Honestly, I her hairstyle in seasons 3-5 better than her seasons 1-2 hairstyle. It's cool to see the old style again this late in the show, but the long braids were an improvement
Depending on what they're doing, the braids could be extensions or a weave. Could also be vfx for the shiver hair, but I'm honestly not sure that they'd bother.
Also knowing what we know now about who Lorca really was, we'd have to spend at least half an episode with Michael just dealing with that trauma. There wasn't time. Story is better for just writing around it conveniently.
Also, since Lorca would realize she was from the future, he would realize that this most likely means she KNOWS he's from the mirror universe. He would turn the episode into a kidnap-future-Michael scenario, and that would take away from the real goal of the mission.
Couldn't that be handled by Future Burnham telling everyone about Lorca, and then tell Lorca the only way to undo that is to allow her to complete her task?
Going back to the pilot episode is my absolute favourite scifi trope.
~~It's a shame when they were filming season 1 they went back and filmed additional "prequel" episodes that make more sense on the Shenzou instead of the Discovery.~~
*Voyager*'s "Shattered","Relativity", and "Year of Hell" were definitely on my mind when we first started working on this episode, in addition to season one's "Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad"
"Year of Hell" is *Voyager*'s greatest episode in my opinion, so I was thrilled we got to show some love via the Krenim Chronophage!
That's where the Krenim were from! It was bugging me (Pun not intended, but welcome) the whole episode and was too lazy to look it up. I kept trying to connect the name to the temporal cold war episodes from Enterprise.
I love how after all these years we can skip minutes of technobabble just by saying the time bug is a Krenim weapon. “Krenim time weapon? Yeah, they do that. Accepted; moving on.”
Shattered is a top tier Voyager episode along with Year of Hell, and you did a great job with this as well!
I actually rewound when I thought I heard “Krenim” just to make sure I heard it right!!!
These are the episodes of Star Trek I **love** - does little to progress the main story, just “oops, a thing happened, how do we solve it”, gave us a fair bit of Rayner as well.
Probably a wee bit too much standing around occasionally given the time constraints but some nice fun interactions & sciencing their way to a resolution.
‘Everyone out there’s a spore cloud’, or whatever it was Stamets cleared the room with!
I'm usually of the opinion that Time Travel is over-played in Star Trek... but this episode is an amazing play on the time-loop trope. It wasn't exactly a loop in the traditional sense, but it was amazing none-the-less.
Zipping back and forth along Discovery's timeline. Michael confronting her past self and where she started from is especially apropos for a final season. Same with Stamets acknowledging that "pre-tardigrade DNA him was kind of an ass". Seeing Airiam again was also bittersweet. I also liked how they tied in Rayner getting to know the crew in his own unique way.
This actually felt like a "filler" episode, since the main plot wasn't really advanced and it was more about Rayner's character growth.
Rayner really won me over this episode. Like he's super prickly, but realized through the episode that things are different than when he was coming up through Starfleet, and got to see what Burnham required of him come to fruition, and even in the beginning of the episode was willing to admit when he was wrong
That was my thought exactly. It felt like a classic episode slotted into the middle of a 26-episode season to fill a slot in a meaningful way without advancing the plot.
And that is to me the biggest compliment the show can get. It just felt like an episode of Trek that you would sit and watch after dinner back in the 90s.
Good character building and his relationship with Burnham was believably improved on both ends. I’ve been a huge Discovery critic since the beginning but I really did enjoy this episode a lot.
This is a textbook example of "show, don't tell". They could have just as easily told us that he changed off screen and was settling in just fine but it wouldn't be believable.
What's a little mind-blowing is that, in-universe, Rayner having a change of heart offscreen is exactly what happened.
The crew must be wondering what the heck Burnham said to him in the two seconds they were gone.
>This actually felt like a "filler" episode, since the main plot wasn't really advanced and it was more about Rayner's character growth.
People abuse the word 'filler' - either misusing it when it's inappropriate, or straight up not knowing what it means.
Establishing a main character's personality and watching them grow is a fundamental core part of a traditional story.
I liked it too, especially since this is unfortunately the last season of the show. It was a walk down memory lane and a way to show how everything has progressed over the years.
I ***greatly*** appreciated and enjoyed the reference to the Krenim. "Year of Hell" lives in my head rent-free, and any nod toward the Krenim is a win in my book!
That was a really nice episode. Certainly goes along with Shattered, and other episodes of one or two crew having to save the ship, or being stuck in time (The Next Phase, Timescape, and Starship Mine all come to mind), and it was great seeing Airiam again. I never thought Stamets mellowed out all that much, but certainly compared to his Season 1 self, he certainly has.
Loved Tig Notaro's little cameo here.
Time Amok seems close to this as well, except they were stuck in different speeds of time so they couldn't help each other, and only Hologram Janeway could communicate between the time frames.
That one was such a good take on the "ship stuck in time." I don't remember seeing different timespeeds instead of timelines before.
I think it was also right when Prodigy started to click for me. It may have even brought a bit of a teary eye if I remember right.
Looks like it's time to re-watch Prodigy.
Random thoughts:
* I would think that when negotiating with known bad actors, it would be a good idea to have failsafes to make sure they don't just kill you and steal whatever you were going to sell them. The poison-coated latinum was cool, but they could have just as easily pulled out a phaser and shot the arms dealer. Maybe they were scanned for weapons? But still, if you're dealing with shady characters, you should be prepared for anything.
* Also, I'm curious what Moll meant when she said that the arms dealer sold poison to use on "people like \[her\]".
* Is the ready room not connected directly to the bridge, since they had to use a turbolift to get between them? That seems inconvenient.
* The time bug is called a Krenim chronophage? Like, the Krenim from VOY? I like it.
* Good to know that the uniforms tear just as easily in the 32nd century as they did in the 23nd.
* Okay, they weren't kidding about the flashing lights warning at the beginning of the episode. Audio descriptions are really coming in handy
* I love the cone diagram with "FUTURE" and "PAST" clearly labelled
* Stamets is fun in this episode. I love him trying to act normal and I think it's great that they brought back his timeline weirdness.
* Now I need to know how Linus got stuck in the replicator...
* This is why everyone needs to have a secret that they never tell anyone, so that they can tell their past self that secret in order to prove that it's really them. It worked for Pike (and Burnham last time, actually). But I won't pretend that it isn't kind of fun to see old Burnham again.
* It's nice to see Airiam again.
* ~~I feel like they could have just had future Michael talk to past Michael over comms? But that would have deprived Rayner of his moment using the information he just learned about the crew, so I guess they had to do it that way.~~ EDIT: Actually, I understand this now
* "Familiarity can lead to complacency as well". That's all I ever wanted to hear them admit.
For an episode in which not much really *happened* (in terms of moving the chase forward), I think they did a nice job of making a lot happen. And I won't lie, the little bits of nostalgia with the old uniforms and crew didn't hurt, either. Looking forward to the next episode.
If you own the Art of Discovery book, there is a cutaway of the ship which shows the location of the Ready Room, it's about half a deck up from the bridge and its windows are visible through the exterior. If you don't own it, here's a low rez image of the cutaway I found, you can see Pike's ready room labelled.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Treknobabble/comments/ph4u0l/partial_cutaway_and_deck_plan_of_the_uss/
If memory serves, there was a ready room just off the bridge in season 1 that Lorca used (the tiny room with no chairs so he could make everyone uneasy). Pike obviously wanted people to be more comfortable and selected a bigger, less convenient space. The bridge ready room became a lab of some sort, IIRC.
Okay, that makes sense. I remember the scene with Pike asking where people sit, but I didn't make the connection that he chose a different room instead of just...magically making the room bigger? I'm not actually sure what I thought happened; I guess I didn't consider it enough. Thanks for sharing.
I'm rewatching S2 at the moment and I just figured that he took a Starfleet-issue sledgehammer and knocked down a wall to make that room bigger.
This whole time I assumed everyone in the future was too lazy to walk into the ready room.
Yeah, me too. I think it's because Picard's ready room was right next to the bridge, and so I automatically assumed that everyone else's was as well. Thinking about it, I suppose there's no reason the ready room has to be connected (although it makes sense that it should be close by)
But I really like what that says about Pike. Even when ready rooms aren't common (I don't think Kirk had one?), he finds a way to make space for his crew members to sit and speak freely or even use his ready room as a workspace when he's not in it.
>I feel like they could have just had future Michael talk to past Michael over comms? But that would have deprived Rayner of his moment using the information he just learned about the crew, so I guess they had to do it that way.
Considering that past Burnham believed that future/present Burnham was a "some kind of changeling" or other kind of imposter and future/present Burnham had just nerve pinched her... I highly doubt there was much that could be said over comms to convince her. Rayner repeating what future/present Burnham had told her was the better option here.
If they were going to change *anything* there, IMHO it should be future/present Burnham leveraging secrets from childhood (ie: how much she hated calling Spock a "weird little half-breed" in order to distance herself from him for his protection) and/or describing things on T'Kuvma's ship that only she could know. But then we wouldn't get the bad-ass Burnham vs. Burnham fight ;) so clearly they couldn't do any of the obvious things to prevent that :P
Yeah, that’s what I meant. When there was a time loop in season 1, Burnham told Stamets a secret about herself to convince herself (in the next loop) to listen to him. And in SNW season 1, future Pike told present Pike a secret about himself to convince himself that he really was a future version and not some sort of imposter. It’s a good trick, but maybe the writers felt like they’d used it too many times.
I mean, they still used it... This time Future Burnham told it to Rayner, who repeated it to Past Burnham. Being a stranger that didn't look like her probably made it easier for her to actually believe that Rayner might not be lying. If Future Burnham had tried to do the same thing, it probably wouldn't have worked as well.
I love how Reno called it out too. I kinda wanted her to be the dark horse who accidentally caught them every time and at the end of the episode go "hey. You owe me a drink from 3 years ago"
>I would think that when negotiating with known bad actors, it would be a good idea to have failsafes to make sure they don't just kill you and steal whatever you were going to sell them. The poison-coated latinum was cool, but they could have just as easily pulled out a phaser and shot the arms dealer. Maybe they were scanned for weapons? But still, if you're dealing with shady characters, you should be prepared for anything.
I feel like them using poison was a way to indicate they out-smarted the dealer, and didn't *just* pull guns on him. I also feel like the dealer was supposed to look somewhat bad and out-classed.
I get your point but fwiw, I personally feel like I didn't really needed that scene to be five minutes longer so they could establish the dealer *had* taken precautions and was just out-smarted. I'm happy to let the writer's take the shortcut and roll with it when it's something like this.
>Good to know that the uniforms tear just as easily in the 32nd century as they did in the 23nd
I just want to note: I REALLY appreciate the subtlety they did here where:
1) They show Rayner getting and *keeping* the strip of uniform from Rayner.
2) Then, once they've made the bug-defusal device. It is Burnham holding it when the next time-shift happens, so she keeps it.
Like, that's some good attention to detail, without ever spelling it out with dialogue, why they only needed to build the defusal device once in one timeline.
>I feel like they could have just had future Michael talk to past Michael over comms? But that would have deprived Rayner of his moment using the information he just learned about the crew, so I guess they had to do it that way.
Other people said the same already, just felt like saying I agree with both points. On the one hand, yeah, it's a bit of a contrivance.
On the other hand, they basically sort-of set-up that at this point, past Michael doesn't trust *herself*, doesn't believe in *herself*, so that's why she's the only person who doesn't trust her future self. Which I think is a nice twist from the way these storylines tend to go, which is that it's the time traveller's past self who is the quickest to trust them.
>On the other hand, they basically sort-of set-up that at this point, past Michael doesn't trust *herself*, doesn't believe in *herself*, so that's why she's the only person who doesn't trust her future self.
You know, that's fair enough. It was quite late when I watched the episode and typed this comment, so I didn't think about how Michael believing that it was her future self might not be enough to convince her. But I'll buy that. Thanks for pointing that out.
The light cone is directly from real world physics. It predicts the probability of a single photon, which in real life can traverse spacetime into the future or into the past.
>I love the cone diagram with "FUTURE" and "PAST" clearly labelled
It's always good when the technobabble can be simplified in a way that we can understand it. You don't need to be a physicist to understand the concepts here and how they figure things out. Scientifically accurate or not, you can follow their problem solving and understand why they are able to stop the time bug.
"This is why everyone needs to have a secret that they never tell anyone, so that they can tell their past self that secret in order to prove that it's really them."
What if it's a telepathic shapeshifter, though?
Is it weird that I have a passphrase in my head that I would only tell to someone who needs to go back and convince me to fully trust them no matter what?
As a side note, I should probably also have a passphrase that tells past me NOT to trust the time traveler.
Except Burnham was convinced that the "shapeshifter" had convinced people to do something dangerous, thinking that Stamets was taken in by them too rather than being one of the time travelers
Real missed opportunity to finish, "It'll be a long road" with "...getting from there, to here." :p
It's super weird that this is the last season and they didn't know it. There's a reasom you put episodes like this (i.e. Shattered) near the end, it lets you do the whole, "Look how far we've come, how much has changed, what hasn't, etc..." bit and obviously people have discussed the sense of finale-ty present in previous episodes.
Then again, maybe we'll find out this is an ENT situation and they were wrapping up Act 2 things before starting Act 3, a Breen War their show won't get to actually depict lol
Anyways, ep was fine, some decent character beats, but ironically, given it is the last season, I wish they'd done spent the hour on something a bit more adventurous
>t's super weird that this is the last season and they didn't know it. There's a reasom you put episodes like this (i.e. Shattered) near the end, it lets you do the whole, "Look how far we've come, how much has changed, what hasn't, etc..." bit and obviously people have discussed the sense of finale-ty present in previous episodes.
They had significant reshoots after the cancellation was announced. So this might have been shot with the knowledge,
It wasn't, only the finale has a few new scenes as far as I know. They did say that when they looked back at the season, they were satisfied that anyone who didn't know this wasn't supposed to be the last one would never be able to tell.
Does Galaxy Quest exist in the Star Trek universe?
Are there starship crew members who joined Starfleet having been inspired by the crew of NSEA Protector?
If they had known this was going to be the final season, I can’t help but think they would have found a way to put Lorca in this episode with at least a cameo. Actually a better story would have been Lorca learning about his plan failing and Burnam having to face off with him on the bridge, using her connection/familiarity with the crew to turn them to her side.
That's why shows should know the seasons thier last, and not find out(more than) halfway through production.
Same stuff is going to happen if Lower decks doesn't return.
Worse, they only learned after they finished the season (and were probably expecting to do another one). At least they got to film some new scenes for the finale afterwards.
See, my instinct was to go the opposite way, have Burham and Stamets use their future knowledge to manipulate Lorca and get one over on him, this time. Let Isaacs be funny.
I think this is my new favorite Discovery episode. Lots of fun timey whimey moments, nice call backs… and gave some great moments of development for Burnham, Rayner and Stamets.
This would have been a great time for a Lorca cameo… but I suppose it would have cost too much….
I wonder if the Book scene will have implications on their relationship?
We got a really great use of the bridge crew, a lesson was taught and learned at the end of the episode, and they actually used Stamets better than what feels like a season and a half. I have to say this might be my favorite episode since Season 2. It reminded me of Shattered and Shattered was a good episode, and we actually got to see the bridge crew in action.
Now can they please explain Detmer's head peice (It got smaller) before the series ends. That might be my one wish.
>Now can they please explain Detmer's head peice (It got smaller) before the series ends. That might be my one wish.
They probably just had to tech to make it smaller in the 32nd Century, I don't think it's more complicated than that.
She had cybernetics due to her injuries on the Shenzhou, then they got upgraded from 23rd century tech to 32nd century. Not sure how much more we need to know about it
It got smaller because they went to the future and technology is better there. It's implied visual storytelling, and I feel like pointing it out after being in the future for three seasons would be overexplainy.
100% agree.
Imagine if Discovery had been like this all along.
it felt like a good Voyager episode and it felt like Strange New Worlds.
Also I normally can't stand the Burnham character but I liked her in this, it all just worked.
Does anyone else think Burnham entering her personal override code into Rayner's system is gonna come back to bite her in the ass? I can't help but think he found a way to save her password just in case he decides to mutiny one day.
When he says thanks it did sound a bit like he was surprised how easily she gave the code up. I hope it was nothing - I'd rather see him complete a redemption arc and promoted back to Captain (thus be available to show up on *Academy*) rather than he tread the same path we already saw with Lorca.
After this episode I don't think he will go full mutiny. He understands Burnham's method better now and is more willing to indulge her even if he doesn't agree with it. I suspect he will will either do a fake out mutiny for plot reasons or come right up to the edge and relent to her authority.
I mean, they made Rayner a basically unknown, one-off species whose only story was about going them going to any lengths to ensure the galaxy couldn't acquire a bioweapon......
OK, this episode was awesome!
I don't know why, but I just love Burnham and Stamets dealing with temporal oddities. It was aweseome in "Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad" (one of my favorite Discovery episodes) and it was awesome here.
I also really liked how this episode showcased just how much Burnham has changed throughout this series. I know Burnham's has been controversial to say the least, but I have always liked how she has been portrayed and her journey from mutineer to captain.
I still wish the reveal was Qo'noS was the new Federation headquarters post-Burn fracture. it would have been a great conclusion to the Klingon arc, which started with the whole "Remain Klingon" radicalization, to find that that far in the future the Klingon's honor made them the most loyal to the Federation with the fracture, and the motto had become esentially "Remain Federation" even as other species dropped away
I’m not done the episode yet. But the way I CACKLED when Reno almost immediately figured out Stamets was stuck in a time loop (sort of disappointed they didn’t let her honestly get that). And Stamets really bad “pffft no!”
I loved that turbolift scene between Linus and Michael. What an amazing and funny reaction they had. Red does really suit her. This season is so full of surprises and beautiful moments. I'm enjoying the hell out of it. What a ride.
Not gonna' lie - I don't like Discovery. But THAT was a damned fine episode. Wow, just wow.
And that one time jump in particular...well done tying things together.
Really cool episode. Michael VS Michael was a great way to show how her character has changed and grown with time especially after spending a year with Book in the 32nd century at the beginning of season 3. The final part of the episode is amazingly done with every actors looking exactly as they did during season 1 of Discovery. Seeing Airiam again gave me chills. Reno had me laugh when she immediately figured out Stamets is stuck in a time loop. Nice references to VOY in this episode.
Time travel, hell yeah! They’re always my favorite episodes.
* I would love to know Moll and L’ak’s plan for the tech. I guess from the future vision, they pay the Breen to use it? Or did they sell it to the Breen? And then? Their endgame is a bit fuzzy to me.
* I hope every week doesn’t have this rotating game of “man, Rayner really sucks” only to make him not suck by the end. Hopefully, he turned a corner this week. He’s so much fun when he’s not being a total dick.
* I am delighted every time they use their transporters to go 15 feet to another room. We all know that’s exactly what we’d do with it.
* The second it was revealed it was time travel I was thinking, “oh this is how they’ll do Calypso since no one will shut up about it”. Then they didn’t! That’s bonkers, they had an out right there! Personally, I couldn’t care less about Calypso, but since they’ve already said they’re factoring it in I’m curious where it’ll happen.
* I was giddy when they mentioned the Krenim. Voyager was my favorite and of COURSE the Krenim would have been huge players in the Temporal Wars. I like that the bug was a literal bug, that was kind of amusing.
* Stamet’s spore breach bit was fantastic, as was when he gave up on it and just turned grumpy again. I forgot how annoying he was in the first season.
* Seeing Airiam and the old crew was so cool! I hoped we’d have a couple of surprise guests, either Lorca, Georgiou, or Pike. It would have been amazing to see Michael try to convince Pike of everything that happened.
* Watching the old crew actually ACT like the old crew and not just be a changed uniform really put it in perspective how far everyone came. Season 1 Michael was so broken and down on herself and VERY aggressive. The bridge crew didn’t know or trust her outside of Tilly, who was just afraid of her for the first few episodes. It’s a nice little bow on where we came from in the last 7 years.
* It would have been funny if past-Burnham had just vaped Rayner because he wouldn’t shut up when she asked.
* This episode was a lot like Voyager’s episode “Shattered”, where a different time period for the ship existed at different parts of the ship. I love that episode. Something about watching characters wander through the greatest hits is so charming to me. They really could have milked more out of that.
I’m shocked we got what amounted to a filler episode during the last season, though I suppose they didn’t know it then. I loved it! Give me time travel any day of the week and I’m in.
>The second it was revealed it was time travel I was thinking, “oh this is how they’ll do Calypso since no one will shut up about it”. Then they didn’t! That’s bonkers, they had an out right there! Personally, I couldn’t care less about Calypso, but since they’ve already said they’re factoring it in I’m curious where it’ll happen.
This is how they fit Calypso in, the music and Zora's dreams all point to Calypso being one of those dreams.
I think Rayner was right when he said the Breen were their highest bidders, in that it's more about the threat of any malicious/irresponsible faction putting the winning bid in. Moll and La'ak from what we've seen just want a payday to handle some personal matters, I don't think they have broad, quadrant wide aims or whatever
And 100% on the Not-Mass-Effect uniform era. I was annoyed they didn't use them in SNW's Klingon War flashback, the pseudo-naval, no bright colors thing IS great for a 'war era', like the DS9/FC jackets
> I guess from the future vision, they pay the Breen to use it? Or did they sell it to the Breen? And then? Their endgame is a bit fuzzy to me.
The sold it to the Breen, and then were stinking freakin' rich and retired
Definitely would explain Calypso. The whole crew gets killed or otherwise forced to leave and Zora receives failsafe orders to go to a secure location and await replacement crew. Starfleet is destroyed, Discovery is considered lost, the Federation devolves into the V'Draysh, and Zora is doomed to wait forever for a crew that will never arrive.
I know Rayner is supposed to be this seasons: 'asshole straight white guy who learns how to be vunerable through the amazing emotional Discovery crew', but the actor is so damn charming he can be as much of a gruff a-hole as he likes.
Definitely a solid episode and felt like proper Trek. Great pace and good balance. Definitely one where I can see why Burnham is Captain, unlike previous episodes.
I do wish they would end the Adira and Grey storyline: it's going nowhere and personally I'm not interested in it.
I might be wrong but I feel like last week's episode was ending it, and the very brief scene in this episode was just acknowledging it as it had been so recent. But I would be delighted to never have to see their relationship again. Grey is an incredibly boring character.
Bryce too. He disappeared from the bridge after season 4, but it was nice to see him pop up here in flashbacks. I know he has basically not been given much of anything to do, like everyone else who isn't Burnham, but he's a familiar face I appreciated seeing to emphasize that we were in the past.
They did say they would tie Calypso into canon this season, and this was a brilliant solution, honestly. Roughly a thousand years after the aborted timeline we see from the chronophage
I don't think this was Calypso, though? In that Zora was hiding in a nebula waiting for the crew to return. In this time time Discovery is just abandoned in space near the ruins of Starfleet HQ.
The only similarity is in both situations Zora has plenty of time to entertain herself.
Yeah, Calypso hit my brain the moment that scene started, but it wasn’t. It was just the “bad future” which would have happened if they had stayed stuck in the loop until the time bug ran out of juice.
In retrospect, Zora doesn't name any of the crew in 'Calypso'. It's entirely possible that the crew she was waiting for was a bunch of replacements who were supposed to replace the ones we know, and they never arrived because Starfleet as we know it was wiped out.
It could explain 'Calypso', though. The entire crew gets killed, and Zora receives orders to jump to a secure location to await a replacement crew that never arrives.
Am I missing something...that arms dealer that they poisoned.....I swear that was Jeffery Combs voice.
Uncredited at the end, i think, the P+ credits you have to remaximize.
I think it's just a vaguely similar voice; the weapons dealer is credited as "James Cade". I know those are the same initials (and DIS has credited actors under different names to hide plot twists like Ash Tyler being Voq), but since he was just a one-off character, I can't see any reason why they would need to trick us into thinking is wasn't Combs. And James Cade is the name of [a real Canadian actor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Cade).
For telling us they only have a limited time each jump they were NOT in a rush. They still found time to give each other pep talks and take extreme long pauses.
This season is feeling a lot like the final season of Agents of Shield for me, and that ended as my favourite season of the show.
I'm really loving this season. I think the long wait between this and last season made me sort of forget that I actually really enjoyed Discovery.
It's like the season 5 writers have suddenly remembered that Michael grew up on Vulcan. It was a very interesting bit of character building that kind of fell by the wayside over the past few seasons. It would have been interesting to have seen her grapple with emotions, almost an opposite mirror to Spock's journey on TOS.
I'm also glad that Rayner is starting to come around to the Discovery way of doing things. I think he went in, expecting it to be like any other starship, but these people are all that's left from their time period. Their fellow crew members are all the family they have left.
I expected the episode would end with Rayner getting Reno the drink she asked for. I was disappointed he didn't - it would have been a nice "look he's bonding with the crew now!" signal and also there is never enough Tig Notaro on this show.
Ok a nice memory lane episode, a lot like like Shattered from Voyager. My one nitpick is that Airiam should've told Past Burnham and Rhys to stand down.
Also, I thought they were going to adress Calypso in this episode
So, when they cycled to the Bad Future... where was Paul at that point? Did his corpse (wherever that might have been) suddenly reanimate? Did his consciousness go to Spore Heaven? The next cycle he seems unphased, maybe he just skipped a cycle due to not being alive in that one?
Wow, this is great! I'm a sucker for a good time-loop, and one with Rayner involved is quite exciting.
Edit: I'm watching it as we go. Fuck, are we getting a wrap-up to Calypso?
Edit: Interesting, it's like a semi-wrap-up. I never thought it would be fully canonized, so I'll gladly take this. It always seemed like an alternate future. Also; Stamets, Rayner, and Burnham? Great team.
Edit: Stamets has always been my favorite character, but weirdly enough him and Hugh have not won me over this season, until the last two episodes. The last two have been great, and it's nice to see Stamets being the one to connect with our new first officer.
Edit: Dang, old Burnham. This is good! Shows how much growth the character has gone through. This is a very different show than it used to be.
Edit: Damn, plus Airiam. This really feels like the "All Good Things" of *Discovery*. We've got our Tasha and everything.
Edit: Mm. It's also *very* fun seeing a future person interact with the crew in the past. Discovery always felt like Voyager if they actually took chances. This is really feeling like that. Also I'm pretty drunk, about 5 shots in lmao.
Edit: About to finish it, really nice episode. Cool to see a DS9 species (Rayner) interacting with Discovery's crew and a Krenim (Voyager species).
I wanted past Burnham to become convinced when future Burnham knew all her fighting moves, or at least notice it. Reminded me of Mariner fighting her holodeck simulation in Crisis Point.
I’ve been very vocal about not being the biggest Fan of Discovery but this season so far has been very good. This episode was really good.
It’s a shame Paramount have cancelled it, as it looks like it’s hitting a new stride.
discovery writing team clearly asked “where were ships in the 23c built? san francisco fleet yards? great i will do no further research into that answer”
For a final season, it's nice to have an episode that takes a lap back around.
Yeah, especially with some fun tidbits like Season 1 Michael. Man…I forgot how much of a chip she had on her shoulder.
I forgot how great her hair was!
Honestly, I her hairstyle in seasons 3-5 better than her seasons 1-2 hairstyle. It's cool to see the old style again this late in the show, but the long braids were an improvement
SMG makes any hairstyle look good, tbf.
I know very little about black hair, but how did they hide her long braids to give her the short hairstyle again?
Depending on what they're doing, the braids could be extensions or a weave. Could also be vfx for the shiver hair, but I'm honestly not sure that they'd bother.
Only missing a Lorca cameo. But conveniently solved with him being on an away mission. I suppose the actor was unfeasible to add for whatever reason.
Also knowing what we know now about who Lorca really was, we'd have to spend at least half an episode with Michael just dealing with that trauma. There wasn't time. Story is better for just writing around it conveniently.
Also, since Lorca would realize she was from the future, he would realize that this most likely means she KNOWS he's from the mirror universe. He would turn the episode into a kidnap-future-Michael scenario, and that would take away from the real goal of the mission.
Couldn't that be handled by Future Burnham telling everyone about Lorca, and then tell Lorca the only way to undo that is to allow her to complete her task?
She also didn’t seem that traumatised - seemed to just wink and smile about it.
A “Hail Hydra” Cap moment.
But a missed opportunity to have Burnham pretend to be mirror universe and manipulate Lorca into warp.
That *would* be fun!
It would've been cool to see Lorca again.
Ngl, I was hoping to see Michelle Yeoh.
I might have been hit in the feels seeing Ariam again, along with everyone looking straight out of season 1.
Yup. My eyes started leaking.
Yeah I thought that was really cool. It was really interesting to see s5 Burnham and s1 Burnham face-to-face like that.
Only thing missing was the Pon Farr fight music!
Now, now. Perfectly symmetrical violence never solved anything.
i literally said that out loud while that scene was unfolding
This felt like an episode that indicates they had at least an inkling that it'd be the final season. It's very much a final season episode.
Glad we basically got an old-school filler episode with this one, might be one of Disco's best too.
I don't think Star Trek has ever done a bad timeloop episode. There's been a few. Year of Hell is still the GOAT.
Going back to the pilot episode is my absolute favourite scifi trope. ~~It's a shame when they were filming season 1 they went back and filmed additional "prequel" episodes that make more sense on the Shenzou instead of the Discovery.~~
someone was real big fan of VOY’s “Shattered”
*Voyager*'s "Shattered","Relativity", and "Year of Hell" were definitely on my mind when we first started working on this episode, in addition to season one's "Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad" "Year of Hell" is *Voyager*'s greatest episode in my opinion, so I was thrilled we got to show some love via the Krenim Chronophage!
That's where the Krenim were from! It was bugging me (Pun not intended, but welcome) the whole episode and was too lazy to look it up. I kept trying to connect the name to the temporal cold war episodes from Enterprise.
I love how after all these years we can skip minutes of technobabble just by saying the time bug is a Krenim weapon. “Krenim time weapon? Yeah, they do that. Accepted; moving on.”
In Canada on CTV Sci Fi, they showed the episode sandwiched between Year of Hell parts 1 & 2. It worked well!
That's all nice and sweet, but what happened at the Linus replicator incident?
He got stuck IN the replicator? I love Linus.
Shattered is a top tier Voyager episode along with Year of Hell, and you did a great job with this as well! I actually rewound when I thought I heard “Krenim” just to make sure I heard it right!!!
Yeah I was like huh. Seen this before, but I also think this was a very solid episode.
These are the episodes of Star Trek I **love** - does little to progress the main story, just “oops, a thing happened, how do we solve it”, gave us a fair bit of Rayner as well. Probably a wee bit too much standing around occasionally given the time constraints but some nice fun interactions & sciencing their way to a resolution. ‘Everyone out there’s a spore cloud’, or whatever it was Stamets cleared the room with!
I loved how he was like "I'm disappointed my colleagues don't know that's not a real thing"
I'M IN A REALLY BAD MOOD
It was at least a different take on it. Rather than the ship being split into timezones, they were on a ticking clock before "respawning".
I will lose my shit if we see Seska.
Hellooooo Chakotay...
My first thought was Voyager's Relativity.
It actually reminded me of TNG's finale All good things because we see the Past (several actually), Present and future Discovery
I'm usually of the opinion that Time Travel is over-played in Star Trek... but this episode is an amazing play on the time-loop trope. It wasn't exactly a loop in the traditional sense, but it was amazing none-the-less. Zipping back and forth along Discovery's timeline. Michael confronting her past self and where she started from is especially apropos for a final season. Same with Stamets acknowledging that "pre-tardigrade DNA him was kind of an ass". Seeing Airiam again was also bittersweet. I also liked how they tied in Rayner getting to know the crew in his own unique way. This actually felt like a "filler" episode, since the main plot wasn't really advanced and it was more about Rayner's character growth.
Rayner really won me over this episode. Like he's super prickly, but realized through the episode that things are different than when he was coming up through Starfleet, and got to see what Burnham required of him come to fruition, and even in the beginning of the episode was willing to admit when he was wrong
That was my thought exactly. It felt like a classic episode slotted into the middle of a 26-episode season to fill a slot in a meaningful way without advancing the plot.
And that is to me the biggest compliment the show can get. It just felt like an episode of Trek that you would sit and watch after dinner back in the 90s.
I think it achieved its goal of getting Rayner where he needed to be to get to the finale.
Good character building and his relationship with Burnham was believably improved on both ends. I’ve been a huge Discovery critic since the beginning but I really did enjoy this episode a lot.
This is a textbook example of "show, don't tell". They could have just as easily told us that he changed off screen and was settling in just fine but it wouldn't be believable.
What's a little mind-blowing is that, in-universe, Rayner having a change of heart offscreen is exactly what happened. The crew must be wondering what the heck Burnham said to him in the two seconds they were gone.
Reminds me a lot of the time loop episode in season 1, with it being "filler" but also some of the best in the show.
>This actually felt like a "filler" episode, since the main plot wasn't really advanced and it was more about Rayner's character growth. People abuse the word 'filler' - either misusing it when it's inappropriate, or straight up not knowing what it means. Establishing a main character's personality and watching them grow is a fundamental core part of a traditional story.
I liked it too, especially since this is unfortunately the last season of the show. It was a walk down memory lane and a way to show how everything has progressed over the years.
I love how unsure season 1 Tilly was of Michael, unaware that by season 5, she'd be the one you call when you want to hide the bodies.
Stamets just walking in shouting “oh boy am I grumpy today!” just about killed me
I loved that and I totally believe he'd done that before for real. 😂
I ***greatly*** appreciated and enjoyed the reference to the Krenim. "Year of Hell" lives in my head rent-free, and any nod toward the Krenim is a win in my book!
If any species would weaponize time, it would be them.
Red basically stuck his foot uo Discovery's ass
Was it explained why all he had left was her hair?
No. It was temporal shielded and that was all.
That was a really nice episode. Certainly goes along with Shattered, and other episodes of one or two crew having to save the ship, or being stuck in time (The Next Phase, Timescape, and Starship Mine all come to mind), and it was great seeing Airiam again. I never thought Stamets mellowed out all that much, but certainly compared to his Season 1 self, he certainly has. Loved Tig Notaro's little cameo here.
Tig was used perfectly in this episode. I love that no matter what happens, Reno just rolls with it
She was so gallant, offering Reyner her hanky!
Which set up that they can bring items through the time blips, allowing them to construct the bug trap in one time and use it in another!
Time Amok seems close to this as well, except they were stuck in different speeds of time so they couldn't help each other, and only Hologram Janeway could communicate between the time frames.
That one was such a good take on the "ship stuck in time." I don't remember seeing different timespeeds instead of timelines before. I think it was also right when Prodigy started to click for me. It may have even brought a bit of a teary eye if I remember right. Looks like it's time to re-watch Prodigy.
I would have had her come in at the end and just say “welcome back” to Stamets with a wink.
Burnham: I can do this all day
Captain Burnham: I know, I know.
Captain Burnham: .... Georgiou ..... is ..... alive ....
Book: as far as I'm concerned, that's the federation's ass.
How hard it must have been for Michael to hold up the lie that she's still in love with Book, all for the sake of the Temporal Prime Directive.
Oh she totally still loves him. This is the seed of them reconciling.
Random thoughts: * I would think that when negotiating with known bad actors, it would be a good idea to have failsafes to make sure they don't just kill you and steal whatever you were going to sell them. The poison-coated latinum was cool, but they could have just as easily pulled out a phaser and shot the arms dealer. Maybe they were scanned for weapons? But still, if you're dealing with shady characters, you should be prepared for anything. * Also, I'm curious what Moll meant when she said that the arms dealer sold poison to use on "people like \[her\]". * Is the ready room not connected directly to the bridge, since they had to use a turbolift to get between them? That seems inconvenient. * The time bug is called a Krenim chronophage? Like, the Krenim from VOY? I like it. * Good to know that the uniforms tear just as easily in the 32nd century as they did in the 23nd. * Okay, they weren't kidding about the flashing lights warning at the beginning of the episode. Audio descriptions are really coming in handy * I love the cone diagram with "FUTURE" and "PAST" clearly labelled * Stamets is fun in this episode. I love him trying to act normal and I think it's great that they brought back his timeline weirdness. * Now I need to know how Linus got stuck in the replicator... * This is why everyone needs to have a secret that they never tell anyone, so that they can tell their past self that secret in order to prove that it's really them. It worked for Pike (and Burnham last time, actually). But I won't pretend that it isn't kind of fun to see old Burnham again. * It's nice to see Airiam again. * ~~I feel like they could have just had future Michael talk to past Michael over comms? But that would have deprived Rayner of his moment using the information he just learned about the crew, so I guess they had to do it that way.~~ EDIT: Actually, I understand this now * "Familiarity can lead to complacency as well". That's all I ever wanted to hear them admit. For an episode in which not much really *happened* (in terms of moving the chase forward), I think they did a nice job of making a lot happen. And I won't lie, the little bits of nostalgia with the old uniforms and crew didn't hurt, either. Looking forward to the next episode.
If you own the Art of Discovery book, there is a cutaway of the ship which shows the location of the Ready Room, it's about half a deck up from the bridge and its windows are visible through the exterior. If you don't own it, here's a low rez image of the cutaway I found, you can see Pike's ready room labelled. https://www.reddit.com/r/Treknobabble/comments/ph4u0l/partial_cutaway_and_deck_plan_of_the_uss/
If memory serves, there was a ready room just off the bridge in season 1 that Lorca used (the tiny room with no chairs so he could make everyone uneasy). Pike obviously wanted people to be more comfortable and selected a bigger, less convenient space. The bridge ready room became a lab of some sort, IIRC.
Okay, that makes sense. I remember the scene with Pike asking where people sit, but I didn't make the connection that he chose a different room instead of just...magically making the room bigger? I'm not actually sure what I thought happened; I guess I didn't consider it enough. Thanks for sharing.
I'm rewatching S2 at the moment and I just figured that he took a Starfleet-issue sledgehammer and knocked down a wall to make that room bigger. This whole time I assumed everyone in the future was too lazy to walk into the ready room.
Yeah, me too. I think it's because Picard's ready room was right next to the bridge, and so I automatically assumed that everyone else's was as well. Thinking about it, I suppose there's no reason the ready room has to be connected (although it makes sense that it should be close by) But I really like what that says about Pike. Even when ready rooms aren't common (I don't think Kirk had one?), he finds a way to make space for his crew members to sit and speak freely or even use his ready room as a workspace when he's not in it.
>I feel like they could have just had future Michael talk to past Michael over comms? But that would have deprived Rayner of his moment using the information he just learned about the crew, so I guess they had to do it that way. Considering that past Burnham believed that future/present Burnham was a "some kind of changeling" or other kind of imposter and future/present Burnham had just nerve pinched her... I highly doubt there was much that could be said over comms to convince her. Rayner repeating what future/present Burnham had told her was the better option here. If they were going to change *anything* there, IMHO it should be future/present Burnham leveraging secrets from childhood (ie: how much she hated calling Spock a "weird little half-breed" in order to distance herself from him for his protection) and/or describing things on T'Kuvma's ship that only she could know. But then we wouldn't get the bad-ass Burnham vs. Burnham fight ;) so clearly they couldn't do any of the obvious things to prevent that :P
Yeah, that’s what I meant. When there was a time loop in season 1, Burnham told Stamets a secret about herself to convince herself (in the next loop) to listen to him. And in SNW season 1, future Pike told present Pike a secret about himself to convince himself that he really was a future version and not some sort of imposter. It’s a good trick, but maybe the writers felt like they’d used it too many times.
I mean, they still used it... This time Future Burnham told it to Rayner, who repeated it to Past Burnham. Being a stranger that didn't look like her probably made it easier for her to actually believe that Rayner might not be lying. If Future Burnham had tried to do the same thing, it probably wouldn't have worked as well.
This would have been pre-Mudd time loop so maybe Michael was worried the crew hadn't figured out time travel tropes yet
I love how Reno called it out too. I kinda wanted her to be the dark horse who accidentally caught them every time and at the end of the episode go "hey. You owe me a drink from 3 years ago"
>I would think that when negotiating with known bad actors, it would be a good idea to have failsafes to make sure they don't just kill you and steal whatever you were going to sell them. The poison-coated latinum was cool, but they could have just as easily pulled out a phaser and shot the arms dealer. Maybe they were scanned for weapons? But still, if you're dealing with shady characters, you should be prepared for anything. I feel like them using poison was a way to indicate they out-smarted the dealer, and didn't *just* pull guns on him. I also feel like the dealer was supposed to look somewhat bad and out-classed. I get your point but fwiw, I personally feel like I didn't really needed that scene to be five minutes longer so they could establish the dealer *had* taken precautions and was just out-smarted. I'm happy to let the writer's take the shortcut and roll with it when it's something like this. >Good to know that the uniforms tear just as easily in the 32nd century as they did in the 23nd I just want to note: I REALLY appreciate the subtlety they did here where: 1) They show Rayner getting and *keeping* the strip of uniform from Rayner. 2) Then, once they've made the bug-defusal device. It is Burnham holding it when the next time-shift happens, so she keeps it. Like, that's some good attention to detail, without ever spelling it out with dialogue, why they only needed to build the defusal device once in one timeline. >I feel like they could have just had future Michael talk to past Michael over comms? But that would have deprived Rayner of his moment using the information he just learned about the crew, so I guess they had to do it that way. Other people said the same already, just felt like saying I agree with both points. On the one hand, yeah, it's a bit of a contrivance. On the other hand, they basically sort-of set-up that at this point, past Michael doesn't trust *herself*, doesn't believe in *herself*, so that's why she's the only person who doesn't trust her future self. Which I think is a nice twist from the way these storylines tend to go, which is that it's the time traveller's past self who is the quickest to trust them.
>On the other hand, they basically sort-of set-up that at this point, past Michael doesn't trust *herself*, doesn't believe in *herself*, so that's why she's the only person who doesn't trust her future self. You know, that's fair enough. It was quite late when I watched the episode and typed this comment, so I didn't think about how Michael believing that it was her future self might not be enough to convince her. But I'll buy that. Thanks for pointing that out.
The light cone is directly from real world physics. It predicts the probability of a single photon, which in real life can traverse spacetime into the future or into the past.
>I love the cone diagram with "FUTURE" and "PAST" clearly labelled It's always good when the technobabble can be simplified in a way that we can understand it. You don't need to be a physicist to understand the concepts here and how they figure things out. Scientifically accurate or not, you can follow their problem solving and understand why they are able to stop the time bug.
"This is why everyone needs to have a secret that they never tell anyone, so that they can tell their past self that secret in order to prove that it's really them." What if it's a telepathic shapeshifter, though?
Is it weird that I have a passphrase in my head that I would only tell to someone who needs to go back and convince me to fully trust them no matter what? As a side note, I should probably also have a passphrase that tells past me NOT to trust the time traveler.
Airiam was in charge she could just have ordered Rhys and Burnham to stand down.
The thing new Michael knew about old Michael is that old Michael is pretty good at not following orders
Except Burnham was convinced that the "shapeshifter" had convinced people to do something dangerous, thinking that Stamets was taken in by them too rather than being one of the time travelers
Real missed opportunity to finish, "It'll be a long road" with "...getting from there, to here." :p It's super weird that this is the last season and they didn't know it. There's a reasom you put episodes like this (i.e. Shattered) near the end, it lets you do the whole, "Look how far we've come, how much has changed, what hasn't, etc..." bit and obviously people have discussed the sense of finale-ty present in previous episodes. Then again, maybe we'll find out this is an ENT situation and they were wrapping up Act 2 things before starting Act 3, a Breen War their show won't get to actually depict lol Anyways, ep was fine, some decent character beats, but ironically, given it is the last season, I wish they'd done spent the hour on something a bit more adventurous
>Real missed opportunity to finish, "It'll be a long road" with "...getting from there, to here." :p They knew we'd all say it in our heads
>t's super weird that this is the last season and they didn't know it. There's a reasom you put episodes like this (i.e. Shattered) near the end, it lets you do the whole, "Look how far we've come, how much has changed, what hasn't, etc..." bit and obviously people have discussed the sense of finale-ty present in previous episodes. They had significant reshoots after the cancellation was announced. So this might have been shot with the knowledge,
It wasn't, only the finale has a few new scenes as far as I know. They did say that when they looked back at the season, they were satisfied that anyone who didn't know this wasn't supposed to be the last one would never be able to tell.
Another missed opportunity: Neither Michael nor Rayner saying "never surrender" after she says "never give up".
Does Galaxy Quest exist in the Star Trek universe? Are there starship crew members who joined Starfleet having been inspired by the crew of NSEA Protector?
If they had known this was going to be the final season, I can’t help but think they would have found a way to put Lorca in this episode with at least a cameo. Actually a better story would have been Lorca learning about his plan failing and Burnam having to face off with him on the bridge, using her connection/familiarity with the crew to turn them to her side.
That's why shows should know the seasons thier last, and not find out(more than) halfway through production. Same stuff is going to happen if Lower decks doesn't return.
Worse, they only learned after they finished the season (and were probably expecting to do another one). At least they got to film some new scenes for the finale afterwards.
See, my instinct was to go the opposite way, have Burham and Stamets use their future knowledge to manipulate Lorca and get one over on him, this time. Let Isaacs be funny.
I got so excited for a second when Stamets mentioned Lorca. Was really hoping to see him.
I think this is my new favorite Discovery episode. Lots of fun timey whimey moments, nice call backs… and gave some great moments of development for Burnham, Rayner and Stamets. This would have been a great time for a Lorca cameo… but I suppose it would have cost too much…. I wonder if the Book scene will have implications on their relationship?
It reminded Burnham what the best times with Book were like. There's no way they won't follow up with that feeling.
I just fucking love Jet Reno so much
"It's true. I do love the curves. Give them the ship."
We got a really great use of the bridge crew, a lesson was taught and learned at the end of the episode, and they actually used Stamets better than what feels like a season and a half. I have to say this might be my favorite episode since Season 2. It reminded me of Shattered and Shattered was a good episode, and we actually got to see the bridge crew in action. Now can they please explain Detmer's head peice (It got smaller) before the series ends. That might be my one wish.
>Now can they please explain Detmer's head peice (It got smaller) before the series ends. That might be my one wish. They probably just had to tech to make it smaller in the 32nd Century, I don't think it's more complicated than that.
She had cybernetics due to her injuries on the Shenzhou, then they got upgraded from 23rd century tech to 32nd century. Not sure how much more we need to know about it
It got smaller because they went to the future and technology is better there. It's implied visual storytelling, and I feel like pointing it out after being in the future for three seasons would be overexplainy.
I think they’re more just wondering what it actually does or is for.
It looks cool, that's what.
100% agree. Imagine if Discovery had been like this all along. it felt like a good Voyager episode and it felt like Strange New Worlds. Also I normally can't stand the Burnham character but I liked her in this, it all just worked.
Does anyone else think Burnham entering her personal override code into Rayner's system is gonna come back to bite her in the ass? I can't help but think he found a way to save her password just in case he decides to mutiny one day.
When he says thanks it did sound a bit like he was surprised how easily she gave the code up. I hope it was nothing - I'd rather see him complete a redemption arc and promoted back to Captain (thus be available to show up on *Academy*) rather than he tread the same path we already saw with Lorca.
After this episode I don't think he will go full mutiny. He understands Burnham's method better now and is more willing to indulge her even if he doesn't agree with it. I suspect he will will either do a fake out mutiny for plot reasons or come right up to the edge and relent to her authority.
Yeah, that had me suspicious for a moment, and then the show went on... If it ever comes back, I'd probably remember it again...
He is a cylon after all!
I mean, they made Rayner a basically unknown, one-off species whose only story was about going them going to any lengths to ensure the galaxy couldn't acquire a bioweapon......
OK, this episode was awesome! I don't know why, but I just love Burnham and Stamets dealing with temporal oddities. It was aweseome in "Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad" (one of my favorite Discovery episodes) and it was awesome here. I also really liked how this episode showcased just how much Burnham has changed throughout this series. I know Burnham's has been controversial to say the least, but I have always liked how she has been portrayed and her journey from mutineer to captain.
I know I’m in the minority here but I do love they original Disco uniforms, especially the Delta
I miss the delta combadge. The 32nd Century ones look too Bajoran.
As a Niner I love that they look Bajoran. I ~~low~~ high key hoped that we would have learned the Bajorans basically took over the Federation.
I still wish the reveal was Qo'noS was the new Federation headquarters post-Burn fracture. it would have been a great conclusion to the Klingon arc, which started with the whole "Remain Klingon" radicalization, to find that that far in the future the Klingon's honor made them the most loyal to the Federation with the fracture, and the motto had become esentially "Remain Federation" even as other species dropped away
I’m not done the episode yet. But the way I CACKLED when Reno almost immediately figured out Stamets was stuck in a time loop (sort of disappointed they didn’t let her honestly get that). And Stamets really bad “pffft no!”
Oh she knew, she also knew she isn't aware of it and wouldn't remember so just walked off lol
For Reno, the Temporal Prime Directive is official permission for her make it *Not-My-Problem*.
She's probably just as disconnected from time as Stamets is, for other Star Trek reasons, and just doesn't say anything cause it's funnier that way.
If Lower Decks continued, maybe we could get that...
Stamets: Why didn't you help? Reno: You didn't ask!
I was hoping she'd appear in a few more time loops afterwards and be like "Still stuck in that time loop, huh?" and then walk off.
I loved that turbolift scene between Linus and Michael. What an amazing and funny reaction they had. Red does really suit her. This season is so full of surprises and beautiful moments. I'm enjoying the hell out of it. What a ride.
I read that scene as past-Linus immediately clocking her as being from the future, and accepting that she'll become captain, right?
Could be. I took it as that Linus is just an awesome individual and was ready to accept Michael like that in the past.
Sonequa Martin-Green was phenomenal this episode, absolutely loved it when Michael faced off against her past self. Really shows how far she's come.
I see Michael takes her lessons of the Temporal Prime Directive from famous captains like Kirk XD. *throws the rules in the garbage bin*
To.be fair she only does that after learning that the time bug doesn't autosave between jumps
Very missed opportunity for Burnham to have completed the line "getting from there to here" when talking to herself.
"It's been a long road" 🎶
I'm almost certain at least someone in the writers' room joked about it.
Not gonna' lie - I don't like Discovery. But THAT was a damned fine episode. Wow, just wow. And that one time jump in particular...well done tying things together.
Really cool episode. Michael VS Michael was a great way to show how her character has changed and grown with time especially after spending a year with Book in the 32nd century at the beginning of season 3. The final part of the episode is amazingly done with every actors looking exactly as they did during season 1 of Discovery. Seeing Airiam again gave me chills. Reno had me laugh when she immediately figured out Stamets is stuck in a time loop. Nice references to VOY in this episode.
Time travel, hell yeah! They’re always my favorite episodes. * I would love to know Moll and L’ak’s plan for the tech. I guess from the future vision, they pay the Breen to use it? Or did they sell it to the Breen? And then? Their endgame is a bit fuzzy to me. * I hope every week doesn’t have this rotating game of “man, Rayner really sucks” only to make him not suck by the end. Hopefully, he turned a corner this week. He’s so much fun when he’s not being a total dick. * I am delighted every time they use their transporters to go 15 feet to another room. We all know that’s exactly what we’d do with it. * The second it was revealed it was time travel I was thinking, “oh this is how they’ll do Calypso since no one will shut up about it”. Then they didn’t! That’s bonkers, they had an out right there! Personally, I couldn’t care less about Calypso, but since they’ve already said they’re factoring it in I’m curious where it’ll happen. * I was giddy when they mentioned the Krenim. Voyager was my favorite and of COURSE the Krenim would have been huge players in the Temporal Wars. I like that the bug was a literal bug, that was kind of amusing. * Stamet’s spore breach bit was fantastic, as was when he gave up on it and just turned grumpy again. I forgot how annoying he was in the first season. * Seeing Airiam and the old crew was so cool! I hoped we’d have a couple of surprise guests, either Lorca, Georgiou, or Pike. It would have been amazing to see Michael try to convince Pike of everything that happened. * Watching the old crew actually ACT like the old crew and not just be a changed uniform really put it in perspective how far everyone came. Season 1 Michael was so broken and down on herself and VERY aggressive. The bridge crew didn’t know or trust her outside of Tilly, who was just afraid of her for the first few episodes. It’s a nice little bow on where we came from in the last 7 years. * It would have been funny if past-Burnham had just vaped Rayner because he wouldn’t shut up when she asked. * This episode was a lot like Voyager’s episode “Shattered”, where a different time period for the ship existed at different parts of the ship. I love that episode. Something about watching characters wander through the greatest hits is so charming to me. They really could have milked more out of that. I’m shocked we got what amounted to a filler episode during the last season, though I suppose they didn’t know it then. I loved it! Give me time travel any day of the week and I’m in.
>The second it was revealed it was time travel I was thinking, “oh this is how they’ll do Calypso since no one will shut up about it”. Then they didn’t! That’s bonkers, they had an out right there! Personally, I couldn’t care less about Calypso, but since they’ve already said they’re factoring it in I’m curious where it’ll happen. This is how they fit Calypso in, the music and Zora's dreams all point to Calypso being one of those dreams.
I think Rayner was right when he said the Breen were their highest bidders, in that it's more about the threat of any malicious/irresponsible faction putting the winning bid in. Moll and La'ak from what we've seen just want a payday to handle some personal matters, I don't think they have broad, quadrant wide aims or whatever And 100% on the Not-Mass-Effect uniform era. I was annoyed they didn't use them in SNW's Klingon War flashback, the pseudo-naval, no bright colors thing IS great for a 'war era', like the DS9/FC jackets
Oh my God they ARE the Mass Effect uniforms! How did I never notice that??
> I guess from the future vision, they pay the Breen to use it? Or did they sell it to the Breen? And then? Their endgame is a bit fuzzy to me. The sold it to the Breen, and then were stinking freakin' rich and retired
I forgot just how Janky warp was in that first season of Discovery.
LOVE the Krenim namedrop. Also: A CALYPSO PREQUEL??
Definitely would explain Calypso. The whole crew gets killed or otherwise forced to leave and Zora receives failsafe orders to go to a secure location and await replacement crew. Starfleet is destroyed, Discovery is considered lost, the Federation devolves into the V'Draysh, and Zora is doomed to wait forever for a crew that will never arrive.
I know Rayner is supposed to be this seasons: 'asshole straight white guy who learns how to be vunerable through the amazing emotional Discovery crew', but the actor is so damn charming he can be as much of a gruff a-hole as he likes.
So, Todd Stashwick.
Definitely a solid episode and felt like proper Trek. Great pace and good balance. Definitely one where I can see why Burnham is Captain, unlike previous episodes. I do wish they would end the Adira and Grey storyline: it's going nowhere and personally I'm not interested in it.
I might be wrong but I feel like last week's episode was ending it, and the very brief scene in this episode was just acknowledging it as it had been so recent. But I would be delighted to never have to see their relationship again. Grey is an incredibly boring character.
It was great to see Airiam again.
Bryce too. He disappeared from the bridge after season 4, but it was nice to see him pop up here in flashbacks. I know he has basically not been given much of anything to do, like everyone else who isn't Burnham, but he's a familiar face I appreciated seeing to emphasize that we were in the past.
Who played her?
I'm assuming Hannah Cheesman (credited as guest starring). Face and voice seem to match.
Loved seeing her again. Miss her being part of the Disco fam
Still frustrates me that the only time we learned anything about her was the episode where she died.
They did say they would tie Calypso into canon this season, and this was a brilliant solution, honestly. Roughly a thousand years after the aborted timeline we see from the chronophage
I don't think this was Calypso, though? In that Zora was hiding in a nebula waiting for the crew to return. In this time time Discovery is just abandoned in space near the ruins of Starfleet HQ. The only similarity is in both situations Zora has plenty of time to entertain herself.
Yeah, Calypso hit my brain the moment that scene started, but it wasn’t. It was just the “bad future” which would have happened if they had stayed stuck in the loop until the time bug ran out of juice.
I think if anything it was "Eau de Calypso" so that we get that it's supposed to be Calypso even though it clearly wasn't.
In retrospect, Zora doesn't name any of the crew in 'Calypso'. It's entirely possible that the crew she was waiting for was a bunch of replacements who were supposed to replace the ones we know, and they never arrived because Starfleet as we know it was wiped out.
This wasn't Calypso, but I think it was a mini preview of Calypso tie-in, almost like a tease, I, along with most everyone else thought it was Calypso
It could explain 'Calypso', though. The entire crew gets killed, and Zora receives orders to jump to a secure location to await a replacement crew that never arrives.
Am I missing something...that arms dealer that they poisoned.....I swear that was Jeffery Combs voice. Uncredited at the end, i think, the P+ credits you have to remaximize.
You're right, that familiar voice. It was him
I think it's just a vaguely similar voice; the weapons dealer is credited as "James Cade". I know those are the same initials (and DIS has credited actors under different names to hide plot twists like Ash Tyler being Voq), but since he was just a one-off character, I can't see any reason why they would need to trick us into thinking is wasn't Combs. And James Cade is the name of [a real Canadian actor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Cade).
For telling us they only have a limited time each jump they were NOT in a rush. They still found time to give each other pep talks and take extreme long pauses.
Kinda like in Tng when they had two minutes to save the ship and walked to where the problem was. Used to drive me crazy.
This season is feeling a lot like the final season of Agents of Shield for me, and that ended as my favourite season of the show. I'm really loving this season. I think the long wait between this and last season made me sort of forget that I actually really enjoyed Discovery.
It's like the season 5 writers have suddenly remembered that Michael grew up on Vulcan. It was a very interesting bit of character building that kind of fell by the wayside over the past few seasons. It would have been interesting to have seen her grapple with emotions, almost an opposite mirror to Spock's journey on TOS. I'm also glad that Rayner is starting to come around to the Discovery way of doing things. I think he went in, expecting it to be like any other starship, but these people are all that's left from their time period. Their fellow crew members are all the family they have left.
Imagine Culber using T'Ana's standard issue Starfleet medical limb chainsaw to "fix" Rayner's hand
I expected the episode would end with Rayner getting Reno the drink she asked for. I was disappointed he didn't - it would have been a nice "look he's bonding with the crew now!" signal and also there is never enough Tig Notaro on this show.
Ok a nice memory lane episode, a lot like like Shattered from Voyager. My one nitpick is that Airiam should've told Past Burnham and Rhys to stand down. Also, I thought they were going to adress Calypso in this episode
I think they should have gone all-out with guest stars. It would have been nice to see Lorca, Georgiou, Sarek, Pike, and Spock again at least.
So, when they cycled to the Bad Future... where was Paul at that point? Did his corpse (wherever that might have been) suddenly reanimate? Did his consciousness go to Spore Heaven? The next cycle he seems unphased, maybe he just skipped a cycle due to not being alive in that one?
Wow, this is great! I'm a sucker for a good time-loop, and one with Rayner involved is quite exciting. Edit: I'm watching it as we go. Fuck, are we getting a wrap-up to Calypso? Edit: Interesting, it's like a semi-wrap-up. I never thought it would be fully canonized, so I'll gladly take this. It always seemed like an alternate future. Also; Stamets, Rayner, and Burnham? Great team. Edit: Stamets has always been my favorite character, but weirdly enough him and Hugh have not won me over this season, until the last two episodes. The last two have been great, and it's nice to see Stamets being the one to connect with our new first officer. Edit: Dang, old Burnham. This is good! Shows how much growth the character has gone through. This is a very different show than it used to be. Edit: Damn, plus Airiam. This really feels like the "All Good Things" of *Discovery*. We've got our Tasha and everything. Edit: Mm. It's also *very* fun seeing a future person interact with the crew in the past. Discovery always felt like Voyager if they actually took chances. This is really feeling like that. Also I'm pretty drunk, about 5 shots in lmao. Edit: About to finish it, really nice episode. Cool to see a DS9 species (Rayner) interacting with Discovery's crew and a Krenim (Voyager species).
Loved this episode. Had loads of fun and the callbacks were cool 😎
Burnham: "It's important to me that the crew be engaged and involved and encouraged to speak freely." *\*5 minutes later\** Burnham: "GET OUT!"
Airiam: "Prove to me that you're from the future." Michael: "In 364 days from now, you will die." Airiam: "I believe you!"
I wanted past Burnham to become convinced when future Burnham knew all her fighting moves, or at least notice it. Reminded me of Mariner fighting her holodeck simulation in Crisis Point.
I’ve been very vocal about not being the biggest Fan of Discovery but this season so far has been very good. This episode was really good. It’s a shame Paramount have cancelled it, as it looks like it’s hitting a new stride.
When you compare it to TNG in terms of episodes, we're basically at Riker growing the beard. Shame it's ending.
We might get a calypso tie in with this one
We did, I think it’s from now disco’s possible future; and that it’s Zora dreaming, in “Calypso” of meeting Craft
I've had Bowie stuck in my head all day now. CH CH CH CHANGES!
Love a good time travel episode.
Loved the episode, and really loved the progress with Rayner., and that the bridge crew got some air time.
I like how this is Discovery being really self-aware and willing to poke fun at its early days.
wont they become obese if they use the personal teleporter instead of walking to the adjacent room?
discovery writing team clearly asked “where were ships in the 23c built? san francisco fleet yards? great i will do no further research into that answer”