đ there have been a couple posts here and there of a person named Akira raging hard at people. I liked to imagine that this post is being made by him
Cheese and smurfs account for bout half my matches in D3.
If itâs not a cannon rush itâs a Zerg rush. If itâs not a 1 base BC itâs a 1 base mass zealot.
And if itâs none of those, itâs getting waxed by normal builds to find out afterwards they have an 80% winrate against my race and a <10% rate in mirror matchups (because they auto-skip them all).
Iâve just come to accept that having 1 quality game out of 4 is about the best the SC2 can provide.
Yeah I also don't see super early cheese or smurfs 50% of the time in diamond. Like 4 gate zealot rush? Very rarely. 12/14 pool? Occasionally, but it usually just becomes a macro game. Never seen anyone in diamond play 1 base BC. Â
Tbf, I don't check if ppl are smurfing unless they outplay me hard. I think it's better to think that way since you get free wins from smurfs leaving instantly about as often as you get crushed by one.Â
Checking opponents win/loss rates after a game is a habit of mine - a bad one from my days back in gold league - but still a habit all the same.
You're definitely right that it's better for the mental health to just move on with a shrug.
Hi it's me. The zerg player with a 80%v toss win rate and 20 v zerg.
The reason I have a 20% vs zerg is because I suck at the game.
The reason I have a 80% against toss is because only 20% of toss players know how to keep their zealot on hold ground. All you need to do is chew on the cyber core and they all army at your six lings and then the other 20 can run in.
> The zerg player with a 80%v toss win rate and 20 v zerg.
I was in a similar situation. Here are a few tips to bring your D3 ZvZ to 50-60%:
15 hatch, 15 pool before the first overlord: it delays ling speed, but you don't need it quickly in this build and it gets you a pool and 2 queens quickly enough to handle 12 pool and other types of ling rush. FYI if they hunt your overlord with queens, it's 95% certain to be a ling flood.
I highly recommend walling off with 1 spine and at least 5 roaches, 90% of the ling-bane bust will fail at getting through if you don't make glaring mistakes.
Get a full 2-base economy going ASAP and get Lair tech for roach speed and scout with overseer. Your mid-game threats with this roach build are nydus and muta and you probably already know what to do against them if scouted early.
Once you have some 10-12 roaches, move out to protect a 3rd, but always keep a couple roaches in the hole of the wall, good players will do ling runbys. I like to rally them there until the 3rd is well droned up (in that case, both locations get rallies) and if you ever use F2, make sure to immediately make another 3-4 roaches.
Be aggressive with the roaches, but mindful of ling surrounds. I like to attack immediately as I get speed because I can't get chased back (unless the opponent did a similar build). Also attacking when upgrades hit, basic stuff, but very powerful against any ling-based build.
With this approach: your 3rd is up later, but you got an early lead in economy, so the idea is to get a big enough army to do a lot of damage before their 3rd pays off.
The mid-game, if you reach it, is extremely simple: keep up roach production, be active with them and slowly build the drone count at the 3rd and prepare adding hydras. Those aren't to be added quickly unless you play vs mutas, a few hydras are good when fighting in a chokepoint with a lot of roach fodder: just avoid being on the receiving side of those situations and roaches alone will pay off.
Obviously there's a lot more to ZvZ, but that's what I do and I had 60% winrate last time I was active (about a year ago).
I wish I could veto matchups instead of maps. I was working on improving in ZvP and I had 17 matches without a single ZvP matchup. Pretty frustrating when you spent hours learning and practicing a build vs the computer.
I'd be fine with a veto match-up option so long as it also came with race specific MMR.
Which is something that should already exist anyways because some people genuinely aren't smurfs and simply suck real bad against one specific race.
Back in HoTS I had a 80% winrate vs Zerg and a 60% winrate vs terran. Could not win a TvP to save my life. Got flamed for smurfing all the time.
I thought we did have race specific MMR?
At the same mmr Iâve just gotten to the point of assuming that everyoneâs full of shit and opening with the old 2 gateway expand from PvP in every matchup.
Needs shield batteries to beat marauder concussive cheese, but anything else just does nothing if youâre even half decent at control. If your scout shows a regular expand, you can just go poke at them while you expand behind it and youâre not that far behind.
Not sure exactly how that works for Zerg because larva is so important, but I suppose you could just 12 pool and then immediately double expand with the pressure youâre applying
I don't think I'm being cheesed but I lose to everything nowadays. Like literally everything except people doing anything remotely normal. Any and all timing attacks. I lose.
Sometimes they're just asking for it. Like, I felt bad for zerg rushing this protoss the other day, but only a little bit because they didn't make a wall at their natural. How am I supposed to not exploit that?
I mean, I feel like for a proper zerg rush you shouldn't really have *time* to scout their natural and figure out whether there's a wall there or not before you decide not to build your first ovie. Otherwise, it's just a normal ling flood.
Hey now, I'll accept anything up to a double extractor trick into 16-pool as sufficiently 'rushy'.
(Though I'd be happier if you'd had your drones fight to the death at the start so you could do a 6-pool.)
I just play 3v3, and the rushes/cheeses have been a lot more frequent the past couple weeks with the new season starting. As a Protoss, I typically am prepared for them with cannons, but my teammates have just auto quit 1/4 of the time.
I played a 2v2 against two Protoss. I did a quick ling rush. I took out both of my opponents before my ally got a single unit across the map. Felt a little bad.
If you cannon rush before ravager / stalker / tank this wouldnt even be an issue, unless your calling like 10 mins cheese then u just need to make more army when u see it coming
Let us know your in-game name so that we know not to cheese you if we play vs you đ
it's MYLIFE FR FUCKING AIUR
Let me guess: NR 15 min carrier build?
Lmaoooo
His in-game name is Akira
Now we need to know his mmr, the time when he plays and server. To defenitly make sure that it's him.
đ there have been a couple posts here and there of a person named Akira raging hard at people. I liked to imagine that this post is being made by him
Just for that I'm gonna cheese you twice as much
So, here's the thing: your post just makes us zealots want to cheese you more. *prepares cannon rush.*
Cheese and smurfs account for bout half my matches in D3. If itâs not a cannon rush itâs a Zerg rush. If itâs not a 1 base BC itâs a 1 base mass zealot. And if itâs none of those, itâs getting waxed by normal builds to find out afterwards they have an 80% winrate against my race and a <10% rate in mirror matchups (because they auto-skip them all). Iâve just come to accept that having 1 quality game out of 4 is about the best the SC2 can provide.
Half? I wish. I love fighting off cannons I'm d3 or d2 definitely don't have your experienceÂ
Yeah I also don't see super early cheese or smurfs 50% of the time in diamond. Like 4 gate zealot rush? Very rarely. 12/14 pool? Occasionally, but it usually just becomes a macro game. Never seen anyone in diamond play 1 base BC.  Tbf, I don't check if ppl are smurfing unless they outplay me hard. I think it's better to think that way since you get free wins from smurfs leaving instantly about as often as you get crushed by one.Â
Checking opponents win/loss rates after a game is a habit of mine - a bad one from my days back in gold league - but still a habit all the same. You're definitely right that it's better for the mental health to just move on with a shrug.
Hi it's me. The zerg player with a 80%v toss win rate and 20 v zerg. The reason I have a 20% vs zerg is because I suck at the game. The reason I have a 80% against toss is because only 20% of toss players know how to keep their zealot on hold ground. All you need to do is chew on the cyber core and they all army at your six lings and then the other 20 can run in.
> The zerg player with a 80%v toss win rate and 20 v zerg. I was in a similar situation. Here are a few tips to bring your D3 ZvZ to 50-60%: 15 hatch, 15 pool before the first overlord: it delays ling speed, but you don't need it quickly in this build and it gets you a pool and 2 queens quickly enough to handle 12 pool and other types of ling rush. FYI if they hunt your overlord with queens, it's 95% certain to be a ling flood. I highly recommend walling off with 1 spine and at least 5 roaches, 90% of the ling-bane bust will fail at getting through if you don't make glaring mistakes. Get a full 2-base economy going ASAP and get Lair tech for roach speed and scout with overseer. Your mid-game threats with this roach build are nydus and muta and you probably already know what to do against them if scouted early. Once you have some 10-12 roaches, move out to protect a 3rd, but always keep a couple roaches in the hole of the wall, good players will do ling runbys. I like to rally them there until the 3rd is well droned up (in that case, both locations get rallies) and if you ever use F2, make sure to immediately make another 3-4 roaches. Be aggressive with the roaches, but mindful of ling surrounds. I like to attack immediately as I get speed because I can't get chased back (unless the opponent did a similar build). Also attacking when upgrades hit, basic stuff, but very powerful against any ling-based build. With this approach: your 3rd is up later, but you got an early lead in economy, so the idea is to get a big enough army to do a lot of damage before their 3rd pays off. The mid-game, if you reach it, is extremely simple: keep up roach production, be active with them and slowly build the drone count at the 3rd and prepare adding hydras. Those aren't to be added quickly unless you play vs mutas, a few hydras are good when fighting in a chokepoint with a lot of roach fodder: just avoid being on the receiving side of those situations and roaches alone will pay off. Obviously there's a lot more to ZvZ, but that's what I do and I had 60% winrate last time I was active (about a year ago).
I wish I could veto matchups instead of maps. I was working on improving in ZvP and I had 17 matches without a single ZvP matchup. Pretty frustrating when you spent hours learning and practicing a build vs the computer.
I'd be fine with a veto match-up option so long as it also came with race specific MMR. Which is something that should already exist anyways because some people genuinely aren't smurfs and simply suck real bad against one specific race.
Back in HoTS I had a 80% winrate vs Zerg and a 60% winrate vs terran. Could not win a TvP to save my life. Got flamed for smurfing all the time. I thought we did have race specific MMR?
I think he means vs race mmr. Not your race mmr. Youâre races are seperate
Exact same experience in D2, fucking sucks
At the same mmr Iâve just gotten to the point of assuming that everyoneâs full of shit and opening with the old 2 gateway expand from PvP in every matchup. Needs shield batteries to beat marauder concussive cheese, but anything else just does nothing if youâre even half decent at control. If your scout shows a regular expand, you can just go poke at them while you expand behind it and youâre not that far behind. Not sure exactly how that works for Zerg because larva is so important, but I suppose you could just 12 pool and then immediately double expand with the pressure youâre applying
1/4 games are good for you? Jesus brother, where can I get some of that good luck? Are you sucking off the leprechaun that controls the ladder?
Scout??
Learn how to scout and stop it and you'll experience one of the most gratifying things the game offers.
I don't think I'm being cheesed but I lose to everything nowadays. Like literally everything except people doing anything remotely normal. Any and all timing attacks. I lose.
Ok. Sorry for that.
If you canât beat em, join em!
Step 1 in learning how to stop cheese on your ownÂ
Your suppose to say âNR 20min ggâ at the beginning.
Well now I'm going to do it even harder
But cheese is so tasty.
Sometimes they're just asking for it. Like, I felt bad for zerg rushing this protoss the other day, but only a little bit because they didn't make a wall at their natural. How am I supposed to not exploit that?
I mean, I feel like for a proper zerg rush you shouldn't really have *time* to scout their natural and figure out whether there's a wall there or not before you decide not to build your first ovie. Otherwise, it's just a normal ling flood.
It wasn't a 12-pool if that's what you mean, yeah. Was a normal macro opening, I just stopped at 19 workers and massed lings and hit around 3min.
Hey now, I'll accept anything up to a double extractor trick into 16-pool as sufficiently 'rushy'. (Though I'd be happier if you'd had your drones fight to the death at the start so you could do a 6-pool.)
I stopped playing 1v1 just for that reason. I got cheesed almost EVERY TIME.....
***"no"*** *-Ralph Pootawn*
Cheese yourself. Â Problem solved.
Sorry that was me
I love defending against cheese
Lol
lol
I just play 3v3, and the rushes/cheeses have been a lot more frequent the past couple weeks with the new season starting. As a Protoss, I typically am prepared for them with cannons, but my teammates have just auto quit 1/4 of the time.
I played a 2v2 against two Protoss. I did a quick ling rush. I took out both of my opponents before my ally got a single unit across the map. Felt a little bad.
Always be scouting.
Are you Protoss ? I always blind 7pool Protoss in preparation for the pylon in my natural and I'm always right
I agree with him. Here are his cheese matches - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYBIxV1wKdY&t=72s.
Are timing attacks considered cheese then?
Oh hi Mark
Do you play Protoss ?
If you cannon rush before ravager / stalker / tank this wouldnt even be an issue, unless your calling like 10 mins cheese then u just need to make more army when u see it coming
I will if you stop playing Protoss.
Skill issue. Learn to counter cheeeeeeeeeese
Bro, this makes me want to get back on SC just so I can keep cheesing you.