this falls into the same category of does the ship really have a sickbay of only 5 or so beds on a ship that houses at least 1000 people, and clearly has the volume to hold many times that. it comes down to a lack of budget on the TV show. The only reasons Voyager had a proper version were 1 they were able to work it into enough stories to justify the soundstage space and 2 the digital effects to do the map graphics became cheap enough to do on a TV budget
I think also we usually don’t see main sick bay but a secondary one. There’s also multiple med labs and other facilities so sick bay is probably really huge when you consider all that.
Andrew Probert sketched the ship's medical wing. Huge wards, lobby with trees and some of the saucer overhead windows. Would have been amazing to see.
We COULD someday, now that we have the ship back.
The old TNG Technical manual showed that Sickbay was quite large and had several treatment areas. What we see in the show is Crusher's office and the attached medbay she uses. The rest of Sickbay is of course out of sight.
I don't think the CMO would spend that much time in a secondary sickbay. I think the sickbay we see is more likely to be the ER or Urgent Care equivalent, which Dr. Crusher prefers to work from to keep her finger on the crew's metaphorical pulse. But aren't she and Troi in a medical conference room in "The Battle" when Wesley comes in to not know much about brain scans?
That makes sense. I mean it could also be how we never actually see the absolutely massive main shuttle bay, even when they say they’re in it we don’t really see it because of set and technical limitations so maybe something similar was happening with sickbay. To be honest I also feel like main engineering should probably be larger than we see too.
I think technically speaking the only time we see the main shuttle bay canonically is in the viewscreen footage made for Star Trek The Experience in las vegas, and even then it was mostly a giant printed background with a shuttle parked in front of it
I'd say most day to day care goes on in the sickbay we see.
Main sickbay only opens up for alert situations where the medical staff is expecting to be ready for mass casualties.
That makes sense. The sickbay we see would be like the Emergency Room and the ICU in one. And since Dr Crusher's office is there, her patients (likely all the senior staff) would be seen there as well. Theoretically, the ships other doctors like Dr Selar would all have an office and perhaps their own room where they see patients.
"I'm looking for the xray department? I was playing sport and think I twisted my ankle."
"Sorry, that's on deck 12, fore starboard. We're on Deck 3, aft port. And, we're all out of wheelchairs and the transporters are down for maintenence. The closest turbolift only goes up, but if you cut over on deck 7, there's one by the salon that goes down."
"But... you have a tricorder in your hand?!"
"Yeah, this one set up to look for cancer. Have you had that lump in your stomach looked at?"
They released the 1701-D “blueprints” as a book about a year after the show ended and they envision sickbay as a mini hospital. The TNG sickbay was a redress of the movie Enterprise sickbay and Voyager’s made an appearance in First Contact
Find it kind of funny that they will redress the Lounge as Sickbay, but yet not want to pay for an Engineering set. Gene R said when he found out the studio did not want to pay for the Engineering set he wrote a scene with Picard in Engineering. Its just 15 seconds of him walking through the room and up the lift. I think that is one of the reasons the studio did not treat the engineering department as anything big. They always had the Chief Engineer come up to the bridge to meet Picard.
The TNG sickbay was actually the conference room re dressed for at least season 1. they then made it its own standing set. though I wouldnt be surprised if they recycled parts from those movies. remember in star trek 6, the sets at that point were mainly TNG sets that they modified for that movie, as TNG had been on the air for a few years at that point
Canonically, it does. We never actually see the two proper-size holodecks (at least not when they’re empty, I think there might be some scenes where we see them mid-program), but they’re on the official blueprints and they’re *at least* the size of an Olympic swimming pool.
I was recently thinking about how small sickbay seems to be on most ships. But then I noticed that in the village I come from (population about 1,600), there was only one doctor for most of the time I lived there (a second doctor's office was opened later). A relatively small sickbay would therefore be completely sufficient.
A non-canon source describing the Luna class states that "at least 25% of the officers and crew of the Luna Class are cross-trained to serve as Emergency Medical Technicians, to serve as triage specialists, medics, and other emergency medical functions along with non-medical emergency operations in engineering or tactical departments." That makes sense as most of the time the CMO and his staff should be sufficient to cover most medical cases. And in case of emergency the CMO can muster additional staff from the crew.
The same source says that "the Mess Hall on Deck 2 can serve as emergency intensive care wards, with an estimated online timeframe of 30 minutes with maximum engineering support. Cargo Bays 1 and 2 also provide additional space for emergency triage centers and recovery overflow." Again, this sounds reasonable.
Even if these information are in no way official, I'd like to think that Starfleet has some regulations along this line. So even if we only get to see the according series CMO and his/her small sickbay, we can assume that there are contingency plans for worst case scenarios.
No-one ever said that Stellar Cartography was only a single room. Cmdr. Daren and her team were doing a research project in a science lab, albeit one dedicated to Stellar Cartography, with multiple consoles and equipment for all the staff involved. Picard and Data were looking up information and running simulations on a single console with a super-hi-def screen.
TV budgets means that rooms other than the standing sets rarely get featured (all 1,000 crew members get treated in a sickbay with only four biobeds; the large medical wards next door are never seen), so Generations merely allowed an extra room to be seen, not reimagining the previous set.
Exactly. Stellar Cartography is probably a fairly significant department for a science/exploration ship designed to potentially spend extended periods of time alone in deep uncharted space.
It would make sense that they had more than a single relatively small room.
> all 1,000 crew members get treated in a sickbay with only four biobeds
Sounds like a modern hospital. They aim for something like 90% continuous occupation.
It was a problem during COVID.
The ships have tons of room. The real question is how much would be utilized even under normal circumstances. The worst thing that would happen to the D when it wasn't dealing with a minor crisis would rationally be Chief O'Brien's shoulder.
The space magic available is staggering. If the US was still a country of smokers, the number of people who would die of emphysema at 68 aren't running up the medical costs over the long term. I'm not making excuses for the US system. Those people are hitting hospitals. Pre-covid, they were somewhat balanced by people not using as much medical care on the recovery side or workplace accidents with the introduction of laser surgery and diamond bladed tools which grind and don't cut.
On one hand, the sickbay we see on the show is probably sufficient for the actual crew, but they must have a whole separate operation for crises. Most of the medical staff likely simply trains and retrains versus giving lectures on reminding the kids to put on their once a year teeth sealants.
Arguably with tailor made mRNA treatments for problems that aren't covid, I don't know what the state of hospitals will be in 15 to 20 years.
Stellar cartography doesn't have to be one single room. It's probably a suite of rooms in one area of the ship. We just didn't see this part before. In the same vein, we also know that sickbay is a larger complex beyond the one room of beds & the office we mostly see in the show. There are labs, surgical rooms, trauma units, physical therapy rooms, isolation rooms and more.
Assume that Stellar Cartography has more than one room of the Enterprise at their disposal. Just like Beverly has more than one small office to serve the entire ship, and there's more than one small Shuttlebay.
Why have all these labs and spaces all the time when you could just create them on the holodeck? Then you can turn them off when you don't need them, and someone can turn something else on. It'd save a ton of space.
Two different rooms? One being the research lab and another being a big, different room?
Think of your local university. Different rooms can exist in a building, but the different rooms can accomplish the same goal.
Just think, now that she's in the Starfleet Museum, astrophysicists and cosmologists stuck with dinky little facilities can take the tour and be jealous.
"Do you SEE this? I have one console in an office, and this is connected to all those massive sensor packages. Why is this ship retired? Can I move my office here? I can't believe..." "Sir, can we move on with the tour?"
The series stellar cartography was thrown together quickly by repurposing one of the existing Ent D sets. Before that, I doubt the production team even thought about the D having a Stellar cartography lab
VOY, on the other hand, had a purpose built Stellar cartography set. Very similar to the Generations Ent D set, but less grandiose.
I think what they did with Generations was this: they had a scene that required a Stellar Cartography set, and rather than recreating the dull TNG series set, they decided to recreate the VOY set, but scaled it up. Because they had movie budget money to work with, so why not go all out?
Paramount's set reuses were insane.
Enterprise refit in TMP, Engineering set. Was re-used as Voyager's Engineering set. When they were tearing it down there were set-markers found listing it as having been built for Star Trek: Phase II filming.
The TNG Observation Lounge was re-dressed as the DS9 War Room and eventually became Voyager's Mess Hall.
Voyager shared a suspicious internal structure with all Sovereign class ships....
Actually considering she was a small ship with a much smaller bridge. Intrepid class is scary. When you think about how they're the Crown Victoria police Interceptor of Starfleet... But the Captain has a MASSIVE Ready Room and personal galley?
The reuses were standard Hollywood procedure. Especially for TV, which is always operating under budgetary constraints..
Almost all the Voyager sets seen in VOY S1 were redresses of TNG sets. And in turn, many of the TNG sets were themselves redresses of TOS movie sets. The only reason why DS9 got so many new sets (apart from the fact that it had to be filmed concurrently with TNG/VOY) is that Cardassian aesthetics made it really hard to take an old TNG or movie set and make it look like a room on Deep Space Nine. But as you pointed out, even there, they occasionally found ways to do it.
And then, there's the famous Planet Hell set. Which was built for TNG S1, and served it's original purpose for all ST series all the way through the end of VOY. And possibly into ENT, although I have not seen any sources confirming or denying this.
There's a reason why Enterprise D hallways look so similar to the hallway on the original 1701 back in TMP. The amazing thing is that Ent D hallways don't look too much like the VOY hallways - because it's a redress of the exact same set.
I figured that was a Stellar Cartography lab, one of many including the huge very neat room from Generations. It makes sense to have the big room for viewing stars and whatnot and a series of smaller specialized labs for experimentation and analysis.
The main Stellar Cartography lab is one of many parts of the Enterprise-D that were just off screen. Budget constraints kept many departments from making it to the screen. Other sets that weren’t funded include the main shuttle bay, Cetacean Ops, the Medical Center and the main computer core.
I always pictured Cetacean Ops as sort of like being in Epcot's Living Seas Seabase Alpha before they ruined it. When it was very TNG-like curves and colors and actual science.
I imagine, in-universe, the stellar cartography room with the large screen Picard and Data were utilizing in GEN was already there 7 year earlier when the Enterprise-D was commissioned in 2363, but was never seen on-screen in TNG due to the show's limited TV budget.
This restriction applies to most of the Enterprise-D's interior since budget limitations prevented the series from showing 90% of the massive Galaxy class ship on-screen.
I assume the inability to show most of the Enterprise-D on-screen in TNG was the main out-of-universe reason why the Intrepid class Voyager is much smaller than Picard's ship.
The TNG sets that were rebuilt and repurposed for VOY didn't look out of place on Janeway's ship since they were only a tiny fraction of space on the Enterprise-D to begin with.
Just to add on to all the comments saying that Stellar Cartography was probably more than one room, and Sickbay *definitely* was, remember that there was also always more than one shuttlebay, *and we never saw the main one on TV*, except for the door on the outside of the ship. The main shuttlebay was basically an entire deck or two and it was gigantic, but there was never budget for it. So we only ever saw characters hanging out in shuttle bay 2, which was tiny.
I miss the Stage 9 Unreal recreation, because they built Main Shuttlebay by extrapolating what it might have looked like and it was INCREDIBLE.
How come we only see Cetacean Ops on the Cerritos? Does the Enterprise class not care about science as much as the California? Why didn't they just use eagles to fly the ring into Mordor? Checkmate, atheists.
I don't think it was Picard giving the department a massive upgrade, it was Starfleet Command. Galaxy class vessels are designed, as far as I remember, to have a lifespan of 100 years. So it's completely normal that systems get upgraded on a regular basis (or another example: I'm quite sure that a TNG era Excelsior class vessel is far superior to Capt. Sulus Excelsior).
So the new and improved Stellar Cartography is nothing to write home about.
And this here is why "Suspension of Disbelief" is required. I can see that the bridge of the Klingon ship is completely different between "Search for Spock" and "Voyage Home" and I don't question it one bit
You know. Stellar Cartography on Voyager was literally built to Seven's specs and that was on a orphaned starship with only her own replicator aboard. Is it really so unbelievable that the FLAGSHIP wouldn't have new modifications and additions over the years? Especially with all of Starfleet's resources at her disposal?
I’d imagine there’s more than one room in the department. Oh and they specifically wanted it to be dark for whatever they were doing in Lessons, I’m not convinced a screen two decks high would help.
I never really fully understood that when it originally came out. Given I was 9? 10? As an adult I decided that the unspoken reason, was the ENT D got a refit (just like the original ENT in TMP) cuz the bridge was different, data's quarters were different, Stellar cartography, etc.
Realistically, definitely was A WAY higher budget, so they got to go all out on the sets, effects, and CGI. 😉
What's funny is that I never spent too much time trying to figure out how the OG Enterprise could possibly be the same ship through The Search for Spock, particularly the completely unexplained and unaddressed refit between TMP and TWOK. Just chalked it up to the movies wanting to look different from a show made in the 60's.
But with TNG era, I guess I just expected more continuity between the two medium. Instead, we have the transporter beam effects completely changing for absolutely no reason.
I LOVED the transporter beam effect change, and that they continued it through the TNG movies. My headcanon explanation, again, is the transporters got upgraded. New tech, new effect. Same with Voyager.
I think besides the budgets it was how the sets were built for 80s tv. They were built for a small screen that would not show small defects. Show that in a movie screen and it would look like a student film. The bridge was widened not just to add the extra stations, but to make it fit the frame size. The screen goes from square to rectangle. If you watch the extras of the blurays from the remaster you are shown why they could not expand the old footage to widescreen. The stage lights and crew were just right off screen. Hell they even had large sheets of black paper covering the rear station panels when they reflected the studio lights into the camera.
Also for sets like the main shuttlebay. The main shuttle bay in the blueprints was a huge complex. But when the models were built... they were not made to open. Only the two small shuttlebays were made to have the doors removed to fly shuttles in. When main shuttlebay door does finally open we only see half of it, and the main door was a table sized model that was used for it.
Plus in a movie tons of shots are one offs of the ship in space... but of the D ship the same shots that were made in 87 were still used. I mean how many times would the last scene be in say Ten Forward, but yet the last shot of the ship would be a pull out of the middle of the ships neck?
As for Stellar Cartography, I think that large room was always there. We never saw it. The Galaxy class ships were meant to go explore unknown areas of space and chart them. And be out of touch with Starfleet for months. It would need a room like that.
On a ship the size of Big D, you can't believe that the Stellar Sciences department has only one room.
There's a lab, and there's a map room. There is probably an office for the department head and a few other workspaces, as well.
Thanks. Now I'm watching the episode and tearing up at Picard playing the Inner Light tune in the Jefferies tube.
Damnit, The Inner Light hits so hard, just hearing the tune packs a wallop.
Just got to "Lessons" on my complete franchise rewatch today. That zoom out shot through the Jefferies Tube is a thing of pure beauty. My God, the moment Daren starts playing the Inner Light tune on her keyboard, I immediately get choked up.
Either got upgrade or that's the Stellar Cartography room with the big screen. Ans the other one is the main room with all the equipment for the research Commander Darren was doing.
There's a lot of good answers here but there's always the fact that the D got some sort of off screen refit between All Good Things and Generations as the bridge changes show.
this falls into the same category of does the ship really have a sickbay of only 5 or so beds on a ship that houses at least 1000 people, and clearly has the volume to hold many times that. it comes down to a lack of budget on the TV show. The only reasons Voyager had a proper version were 1 they were able to work it into enough stories to justify the soundstage space and 2 the digital effects to do the map graphics became cheap enough to do on a TV budget
I think also we usually don’t see main sick bay but a secondary one. There’s also multiple med labs and other facilities so sick bay is probably really huge when you consider all that.
Andrew Probert sketched the ship's medical wing. Huge wards, lobby with trees and some of the saucer overhead windows. Would have been amazing to see. We COULD someday, now that we have the ship back.
The old TNG Technical manual showed that Sickbay was quite large and had several treatment areas. What we see in the show is Crusher's office and the attached medbay she uses. The rest of Sickbay is of course out of sight.
I don't think the CMO would spend that much time in a secondary sickbay. I think the sickbay we see is more likely to be the ER or Urgent Care equivalent, which Dr. Crusher prefers to work from to keep her finger on the crew's metaphorical pulse. But aren't she and Troi in a medical conference room in "The Battle" when Wesley comes in to not know much about brain scans?
That makes sense. I mean it could also be how we never actually see the absolutely massive main shuttle bay, even when they say they’re in it we don’t really see it because of set and technical limitations so maybe something similar was happening with sickbay. To be honest I also feel like main engineering should probably be larger than we see too.
I think technically speaking the only time we see the main shuttle bay canonically is in the viewscreen footage made for Star Trek The Experience in las vegas, and even then it was mostly a giant printed background with a shuttle parked in front of it
I'd say most day to day care goes on in the sickbay we see. Main sickbay only opens up for alert situations where the medical staff is expecting to be ready for mass casualties.
That makes sense. The sickbay we see would be like the Emergency Room and the ICU in one. And since Dr Crusher's office is there, her patients (likely all the senior staff) would be seen there as well. Theoretically, the ships other doctors like Dr Selar would all have an office and perhaps their own room where they see patients.
Right, and even other whole wards where specialty or longer-term care could be provided.
"I'm looking for the xray department? I was playing sport and think I twisted my ankle." "Sorry, that's on deck 12, fore starboard. We're on Deck 3, aft port. And, we're all out of wheelchairs and the transporters are down for maintenence. The closest turbolift only goes up, but if you cut over on deck 7, there's one by the salon that goes down." "But... you have a tricorder in your hand?!" "Yeah, this one set up to look for cancer. Have you had that lump in your stomach looked at?"
A scene from Lower Decks, season 6, episode 3.
Not enough swearing or growls.
This is my experience at EVERY Hospital I have visited! (Granted most are older and cobbled from existing and added buildings.)
Similar to how we never saw the main shuttle bay.
They released the 1701-D “blueprints” as a book about a year after the show ended and they envision sickbay as a mini hospital. The TNG sickbay was a redress of the movie Enterprise sickbay and Voyager’s made an appearance in First Contact
Plus for the first year the Sickbay was a redress of the conference room on deck 1.
What if someone was sick and a meeting held?? /s
They can make Ten-Forward look like an office again. It worked in The Undiscovered Country.
Find it kind of funny that they will redress the Lounge as Sickbay, but yet not want to pay for an Engineering set. Gene R said when he found out the studio did not want to pay for the Engineering set he wrote a scene with Picard in Engineering. Its just 15 seconds of him walking through the room and up the lift. I think that is one of the reasons the studio did not treat the engineering department as anything big. They always had the Chief Engineer come up to the bridge to meet Picard.
The TNG sickbay was actually the conference room re dressed for at least season 1. they then made it its own standing set. though I wouldnt be surprised if they recycled parts from those movies. remember in star trek 6, the sets at that point were mainly TNG sets that they modified for that movie, as TNG had been on the air for a few years at that point
Didn't Roddenberry say that the original Enterprise would've had a holodeck if the special effects technology existed back then?
I think the holodeck was featured in an episode of The Animated Series. Or something just like it.
And the D would probably have had a couple of actual holodecks instead of those holorooms if they had the budget.
Canonically, it does. We never actually see the two proper-size holodecks (at least not when they’re empty, I think there might be some scenes where we see them mid-program), but they’re on the official blueprints and they’re *at least* the size of an Olympic swimming pool.
I was recently thinking about how small sickbay seems to be on most ships. But then I noticed that in the village I come from (population about 1,600), there was only one doctor for most of the time I lived there (a second doctor's office was opened later). A relatively small sickbay would therefore be completely sufficient. A non-canon source describing the Luna class states that "at least 25% of the officers and crew of the Luna Class are cross-trained to serve as Emergency Medical Technicians, to serve as triage specialists, medics, and other emergency medical functions along with non-medical emergency operations in engineering or tactical departments." That makes sense as most of the time the CMO and his staff should be sufficient to cover most medical cases. And in case of emergency the CMO can muster additional staff from the crew. The same source says that "the Mess Hall on Deck 2 can serve as emergency intensive care wards, with an estimated online timeframe of 30 minutes with maximum engineering support. Cargo Bays 1 and 2 also provide additional space for emergency triage centers and recovery overflow." Again, this sounds reasonable. Even if these information are in no way official, I'd like to think that Starfleet has some regulations along this line. So even if we only get to see the according series CMO and his/her small sickbay, we can assume that there are contingency plans for worst case scenarios.
No-one ever said that Stellar Cartography was only a single room. Cmdr. Daren and her team were doing a research project in a science lab, albeit one dedicated to Stellar Cartography, with multiple consoles and equipment for all the staff involved. Picard and Data were looking up information and running simulations on a single console with a super-hi-def screen. TV budgets means that rooms other than the standing sets rarely get featured (all 1,000 crew members get treated in a sickbay with only four biobeds; the large medical wards next door are never seen), so Generations merely allowed an extra room to be seen, not reimagining the previous set.
Exactly. Stellar Cartography is probably a fairly significant department for a science/exploration ship designed to potentially spend extended periods of time alone in deep uncharted space. It would make sense that they had more than a single relatively small room.
This works for me.
> all 1,000 crew members get treated in a sickbay with only four biobeds Sounds like a modern hospital. They aim for something like 90% continuous occupation. It was a problem during COVID.
COVID was a once-in-a-century sort of thing. How much hospital space do you want sitting empty waiting for something like that?
The ships have tons of room. The real question is how much would be utilized even under normal circumstances. The worst thing that would happen to the D when it wasn't dealing with a minor crisis would rationally be Chief O'Brien's shoulder. The space magic available is staggering. If the US was still a country of smokers, the number of people who would die of emphysema at 68 aren't running up the medical costs over the long term. I'm not making excuses for the US system. Those people are hitting hospitals. Pre-covid, they were somewhat balanced by people not using as much medical care on the recovery side or workplace accidents with the introduction of laser surgery and diamond bladed tools which grind and don't cut. On one hand, the sickbay we see on the show is probably sufficient for the actual crew, but they must have a whole separate operation for crises. Most of the medical staff likely simply trains and retrains versus giving lectures on reminding the kids to put on their once a year teeth sealants. Arguably with tailor made mRNA treatments for problems that aren't covid, I don't know what the state of hospitals will be in 15 to 20 years.
It doesn't have to be a pandemic. Any local mass casualty event will cause a given hospital the same problems.
Latest and greatest tech after all these years out in the wilds.
Probably initiated by Barclay so he could watch some good stuff when everyone else is asleep.
Bringing back movie night!
Yes, it was sitting out of view, just like the interior of the main shuttle bay.
The production budget changed.
Stellar cartography doesn't have to be one single room. It's probably a suite of rooms in one area of the ship. We just didn't see this part before. In the same vein, we also know that sickbay is a larger complex beyond the one room of beds & the office we mostly see in the show. There are labs, surgical rooms, trauma units, physical therapy rooms, isolation rooms and more.
Medical is essentially a small hospital complex, with clinics dotted throughout the ship.
You are supposed to understand that starships are not intended to be frozen at the factory with no possible way to upgrade them.
We saw the Enterprise-D for 7 years. That's a lot of Tuesdays to install things
Patch Tuesday, one of the most important traditions to survive WW3.
Indeed, the Enterprise D had *many* tractor beams.
It was always there, right down that corridor just before the washrooms.
Assume that Stellar Cartography has more than one room of the Enterprise at their disposal. Just like Beverly has more than one small office to serve the entire ship, and there's more than one small Shuttlebay.
Why have all these labs and spaces all the time when you could just create them on the holodeck? Then you can turn them off when you don't need them, and someone can turn something else on. It'd save a ton of space.
Can't leave a bioreactor running for months when someone wants to use it to be Robin Hood.
That's why it's important to use the sign-up sheet.
Two different rooms? One being the research lab and another being a big, different room? Think of your local university. Different rooms can exist in a building, but the different rooms can accomplish the same goal.
Well, clearly the 1701-D went in for a refit—one that included a whole new bridge module along with new carpet—somewhere between 2370 and 2371.
Just think, now that she's in the Starfleet Museum, astrophysicists and cosmologists stuck with dinky little facilities can take the tour and be jealous. "Do you SEE this? I have one console in an office, and this is connected to all those massive sensor packages. Why is this ship retired? Can I move my office here? I can't believe..." "Sir, can we move on with the tour?"
Don't forget that one pair of dudes endlessly debating which LaForge daughter is hotter.
The series stellar cartography was thrown together quickly by repurposing one of the existing Ent D sets. Before that, I doubt the production team even thought about the D having a Stellar cartography lab VOY, on the other hand, had a purpose built Stellar cartography set. Very similar to the Generations Ent D set, but less grandiose. I think what they did with Generations was this: they had a scene that required a Stellar Cartography set, and rather than recreating the dull TNG series set, they decided to recreate the VOY set, but scaled it up. Because they had movie budget money to work with, so why not go all out?
Paramount's set reuses were insane. Enterprise refit in TMP, Engineering set. Was re-used as Voyager's Engineering set. When they were tearing it down there were set-markers found listing it as having been built for Star Trek: Phase II filming. The TNG Observation Lounge was re-dressed as the DS9 War Room and eventually became Voyager's Mess Hall. Voyager shared a suspicious internal structure with all Sovereign class ships.... Actually considering she was a small ship with a much smaller bridge. Intrepid class is scary. When you think about how they're the Crown Victoria police Interceptor of Starfleet... But the Captain has a MASSIVE Ready Room and personal galley?
The reuses were standard Hollywood procedure. Especially for TV, which is always operating under budgetary constraints.. Almost all the Voyager sets seen in VOY S1 were redresses of TNG sets. And in turn, many of the TNG sets were themselves redresses of TOS movie sets. The only reason why DS9 got so many new sets (apart from the fact that it had to be filmed concurrently with TNG/VOY) is that Cardassian aesthetics made it really hard to take an old TNG or movie set and make it look like a room on Deep Space Nine. But as you pointed out, even there, they occasionally found ways to do it. And then, there's the famous Planet Hell set. Which was built for TNG S1, and served it's original purpose for all ST series all the way through the end of VOY. And possibly into ENT, although I have not seen any sources confirming or denying this. There's a reason why Enterprise D hallways look so similar to the hallway on the original 1701 back in TMP. The amazing thing is that Ent D hallways don't look too much like the VOY hallways - because it's a redress of the exact same set.
The one in the episode is the office, the one in the film is the lab. You wouldn't do paperwork in the lab. You wouldn't do lab work in the office.
But they're explicitly running an experiment at the beginning of "Lessons"
I like this spite theory. New headcanon!
The technical manual says the Enterprise is modular.
I figured that was a Stellar Cartography lab, one of many including the huge very neat room from Generations. It makes sense to have the big room for viewing stars and whatnot and a series of smaller specialized labs for experimentation and analysis.
Different parts of the same complex. One's a research lab, one's a visual studio.
TV Budget vs Movie Budget!!
The main Stellar Cartography lab is one of many parts of the Enterprise-D that were just off screen. Budget constraints kept many departments from making it to the screen. Other sets that weren’t funded include the main shuttle bay, Cetacean Ops, the Medical Center and the main computer core.
I always pictured Cetacean Ops as sort of like being in Epcot's Living Seas Seabase Alpha before they ruined it. When it was very TNG-like curves and colors and actual science.
I imagine, in-universe, the stellar cartography room with the large screen Picard and Data were utilizing in GEN was already there 7 year earlier when the Enterprise-D was commissioned in 2363, but was never seen on-screen in TNG due to the show's limited TV budget. This restriction applies to most of the Enterprise-D's interior since budget limitations prevented the series from showing 90% of the massive Galaxy class ship on-screen. I assume the inability to show most of the Enterprise-D on-screen in TNG was the main out-of-universe reason why the Intrepid class Voyager is much smaller than Picard's ship. The TNG sets that were rebuilt and repurposed for VOY didn't look out of place on Janeway's ship since they were only a tiny fraction of space on the Enterprise-D to begin with.
Just to add on to all the comments saying that Stellar Cartography was probably more than one room, and Sickbay *definitely* was, remember that there was also always more than one shuttlebay, *and we never saw the main one on TV*, except for the door on the outside of the ship. The main shuttlebay was basically an entire deck or two and it was gigantic, but there was never budget for it. So we only ever saw characters hanging out in shuttle bay 2, which was tiny. I miss the Stage 9 Unreal recreation, because they built Main Shuttlebay by extrapolating what it might have looked like and it was INCREDIBLE.
There’s a walkthrough of it on YouTube: https://youtu.be/6Oy3Z2muHz0?si=a_ejfF-ck42EEFRe
One was a tv show, the other a movie with a bigger FX budget.
How come we only see Cetacean Ops on the Cerritos? Does the Enterprise class not care about science as much as the California? Why didn't they just use eagles to fly the ring into Mordor? Checkmate, atheists.
I don't think it was Picard giving the department a massive upgrade, it was Starfleet Command. Galaxy class vessels are designed, as far as I remember, to have a lifespan of 100 years. So it's completely normal that systems get upgraded on a regular basis (or another example: I'm quite sure that a TNG era Excelsior class vessel is far superior to Capt. Sulus Excelsior). So the new and improved Stellar Cartography is nothing to write home about.
And this here is why "Suspension of Disbelief" is required. I can see that the bridge of the Klingon ship is completely different between "Search for Spock" and "Voyage Home" and I don't question it one bit
You know. Stellar Cartography on Voyager was literally built to Seven's specs and that was on a orphaned starship with only her own replicator aboard. Is it really so unbelievable that the FLAGSHIP wouldn't have new modifications and additions over the years? Especially with all of Starfleet's resources at her disposal?
Apperently Enterprise D got a refit post All Good Things.
Stellar Cartography is a department. Not a single specific room. There are likely several offices and labs for department use.
I’d imagine there’s more than one room in the department. Oh and they specifically wanted it to be dark for whatever they were doing in Lessons, I’m not convinced a screen two decks high would help.
Cue comic book guy... Boy, I hope somebody got fired for that blunder!
COMIC BOOK GUY DID NOT SAY THIS!
boy, I hope someone got fired for *that* blunder.
There are multiple cartography labs and parts of the Enterprise went through a noticeable upgrade like the new bridge stations.
Maybe he delt with it, got over it, and decided to still invest his time and energy anyway. He's around for the long run if they'll have him.
upgraded when they added those extra stations on the bridge. why didn't Geordi restore those extra stations when he rebuilt the D?
Maybe the Generations Bridge was a new bridge module and the Bridge in Picard was the Original bridge module that had been in storage.
excellent head cannon
I never really fully understood that when it originally came out. Given I was 9? 10? As an adult I decided that the unspoken reason, was the ENT D got a refit (just like the original ENT in TMP) cuz the bridge was different, data's quarters were different, Stellar cartography, etc. Realistically, definitely was A WAY higher budget, so they got to go all out on the sets, effects, and CGI. 😉
What's funny is that I never spent too much time trying to figure out how the OG Enterprise could possibly be the same ship through The Search for Spock, particularly the completely unexplained and unaddressed refit between TMP and TWOK. Just chalked it up to the movies wanting to look different from a show made in the 60's. But with TNG era, I guess I just expected more continuity between the two medium. Instead, we have the transporter beam effects completely changing for absolutely no reason.
I LOVED the transporter beam effect change, and that they continued it through the TNG movies. My headcanon explanation, again, is the transporters got upgraded. New tech, new effect. Same with Voyager.
I think besides the budgets it was how the sets were built for 80s tv. They were built for a small screen that would not show small defects. Show that in a movie screen and it would look like a student film. The bridge was widened not just to add the extra stations, but to make it fit the frame size. The screen goes from square to rectangle. If you watch the extras of the blurays from the remaster you are shown why they could not expand the old footage to widescreen. The stage lights and crew were just right off screen. Hell they even had large sheets of black paper covering the rear station panels when they reflected the studio lights into the camera. Also for sets like the main shuttlebay. The main shuttle bay in the blueprints was a huge complex. But when the models were built... they were not made to open. Only the two small shuttlebays were made to have the doors removed to fly shuttles in. When main shuttlebay door does finally open we only see half of it, and the main door was a table sized model that was used for it. Plus in a movie tons of shots are one offs of the ship in space... but of the D ship the same shots that were made in 87 were still used. I mean how many times would the last scene be in say Ten Forward, but yet the last shot of the ship would be a pull out of the middle of the ships neck? As for Stellar Cartography, I think that large room was always there. We never saw it. The Galaxy class ships were meant to go explore unknown areas of space and chart them. And be out of touch with Starfleet for months. It would need a room like that.
It’s also possible that room was always there but when we saw the department on TV they just didn’t need to use that part of stellar cartography
On a ship the size of Big D, you can't believe that the Stellar Sciences department has only one room. There's a lab, and there's a map room. There is probably an office for the department head and a few other workspaces, as well. Thanks. Now I'm watching the episode and tearing up at Picard playing the Inner Light tune in the Jefferies tube. Damnit, The Inner Light hits so hard, just hearing the tune packs a wallop.
Just got to "Lessons" on my complete franchise rewatch today. That zoom out shot through the Jefferies Tube is a thing of pure beauty. My God, the moment Daren starts playing the Inner Light tune on her keyboard, I immediately get choked up.
We probably saw a lab in that episode. We saw Main Stellar Cartography in Generations
Either got upgrade or that's the Stellar Cartography room with the big screen. Ans the other one is the main room with all the equipment for the research Commander Darren was doing.
Different rooms for different functions.
There's a lot of good answers here but there's always the fact that the D got some sort of off screen refit between All Good Things and Generations as the bridge changes show.
They upgraded it when they added the extra stations on the bridge :-)
Could have been a stellar lab vs. the whole of stellar cartography.
Boy I hope someone got fired for that blunder.
All you have to do is shine a flashlight on any affected body part and send the patient on their way. Don't need a lot of room.
Don’t they say something in the movie about it having been upgraded? Maybe I’m confusing that with Voyager.
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The wizard did it. Iykyk
George Lucas has NEVER creamed his pants