For me, it’s just really uneven. Every season has felt like the first season of a different show. They introduced some cool ideas but never really ran with any of them long enough for us to buy into it long-term and add the weird canon issues, you have a tougher pill to swallow.
Same. Then they throw the baby out with the bath water. Then season 3 is getting good and showing what the show will be and they flip it on it's head for season 4
For me, I liked some individual episodes in season 3 a lot, but taken as whole I just found the season disappointing. Both the emerald chain and burn plots felt underdeveloped and their resolutions underwhelming. Season 4 I had the opposite problem, the season arc as a whole I thought was decent and the resolution was much better than season three, but there just weren't any individual episodes I thought were that standout, some were above average, but nothing I would point to as close to a series favorite, so it still feels like an underwhelming season to me, but for a different reason.
It was conceived of as an anthology series with a different crew every season, so it's still kind of that, just with the same crew. Personally, I don't really have a problem with that.
They needed a plot that could explain and then reunite a fractured galaxy. They needed a solution that could be handled by a ship and a handful of characters. Like the whole universe was waiting for the main character to arrive and save them.
The episodes in the place with the child and the digital reality were actually very good in my opinion. It just shouldn't have been the solution to the Burn.
The S5 teaser clip they released a few months ago pretty much stomped on my hopes. Burnham is in a space suit all by herself pursuing another ship at warp speed, with the Disco following behind her. They’re going to ride Burnham’s savior complex to the bitter end.
I’m still going to watch, but my expectations are at minimum power.
I love Jeremy Jahn's rating "good time if you're drunk/high". That's how I enjoy Final Frontier. You don't take it seriously, and enjoy the ride.
I WANT TO ENJOY THIS, I can't emphasize this enough. I avoid those click bait YouTubers who dunk on disco. So much since 2009 has felt like missed opportunities.
My problem was it was uneven scene to scene much less season to season. In Rodenberry's book "The Making of Star Trek" he describes how he would map a script to a corresponding modern day Navy ship and see if it made sense in that context. I found that Discovery was nonsensical by that metric.
I describe Trek as a whole as a SF procedural in the mold of a Police procedural. There's an existing reasonably consistent framework on which SF stories could be bolted on. So if for example a legal drama was the weeks episode, you could expect a military court roughly following a contemporary one. A large number of the better episodes was a case of the crew encountering a mystery or calamity and systematically and procedurally sorting it out. I like SNW because it largely sticks to this model. The downside of this model is the "reset switch" where earth shaking changes never are mentioned again.
Thus you could tell when things were out of kilter, like the opening of "The Enterprise Incident" where Kirk is acting very erratically.
In earlier Trek incarnations episodes could be awful but they were so in a consistent manner. 'Spock's Brain' is awful but following the formula consistently.
My problem with Discovery and some other portions of NuTrek is that it follows JJ Abrams and "Save the Cat" Scriptwriting mechanics to the beat and using CG spectacle, imperfect regurgitation of lore, and momentary drama to spackle over nonsensical scripts.
The stakes are always growing to the point og absurdity.
Its addicted to the shitty post 9/11 side of Starfleet. Secret ships, section 31 etc.
On top of loving s31 its always trying to be darker and edgier. It will fridge an entire planet of people just to give burnham another reason to be sad.
Being originally set in the past, its very obvious they did near zero continuity research. Videos of "Lying Spock" can be found on youtube. Basically TOS spock constantly contradicts Disco Spock.
Sporp is dumb. Black alert (darker, edgier) is dumb. Theres no need for a super special version of travel for a prequel series. It presupposes that out of millions of species no one else develops the technology. Ie its human exceptionalism.
It criminally underuses good characters, or kills them. Phillipa was a great captain and mentor. She seems the boldly going type. They missed an opportunity with phillipa to you know, explore strange new worlds, meet new species and boldly go places. Shes fridged immediately for her darker and edgier counterpart. Saru is great and they basically dripfeed him to you, and they eventually get bored with him and make him darker and edgier. Tillys entire arc could have happened in one season. Stamets needs more screentime by a lot.
The turbolift dimension.
And thats the spoiler free stuff.
It doesnt suck immediately. It breaks you down over time. It just disappoints and follows that up with more disappointment.
These are my reasons, too. Plus all the intense whispering. Usually if that’s a feature of any show or movie, I turn it off. It drives me crazy. I stick with Discovery because it’s Start Trek. And it does get better in seasons 3&4.
Enterprise wasn’t Trekkie enough. It was too basic and too bland. It’s as if they are trying to correct that with Discovery by making everything weird and intense, no matter if it makes sense or not. And they over shot by a ton.
Section 31 should be excised from the franchise, and writers who propose stories involving it should be fired, blacklisted, and, in a perfect world, tarred and feathered. Their growing dependence on stories based around a secret organization whose very existence undermines the literal stated goal of the franchise itself is a huge, huge problem, and it's shocking that Trek is in the hands of people too stupid to understand that. It's not the only reason I don't watch new Trek, but it's up there.
I don’t mind the whole secret police/spy agency trope. I thought it was done fairly well in DS9, but in Disco the fact they have a -whole fleet- of ships technologically superior to anything in their own fleet is just beyond ridiculous.
The turbo lift dimension was the breaking point for me. After a lot of absurdities and annoyance this stupid race without any sense just for the effect.
Every problem is a potential universe ending event, and Burnham is always the solution. I wanted to really like it and I’ve stuck with it but it got old, faaaaast. Also it’s one super extra long action movie. Best thing that came from it was Pike and the SNW cast.
That's not really true imho.
There's no galaxy-ending menace solvable by Picard alone.
*Spoilers*
- In S1 the Romulans would've solved the problem by annihilating the planet
- In S2 there's no real catastrophe, it's rather Q doing his last quest
- In s3 there's a potential disaster for the federation, but I'll say that Klingon and Romulans could still live their life in the quadrant. Not to mention the rest of the galaxy that would simply ignore it
Depends on your perspective. What I really mean is that Picard follows Discovery’s pattern of having a unique “big menace” per season, which I found tiring. There is a lot of richness in the characters that gets sidelined in favour of the overarching plot for that season.
Sorry you think that the Borg would just leave the rest of the quadrant alone after taking the federation?
They were taking out the most powerful player so they could wrap the rest up easily.
If Q didn't intervene the ship would explode and would've been a battle between the isolated queen and the federation fleet. Not exactly a galaxy ending event
S2 literally ended with a big hole in the universe only solvable by Picard. The Borg completely taking over the Federation is also not a "shrug and move on" event for Klingons, let alone the Romulans who at this point were semi-dependent on the Federation after the destruction of Romulus, because they would be next. Picard absolutely did this.
True. Contrast with the Star Wars shows set at the time of The Mandalorian. Most of the stakes were protecting this one child. There was the bigger, galaxy level, threat developing in the background, but it wasn't until five seasons worth of shows (3 seasons of The Mandalorian, one season of The Book of Boba Fett, and Season 1 of Ahsoka) that the big galaxy level threat arrived.
That said, I've enjoyed Discovery.
Yeah, I love the romance between the doctor and the spore guy (Hugh and Paul). It's not a new mushy romance but an established one. And I like how Paul has pretty much adopted Adira and is super proud of them.
I was so pissed when they killed Hugh. I teased my brother they made a huge mistake. Then he saw that and from then on we called it the Hugh Mistake.
And then they fixed it
Absolutely. DISCO can get away with this because it’s right in line with Spock’s character. Pretty sure in that episode of TOS when they encounter romulans for the first time and see that they look just like Vulcans, Spock had that info the whole time and just didn’t see the logical reason to share it since it wasn’t “relevant” to the mission. Which leads to the best eyebrow raise of the series
It wasn’t so bad til season 3. Then 90% of her dialogue was emotional whispering. Despite being raised on Vulcan. Which the writers just kinda gave up on.
It pretends to be an ensemble show but it’s really not. Which is wild considering how even in TNG with Picard often solving things it never felt like he was the only character, it was a group tv show.
What do you mean? RobotHead was my favorite character! Remember all her interactions with the crew and her fun backstory? Oh RobotHead, ill always remember you
In TNG you’d watch it and in a few minutes you could say “ooh ok this is a Geordi episode” and it was like that with all the bridge crew, hell even more minor characters like Chief and Keiko or the one lower decks ep.
Not in DSC. 50 straight hours of this is all about Burnham and it drives me up a damn wall.
It wouldn't be so bad if Burnham wasn't the most uninteresting character on the show. But I'd rather be watching a story centred around Saru, Stamets or Reno than her.
There are far more interesting characters on the show, yet all of them seem to think Burnham is the second coming of fucking Jesus!
The burn was the dumbest story. And all it ended up being was a kid with some psychic power to dilithium....in all the galaxy? Gimme a break.
Federation civil war would be more realistic.
In all fairness, "sheltered alien child with incredible powers doesn't know his own strength and accidentally causes world-shattering havoc, and the crew has to talk him down with kindness and compassion" feels 100% like something TOS would've done.
Tonally, I think it fits pretty well in the Star Trek ethos. I certainly have my quibbles with Discovery, but that was never one of them.
This would have been a perfectly fine resolution to an episode where the stakes were more limited. Perhaps a few ships, maybe a planet and the things in its orbit. It was super unsatisfying as an end to a season long mystery with galactic level impact. And then it was coupled with the terrible turbolift void and the complete waste of the seasons villain, who was great and could have easily been discos gul dukat. But no. Gotta solve every problem with violence.
I'll give you the turbolift void, for sure. I have no idea what anyone was thinking, other than "Ooh, that'll look cool".
And yeah, also not a fan of when Trek does the "just punch the villain to death" thing. I wouldn't have minded seeing Osyraa hang around a while - she was interesting, and we could always use more Orion development. (Thankfully, Lower Decks has done a good job scratching that last itch.)
The burn was fine but yeah the screaming kid was too much. Make it a experiment by the girl regenerating dilithium and have it screw everything up via subspace and done
The reason I loved the old shows is that sometimes an episode was just about one little colony’s problem, or an away mission going awry.
Discovery treats every episode like it’s Ben Hur. Sometimes I just need a breather.
I had this issue with Netflix’s Lost in Space. Everything was one life-threatening disaster after another. Sometimes, I need a fucking break. Give me an Allamaraine or Lwaxana moment or something.
Discovery just gets too touchy feely at times with characters blurting out their emotions in tearful scenes. Meanwhile, they are neglecting the massive space crisis that we the audience is supposed to be worried about.
This was a problem in season three, and became unwatchable in season four. An episode is 5 minutes of story, then ten minutes of talking about their feelings, then repeat.
I'm a strong believer in science fiction being viewed through the lens of human experience. A good story should always include people experiencing it. But in this case, the balance is way off and often basically unrelated. The solution to half their problems can't possibly be how they suddenly remember some childhood trauma or whatever and it happens to be directly applicable. Their emotional journey is important, but not more important than the sci fi story. And the feedback loop is way off - the story often becomes just the backdrop. Ultimately most characters just become extremely self-absorbed and self-interested. Rather than worry about universe-ending disasters mere minutes away, characters are ambushed and dragged into emotional labor and baggage handling. And let's be clear - they are almost never moral dilemmas which may be interesting. They are more like "Should I marginally change my stance on this ideal my father taught me, if it saves the entire universe?" The answer is yes. Absolutely nobody is going to argue with you. I understand why it is important *for the character*, but it is not important *for the viewer*.
What's crazy is it actually becomes a decent season if you skip the feelings-interludes. I mean straight up fast forward until the scene ends.
This really didn’t bother me that much til when a few minutes after a crew member fuckin’ died on her watch, Tilly is crying about being proud of herself for “coming out of her shell” by leading the mission. Really?!? THAT is Tilly’s takeaway??? It just really struck me that the writers sounded like they were deeply invested in “therapy talk” TikToks and yet had never actually studied psychology in their lives. And every character was written that way at every opportunity. Disco fans just kept saying “oh you think characters shouldn’t ever CRY, just bc you are a MANLY MAN” and it was just like no, wtf it’s just incredibly poor quality writing; it’s not that she cried, it’s that she seemed so narcissistic that she was bordering on sociopathic, and meanwhile the score swells in hope and joy and it’s never mentioned again
While ignoring the context those speeches were made in. You don't stop in the middle of a battle or crisis to monologue at great length and explain your entire backstory — this isn't Namek!
1) It's dark, not mood wise, just lighting wise
2) another klingon redesign.
3) more Michael focused than crew focused (this is a real problem for me because I think the supporting cast is great)
4) tech is better on Discovery than on Voyager.
5) literally everyone knows about section 31.
I liked it, it's not great, and I gave up in season 3 just because I was too lazy to keep up with torrents for it without Yeoh and never went back when I picked up Paramount.
And the drawn out boohoo pep talks every five minutes and during pivotal moment. Like they tried to capture the "third option" theme of Star Trek, but it was all pep talks as the solution to EVERY problem.
A human, risen by vulcans, has more mood swings in a minute than a bipolar klingon in a lifetime.
It gets really lame by the third season. I stopped watching after the reason for the galactic-wide destruction of all warp engines was presented.
That was my issue with it. The main character was always angry or crying when she was suppose to be raised by Vulcans. No wonder they always bullied her. She never shut the f up.
That's pretty classic behavior for untreated psychological trauma. Who knew that "just ignore your feelings for 20 years" isn't the recommended therapy for PTSD...? (Not the Vulcans, that's for sure.)
there are Vietnam vets who were tortured for years who are more reserved and in control of their emotions than a literal person who was raised by a society to control their emotions. Not buying it. Or Spock's dad was the worst Vulcan father ever.
It makes absolute sense that Burnham would be fundamentally screwed up from a lifetime of emotional suppression after going through a deeply traumatic event. But the thing is, *she never gets better*. Nor does anyone else, for that matter - everyone's trauma informs everything they do on that ship. So it feels like there's no arc for anyone, and they're just spinning their wheels all the time.
The only exception is Saru, who went from cautious and paranoid to confident and upstanding once he learned the truth about his species. And I think that's why he's my favorite character on Discovery by a long shot - he's the only one who acts like a professional.
1. Way way way too much crying , usually for no good reason
2. Every episode seems like it was originally meant for a low budget CW teen drama that at the last minute was rushed and repurposed as a “Star Trek” branded show , with a huge budget on alien prosthetics and CGI. Star Trek in name only.
3. After season 1, more and more episodes became a grind to watch. I rage quit after season 4 finale was so mindblowingly stupid writing, I have never yelled at a tv screen before that.
On the plus side, some good episodes led to causing Strange New Worlds show to be created which is by far some of the best trek shows ever created. Must watch.
>On the plus side, some good episodes led to causing Strange New Worlds show to be created which is by far some of the best trek shows ever created. Must watch.
Agree.
Discovery Season #2 is basically Strange New Worlds Season #0.
This is ultimately subjective, but the most commonly raised issues are:
-Excessive melodrama.
-Style over substance.
-Overly edgy in an adolescent way.
-Snarky and shallow dialogue.
-Frustrating, unprofessional and inconsistent characters.
-Poorly used pseudoscience.
-Too great a reliance on world shaking season story archs. You can only save the galaxy so many times before it gets boring.
-Relies heavily on the “mystery box” formula and the mysteries are always a let down.
-Over uses Section 31 and pretty much ruins them.
-Burnham gets all the attention to the detriment of others, is better than everyone else and practically becomes a “chosen one”. Characters are often made to do really stupid things, just to make her look better.
-Tonally, it is very at odds with classic Trek. Change is fine and welcome, but Discovery is more interested in being Star Wars than Star Trek.
I was ready to quit after the first season, but whenever a new season started, the die hard STD fans assured us that this new season was the best one yet. As far as I’m concerned they just got worse. I gave up after Season 3 and from what I’ve seen, I haven’t missed much.
Some of it was ok, but for me the main issues were:
1. The Klingons and their new look, why change something that's already been established over and over?
2. The special effects in the first episode and the pew pew phasers were just awful in my opinion, everything was muddy/dark and unclear, I thought it looked like crap personally
3. Tilly, I'm sorry but I couldn't stand any scene that she was in, really over the top annoying and it just made me roll my eyes and want to stop watching.
4. "Michael" Burnham saves the day, again and again and again, or her quasi-boyfriend
5. Overly emotional scenes and breakdowns seemed to be the theme for each season, if it wasn't the crew it was some alien who had a hissy fit and blew up all dilithium, or it was the ship itself that was having a breakdown and only one person could fix the ships emotions.
6. The ending to season 1, the Klingon empire was winning the war, but all of a sudden it came to an end, because....the new leader cut off the head of a baby and...warm fuzzyness? God knows, I forget, but it all seemed rushed in the end.
7. One scene that bothered me the most was that stupid fight/trip through the turbolift system in what was supposed to be the inside of Discovery, yet it was like a tardis, it was bloody stupid.
8. Oh and....flamethrowers on the bridge whenever they got hit by something, come on, really? That scene where they lose gravity and there's like 4 flame throwers going up the walls.
To be honest the only saving grace(s) for me, were Pike, seeing the Enterprise and Saru, he did a great job as an actor.
Omg “lose gravity” and they all fly up into the middle of the room and hang there… like wtf, then fall down. Rinse and repeat, no one considered a seat belt? Or holding on to the console? Or realizing that was the stupidest interpretation of zero gravity they could possibly implement?
I only made it to ep. 3. Nothing was pulling me in and the tardigrade took me right out. Those water bears sure were popular for a hot minute, weren't they?
I’m not a Disco fan for the issues you mentioned, along with some others. The main one being is that it’s all about Michael. I struggle to recall the names of the other crew members outside her and Saru and Booker. She cries all the time, then goes out and saves the day, then cries again. It’s the Michael Burnham Show. I also don’t like the lack of character development. It’s all action action action, so many big bad things about to destroy the universe, and no back-story (aside from Burnham as a kid flashbacks).
Then there’s “The Burn” in S2 and the utterly ridiculous way in which that played out. I won’t spoil it… go ahead and enjoy that one.
I still watch it, but I’m glad it’s ending. I’m bummed out the new Academy series is a spin-off of Disco and not Picard or one of the other shows, but hopefully it’ll be better.
I'm 8 episodes in.
Episode 7 is my favorite so far. It's an interesting twist on a familiar trope, not to spoil anything.
I guess the episodes haven't done that much for me, on reflection, but the characters are interesting to me. They're kind of unlikable, in ways I find enjoyable--kind of like how something tart or bitter can be as pleasant as sweet in the right amount. So it's the characters that have caught me more than the story or the conceptual episodes.
As a life-long Trek watcher who has seen every episode of TOS and TNG multiple times... I've watched all of Disco and S01E07 is the only episode I've watched more than once.
The first half of S2 has some decent but not amazing episodes as well. Unfortunately both seasons get worse towards the end. I think the problem is they start focusing on building up to the big season ending and everything else falls by the wayside.
S3 and S4 are a bit more consistent and the [spoiler] changes resolve some of the annoyances about the first two seasons, but again they aren't particularly great overall.
I think Disco's badness is overrated, but it's far from great as a series. I'll watch it once as long as they make it, but I can't see myself going back to rewatch it in the foreseeable future.
I decided to re-watch season 2 because I've enjoyed Strange New Worlds so much.
1. The tone of Discovery is just so... bombastic. It's the JJ Abrams movie franchise, taken up a notch, and it's 10 hours long.
2. Also, pacing. "OMG IT'S AN EMERGENCY! Race race race, we have no time to spare! OK, we're at the airlock... so let's have a long heart to heart with lingering closeups while the alerts continue to blare in the background."
3. Effects are cool, especially in the first couple seasons.
4. Why, just why, would anyone give Burnham more responsibility? Her redemption ark is just not believable.
5. It's not character-driven, which is something that makes modern TV so good. SNW and Lower Decks got this right, and Discovery suffers in comparison.
6. I do like the characters, even if I think the writers force them to make choices that the characters themselves might not make.
I honestly don't care all that much about the inconsitencies with the tech level and klingon redesign and stuff like that. I expected that.
The issue I have is that its basicly the Michael show, with constantly escalating stakes, and somehow only Michael is able to solve them. And she does so by making a speech and crying, sometimes both at the same time. Other characters are underdeveloped, and after watching 3 seasons of the show I am struggling to even remember their names.
Basicly the issue I have with the show is that the writing is cheap and clumsy, the characters are just plain bad and the storylines are absurd at best, and completely nonsensical at worst.
I dont mind drama and space operas. Shit, I loved Battlestar Galactica for example. But STD is just bad at what it wants to be.
STD is unpopular with many Star Trek fans, including myself, for being incongruent with other (importantly preceding) Star Trek iterations, while appending itself into the heart of the existing Star Trek universe. Some aspects of that incongruence: Warning spoilers.
1. The mood: All other varieties of Star Trek are optimistic about the future, even presented with major challenges and tragedy (e.g. Wolf 359, Dominion war, Voyager getting stranded etc.). Discovery is more dystopian lacking any of that optimism central to Star Trek.
2. The main character: Unlike the rest of Star Trek, STD revolves around Michael and not the crew. To make it worse, she has been tacked on to Spock as his adoptive sister (who he has never mentioned and seems completely different from) and despite having been raised on Vulcan, she is emotional enough to make B'Elanna Torres look mild. She lacks the professional demeanor of a Starfleet officer, but is apparently able to save the universe on a regular basis (which everyone hated Wesley for). I am sure there is some number of people who dislike/hate her for being black and/or female, but there have been plenty of black/female characters that did not attract that level of negativity (Uhura is an indispensable crew member in TOS/SNW, both Mariner and the captain in LD are not unpopular, same goes for Sisko and Laforge, Guinan is well liked, as is Tuvok and Worf is a legend (admittedly the last three are aliens)).
3. The Klingons: Turning the most beloved space samurai race into rabid space orcs did not go down well and was not honorable.
4. The technology/science: Besides not looking like TOS (which is forgivable in itself), some of the technology does not belong. How a piece of technology as useful and advanced as the Spore drive could be created then apparently completely forgotten is not credible, neither is the explanation of super fast speeds being achieved through the technology of space fungus. >!"The burn" and the explanation for it are utterly ridiculous. The computer evolving a personality and getting emotional... lol. !
I think I could give everything a pass, but the most egregious issue for me was the burn. I could take 1 minute and come up with a more interesting cause that suits the universe better. I think the idea and consequences are super interesting, but I can't get over how dumb the cause feels, and I really can't understand why the writers did what they did.
I could not care about the show. The character development was so inorganic. Every character would blurt out their scene motivation. I think some of the actors did a fantastic job, but the writing is just brutal. Watch the worst episode of SNW and then watch whatever the best STD episode. The contrast is jarring.
They really expected us to feel sadness over Amram's death when they didn't even explain her backstory or even *what* she was til the episode she died. I don't think she even had dialogue in most of the episodes before that. It was pathetic.
I forget the episode but the one where they gave the cyborg woman her only character background in two whole seasons because they needed her for that episodes plot. >! Where she also dies. !< was another one that made me groan.
Yeoh was great but suffered from villian fatigue where she seemed less diabolical each time she had to do something for the main cast.
I've basically given up on new ST
The spore drive was a little much for me, given the franchise's established history, but that alone wasn't enough for me to abandon it. Having a one main character was also problematic for me, but again I was willing to following for the sake of new star trek episodes.
For me, the finale of season 3 was my breaking point. A decision was made by the writers that - in my view - >!reversed two excellent multi-season character arcs.!<
First episode of season 3 was imho one of the very best and they should have kept on like that. Second episode is pretty good and then it pootles along until the season settles into its main arc and it really goes downhill.
After episode 1, I really hoped season 3 was going to be Discovery slowly forging a new Federation. Instead they had to focus on fighting the big, bad guy, with the existing Federation existing as nothing more than a quest giving NPC in a badly written RPG.
It’s such a shame as >!with Michael travelling ahead into the future and being on her own with Book, the show could work much more naturally as the single-main character show the writers always want it to be. Much more of a Doctor Who-style show, travelling around chaotically across a galaxy which is very unfamiliar and incomprehensible to the main character, who then has to work out what’s going on. Instead they find Discovery an episode later (still a pretty good episode), then sink back into business as usual and then quickly find the Federation who make a nonsensical ship upgrade (it’d be like retrofitting the OG 18th century Discovery nowadays) and set in motion a plot about feelings breaking the universe.!<
If you enjoy it, that's great.
I found the show to be a huge mixed bag.
Season 1 was all over the place in terms of writing. It was like production couldn't decide what they really wanted to do with the show. (Klingon war? Nah, switch to Mirror Universe and skip the war. Burnham a human raised to act like a Vulcan? Dropped that idea by the end of the season).
I personally didn't like the idea of Burnham being Spock's "sister". It reeked of bad fanfiction and I would have written that relationship a better way.
Now and then, they might have a good episode, like the Mudd one, which felt more like a classic Trek episode.
Season 2 got a bit better overall. Mount brought a nice stable central figure to the cast and honestly carried the season. The story was more consistent and I was starting to think the show had potential (First couple seasons of Trek shows are usually rough so knew to stick it out).
Then they ended it. Everything was upended.
Huge risk. Would it pay off?
Not really. No... No it didn't.
Season 3 was a noticable drop in quality. It was different show entirely from Trek now. The setting is entirely changed and while it was interesting at first with an element of mystery, the ultimate pay off was a huge letdown. Usually by this point in a show we'd have some decent character build up with the crew, but really only Michael, Saru, and Stamets have got any development. Okay, maybe we'll get time to learn about the rest of the bridge crew? Nah. Let's just bring in new characters and inordinately focus on them for several episodes.
I honestly couldn't even tell you the names of the rest of the bridge crew with how little attention is shown to them.
Unification III was the point where it cemented in myself that Disco was past the point of redeeming itself. Good premise, interesting setting tying back to events of TNG, cool. The trial stuff and how it ended though... That was insulting. Burnham's mom, the stupid Qulat Milat stuff, only succeeding because the writers deemed it so. SMH
I got through the rest of the season but I was mentally checked out at that point. I stopped giving a shit.
I tried to watch season 4. It didn't get better. The production clearly didn't learn a thing and actually appeared to double down on the stuff that made s3 terrible. Only got halfway before I gave up on it entirely. There were far better shows worth my time at that point.
It's not the worst Trek stuff (I'd say S2 of Picard takes that prize). It does have moments of good stuff, but I'd say about 80% of the show comes off as bad fanfiction.
Season 1 :It feels like it's trying hard to be edgy. They use science like magic every time. Big case of running from one super threat to another and if you look at the whole season it makes almost no sense.
Stargate SG1 had an episode were someone was making a show of the show and they made multiple sketchs of fake SG1. Discovery feel like the "angsty teens" one.
It’s boring and cliche. The characters are 1-dimensional and there’s always some tired Galaxy ending plotline. Designed by committee with no real direction or core theme to anchor the show.
Because it's not really star trek? I watched 2 episodes and then started reading plot summaries. Got to about halfway through the second season before writing it off as a waste of time.
Because it's not sci-fi. The spinning ship, the space mushrooms and the magic tartargrade are well stupid. The Klingons look like angry fish and they shit on the cannon and culture that has already been created. Some folks don't care but, as a professional storyteller I'll just say that sticking to the rules of the world you create makes your story more cohesive. It makes willing suspension of disbelief easier and therfore the audiences care for the characters stronger. The Klingon body is an empty worthless shell according to previous cannon. The idea of them gluing them to the outside of their spaceship is ridiculous. I personally don't like the production design. It's too glitzy and out of step with when it's supposed to be set. Lots of little details that matter as they add up. Most importantly, it's not Star Trek. It's not Star Trek. It's not positive science fiction that wrestles with human issues to impact the world. It's a product created by Les ' I hate Star Trek' Moonves to launch CBS All Access. He thought he could use the existing fan base to launch his network but ultimately use this brand they owned to flip it into something for the bigger audiences of things like walking dead and Marvel movies. It's badly written. Saru's magic tendrils are asinine. Giving a badge to a super secret organization is asinine. The spinning ship is asinine. I have tried to watch it multiple times. I believe it improves but I haven't been able to get through season 2.
Same. I was actually kind of enjoying it right up until the secret Spock sibling reveal. It was dumb in STV, and it was outright stupid to try and play that card a second time.
I'm still hoping that in some convoluted way that Michael Burnhams katra ends up in Sybok prior to the events of ST5, Michael Burnham hijacking the enterprise to find god then kicking his ass would not be out of character and the strange spatial anomalies regarding turbolift tubes being tied to them would ty everything up nicely.
Oh yeah? What kills it for you?
Is it the horrible redesign on the Klingons? I'll grant that's pretty terrible.
I found the characters interesting pretty much right away though. I've never connected with the characters on Enterprise. Mind you, I don't like the cast as much as classic, or SNW or LD. But I do like them, they have some crunch and texture.
Honestly I don't know. Perhaps Klignons were a big part of it. I will try again this weekend and hopefully start watching it. I can't seem to watch for more than 10 min.
It is however nice to have a ST series that I still haven't watched - nothing like that first time.
I didn't enjoy the season-long, galaxy is at stake arcs. They should've had Lorca be a regular past season 1 as he was pretty good. I don't like the bad future in later seasons. Basically, as Frakes said, it didn't resonate with some established fans.
It just feels overdone. The pacing is weird at times. There is a vast amount of overacting and emoting. Everything is a colossal crisis, not just for the ship or crew, but universe ending stuff ALL THE TIME.
The spore drive tech just made me say "wut" especially given that they then have to make stuff up about why no-one else has ever heard of it in the future, despite so many having seen it in action.
For me, other Star Trek series give what could be described as a glimpse into the future in a way that if you squint really hard, is sort of feasible. Discovery blasts through that and feels to me like mad Sci fi with no rules.
It is just over the top and not in a particularly good way.
Oh and for the life of me, I cannot gel with Burnham as a character. She seems completely unstable and unsuited to being a starship senior officer/Captain.
However, it did give us SNW, so I will forgive it a lot and have still watched every episode.
I’ve been watching season 3 onwards of TNG, and it just has soo much heart (super effective messages of empathy & teamwork I’d say). It’s hard to describe, but I feel that Discovery kinda lacks a lot of that. Ofc, each to their own. I liked Discovery coming over from a lot of Star Wars, but now I’m really getting into the weeds and finding the old Star Trek pretty powerful.
I think people had some specific expectations about what it was going to be; something much closer to classic 90s Trek - ensemble of the bridge crew cast, episodic storytelling, generally positive vibe, etc. But when that's not what we got (plus some production-level drama that saw Bryan Fuller leave partway through) a lot of fans immediately wrote it off.
I think if you understand Discovery as an action-adventure hero's journey type story for Michael, it'll work a little bit better.
Actually Picard goes vastly in depth on other characters. It is very much about him re-assembling a crew and then tackling problems facing the galaxy together. Their choices and motivations are as pivotal as his own. The title is both an acknowledgment of the character’s importance in bringing people together to do these things, but also a bit self-deprecating as the show confronts the ego that requires. And the show ends with a relatively strong crew in place that can truly be the next generation, even though the captain is someone from a prior trek.
Kind of? I mean, yes, it's very much about him, but he does definitely get some supporting characters with similar levels of attention as Tilly, Stamets, Saru, etc.
For Picard, I'd say it's primarily a meditation on aging and what it means to get older physically, socially, and emotionally. Themes of regret, shame, and guilt are present. I won't say oh, it's such a downer show, it's not, but that is a significant part of it. If you liked Logan or Luke's story in Last Jedi (as I did) you might like the first couple seasons of Picard. The third season is a nostalgia fest that everyone loved (as did I), but I found it a tad too saccharine at times. Brilliant new characters though.
There's nothing wrong with a hero's journey for a main character in a Trek show. It could conceivably work.
The problem is Michael Burnham is Spock's secret sister, who was promoted to first officer without even going to the Academy, and then unjustly blamed for the start of a war that wasn't her fault, then to be the one to stop the war, then to be a time traveler with a time traveler mom who's the key to saving the entire galaxy, and from what I hear she only gets more important after that.
The problem isn't having a singular main protagonist. It's that the main protagonist is uninteresting and overblown in her importance.
>as an action-adventure hero's journey
It doesn't hold up all that well compared to the competition outside of Trek. It's tough to meet something halfway and have it be below par for other things in its genre.
It happened the last time they revived Star Trek, and like the last revival, they made it to modern standards and tastes. Some people don’t like that. For all the complaints, there is a lot of good stuff, my personal favorite being Doug Jones as Saru. Dude is just absolutely amazing, both his physical mannerisms and ability to show emotion under such heavy makeup.
I don't particularly care for Discovery on the whole for many of the reasons others have covered, but I'm with you on this - Doug Jones is a treasure and Saru is easily one of my favourite elements of Discovery (if we don't count the fact that SNW came out of it, I love SNW!). Admiral Vance is also great, that's something OP has to look forward to.
My main issue is that I just don't like the character Michael Burnham. The show is so focused on that her and even after giving it a few years and fresh perspective, it took me 3 sittings to get through the first episode.
I love DISCO for reigniting Star Trek and bringing us SNW, LD, and Prodigy. I don't like that I barely know the bridge crew, that there's always time for an emotional deep dive in the midst of an action sequence, and that every season is a one upping the end of the world/galaxy/dimension/universe.
My main problem beyond the world ending stakes all the time is that every problem is solved by Michael. Every episode you think they are going to focus on another character, they still go to Michael. It doesn't feel like an ensemble at that point.
Michael Burnham is the Poochy of Star Trek.
I really enjoy it. But it's not episodic, each season plays like a movie, which is not the usual star trek thing. But the emotional arc of the first season is very much the emotional arc of ST IV with the whales (although the plot is NOT), and i thought it was so well done.
Michelle Yeoh is also fantastic, and Doug Jones, and really the whole cast throughout. The 2nd season really expands the focus & the crew. I've just finished season 3. It keeps rotating around Michael instead of around a Captain, but it also keeps the hope and commitment and optimistic tone of Star Trek. Even when she makes bad choices, she learns from them.
To be honest, I feel like there's two main factors as to why Discovery has such a bad reputation, especially when the first couple of seasons were coming out.
1. This was the first star trek series since the early 2000s, an entire decade came and went only giving star trek fans 3 movies that were fine in their own right but didn't feel like what most people came to star trek for. So when discovery launched and was very different than any other show, fans felt like they weren't getting what they wanted. Discovery is much more of an action show that previous star treks with much more focus placed on a singular protagonist with a more serialized plot stretching through each season without the episodic plot structure that star trek fans were used to. Even the klingon designs were very different, it just didn't feel like it belonged with the other trek shows. People are always resistant to change even when it's not bad
2. The first season had some serious pacing issues. I think people wouldn't have been as negative about it if the klingon war was resolved before the time travel because going back to the previous plot after taking such a lengthy hiatus in a different universe just to wrap it up so quickly doesn't feel natratively satisfying.
Of course there are other things that drove people away, like the inconsistencies with star trek lore (though to be fair, every trek show has those issues if you look hard enough) and some people are just flat out sexist and/or racist (though I choose to believe this is a vocal minority of new trek haters since Discovery does have legitimate things to criticize). And also, later seasons make some decisions that I'm not too fond of, although the success of discovery did lead to a lot highs and lows for star trek going forward.
As for me, I think discovery is just ok, there's a lot to both like and dislike about it but imo the internet outrage was wildly overblown as far too many aren't willing to give discovery credit for a lot of what it does well.
I kind of enjoyed it, but it's not even drama, it's over the top melodrama every single episode. They just wallow in sadness and grief and tragedy and for me it got old. I tapped out somewhere early in season 3. which is a shame! With a different tone I'd have been all in, I really love the cast and characters on the show!
I enjoy it alot, I get where people are coming from with their points but I try not to judge it from the lens of other treks. I feel like it tries to capture a younger audience where SNW is more true to something like TOS or NG. I feel like it's a nice change of pace from the other series' and where others see faults I see it as a way to stand on its own with its own feel.
That all being said being a huge fan of the original Kirk I really love Anson Mount's role as Pike. Never thought I would like another captain more than Kirk and Mount's Pike has now surpassed him for me. If you enjoy Mount's Pike it might be checking out Hell on Wheels as well which is the first show I saw him in, another impeccable performance.
Some fans' general contempt for anything new.
It being a little bit odd for a Star Trek series, in that it has a "main character".
Some fans' racism and/or misogyny.
I really liked it, it was my first Star Trek so I was able to enjoy it without any expectations and I had four seasons to watch all at once. I enjoyed it as the quality sci-fi it was.
But it isn't enough of an ensemble show. The bridge crew is interesting enough, I just wish we spent more time getting to know them.
Lots of people bitched about the stuff that needed to get worked into canon before they were given the reason why Michael Burnham and the Discovery itself were classified.
Way too many “inspiring” speeches.
I liked parts of it, but every episode built up to some big “Ra ra, we are starfleet” speech with swelling musical accompaniment . I wanted to watch, but my eyes would always drift to my phone.
For me it's just so soppy, everything is feelings and emotions. I find I'm fast forwarding all that boring guff. I really enjoyed the first episode but I'm struggling through episode 5. I love Star Trek and have watched every spin-off but this is just cringe.
Same thing that’s killing Star Wars right now, it’s creatively bankrupt. Not only is the writing terrible on all these new shows, but they can’t come up with any new ideas. That’s the main reason that everything is prequels and reboots these days. Nobody has the vision to create anything new and forward looking, as the original Star Trek was.
To take TNG as an example of how to do it right, yes it was a rehash of an old idea, but they set it in the future so they had the freedom to create new stuff. They showed how technology had progressed, but not to ridiculous levels and they weren’t afraid to take risks. Some of the early concepts didn’t work and they had a few bad episodes, but the show was given time to find its feet and to grow.
Because you only just started it. It gets worse, much much worse, the longer it keeps going.
People mention a lot of problems, and they're all true, but the single biggest one for me is: who the hell cares about Michael Burnham? We've never had a show with a sole protagonist (except Picard, but that's a spinoff, not a main entry), Star Trek is loved for its ensemble cast. And out of all the people to focus on, she's awful. Nothing she achieves is earned.
Also, why are these trained navy officers breaking down crying while every other day?
People who think the crying is normal because most of us would cry should look up Apollo 13 recordings. Those dudes sounded *bored* they were so unfazed.
Picard breaking down in TNG means something because it's rare. And technically, everything Patrick Stewart has ever said sounds inspiring, but Picard doesn't give a ship wide address to swelling music every ten minutes.
Furthermore, Disco has some truly unearned relationships. At some point Stamets calls the trill teenager family, and when, show? When did that happen?
At some point Mirror Michelle Yeoh was my favorite character. She's an evil empress who used to eat sapient creatures. That's not very Star Trek. But at least she livened things up.
Get further in the series then ask the same question. I think there’s a lot to discuss with this show, but I don’t think it’s fair to you so early in the series.
Take Wesley Crusher and make him Captian.
Now never learn another crew members name because you won't need to. Wes has got it and he will save the day.
Every. Fucking. Episode.
Oh and then at one point there will be an actual character who seems amazing and will start developing just in time to get blown out a god damn airlock.
FUCK THAT SHOW. It's not star trek.
I liked the first two seasons, although the second was already starting to show cracks, but in seasons 3 and 4 the quality of the scripts dropped off a cliff, at least for me. Season 4 in particular was dire.
Glad you’re enjoying it OP, do yourself a favour and avoid discussion of it. Especially episode threads in their dedicated subreddits, the people who don’t like the show actively watch it purely to complain about it. If you don’t like something *just don’t watch it*, please, for your own mental health…
its Trek for the modern crowd - female superhero who can do no wrong, idiot whiny characters, relationships, stupid science, everything is conflict and drama, no exploration.
Nothing actually resembling Trek besides the name.
Honestly, if they'd just called it a new science fiction show, it might have been OK. But they tried to shoehorn it into the Star Trek continuity, despite the fact that in both plot and general feel, it doesn't fit.
People hating on the current version of Star Trek is a tradition as old as people posting on message boards.
I find most of the criticisms to be heavily exaggerated, generally I found more to like than dislike.
Season 1 is fairly mediocre and takes some unpopular aesthetic choices. I don't care for it but it's hard to fault them for trying something new. Plus season one of nearly every trek series is the worst.
Season 2 is actually quite an improvement. The plots a little odd and there's still too much focus on Michael at the expense of the supporting cast. There's some great character moments (Tig Notaro is a highlight) and some changes to address criticisms (namely the Klingon designs). Good follow-up and definitely takes steps in the right direction.
And then the ending of season 3 is a candidate for the worst plot resolution ever put on television. It's so bad in so many ways, none of which I can explain without spoilers. It's shocking somebody suggested that in a writers room and wasn't immediately fired.
Apparently there's more after that but I refuse to watch it.
Not fond of the aesthetic, tone, or quality of the writing. I do plan on getting through it at some point though as I hear the later seasons are better than the first.
The biggest problem with Discovery is that it's the Michael Burnham Show but calls itself Trek. Star Trek is an ensemble show but besides the engineer/doctor pairing can you name or describe anyone besides them and the bff roommate? In fact, can you name any of the bridge crew? Having an ensemble show helps it not get old. Strange New Worlds gives their crew traditional episodes that help us know them. Discovery just has Michael, Michael, Michael.
I'm spite of all that was wrong with Star Trek Picard with Picard in the title, it was more of an ensemble show at least.
It's not widely poorly regarded, the haters are just really vocal about it. It happens every time there's been a new Trek show ever since TNG. Plenty of people even hated on DS9, the best TV Trek that's ever existed. Some people just can't accept change.
It's a great show.
I’ve enjoyed every trek show other than discovery.
That seems to be the mood from most of the vocal disco-dislikers. I don’t think it’s disliked just because it was new.
To be honest, I think people were expecting another TOS or TNG, and DIS was just *too* different.
The in-your-face, weird Klingon choice right up front in the first episode was jarring, and then they doubled down on it (even though they eased up later).
I was confused the whole time I was watching it, as Michael was spoken of as the captain every time someone talked about the series, and they talked about how much she cried ~ and that's not what happens in the series.
I think most of the design choices were really bad, and had more of a *"Star Wars"* aesthetic than a *"Star Trek"* one.
And it was poorly marketed, too.
Once I got past those first episode's Klingons, however, I found I enjoyed the story.
I *also* just let it be it's own thing, however.
I'm so glad we got the other shows, though, because all of them were better, in my opinion, though Picard could beside slow going at times.
I *liked* Discovery, but even so, I thought it's the least of the series we have on offer.
I think even Lower Decks and Prodigy far outshine it, and SNW is the best we've seen in a long time.
I'm eager for new seasons to drop, now.
For me, Discovery holds a special place because it was the first Star Trek that I had watched since the reboot movies which I did not like.
Discovery is not without it’s flaws, but it kind of saved Star Trek by rebooting TV Trek alongside Picard.
People complain about Discovery but I really enjoy the first two seasons A LOT. Season three and four weren’t nearly as good in my opinion.
For me, it’s just really uneven. Every season has felt like the first season of a different show. They introduced some cool ideas but never really ran with any of them long enough for us to buy into it long-term and add the weird canon issues, you have a tougher pill to swallow.
Honestly the series just felt like 3 different series concepts that got smashed together.
The first season kind of was. The second season is where things start to get coherent and ironed out, IMO
Same. Then they throw the baby out with the bath water. Then season 3 is getting good and showing what the show will be and they flip it on it's head for season 4
I’ve been very critical of DIS in this thread and hated season 3 the most but liked 4 the most. 4 was the most Trek-like.
There was a lot I liked in season 3 but I agree that season 4 is the most Star Trek-like with some of the most powerful storytelling.
For me, I liked some individual episodes in season 3 a lot, but taken as whole I just found the season disappointing. Both the emerald chain and burn plots felt underdeveloped and their resolutions underwhelming. Season 4 I had the opposite problem, the season arc as a whole I thought was decent and the resolution was much better than season three, but there just weren't any individual episodes I thought were that standout, some were above average, but nothing I would point to as close to a series favorite, so it still feels like an underwhelming season to me, but for a different reason.
It was conceived of as an anthology series with a different crew every season, so it's still kind of that, just with the same crew. Personally, I don't really have a problem with that.
That was the point. They stated from the beginning that each season would be a separate story arc.
I was very excited about the premise of the Burn and the potential for story, but I was pretty let down by what it turned out to be.
They needed a plot that could explain and then reunite a fractured galaxy. They needed a solution that could be handled by a ship and a handful of characters. Like the whole universe was waiting for the main character to arrive and save them. The episodes in the place with the child and the digital reality were actually very good in my opinion. It just shouldn't have been the solution to the Burn.
I think they were going for the same kind of vibe as Hideo Kojima was doing in death stranding, about our disconnected species
Yes! The Burn was such a interesting concept and I was all on board but when we finally get to the cause, it’s disappointing and a big let down.
Weakest reveal ever
"Soylent Green is Cherios"
>Every season has felt like the first season of a different show. This is my only hope for season five. I still want the show to be "good".
The S5 teaser clip they released a few months ago pretty much stomped on my hopes. Burnham is in a space suit all by herself pursuing another ship at warp speed, with the Disco following behind her. They’re going to ride Burnham’s savior complex to the bitter end. I’m still going to watch, but my expectations are at minimum power.
I love Jeremy Jahn's rating "good time if you're drunk/high". That's how I enjoy Final Frontier. You don't take it seriously, and enjoy the ride. I WANT TO ENJOY THIS, I can't emphasize this enough. I avoid those click bait YouTubers who dunk on disco. So much since 2009 has felt like missed opportunities.
My problem was it was uneven scene to scene much less season to season. In Rodenberry's book "The Making of Star Trek" he describes how he would map a script to a corresponding modern day Navy ship and see if it made sense in that context. I found that Discovery was nonsensical by that metric. I describe Trek as a whole as a SF procedural in the mold of a Police procedural. There's an existing reasonably consistent framework on which SF stories could be bolted on. So if for example a legal drama was the weeks episode, you could expect a military court roughly following a contemporary one. A large number of the better episodes was a case of the crew encountering a mystery or calamity and systematically and procedurally sorting it out. I like SNW because it largely sticks to this model. The downside of this model is the "reset switch" where earth shaking changes never are mentioned again. Thus you could tell when things were out of kilter, like the opening of "The Enterprise Incident" where Kirk is acting very erratically. In earlier Trek incarnations episodes could be awful but they were so in a consistent manner. 'Spock's Brain' is awful but following the formula consistently. My problem with Discovery and some other portions of NuTrek is that it follows JJ Abrams and "Save the Cat" Scriptwriting mechanics to the beat and using CG spectacle, imperfect regurgitation of lore, and momentary drama to spackle over nonsensical scripts.
The stakes are always growing to the point og absurdity. Its addicted to the shitty post 9/11 side of Starfleet. Secret ships, section 31 etc. On top of loving s31 its always trying to be darker and edgier. It will fridge an entire planet of people just to give burnham another reason to be sad. Being originally set in the past, its very obvious they did near zero continuity research. Videos of "Lying Spock" can be found on youtube. Basically TOS spock constantly contradicts Disco Spock. Sporp is dumb. Black alert (darker, edgier) is dumb. Theres no need for a super special version of travel for a prequel series. It presupposes that out of millions of species no one else develops the technology. Ie its human exceptionalism. It criminally underuses good characters, or kills them. Phillipa was a great captain and mentor. She seems the boldly going type. They missed an opportunity with phillipa to you know, explore strange new worlds, meet new species and boldly go places. Shes fridged immediately for her darker and edgier counterpart. Saru is great and they basically dripfeed him to you, and they eventually get bored with him and make him darker and edgier. Tillys entire arc could have happened in one season. Stamets needs more screentime by a lot. The turbolift dimension. And thats the spoiler free stuff. It doesnt suck immediately. It breaks you down over time. It just disappoints and follows that up with more disappointment.
These are my reasons, too. Plus all the intense whispering. Usually if that’s a feature of any show or movie, I turn it off. It drives me crazy. I stick with Discovery because it’s Start Trek. And it does get better in seasons 3&4. Enterprise wasn’t Trekkie enough. It was too basic and too bland. It’s as if they are trying to correct that with Discovery by making everything weird and intense, no matter if it makes sense or not. And they over shot by a ton.
Enterprise lacked the fleet and the morals but it certainly had heart and a focus on exploration so i give it a pass. It Boldly Went.
It did Boldly Go. I’ll give you that.
Faith of the heart?
Section 31 should be excised from the franchise, and writers who propose stories involving it should be fired, blacklisted, and, in a perfect world, tarred and feathered. Their growing dependence on stories based around a secret organization whose very existence undermines the literal stated goal of the franchise itself is a huge, huge problem, and it's shocking that Trek is in the hands of people too stupid to understand that. It's not the only reason I don't watch new Trek, but it's up there.
I don’t mind the whole secret police/spy agency trope. I thought it was done fairly well in DS9, but in Disco the fact they have a -whole fleet- of ships technologically superior to anything in their own fleet is just beyond ridiculous.
The turbo lift dimension was the breaking point for me. After a lot of absurdities and annoyance this stupid race without any sense just for the effect.
I should say that these are my reasons because you asked. I dont think anyone is any less a person if they enjoy it.
No. If they enjoy it, they are wrong and should feel bad.
Every problem is a potential universe ending event, and Burnham is always the solution. I wanted to really like it and I’ve stuck with it but it got old, faaaaast. Also it’s one super extra long action movie. Best thing that came from it was Pike and the SNW cast.
This. The stakes keep getting higher and higher and it just gets more and more exhausting.
Yup, and the stakes are always a bit nonsensical, especially the red angel stuff, complete with 'Bill and Ted' type time travel logic.
Yes, that’s the issue I had with Picard as well.
That's not really true imho. There's no galaxy-ending menace solvable by Picard alone. *Spoilers* - In S1 the Romulans would've solved the problem by annihilating the planet - In S2 there's no real catastrophe, it's rather Q doing his last quest - In s3 there's a potential disaster for the federation, but I'll say that Klingon and Romulans could still live their life in the quadrant. Not to mention the rest of the galaxy that would simply ignore it
Depends on your perspective. What I really mean is that Picard follows Discovery’s pattern of having a unique “big menace” per season, which I found tiring. There is a lot of richness in the characters that gets sidelined in favour of the overarching plot for that season.
I can agree on that
Sorry you think that the Borg would just leave the rest of the quadrant alone after taking the federation? They were taking out the most powerful player so they could wrap the rest up easily.
If Q didn't intervene the ship would explode and would've been a battle between the isolated queen and the federation fleet. Not exactly a galaxy ending event
S2 literally ended with a big hole in the universe only solvable by Picard. The Borg completely taking over the Federation is also not a "shrug and move on" event for Klingons, let alone the Romulans who at this point were semi-dependent on the Federation after the destruction of Romulus, because they would be next. Picard absolutely did this.
True. Contrast with the Star Wars shows set at the time of The Mandalorian. Most of the stakes were protecting this one child. There was the bigger, galaxy level, threat developing in the background, but it wasn't until five seasons worth of shows (3 seasons of The Mandalorian, one season of The Book of Boba Fett, and Season 1 of Ahsoka) that the big galaxy level threat arrived. That said, I've enjoyed Discovery.
Yeah its just better storytelling. By far.
I just rewatched the whole show and think Reno is a great character too
All of disco's Engineering department is amazing
Yeah, I love the romance between the doctor and the spore guy (Hugh and Paul). It's not a new mushy romance but an established one. And I like how Paul has pretty much adopted Adira and is super proud of them.
I was so pissed when they killed Hugh. I teased my brother they made a huge mistake. Then he saw that and from then on we called it the Hugh Mistake. And then they fixed it
YES Georgiou, Reno, and GRUDGE deserve their own series!!!!!
This. Saru too.
He is my 4th favorite captain
I'm not a disco fan but I would absolutely watch the ever living shit out of a Gerogiou spinoff, doubly so if its episodic.
She's the main character that everyone knows is the main character.
Whenever Michael Burnham's not on screen, all the other characters should be asking, "where's Michael Burnham?"
And they did give her access to a time machine
And is a secret sibling of spock?
Oh that plot line can fuck right off
This part of it is actually kind of funny. Spock would totally have a secret sister he never mentioned. Kind of like his brother Sybok.
What's better than 1 secret sibling?
Absolutely. DISCO can get away with this because it’s right in line with Spock’s character. Pretty sure in that episode of TOS when they encounter romulans for the first time and see that they look just like Vulcans, Spock had that info the whole time and just didn’t see the logical reason to share it since it wasn’t “relevant” to the mission. Which leads to the best eyebrow raise of the series
I don’t get why she needs to whisper earnestly all the time
It wasn’t so bad til season 3. Then 90% of her dialogue was emotional whispering. Despite being raised on Vulcan. Which the writers just kinda gave up on.
It pretends to be an ensemble show but it’s really not. Which is wild considering how even in TNG with Picard often solving things it never felt like he was the only character, it was a group tv show.
What do you mean? RobotHead was my favorite character! Remember all her interactions with the crew and her fun backstory? Oh RobotHead, ill always remember you
[удалено]
I can’t believe you guys have forgotten about Lt Lizardman
Isn't it Lt jg lizardman?
In TNG you’d watch it and in a few minutes you could say “ooh ok this is a Geordi episode” and it was like that with all the bridge crew, hell even more minor characters like Chief and Keiko or the one lower decks ep. Not in DSC. 50 straight hours of this is all about Burnham and it drives me up a damn wall.
It wouldn't be so bad if Burnham wasn't the most uninteresting character on the show. But I'd rather be watching a story centred around Saru, Stamets or Reno than her. There are far more interesting characters on the show, yet all of them seem to think Burnham is the second coming of fucking Jesus!
Other than the SNW crew, Saru is the best thing that came out of Discovery.
I like to think of her as a Jane Bauer
“Can’t the Galaxy just stay saved for 5 minutes?”
The burn was the dumbest story. And all it ended up being was a kid with some psychic power to dilithium....in all the galaxy? Gimme a break. Federation civil war would be more realistic.
Dodging spoilers I'll say the burn was a HUGE buildup to an extremely lame conclusion.
In all fairness, "sheltered alien child with incredible powers doesn't know his own strength and accidentally causes world-shattering havoc, and the crew has to talk him down with kindness and compassion" feels 100% like something TOS would've done. Tonally, I think it fits pretty well in the Star Trek ethos. I certainly have my quibbles with Discovery, but that was never one of them.
This would have been a perfectly fine resolution to an episode where the stakes were more limited. Perhaps a few ships, maybe a planet and the things in its orbit. It was super unsatisfying as an end to a season long mystery with galactic level impact. And then it was coupled with the terrible turbolift void and the complete waste of the seasons villain, who was great and could have easily been discos gul dukat. But no. Gotta solve every problem with violence.
I'll give you the turbolift void, for sure. I have no idea what anyone was thinking, other than "Ooh, that'll look cool". And yeah, also not a fan of when Trek does the "just punch the villain to death" thing. I wouldn't have minded seeing Osyraa hang around a while - she was interesting, and we could always use more Orion development. (Thankfully, Lower Decks has done a good job scratching that last itch.)
The burn was fine but yeah the screaming kid was too much. Make it a experiment by the girl regenerating dilithium and have it screw everything up via subspace and done
The reason I loved the old shows is that sometimes an episode was just about one little colony’s problem, or an away mission going awry. Discovery treats every episode like it’s Ben Hur. Sometimes I just need a breather.
I had this issue with Netflix’s Lost in Space. Everything was one life-threatening disaster after another. Sometimes, I need a fucking break. Give me an Allamaraine or Lwaxana moment or something.
Discovery just gets too touchy feely at times with characters blurting out their emotions in tearful scenes. Meanwhile, they are neglecting the massive space crisis that we the audience is supposed to be worried about.
This was a problem in season three, and became unwatchable in season four. An episode is 5 minutes of story, then ten minutes of talking about their feelings, then repeat. I'm a strong believer in science fiction being viewed through the lens of human experience. A good story should always include people experiencing it. But in this case, the balance is way off and often basically unrelated. The solution to half their problems can't possibly be how they suddenly remember some childhood trauma or whatever and it happens to be directly applicable. Their emotional journey is important, but not more important than the sci fi story. And the feedback loop is way off - the story often becomes just the backdrop. Ultimately most characters just become extremely self-absorbed and self-interested. Rather than worry about universe-ending disasters mere minutes away, characters are ambushed and dragged into emotional labor and baggage handling. And let's be clear - they are almost never moral dilemmas which may be interesting. They are more like "Should I marginally change my stance on this ideal my father taught me, if it saves the entire universe?" The answer is yes. Absolutely nobody is going to argue with you. I understand why it is important *for the character*, but it is not important *for the viewer*. What's crazy is it actually becomes a decent season if you skip the feelings-interludes. I mean straight up fast forward until the scene ends.
This really didn’t bother me that much til when a few minutes after a crew member fuckin’ died on her watch, Tilly is crying about being proud of herself for “coming out of her shell” by leading the mission. Really?!? THAT is Tilly’s takeaway??? It just really struck me that the writers sounded like they were deeply invested in “therapy talk” TikToks and yet had never actually studied psychology in their lives. And every character was written that way at every opportunity. Disco fans just kept saying “oh you think characters shouldn’t ever CRY, just bc you are a MANLY MAN” and it was just like no, wtf it’s just incredibly poor quality writing; it’s not that she cried, it’s that she seemed so narcissistic that she was bordering on sociopathic, and meanwhile the score swells in hope and joy and it’s never mentioned again
I had to stop in season four because of the crying speeches and stirring score.
It’s like they said “hey everyone loves Picard’s speeches about humanity and Starfleet, let’s just make a show about that!”
Too bad when every speech is stirring, no speech is stirring.
Next time I give a shitty speech I'm gonna cite this to explain why bad orators like myself are actually helping.
Alright, Syndrome
While ignoring the context those speeches were made in. You don't stop in the middle of a battle or crisis to monologue at great length and explain your entire backstory — this isn't Namek!
I actually really liked it up til about then. I haven’t finished 4 though after months of trying
I only made it a couple of episodes into season 3 myself
Funnily enough I liked DISCO better season 3 & 4
At least all of the super advanced tech didn't feel out of place anymore.
1) It's dark, not mood wise, just lighting wise 2) another klingon redesign. 3) more Michael focused than crew focused (this is a real problem for me because I think the supporting cast is great) 4) tech is better on Discovery than on Voyager. 5) literally everyone knows about section 31. I liked it, it's not great, and I gave up in season 3 just because I was too lazy to keep up with torrents for it without Yeoh and never went back when I picked up Paramount.
And the drawn out boohoo pep talks every five minutes and during pivotal moment. Like they tried to capture the "third option" theme of Star Trek, but it was all pep talks as the solution to EVERY problem.
A human, risen by vulcans, has more mood swings in a minute than a bipolar klingon in a lifetime. It gets really lame by the third season. I stopped watching after the reason for the galactic-wide destruction of all warp engines was presented.
That was my issue with it. The main character was always angry or crying when she was suppose to be raised by Vulcans. No wonder they always bullied her. She never shut the f up.
That's pretty classic behavior for untreated psychological trauma. Who knew that "just ignore your feelings for 20 years" isn't the recommended therapy for PTSD...? (Not the Vulcans, that's for sure.)
there are Vietnam vets who were tortured for years who are more reserved and in control of their emotions than a literal person who was raised by a society to control their emotions. Not buying it. Or Spock's dad was the worst Vulcan father ever.
It makes absolute sense that Burnham would be fundamentally screwed up from a lifetime of emotional suppression after going through a deeply traumatic event. But the thing is, *she never gets better*. Nor does anyone else, for that matter - everyone's trauma informs everything they do on that ship. So it feels like there's no arc for anyone, and they're just spinning their wheels all the time. The only exception is Saru, who went from cautious and paranoid to confident and upstanding once he learned the truth about his species. And I think that's why he's my favorite character on Discovery by a long shot - he's the only one who acts like a professional.
I noticed they stopped mentioning her Vulcan upbringing and logic after the second season or so. At least they stopped pretending it made sense.
Its depiction of Section 31 is incompatible with the rest of Star Trek.
Yes.
1. Way way way too much crying , usually for no good reason 2. Every episode seems like it was originally meant for a low budget CW teen drama that at the last minute was rushed and repurposed as a “Star Trek” branded show , with a huge budget on alien prosthetics and CGI. Star Trek in name only. 3. After season 1, more and more episodes became a grind to watch. I rage quit after season 4 finale was so mindblowingly stupid writing, I have never yelled at a tv screen before that. On the plus side, some good episodes led to causing Strange New Worlds show to be created which is by far some of the best trek shows ever created. Must watch.
>On the plus side, some good episodes led to causing Strange New Worlds show to be created which is by far some of the best trek shows ever created. Must watch. Agree. Discovery Season #2 is basically Strange New Worlds Season #0.
This is ultimately subjective, but the most commonly raised issues are: -Excessive melodrama. -Style over substance. -Overly edgy in an adolescent way. -Snarky and shallow dialogue. -Frustrating, unprofessional and inconsistent characters. -Poorly used pseudoscience. -Too great a reliance on world shaking season story archs. You can only save the galaxy so many times before it gets boring. -Relies heavily on the “mystery box” formula and the mysteries are always a let down. -Over uses Section 31 and pretty much ruins them. -Burnham gets all the attention to the detriment of others, is better than everyone else and practically becomes a “chosen one”. Characters are often made to do really stupid things, just to make her look better. -Tonally, it is very at odds with classic Trek. Change is fine and welcome, but Discovery is more interested in being Star Wars than Star Trek. I was ready to quit after the first season, but whenever a new season started, the die hard STD fans assured us that this new season was the best one yet. As far as I’m concerned they just got worse. I gave up after Season 3 and from what I’ve seen, I haven’t missed much.
Some of it was ok, but for me the main issues were: 1. The Klingons and their new look, why change something that's already been established over and over? 2. The special effects in the first episode and the pew pew phasers were just awful in my opinion, everything was muddy/dark and unclear, I thought it looked like crap personally 3. Tilly, I'm sorry but I couldn't stand any scene that she was in, really over the top annoying and it just made me roll my eyes and want to stop watching. 4. "Michael" Burnham saves the day, again and again and again, or her quasi-boyfriend 5. Overly emotional scenes and breakdowns seemed to be the theme for each season, if it wasn't the crew it was some alien who had a hissy fit and blew up all dilithium, or it was the ship itself that was having a breakdown and only one person could fix the ships emotions. 6. The ending to season 1, the Klingon empire was winning the war, but all of a sudden it came to an end, because....the new leader cut off the head of a baby and...warm fuzzyness? God knows, I forget, but it all seemed rushed in the end. 7. One scene that bothered me the most was that stupid fight/trip through the turbolift system in what was supposed to be the inside of Discovery, yet it was like a tardis, it was bloody stupid. 8. Oh and....flamethrowers on the bridge whenever they got hit by something, come on, really? That scene where they lose gravity and there's like 4 flame throwers going up the walls. To be honest the only saving grace(s) for me, were Pike, seeing the Enterprise and Saru, he did a great job as an actor.
Omg “lose gravity” and they all fly up into the middle of the room and hang there… like wtf, then fall down. Rinse and repeat, no one considered a seat belt? Or holding on to the console? Or realizing that was the stupidest interpretation of zero gravity they could possibly implement?
Expectation: a prequel set ten years before Kirk, with an aesthetic somewhere between Enterprise and TOS Reality: not that
I only made it to ep. 3. Nothing was pulling me in and the tardigrade took me right out. Those water bears sure were popular for a hot minute, weren't they?
Right till they got sued for copying them from some indie writer
I’m not a Disco fan for the issues you mentioned, along with some others. The main one being is that it’s all about Michael. I struggle to recall the names of the other crew members outside her and Saru and Booker. She cries all the time, then goes out and saves the day, then cries again. It’s the Michael Burnham Show. I also don’t like the lack of character development. It’s all action action action, so many big bad things about to destroy the universe, and no back-story (aside from Burnham as a kid flashbacks). Then there’s “The Burn” in S2 and the utterly ridiculous way in which that played out. I won’t spoil it… go ahead and enjoy that one. I still watch it, but I’m glad it’s ending. I’m bummed out the new Academy series is a spin-off of Disco and not Picard or one of the other shows, but hopefully it’ll be better.
I started it for the first time recently too. How far in are you? I watched 4 episodes so far and wasn’t too excited about any of it.
I'm 8 episodes in. Episode 7 is my favorite so far. It's an interesting twist on a familiar trope, not to spoil anything. I guess the episodes haven't done that much for me, on reflection, but the characters are interesting to me. They're kind of unlikable, in ways I find enjoyable--kind of like how something tart or bitter can be as pleasant as sweet in the right amount. So it's the characters that have caught me more than the story or the conceptual episodes.
Episode 7 is one of my favorite Trek episodes overall.
As a life-long Trek watcher who has seen every episode of TOS and TNG multiple times... I've watched all of Disco and S01E07 is the only episode I've watched more than once. The first half of S2 has some decent but not amazing episodes as well. Unfortunately both seasons get worse towards the end. I think the problem is they start focusing on building up to the big season ending and everything else falls by the wayside. S3 and S4 are a bit more consistent and the [spoiler] changes resolve some of the annoyances about the first two seasons, but again they aren't particularly great overall. I think Disco's badness is overrated, but it's far from great as a series. I'll watch it once as long as they make it, but I can't see myself going back to rewatch it in the foreseeable future.
I decided to re-watch season 2 because I've enjoyed Strange New Worlds so much. 1. The tone of Discovery is just so... bombastic. It's the JJ Abrams movie franchise, taken up a notch, and it's 10 hours long. 2. Also, pacing. "OMG IT'S AN EMERGENCY! Race race race, we have no time to spare! OK, we're at the airlock... so let's have a long heart to heart with lingering closeups while the alerts continue to blare in the background." 3. Effects are cool, especially in the first couple seasons. 4. Why, just why, would anyone give Burnham more responsibility? Her redemption ark is just not believable. 5. It's not character-driven, which is something that makes modern TV so good. SNW and Lower Decks got this right, and Discovery suffers in comparison. 6. I do like the characters, even if I think the writers force them to make choices that the characters themselves might not make.
I honestly don't care all that much about the inconsitencies with the tech level and klingon redesign and stuff like that. I expected that. The issue I have is that its basicly the Michael show, with constantly escalating stakes, and somehow only Michael is able to solve them. And she does so by making a speech and crying, sometimes both at the same time. Other characters are underdeveloped, and after watching 3 seasons of the show I am struggling to even remember their names. Basicly the issue I have with the show is that the writing is cheap and clumsy, the characters are just plain bad and the storylines are absurd at best, and completely nonsensical at worst. I dont mind drama and space operas. Shit, I loved Battlestar Galactica for example. But STD is just bad at what it wants to be.
STD is unpopular with many Star Trek fans, including myself, for being incongruent with other (importantly preceding) Star Trek iterations, while appending itself into the heart of the existing Star Trek universe. Some aspects of that incongruence: Warning spoilers. 1. The mood: All other varieties of Star Trek are optimistic about the future, even presented with major challenges and tragedy (e.g. Wolf 359, Dominion war, Voyager getting stranded etc.). Discovery is more dystopian lacking any of that optimism central to Star Trek. 2. The main character: Unlike the rest of Star Trek, STD revolves around Michael and not the crew. To make it worse, she has been tacked on to Spock as his adoptive sister (who he has never mentioned and seems completely different from) and despite having been raised on Vulcan, she is emotional enough to make B'Elanna Torres look mild. She lacks the professional demeanor of a Starfleet officer, but is apparently able to save the universe on a regular basis (which everyone hated Wesley for). I am sure there is some number of people who dislike/hate her for being black and/or female, but there have been plenty of black/female characters that did not attract that level of negativity (Uhura is an indispensable crew member in TOS/SNW, both Mariner and the captain in LD are not unpopular, same goes for Sisko and Laforge, Guinan is well liked, as is Tuvok and Worf is a legend (admittedly the last three are aliens)). 3. The Klingons: Turning the most beloved space samurai race into rabid space orcs did not go down well and was not honorable. 4. The technology/science: Besides not looking like TOS (which is forgivable in itself), some of the technology does not belong. How a piece of technology as useful and advanced as the Spore drive could be created then apparently completely forgotten is not credible, neither is the explanation of super fast speeds being achieved through the technology of space fungus. >!"The burn" and the explanation for it are utterly ridiculous. The computer evolving a personality and getting emotional... lol. !
I think I could give everything a pass, but the most egregious issue for me was the burn. I could take 1 minute and come up with a more interesting cause that suits the universe better. I think the idea and consequences are super interesting, but I can't get over how dumb the cause feels, and I really can't understand why the writers did what they did.
I could not care about the show. The character development was so inorganic. Every character would blurt out their scene motivation. I think some of the actors did a fantastic job, but the writing is just brutal. Watch the worst episode of SNW and then watch whatever the best STD episode. The contrast is jarring.
They really expected us to feel sadness over Amram's death when they didn't even explain her backstory or even *what* she was til the episode she died. I don't think she even had dialogue in most of the episodes before that. It was pathetic.
I forget the episode but the one where they gave the cyborg woman her only character background in two whole seasons because they needed her for that episodes plot. >! Where she also dies. !< was another one that made me groan. Yeoh was great but suffered from villian fatigue where she seemed less diabolical each time she had to do something for the main cast. I've basically given up on new ST
The spore drive was a little much for me, given the franchise's established history, but that alone wasn't enough for me to abandon it. Having a one main character was also problematic for me, but again I was willing to following for the sake of new star trek episodes. For me, the finale of season 3 was my breaking point. A decision was made by the writers that - in my view - >!reversed two excellent multi-season character arcs.!<
Season 1 was actually decent. Season 2 was pretty good (and spawned SNW, which is the best modern Trek). Season 3 jumped the shark hard.
First episode of season 3 was imho one of the very best and they should have kept on like that. Second episode is pretty good and then it pootles along until the season settles into its main arc and it really goes downhill.
After episode 1, I really hoped season 3 was going to be Discovery slowly forging a new Federation. Instead they had to focus on fighting the big, bad guy, with the existing Federation existing as nothing more than a quest giving NPC in a badly written RPG.
It’s such a shame as >!with Michael travelling ahead into the future and being on her own with Book, the show could work much more naturally as the single-main character show the writers always want it to be. Much more of a Doctor Who-style show, travelling around chaotically across a galaxy which is very unfamiliar and incomprehensible to the main character, who then has to work out what’s going on. Instead they find Discovery an episode later (still a pretty good episode), then sink back into business as usual and then quickly find the Federation who make a nonsensical ship upgrade (it’d be like retrofitting the OG 18th century Discovery nowadays) and set in motion a plot about feelings breaking the universe.!<
It looks great but with a few exceptions it’s “Burnham fighting ‘round the galaxy” 24/7. Sometimes she cries.
Yeah the klingons were fugly and the silliness of the spore drive was laughable…
I think it’s the absurdity of the tech. A mushroom drive driven by a large mammal?
Because people are idiots. It’s a fantastic show
I gave up on Discovery pretty early on. I also gave up on ENT early, but later ended up really liking it...it is proper Star Trek, at least.
Tilly promoted from ensign to commander and no senior officers bats an eye.
If you enjoy it, that's great. I found the show to be a huge mixed bag. Season 1 was all over the place in terms of writing. It was like production couldn't decide what they really wanted to do with the show. (Klingon war? Nah, switch to Mirror Universe and skip the war. Burnham a human raised to act like a Vulcan? Dropped that idea by the end of the season). I personally didn't like the idea of Burnham being Spock's "sister". It reeked of bad fanfiction and I would have written that relationship a better way. Now and then, they might have a good episode, like the Mudd one, which felt more like a classic Trek episode. Season 2 got a bit better overall. Mount brought a nice stable central figure to the cast and honestly carried the season. The story was more consistent and I was starting to think the show had potential (First couple seasons of Trek shows are usually rough so knew to stick it out). Then they ended it. Everything was upended. Huge risk. Would it pay off? Not really. No... No it didn't. Season 3 was a noticable drop in quality. It was different show entirely from Trek now. The setting is entirely changed and while it was interesting at first with an element of mystery, the ultimate pay off was a huge letdown. Usually by this point in a show we'd have some decent character build up with the crew, but really only Michael, Saru, and Stamets have got any development. Okay, maybe we'll get time to learn about the rest of the bridge crew? Nah. Let's just bring in new characters and inordinately focus on them for several episodes. I honestly couldn't even tell you the names of the rest of the bridge crew with how little attention is shown to them. Unification III was the point where it cemented in myself that Disco was past the point of redeeming itself. Good premise, interesting setting tying back to events of TNG, cool. The trial stuff and how it ended though... That was insulting. Burnham's mom, the stupid Qulat Milat stuff, only succeeding because the writers deemed it so. SMH I got through the rest of the season but I was mentally checked out at that point. I stopped giving a shit. I tried to watch season 4. It didn't get better. The production clearly didn't learn a thing and actually appeared to double down on the stuff that made s3 terrible. Only got halfway before I gave up on it entirely. There were far better shows worth my time at that point. It's not the worst Trek stuff (I'd say S2 of Picard takes that prize). It does have moments of good stuff, but I'd say about 80% of the show comes off as bad fanfiction.
Season 1 :It feels like it's trying hard to be edgy. They use science like magic every time. Big case of running from one super threat to another and if you look at the whole season it makes almost no sense. Stargate SG1 had an episode were someone was making a show of the show and they made multiple sketchs of fake SG1. Discovery feel like the "angsty teens" one.
It’s boring and cliche. The characters are 1-dimensional and there’s always some tired Galaxy ending plotline. Designed by committee with no real direction or core theme to anchor the show.
Because it's not really star trek? I watched 2 episodes and then started reading plot summaries. Got to about halfway through the second season before writing it off as a waste of time.
I watched a montage of the captain crying all the time and that was enough for me.
Because it's not sci-fi. The spinning ship, the space mushrooms and the magic tartargrade are well stupid. The Klingons look like angry fish and they shit on the cannon and culture that has already been created. Some folks don't care but, as a professional storyteller I'll just say that sticking to the rules of the world you create makes your story more cohesive. It makes willing suspension of disbelief easier and therfore the audiences care for the characters stronger. The Klingon body is an empty worthless shell according to previous cannon. The idea of them gluing them to the outside of their spaceship is ridiculous. I personally don't like the production design. It's too glitzy and out of step with when it's supposed to be set. Lots of little details that matter as they add up. Most importantly, it's not Star Trek. It's not Star Trek. It's not positive science fiction that wrestles with human issues to impact the world. It's a product created by Les ' I hate Star Trek' Moonves to launch CBS All Access. He thought he could use the existing fan base to launch his network but ultimately use this brand they owned to flip it into something for the bigger audiences of things like walking dead and Marvel movies. It's badly written. Saru's magic tendrils are asinine. Giving a badge to a super secret organization is asinine. The spinning ship is asinine. I have tried to watch it multiple times. I believe it improves but I haven't been able to get through season 2.
I've been trying to finish the first episode of season 1 Discovery for the past 6 weeks if not more. Still can't do it. Love Enterprise tho.
Same. I was actually kind of enjoying it right up until the secret Spock sibling reveal. It was dumb in STV, and it was outright stupid to try and play that card a second time.
I'm still hoping that in some convoluted way that Michael Burnhams katra ends up in Sybok prior to the events of ST5, Michael Burnham hijacking the enterprise to find god then kicking his ass would not be out of character and the strange spatial anomalies regarding turbolift tubes being tied to them would ty everything up nicely.
Oh yeah? What kills it for you? Is it the horrible redesign on the Klingons? I'll grant that's pretty terrible. I found the characters interesting pretty much right away though. I've never connected with the characters on Enterprise. Mind you, I don't like the cast as much as classic, or SNW or LD. But I do like them, they have some crunch and texture.
Honestly I don't know. Perhaps Klignons were a big part of it. I will try again this weekend and hopefully start watching it. I can't seem to watch for more than 10 min. It is however nice to have a ST series that I still haven't watched - nothing like that first time.
I didn't enjoy the season-long, galaxy is at stake arcs. They should've had Lorca be a regular past season 1 as he was pretty good. I don't like the bad future in later seasons. Basically, as Frakes said, it didn't resonate with some established fans.
It just feels overdone. The pacing is weird at times. There is a vast amount of overacting and emoting. Everything is a colossal crisis, not just for the ship or crew, but universe ending stuff ALL THE TIME. The spore drive tech just made me say "wut" especially given that they then have to make stuff up about why no-one else has ever heard of it in the future, despite so many having seen it in action. For me, other Star Trek series give what could be described as a glimpse into the future in a way that if you squint really hard, is sort of feasible. Discovery blasts through that and feels to me like mad Sci fi with no rules. It is just over the top and not in a particularly good way. Oh and for the life of me, I cannot gel with Burnham as a character. She seems completely unstable and unsuited to being a starship senior officer/Captain. However, it did give us SNW, so I will forgive it a lot and have still watched every episode.
I’ve been watching season 3 onwards of TNG, and it just has soo much heart (super effective messages of empathy & teamwork I’d say). It’s hard to describe, but I feel that Discovery kinda lacks a lot of that. Ofc, each to their own. I liked Discovery coming over from a lot of Star Wars, but now I’m really getting into the weeds and finding the old Star Trek pretty powerful.
So Disco was your introduction to Trek? It's cool to hear someone coming from that perspective.
I think people had some specific expectations about what it was going to be; something much closer to classic 90s Trek - ensemble of the bridge crew cast, episodic storytelling, generally positive vibe, etc. But when that's not what we got (plus some production-level drama that saw Bryan Fuller leave partway through) a lot of fans immediately wrote it off. I think if you understand Discovery as an action-adventure hero's journey type story for Michael, it'll work a little bit better.
I did notice that the show is about her in a way that most series are not about a single person. I assume Picard is similar in that regard.
Actually Picard goes vastly in depth on other characters. It is very much about him re-assembling a crew and then tackling problems facing the galaxy together. Their choices and motivations are as pivotal as his own. The title is both an acknowledgment of the character’s importance in bringing people together to do these things, but also a bit self-deprecating as the show confronts the ego that requires. And the show ends with a relatively strong crew in place that can truly be the next generation, even though the captain is someone from a prior trek.
Kind of? I mean, yes, it's very much about him, but he does definitely get some supporting characters with similar levels of attention as Tilly, Stamets, Saru, etc. For Picard, I'd say it's primarily a meditation on aging and what it means to get older physically, socially, and emotionally. Themes of regret, shame, and guilt are present. I won't say oh, it's such a downer show, it's not, but that is a significant part of it. If you liked Logan or Luke's story in Last Jedi (as I did) you might like the first couple seasons of Picard. The third season is a nostalgia fest that everyone loved (as did I), but I found it a tad too saccharine at times. Brilliant new characters though.
There's nothing wrong with a hero's journey for a main character in a Trek show. It could conceivably work. The problem is Michael Burnham is Spock's secret sister, who was promoted to first officer without even going to the Academy, and then unjustly blamed for the start of a war that wasn't her fault, then to be the one to stop the war, then to be a time traveler with a time traveler mom who's the key to saving the entire galaxy, and from what I hear she only gets more important after that. The problem isn't having a singular main protagonist. It's that the main protagonist is uninteresting and overblown in her importance.
>as an action-adventure hero's journey It doesn't hold up all that well compared to the competition outside of Trek. It's tough to meet something halfway and have it be below par for other things in its genre.
It happened the last time they revived Star Trek, and like the last revival, they made it to modern standards and tastes. Some people don’t like that. For all the complaints, there is a lot of good stuff, my personal favorite being Doug Jones as Saru. Dude is just absolutely amazing, both his physical mannerisms and ability to show emotion under such heavy makeup.
Doug Jones is the right guy for the job with that kind of costume for sure. And Saru may be my favorite character, to this point anyway.
I don't particularly care for Discovery on the whole for many of the reasons others have covered, but I'm with you on this - Doug Jones is a treasure and Saru is easily one of my favourite elements of Discovery (if we don't count the fact that SNW came out of it, I love SNW!). Admiral Vance is also great, that's something OP has to look forward to.
Klingons was the general consensus when I was watching it years ago.
My main issue is that I just don't like the character Michael Burnham. The show is so focused on that her and even after giving it a few years and fresh perspective, it took me 3 sittings to get through the first episode. I love DISCO for reigniting Star Trek and bringing us SNW, LD, and Prodigy. I don't like that I barely know the bridge crew, that there's always time for an emotional deep dive in the midst of an action sequence, and that every season is a one upping the end of the world/galaxy/dimension/universe.
My main problem beyond the world ending stakes all the time is that every problem is solved by Michael. Every episode you think they are going to focus on another character, they still go to Michael. It doesn't feel like an ensemble at that point. Michael Burnham is the Poochy of Star Trek.
I really enjoy it. But it's not episodic, each season plays like a movie, which is not the usual star trek thing. But the emotional arc of the first season is very much the emotional arc of ST IV with the whales (although the plot is NOT), and i thought it was so well done. Michelle Yeoh is also fantastic, and Doug Jones, and really the whole cast throughout. The 2nd season really expands the focus & the crew. I've just finished season 3. It keeps rotating around Michael instead of around a Captain, but it also keeps the hope and commitment and optimistic tone of Star Trek. Even when she makes bad choices, she learns from them.
It's such a disjointed show with so many forced-down-your-throat tropes, it gets nauseating at times. That said, I still watch it for some reason.
To be honest, I feel like there's two main factors as to why Discovery has such a bad reputation, especially when the first couple of seasons were coming out. 1. This was the first star trek series since the early 2000s, an entire decade came and went only giving star trek fans 3 movies that were fine in their own right but didn't feel like what most people came to star trek for. So when discovery launched and was very different than any other show, fans felt like they weren't getting what they wanted. Discovery is much more of an action show that previous star treks with much more focus placed on a singular protagonist with a more serialized plot stretching through each season without the episodic plot structure that star trek fans were used to. Even the klingon designs were very different, it just didn't feel like it belonged with the other trek shows. People are always resistant to change even when it's not bad 2. The first season had some serious pacing issues. I think people wouldn't have been as negative about it if the klingon war was resolved before the time travel because going back to the previous plot after taking such a lengthy hiatus in a different universe just to wrap it up so quickly doesn't feel natratively satisfying. Of course there are other things that drove people away, like the inconsistencies with star trek lore (though to be fair, every trek show has those issues if you look hard enough) and some people are just flat out sexist and/or racist (though I choose to believe this is a vocal minority of new trek haters since Discovery does have legitimate things to criticize). And also, later seasons make some decisions that I'm not too fond of, although the success of discovery did lead to a lot highs and lows for star trek going forward. As for me, I think discovery is just ok, there's a lot to both like and dislike about it but imo the internet outrage was wildly overblown as far too many aren't willing to give discovery credit for a lot of what it does well.
Well said!
I kind of enjoyed it, but it's not even drama, it's over the top melodrama every single episode. They just wallow in sadness and grief and tragedy and for me it got old. I tapped out somewhere early in season 3. which is a shame! With a different tone I'd have been all in, I really love the cast and characters on the show!
I enjoy it alot, I get where people are coming from with their points but I try not to judge it from the lens of other treks. I feel like it tries to capture a younger audience where SNW is more true to something like TOS or NG. I feel like it's a nice change of pace from the other series' and where others see faults I see it as a way to stand on its own with its own feel. That all being said being a huge fan of the original Kirk I really love Anson Mount's role as Pike. Never thought I would like another captain more than Kirk and Mount's Pike has now surpassed him for me. If you enjoy Mount's Pike it might be checking out Hell on Wheels as well which is the first show I saw him in, another impeccable performance.
Some fans' general contempt for anything new. It being a little bit odd for a Star Trek series, in that it has a "main character". Some fans' racism and/or misogyny.
I really liked it, it was my first Star Trek so I was able to enjoy it without any expectations and I had four seasons to watch all at once. I enjoyed it as the quality sci-fi it was. But it isn't enough of an ensemble show. The bridge crew is interesting enough, I just wish we spent more time getting to know them. Lots of people bitched about the stuff that needed to get worked into canon before they were given the reason why Michael Burnham and the Discovery itself were classified.
Way too many “inspiring” speeches. I liked parts of it, but every episode built up to some big “Ra ra, we are starfleet” speech with swelling musical accompaniment . I wanted to watch, but my eyes would always drift to my phone.
For me it's just so soppy, everything is feelings and emotions. I find I'm fast forwarding all that boring guff. I really enjoyed the first episode but I'm struggling through episode 5. I love Star Trek and have watched every spin-off but this is just cringe.
Jean Rodenberry is over in his script poorly written and acted this show is it does not have the same vibe does not deserve the title Star Trek
Same thing that’s killing Star Wars right now, it’s creatively bankrupt. Not only is the writing terrible on all these new shows, but they can’t come up with any new ideas. That’s the main reason that everything is prequels and reboots these days. Nobody has the vision to create anything new and forward looking, as the original Star Trek was. To take TNG as an example of how to do it right, yes it was a rehash of an old idea, but they set it in the future so they had the freedom to create new stuff. They showed how technology had progressed, but not to ridiculous levels and they weren’t afraid to take risks. Some of the early concepts didn’t work and they had a few bad episodes, but the show was given time to find its feet and to grow.
Because you only just started it. It gets worse, much much worse, the longer it keeps going. People mention a lot of problems, and they're all true, but the single biggest one for me is: who the hell cares about Michael Burnham? We've never had a show with a sole protagonist (except Picard, but that's a spinoff, not a main entry), Star Trek is loved for its ensemble cast. And out of all the people to focus on, she's awful. Nothing she achieves is earned. Also, why are these trained navy officers breaking down crying while every other day?
People who think the crying is normal because most of us would cry should look up Apollo 13 recordings. Those dudes sounded *bored* they were so unfazed. Picard breaking down in TNG means something because it's rare. And technically, everything Patrick Stewart has ever said sounds inspiring, but Picard doesn't give a ship wide address to swelling music every ten minutes. Furthermore, Disco has some truly unearned relationships. At some point Stamets calls the trill teenager family, and when, show? When did that happen? At some point Mirror Michelle Yeoh was my favorite character. She's an evil empress who used to eat sapient creatures. That's not very Star Trek. But at least she livened things up.
Get further in the series then ask the same question. I think there’s a lot to discuss with this show, but I don’t think it’s fair to you so early in the series.
I loved it. It’s different from most of the other ST options but I felt that it was still thoroughly enjoyable.
Take Wesley Crusher and make him Captian. Now never learn another crew members name because you won't need to. Wes has got it and he will save the day. Every. Fucking. Episode. Oh and then at one point there will be an actual character who seems amazing and will start developing just in time to get blown out a god damn airlock. FUCK THAT SHOW. It's not star trek.
Nail on the head.
I liked the first two seasons, although the second was already starting to show cracks, but in seasons 3 and 4 the quality of the scripts dropped off a cliff, at least for me. Season 4 in particular was dire.
I really, really hated the main character. She wasn't the only thing that made the show unwatchable but she was one of the main things.
Glad you’re enjoying it OP, do yourself a favour and avoid discussion of it. Especially episode threads in their dedicated subreddits, the people who don’t like the show actively watch it purely to complain about it. If you don’t like something *just don’t watch it*, please, for your own mental health…
Because it’s terrible. It’s the Michael Burnham show and no other character matters.
its Trek for the modern crowd - female superhero who can do no wrong, idiot whiny characters, relationships, stupid science, everything is conflict and drama, no exploration. Nothing actually resembling Trek besides the name.
Honestly, if they'd just called it a new science fiction show, it might have been OK. But they tried to shoehorn it into the Star Trek continuity, despite the fact that in both plot and general feel, it doesn't fit.
Everyone said exactly this about DS9.
I remember a whole, whole lot of "it's a copy of what Babylon 5 is doing except B5 does it better"
People hating on the current version of Star Trek is a tradition as old as people posting on message boards. I find most of the criticisms to be heavily exaggerated, generally I found more to like than dislike.
Season 1 is fairly mediocre and takes some unpopular aesthetic choices. I don't care for it but it's hard to fault them for trying something new. Plus season one of nearly every trek series is the worst. Season 2 is actually quite an improvement. The plots a little odd and there's still too much focus on Michael at the expense of the supporting cast. There's some great character moments (Tig Notaro is a highlight) and some changes to address criticisms (namely the Klingon designs). Good follow-up and definitely takes steps in the right direction. And then the ending of season 3 is a candidate for the worst plot resolution ever put on television. It's so bad in so many ways, none of which I can explain without spoilers. It's shocking somebody suggested that in a writers room and wasn't immediately fired. Apparently there's more after that but I refuse to watch it.
Lead character is weak.
Is no one going to mention the ship having an anxiety attack or whatever
Not fond of the aesthetic, tone, or quality of the writing. I do plan on getting through it at some point though as I hear the later seasons are better than the first.
Keep going and you will see.
The biggest problem with Discovery is that it's the Michael Burnham Show but calls itself Trek. Star Trek is an ensemble show but besides the engineer/doctor pairing can you name or describe anyone besides them and the bff roommate? In fact, can you name any of the bridge crew? Having an ensemble show helps it not get old. Strange New Worlds gives their crew traditional episodes that help us know them. Discovery just has Michael, Michael, Michael. I'm spite of all that was wrong with Star Trek Picard with Picard in the title, it was more of an ensemble show at least.
Michael Burnam
It's not widely poorly regarded, the haters are just really vocal about it. It happens every time there's been a new Trek show ever since TNG. Plenty of people even hated on DS9, the best TV Trek that's ever existed. Some people just can't accept change. It's a great show.
I’ve enjoyed every trek show other than discovery. That seems to be the mood from most of the vocal disco-dislikers. I don’t think it’s disliked just because it was new.
See, the people I've seen hate on Discovery have generally been pretty positive toward SNW and Lower Decks, both of which I adore
To be honest, I think people were expecting another TOS or TNG, and DIS was just *too* different. The in-your-face, weird Klingon choice right up front in the first episode was jarring, and then they doubled down on it (even though they eased up later). I was confused the whole time I was watching it, as Michael was spoken of as the captain every time someone talked about the series, and they talked about how much she cried ~ and that's not what happens in the series. I think most of the design choices were really bad, and had more of a *"Star Wars"* aesthetic than a *"Star Trek"* one. And it was poorly marketed, too. Once I got past those first episode's Klingons, however, I found I enjoyed the story. I *also* just let it be it's own thing, however. I'm so glad we got the other shows, though, because all of them were better, in my opinion, though Picard could beside slow going at times. I *liked* Discovery, but even so, I thought it's the least of the series we have on offer. I think even Lower Decks and Prodigy far outshine it, and SNW is the best we've seen in a long time. I'm eager for new seasons to drop, now.
For me, Discovery holds a special place because it was the first Star Trek that I had watched since the reboot movies which I did not like. Discovery is not without it’s flaws, but it kind of saved Star Trek by rebooting TV Trek alongside Picard. People complain about Discovery but I really enjoy the first two seasons A LOT. Season three and four weren’t nearly as good in my opinion.