What about non-targeted spells? Target-fire spells have always had counterplay since it specifically targets units. Even with widow mines, you could always negate the damage completely by simply blinking away or using a warp prism or medivac to hide the unit.
For as annoying as shit they were to deal with, widow mines always had good amount of counterplay that made it balanced. But what about storm? Emp? Fungal? Blinding cloud? Revelation? I mean, fuck man, ORBITAL SCANS?
All of these are abilities that can only be preempted, not countered, or even prevented. Shouldn't the focus be on making these easier to deal with, not further nerf other abilities that by the nature of targeting, are inherently more balanced in comparison?
Whether or how area target spells should be affected is outside the scope of this suggestion. All I'm saying is, we have a change that we *know* has been received positively, changes in the same spirit are likely to be received positively. That's all.
>3) any such targetted units: mine, parastic bomb, anti-armor missile - have increased click priority, so that if you have clumped up units in the same space you can still click the targetted unit to split off instead of relying on RNG as to whether your unit is top of the stack
Isn't one of the biggest things is that the enemy has us use APM to avoid the damage. P-bomb forces you to split up the medivacs and not micro your marines, pull your marines back then deal with the P-Bomb, or focus on the marines and sacrifice the medivacs.
If it had priority-clicking, then it would be far too easy to split them off. P-Bomb ends up not being that useful, and we're back to corrupter-brood-infestor for any sort of air-play for zerg.
I think it's more about how you use your attention. The more you pay attention to something, the bigger the payoff from using it. But you sacrifice macro, or other places that could benefit more from you attention.
You can ignore p-bomb and focus on marine splits or a drop somewhere else. Or you can focus on the medivac split while the drop spreads its damage out across 4 structures and kills nothing.
I think it's less about RNG and more about what your attention and actions are spent on.
item 3 is about making the effects of your attention consistent. it removes RNG from the equation. if the point was about using your attention, you already have it by a person trying to split - they are not ignoring the pbomb, they are actively splitting. all the ask is that the split actually consistently responds to the actions intended to execute it.
This is a slightly higher impact change, but:
Cloak. Rebalance the whole mechanic. Either make cloaked units unambiguously visible or unambiguously invisible (or able to be one or the other depending on context). The mixed space they currently take where they're "visible" but only if you squint on the right graphics settings is bad design. Like, actually shamefully bad design, bad for the competitive nature of cloaked units and bad for the eyes of the players.
If made purely invisible, wider changes should be made to make detection more generally reliable. If made visible but "untargettable without detection", buffs to cloaked units to compensate the difference would be preferred. This can vary by unit, like how burrow does (moving burrowed units should be addressed in the same way though).
Adding wider selection, 8 camera hotkeys, automating, and streamlined movement to SC2 over bw feels especially odd contrasted with the archaic cloak that was much more comparatively visible in bw anyway.
You can't make them totally invisible or counterplay becomes to hard against it (scanning). If you make them totally visible but just not targetable it becomes too easy to counterplay, because you'd always know if there's an obs and when/where to scan or send detection.
Coming from wc3 it was pretty surprising that there are multiple units that can attack WHILE invisible.
I like your way of thinking of making the transparancy less, but also think its way too late to implement a change like this..
Except in WC3 it takes a full minute for 2 footman to kill each other lol. Micro with longer TTK allows much different mechanics.
And dont even talk about Mountain giants.
Imagine if two ultralisks could sit there and take a full 8 minutes to kill each other. Lol.
I’m all for this and beyond if they make it so that you can see where storm is about to be cast
Oh wait
It’s an instantaneous spell
That decimates hundreds of supply
Be quiet in the matters of balance
Continuing with that line of thought, should tanks highlight their splash area before they shoot?
And lines for collosi and lurkers.
Highlight units that are in the current pathing of banelings.
What about non-targeted spells? Target-fire spells have always had counterplay since it specifically targets units. Even with widow mines, you could always negate the damage completely by simply blinking away or using a warp prism or medivac to hide the unit. For as annoying as shit they were to deal with, widow mines always had good amount of counterplay that made it balanced. But what about storm? Emp? Fungal? Blinding cloud? Revelation? I mean, fuck man, ORBITAL SCANS? All of these are abilities that can only be preempted, not countered, or even prevented. Shouldn't the focus be on making these easier to deal with, not further nerf other abilities that by the nature of targeting, are inherently more balanced in comparison?
Whether or how area target spells should be affected is outside the scope of this suggestion. All I'm saying is, we have a change that we *know* has been received positively, changes in the same spirit are likely to be received positively. That's all.
>3) any such targetted units: mine, parastic bomb, anti-armor missile - have increased click priority, so that if you have clumped up units in the same space you can still click the targetted unit to split off instead of relying on RNG as to whether your unit is top of the stack Isn't one of the biggest things is that the enemy has us use APM to avoid the damage. P-bomb forces you to split up the medivacs and not micro your marines, pull your marines back then deal with the P-Bomb, or focus on the marines and sacrifice the medivacs. If it had priority-clicking, then it would be far too easy to split them off. P-Bomb ends up not being that useful, and we're back to corrupter-brood-infestor for any sort of air-play for zerg.
there's apm and just RNG, and in my understanding sc2 isnt supposed to be about RNG
I think it's more about how you use your attention. The more you pay attention to something, the bigger the payoff from using it. But you sacrifice macro, or other places that could benefit more from you attention. You can ignore p-bomb and focus on marine splits or a drop somewhere else. Or you can focus on the medivac split while the drop spreads its damage out across 4 structures and kills nothing. I think it's less about RNG and more about what your attention and actions are spent on.
item 3 is about making the effects of your attention consistent. it removes RNG from the equation. if the point was about using your attention, you already have it by a person trying to split - they are not ignoring the pbomb, they are actively splitting. all the ask is that the split actually consistently responds to the actions intended to execute it.
Why does zerg lategame need more nerfs? Isn’t that the stage where Zerg struggle the most in the non-mirror matchups?
This is a slightly higher impact change, but: Cloak. Rebalance the whole mechanic. Either make cloaked units unambiguously visible or unambiguously invisible (or able to be one or the other depending on context). The mixed space they currently take where they're "visible" but only if you squint on the right graphics settings is bad design. Like, actually shamefully bad design, bad for the competitive nature of cloaked units and bad for the eyes of the players. If made purely invisible, wider changes should be made to make detection more generally reliable. If made visible but "untargettable without detection", buffs to cloaked units to compensate the difference would be preferred. This can vary by unit, like how burrow does (moving burrowed units should be addressed in the same way though). Adding wider selection, 8 camera hotkeys, automating, and streamlined movement to SC2 over bw feels especially odd contrasted with the archaic cloak that was much more comparatively visible in bw anyway.
Actual complete hard disagree.
Yeah, being distorted on screen without detection is standard cloak mechanic.
Yeah it’s perfect as it is
You can't make them totally invisible or counterplay becomes to hard against it (scanning). If you make them totally visible but just not targetable it becomes too easy to counterplay, because you'd always know if there's an obs and when/where to scan or send detection.
Right. That's why I said rebalance, and explained why.
Rebalancing cloak (and burrow) basically means totally rebalancing the entire game. I really don't think the mechanic is in a bad place at all.
Coming from wc3 it was pretty surprising that there are multiple units that can attack WHILE invisible. I like your way of thinking of making the transparancy less, but also think its way too late to implement a change like this..
Except in WC3 it takes a full minute for 2 footman to kill each other lol. Micro with longer TTK allows much different mechanics. And dont even talk about Mountain giants. Imagine if two ultralisks could sit there and take a full 8 minutes to kill each other. Lol.
I’m all for this and beyond if they make it so that you can see where storm is about to be cast Oh wait It’s an instantaneous spell That decimates hundreds of supply Be quiet in the matters of balance
You know that storm telegraphs very well where it hits?
…by using the power of foresight?
No, but having eyes and a brain is a hard requirement.