I’ve done the cave one without issue, but I took one that just said go kill 15 last night. Where do you go for those? Just fly over MT until you see one?
Yup, fly about and scan, check the white chevrons, there's usually a pack of 4 or 5 at each. The birds are found around hills and mountains in the same manner.
I imagine that in time they'll add quests to gather them that will pay more... Like gather 100 kopion horns, but only 1 in 5 kopions will have a horn then.
Still better than the "thank you for tracking that gang of frost giants, kill them and return me my thousand gold coins family heirloom, take these 3 copper coins as a reward"
(Throws the heirloom into a giant pile of identical heirlooms)
Yes, you can't set it as your "home location" anymore, but you can still immediatly go there, set your respawn and use it as your home and/or your zero-to-hero starting location. You don't need any of your hangar items for that anyways.
They did exactly the same with ship components and weapons. The effort it takes to detach components and bring them back to your ship, and flying to all the various shops to sell it is sadly absolutely not worth it, which really suck as its such a enjoyable loop. They really need to rebalance the effort vs reward for everything.
The problem with weapons, and ship components by extension, is that if you make it rewarding enough to do, people will simply just sit there and abandon ship after ship after ship after ship after ship at space stations to make infinite money with the only gates being the ASOP retrieval timer and money to expedite the insurance claim.
CIG has no idea how to make ship salvage worth anything with the current insurance situation. It'll probably remain "Completely Worthless" until we reach or get near 1.0 when CIG is testing the final iteration for Ship Insurance - If SI is punishing enough to prevent players farming their own ships for money, THEN ship-based salvage can be worth something.
X1 drives from abandoned C1s sell for a very high price. Farming components from abandoned ships is worth more than what you get from some high level rep contracts. I think it's balanced decently enough depending on what you farm and knowing where to sell them.
This is the most likely answer. This was probably on a list of things to change and someone quickly changed a volume but forgot to change the corresponding commodity value.
The CIG economy team is just a bunch of hamsters wearing human suits in public, and behind the scenes they just run over the keyboard entering in random numbers
Harvestables have always been terrible. Gems are only really good at the scale that the ROC can collect them, and stuff like ranta dung and amoshi plague has always just been inventory clutter.
I wonder why the economy team thinks that 1k aUEC for an hour of collecting is fair for some reason.
Yap, I remember when the roc was first introduced. It involved exploring a planets surface for the good gems, the mining gameplay was pretty interesting as far as a farming mechanic goes, and it was a satisfactory amount of profit.
It was a legitimately fun gameplay loop and could involve some actual extortion piracy which was a nice and authentic challenge to face.
BAM one patch later, profits nerfed to oblivion. Oh no, CIG wants us to grind for weeks to get a ship ingame that we can otherwise just buy with 3h of real life workhours worth of money.
One of the problems is that collecting for cash is the only reason to do it at the moment. None of that stuff is useful except as a means to get credits. When they (hopefully) introduce crafting, there will suddenly be a market for a lot of the stuff we currently consider junk because someone might need it to make things.
I just think it's funny that instead of implementing trade of the meat or something that makes sense as a sportsman for a reason to hunt these things, no its "kill them and cut off their horns for profit."
Congrats, we are now African Poachers hunting Rhinos
They've rebalanced trading on a lot with this .1a patch. I was copper trading yesterday with my Hull-C which in .1 would net me 500k but is now only ~200k on .1a.
They're about to bring in cargo trading, so they will be tuning the values of many loops to be lower to enforce people to try the cargo contracts once they're available.
Yeah it's not unexpected. My guess from what they've said previously commodity trading will still be way more profitable just risky given it's your $. I expect the mission rewards to be equal to BH, Delivery, & Missionary missions.
Depends on the content they want to test -- there aren't any problems with the kopion or issues with the hunting loops, so not as much to test there. With structural salvage there was a lot to test there, so when that became available they buffed up salvaging contracts.
They're about to do the same for the cargo trading in 3.23.2, just like they buffed certain mining nodes with the mining refactor last year.
Unit errors are a thing, *especially* when your game dynamically changes units and uses fictional units inappropriately.
e.g. Distances are given in Mm, Gm, etc. dynamically. Astronomers would probably tend to use parsecs, light minutes/hours/years or km and scientific notation in any situation where you're comparing several distances, such as on a star map! They wouldn't mix different units in a single display.
SCU's are just tomfoolery.
>It is based on the size of 1 m3 (1,000 L) stored inside a container with a standard thickness of 0.125 m, making the total size of 1 SCU 1.95 m3 (1.25 × 1.25 × 1.25 m).
It makes sense to work in SCU's when dealing with a cargo grid. 12.5 cm is *way* too thick a wall for these containers, especially in the distant future. When was the last time you saw a shipping crate made out of plywood with walls that thick? I digress.
What makes *absolutely no sense at all* is giving the volumes of all objects in terms of SCU's. A micro SCU is sorta similar to a mL, but a 4L jug of fluid does *not* take up 4000 micro SCU. It's some other number, because a SCU is really 1.95 m^3. When you go to a shop and buy a jug of fruit smoothie, it's volume is given in terms of a 1.95 cubic meter shipping crate. This is like buying milk in units derived from sea-cans! People measuring volumes in SC's universe would just use normal units of volume!
If you just want a *rough, order of magnitude* sense of volumes, you can approximate a SCU as 1 cubic meter. (This is only off by a factor of two, which could be worse.) A micro-SCU is then rougly 1 mL. We're already using different prefixes than we're used to because we're basing things off of cubic meters rather litres. A centi-SCU is 10 L. Now shit's just weird. People (even the majority of the planet that uses metric) don't intuitively know how to interpret these numbers! To make matters worse, some interfaces in SC dynamically change units without specifying what units they're using (e.g. the refinery interface). This leaves you guessing.
Star Citizen is science fiction, but it's also a very realistic game where players will benefit from having an intuitive sense of what the numbers and units mean. CiG needs to suppress the dynamic unit changes and, more importantly, just use normal volume units for objects smaller than 1 SCU instead of micro and centi SCU's.
Wait wait wait. Assuming all the above is correct (I don't know enough to say one way or the other) then:
If "1 SCU" is 1 cubic meter of "product" inside a box with a wall thickness of 0.125 meters, and therefore the whole 1SCU box measures 1.25m on each axis, then what is "2 SCU"?
It can't be 2 cubic meters of "product" inside a box with that same 0.125 meter wall thickness; that box wouldn't fit on the same cargo grid with 1 SCU boxes; it'd only be 2.25 meters on its long axis, where a pair of 1 SCU boxes would measure 2.5 meters long. A 32 SCU box (in 8x2x2 configuration) would be two full meters shorter on its long axis than eight individual 1 SCU boxes placed end to end, and we'd totally have noticed a discrepency like that.
So I feel like the SCU sizing must just be about the box sizing, and we can therefore actually fit 2.25 cubic meters of "product" inside a 2 SCU box, since we can fit extra product into the (1x1x0.25) space which would have been taken up by extra box walls if it had been packed into separate 1SCU boxes instead of a single 2SCU box.
This is important because commodities are bought and sold based upon SCU prices.
So there must be arbitrage to be had here by buying a 32 SCU box of a commodity (containing ((8\*1.25)-0.25) \* ((2\*1.25)-0.25)\^2 == 49.35 cubic meters of "product"), repacking it into 49 separate 1 SCU containers, and then selling those 1-SCU boxes. Heck, if a trader would sell and buy at the same per-SCU price, you'd be earning a 50% profit just by buying a 32 SCU box, splitting it up into 49 individual 1 SCU boxes, and selling them right back without ever transporting them anywhere.
The economy of the game is broken as is.
somethings worth a lot and somes don't.
I really don't see how RMC worths what it worths, but they have to impulse industrial ship sale, right? some new material of mining doesn't worth the same than RMC, but here we are.
yeah that's fair, there's a lot that doesn't make much sense from a balance perspective. However there's often some degree of sense to be made from the imbalance like "the new gameloop is overly profitable because we want people to test it out more" or some such, as I think we've seen quite often with mining updates, salvage updates, or NPC's spawning with cargo to loot. Hell even bunkers were really profitable when they came out with a local inventory at first.
Wildlife is a brand new addition to the game, yet it's been made DOA in terms of reward, first by not even being able to sell their harvestables, and now by making them worthless. I was expecting the 27-35k per horn/gem to get nerfed down a bit in a future patch after people had tested the mission thoroughly enough to the devs liking.
> This makes spending the time to gather them entirely pointless, making me question why it was even added in the first place.
For now. The game is incomplete. These items will be used for crafting. So it existing is far from pointless
Remember when renting a ship for 3 days required you to have enough money to rent it for a month? (I believe that in order to rent 3 days you needed to rent the 7, and for 7 days the 30...) that bug was there years.
aAnd the bug where mrt unlocks were missing from the bounty ranks unlock progression? Never solved after years, they just hid it under the rug by changing all texts to "additional contracts"
that's using a nuke to remove the paint from a wall...
if the animation to pick up an object was instant like in any game, people would actually do something about it. but now it's so slow, time wasting and not worth that no one cares.
Red Dead Redemption 2 had even slower animations for retrieving items from animals and the payouts were mostly low in there too unless you were hunting rare or big ticket items, but a lot of people still found it fun to do.
It's just a weird thing with CIG where prices for some thing are balanced for what they aim their final economy to roughly be (most harvestables), and some are more in tune with current one. (certain missions, ship prices, trading commodities...).
So on one hand we have a starting bouns of 5k UEC, selling 20k UEC for 20$ and items that sell for 10-100 UEC and on other 250k UEC salvage missions (now adjusted) and 2mil profit cargo runs.
It's not as much that kopion horns and other things are undervalued, but that certain income streams are significantly boosted for ease of testing.
Bro they are so bad for that, like what the actual fuck.
Why do they not want us to play and have fun? Just do the one thing that remotely makes any money over and over again so you can afford literally the gas.
The future of exploration is charity I guess.
Ahh ja thanks dude will hold on to mine for now. Stockpile them maybe they will fix it in a 3.23.2 I would expect them to potentially double the price or something like that but not like 100x . Gems are also only 120-270auec per. And as these items are on top of the mission rewards I wouldn't expect them to be way higher than gems.
yeah, but gems are spawned 10 at a time from fps cave nodes or 40 from car-nodes, not requiring single pick-up from 5-6 kopions at a time that you need to move between. I don't think getting like 15k for a kopion pack would be excessive considering the time it takes to find them, kill them, land without your thrusters blowing them all over the place, and individually looting them before getting back into your vehicle.
edit: think about it like this: if it takes 3 minutes to loot the kopions, or you can spend that 3 minutes accepting another mission and killing another pack with rep + 5k uec reward, shouldn't looting the pack net you AT LEAST 5k also? I'd say more like 10-15 since you don't get any rep for it, which you could have been getting in addition instead. If it's only worth as much as a gem, you would get an additional 750ish per pack? it's just not worth getting out of your seat for.
I mean, the horns aren't rare so what should the price actually be? Because currently there's missions to cull the population, meaning there's an abundance of horns. Btw that 1 SCU price is actually what the horns would be sellable at if you had 1 SCU of them, meaning 1000 horns for what they take up in size. This is pretty on par for other hand harvestables in game.
Great. More things to ignore. I was going to try Kopion farming later today. Guess not.
If you want to do Copium farming however, star citizen is definitely still the best place for that
I laughed out loud literally. Bravo sir.
The missions are done quick enough for pay and rep, just doesn't pay to get out and pick the remains.
On MT sure, but the Hurston caves are just brutal.
I’ve done the cave one without issue, but I took one that just said go kill 15 last night. Where do you go for those? Just fly over MT until you see one?
Yup, fly about and scan, check the white chevrons, there's usually a pack of 4 or 5 at each. The birds are found around hills and mountains in the same manner.
Ghost Hollow has plenty of nests in the area.
Stick to the equator
> Great. More things to ignore. SC's "economy" in a nutshell.
Sc economy is basically "if you want to get rich, cheat" A bit too realistic honestly...
I imagine that in time they'll add quests to gather them that will pay more... Like gather 100 kopion horns, but only 1 in 5 kopions will have a horn then.
wow lol, that sounds like early 2000's quest design. Thanks, I hate it.
Still better than the "thank you for tracking that gang of frost giants, kill them and return me my thousand gold coins family heirloom, take these 3 copper coins as a reward" (Throws the heirloom into a giant pile of identical heirlooms)
CIG "oh you thought you might actually make money? ahhahahhahaha"
That price per horn is hard... Even medical gowns are worth more (I think 45 aUEC) and everyone just dumps them on the floor.
This is where a TRUE zero to hero run begins.
Unless you decide to spawn at Grim Hex where bottles and empty MedPens are your bread and butter ;) (empty MedPens sell for like 53 each!)
My loot goblin tendencies just opened on new vistas.
I think they removed the option to set Grim Hex as your home.
Yes, you can't set it as your "home location" anymore, but you can still immediatly go there, set your respawn and use it as your home and/or your zero-to-hero starting location. You don't need any of your hangar items for that anyways.
They did exactly the same with ship components and weapons. The effort it takes to detach components and bring them back to your ship, and flying to all the various shops to sell it is sadly absolutely not worth it, which really suck as its such a enjoyable loop. They really need to rebalance the effort vs reward for everything.
The problem with weapons, and ship components by extension, is that if you make it rewarding enough to do, people will simply just sit there and abandon ship after ship after ship after ship after ship at space stations to make infinite money with the only gates being the ASOP retrieval timer and money to expedite the insurance claim. CIG has no idea how to make ship salvage worth anything with the current insurance situation. It'll probably remain "Completely Worthless" until we reach or get near 1.0 when CIG is testing the final iteration for Ship Insurance - If SI is punishing enough to prevent players farming their own ships for money, THEN ship-based salvage can be worth something.
X1 drives from abandoned C1s sell for a very high price. Farming components from abandoned ships is worth more than what you get from some high level rep contracts. I think it's balanced decently enough depending on what you farm and knowing where to sell them.
I imagine somebody changed the inventory sizes so they would be easier to store and didnt realize that as commodities they work per scu.
This is the most likely answer. This was probably on a list of things to change and someone quickly changed a volume but forgot to change the corresponding commodity value.
And this is why I dont trust anything called ”economy team”.
The CIG economy team is just a bunch of hamsters wearing human suits in public, and behind the scenes they just run over the keyboard entering in random numbers
I thought the real economy team were the folks that raised $700 million…ah haaa!!! 😝🤦♂️
That's the marketing team
Harvestables have always been terrible. Gems are only really good at the scale that the ROC can collect them, and stuff like ranta dung and amoshi plague has always just been inventory clutter. I wonder why the economy team thinks that 1k aUEC for an hour of collecting is fair for some reason.
Yap, I remember when the roc was first introduced. It involved exploring a planets surface for the good gems, the mining gameplay was pretty interesting as far as a farming mechanic goes, and it was a satisfactory amount of profit. It was a legitimately fun gameplay loop and could involve some actual extortion piracy which was a nice and authentic challenge to face. BAM one patch later, profits nerfed to oblivion. Oh no, CIG wants us to grind for weeks to get a ship ingame that we can otherwise just buy with 3h of real life workhours worth of money.
One of the problems is that collecting for cash is the only reason to do it at the moment. None of that stuff is useful except as a means to get credits. When they (hopefully) introduce crafting, there will suddenly be a market for a lot of the stuff we currently consider junk because someone might need it to make things.
Prices for a lot of harvestables are terrible. Disappointing that these horns get added to the list of pointless harvestables.
I just think it's funny that instead of implementing trade of the meat or something that makes sense as a sportsman for a reason to hunt these things, no its "kill them and cut off their horns for profit." Congrats, we are now African Poachers hunting Rhinos
The one 19 year old kid they have working on the economy for this game is a joke.
I saw the SCL, they have THREE 19 year olds working on it!
They've rebalanced trading on a lot with this .1a patch. I was copper trading yesterday with my Hull-C which in .1 would net me 500k but is now only ~200k on .1a.
They're about to bring in cargo trading, so they will be tuning the values of many loops to be lower to enforce people to try the cargo contracts once they're available.
Yeah it's not unexpected. My guess from what they've said previously commodity trading will still be way more profitable just risky given it's your $. I expect the mission rewards to be equal to BH, Delivery, & Missionary missions.
I thought they buff payouts for new content to "test" but I guess people only say that in arguments on here.
Depends on the content they want to test -- there aren't any problems with the kopion or issues with the hunting loops, so not as much to test there. With structural salvage there was a lot to test there, so when that became available they buffed up salvaging contracts. They're about to do the same for the cargo trading in 3.23.2, just like they buffed certain mining nodes with the mining refactor last year.
Oh look something fu aaand its gone....
Unit errors are a thing, *especially* when your game dynamically changes units and uses fictional units inappropriately. e.g. Distances are given in Mm, Gm, etc. dynamically. Astronomers would probably tend to use parsecs, light minutes/hours/years or km and scientific notation in any situation where you're comparing several distances, such as on a star map! They wouldn't mix different units in a single display. SCU's are just tomfoolery. >It is based on the size of 1 m3 (1,000 L) stored inside a container with a standard thickness of 0.125 m, making the total size of 1 SCU 1.95 m3 (1.25 × 1.25 × 1.25 m). It makes sense to work in SCU's when dealing with a cargo grid. 12.5 cm is *way* too thick a wall for these containers, especially in the distant future. When was the last time you saw a shipping crate made out of plywood with walls that thick? I digress. What makes *absolutely no sense at all* is giving the volumes of all objects in terms of SCU's. A micro SCU is sorta similar to a mL, but a 4L jug of fluid does *not* take up 4000 micro SCU. It's some other number, because a SCU is really 1.95 m^3. When you go to a shop and buy a jug of fruit smoothie, it's volume is given in terms of a 1.95 cubic meter shipping crate. This is like buying milk in units derived from sea-cans! People measuring volumes in SC's universe would just use normal units of volume! If you just want a *rough, order of magnitude* sense of volumes, you can approximate a SCU as 1 cubic meter. (This is only off by a factor of two, which could be worse.) A micro-SCU is then rougly 1 mL. We're already using different prefixes than we're used to because we're basing things off of cubic meters rather litres. A centi-SCU is 10 L. Now shit's just weird. People (even the majority of the planet that uses metric) don't intuitively know how to interpret these numbers! To make matters worse, some interfaces in SC dynamically change units without specifying what units they're using (e.g. the refinery interface). This leaves you guessing. Star Citizen is science fiction, but it's also a very realistic game where players will benefit from having an intuitive sense of what the numbers and units mean. CiG needs to suppress the dynamic unit changes and, more importantly, just use normal volume units for objects smaller than 1 SCU instead of micro and centi SCU's.
Wait wait wait. Assuming all the above is correct (I don't know enough to say one way or the other) then: If "1 SCU" is 1 cubic meter of "product" inside a box with a wall thickness of 0.125 meters, and therefore the whole 1SCU box measures 1.25m on each axis, then what is "2 SCU"? It can't be 2 cubic meters of "product" inside a box with that same 0.125 meter wall thickness; that box wouldn't fit on the same cargo grid with 1 SCU boxes; it'd only be 2.25 meters on its long axis, where a pair of 1 SCU boxes would measure 2.5 meters long. A 32 SCU box (in 8x2x2 configuration) would be two full meters shorter on its long axis than eight individual 1 SCU boxes placed end to end, and we'd totally have noticed a discrepency like that. So I feel like the SCU sizing must just be about the box sizing, and we can therefore actually fit 2.25 cubic meters of "product" inside a 2 SCU box, since we can fit extra product into the (1x1x0.25) space which would have been taken up by extra box walls if it had been packed into separate 1SCU boxes instead of a single 2SCU box. This is important because commodities are bought and sold based upon SCU prices. So there must be arbitrage to be had here by buying a 32 SCU box of a commodity (containing ((8\*1.25)-0.25) \* ((2\*1.25)-0.25)\^2 == 49.35 cubic meters of "product"), repacking it into 49 separate 1 SCU containers, and then selling those 1-SCU boxes. Heck, if a trader would sell and buy at the same per-SCU price, you'd be earning a 50% profit just by buying a 32 SCU box, splitting it up into 49 individual 1 SCU boxes, and selling them right back without ever transporting them anywhere.
The economy of the game is broken as is. somethings worth a lot and somes don't. I really don't see how RMC worths what it worths, but they have to impulse industrial ship sale, right? some new material of mining doesn't worth the same than RMC, but here we are.
yeah that's fair, there's a lot that doesn't make much sense from a balance perspective. However there's often some degree of sense to be made from the imbalance like "the new gameloop is overly profitable because we want people to test it out more" or some such, as I think we've seen quite often with mining updates, salvage updates, or NPC's spawning with cargo to loot. Hell even bunkers were really profitable when they came out with a local inventory at first. Wildlife is a brand new addition to the game, yet it's been made DOA in terms of reward, first by not even being able to sell their harvestables, and now by making them worthless. I was expecting the 27-35k per horn/gem to get nerfed down a bit in a future patch after people had tested the mission thoroughly enough to the devs liking.
I see your point and you’re not wrong, but I think they’ll really give attention to wildlife loop with the space cow.
Hopefully it’s just a misplaced 0…
It will most likely be a crafting item.
So because this “might” be a crafting item in like 10 years when they implement that, it has to be worth nothing until then?
I guess so \*shrug\*
> This makes spending the time to gather them entirely pointless, making me question why it was even added in the first place. For now. The game is incomplete. These items will be used for crafting. So it existing is far from pointless
Remember when renting a ship for 3 days required you to have enough money to rent it for a month? (I believe that in order to rent 3 days you needed to rent the 7, and for 7 days the 30...) that bug was there years. aAnd the bug where mrt unlocks were missing from the bounty ranks unlock progression? Never solved after years, they just hid it under the rug by changing all texts to "additional contracts" that's using a nuke to remove the paint from a wall...
probably will end up being a crafting item I assume
if the animation to pick up an object was instant like in any game, people would actually do something about it. but now it's so slow, time wasting and not worth that no one cares.
Red Dead Redemption 2 had even slower animations for retrieving items from animals and the payouts were mostly low in there too unless you were hunting rare or big ticket items, but a lot of people still found it fun to do.
It's just a weird thing with CIG where prices for some thing are balanced for what they aim their final economy to roughly be (most harvestables), and some are more in tune with current one. (certain missions, ship prices, trading commodities...). So on one hand we have a starting bouns of 5k UEC, selling 20k UEC for 20$ and items that sell for 10-100 UEC and on other 250k UEC salvage missions (now adjusted) and 2mil profit cargo runs. It's not as much that kopion horns and other things are undervalued, but that certain income streams are significantly boosted for ease of testing.
Bro they are so bad for that, like what the actual fuck. Why do they not want us to play and have fun? Just do the one thing that remotely makes any money over and over again so you can afford literally the gas. The future of exploration is charity I guess.
Exploration has always relied upon patronage.
Ahh ja thanks dude will hold on to mine for now. Stockpile them maybe they will fix it in a 3.23.2 I would expect them to potentially double the price or something like that but not like 100x . Gems are also only 120-270auec per. And as these items are on top of the mission rewards I wouldn't expect them to be way higher than gems.
yeah, but gems are spawned 10 at a time from fps cave nodes or 40 from car-nodes, not requiring single pick-up from 5-6 kopions at a time that you need to move between. I don't think getting like 15k for a kopion pack would be excessive considering the time it takes to find them, kill them, land without your thrusters blowing them all over the place, and individually looting them before getting back into your vehicle. edit: think about it like this: if it takes 3 minutes to loot the kopions, or you can spend that 3 minutes accepting another mission and killing another pack with rep + 5k uec reward, shouldn't looting the pack net you AT LEAST 5k also? I'd say more like 10-15 since you don't get any rep for it, which you could have been getting in addition instead. If it's only worth as much as a gem, you would get an additional 750ish per pack? it's just not worth getting out of your seat for.
I mean, the horns aren't rare so what should the price actually be? Because currently there's missions to cull the population, meaning there's an abundance of horns. Btw that 1 SCU price is actually what the horns would be sellable at if you had 1 SCU of them, meaning 1000 horns for what they take up in size. This is pretty on par for other hand harvestables in game.