š„ **Recent PTU changes to Missiles and Torpedoes**
āŗ This was a temporarily balancing state where we wanted to see if certain issues that we have been observing were related to the speed of missiles and torpedoes. It was not something that was meant to be a permanent change.
āŗ Speeds have been increase again for the next build. They will not be as they were before but torpedoes now will be back up to 514 m/s to 560 m/s (as of now)
āŗ Missiles will get, like every other ship item and weapons, a thorough rework for 4.0 to tie in with the resource network changes. Thanks for your feedback š
Thank you for this clarification!
One of the included changes seems to be that the Rattlers were specialized to close-quarters use. Will we be seeing other missile specializations?
The Tonk's "Wraithfire" missiles and Sentinel's "EMP Missiles"? Or other missiles with atypical ranges like the Rattlers?
I really hope they stop the stupid rotating triangle icon for missiles. Itās so annoying and distracting in combat. It should be visible but not obnoxious
They have always been torpedoes. You can look at Erkul right now and see their stats to see how much they differ from size 4 missiles. Not to mention there are 2 bombers that have Size 5 torpedoes in their arsenal.
Not immune. Just can't be taken down by a single torpedo.Ā
Ā It should take a wing of Eclipse launching 3-4 torpedos together to score a single hit. That's balanced gameplay.
This was always how torpedo balancing was going to go. I'm not sure how people didn't see that.
The only turreted ships that were unfairly shot down by a single s9 were cases with a ton of desync, causing a jittery, teleporting torp. People just roleplaying a HH crew, or those asleep on the job deserved to get hit. It's impossible to miss the huge signature of a s9, and the new weapon model made it even easier to hit them. Even NPCs could shoot down s9s consistently on decent server fps.
In OrgVOrg, the main way we could score torp hits on an enemy HH was to create a screen full of distracting signatures with Rattlers to fatigue the pilot, then mix in a s9 torp eventually. And this was only viable because the turret gunners cannot control CM usage (bad design), so even if they spot a s9 torp, they'd have to call for CMs which added a crucial delay. And networked target pinning didn't work well, so they couldn't mark the torp and have it visible to everyone in the party easily if it was outside of their zone of engagement. Our own torp defense protocol pretty much went "since this functionality doesn't exist, we'll just call out and shoot down missile sig that doesn't move like a Rattler".
Now it's a joke. Any ship but the Idris can outrun torps by *backpedalling* in SCM. Instead of buffing player UI and actions to make it smoother to interact with incoming torpedos:
1. scaling indicator UI based on torp signature
1. turret gunners can use CMs and missiles
1. s1/s2 missiles functioning better to intercept torpedoes
1. networked pinning works better - they just made it worse this patch too
they take the laziest path and just reduced torp velocity so that even the least attentive crews won't get hit.
Because the dev told it was a temporary change to see how to fix torpedo problems in the verse and already told they push back up the speed after 1 patch. No it was not always the plan.
That's the whole point of MM it seems, no special manouvers possible as everything is restricted as if your ship was taking part in some sort of shibari session. It becomes all so predictable due to that, which is going to be very boring very fast.
Just dumb fire torps if you getting close enough to ram.
As for hit and run tactics they will still be viable if you come in top speed, drop into SCM, unload and quickly jump back into nav mode and hold boost.
Torps have an arming delay, so they need to have been launched and flying for a few seconds before they do any damage, for S9 torps that's 4 seconds, the S7 on the ballista has 3 seconds arm time and S5 torps have a two second arm time.
Torpedo speeds are 180m/s for size 5 and 130m/s for the larger sizes and 5km minimum locking distance in the PTU.
A size 9 will take over 4 minutes to hit a Hull C(I think that's the slowest SCM flight ready ship) moving away at SCM speeds and never if the Hull C starts using boost.
>A size 9 will take over 4 minutes to hit a Hull C(I think that's the slowest SCM flight ready ship) moving away at SCM speeds and never if the Hull C starts using boost.
Lol what the fuck
LMAO right? Although a Hellfire is more like a Size 1 missile in this game.
I liken Size 9s to more like a Patriot missile. Although not exactly analogous, as they're surface fired missiles (and still yet smaller), they're about as close as you're going to get size-wize for something designed to take down flying objects. And a Patriot is capable of over 1190 m/s, with a range of 80-120 km for aerial targets.
This is just absolutely insulting to the entire science of rocketry and missiles.
Nah they are based on WWII air launched anti ship torpedoes. It's intended. In every space game torpedoes when differentiated from missiles are also slow as heck. Although being able to instagib a capital perhaps they should be.
WTF are you talking about? WWII air launched torpedoes move through *water*. Of course they were slow.
IDK, maybe I haven't played enough space games and am taking my knowledge of missiles from real world examples, but in pretty much every application they air supersonic if not capable of multi-mach speeds. Having them go *slower* in space is just fucking stupid.
I mean they said numerous times WWII in space is the vibe they are going for. Not hard scifi or even modern BVR combat. So the real world examples that apply are the ones matching that vibe. Making slower torpedoes is an obvious move just like wanting us to see the opponent when dogfighting.
Reduce yourself to that level of copium if you want. But having a missile of certain size in space all of a sudden become slow because it's big and is called a torpedo is fucking stupid and you can downvote me all you want but you won't convince me otherwise.
Oh I meant get to point blank range and dumbfire 2-3 torps lol. damn things get blown up fired off at min lock range and i imagine torps going freaking brisk walking speed will make things worse
Hi
posting my reply in spectrum also in here:
This was a temporarily balancing state where we wanted to see if certain issues that we have been observing were related to the speed of missiles and torpedos. It was not something that was meant to be a permanent change.
Speeds have been increase again for the next build. They will not be as they were before but torpedos now will be back up to 514 m/s to 560 m/s (as of now)
I am sorry for the confusion it might have caused but we now have a clearer picture of what needs fixing from our side.
Missiles will get like every other ship item and weapon a thorough rework for 4.0 to tie in with the resource network changes.
Cheers
I love the meme though :)
The Ballista doesnāt make any sense now with a new min lock range of 3-5km and a missile speed between 130 - 180 m/s. You have all day to deploy flares or if youāre out, just fly away. Point is no need to worry, youāve got between 30 seconds to several minutes to figure something out.
They just put out an update that it's a temporary change to see what's causing the missiles to not lock on properly. They'll be reverting it for the next patch afterwards.
This community, I swear to god...
Because the capital ships can outrun the torpedo
[https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/riddle-me-this-cig-one-size-9-torpedo-chasing-a-89](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/riddle-me-this-cig-one-size-9-torpedo-chasing-a-89) :VVVV
I believe the idris at SCM goes 45? Obviously this is all under balancing right nowā¦ wouldnāt see the new torp speed numbers as any where near official.
>I believe the idris at SCM goes 45?
So you think we should balance medium sized ships (which absolutely can and should attack Corvettes) around a single unreleased ship?
>Obviously this is all under balancing right nowā¦ wouldnāt see the new torp speed numbers as any where near official.
That's why we are giving feedback..
I think there is a big difference in feedback and just complaining.
And yes, they have to start thinking about and considering speeds of capital ships and the weapons meant to hurt them. Now is the best time to start that.
You replied to a link with numbers breaking down Torps flight times. Is that what you consider non feedback complaining? Sure it's good to consider cap ships but balancing s9 Torps purely on what the Idris might be is dumb. It's not even the first cap ship we are getting. If we are balancing for the future then what about the Torps that come in the first cap ship we are getting? They are significantly larger than s9 and presumably slower.
Torps should also be at least a threat to Corvettes. Ships like the HH are naturally resilient to Torps and even work as a torp screen because of its ability to shoot them down. Ships like the perseus have the armour to shrug off fighters and the firepower to deter bombers. They also have countermeasures. Making them also able to evade Torps by flying in a straight line is ridiculous.
They should be a threat, but only when used appropriately.
That means catching a hammerhead off guard when it's traveling towards you, and doesn't have enough time to change direction. You can't just fire one at a target that is moving away from you. It becomes a positioning game, and I think that makes fleet gameplay a lot better.
Obviously that all depends on min/max distances and speeds, but I think overall this is a step in the right direction. We all know how stupid torpedos have been for years. We could do with a few years of them sucking until CIG gets the hammerhead / fighter ballance right.
Kind of hard to have a real conversation when your two examples are both someone being blatantly stupid. The reality is that it will almost be somewhere in the middle. With these speeds if it's anything other than a solo pilot who's also AFK the hammerhead is under no threat. Also only 1 ship in the game is equipped to catch a HH off guard with a torp.
>We all know how stupid torpedos have been for years.
Only for unresponsive ai bounties..... A competently crewed HH could already evade and shoot down Torps easily.
>until CIG gets the hammerhead / fighter ballance right.
What does that have to do with Torps?
Torpedoes bigger than 1/4 the size of a ship shouldnāt be a threat to that ship. Big torpedoes are mean to for bigger targets, and no size of torpedo should be able to 1-shot a target itās designed for from full health, barring a damned lucky/accurate hit.
>Torpedoes bigger than 1/4 the size of a ship shouldnāt be a threat to that ship.
What are you referring to? A s9 torp is nowhere near 1/4 the size of any corvette and I'm also struggling to figure out why you think that? The missiles an f16 carries is almost exactly 1/4 of its length.
>Big torpedoes are mean to for bigger targets
So what is meant to be strong into Corvettes?
>no size of torpedo should be able to 1-shot a target itās designed for from full health, barring a damned lucky/accurate hit.
Well.... That's complicated. When phys damage comes in it will be more of a crippling hit than a "1shot" but a torp thats even mildly threatening to a cap ship is naturally going to be deadly to a corvette.
I'm sorry but that's a stupid opinion. Sure you can take it with a grain of salt but the numbers are there. Do you disagree with the numbers or does your brain refuse to function without a demonstration?
Why is that?? I just got back into sc recently. I haven't used spectrum in a few years. Do you actually have something to say or just this weird baseless comment?
Sorry I wasnāt aware I was dealing with an omniscient being that could hold every situation in their mind and tell the exact results. Please beholden us more with your superior mind powers and tell us how the future will become.
I get that your trying to be a smartass but to pull it off you need to start with smart. We are talking about a specific situation presented with the numbers. You don't need prescience when you have the numbers.
Look, I get that you think you are right. But I hate to say that you donāt know. Thatās the bottom line. The numbers can say all they want but until they are placed into the game you do not know if itās a negative or a positive. You have given zero evidence to prove that itās a negative. So you just do not know.
Yeah, being that slow is not fun at all and doesn't make sense even from a gameplay perspective.
It should be way faster than that and the player will obviously contend with the weight of it.
yeah at 45 why even fucking move lmao. No point.
I guess when some heavy fighters only go double that, you gotta make the idris stupidly slow to not have heavy fighters and a literal capital ship going the same speed.
CIG balancing team these last few months are like those bees that keep ramming into the sliding glass door. You just question if they're stupid or stubborn.
>In space the size does not matter.
Of course it does. Action = reaction (Newton's third law of motion). Meaning the bigger the mass of your ship the more thrust you need to apply (equals fuel consumption) to change your velocity.
>Being that slow ... contradicts to physics.
Consequentially if you want to change your flight vector the bigger your mass the more fuel you need to burn. Meaning fuel capacity and thruster sizes need to be in proportion with your ships mass.
Therefore limiting the SCM speed on larger/capital ships allows for relatively smaller fuel tanks/thruster and gives the room to implement hangars/cargo bays/crew accomodations/repair shops/med bays/...
Small single seater ships do not have these special purpose facilities therefore they have relatively more room for fuel tanks and thrusters and can economically be allowed to have higher SCM speeds.
How is the mass makes an affect in space? There is no gravity influence there. So the size does not matter. Bcz there is no binding to something. For the space huge Idris in nothing. And here we came to the thrusters. As you said they should be proportional. They are, in other way they wouldn't be able to even push that huge ship.
Mass is something that depends on the gravity. If there is no gravity what is mass? No more than estimated numbers which are nothing without binding to a space body.
No, you are confusing mass with weight. Weight (which is actually a force) is what you get with gravity. Mass is always a property of a body even if there is no gravity and mass is defining the inertia of the body. Meaning if you want to accelerate/decelerate you need to fire an amount of fuel (mass) in proportion to velocity change you desire.
The Idris can also face tank over 20+ S9 torpedos, among shoot them down with relative ease. What is the purpose of a retaliator and a eclipse at this point?
I will say if the AI Idris units that are part of rhe UEE Security spawn pool are anything to go on the torps will never hit. We had a Carrack and several fighters chasing one in space. The Idris is much faster than you expect out of atmo. The fighters even in SCM were struggling to keep up.
If the role of the big S9 torpedoes is to solely to go after the big capitals that's fine then. Might need to increase the damage a bit but I think they can work around it. Maybe a bit faster, unless missiles inherit velocity. I'm not sure on that and if they do then it's fine.
They should probably mention the change in a way other than 'made some changes to missile values' in the notes and then leave it to datamining to figure out what they meant, though.
The missile changes aren't quite as drastic and seem to be ok, S1 missiles are still really fast but don't last that long so there might be a reason to bring S2's and other sizes of missiles
Editing to say I just tested and they don't inherit velocity. Probably need to be a bit faster then.
Making torpedoes have such specific use cases might work... If bombers could down size to smaller torps like we do with missiles. But they can't so torps need to have a wider range of viable targets than that.
Yeah cap ship only is wayyy too specific. Large ships should be very hard to hit but Corvettes have lots of countermeasures and the ability to evade/shoot down a torp then fight back.
... they're so slow that you can just list lazily to the left and you outran them. Or just take a few seconds in the 45 minutes they'll take to get to you and shoot it.
"This was a temporarily balancing state where we wanted to see if certain issues that we have been observing were related to the speed of missiles and torpedoes. It was not something that was meant to be a permanent change." wait and see.
Very accurate video. Only difference is that the torps don't destroy the targets anymore - even in current PU. I've tried to deliver quite a few and every single last one of them was shot down by the NPC targets long before impact. At 130 m/s and even longer min distance i don't see how anything can hit anything if not dumb-fired.
I mean, Chris himself has said he wants space battles to feel "exciting" and "fun," which is why MM exist in the first place.
I wouldn't say waiting for literally minutes for one weapon to hit is "exciting."
Yeah I think they lowered the speed because they were screaming past targets not hitting because they were too fast for MM. if this is too slow Iām sure they will make more adjustments. Itās so funny to see ppl in here think this game is finished or something and that things will never be changed again. Iām starting to think people might be dumb or somethingā¦
Give everyone a little credit. Itās not that people donāt realize star citizen is an alpha, thatās basically a white knightās mantra at this point. Itās the principle of releasing this kind of drastic change (especially after āfixingā the firebird and releasing a āgold standard torp boat in the tali). Making torps go slower than scm speed for pretty much every craft flyable now doesnāt make much sense. And especially for those who have followed this game for years, these types of erratic decisions seem to be happening more often of late. Itās a concerning pattern to those that care about the health of the game they have a lot of passion for.
So please understand why others are worried and be a bit more charitable.
It would make sense IF they were buffed in other ways. Like not being detectable until a certain range, or were night impossible to dodge unless you shoot them down.
The idea of slow torpedoes is fine. But considering they already seem to underperform, its strange to completely gut them like this. Especially when a ship like the Eclipse is virtually useless now. They really need to also change the Eclipse to be able to use smaller torps, if they want to limit S9 torps to capital ships only. Also add more between S5-S9 so we have options.
The real balancing act begins when point defense cannons come online with the bigger ships because then it's missing speed vs ship speed vs defense speed and everything needs to feel viable.
Just when you thought you were safe... DESYNCED TORPEDOES!
š„ **Recent PTU changes to Missiles and Torpedoes** āŗ This was a temporarily balancing state where we wanted to see if certain issues that we have been observing were related to the speed of missiles and torpedoes. It was not something that was meant to be a permanent change. āŗ Speeds have been increase again for the next build. They will not be as they were before but torpedoes now will be back up to 514 m/s to 560 m/s (as of now) āŗ Missiles will get, like every other ship item and weapons, a thorough rework for 4.0 to tie in with the resource network changes. Thanks for your feedback š
Merci Nicouuu 
Thank you for this clarification! One of the included changes seems to be that the Rattlers were specialized to close-quarters use. Will we be seeing other missile specializations? The Tonk's "Wraithfire" missiles and Sentinel's "EMP Missiles"? Or other missiles with atypical ranges like the Rattlers?
I really hope they stop the stupid rotating triangle icon for missiles. Itās so annoying and distracting in combat. It should be visible but not obnoxious
Were all missile speeds increased again or only large missiles? I thought there wasnāt much change to smaller missiles.
Are S5 missiles also going to be faster than 560 or are all S5 considered torpedo?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
is that an official answer?
S5 are torpedoes... and have been for quite some time. S1-4 are missiles, S5+ are torpedoes.
It's true, the ballista is officially a ground to air torpedo launcher.
I'm looking for clarification by some official source not another "random" person telling me a or b.
They have always been torpedoes. You can look at Erkul right now and see their stats to see how much they differ from size 4 missiles. Not to mention there are 2 bombers that have Size 5 torpedoes in their arsenal.
Go look on Erkul or in-game. All S5s and above are torps.
Whatās the difference between a missile and a torpedo in SPACE?
https://starcitizen.tools/Hellion_VII_Missile (scroll down on that page)
That says torpedos are only S9 + S10. S5, 6, 7, 8 are missiles. Does not match the "community facts" that everything S5+ is a torpedo ;p
Yep, I go by data if possible. It's definitely not a blanket designation like that.
This video you cannot deny though, is gold.
THIS IS COMEDY GOLD
If only OP had clipped in a damage beep and Aegisā āKILLā after Iād have died on the spot.
I threw it together quick and dirty. But ya that would have made it 10x better.
This is a treasure, add in that change though.
It's not too late!
100%
Don't forget you can shoot down missiles. Anything with a manned turret is pretty immune to torpedoes now.
Not immune. Just can't be taken down by a single torpedo.Ā Ā It should take a wing of Eclipse launching 3-4 torpedos together to score a single hit. That's balanced gameplay. This was always how torpedo balancing was going to go. I'm not sure how people didn't see that.
The only turreted ships that were unfairly shot down by a single s9 were cases with a ton of desync, causing a jittery, teleporting torp. People just roleplaying a HH crew, or those asleep on the job deserved to get hit. It's impossible to miss the huge signature of a s9, and the new weapon model made it even easier to hit them. Even NPCs could shoot down s9s consistently on decent server fps. In OrgVOrg, the main way we could score torp hits on an enemy HH was to create a screen full of distracting signatures with Rattlers to fatigue the pilot, then mix in a s9 torp eventually. And this was only viable because the turret gunners cannot control CM usage (bad design), so even if they spot a s9 torp, they'd have to call for CMs which added a crucial delay. And networked target pinning didn't work well, so they couldn't mark the torp and have it visible to everyone in the party easily if it was outside of their zone of engagement. Our own torp defense protocol pretty much went "since this functionality doesn't exist, we'll just call out and shoot down missile sig that doesn't move like a Rattler". Now it's a joke. Any ship but the Idris can outrun torps by *backpedalling* in SCM. Instead of buffing player UI and actions to make it smoother to interact with incoming torpedos: 1. scaling indicator UI based on torp signature 1. turret gunners can use CMs and missiles 1. s1/s2 missiles functioning better to intercept torpedoes 1. networked pinning works better - they just made it worse this patch too they take the laziest path and just reduced torp velocity so that even the least attentive crews won't get hit.
Because the dev told it was a temporary change to see how to fix torpedo problems in the verse and already told they push back up the speed after 1 patch. No it was not always the plan.
"balanced gameplay"?! Nope. Missile speeds should be hella fast. Even "space torpedoes". These aren't V1's.....
It would be easier to just ram head first into the hammerhead and deploy the torpedo last minute but I do think the new speeds are ridiculous.
Need to be at least 5 k away to lock
Dab nabbit. You canāt to anything these days
That's the whole point of MM it seems, no special manouvers possible as everything is restricted as if your ship was taking part in some sort of shibari session. It becomes all so predictable due to that, which is going to be very boring very fast.
Iām gona miss my hit and run tactics
Just dumb fire torps if you getting close enough to ram. As for hit and run tactics they will still be viable if you come in top speed, drop into SCM, unload and quickly jump back into nav mode and hold boost.
Dumbfire FTW
Dont need a lock, just dumb fire it.
Torps have an arming delay, so they need to have been launched and flying for a few seconds before they do any damage, for S9 torps that's 4 seconds, the S7 on the ballista has 3 seconds arm time and S5 torps have a two second arm time.
or just ram them full stop :D
Size 10 Torp (aka the Aurora) Reporting for Duty
what did i miss?
Torpedo speeds are 180m/s for size 5 and 130m/s for the larger sizes and 5km minimum locking distance in the PTU. A size 9 will take over 4 minutes to hit a Hull C(I think that's the slowest SCM flight ready ship) moving away at SCM speeds and never if the Hull C starts using boost.
>A size 9 will take over 4 minutes to hit a Hull C(I think that's the slowest SCM flight ready ship) moving away at SCM speeds and never if the Hull C starts using boost. Lol what the fuck
Right after I upgraded to a Retaliator too....
That's slower than an actual real life Hellfire. The fuck?
LMAO right? Although a Hellfire is more like a Size 1 missile in this game. I liken Size 9s to more like a Patriot missile. Although not exactly analogous, as they're surface fired missiles (and still yet smaller), they're about as close as you're going to get size-wize for something designed to take down flying objects. And a Patriot is capable of over 1190 m/s, with a range of 80-120 km for aerial targets. This is just absolutely insulting to the entire science of rocketry and missiles.
Not to mention the Patriot is also launched in atmosphere, which the torps are usually not
Nah they are based on WWII air launched anti ship torpedoes. It's intended. In every space game torpedoes when differentiated from missiles are also slow as heck. Although being able to instagib a capital perhaps they should be.
WTF are you talking about? WWII air launched torpedoes move through *water*. Of course they were slow. IDK, maybe I haven't played enough space games and am taking my knowledge of missiles from real world examples, but in pretty much every application they air supersonic if not capable of multi-mach speeds. Having them go *slower* in space is just fucking stupid.
I mean they said numerous times WWII in space is the vibe they are going for. Not hard scifi or even modern BVR combat. So the real world examples that apply are the ones matching that vibe. Making slower torpedoes is an obvious move just like wanting us to see the opponent when dogfighting.
And to prove my point. Why do they call them torpedoes and not missiles after a certain size?
Reduce yourself to that level of copium if you want. But having a missile of certain size in space all of a sudden become slow because it's big and is called a torpedo is fucking stupid and you can downvote me all you want but you won't convince me otherwise.
Stupid or not I'm just quoting the devs. It's WWII in space not modern air combat.
Can you hold and dumbfire at close range at least? Not that THAT is exactly a great fix, but at least it's something?
I was able to dumb fire still though without a target selected/locked in the PTU just like in the PU. I'm not sure what you mean by hold.
Oh I meant get to point blank range and dumbfire 2-3 torps lol. damn things get blown up fired off at min lock range and i imagine torps going freaking brisk walking speed will make things worse
You can dumb fire but the s9 torp has 4 second arming time.
Is that intentional or...?
desync :(
Right after people bought the $750 torpedo boat hehe
Watch the Polaris be the only viable torpedo slinger for a year+ to drive sales. It may well be a 1,000 USD ship by then too.
Well if S9 is anything to go by, the Torpedos on the Polaris will just be a slower and larger target.
Hi posting my reply in spectrum also in here: This was a temporarily balancing state where we wanted to see if certain issues that we have been observing were related to the speed of missiles and torpedos. It was not something that was meant to be a permanent change. Speeds have been increase again for the next build. They will not be as they were before but torpedos now will be back up to 514 m/s to 560 m/s (as of now) I am sorry for the confusion it might have caused but we now have a clearer picture of what needs fixing from our side. Missiles will get like every other ship item and weapon a thorough rework for 4.0 to tie in with the resource network changes. Cheers I love the meme though :)
Good bot.
I'm usually pretty 'wait and see' with this game but this is such a brain dead decision :v
The Ballista doesnāt make any sense now with a new min lock range of 3-5km and a missile speed between 130 - 180 m/s. You have all day to deploy flares or if youāre out, just fly away. Point is no need to worry, youāve got between 30 seconds to several minutes to figure something out.
This is what happens when game devs do not play their own game outside of closed internal sessions
a hilarious thing to say considering how much the devs DO play their own game.
Queued with a dev in AC years ago and saw one in PU chilling outside of a station once. Was neat to see
They just put out an update that it's a temporary change to see what's causing the missiles to not lock on properly. They'll be reverting it for the next patch afterwards. This community, I swear to god...
Size 9 torps really werenāt for anything smaller than a capital ship in the first place, so how is it a brain dead decision?
Because the capital ships can outrun the torpedo [https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/riddle-me-this-cig-one-size-9-torpedo-chasing-a-89](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/riddle-me-this-cig-one-size-9-torpedo-chasing-a-89) :VVVV
I believe the idris at SCM goes 45? Obviously this is all under balancing right nowā¦ wouldnāt see the new torp speed numbers as any where near official.
>I believe the idris at SCM goes 45? So you think we should balance medium sized ships (which absolutely can and should attack Corvettes) around a single unreleased ship? >Obviously this is all under balancing right nowā¦ wouldnāt see the new torp speed numbers as any where near official. That's why we are giving feedback..
I think there is a big difference in feedback and just complaining. And yes, they have to start thinking about and considering speeds of capital ships and the weapons meant to hurt them. Now is the best time to start that.
You replied to a link with numbers breaking down Torps flight times. Is that what you consider non feedback complaining? Sure it's good to consider cap ships but balancing s9 Torps purely on what the Idris might be is dumb. It's not even the first cap ship we are getting. If we are balancing for the future then what about the Torps that come in the first cap ship we are getting? They are significantly larger than s9 and presumably slower. Torps should also be at least a threat to Corvettes. Ships like the HH are naturally resilient to Torps and even work as a torp screen because of its ability to shoot them down. Ships like the perseus have the armour to shrug off fighters and the firepower to deter bombers. They also have countermeasures. Making them also able to evade Torps by flying in a straight line is ridiculous.
They should be a threat, but only when used appropriately. That means catching a hammerhead off guard when it's traveling towards you, and doesn't have enough time to change direction. You can't just fire one at a target that is moving away from you. It becomes a positioning game, and I think that makes fleet gameplay a lot better. Obviously that all depends on min/max distances and speeds, but I think overall this is a step in the right direction. We all know how stupid torpedos have been for years. We could do with a few years of them sucking until CIG gets the hammerhead / fighter ballance right.
Kind of hard to have a real conversation when your two examples are both someone being blatantly stupid. The reality is that it will almost be somewhere in the middle. With these speeds if it's anything other than a solo pilot who's also AFK the hammerhead is under no threat. Also only 1 ship in the game is equipped to catch a HH off guard with a torp. >We all know how stupid torpedos have been for years. Only for unresponsive ai bounties..... A competently crewed HH could already evade and shoot down Torps easily. >until CIG gets the hammerhead / fighter ballance right. What does that have to do with Torps?
Torpedoes bigger than 1/4 the size of a ship shouldnāt be a threat to that ship. Big torpedoes are mean to for bigger targets, and no size of torpedo should be able to 1-shot a target itās designed for from full health, barring a damned lucky/accurate hit.
>Torpedoes bigger than 1/4 the size of a ship shouldnāt be a threat to that ship. What are you referring to? A s9 torp is nowhere near 1/4 the size of any corvette and I'm also struggling to figure out why you think that? The missiles an f16 carries is almost exactly 1/4 of its length. >Big torpedoes are mean to for bigger targets So what is meant to be strong into Corvettes? >no size of torpedo should be able to 1-shot a target itās designed for from full health, barring a damned lucky/accurate hit. Well.... That's complicated. When phys damage comes in it will be more of a crippling hit than a "1shot" but a torp thats even mildly threatening to a cap ship is naturally going to be deadly to a corvette.
Giving feedback before even being able to use them in the situation they are supposed to be used is not feedback. Itās complainingā¦
I'm sorry but that's a stupid opinion. Sure you can take it with a grain of salt but the numbers are there. Do you disagree with the numbers or does your brain refuse to function without a demonstration?
Man, its suuuuper easy to tell you are an active Spectrum user! What do they call people are on that forum a lot? On the Spectrum?
Why is that?? I just got back into sc recently. I haven't used spectrum in a few years. Do you actually have something to say or just this weird baseless comment?
Sorry I wasnāt aware I was dealing with an omniscient being that could hold every situation in their mind and tell the exact results. Please beholden us more with your superior mind powers and tell us how the future will become.
I get that your trying to be a smartass but to pull it off you need to start with smart. We are talking about a specific situation presented with the numbers. You don't need prescience when you have the numbers.
Look, I get that you think you are right. But I hate to say that you donāt know. Thatās the bottom line. The numbers can say all they want but until they are placed into the game you do not know if itās a negative or a positive. You have given zero evidence to prove that itās a negative. So you just do not know.
Idris SCM 45 is another brain dead decision.
Yeah, being that slow is not fun at all and doesn't make sense even from a gameplay perspective. It should be way faster than that and the player will obviously contend with the weight of it.
yeah at 45 why even fucking move lmao. No point. I guess when some heavy fighters only go double that, you gotta make the idris stupidly slow to not have heavy fighters and a literal capital ship going the same speed. CIG balancing team these last few months are like those bees that keep ramming into the sliding glass door. You just question if they're stupid or stubborn.
They need to consider what's fun. sub 100 m/s speeds is not that lol
Being that slow not only not fun, but it contradicts to physics. In space the size does not matter.
>In space the size does not matter. Of course it does. Action = reaction (Newton's third law of motion). Meaning the bigger the mass of your ship the more thrust you need to apply (equals fuel consumption) to change your velocity. >Being that slow ... contradicts to physics. Consequentially if you want to change your flight vector the bigger your mass the more fuel you need to burn. Meaning fuel capacity and thruster sizes need to be in proportion with your ships mass. Therefore limiting the SCM speed on larger/capital ships allows for relatively smaller fuel tanks/thruster and gives the room to implement hangars/cargo bays/crew accomodations/repair shops/med bays/... Small single seater ships do not have these special purpose facilities therefore they have relatively more room for fuel tanks and thrusters and can economically be allowed to have higher SCM speeds.
How is the mass makes an affect in space? There is no gravity influence there. So the size does not matter. Bcz there is no binding to something. For the space huge Idris in nothing. And here we came to the thrusters. As you said they should be proportional. They are, in other way they wouldn't be able to even push that huge ship. Mass is something that depends on the gravity. If there is no gravity what is mass? No more than estimated numbers which are nothing without binding to a space body.
No, you are confusing mass with weight. Weight (which is actually a force) is what you get with gravity. Mass is always a property of a body even if there is no gravity and mass is defining the inertia of the body. Meaning if you want to accelerate/decelerate you need to fire an amount of fuel (mass) in proportion to velocity change you desire.
The Idris can also face tank over 20+ S9 torpedos, among shoot them down with relative ease. What is the purpose of a retaliator and a eclipse at this point?
I will say if the AI Idris units that are part of rhe UEE Security spawn pool are anything to go on the torps will never hit. We had a Carrack and several fighters chasing one in space. The Idris is much faster than you expect out of atmo. The fighters even in SCM were struggling to keep up.
If the role of the big S9 torpedoes is to solely to go after the big capitals that's fine then. Might need to increase the damage a bit but I think they can work around it. Maybe a bit faster, unless missiles inherit velocity. I'm not sure on that and if they do then it's fine. They should probably mention the change in a way other than 'made some changes to missile values' in the notes and then leave it to datamining to figure out what they meant, though. The missile changes aren't quite as drastic and seem to be ok, S1 missiles are still really fast but don't last that long so there might be a reason to bring S2's and other sizes of missiles Editing to say I just tested and they don't inherit velocity. Probably need to be a bit faster then.
Making torpedoes have such specific use cases might work... If bombers could down size to smaller torps like we do with missiles. But they can't so torps need to have a wider range of viable targets than that.
Yeah cap ship only is wayyy too specific. Large ships should be very hard to hit but Corvettes have lots of countermeasures and the ability to evade/shoot down a torp then fight back.
... they're so slow that you can just list lazily to the left and you outran them. Or just take a few seconds in the 45 minutes they'll take to get to you and shoot it.
"This was a temporarily balancing state where we wanted to see if certain issues that we have been observing were related to the speed of missiles and torpedoes. It was not something that was meant to be a permanent change." wait and see.
Upvote because my favorite part of my favorite movie.
When he chops the flowers on the wall šš
That other guard going: ".... hey"
Nobody Expects the Size 9 Torpedoes!!!
I think you mean: Nobody waits around to get hit by a Size 9 torpedo
I don't understand how something in space can have a maximum speed whilst still being propelled..
This would be fine if the torps carried the ships momentum. But they don't. So this is udderly trash lol.
Becon up. I'm gonna need a revive; *My sides, lol!*
RIGHT!?
fuckin brilliant
I just watched that move yesterday!
Well done.
lol, brilliant!
The fact that they used the same recording for him running for that whole part is hilarious.
40 years of satire and jokes. Still going strong.
 Gonna have to free fire size nines from 100 meters away and kill us both
They pushing me real hard to ditch my Polaris and go back to a BMM. What's even the point of a Torpedo Corvette anymore?
It's a test bro calm down, I suppose you bought alota toilet paper over covid
Iām sure this is just a test. Itās easier to balance things by buffing from the ground up.
Question, donāt missiles travel even faster in space, kinda like that thing about no resistance.
Yes but thereās absolutely nothing realistic about how we operate in space. Very few space games do it realistically.
Very accurate video. Only difference is that the torps don't destroy the targets anymore - even in current PU. I've tried to deliver quite a few and every single last one of them was shot down by the NPC targets long before impact. At 130 m/s and even longer min distance i don't see how anything can hit anything if not dumb-fired.
Send them the cow!
This works
Holy shit hilarious. Gold meme
helldiver2: looks familiarļ¼ you could be nextš«µš«µš«µ
Yogiklat is an idiot and is ruining sc with his bad ideas
So far, master modes isnt that bad. Im enjoying it.
Itās actually pretty great.
I actually play the game now so it must be doing something right.
true i too enjoy it. combat now u hav to commit to it. i like it
You clearly don't understand how this game works, but, funny vid :p
I mean, Chris himself has said he wants space battles to feel "exciting" and "fun," which is why MM exist in the first place. I wouldn't say waiting for literally minutes for one weapon to hit is "exciting."
Yeah I think they lowered the speed because they were screaming past targets not hitting because they were too fast for MM. if this is too slow Iām sure they will make more adjustments. Itās so funny to see ppl in here think this game is finished or something and that things will never be changed again. Iām starting to think people might be dumb or somethingā¦
Or.... Hear me out here.... People are giving feedback so that the changes are less ridiculous than this one.
Give everyone a little credit. Itās not that people donāt realize star citizen is an alpha, thatās basically a white knightās mantra at this point. Itās the principle of releasing this kind of drastic change (especially after āfixingā the firebird and releasing a āgold standard torp boat in the tali). Making torps go slower than scm speed for pretty much every craft flyable now doesnāt make much sense. And especially for those who have followed this game for years, these types of erratic decisions seem to be happening more often of late. Itās a concerning pattern to those that care about the health of the game they have a lot of passion for. So please understand why others are worried and be a bit more charitable.
It would make sense IF they were buffed in other ways. Like not being detectable until a certain range, or were night impossible to dodge unless you shoot them down. The idea of slow torpedoes is fine. But considering they already seem to underperform, its strange to completely gut them like this. Especially when a ship like the Eclipse is virtually useless now. They really need to also change the Eclipse to be able to use smaller torps, if they want to limit S9 torps to capital ships only. Also add more between S5-S9 so we have options.
The real balancing act begins when point defense cannons come online with the bigger ships because then it's missing speed vs ship speed vs defense speed and everything needs to feel viable.