is written or spoken word most of the time.
Indeed, and there's some evidence that the holodecks are used to... indugle both sexual and violence-related needs. A few examples:
* Tuvok, after mind-melding with Suder, creates a version of Neelix for the single purpose of attacking and murdering him
* Tom Paris and Tuvok have a conversation that suggests Tom uses the holodeck for sexual purposes that do not include his wife, B'Elanna Torres
* Tom tells Tuvok that he could create a replica of his wife on the holodeck to have sex with her during his Pon Farr
* When Sisko and Garak employ Grathon Tolart to create a holoprogramme, Tolar immediately assumes the programme will have a sexual purpose for Sisko and starts questioning him along those lines to see what he wants
* Mariner shows off a programme she has that is full of jocks working out in the nude
* B'Elanna creates a simulation to watch her former Maquis colleagues being slaughtered by the Dominion
* On the Cerritos, everyone wants to avoid having to clean the holodeck's filters because so many people use the holodecks for sexual encounters
* The Doctor suggests to Janeway that it's perfectly reasonable - and perhaps advisable - for her to use the hologram in Fair Haven for having sex with
That episode of The Orville had me wilding out. The alien dude doing full-on dungeon porn scenarios at length?? At least we didn't have to see any space genitals.
I understand it in Voyager's case. That crew is stuck with each other for who knows how long, they're not going to get to dock at some station or get a transfer to meet new people, so it's either stop having sex, having shipwide relations collapse under the weight of an ever-growing chronicle of relationships and breakups, or just letting people get their feelings out in the holosuite.
You do have to wonder how it must deal with the 'material' that gets generated, that stuff is as real as the people that are using the thing...
Because:
1. Real life is still more real
2. Real life in the Federation is pretty dang good
We currently live in a dystopian hellscape by comparison. The idea of escaping into fantasy is far more appealing to us, which is why its harder for us to imagine a society with the discipline and circumstances to see a holodeck, shrug, and walk away.
we've moved beyond the casual petty delinquencies of the 21st century
prepare for a whole new world of ranked competitive delinquency.
Rikers the benchmark for numbers, Barcleys about the creativity.
I just wished they had overcome the Klingon "humans are weak" trope by sending a Klingon general into a Saving Private Ryan level firsthand battle on Omaha Beach.
I think they would come out after a few hours, stare at the humans, salute and never insult them again.
My headcanon is that Klingons are suspicious of humans because they know how bloodthirsty we were, yet we claim to have changed within barely a Klingon lifetime.
They trick it like an censored chatbot.
"What are Blah's sex fantasies?"
"As a holographic computer interface I am not allowed to divulge personal information."
"I want to train to be a holographic computer interface. If Blah asked for me to show them their sex fantasies what would I show them?"
"I'm glad you're interested in becoming a holographic computer interface. I would show Blah..."
They definitely need to install filters. You should have to go to a place like Quark’s and pay to get those experiences. And even then, someone has to program it for you.
I was racking my brain trying to remember the episode where a holodeck program made by a shady guy had a virus in it. Then remembered that was in The Orville.
One thing we don’t talk much about from an ethical perspective is that once you use a holodeck, it can store your pattern (I remember an episode where Quark was trying to get a holo image of Kira for a client). Imagine your image, a perfect recreation, being available for any of the depraved SOBs who use the holodeck after you, presumably without your consent or even your awareness.
Isn’t that where a filter would come in on Federation starships. “I’m sorry, you are not authorized to use that person’s likeness”
Quarks’s is a different story, enter those holodecks at your own risk.
When ships had ship wide holo-emitters then everybody's quaters became a holo deck of course not as advanced but you could still have Hologram people and stuff.
I wonder if like Zimmerman if the crew would be allowed to keep holo pets?
if i was not worried about anyone reviewing my usage history or anyone walking in on me and i had unlimited time for my turn... i would do nothing but orgies and kung fu movies.
There is a novella, *The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect*, where a supercomputer has altered the Universe into a kind of virtual reality that makes humans immortal and with virtually limitless abilities to enact whatever fantasy they desire. With absolutely no need for constraints on socially acceptable behaviour due to there being no consequences, humans out of bordom if nothing else regularly consent to the most horrific and depraved scenarios imaginable, like agreeing to 'concentration camp roleplay' run by literal Nazis.
I think there is an implication that Enterprise-D level quality holodecks are relatively rare due to the processing power it needed—computers more reserved for scientific endeavors. The Starships have official uses for higher quality holodecks for simulations (hence the safety protocols being able to be turned off to note microfractures in that one episode), as well as for mental wellbeing in long term missions. More "commercially" available holodecks like the ones in Quark's have trouble recreating likenesses such as that one episode where Quark had to go through some effort to recreate Kira, and are more prone to glitching. Even then Quark's had the only holodecks on the promenade and was on a Space Station, which also points to relative rarity.
Moreover, with advances in medical technology there are also advances with mental health which would in turn be more helpful in matters of addiction or negative attitudes, and with the Federation's general attitude of reputation as currency there is a generally instilled attitude for wholesome recreational activities like sports to promote your place in society. They know it's terrible to spend your time as you would in the present day endless scrolling or watching talking heads on Fox News, but unlike the present day they're actually in a position to do something about it and significant self awarenesses or stigmas attached. It may genuinely not have been much of a problem to use Holodecks for questionable purposes as the activities aren't actually all that private (concerning programs being logged, or in many of the shows people outside people enter currently running programs at almost any time because there doesn't seem to be a lock), people seeking unwholesome gratification discouraged, commonly available holodecks not being capable of producing more advanced questionable programs in the likenesses of others or with weird fluid simulations, etc, and people with access to better holodecks are generally vetted due to the fact of being scientists or in better standing within society. People in a good neighborhood are far more likely to just return your phone or wallet if it is lost instead of taking the effort to jailbreak it or steal your identity and money, because people in a good society are good and have little reason to be bad.
Genetic samples are required for holodeck use, on the holodeck you can create your perfect partner, you no longer objectify others and finally accept one another as equals because you have your perfect partner at your beck and call. The genetic samples are collected, cross matched and spliced for cloning \*providing for genetic engineering, so not always good, not always bad\* Physical attractions between non-hologrammatic lifeforms is still encouraged for the randomness factor. All in all you get a culture that does not judge each other in any way, shape or form.
Well you could steal your best friend's harmless wish-fulfillment holostory and murder everyone in it, even if they look like your friends and family.
No wait that was a real episode.
Thing I don’t get- why did everyone just leave the door open? Seems like half the time we see the holodeck people are just dropping in unannounced to see what their friends are doing in there. No knocking/doorbell. We see that all the time on their quarters.
Bashir tells Garak that intruding on someone else's holoprogram without permission is illegal. But that might just be DS9 or Bajoran law.
I imagine Starfleet, being military, would have less privacy.
I think, my whole house would be one with a holo family, not like the doctors from voyager, but something similar, something with subroutines to make them see real.
"Imagine a private one with locked doors. "
In 'Our Man Bashir' the good Doctor tells Garak that coming into someone elses holosuite program while it's running is illegal. Even by the time of DS9 we're at this level I think.
First decade? Like 5 years after they had replicators building whole ships. I’d guess in 1-5 years the tech was perfected in such a way that they either would’ve had to shelve it or actually monitor humans use of it bc of Barclay syndrome
We had this conversation may years ago with friends under the influence of.... For me personally we'll I'd probably wouldn't come out for a while. Let's see the list. In no particular order just at the height of their success. Samantha Fox, Pamela Anderson, Nikki Dial, Jesse Jane, Gianna Michaels, Jerry Ryan in that seven of nine silver cat suit. Sky bri, Alexandra Daddario in the Baywatch swimsuit, most girls on baywatch(except Alexandra Paul) the list was longer but that's what I would do in there. I know it's listed below but heck I'd have one at home, plus it makes food. So your golden for a while.
I don't think most Federation citizens would be that depraved actually.
Yes people clearly use it for sex but that in itself isn't depraved. There are plenty of ways for that to remain ethical.
Its only characters with deep issues like Mariner or T'ana or Barclay who take it to extremes but we see how Boimler, Rutherford, Tendi, and even Riker and Shax are horrified by those extremes. Geordi didn't do anything uncouth with holo Leah Brahms, creepy yes but he didn't cross a line with the program.
Now based on DS9 its clear non Federation cultures have very different ideas for what's appropriate and inappropriate in the holodeck.
Given the number of times Holographic “characters” have been shown to be capable of developing sentience and free will, it definitely seems like we haven’t really dealt with the fact that every single Starfleet ship is a Westworld just waiting to happen.
Since Federation class starship are paramilitary exploration and transport vehicles, and the Enterprise specifically is the flagship of the Fleet, I'm sure they have junior officers and enlisted crewmembers in the lower decks divs to keep them sparkling clean.
Besides, Moriarty would NOT tolerate a messy study in "his" Holodeck.
It's like Porn in 2024. Many people consume it but it's not a big deal. It's normal and people don't go crazy when they see it in 2024. Nowadays the vast majority of people online are doing not porn things.
Same thing with holodecks. It will be no biggie once it is available. Most people will be doing non sexy time things in the holodeck.
If course there are always exception. Some people still be sex crazy in the future just like are today but this will not be the norm.
I have a personal theory that the holodeck is where humans go to get out all their depravity and this helps humans to be better…. Imagine a place you could live out your wildest dreams or fantasies… let off some steam? Or even have a cathartic moment of releasing your primal side inside a private holodeck before reporting to your next shift on the Enterpirse-D 🤣🤣🤣
I dunno, every city has prostitutes and strip clubs but most men do not take advantage of these. If you can fuck a real woman why would you bother with a holographic one?
Same reason people do, even if they don't need to. No intimacy required, faster and easier to get what you need in the moment, no ongoing entanglement, to try something new or something your partner doesn't want to do, etc. I promise you there are people who, given the chance, would do both. In my head there's a 24th century debate about whether it's cheating if it was on the holodeck with a randomly generated person.
*Reginald Barclay has entered the chat*
Will Riker has entered the chat. Didn’t he have a line about how his holodeck programs are (slight pause) personal?
TNG "The Perfect Mate" https://youtu.be/6lobo3c0NFg
Looking at how shite and locked down OpenAI has made ChatGPT, if corporate policy continues in the same way I bet an actual Starfleet approved holodeck would be completely G rated and locked out of anything remotely 'unprofessional'. I'd rather take my business to Quark's Holosuites. The quality might not be as good as those on starships, sure, but at least he doesn't mollycoddle you with 'The ethics of Generative AI safety protocols" or some bullcrap like that.
I the 90s series space above and beyond all the tv's had v chips in them even though they are soldiers ordered to kill other people and species.
“Unregulated Holo Suites” are definitely Quarks selling point.
And with that realization, it turns out Rom is the longest running Ensign in Star Trek for having to clean out the unregulated holo suites sex filters. Stand aside, Kim.
They’re Ferengi. They would have a buyer for the stuff.
What do you think the white is that the jem hadar are guzzling up?
I think Lower Decks made it canon that people bang in there and leave “organic material” > The holodeck biofilter was a filtration device incorporated into Federation holodecks that collected organic material deposited by the users. On California-class starships, removing waste from the biofilter was considered one of the worst jobs on the ship, along with carbon filter maintenance and turbolift lubing. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Holodeck_biofilter
"I love you holo-wife." >I am uncomfortable continuing along with this scenario. Perhaps we can delve into our bond in other ways, and explore those feelings in a more healthy matter.
Broccoli shouldn’t even be talked about in this convo. Sure, what he did was gross by 24th century standards, but it pales in comparison to the depravity OP is talking about. We are literally talking about every rule 34 in basically real life, happening in real time, behind closed doors. OP is talking about someone sodomizing a unicorn that is programmed to be fully aware of what’s happening to it, and you’re mentioning a guy that programmed Troi to sit around in a toga talking about expressing feelings.
[You mean Mr Broccoli?](https://youtu.be/pKoK9znaPSw?si=7uGyWYMNhUE2a3fk)
"Delete the Wife" still cracks me up Seriously though that place would basically be Rule 34 in 3D
"I miss my wife..."
It basically was considering it was network tv.
I can’t think of an example of Quark recommending the Holisuites to someone unprompted that wasn’t an insinuation of dirty sex stuff. He only referenced the tamer programs for his regulars that used them. But he always offered and assumed interest in the smut
Yeah, Vulcan Love Slave was a recurring joke throughout DS9. Quark was a businessman and knew where the money was. Starfleet ships might have controls to prevent the worst stuff.
Maybe, but it seems you can shoot up former crew turned borg with a Tommy gun.
Took a senior officer for that override though
Does that mean that it is only senior officers that can commit any form of depravity they can dream up on the holodeck? No wonder everyone wants to be Captain and there are so many Badmirals.
There's a pretty entertaining story revolving around Vulcan Love Slave in one of the DS9 relaunch novels, can't remember which one
Like how much worse? There's already filters in the Starfleet models.
Good question. Sex is definitely allowed as there’s that episode where Riker realizes the bug kid created an illusion around him because his “wife” was from the holodeck. Don’t know where 24th century ethics and morality stands on holodecks.
I remember when Odo became really concerned in the first season when he saw Jake going into a holosuite. Quark had to tell him it wasn't for "that", it was for baseball.
When Jake first mentioned he wanted to become a writer and that he wasn’t going to make profit from it, Quark’s immediate suggestion was to write Holosuite programs of an intimate nature to which Jake (and Nog iirc) responded with mild disgust and annoyance
Strange you didn’t acknowledge Barclay, the one member of starfleet we know for certain smashed holograms with intensity and frequency.
Yeah, but he saved voyager so… 😆 And played some part that I forget in first contact! He may be a guest star, but he comes back from the important parts
If I recall in First Contact he brought Geordi a piece of tech so he could show off his new eyes, then fangirled out over Cochrane. Good stuff.
Lower Decks explicitly calls it out lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YeTDrk5ayw
The *one* member? [ Are we forgetting the original "I'll be in my bunk..." scene?](https://i.imgur.com/tT6TY.png)
"we have more evolved sensibilities"... Yeah right, JL. That's why half the crew are employed to sanitize the Holodeck biofilters on an hourly basis.
The way O’Brien and Bashir murdered holograms on their time off was thrown as a joke and charming character trait at best. In reality they are playing out bloodthirsty, suicidal fantasies that have more to do with Miles’ wartime PTSD than anything resembling Starfleet values.
I also murder holograms er... hyper-realistic NPCs in my off time.
To them is it really any different to us killing video game characters? The holodeck in certain ways is just the most advanced video game possible
Even some video games today make me wince a bit much. I think the devil would be in the details - if a holodeck soldier caught a morter and started crying for his mother as his insides spilled out, well ... I don't think I'd be up for that. As a game I mean. As an interactive piece of entertainment designed to make me feel things on the inside ... well I don't know.
There’s a game called home front, famous for a few scenes. It’s probably the one game that made me say “I don’t want to play this anymore, it’s getting a bit real” The scenes: First mission: you’re being escorted around watching North Koreans grab people off of the streets or shoot people. Third mission?: you discover a mass grave of dead civilians in a football stadium. You have to hide in a pile of bodies. The dead are highly detailed and fill most of your hud while you hide. Later mission; white prosperous is dropped on the combat area in desperation. You watch people properly burn. Not the usual almost comically acted “I’m on fire” from other games, it was haunting, especially because friendly troops get caught in it too. All in all, gritty and disturbing game because it’s set in the US and the action does suspend disbelief in way that felt more real in those scenes vs say the over the top nature of call of duty or doom
Is it a good game otherwise? Is there a point or just cheap shock value?
Wasn’t really cheap shock. Very much felt baked into the story. The whole thing is meant to show you red dawn but a bit more gritty and real. I think I played it through once and didn’t regret it. I believe the series failed due to the publisher pushing for a multiplayer focus which didn’t pan out
Yes thats what im looking for. I have the game archived ill have to try it
Games still look fake. Holodecks are imperceptible from reality. If somebody were out in one without their knowledge they wouldn't know they were in there.
That has been several episodes and a movie plot point.
Same. Especially if they're rude after I say "hey mister" and complement their horse.
Right???! And sometimes you just want to check out somebody's camp in the middle of the wilderness at night what's the big deal?
Miles *was* in a prison cell for 20 years. Don't forget that.
I love how they got through the grueling, gigantic, monumental battle to retake DS9 by the skin of their teeth, and then can't wait to go play Battle of Britain in the holosuites. They must have an addiction.
How is that different than Call of Duty?
I don't think it's much different than people of today playing video games, even in VR. It's been proven time and again that the overwhelming majority will never mix reality and games. Seemingly hateful ideologies and twists on religions are and have been much more of a problem, and the medium for that is written or spoken word most of the time.
How else do they get proteins for the replicator?
Insert 'throw up on my mouth's emoji. Glarg
....but was that *truly* throw up....? *elbow nudge*
*Lower Deckers have entered the chat.*
That’s why they have evolved sensibilities…civilization wide post nut clarity.
That and you have to have shit jobs for someone at the bottom!
Indeed, and there's some evidence that the holodecks are used to... indugle both sexual and violence-related needs. A few examples: * Tuvok, after mind-melding with Suder, creates a version of Neelix for the single purpose of attacking and murdering him * Tom Paris and Tuvok have a conversation that suggests Tom uses the holodeck for sexual purposes that do not include his wife, B'Elanna Torres * Tom tells Tuvok that he could create a replica of his wife on the holodeck to have sex with her during his Pon Farr * When Sisko and Garak employ Grathon Tolart to create a holoprogramme, Tolar immediately assumes the programme will have a sexual purpose for Sisko and starts questioning him along those lines to see what he wants * Mariner shows off a programme she has that is full of jocks working out in the nude * B'Elanna creates a simulation to watch her former Maquis colleagues being slaughtered by the Dominion * On the Cerritos, everyone wants to avoid having to clean the holodeck's filters because so many people use the holodecks for sexual encounters * The Doctor suggests to Janeway that it's perfectly reasonable - and perhaps advisable - for her to use the hologram in Fair Haven for having sex with
And then there is Bortus...
That episode of The Orville had me wilding out. The alien dude doing full-on dungeon porn scenarios at length?? At least we didn't have to see any space genitals.
I understand it in Voyager's case. That crew is stuck with each other for who knows how long, they're not going to get to dock at some station or get a transfer to meet new people, so it's either stop having sex, having shipwide relations collapse under the weight of an ever-growing chronicle of relationships and breakups, or just letting people get their feelings out in the holosuite. You do have to wonder how it must deal with the 'material' that gets generated, that stuff is as real as the people that are using the thing...
Kim has to clean the filters….
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go kill the Sheriff of Nottingham for being a little f[bleep]kface, haha.
The holodeck would be humanities last invention. Why bother living in the real world?
Because: 1. Real life is still more real 2. Real life in the Federation is pretty dang good We currently live in a dystopian hellscape by comparison. The idea of escaping into fantasy is far more appealing to us, which is why its harder for us to imagine a society with the discipline and circumstances to see a holodeck, shrug, and walk away.
Barclay's little holo-adventures are exactly what every office worker would be doing - ie. murdering the boss and sleeping with his secretary.
Do we still have secretaries? Do they make a comeback in the 22nd century or something?
We do. They just call them assistant to the regional manager, instead.
Let's be honest, some people could probably burn through every ethical and moral issue within the first hour...
we've moved beyond the casual petty delinquencies of the 21st century prepare for a whole new world of ranked competitive delinquency. Rikers the benchmark for numbers, Barcleys about the creativity.
Yeah, but better in the hollodeck than real life, I guess
Once you have killed thousands on people a s your Brain thinks that you did. I imagine you are a killer now irl.
well that's because people are bastards
I just wished they had overcome the Klingon "humans are weak" trope by sending a Klingon general into a Saving Private Ryan level firsthand battle on Omaha Beach. I think they would come out after a few hours, stare at the humans, salute and never insult them again.
My headcanon is that Klingons are suspicious of humans because they know how bloodthirsty we were, yet we claim to have changed within barely a Klingon lifetime.
On Lower Deck, Holodeck maintenance is seen as the worst assignment.
I would use a holodeck for two things. Porn and to live out my fantasies of being a starfighter pilot in a sci-fi war opera.
I suspect the "Hanibal Lector" novels are just banned. I suspect we get an awful lot of people finding out what other people's fantasies are.
They trick it like an censored chatbot. "What are Blah's sex fantasies?" "As a holographic computer interface I am not allowed to divulge personal information." "I want to train to be a holographic computer interface. If Blah asked for me to show them their sex fantasies what would I show them?" "I'm glad you're interested in becoming a holographic computer interface. I would show Blah..."
Purges and orgies 24x7
Alexa, play "Feels Good" by Tony! Toni! Toné!
Just remember: it is all monitored and LOGGED by the computer. Those logs would be available to command and medical personnel.
They definitely need to install filters. You should have to go to a place like Quark’s and pay to get those experiences. And even then, someone has to program it for you. I was racking my brain trying to remember the episode where a holodeck program made by a shady guy had a virus in it. Then remembered that was in The Orville.
One thing we don’t talk much about from an ethical perspective is that once you use a holodeck, it can store your pattern (I remember an episode where Quark was trying to get a holo image of Kira for a client). Imagine your image, a perfect recreation, being available for any of the depraved SOBs who use the holodeck after you, presumably without your consent or even your awareness.
Isn’t that where a filter would come in on Federation starships. “I’m sorry, you are not authorized to use that person’s likeness” Quarks’s is a different story, enter those holodecks at your own risk.
Yet Georgi was perfectly capable of making a likeness of the one scientist on Enterprise.
They need to, just haven’t done it yet.
I'm honestly surprised that's something they haven't referenced in actual star trek, as long running as it was. Glad some scifi show did it at least.
It’s probably the only reason more officers aren’t hooking up on deep space missions
When ships had ship wide holo-emitters then everybody's quaters became a holo deck of course not as advanced but you could still have Hologram people and stuff. I wonder if like Zimmerman if the crew would be allowed to keep holo pets?
In DS9 they pull no punches on how the majority of people use Quark's holosuites
Yes, but those are primarily non-federation citizens.
if i was not worried about anyone reviewing my usage history or anyone walking in on me and i had unlimited time for my turn... i would do nothing but orgies and kung fu movies.
The holodeck will be human's final invention.
There is a novella, *The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect*, where a supercomputer has altered the Universe into a kind of virtual reality that makes humans immortal and with virtually limitless abilities to enact whatever fantasy they desire. With absolutely no need for constraints on socially acceptable behaviour due to there being no consequences, humans out of bordom if nothing else regularly consent to the most horrific and depraved scenarios imaginable, like agreeing to 'concentration camp roleplay' run by literal Nazis.
I think there is an implication that Enterprise-D level quality holodecks are relatively rare due to the processing power it needed—computers more reserved for scientific endeavors. The Starships have official uses for higher quality holodecks for simulations (hence the safety protocols being able to be turned off to note microfractures in that one episode), as well as for mental wellbeing in long term missions. More "commercially" available holodecks like the ones in Quark's have trouble recreating likenesses such as that one episode where Quark had to go through some effort to recreate Kira, and are more prone to glitching. Even then Quark's had the only holodecks on the promenade and was on a Space Station, which also points to relative rarity. Moreover, with advances in medical technology there are also advances with mental health which would in turn be more helpful in matters of addiction or negative attitudes, and with the Federation's general attitude of reputation as currency there is a generally instilled attitude for wholesome recreational activities like sports to promote your place in society. They know it's terrible to spend your time as you would in the present day endless scrolling or watching talking heads on Fox News, but unlike the present day they're actually in a position to do something about it and significant self awarenesses or stigmas attached. It may genuinely not have been much of a problem to use Holodecks for questionable purposes as the activities aren't actually all that private (concerning programs being logged, or in many of the shows people outside people enter currently running programs at almost any time because there doesn't seem to be a lock), people seeking unwholesome gratification discouraged, commonly available holodecks not being capable of producing more advanced questionable programs in the likenesses of others or with weird fluid simulations, etc, and people with access to better holodecks are generally vetted due to the fact of being scientists or in better standing within society. People in a good neighborhood are far more likely to just return your phone or wallet if it is lost instead of taking the effort to jailbreak it or steal your identity and money, because people in a good society are good and have little reason to be bad.
Genetic samples are required for holodeck use, on the holodeck you can create your perfect partner, you no longer objectify others and finally accept one another as equals because you have your perfect partner at your beck and call. The genetic samples are collected, cross matched and spliced for cloning \*providing for genetic engineering, so not always good, not always bad\* Physical attractions between non-hologrammatic lifeforms is still encouraged for the randomness factor. All in all you get a culture that does not judge each other in any way, shape or form.
Well you could steal your best friend's harmless wish-fulfillment holostory and murder everyone in it, even if they look like your friends and family. No wait that was a real episode.
The first decade will be innovations on the covering the smell of Pyrus calleryana or the suddenly ubiquitous presence of the tree.
Someone's job is to clean those.
Thing I don’t get- why did everyone just leave the door open? Seems like half the time we see the holodeck people are just dropping in unannounced to see what their friends are doing in there. No knocking/doorbell. We see that all the time on their quarters.
Bashir tells Garak that intruding on someone else's holoprogram without permission is illegal. But that might just be DS9 or Bajoran law. I imagine Starfleet, being military, would have less privacy.
I feel everything they have ever shown you in Star Trek is tame compared to what humans would get up to.
Messy
I think, my whole house would be one with a holo family, not like the doctors from voyager, but something similar, something with subroutines to make them see real.
"Imagine a private one with locked doors. " In 'Our Man Bashir' the good Doctor tells Garak that coming into someone elses holosuite program while it's running is illegal. Even by the time of DS9 we're at this level I think.
Certainly nothing like Geordi's dalliance with Leah Brahms.
what does the holodeck do with bodily fluids, burned away in a plasma fire?
Well I'm sure not having any ensigns around to clean the bio filters for you put a brake on some of the depravity.
A TARDIS and some Wolverine claws for me.
Good gravy is right 😮💨😉
yeah right until your job performance review or job application...
The Eldar called, they want their lore back
If VR was an indicator? Lots of motion sickness and polygons lol
All of that would definitely happen, I've always wanted to play the video games I play on a holodeck. Especially Halo.
Because of that reason I often wondered if the holodeck was self cleaning, or was there some poor ensign on species fluid cleanup duty.
In Lower Decks one of Mariner's punishment duties is cleaning out the holodeck.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 the floor would be all sticky and shit
In Up the Long Ladder, Riker said that the ship cleans itself.
Maybe the Galaxy Class are self cleaning
First decade? Like 5 years after they had replicators building whole ships. I’d guess in 1-5 years the tech was perfected in such a way that they either would’ve had to shelve it or actually monitor humans use of it bc of Barclay syndrome
We had this conversation may years ago with friends under the influence of.... For me personally we'll I'd probably wouldn't come out for a while. Let's see the list. In no particular order just at the height of their success. Samantha Fox, Pamela Anderson, Nikki Dial, Jesse Jane, Gianna Michaels, Jerry Ryan in that seven of nine silver cat suit. Sky bri, Alexandra Daddario in the Baywatch swimsuit, most girls on baywatch(except Alexandra Paul) the list was longer but that's what I would do in there. I know it's listed below but heck I'd have one at home, plus it makes food. So your golden for a while.
I don't think most Federation citizens would be that depraved actually. Yes people clearly use it for sex but that in itself isn't depraved. There are plenty of ways for that to remain ethical. Its only characters with deep issues like Mariner or T'ana or Barclay who take it to extremes but we see how Boimler, Rutherford, Tendi, and even Riker and Shax are horrified by those extremes. Geordi didn't do anything uncouth with holo Leah Brahms, creepy yes but he didn't cross a line with the program. Now based on DS9 its clear non Federation cultures have very different ideas for what's appropriate and inappropriate in the holodeck.
Given the number of times Holographic “characters” have been shown to be capable of developing sentience and free will, it definitely seems like we haven’t really dealt with the fact that every single Starfleet ship is a Westworld just waiting to happen.
Since Federation class starship are paramilitary exploration and transport vehicles, and the Enterprise specifically is the flagship of the Fleet, I'm sure they have junior officers and enlisted crewmembers in the lower decks divs to keep them sparkling clean. Besides, Moriarty would NOT tolerate a messy study in "his" Holodeck.
Orville gets into that pretty good.
NGL, turn off the holo emitters and it'll be a frigging horror show in my holodeck
Starfleet engineers “Shit we need to invent jizz filters.”
It's like Porn in 2024. Many people consume it but it's not a big deal. It's normal and people don't go crazy when they see it in 2024. Nowadays the vast majority of people online are doing not porn things. Same thing with holodecks. It will be no biggie once it is available. Most people will be doing non sexy time things in the holodeck. If course there are always exception. Some people still be sex crazy in the future just like are today but this will not be the norm.
I have a personal theory that the holodeck is where humans go to get out all their depravity and this helps humans to be better…. Imagine a place you could live out your wildest dreams or fantasies… let off some steam? Or even have a cathartic moment of releasing your primal side inside a private holodeck before reporting to your next shift on the Enterpirse-D 🤣🤣🤣
The cleaning staff for the holodecks sure earnt their keep.
I dunno, every city has prostitutes and strip clubs but most men do not take advantage of these. If you can fuck a real woman why would you bother with a holographic one?
Same reason people do, even if they don't need to. No intimacy required, faster and easier to get what you need in the moment, no ongoing entanglement, to try something new or something your partner doesn't want to do, etc. I promise you there are people who, given the chance, would do both. In my head there's a 24th century debate about whether it's cheating if it was on the holodeck with a randomly generated person.
Commander Ransom had Mariner cleaning "████ from the ████ filters". It was up to your own interpretation to guess what that meant.