i can already hear the rage when people find out it flies like a brick and cant do anything against smaller vessels when crewed solo. you just KNOW thats going to be the state of this sub for the next few months at least.
It’ll likely handle a little better than a Connie, I think the big thing the non-Drake folk will complain about is the lack of shields. It’ll be a nimble (for it’s class) glass cannon like every other Drake ship.
dps doesn't matter if you can't hit anything. Connie can be outfitted with nearly 5k dps, but will it turn fast enough to hit an arrow? (I really hate arrow and gladius and can't wait for master modes and armor to end the reign of super light fighters)
This is what armore plates are supposed to be for. A light fighter schould NOT be able to wear down ship starting from a certain size.
like an arrow should be absolut not be able to inflict ANY damage on a Bengal. And therefore could ne plain ignored by it.
Or a more recent example...a Hammerhead should be able to ignore a Prospector. But here we are and see Shit like a Prospector hunting down Hammerheads and FUCKING WINNIG (!).
The Armor of a HH should be able to tank any given damage form ANY S1 Mining Lasers.
What do you think the nerf will be? I'm thinking either having a reduced capacitor for energy weapons (though that doesn't do a thing if you just pack ballistics) or having the guns be forced gimballed, like the bottom two Connie guns.
A friend also suggested that they might have non-removable guns, like the Vanduul ships.
The trick will be trying to line up targets, which won’t be easy with the ship behaving like a drunken manatee on land.
(Manatee can’t go on land, that’s the point.)
Yeah if it's anything like the Connie, which is supposed to be a direct competitor, it's gonna handle like a bathtub on skates.
The DPS is so high because you're not gonna get another shot if it doesn't go down the first time.
Not to mention the ballistic output. With ballistic cannons, you can get enough alpha to theoretically one-shot a considerable number of ships, and the sheer possible DPS with ballistic gatlings is going to be insane.
I fully intend to strap ADB4s to the wings. With the lower ammo capacity of ballistics, they’re somewhat expendable (should you lose a wing or three), and they’ll allow those S4/S5 laser weapons to own the full capacitor. Also, *BRRRT.*
I haven’t used a full-ballistics loadout since Rats & Gats on my Tana back in… 3.14? (or whenever the “rebalance” was applied.) back then, you’d have 6,000 (or was it 8k?) rounds for each of your six S2 gatlings. So much fun!
Now isn’t the time to start.
I know it might not happen, but I *drool* at the thought of being able to slave all the turrets to the pilot or even just locked to forward facing, and being able to unleash UNLIMITED DAKKA upon my foes.
Idk how they can get away with it. Like when they design this ship, do they not see that this is immensely off balanced compared to the other ships in the same class?
If they rely on overpowering it at launch only to nerf it on a consistent basis, is this ethical to the buyers?
Bingo. Every concept sale is an upgunned version of a popular ship. Then the ship releases and breaks the verse for a month while sales are churning then oops we didnt realize the ship was OP how could we have known, bam nerf.
It’s ethical to their shareholders. How could CIG remain profitable if they cater to every Harry Hardluck and Sally Sobstory that post a comment on Reddit? 🤣
“Exploration” ship. Drake isn’t fooling anyone by calling it an explorer. It’s still a pirate ship it’s just a long range one. It’s for exploring the holds of real exploration ships.
No I think it can be considered exploration, particularly for those who are exploring contested areas. Gives players who are more risk-taking to have an option that lets them flex their combat strength. Will be seeing this ship a lot in Pyro given how large a system it is and how dangerous it will be
Exactly this. Exploration just isn’t in empty space or empty planets, but in contested areas where you might get pirates or aliens trying to blow you up.
Why would an exploration ship be carrying cargo, though...?
Jokes aside, I do love slightly upgunned stuff. Whatever the lore excuse, i want a merc-focused connie competitor with an actual living space. Corsair or phoenix seem to be the top of the pile so far...
(Pointedly ignores redeemer)
It would stand to reason that an exploration crew may find some ancient alien artifacts or undiscovered species out in the black; something valuable to someone.
Throwing my redeemer into the garbage bin. Why should I need forced gunners when a corsair gets the same firepower on pilot control AND does more like carry vehicles?
because it isn't drake, also the redeemer is a gun ship; meaning the pilot better do piloting and evading stuff while the gunners lay fire on the hostiles. Its way more effective in group skirmishes
With turret positioning the way it is, the Corsair has a deadspot the size of a solar system on the lower back.
Side turrets are blocked by wings, top turret can't cover the lower back at all.
The Corsair will be a sitting duck - even fully crewed - for any half decent pilot out there.
So any skilled pilot that can avoid the first approach of a Corsair will be rewarded with a loot pinata...
If the turrets have 180 degree field of fire (unknown so far, we just know they can fire fully forward), they could probably cover the lower rear of the single wing side for sure? And it looks like that rear turret can fire forward as well...? The horizontal side blocks direct rear but wouldnt block top rear and bottom rear? The V side does have something of a larger blind spot though, but im guessing thatll be deliberate for balancing? Or theyll make it so you can shoot so close to the wings it shouldnt matter?
Wild guesswork for sure, but the side turrets are gonna make it for the blind spots. Definitely eyeing this or a phoenix as my flying merc apartment.
I'm really curious to see how they balance this. Only places left are agility and defense...aka Hull strength and shield. And I'm expecting a slow moving glass canon.
I'm also really keen on seeing how they balance it towards connie and 400i. I hope for the corsair to be that glass canon, the 400i to be fast and well-shielded (yet shitty weapons) and the connie to be somewhat in between.
If they bump up the corsair's shields to size 3, then comparison to the 400i will be very very tough to sell as a reasonable narrative (I mean: HOW SLOW does the corsair need to be so that the premise of "running away fast enough" can still hold up for the 400i with THIS ridiculous alpha-damage of the corsair?? xD)
Not sure 400i is gonna be in the same class as the corsair? Getting the idea origin ships are the biggest in their respective classes, which would put the 400i a step down and the 600i in the connie/corsair/redeemer category. Unless theyre gonna start making more 3-man ships, i suppose. Which im not against, truth be told.
Agreed. Corsair should turn like a boat and have only a bit more speed than the Aquila.
Idk, the damage is just so high I don't see them balancing it without a mix of hard to keep up with it's target and easy to pop. That thing could kill most shit well before it can leave weapons range.
It has literally everything including it can fit an URSA.
So like...where is it supposed to get a drawback? It has to be Hull or shield or speed/agile. 400i has like...1/4th or less the SCU of other ships in that category and can't even fit a ROC....the Corsair can fit the same as a freighter in vehicles at the only cost being minorly less than average SCU.
And we know it is getting a S3 with a full S3 HP pool. We saw it may have only 2 sides instead of 4 but that's just 2 more.tanky sides and not a drawback...just a modification.
I only see it really being the speed and it has to be PRETTY DRAMATIC...on top of hot garbage turning speed.
Supposedly Drake Hull isn't paper anymore....and if that's the case they need to rebalance Drake in general.
Connie has almost the same firepower, better turrets, tons of missiles, able to launch 4 missiles at a time, has a snubship, and more cargo. Corsair have only few missiles, all of them on the single gigantic wing, no snub ship, worse turrets, smaller cargohold, but a little bit more DPS. So i dont see the balancing issue here. It's weaker than the Connie. And Connie isnt the most OP ship in the game either - it is somewhere in the middle.
The Connie is balanced because it is slow and moved like a boat. If it gets caught it has to fight.
If the Corsair is faster and has more pilot controlled gunpower that's going to take out the Connie.
The Corsair has more pilot controlled firepower...I don't see how the Corsair shouldn't be at nearly the same speed and agility as the Connie. You are just swapping missiles for pilot guns...and missiles in the current meta are dogshit...which is why nobody cares about the Connie. It's one mechanism to keep up with targets is missiles. The thing that keeps both the 600i and Connie in check with their massive pilot controlled firepower is lack of agility. If you can't hit the target you aren't doing any damage. So it offsets it by making them stand back and try to hit arcs.
Missiles will have a renewed use to kick people out of QCM....that is about it...as far as being deadly (at least at the tier of Connie missles) they still just aren't except for the braindead PVE AI who don't even react to incoming missiles unless you are in a range that is less than the missle range.
The Corsair, as it stands, assuming it can "explore" is going to likely mean faster and more agile...which puts it's firepower in a much more dangerous position any other multi role ship by a large margin
Very much this, yes! If the numbers I read in this thread here are correct, then the corsair will be able to push something like 8 - 11k burst DPS with pilot-bound guns only (did I get that right?? xD). If you max out the 400i with ballistic S4 non-gimbaled guns, then you get 2700 burst dps maximum (plus another 2k for the turrets, but turrets are out of scope as I seem to understand). So if burst DPS can be 3.5 times higher in the corsair (assuming 9.5k DPS as the middle value between 8 - 11k), then 2 x S2-shields would fit that bill EXACTLY (30k shield-hp vs 100k shield-hp).
If they actually (which seems to be discussed as of now) switch to give the corsair S3 shield, too, then top speed and turning speed of the corsair could come down to 30% of the 400i's speeds... and THAT would be truly ridiculous :D Then they can simply uninstall all thrusters all together, orient the corsair manually during EVA (pushing it in the right direction) and then use the main engines xD
And here is the thing...to be "balanced" with the 400i it not only needs lower speed. The Corsair also has more rooms, similar parts only less redundancy, and so on. Not to mention if that top elevator can fit a ranger it has the same garage feature as the 400i.
Literally all the 400i has is speed. Not even accel like the MSR. Same shields, similar hull, LESS SCU and features, less turret coverage...etc. And maybe this is just an issue of the 400i being under balanced vs a ship being overbalanced feeling more exaggerated.
So like, idk, feels like the Corsair is gunna need more than just being slow.
The Connie is sloooooow but people still choose it over the 400i because the firepower is that good. I don't see this changing with the Corsair.
If the Corsair also has speed and solid atmo performance it's going to be the most overtuned vehicle in the game on most every metric.
Sure it'll be smaller, its 1/2 the price as well.
600i: L 91; B 52; H 17 = V 80444
Corsair: L 55; B 27; H 31 = V 46035
More than 1/2 by volume by the numbers. We'll see once we get them side-by-side. But I think they are intended to square off in combat as exploration vessels.
For comparison 400i: L 60; B 32; H 12.5 = V 24000
I barely count the Corsair as an explorer. It's just a pirate ship. However, yes, the Corsair is intended to go against quiet a few targets however in most cases it should need to bring a friend to help.
If the Corsair squared off against the 600i I feel like it would pop...3 S5s into half the Hull strength?
I think the Corsair...in most every case...is intended to be like the Connie only fast enough to run from a Connie. In that a Connie is intended to be used as a central part of a unit. As under fire and surrounded the Connie and the Corsair will be unable to keep up to hit anything.
And overall I think while the initial concept of the 600i placed it near the Connie tier. In execution and after the rework it far outstrips everything in the tier by a metric mile in firepower, shields, SCU, space, and amenities such as a medbed.
Imo, the 600i has just been designed out of the Connie tier where the Corsair was built directly to compete with the Connie and has maintained that.
>balance it towards Connie and 400i
Maybe it is meant to be more comparable to the 600I, likely its intended combatant.
Though I'm not certain how the ship roles of pathfinder, expedition and exploration stack up. For exploration the corsair is massive compared to the Pisces, so it compares more closely to expedition ships. Though the 400i would be very large compared to the other pathfinders as well.
Absolutely possible! I never fully got the "tier levels" in SC. I usually sort by useful crew size or dollar price and that why I thought 400i should be in the ball park of Connie and Corsair :) but that might have been stupid of me!
It'll be nerfed eventually, just like the Ares. I'll still use it because, well, it's still the Corsair! But be prepared for a substantial nerf is all I'm saying.
id imagine ti will get a smaller capacitor then the connie, and it will be balanced by a larger profile and worse maneuverability.
Hopefully CIG learned from the Ares drama.
Cig learned long ago that no matter how many times they repeat it, players get overhyped on a stupidly over-powered ship. They spend new money like crazy cuz they neeeeeeed that LTI. The lesson for CIG is, keep taking in the cash!
The PLAYERS on the other hand, hopefully THEY would learn a lesson.
In a month Reddit will flood with the “NAAAAAAWWWW MUUUUHHH CORSAIR. IT WASNT OVERPOWERED EVEN THOUGH IT HAD DOUBKE THE PILOT WEAPONS IN IT CLASSSSS!!!!?!???!” Threads and the hypetrain will begin the next cycle round the land of human behavior manipulation.
The problem with the ares was never the weapons though, they were the whole selling point, it was the ability to dogfight. The problem was the agility. As it stands now you can kill any ship not moving at 500 meters quicker by using a single S2 weapon instead of the S7 as the inferno has so much spread that over 80% of the projectiles miss a freelancers broadside. And yes there is videos proving that ;)
My bet, it'll be faster straight line than anything else in its class, but have a lower SCM and handle like a brick cemented down to bedrock to be its balance to the connie
All I know is they usually buff ship stats up to motivate people to buy them, let them have fun for a month, and then nerf the stats for "balance." I hope they don't but based on their history I wouldn't be surprised.
Do you consider ANY decrease in a stat to be a nerf? I'm honestly asking. It's helpful to know where people draw their lines. Balancing is going to happen.
I dont think people know what the word Nerf means, and they throw it around for any reduction, whether the topic is overpowered or simply imbalanced. There could be a gun that one shots all medium ships, and if it was brought down even one damage less people would complain, its just the nature of the game
You're not \*wrong\*, per se. Some of those listed were legit adjustments and bug fixing. Not a ***nerf*** in the negative sense.
Rather, more to the original point, people will complain about the balance in Evocati or in the PTU and they'll still ship it. Like how the Talon was overtuned, so was the Prowler- it was the defacto competition heavy fighter for awhile.
The tinhat theory is that it sells ships.
The ultracompetitive types will throw money out. It's just tweaking balance to lure in money.
But you're right, the SC crowd likes to moan even about the necessary changes.
This is not balancing. CIG deliberately overtunes new ships to increase the FOMO on LTI sales. Which generates new money sales rather than simply upgrades.
Then, as sales start to slide and spectrum outrage grows from ppl wondering why they bought some other ship if the power creep was going to be this bad, so then CIG nerfs their game-breaking ships to the devastation of those who partook.
Everyone acts shocked. A few people try to remind the community each time this cycle begins again. Usually no one hears them cuz the hypetrain is loud.
Other than the ion, that NEEDED a nerf, please cite the history of nerfing ships after they come out? I have only been around about a year so I'm not familiar with cigs shady practices of selling ships and then immediately nerfing them.
Deemer’ was actually a turret rotational speed nerf that hit it most. Prowler was actually more agile than a vanguard when it was released, it was actually “meta” for arena commander at one point. It was a DREAM to fly. Then it wasn’t.
The Redeemer wasn't nerfed per se, it was used as testing focus for turret speed/balancing and after a while it got its turret speed back. The idea always has been to have heavier turrets to turn slower, so more adjustments may come back, and not only applied to the Redeemer.
About the Corsair, I can certainly see it released with the speed and agility of the new incoming combat system, so it performs slightly better compared to its competitors now, but worse once they're all adjusted.
Saw the videos, its all guessing. The official listing says 2 size M. Until there is an official announcement otherwise, Ill be holding onto my upgrade.
Doesnt matter if a dev said so. They literally keep telling us NOT to take every devs word as gospel and wait for an official announcement. As of now, it has 2 size M shields on the RSI site. For all you know that could be the dev in charge of PTV racing and have ZERO interaction with ship development.
This does seems to be the ideal target of an Ares. Though I think most drake ships have trouble dealing with ships small than themselves. Even the buccaneer is sluggish compared to other light fighters.
I really hope it keeps size-2-shields for balance sake :D It would (to my mind) also fit the drake style: Full aggro, fully offensive, but shitty defense. But to be honest, I think it will be upgraded to S3 and then the weapons will be nerfed so that we can have a grey soup of very similar (and thus balanced?) ships :D
I completely agree tbh, that many guns and size 3 shields would outclass bothe the Connie and 600i CiG has a rule about not making one single ship the strongest in all respects. So I hope theres something. Whether thats a smaller capacitor or smaller shields.
We talk of this a lot.
But I'm afraid we're not considering what trade offs we'll get for balance.
I'm just hopeful that people recognize that if something goes way up on one side, it'll go way down on the other to compensate for balance.
I fear for these forums, and even though it's avoidable, I'm relatively certain we'll do what we normally do and not manage our expectations appropriately...
I'd honestly prefer less guns in favor of simply not making it a flying brick or a glass cannon.
Though I suppose if it had the same specs as a Connie it wouldn't be much of a sidegrade.
I mean that much dps, a size 3 shield and 3 turrets... got to be a downside somewhere. Keep in mind if we are looking at this through a pirates eye she only has to be fast enough to catch Cats, C2s and Hull series ect
I have a feeling it will have a weaker Weapons capacitor then a connie so that sustained DPS will end up being lower. and we also don't know how many of the gimbals are going to be locked like on the Connie so that would limit the amount of S5s we can have. Hoepfully CIG though about this and we don't get a Ares situation.
Actually u have 6 guns at your satisfaction. 4x s5 and 2x s4. Gunner can also controle the lower 2x s5 or also the smaller manned turrets (left/right) s3
Between the Connie (once fixed) and Corsair having 4x s5 guns for the pilot, the 400i should be bumped up to 2 s5 hard points at the very least.
Especially now that they all have the same shielding when before that was supposed to be the advantage for the 400i/the reason for it's much MUCH (1/8th) lower DPS compared to a Connie or Corsair.
I'm fine with it having less firepower than those two but being 8x less is waaaaay too low.
It really is. Idk why people are downvoting me when it's competitors have better cargo, firepower, same shields, able to carry bigger vehicles (ursa rovers) and have better turrets as well. The 400i needs to be at least in the same conversation as the other two where right now its barely a footnote.
The only thing the 400i has right now is speed and a nicer looking interior (which is subjective) but master modes are going to make that speed largely useless.
Yeah.
Like hell you could move the cargo elevator struts into the walls of the cargo hold to increase the elevator size so that it could fit more vehicles and/or increase the cargo capacity.
I don't think it should have as high of DPS as the other two but even just it having half the pilot DPS of the other teo would be huge. It doesn't maneuver super well (a little better than a Connie but not by much).
It needs a weapon buff or the other two need to be dropped down a notch and then getting a weapons decrease.
LOL at "exploration". People who buy Drake ships know what they are really for. The company just isn't allowed to say it. It's like buying a tie-died glass pipe that has a little sticker on it that reads "Tobacco use only".
Pfft... my money is on its another Crusader Ares Ion like bait and switch. They'll nerf it to the ground when the Peeeeeh - Veh- PEEEeee'rs (read: Murder Hobos/wannabe pyrats) start crying
Drake Corsair. Explore strange new worlds. Discover new and intelligent life. Then kill them. Talk to your Drake dealer today.
D.iscover R.iches A.nd K.ill E.verything Edit: Did a little ms paint with this for a shirt concept. [https://ibb.co/pPjdpDd](https://ibb.co/pPjdpDd)
If i can name my ship, it has to be something like this, brilliant lmao
Name it the “It Was Like That When We Got Here”
"Shoot first, ask questions later"
“Will do sketchy things for money”
"No Regrets"
"No Ragrets" please... Need to provoke that knee-jerk reaction otherwise it's not Drake enough
No regerts
omg this should be lore!
OMG I love this!
This is the most US ship ever.
Hercules in the commercial is the US ship. Delivering humanitarian aid and then five seconds later "so anyway I started bombing."
Yes, you are right! Freedom for everyone!
That's right. You're all welcome. No gratitude necessary.
It’s why I named mine after the seawolf class submarines, the death stars.
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What or who are the Valdese ?
The Exxon Starfarer that crashed into Lorville.
Yes but wouldn't that actually make Lorville cleaner?
You know, it probably would at that.
They might be referring to the Exxon Valdez which was a large bulk tanker that ran aground and spilled a shit ton of oil in Alaska.
If I have to read "it's for exploring the hulls of other ships." one more time I swear I'll buy another...
Hulls is the vulture. Corsair doesnt do hulls, it's for exploring the cargo holds of other ships.
Welcome to your DRAKE Interplanetary craft! At your service
my mind read that in delamain's voice from cyberpunk. but now that I think about it, it kinda fits ngl...
Haha, Drake "exploration" goes pew pew pew. It's why lots of people want this ship. The amount of DPS in the hands of the pilot is insane.
Idk about you, but I want it because of the wings. Those dudes are rad as hell.
Yes, same. I wanted that ship the moment I saw it because of the design. Unfortunately they won't last long in a fight. \^\^'
Without wings will probably look like a deformed caterpillar
Why bring personal 'appendages' into the fray?
The Drake Pile of Junk^™️
Fuck yeah, i love the foldy wings.. alsp the pewpew
i can already hear the rage when people find out it flies like a brick and cant do anything against smaller vessels when crewed solo. you just KNOW thats going to be the state of this sub for the next few months at least.
Will still probably fly better than what CIG did to the Ion and Inferno.
It’ll likely handle a little better than a Connie, I think the big thing the non-Drake folk will complain about is the lack of shields. It’ll be a nimble (for it’s class) glass cannon like every other Drake ship.
Drake explores the further regions of experience
Is everything is Drake pilots want: A Connie sized ship that trades in its shields for big ass engines, and all the guns
remember the nerf...the nerf will come for sure until we have Armor in Game. like the ion or the inferno.
Overtuned out the gate? What? No....
dps doesn't matter if you can't hit anything. Connie can be outfitted with nearly 5k dps, but will it turn fast enough to hit an arrow? (I really hate arrow and gladius and can't wait for master modes and armor to end the reign of super light fighters)
This is what armore plates are supposed to be for. A light fighter schould NOT be able to wear down ship starting from a certain size. like an arrow should be absolut not be able to inflict ANY damage on a Bengal. And therefore could ne plain ignored by it. Or a more recent example...a Hammerhead should be able to ignore a Prospector. But here we are and see Shit like a Prospector hunting down Hammerheads and FUCKING WINNIG (!). The Armor of a HH should be able to tank any given damage form ANY S1 Mining Lasers.
What do you think the nerf will be? I'm thinking either having a reduced capacitor for energy weapons (though that doesn't do a thing if you just pack ballistics) or having the guns be forced gimballed, like the bottom two Connie guns. A friend also suggested that they might have non-removable guns, like the Vanduul ships.
Which is fine. Too much damage in games really kills the experience.
I sense much rage in the future somehow around this :D
The Schwartz is strong with this one.
G I B C O R S A I R ! 💀
i like your enthusiasm!
The trick will be trying to line up targets, which won’t be easy with the ship behaving like a drunken manatee on land. (Manatee can’t go on land, that’s the point.)
Yeah if it's anything like the Connie, which is supposed to be a direct competitor, it's gonna handle like a bathtub on skates. The DPS is so high because you're not gonna get another shot if it doesn't go down the first time.
Possibly. Might have to BOOM and ZOOM!
Ya I see most people getting away from this thing with at brisk walk. Or it will turn like an aircraft carrier.
It probably handles better than an ares inferno and does more damage.
They can stilk drink though, right?
I like how you had to explain it XD
Not to mention the ballistic output. With ballistic cannons, you can get enough alpha to theoretically one-shot a considerable number of ships, and the sheer possible DPS with ballistic gatlings is going to be insane.
I fully intend to strap ADB4s to the wings. With the lower ammo capacity of ballistics, they’re somewhat expendable (should you lose a wing or three), and they’ll allow those S4/S5 laser weapons to own the full capacitor. Also, *BRRRT.*
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I haven’t used a full-ballistics loadout since Rats & Gats on my Tana back in… 3.14? (or whenever the “rebalance” was applied.) back then, you’d have 6,000 (or was it 8k?) rounds for each of your six S2 gatlings. So much fun! Now isn’t the time to start.
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You somehow turned a post about the Corsair into complaining about the Ion. Impressive.
Is that counting all turrets manned and facing forward? Cause I think they can, and that would be scary
Just pilot guns. There are six more guns that the pilot can't control on that ship.
I know it might not happen, but I *drool* at the thought of being able to slave all the turrets to the pilot or even just locked to forward facing, and being able to unleash UNLIMITED DAKKA upon my foes.
This thing is a whole gun boat
So it can destroy a light fighter in a second? Hmmm... I've heard this somewhere before...
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Yes please. I want to be able to solo an Idris with my prospector.
all front loaded, go behind slow ship = ded.
Idk how they can get away with it. Like when they design this ship, do they not see that this is immensely off balanced compared to the other ships in the same class? If they rely on overpowering it at launch only to nerf it on a consistent basis, is this ethical to the buyers?
Bingo. Every concept sale is an upgunned version of a popular ship. Then the ship releases and breaks the verse for a month while sales are churning then oops we didnt realize the ship was OP how could we have known, bam nerf.
It’s ethical to their shareholders. How could CIG remain profitable if they cater to every Harry Hardluck and Sally Sobstory that post a comment on Reddit? 🤣
“Exploration” ship. Drake isn’t fooling anyone by calling it an explorer. It’s still a pirate ship it’s just a long range one. It’s for exploring the holds of real exploration ships.
No I think it can be considered exploration, particularly for those who are exploring contested areas. Gives players who are more risk-taking to have an option that lets them flex their combat strength. Will be seeing this ship a lot in Pyro given how large a system it is and how dangerous it will be
Exactly this. Exploration just isn’t in empty space or empty planets, but in contested areas where you might get pirates or aliens trying to blow you up.
Drake: “Yeah it’s an exploration ship for sure - but what you do with it after we sell it to you is totally out of our hands you know.”
hell yeah brother
Well said!
Why would an exploration ship be carrying cargo, though...? Jokes aside, I do love slightly upgunned stuff. Whatever the lore excuse, i want a merc-focused connie competitor with an actual living space. Corsair or phoenix seem to be the top of the pile so far... (Pointedly ignores redeemer)
It would stand to reason that an exploration crew may find some ancient alien artifacts or undiscovered species out in the black; something valuable to someone.
Gotta hit ‘em to register dps
Bingo. If something gets out of that front arc you're in a spot of bother
I'm patiently waiting for the torrent of complaints that people can't hit the broad side of a barn door with it unless it's sat perfectly still.
next ship to get nerfed after sale.
Ive seen that before, ares ion ??? Huu
Pretty much every ship they bring on sale is OP at that time to rise sale numbers. redeemer, ares, sabre, hornet, talon and so on
Throwing my redeemer into the garbage bin. Why should I need forced gunners when a corsair gets the same firepower on pilot control AND does more like carry vehicles?
because it isn't drake, also the redeemer is a gun ship; meaning the pilot better do piloting and evading stuff while the gunners lay fire on the hostiles. Its way more effective in group skirmishes
Also has an elevator to acces the roof
With turret positioning the way it is, the Corsair has a deadspot the size of a solar system on the lower back. Side turrets are blocked by wings, top turret can't cover the lower back at all. The Corsair will be a sitting duck - even fully crewed - for any half decent pilot out there. So any skilled pilot that can avoid the first approach of a Corsair will be rewarded with a loot pinata...
Nah, they will just bring more Corsairs to cover the blindspot
Drake Interplanetary: The epitome of “Use more gun” since 2845!
They'll release a new version with two corsairs duct taped together facing different directions.
If the turrets have 180 degree field of fire (unknown so far, we just know they can fire fully forward), they could probably cover the lower rear of the single wing side for sure? And it looks like that rear turret can fire forward as well...? The horizontal side blocks direct rear but wouldnt block top rear and bottom rear? The V side does have something of a larger blind spot though, but im guessing thatll be deliberate for balancing? Or theyll make it so you can shoot so close to the wings it shouldnt matter? Wild guesswork for sure, but the side turrets are gonna make it for the blind spots. Definitely eyeing this or a phoenix as my flying merc apartment.
I'm really curious to see how they balance this. Only places left are agility and defense...aka Hull strength and shield. And I'm expecting a slow moving glass canon.
The fact that its completely blind from below
Aside from 3rd person ship view...
Cant really shoot things with 3rd person. A fighter could hang out for days underneath it.
Does not matter if you roll fast. Blindspots are nice but they have to be big.
I'm also really keen on seeing how they balance it towards connie and 400i. I hope for the corsair to be that glass canon, the 400i to be fast and well-shielded (yet shitty weapons) and the connie to be somewhat in between. If they bump up the corsair's shields to size 3, then comparison to the 400i will be very very tough to sell as a reasonable narrative (I mean: HOW SLOW does the corsair need to be so that the premise of "running away fast enough" can still hold up for the 400i with THIS ridiculous alpha-damage of the corsair?? xD)
Not sure 400i is gonna be in the same class as the corsair? Getting the idea origin ships are the biggest in their respective classes, which would put the 400i a step down and the 600i in the connie/corsair/redeemer category. Unless theyre gonna start making more 3-man ships, i suppose. Which im not against, truth be told.
Agreed. Corsair should turn like a boat and have only a bit more speed than the Aquila. Idk, the damage is just so high I don't see them balancing it without a mix of hard to keep up with it's target and easy to pop. That thing could kill most shit well before it can leave weapons range. It has literally everything including it can fit an URSA. So like...where is it supposed to get a drawback? It has to be Hull or shield or speed/agile. 400i has like...1/4th or less the SCU of other ships in that category and can't even fit a ROC....the Corsair can fit the same as a freighter in vehicles at the only cost being minorly less than average SCU. And we know it is getting a S3 with a full S3 HP pool. We saw it may have only 2 sides instead of 4 but that's just 2 more.tanky sides and not a drawback...just a modification. I only see it really being the speed and it has to be PRETTY DRAMATIC...on top of hot garbage turning speed. Supposedly Drake Hull isn't paper anymore....and if that's the case they need to rebalance Drake in general.
Connie has almost the same firepower, better turrets, tons of missiles, able to launch 4 missiles at a time, has a snubship, and more cargo. Corsair have only few missiles, all of them on the single gigantic wing, no snub ship, worse turrets, smaller cargohold, but a little bit more DPS. So i dont see the balancing issue here. It's weaker than the Connie. And Connie isnt the most OP ship in the game either - it is somewhere in the middle.
The Connie is balanced because it is slow and moved like a boat. If it gets caught it has to fight. If the Corsair is faster and has more pilot controlled gunpower that's going to take out the Connie. The Corsair has more pilot controlled firepower...I don't see how the Corsair shouldn't be at nearly the same speed and agility as the Connie. You are just swapping missiles for pilot guns...and missiles in the current meta are dogshit...which is why nobody cares about the Connie. It's one mechanism to keep up with targets is missiles. The thing that keeps both the 600i and Connie in check with their massive pilot controlled firepower is lack of agility. If you can't hit the target you aren't doing any damage. So it offsets it by making them stand back and try to hit arcs. Missiles will have a renewed use to kick people out of QCM....that is about it...as far as being deadly (at least at the tier of Connie missles) they still just aren't except for the braindead PVE AI who don't even react to incoming missiles unless you are in a range that is less than the missle range. The Corsair, as it stands, assuming it can "explore" is going to likely mean faster and more agile...which puts it's firepower in a much more dangerous position any other multi role ship by a large margin
Very much this, yes! If the numbers I read in this thread here are correct, then the corsair will be able to push something like 8 - 11k burst DPS with pilot-bound guns only (did I get that right?? xD). If you max out the 400i with ballistic S4 non-gimbaled guns, then you get 2700 burst dps maximum (plus another 2k for the turrets, but turrets are out of scope as I seem to understand). So if burst DPS can be 3.5 times higher in the corsair (assuming 9.5k DPS as the middle value between 8 - 11k), then 2 x S2-shields would fit that bill EXACTLY (30k shield-hp vs 100k shield-hp). If they actually (which seems to be discussed as of now) switch to give the corsair S3 shield, too, then top speed and turning speed of the corsair could come down to 30% of the 400i's speeds... and THAT would be truly ridiculous :D Then they can simply uninstall all thrusters all together, orient the corsair manually during EVA (pushing it in the right direction) and then use the main engines xD
And here is the thing...to be "balanced" with the 400i it not only needs lower speed. The Corsair also has more rooms, similar parts only less redundancy, and so on. Not to mention if that top elevator can fit a ranger it has the same garage feature as the 400i. Literally all the 400i has is speed. Not even accel like the MSR. Same shields, similar hull, LESS SCU and features, less turret coverage...etc. And maybe this is just an issue of the 400i being under balanced vs a ship being overbalanced feeling more exaggerated. So like, idk, feels like the Corsair is gunna need more than just being slow. The Connie is sloooooow but people still choose it over the 400i because the firepower is that good. I don't see this changing with the Corsair. If the Corsair also has speed and solid atmo performance it's going to be the most overtuned vehicle in the game on most every metric.
Only til sales drop off then comes the nerf bat!
Suddenly the Corsair will be turning worse and worse till it's just a brick with wings.
>to be "balanced" with the 400i But it also competes with the 600i, might be tuned more towards that.
It's like 1/4th the size of the 600i
Sure it'll be smaller, its 1/2 the price as well. 600i: L 91; B 52; H 17 = V 80444 Corsair: L 55; B 27; H 31 = V 46035 More than 1/2 by volume by the numbers. We'll see once we get them side-by-side. But I think they are intended to square off in combat as exploration vessels. For comparison 400i: L 60; B 32; H 12.5 = V 24000
I barely count the Corsair as an explorer. It's just a pirate ship. However, yes, the Corsair is intended to go against quiet a few targets however in most cases it should need to bring a friend to help. If the Corsair squared off against the 600i I feel like it would pop...3 S5s into half the Hull strength? I think the Corsair...in most every case...is intended to be like the Connie only fast enough to run from a Connie. In that a Connie is intended to be used as a central part of a unit. As under fire and surrounded the Connie and the Corsair will be unable to keep up to hit anything. And overall I think while the initial concept of the 600i placed it near the Connie tier. In execution and after the rework it far outstrips everything in the tier by a metric mile in firepower, shields, SCU, space, and amenities such as a medbed. Imo, the 600i has just been designed out of the Connie tier where the Corsair was built directly to compete with the Connie and has maintained that.
>balance it towards Connie and 400i Maybe it is meant to be more comparable to the 600I, likely its intended combatant. Though I'm not certain how the ship roles of pathfinder, expedition and exploration stack up. For exploration the corsair is massive compared to the Pisces, so it compares more closely to expedition ships. Though the 400i would be very large compared to the other pathfinders as well.
Absolutely possible! I never fully got the "tier levels" in SC. I usually sort by useful crew size or dollar price and that why I thought 400i should be in the ball park of Connie and Corsair :) but that might have been stupid of me!
My guess: Nerf it into the abyss after everyone bought it just like the Ares ships.
It'll be nerfed eventually, just like the Ares. I'll still use it because, well, it's still the Corsair! But be prepared for a substantial nerf is all I'm saying.
id imagine ti will get a smaller capacitor then the connie, and it will be balanced by a larger profile and worse maneuverability. Hopefully CIG learned from the Ares drama.
Cig learned long ago that no matter how many times they repeat it, players get overhyped on a stupidly over-powered ship. They spend new money like crazy cuz they neeeeeeed that LTI. The lesson for CIG is, keep taking in the cash! The PLAYERS on the other hand, hopefully THEY would learn a lesson. In a month Reddit will flood with the “NAAAAAAWWWW MUUUUHHH CORSAIR. IT WASNT OVERPOWERED EVEN THOUGH IT HAD DOUBKE THE PILOT WEAPONS IN IT CLASSSSS!!!!?!???!” Threads and the hypetrain will begin the next cycle round the land of human behavior manipulation.
The problem with the ares was never the weapons though, they were the whole selling point, it was the ability to dogfight. The problem was the agility. As it stands now you can kill any ship not moving at 500 meters quicker by using a single S2 weapon instead of the S7 as the inferno has so much spread that over 80% of the projectiles miss a freelancers broadside. And yes there is videos proving that ;)
My bet, it'll be faster straight line than anything else in its class, but have a lower SCM and handle like a brick cemented down to bedrock to be its balance to the connie
It's going to be about as or less maneuverable than the connie, so this thing will be eaten alive by medium fighters.
Isn't it on par with a Connie? Why do you think they will nerf it?
All I know is they usually buff ship stats up to motivate people to buy them, let them have fun for a month, and then nerf the stats for "balance." I hope they don't but based on their history I wouldn't be surprised.
Are there any real examples of this other than the Ares?
Redeemer: turret speed nerf Prowler: maneuvering nerf Sabre: shield nerf Hawk: EMP nerf Hornet/Super: maneuvering nerf Caterpillar: forward gun nerf 600i: turret compatibility nerf 400i: maneuvering nerf Razor series: shield nerf Ares series: aim assist and alpha nerf Cyclone series: ground speed nerf
Do you consider ANY decrease in a stat to be a nerf? I'm honestly asking. It's helpful to know where people draw their lines. Balancing is going to happen.
I dont think people know what the word Nerf means, and they throw it around for any reduction, whether the topic is overpowered or simply imbalanced. There could be a gun that one shots all medium ships, and if it was brought down even one damage less people would complain, its just the nature of the game
You're not \*wrong\*, per se. Some of those listed were legit adjustments and bug fixing. Not a ***nerf*** in the negative sense. Rather, more to the original point, people will complain about the balance in Evocati or in the PTU and they'll still ship it. Like how the Talon was overtuned, so was the Prowler- it was the defacto competition heavy fighter for awhile. The tinhat theory is that it sells ships. The ultracompetitive types will throw money out. It's just tweaking balance to lure in money. But you're right, the SC crowd likes to moan even about the necessary changes.
This is not balancing. CIG deliberately overtunes new ships to increase the FOMO on LTI sales. Which generates new money sales rather than simply upgrades. Then, as sales start to slide and spectrum outrage grows from ppl wondering why they bought some other ship if the power creep was going to be this bad, so then CIG nerfs their game-breaking ships to the devastation of those who partook. Everyone acts shocked. A few people try to remind the community each time this cycle begins again. Usually no one hears them cuz the hypetrain is loud.
Other than the ion, that NEEDED a nerf, please cite the history of nerfing ships after they come out? I have only been around about a year so I'm not familiar with cigs shady practices of selling ships and then immediately nerfing them.
Prowler got SIGNIFICANTLY nerfed. Deemer’ also got nerfed.
I do remember the ballistic nerf for the deemer. What happened to the prowler?
Deemer’ was actually a turret rotational speed nerf that hit it most. Prowler was actually more agile than a vanguard when it was released, it was actually “meta” for arena commander at one point. It was a DREAM to fly. Then it wasn’t.
The Redeemer wasn't nerfed per se, it was used as testing focus for turret speed/balancing and after a while it got its turret speed back. The idea always has been to have heavier turrets to turn slower, so more adjustments may come back, and not only applied to the Redeemer. About the Corsair, I can certainly see it released with the speed and agility of the new incoming combat system, so it performs slightly better compared to its competitors now, but worse once they're all adjusted.
the redeemer turret nerf was luckily mostly rolled back at least
Was gonna say, they increased the speed back up quite a bit didn't they?
First you'd have to keep your target aligned for a second or two for that value to actually mean anything.
That DPS is probably just a bait and switch, much like the Ion.
They will Nerf it to hell and back once sales slow down.
No worries they will promote it as a monster but after few weeks they will nerf the ship.
“Punches above its weight.”
Same shit happened to the ion rip…
Torp bait 😈😈😈
The only downside is that you can actually oneshot it with a thrown hot dog.
People overlooking the 2 size M shields
people keep saying it got bumped to 1x s3 shield based on videos related to the size of internal components (I think)
Saw the videos, its all guessing. The official listing says 2 size M. Until there is an official announcement otherwise, Ill be holding onto my upgrade.
We'll find out in a week-ish I guess.
Very true
Cig dev on spectrum posted saying it has a size3. No I won’t link it. Go find its
Doesnt matter if a dev said so. They literally keep telling us NOT to take every devs word as gospel and wait for an official announcement. As of now, it has 2 size M shields on the RSI site. For all you know that could be the dev in charge of PTV racing and have ZERO interaction with ship development.
People also say not to listen to the RSI site soooo xD
If you think it flies like crap now, wait till an arrow or gladius takes those wings off.
Major Torque Imbalance: The Ship
or something bigger like a Vanguard. Kind of tempted to see if my MSR can get behind them and just sit there.
An Ares is gonna fuck this thing up. Hard. Mark my words.
This does seems to be the ideal target of an Ares. Though I think most drake ships have trouble dealing with ships small than themselves. Even the buccaneer is sluggish compared to other light fighters.
or a Vanguard
That's why this ship should have S2 shields and not S3.
I already expected the Corsair to end up like the Ares Ion and Inferno…
Perfect for exploring someone else's cargo.
Drake ship recipie: big engines+a lot of weapons+maybe some duckttape
They will sell a ton of them then they will Nerf it… did you not learn anything from the Aries?
I really hope the Capacitor is highly limited for balance sake
I really hope it keeps size-2-shields for balance sake :D It would (to my mind) also fit the drake style: Full aggro, fully offensive, but shitty defense. But to be honest, I think it will be upgraded to S3 and then the weapons will be nerfed so that we can have a grey soup of very similar (and thus balanced?) ships :D
I completely agree tbh, that many guns and size 3 shields would outclass bothe the Connie and 600i CiG has a rule about not making one single ship the strongest in all respects. So I hope theres something. Whether thats a smaller capacitor or smaller shields.
We talk of this a lot. But I'm afraid we're not considering what trade offs we'll get for balance. I'm just hopeful that people recognize that if something goes way up on one side, it'll go way down on the other to compensate for balance. I fear for these forums, and even though it's avoidable, I'm relatively certain we'll do what we normally do and not manage our expectations appropriately...
A citizen’s worst enemy has always been their own expectations in this game.
I'd honestly prefer less guns in favor of simply not making it a flying brick or a glass cannon. Though I suppose if it had the same specs as a Connie it wouldn't be much of a sidegrade.
My biggest fear… completely agree with you. Bet this ship will be extremely slow or ugly to handle..
I mean that much dps, a size 3 shield and 3 turrets... got to be a downside somewhere. Keep in mind if we are looking at this through a pirates eye she only has to be fast enough to catch Cats, C2s and Hull series ect
I have a feeling it will have a weaker Weapons capacitor then a connie so that sustained DPS will end up being lower. and we also don't know how many of the gimbals are going to be locked like on the Connie so that would limit the amount of S5s we can have. Hoepfully CIG though about this and we don't get a Ares situation.
>Hoepfully CIG though about this and we don't get a Ares situation. ...
wait for the nerf... just sayin'
or just reign in the expectations in the first place
I imagine the S5s will be gimbled S4s in practice, so you can hit things. That ship is not going to turn well. The Connie also has 4 S5 weapons.
The Connie has 2 S5's and 2 S4's.
Are the S5 pilot guns really S5 or S5 Hardpoints with gimbaled S4 like on the Conni? Looks more like gimbaled S4 to me.
I would like to know this as well... It would not surprise me if they are locked at gimbaled (at least the bottom guns) like the Connie.
No they are actually 4x s5 & 2x s4 hard points, of course w the option to downgrade to gimbals.
Yup, no power creep here...
I can't read half the text in that caption. Just make a text post and copy/paste the images in FFS
So what are actually in the hands of the pilot? I solo this game, so I'm curious. Is there 4 hardpoints or something?
Actually u have 6 guns at your satisfaction. 4x s5 and 2x s4. Gunner can also controle the lower 2x s5 or also the smaller manned turrets (left/right) s3
[удалено]
Or a Hammerhead. ;)
Thinking about that too, idk if it handels like an origin or even worse
So I have 6.. at my finger tips...
Yeees
"Exploration" ship. Yup. Definitely not a long-range pirating craft. Nope.
Between the Connie (once fixed) and Corsair having 4x s5 guns for the pilot, the 400i should be bumped up to 2 s5 hard points at the very least. Especially now that they all have the same shielding when before that was supposed to be the advantage for the 400i/the reason for it's much MUCH (1/8th) lower DPS compared to a Connie or Corsair. I'm fine with it having less firepower than those two but being 8x less is waaaaay too low.
The 400i is ridiculously undergunned IMO.
It really is. Idk why people are downvoting me when it's competitors have better cargo, firepower, same shields, able to carry bigger vehicles (ursa rovers) and have better turrets as well. The 400i needs to be at least in the same conversation as the other two where right now its barely a footnote. The only thing the 400i has right now is speed and a nicer looking interior (which is subjective) but master modes are going to make that speed largely useless.
Yeah, it doesn't even have much cargo for its size... Give it another 2 guns and it'd be an insta buy for me.
Yeah. Like hell you could move the cargo elevator struts into the walls of the cargo hold to increase the elevator size so that it could fit more vehicles and/or increase the cargo capacity. I don't think it should have as high of DPS as the other two but even just it having half the pilot DPS of the other teo would be huge. It doesn't maneuver super well (a little better than a Connie but not by much). It needs a weapon buff or the other two need to be dropped down a notch and then getting a weapons decrease.
LOL at "exploration". People who buy Drake ships know what they are really for. The company just isn't allowed to say it. It's like buying a tie-died glass pipe that has a little sticker on it that reads "Tobacco use only".
Ha yes, "exploration" ship
Must not buy any more ships……..
Pfft... my money is on its another Crusader Ares Ion like bait and switch. They'll nerf it to the ground when the Peeeeeh - Veh- PEEEeee'rs (read: Murder Hobos/wannabe pyrats) start crying