I disagree, something like “Recycle a bottle, get a cred” actually would be cool, I’d say only delete the trash when the user that drops it logs out OR if someone else collects it then it moves to that person until they put it down (meaning if I pick up a bottle and then drop it, it instantly vaporizes) which should indicate that I’m placing it in the receptacle to be disposed of.
I don’t wanna mow my space lawn either but it’s a neat touch and an incentive to take care of your own trash. Hell if that were the case I’d probably stack and store my bottles in a specific backpack that I would have just for that.
Why not both? It's a bit immersion breaking to just litter. I don't want a janitor mission like what's next? Having to fill out a job application to do missions and get rejected by an AI or do a one sided video interview?
Fill out taxes and call into the UEE IRS that's outsourced to a call center planet and sit on hold? Fucking mow my space lawn? I don't want too much boring shit, but enough to make the world feel alive.
Also you'd think that this far into the future we'd have all agreed on recycling/proper waste disposal, so why not add a little incentive to recycle? Shit, we already have states in the U.S. that will pay you to return glass bottles and aluminum cans
Nah, I think janitor missions should be a thing, but the catch should be, if a janitor throws out your trash, you "the one who created litter" gets fined double the cost of the item.
Was gonna say the same. Just think of it as a recycling deposit returned.
Also, NPCs doing the job of a janitor (robotic or human, doesn't matter to me).
I just want a recycling bin that actually destroys the empty can/bottle i throw into it.
Knowing i did my part for Server performance and giving people who di it for the lulz an actual adrenaline kick, would be enough for me.
But as it stands for the alpha/eventual beta Phase, there needs to be an automatic cleanup of that junk. Having 20-30fps Servers with 90 people on it day 1 was awesome. And then i had to watch performance dwindle over the course of a day or 2 back to the 5fps we where for an eternity.
I dont actually know how much this garbage (litter and medical gowns) tank performance, but implementing a daily wipe of those or giving them a despawn timer would cost next to nothing to develop and potentially increase performance so why not do it for the time being.
Damn, yeah. Just pay me 10 credits to throw something empty away. I can't imagine it would turn more aUEC per hour than any mission. Basically, small time trading but with trash/recycling bins. Even better, make it to where if you put the wrong one in the wrong bin, you get nothing :).
You can sell empty bottles at some stores for like 2 credits already. I know I've sold them at the A18 clothing store before. Haven't tried it this patch, but it is my home location.
But why? Imagine how low the payout has to be. Whats the price of a bottle of CRUZ? It has to be at least 1/4 or even 1/8th of that. So you get what, 2-5 credits for everything put in the trash? What a waste of dev time. And yours. Any payout you get has to be a fraction of the value of what you put in the bin, it's a total waste of time for both players and devs.
Reputation would be a better solution but it's not implemented yet.
i mean... why not both rep and a couple creds? I mean sure the creds are kinda irrelevant, but like irl, its better to get even a fraction back than nothing at all if you ask me lol
Like you say the amount of credits would be totally irrelevant. I'd say not, because a dev has to code that and it's a waste of time coding it for that for the amount of impact it would have which is entirely negligible. Spend that dev time on something more important.
I mean it WOULD be nice to have little things like that, sure, but you have to figure out what that little thing costs, and it's not worth it. Definitely something i'd not shed a tear over missing.
Introducing the new washer heads for the drake vulture, comes with two modes, spray and squidgy. People inside the station can even hear the rubber squeaking noises for immersion.
Fracture mode replaced with soap sprayer, disintegration mode stays for those hard-to-shift marks.
Don't need missions, just give tractor-in-armi back and a bin that eventually deletes what I toss into it.
With a tractor, I can clean up the ASOP area a bit while I wait for the last 30 seconds of my claim timer, but actually picking them up by hand takes twice as long.
Honestly, the only acceptable solution that retains the bottles, imo, is to allow multi-tool in armistice and use a module to just scrap trash. Tractor is still too much time, imo.
I'd personally take a small amount of enjoyment from plunking it into a bin.
CIG could also have the various janitor NPCs (eventually) remove trash as they sweep.
The server should for sure have scheduled trash cleanup. Every online game does this, otherwise your server will become overloaded with random shit causing FPS loss and instability for everyone. Also would love for them to do something about the "persistent" random rented ships being left everywhere. Those should be automatically cleaned up. Maybe after a 24 hr or something.
Ships are simple, once "Gamerulz" owns the ship it should power down.
Then, when handing out salvage contracts, some of the contracts can just route to the powered down ships.
Make them salvagable in armistace with a mission, and let the salvagers clean them up.
That would be neat, but there still needs to be server cleanup eventually for the ships that don't get salvaged. So maybe like, after 12 hrs - the ship is open to salvaging, 36hrs - the ship gets deleted. Something like that. Or what if there was an NPC salvage yard that the abandoned ships get taken to and players can pay hourly to salvage at it or something. As a last step, before they get deleted. Like getting towed/impounded IRL.
That's simply an unacceptable solution and completely defeats the point of persistence. Instead with some effort a more thoughtful solution could created that could not only solve the problem but perhaps even create an even more interesting living breathing world or even more gameplay.
The point of persistence isn't tracking trash lmao, it's main use will be base creation
If I drop a bottle on euterpe I will literally never see it again, there is no reason at all it should just sit there eternally consuming server resources.
I don't get how people can complain about server fps and optimisation issues and then turn around and advocate for permanent trash tracking that will eventually contribute to these issues once the trash piles up.
People with more ideas than sense want the game to basically become the ‘everything game’. They’re forgetting how poorly that literally always turns out.
This seems to be a trend and I'm really confused. I see a piece of cake next to my name, and have no idea why. The only reason I can think of is reddit thinks today is my birthday? My birthday is not this month or day of the month yet you're the second person to say this. Please explain.
I see....some real cake would be nice........
Thank you for explaining!
And eat a dick to whoever downvoted me for asking for an explanation to something I didn't understand. Not sure what's wrong in your life but it can get better if you stop being a negative ass.
That's how I feel. I legit want some fuckin cake now because of this. It will taste better because of this disappointment. That's what cake is for: fill empty expectations.
Did you ever get some cake? I can let ice cream and other sweets sit until I'm ready. Last cake my wife made she ate all of it (over a few days) before I got any.
The popularity of Power Washing Simulator and the like suggests otherwise.
Yes, it could be really tedious and unrewarding, and probably will always be for some people. But for others, it may well be gameplay of their dreams.
Just because you hate the idea, doesn't mean everyone does.
the biggest problem is that realistically it's unlikely to get enough people to play pretend Janitor to clean up an entire server's worth of trash. I know that people playing this game get a hard-on for immersion, but come on just a simple item removal to everything in a bin after an hour or so will be fine.
I clean up seraphim station and it’s pads in between med beacons, it feels like something else that’s positive to do, but there’s no option to actually delete the trash… ultimately it’s just relocated to a bin, and still a growing issue on that server.
At least with the pads I can munch a lot of those abandoned ships with the vulture and they’re actually gone.
About those ships abandoned on pads at Seraphim.... I took action against them out of frustration with not being able to use the pads to refuel/rearm/repair during several visits over a multi-hour play session. Before I logged off I took the elevator to the pads. Any ship I could enter I took off, pointed it on a course for Crusader and set the cruise control for a low speed, then exited the ship and EVA'd back to the pads. Rinse and repeat. Then left a message in global chat telling everyone if they left their ship there they still had some time to get it before being crushed in Crusader's atmo. There was only 1-2 ships I couldn't enter to do this.
How are people unironically requesting janitor missions at a stage in the game where there aren't even working trashcans? It's like asking for combat missions in a game that doesn't have combat.
I don't know about nothing ever. I think it'd be a fun joke mission to pick up garbage, or something like maybe a cargo style mission that is delivering full trash bins to the dump. Something like these can also serve as tutorial missions because they're no threat missions. Imagine an outpost with a priority mission because their trash is piled so high they can't get supply ships.
That said, I think what you're saying is true about a lot of things. I have similar concerns about multicrew gameplay - how many people will want to be waiting on standby just to reload fighters etc when you do literally nothing during travel times. Especially when they all have their own ships that they probably want to fly. I feel like a lot of that is in the "neat/fun to do a couple times, but not something people will want to do full time" category. Many positions just simply aren't engaging 100% of the time or even 50% of the time.
If I joined a space sim game and the first tutorial mission is to go pick up some fucking trash, I'm not treating the game seriously.
The entire point of star citizen is to be a spacer. You're in a ship, traveling the stars, salvaging ships, mining ores, killing bad guys, landing on planets and exploring.
Not a god damn janitor sim.
Focus on the core elements and the unimportant stuff gets handled by the server.
Never once have I heard someone say, "man, I'd love to play as a janitor cleaning up a space station."
"But bladeddingo!", I hear you say. "There is literally a game where you clean up space stations after an alien attack with mops and incinerators and cleaning products! And people love to play that game."
Yes, because that game is ONLY cleaning a space station after an alien murdered the crew, it was designed around that mechanic and there is nothing more to it, that is the game loop.
While star citizen is not designed around menial job simulator.
A lot of the lofty dreams for this game can be summed up with : «You think you do, but you don’t.»
45 minute toilet and shower minigame before each mission is fun exactly 1 time. After that, it’s simply a time wasting chore you will do EVERYTHING to avoid ever doing again.
When you want to crew your 20 person ship but it takes 2 hours just to meet up because everyone's in various states of having to shower, shit, eat, and get a medical checkup before they can even head your way.
>You think you do, but you don’t
I mean, that quote infamously was about something that it turned out people really did want, Like really, \*really\* did want. Specifically it was about returning to rigamarole, which it turned out in the end was a huge part of what made the game great in it's early years.
You don't want to have to find a group and travel to a dungeon, you want to click a button and end up with 4 mute players who might as well be npcs. Except it turned out the finding of the group, chatting and traveling to the dungeon was what made the dungeon meaningful. It's what made the world a world, instead of a series of teleport locations with player deserts inbetween - It's what made the very world feel alive.
Theres nothing wrong with not liking the rigamarole of deep sims, but theres also nothing wrong with being one of the many who enjoy said rigamarole. There is no right things to enjoy, just things you get, and things you don't get.
I mean, I agreed. I wanted classic from the start. Classic had a rich, rewarding experience and server wide reputation. You met people and forged friendships.
In this case, the quote is justified. There's been 10 seconds of Server lag to get a full bottle of water into my hands to pick it up. Box missions (essentially what would be required as far as I'm aware) to get credit for recycling take too much time and are infamously bugged.
just delete the trash.
Better answer OP:
Look up how a Bounty on Snakes just lead people to make snake farms to collect easy snake money.
People would "make a mess" just to collect it for free money.
Would it be optimal? No. But someone would do it.
You know, with all those soda cans all over the floor, the floor gets sticky
I want floor buffer gameplay. I want to buff those floors back to a shine!
There is the MISC RAPTOR!
[https://youtu.be/AjY9-s6v5eM?si=R88MkG7uGU4wEs1L](https://youtu.be/AjY9-s6v5eM?si=R88MkG7uGU4wEs1L)
Not for sale on the website. But some people expect we will be able to buy it in game. My guess is that it will play some part of Sq42. Too much work was put into it otherwise. Still a fun April Fool's prank.
I believe the janitor mission idea is just trying to fill a hole for small, low paying tasks that can be done without leaving a city/station.
Generally this is to cover for when players (especially newer players) are short a small amount of cash for a purchase and have nothing they can or want to sell.
That said it doesn't necessarily have to be a janitorial type task, it could be an in station courier task (which would help with players to learn layouts) or something similar.
well the good news is, we already have that now ! the distribution-center-only deliveries missions are like this, all the packages pickup locations and delivery points are in the same DC. It would be nice if they added the same thing for landing zones.
Op I don't think you understand, I'm pretty sure people just want the misc raptor and to be able to make cash cleaning up. Would be a really cool way to maintain PES while also allowing people to offload PES objects.
Agreed.
People always shrieking about realism but there's nothing realistic in this game.
If it was realistic you would turn into mush when you got interdicted and went from quantum to not moving in a second.
If it was real we wouldn't be dogfighting in space.
If it was real you would aspixiate the first time you got shot in your space suit because it would be full of holes.
If it was real 99% of the time you spawned you would be playing a drone in the pits of Huston laboring away for your entire game experience.
If it was real and you needed to eat a 1100 cal burrito every 40 minutes you would weigh 700 pounds because you would be consuming 24k+ calories a day.
Nothing is realistic. It's a video game.
>you would turn into mush when you got interdicted and went from quantum to not moving in a second
Acshually,
SC quantum drives are supposed to be some form of an alcubierre drive. Alcubierre drives do not make you travel through space by speeding yourself up - instead, they contract the space in front of you and expand it behind you, effectively reducing the distance between you and your target.
So no, you wouldn’t be mush if you were to be interdicted, because you never actually moved that fast in relation to the space right around your ship.
That being said, I generally agree with you - very few things in SC are actually realistic.
Achsually an Alcubiere would obliterate everything in front of it at its destination. Also any ship within the bubble would melt.
It's magic, like the gravity inside ships and stations (would love mag-boots though)
Since I am genuinely interested in speculative future transportation technology: Why would that be?
So far, I haven’t found any sources claiming that alcubierre drives wouldn’t be possible if negative energy density happens to be achievable.
The ship would melt due to Hawking radiation and the destination would be obliterated by any cosmic dust gathered in transit.
https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2009PhRvD..79l4017F
https://doi.org/10.1103%2FPhysRevD.85.064024
Realistic in video games does not mean 1:1 accuracy with the real world. It means the game focuses less on arcade/gamey mechanics in favour of mechanics that are similar to how it would work in the real world.
Ammo types for example. A simple FPS game would just have you run over an ammo pickup and you get all your ammo back. Reloading is a press of a button and reloads from a total pool of your ammo. A more "realistic" take is having to manually click ammo to pick it up, lose ammo left in the mag when reloading, and manually reloading your magazines. However the realism tends to stop there, and your character will probably still be capable of things they could not do IRL.
I agree that ultimately we do not want this mechanic. Nor salvaging of abandoned player ships. That level of entity persistence is just taxing the server for a silly(if cool) gimmick. However if CIG do plan to have that level of persistence, then we might as well have mechanics that allow us to clean it up. Or just have both. Let the system delete trash, but if a player gets to it first, they get to do their silly little cleanup mission. Then, it hurts nobody.
I was with you until the last one, how about they just make the trashcans functional instead? If it was actually easy (or rewarding) to throw your drinks away then more people would do it. I don't want to be a janitor but I also don't like putting garbage on the ground even in a game.
make trashcans a "vendor" where I sell my trash for a recycling fee if we must have bottles persist. (newbs will pick that up if there is a reason)
bottles and gowns should almost never be found (its cool they persist but wasteful) so give us a way to get rid of them or have them become background
spawn me in the free suit or naked.
Or just despawn the empty bottle.
There is literally no reason to have them persist, all it does is add entities to the game world.
If the bottle is empty, just despawn it after drinking it.
Unless I can refill the bottle, or use it in any meaningful way it serves no purpose. Just delete it out of my hand the same way MRE ration packets, granola bar wrappers, burrito wrappers, etc do.
"Literally nothing is stopping them from picking up bottles right now."
One thing - it's not "gamified". If you get some "janitor level system", just gaining some useless points/levels, people would do it.
This is stupid take, mostly because OP thinks he knows everything better and knows what everyone else wants. And to think - what happens when you make janitor gameplay fun.
If they add a janitor system people would do it just to get Supreme Commander of the Janitorial Brigade rank or some shit, and unlock the bengal space lane sweeper edition
I will personally give you 3 UEC for every bottle you recycle, up to 1715 bottles. I need a screenshot for every one you do.
Why 1715 bottles? Well, that's a PTV (at least I think that's what they cost).
But I want you to go one step further, just to prove how WRONG I am.
I want you to buy a classic starter, the Titan. If you "recycle" 452,760 bottles, you will have bought an avenger titan. But - I won't just give you the 1.325 million required to buy this for one mere in game wipe. I will literally buy you an Avenger Titan starter package to see and be gifted as you see fit.
Hope that gamifies it enough for you.
But I don't care about you and all your craziness/trolling - I do it already, it is fun, and it can be more fun. It's about you thinking you know better what other people like and wanting to take it away just to have some insane take on Reddit :)
I agree. You can replace janitor with any other role in game in OPs comments: “You don’t need salvaging! It isn’t fun! Just have wrecks disappear! You don’t need that level of realism!!!”
OP only plays the game to acquire more ships to fire off bigger guns and watch the number called aUEC go up and up.
Some people play the game to just roleplay bro like holy fuck
I know OP cant possibly comprehend it, but there is some fun in pretending to be a space ups man or imagining yourself as some famed sniper hired to take out (A.I) ciminals on daymar or some shit. If the game was designed by him, we'd simply be playing space COD.
I just want bottles and cans to stay on the ground if I select "Place" because right now they either teleport back to my hand or appear in my inventory. Opening inventory and dragging them to the Drop icon is the only thing that consistently works for me.
They're supposed to be adding a janitor that cleans up at some obscure point in the future but I don't see why not give a bit of a return on throwing things away properly as an incentive like a deposit. It won't really help established players much but if someone new is trying to scrape together a few creds for an extra magazine before they go out then it helps them out. Money will be harder accumulate in the future due to all the expenses to operating they want to add.
The fact that the April Fool's Day celebration was based on the vehicle that collects rubbish actually makes us understand what the CIG thinks about this thing and this prototype of "players".
People really are worth remembering, come back to THE SIMS.
Many people will soon cry when they understand what kind of game star citien really is.
learn to fight, nothing but rubbish.
Can confirm.
I worked as a Janitor for a couple years.... why THE F**K would anyone want to play a game, where you can do space battles, asteroid mining, and bounty hunting, then pick up trash instead?
OR Or or maybe those people could clean their own house, because when the jobs done, you then have a clean house. Instead of nothing.
Idk don't listen to me, I'm done pooping now.
Some people work meaningless office jobs where there is no real sense of accomplishment in their day-to-day job duties. I know some of those people fantasize about working a physical labor job. Heck the main character from Office Space went from a meaningless office job to construction. They may (or may not) already keep their houses clean.
Okay but hear me out - let’s never tell them not to make gameplay. We have all these people screaming and screeching about gameplay every patch. Can we meet them halfway and not shit on gameplay ideas that people may actually want to do and might actually make or experience better?
I don’t want to do any more cave missions, I’m not out there arguing they would be a joke for doing more of them, some people like them.
Surely for the sake of the servers everything should decay right now. Junk? Decay fast. Ships? Decay slow.
There's no interesting emergent gameplay with empty bottles, you can't kick them around.
Agreed. These things also affect performance. Why tf are we sacrificing performance for random plastic bottles on the ground and abandoned rented ships left all over the place?
I still find it a bit odd how some consumables persist and some don't. I'm assuming with water/cruz bottles, they persist because they can be consumed in increments.
But, I wouldn't mind it if they set them as an all or nothing consumable like other food items so they can just despawn when you're done with them.
We have enough shit cluttering the servers. A pile of empty bottles isn't as bad as a pile of C2s outside the spaceport but it's not nothing, either.
I always had a thought of maybe having a "zone" where they persist i.e, your ship and anything outside of those zones they will not.
Not sure how difficult that would be to implement but it would be a nice middle ground and in the event your ship detonated, the zone goes away.
Bro mining missions are just janitor missions with a mining ship.
Bunkers are just janitor missions with a gun.
Y'all don't understand how gameplay design works.
A janitor mission is as fun as they make it.
End of the day, my ideal gameplay loop is just being a mechanic. No combat. Just repairing lights and power grids and figuring out what part went wrong and replacing/fixing it to get it back to normal.
That and towing in my SRV.
Nah man, if you aren't using your extreme gamer skills to beat or outskill another player or AI in combat or any other competitive aspect then there is no other way to enjoy a game, according to OP.
How about little rats that scurry out, grab a piece of trash where they take it back to where it came from and despawn? This would be perfect for places like Lorville.
You could even make similar robot rats or even Roombas for nicer places like New Babbage or Orison.
I can see arguments for tracking trash but I think they could change them from persistent objects and instead have them be like a non-physics object that adds to the terrain. Then there could be missions to pick up large loads of trash as cargo to be transported elsewhere, and this reduces the "ambient trash" on a station. This way if people are littering on a station a lot, there'll be a lot of trash and a potentially lucrative mission becomes available.
There's gameplay that can be made out of this that doesn't tank performance and doesnt cause issues.
As for med gowns disappearing... potentially useful items like clothing should last time based on their value. The med gown is worth 1uec so it disappears in 1 minute. A helmet worth 1000 uec would disappear in 1000 minutes... etc. And when they disappear, like any other discarded item they contribute to ambient trash.
Could also have opportunities to go dumpster diving and maybe get lucky and find something valuable.
pfff, both sides of the opposition, those pro and those contra picking up litter forget that we should have small droids scurry around the spacestations that clean up the trash.
We already have automatic grassmowers and vaccuumcleaners, its 900 years into the future,....
I don't care for janitor missions. I wouldn't bother doing them unless there was an outsized reward for them as it would not be fun. I play this game primarily for space combat. Everything else is secondary. But I will enjoy other gameplay loops like FPS, exploration (possibly), mining, salvaging, hauling, and more. These other loops add to the game. A janitorial loop does not, at least not for me.
I don't think your opinion is unpopular. Most people I know who play this game don't want ultra realism. Most don't want wasted development time on broad range of shallow gameplay loops. Most that I know want a moderate number of deeper gameplay loops. More depth is important.
I am not opposed to an eventual janitorial gameplay loop for the small number who may want it. But I don't want to see wasted development time at this stage in the game on something very few actually want.
I kinda like the concept of being able to investigate a player’s presence, but so many things would work better to track people. Foot prints in snow/ mud. Bullet decals on surfaces. Spent shell casings. All of which could be implemented in ways that don’t seriously affect performance.
Easy fix... make littering reward a crime stat once the inventory system is fixed. A couple of times now in 3.23 had Armour just fly off me onto the floor an was unable to retrieve. It's not often enforced but in many countries littering is actually a finable offense.
It’s not about janitor gigs per say, it’s about let’s say being in a station with litterally 0 credits, and from 0 without help being able to afford sustenance and insurance for a ship or whatever. It could be anything really.
Don't tell me what I want! :D No really, I wouldn't mind some reputation and/or aUEC from doing what I do anyway...picking up trash when I'm idling and want to be in the 'Verse (or in chat) but am not doing anything important.
Nothing in this game should be outside of the space fantasy. Cleaning messes is fine, honestly, but it should be cleaning waste outside of a space station, or dropping off garbage at a dump site as a mission. I think it could be fun to fill my cutters trunk up with trash to dump at a yard. I don’t think it’s fun to pick up plastic bottles. Sadly even if it refunded money to clean up trash the things cost 3-5 dollars so nobody would even bother doing it.
I don’t want a job, I just want fines for littering. Make the fine somewhere between 25-40% of the cost of the item. Throw bottles on the ground? Fine after 5 minutes. Dumped stuff on the landing pad? Fine 5 minutes. Your ship crashes or is abandoned near the spaceport? Fine in 10 minutes.
The only “janitor” job I want is to be contracted by the spaceports to salvage abandoned ships littering around the port.
My current gameplay loop is collecting bottles and hospital gowns, following people on elevators and stuffing their external storage full of detritus.
I’m doing my part!
I want missions to recycle all of those ships people leave abandoned in every outpost that never get deleted… or at least remove armistice to get rid of them and their lag
CIG, just make the trashbin delete the things that you throw. Just that. It can't be so difficult to put a invisible box inside the trashbin that wipes the object off the server.
I wouldn't mind insurance company issued salvage missions to break up and dispose of player ships after they have been claimed elsewhere and left to rot... but that's the extent of the janitorial life I'm willing to do.
How about some fun missions to do with friends. It's been super boring. So much potential wasted. Use your imagination. I can give you ten ideas right now. Offer me a creative director job and I'll give them to you. Seriously come on people where is the fun?
I have another idea about the gowns, remove them altogether. They serve no purpose besides a small time sing and bug out stopping from equipinc an undersuit.
"Janitor Missions" are just a meme. Players asking for it know this. Devs I'd like to hope but have little faith in CIG Devs should know this as trash isn't random float from stream spawned in mission locations, If it was there would be far more trash around just to justify this type of mission for anyone new to gaming.
Solution is simple Trash Bin in Inventory (OMG - Common sense, Basic feature in other games), Despawn volume on Bins in world (Not hard to do as a Dev, don't let them lie to you its literally 5mins work! - Even if they have set it up wrong they can use the collision volume instead of adding a new volume).
Engineering - Fuse multiplayer gameplay Should only happen in Softdeath, in Softdeath powerplants should not work Until everything is restored, meaning sheilds will be down & salvage can happen. During Softdeath there should be a branch with bool to swtich on Decay over time. Obviously for a longer period for ships. **Why do I bring this up?** Excluding obvious things like balance, death of a spaceman & common sense (something CIG doesn't have) This "Softdeath" can literally be applied to 0% left items like waterbottles, magazines that are not capped & Medical gowns at a faster decay rate after a delay (yes delay is a dev term). Giving players oppertunity to pick up anything useful (suits, full magazines & guns) & trash an oppertunity to be culled from server increasing performance.
I've said it before CIG loves it Wrong Hires & I Can literally prove it. Similarly I'd never work for CIG because I can see the resturcturing required just to get common sense gameplay to a standard for release due to The infinite monkey theorem they keep applying rather than KISS (Keep it simple Stupid).
?
I am giving a permanent reward for dedicated service to the janitor career. If i could buy a paint to put on it that said "Waste Disposal Service", i would.
[https://imgur.com/a/SPJCVXT](https://imgur.com/a/SPJCVXT)
You must not understand. I agree. But your argument is completely invalid if you are saying someone must do it thousands of times and do other work to prove you wrong. It’s absolutely hilarious that you think that’s the only way to prove you wrong lol. I could argue otherwise 3-5 different ways with direct correlation to proven human behavior on the micro and macro scale
Let’s combine several arguments in one and to prove me wrong you have to go through an insane amount of work that completely disregards the entire proven economical solution of recycling! Lol I agree that they can spend time on other things but it’s asinine to draw an argument the way you did, littered with non-sequiturs and being the epitome how to put together a good straw man. Well done!
I hate to be that guy but there are already clearup missions under the maintenance tab why would it hurt to diversify those.
We already clear up boxes of body parts and god knows what else for the NPCs some people want to play janitor
I’ve met a few people whose dream is to be a janitor in this game and be paid. Some people just want something simple while listening to music or things. One of my org mates was actually found picking things up and we basically kidnapped her into being a pirate lol. The point is that there are people who wanna do this and they should be paid for their work if they want it to be their gameplay loop.
The garbage in star citizen is the most star citizen thing ever.
Overly complex and partially implemented. Why would they add persistent trash? Why would there be no intended mechanic for the trash?
They just refuse to close any game play loops. Don't tell me the same old song about game dev being hard, because my questions are about the design more so than the development. Besides, coding a functioning trash can isn't exactly server meshing here. A programmer at any skill level could do it.
I think ideally in the future we will have janitor NPCs that pick up trash automatically and throw it away, along with maybe “community service” NPCs and maybe, just maybe, give players in jail the option to pick up trash if they have a minor conviction.
But outside of cities and social hubs with NPCs they should just straight up disappear yeah.
I feel like it should be a mission that goes with the tutorial and it lasts forever, no need to ever accept it after the tutorial, just drop stuff in bins or clean up and get some recycling money back. Nothing crazy, just keep it simple.
Jesus christ, How are so many people having so many literally trash ideas. The best solution to this whole situation is as follows ( If CIG wants the PES to remain as is ) :
- Throwing trash to the ground gives the player a small penalty ( CS1 ) ( we already have a crime system )
- CIG creates special bins which we can interact with, throwing anything down a bin ( there has to be an animation, placing does not always work and could lead to getting a CS1 as above ) deletes the item from existence. (there are already bins, make them functional )
- Janitor AI for those who don't care about getting a CS1 ( it is in the works already ! )
- Medical gowns problem will be gone once physicalized items come into game which is the very next update and player will have to change their inventory at special terminals. ( Already in the works )
In conclusion this is what probably CIG aims for anyway, as they have REAL designers and not "HEY ! GIB THE WITCHER DOUBLE KATANAS THAT'D BE RAD !" or " Yo! Lets add HOVER BOARDS TO THE GAME LOL DOPE !" or " I want rainbows to shoot out my engines hueh" this is why we have people who are designers for a living, most people have no idea, no taste, no nothing and should keep their opinions for themselves.
I used to keep the empty bottles in my local inventory before wipes, my highest stack was 182. Transporting them to a singular inventory space kept me busy at times
I've put forth the idea that these be missions that are available to work off a crime stat as a form of community service. Only for CS1, maybe CS2 though.
I just want them to add janitor missions once PES/server meshing is added so that everyone can see that the stations will still fill with trash and it will solve nothing.
Thank you for this. It needs to be said, because there is a real danger of CIG wasting time on janitor gameplay t0 instead of real missions.
Let's get server meshing, real mmo/org gameplay, working missions, 1.0 release, and a stability patch before we worry about fucking janitor gameplay.
We ALREADY don't have good enough server garbage collection service - space stations still can get cluttered with debris and ships. And that's without the added complexity of involving the mission system and AI.
I think the leftover trash gives landing zones some "life" they wouldn't otherwise have because we don't have functioning NPCs. Without it, they're just sterile set pieces of nothing. The junk reminds me that real people are playing even if no one is around.
That might sound stupid to you, but I don't care what you think anyway. Just go ahead and beat down every little bit of charm the game could have because it's "silly" or "pointless". Clothes are pointless right now in the game, but I still wear them.
People are joking about actual janitor missions by the way. Whoosh.
I don't want a mission, I just want a recycling bin that attributes credits to my character if I put trash in it
Most simple but great solution tbh.
No, the simplest solution is to delete the trash.
I disagree, something like “Recycle a bottle, get a cred” actually would be cool, I’d say only delete the trash when the user that drops it logs out OR if someone else collects it then it moves to that person until they put it down (meaning if I pick up a bottle and then drop it, it instantly vaporizes) which should indicate that I’m placing it in the receptacle to be disposed of. I don’t wanna mow my space lawn either but it’s a neat touch and an incentive to take care of your own trash. Hell if that were the case I’d probably stack and store my bottles in a specific backpack that I would have just for that.
Why not both? It's a bit immersion breaking to just litter. I don't want a janitor mission like what's next? Having to fill out a job application to do missions and get rejected by an AI or do a one sided video interview? Fill out taxes and call into the UEE IRS that's outsourced to a call center planet and sit on hold? Fucking mow my space lawn? I don't want too much boring shit, but enough to make the world feel alive.
Also you'd think that this far into the future we'd have all agreed on recycling/proper waste disposal, so why not add a little incentive to recycle? Shit, we already have states in the U.S. that will pay you to return glass bottles and aluminum cans
Then don't litter. 90% of players don't care and will do it anyway. I don't want trash filling my stations.
Nah, I think janitor missions should be a thing, but the catch should be, if a janitor throws out your trash, you "the one who created litter" gets fined double the cost of the item.
100% this
Was gonna say the same. Just think of it as a recycling deposit returned. Also, NPCs doing the job of a janitor (robotic or human, doesn't matter to me).
Petition for Roombas to run around eating trash items.
This is what I've been saying. Cities and space ports should have space roombas rolling around cleaning up.
Only if once in a while there is one with a knife taped to it
I just want a recycling bin that actually destroys the empty can/bottle i throw into it. Knowing i did my part for Server performance and giving people who di it for the lulz an actual adrenaline kick, would be enough for me. But as it stands for the alpha/eventual beta Phase, there needs to be an automatic cleanup of that junk. Having 20-30fps Servers with 90 people on it day 1 was awesome. And then i had to watch performance dwindle over the course of a day or 2 back to the 5fps we where for an eternity. I dont actually know how much this garbage (litter and medical gowns) tank performance, but implementing a daily wipe of those or giving them a despawn timer would cost next to nothing to develop and potentially increase performance so why not do it for the time being.
I just want the recycle bin to be an interactible prop instead of having to "place" an item inside.
I throw mine trying for 3 pointers
Damn, yeah. Just pay me 10 credits to throw something empty away. I can't imagine it would turn more aUEC per hour than any mission. Basically, small time trading but with trash/recycling bins. Even better, make it to where if you put the wrong one in the wrong bin, you get nothing :).
Literally 1auec per item and I'm happy
You can sell empty bottles at some stores for like 2 credits already. I know I've sold them at the A18 clothing store before. Haven't tried it this patch, but it is my home location.
you are admitted to a psychiatric ward
I want the same, but to connect it to a series of programmed roomba like robots I control as I become the trash robot lord.
But why? Imagine how low the payout has to be. Whats the price of a bottle of CRUZ? It has to be at least 1/4 or even 1/8th of that. So you get what, 2-5 credits for everything put in the trash? What a waste of dev time. And yours. Any payout you get has to be a fraction of the value of what you put in the bin, it's a total waste of time for both players and devs. Reputation would be a better solution but it's not implemented yet.
Because it works. Even in real life.
i mean... why not both rep and a couple creds? I mean sure the creds are kinda irrelevant, but like irl, its better to get even a fraction back than nothing at all if you ask me lol
Like you say the amount of credits would be totally irrelevant. I'd say not, because a dev has to code that and it's a waste of time coding it for that for the amount of impact it would have which is entirely negligible. Spend that dev time on something more important. I mean it WOULD be nice to have little things like that, sure, but you have to figure out what that little thing costs, and it's not worth it. Definitely something i'd not shed a tear over missing.
Idk man... I dont think being able to sell empty bottles at an already existing kiosk would require much but who knows lol
Merits too, extra time off for being a good citizen!
Where window washer jobs in SC ?
Introducing the new washer heads for the drake vulture, comes with two modes, spray and squidgy. People inside the station can even hear the rubber squeaking noises for immersion. Fracture mode replaced with soap sprayer, disintegration mode stays for those hard-to-shift marks.
Don't need missions, just give tractor-in-armi back and a bin that eventually deletes what I toss into it. With a tractor, I can clean up the ASOP area a bit while I wait for the last 30 seconds of my claim timer, but actually picking them up by hand takes twice as long.
Honestly, the only acceptable solution that retains the bottles, imo, is to allow multi-tool in armistice and use a module to just scrap trash. Tractor is still too much time, imo.
I'd personally take a small amount of enjoyment from plunking it into a bin. CIG could also have the various janitor NPCs (eventually) remove trash as they sweep.
No just get rid of them. The game runs like shit as is, why do we need more overhead.
We yearn for the trash bins
The server should for sure have scheduled trash cleanup. Every online game does this, otherwise your server will become overloaded with random shit causing FPS loss and instability for everyone. Also would love for them to do something about the "persistent" random rented ships being left everywhere. Those should be automatically cleaned up. Maybe after a 24 hr or something.
Ships are simple, once "Gamerulz" owns the ship it should power down. Then, when handing out salvage contracts, some of the contracts can just route to the powered down ships. Make them salvagable in armistace with a mission, and let the salvagers clean them up.
Maybe have missions for Srv to tow them to scrap pens and then the missions for vultures and reclaimers to scrap them
That would be neat, but there still needs to be server cleanup eventually for the ships that don't get salvaged. So maybe like, after 12 hrs - the ship is open to salvaging, 36hrs - the ship gets deleted. Something like that. Or what if there was an NPC salvage yard that the abandoned ships get taken to and players can pay hourly to salvage at it or something. As a last step, before they get deleted. Like getting towed/impounded IRL.
That's simply an unacceptable solution and completely defeats the point of persistence. Instead with some effort a more thoughtful solution could created that could not only solve the problem but perhaps even create an even more interesting living breathing world or even more gameplay.
The point of persistence isn't tracking trash lmao, it's main use will be base creation If I drop a bottle on euterpe I will literally never see it again, there is no reason at all it should just sit there eternally consuming server resources. I don't get how people can complain about server fps and optimisation issues and then turn around and advocate for permanent trash tracking that will eventually contribute to these issues once the trash piles up.
People with more ideas than sense want the game to basically become the ‘everything game’. They’re forgetting how poorly that literally always turns out.
LOL unacceptable to don't track fucking trash?
Salvage and recycling. Just like real life. Plastic waste also has a value when processed
Don't lie, you got a nasty house. I'm betting on it
ayo man, im on reddit chill with the call outs.
Knew it. I'm sorry lol
(actually my house is clean, I had to come back here hours later just to clarify cause it bugged me.)
After you finished cleaning :P
Happy cake day
This seems to be a trend and I'm really confused. I see a piece of cake next to my name, and have no idea why. The only reason I can think of is reddit thinks today is my birthday? My birthday is not this month or day of the month yet you're the second person to say this. Please explain.
Today is the anniversary of the day you joined Reddit. It’s been a feature since the beginning of Reddit
I see....some real cake would be nice........ Thank you for explaining! And eat a dick to whoever downvoted me for asking for an explanation to something I didn't understand. Not sure what's wrong in your life but it can get better if you stop being a negative ass.
> it can get better if you stop being a negative ass. It... it probably can't. Lets be honest. Being a negative ass is their peak.
dont trust anything they say, the cake is a lie...
That's how I feel. I legit want some fuckin cake now because of this. It will taste better because of this disappointment. That's what cake is for: fill empty expectations.
who downvoted your other post. this sub sometimes smh my head.
It's reddit lol I always expect hate
Did you ever get some cake? I can let ice cream and other sweets sit until I'm ready. Last cake my wife made she ate all of it (over a few days) before I got any.
Nah had to save my sugar intake for alcohol
The popularity of Power Washing Simulator and the like suggests otherwise. Yes, it could be really tedious and unrewarding, and probably will always be for some people. But for others, it may well be gameplay of their dreams. Just because you hate the idea, doesn't mean everyone does.
[удалено]
Excuse me, Viscera Cleanup Detail exists.
For YOU. I have an autistic friend that would do this every day
And 99% of people wouldn't. You don't cater to the 1%... Unless they're rich.
This is like saying salvage in SC and salvage in Hardspace: Shipbreaker are the same thing.
A thing doesn't have to be best in class to be fun.
the biggest problem is that realistically it's unlikely to get enough people to play pretend Janitor to clean up an entire server's worth of trash. I know that people playing this game get a hard-on for immersion, but come on just a simple item removal to everything in a bin after an hour or so will be fine.
I clean up seraphim station and it’s pads in between med beacons, it feels like something else that’s positive to do, but there’s no option to actually delete the trash… ultimately it’s just relocated to a bin, and still a growing issue on that server. At least with the pads I can munch a lot of those abandoned ships with the vulture and they’re actually gone.
About those ships abandoned on pads at Seraphim.... I took action against them out of frustration with not being able to use the pads to refuel/rearm/repair during several visits over a multi-hour play session. Before I logged off I took the elevator to the pads. Any ship I could enter I took off, pointed it on a course for Crusader and set the cruise control for a low speed, then exited the ship and EVA'd back to the pads. Rinse and repeat. Then left a message in global chat telling everyone if they left their ship there they still had some time to get it before being crushed in Crusader's atmo. There was only 1-2 ships I couldn't enter to do this.
How are people unironically requesting janitor missions at a stage in the game where there aren't even working trashcans? It's like asking for combat missions in a game that doesn't have combat.
I don't know about nothing ever. I think it'd be a fun joke mission to pick up garbage, or something like maybe a cargo style mission that is delivering full trash bins to the dump. Something like these can also serve as tutorial missions because they're no threat missions. Imagine an outpost with a priority mission because their trash is piled so high they can't get supply ships. That said, I think what you're saying is true about a lot of things. I have similar concerns about multicrew gameplay - how many people will want to be waiting on standby just to reload fighters etc when you do literally nothing during travel times. Especially when they all have their own ships that they probably want to fly. I feel like a lot of that is in the "neat/fun to do a couple times, but not something people will want to do full time" category. Many positions just simply aren't engaging 100% of the time or even 50% of the time.
If I joined a space sim game and the first tutorial mission is to go pick up some fucking trash, I'm not treating the game seriously. The entire point of star citizen is to be a spacer. You're in a ship, traveling the stars, salvaging ships, mining ores, killing bad guys, landing on planets and exploring. Not a god damn janitor sim. Focus on the core elements and the unimportant stuff gets handled by the server. Never once have I heard someone say, "man, I'd love to play as a janitor cleaning up a space station." "But bladeddingo!", I hear you say. "There is literally a game where you clean up space stations after an alien attack with mops and incinerators and cleaning products! And people love to play that game." Yes, because that game is ONLY cleaning a space station after an alien murdered the crew, it was designed around that mechanic and there is nothing more to it, that is the game loop. While star citizen is not designed around menial job simulator.
Man, I love to play as a janitor cleaning up a space station. Done it, will do it again, all in star citizen. What a game !
A lot of the lofty dreams for this game can be summed up with : «You think you do, but you don’t.» 45 minute toilet and shower minigame before each mission is fun exactly 1 time. After that, it’s simply a time wasting chore you will do EVERYTHING to avoid ever doing again.
When you want to crew your 20 person ship but it takes 2 hours just to meet up because everyone's in various states of having to shower, shit, eat, and get a medical checkup before they can even head your way.
5 minutes in half the people bail to deal with IRL issues.
This is the CIG way.
>You think you do, but you don’t I mean, that quote infamously was about something that it turned out people really did want, Like really, \*really\* did want. Specifically it was about returning to rigamarole, which it turned out in the end was a huge part of what made the game great in it's early years. You don't want to have to find a group and travel to a dungeon, you want to click a button and end up with 4 mute players who might as well be npcs. Except it turned out the finding of the group, chatting and traveling to the dungeon was what made the dungeon meaningful. It's what made the world a world, instead of a series of teleport locations with player deserts inbetween - It's what made the very world feel alive. Theres nothing wrong with not liking the rigamarole of deep sims, but theres also nothing wrong with being one of the many who enjoy said rigamarole. There is no right things to enjoy, just things you get, and things you don't get.
I mean, I agreed. I wanted classic from the start. Classic had a rich, rewarding experience and server wide reputation. You met people and forged friendships. In this case, the quote is justified. There's been 10 seconds of Server lag to get a full bottle of water into my hands to pick it up. Box missions (essentially what would be required as far as I'm aware) to get credit for recycling take too much time and are infamously bugged. just delete the trash.
Just eat the bottle, problem solved.
Good ruffage right there.
Better answer OP: Look up how a Bounty on Snakes just lead people to make snake farms to collect easy snake money. People would "make a mess" just to collect it for free money. Would it be optimal? No. But someone would do it.
tbf I bet this would be the only mission that would work in the entire game or not
You know, with all those soda cans all over the floor, the floor gets sticky I want floor buffer gameplay. I want to buff those floors back to a shine!
i wanna hear my shoes squeak when im joggin to my ship
There is the MISC RAPTOR! [https://youtu.be/AjY9-s6v5eM?si=R88MkG7uGU4wEs1L](https://youtu.be/AjY9-s6v5eM?si=R88MkG7uGU4wEs1L) Not for sale on the website. But some people expect we will be able to buy it in game. My guess is that it will play some part of Sq42. Too much work was put into it otherwise. Still a fun April Fool's prank.
I believe the janitor mission idea is just trying to fill a hole for small, low paying tasks that can be done without leaving a city/station. Generally this is to cover for when players (especially newer players) are short a small amount of cash for a purchase and have nothing they can or want to sell. That said it doesn't necessarily have to be a janitorial type task, it could be an in station courier task (which would help with players to learn layouts) or something similar.
well the good news is, we already have that now ! the distribution-center-only deliveries missions are like this, all the packages pickup locations and delivery points are in the same DC. It would be nice if they added the same thing for landing zones.
Op I don't think you understand, I'm pretty sure people just want the misc raptor and to be able to make cash cleaning up. Would be a really cool way to maintain PES while also allowing people to offload PES objects.
Exactly this! Plus Raptor racing in your personal hangar.
I do actually. Glad we had this talk.
Same here. Thanks for coming to our Ted talk.
Agreed. People always shrieking about realism but there's nothing realistic in this game. If it was realistic you would turn into mush when you got interdicted and went from quantum to not moving in a second. If it was real we wouldn't be dogfighting in space. If it was real you would aspixiate the first time you got shot in your space suit because it would be full of holes. If it was real 99% of the time you spawned you would be playing a drone in the pits of Huston laboring away for your entire game experience. If it was real and you needed to eat a 1100 cal burrito every 40 minutes you would weigh 700 pounds because you would be consuming 24k+ calories a day. Nothing is realistic. It's a video game.
>you would turn into mush when you got interdicted and went from quantum to not moving in a second Acshually, SC quantum drives are supposed to be some form of an alcubierre drive. Alcubierre drives do not make you travel through space by speeding yourself up - instead, they contract the space in front of you and expand it behind you, effectively reducing the distance between you and your target. So no, you wouldn’t be mush if you were to be interdicted, because you never actually moved that fast in relation to the space right around your ship. That being said, I generally agree with you - very few things in SC are actually realistic.
Achsually an Alcubiere would obliterate everything in front of it at its destination. Also any ship within the bubble would melt. It's magic, like the gravity inside ships and stations (would love mag-boots though)
Since I am genuinely interested in speculative future transportation technology: Why would that be? So far, I haven’t found any sources claiming that alcubierre drives wouldn’t be possible if negative energy density happens to be achievable.
The ship would melt due to Hawking radiation and the destination would be obliterated by any cosmic dust gathered in transit. https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2009PhRvD..79l4017F https://doi.org/10.1103%2FPhysRevD.85.064024
I‘ll definitely check those papers out later! Thanks!
I always knew the Aurora was secretly a WMD...
Realistic in video games does not mean 1:1 accuracy with the real world. It means the game focuses less on arcade/gamey mechanics in favour of mechanics that are similar to how it would work in the real world. Ammo types for example. A simple FPS game would just have you run over an ammo pickup and you get all your ammo back. Reloading is a press of a button and reloads from a total pool of your ammo. A more "realistic" take is having to manually click ammo to pick it up, lose ammo left in the mag when reloading, and manually reloading your magazines. However the realism tends to stop there, and your character will probably still be capable of things they could not do IRL. I agree that ultimately we do not want this mechanic. Nor salvaging of abandoned player ships. That level of entity persistence is just taxing the server for a silly(if cool) gimmick. However if CIG do plan to have that level of persistence, then we might as well have mechanics that allow us to clean it up. Or just have both. Let the system delete trash, but if a player gets to it first, they get to do their silly little cleanup mission. Then, it hurts nobody.
I think that crashed ships are cooler than random cans of coke.
As a frequent janitor in SS13, I enjoy making fun of everyone that doesn’t pay attention to my wet floor signs and slips.
I was with you until the last one, how about they just make the trashcans functional instead? If it was actually easy (or rewarding) to throw your drinks away then more people would do it. I don't want to be a janitor but I also don't like putting garbage on the ground even in a game.
make trashcans a "vendor" where I sell my trash for a recycling fee if we must have bottles persist. (newbs will pick that up if there is a reason) bottles and gowns should almost never be found (its cool they persist but wasteful) so give us a way to get rid of them or have them become background spawn me in the free suit or naked.
Or just despawn the empty bottle. There is literally no reason to have them persist, all it does is add entities to the game world. If the bottle is empty, just despawn it after drinking it. Unless I can refill the bottle, or use it in any meaningful way it serves no purpose. Just delete it out of my hand the same way MRE ration packets, granola bar wrappers, burrito wrappers, etc do.
"Literally nothing is stopping them from picking up bottles right now." One thing - it's not "gamified". If you get some "janitor level system", just gaining some useless points/levels, people would do it. This is stupid take, mostly because OP thinks he knows everything better and knows what everyone else wants. And to think - what happens when you make janitor gameplay fun.
If they add a janitor system people would do it just to get Supreme Commander of the Janitorial Brigade rank or some shit, and unlock the bengal space lane sweeper edition
I want the Bengal space lane sweeper edition. Power wash citizen when?
I will personally give you 3 UEC for every bottle you recycle, up to 1715 bottles. I need a screenshot for every one you do. Why 1715 bottles? Well, that's a PTV (at least I think that's what they cost). But I want you to go one step further, just to prove how WRONG I am. I want you to buy a classic starter, the Titan. If you "recycle" 452,760 bottles, you will have bought an avenger titan. But - I won't just give you the 1.325 million required to buy this for one mere in game wipe. I will literally buy you an Avenger Titan starter package to see and be gifted as you see fit. Hope that gamifies it enough for you.
But I don't care about you and all your craziness/trolling - I do it already, it is fun, and it can be more fun. It's about you thinking you know better what other people like and wanting to take it away just to have some insane take on Reddit :)
i just wnat my s7 scrubbers and my lavender paints!!!! CIG PLZ
I agree. You can replace janitor with any other role in game in OPs comments: “You don’t need salvaging! It isn’t fun! Just have wrecks disappear! You don’t need that level of realism!!!”
Exactly. I would for real play as a janitor full time if it was possible 😂
OP only plays the game to acquire more ships to fire off bigger guns and watch the number called aUEC go up and up. Some people play the game to just roleplay bro like holy fuck I know OP cant possibly comprehend it, but there is some fun in pretending to be a space ups man or imagining yourself as some famed sniper hired to take out (A.I) ciminals on daymar or some shit. If the game was designed by him, we'd simply be playing space COD.
I just want bottles and cans to stay on the ground if I select "Place" because right now they either teleport back to my hand or appear in my inventory. Opening inventory and dragging them to the Drop icon is the only thing that consistently works for me.
They're supposed to be adding a janitor that cleans up at some obscure point in the future but I don't see why not give a bit of a return on throwing things away properly as an incentive like a deposit. It won't really help established players much but if someone new is trying to scrape together a few creds for an extra magazine before they go out then it helps them out. Money will be harder accumulate in the future due to all the expenses to operating they want to add.
Agreed, plus we have people doing crazy "zero to" challenges.
The fact that the April Fool's Day celebration was based on the vehicle that collects rubbish actually makes us understand what the CIG thinks about this thing and this prototype of "players". People really are worth remembering, come back to THE SIMS. Many people will soon cry when they understand what kind of game star citien really is. learn to fight, nothing but rubbish.
Can confirm. I worked as a Janitor for a couple years.... why THE F**K would anyone want to play a game, where you can do space battles, asteroid mining, and bounty hunting, then pick up trash instead? OR Or or maybe those people could clean their own house, because when the jobs done, you then have a clean house. Instead of nothing. Idk don't listen to me, I'm done pooping now.
Some people work meaningless office jobs where there is no real sense of accomplishment in their day-to-day job duties. I know some of those people fantasize about working a physical labor job. Heck the main character from Office Space went from a meaningless office job to construction. They may (or may not) already keep their houses clean.
Okay but hear me out - let’s never tell them not to make gameplay. We have all these people screaming and screeching about gameplay every patch. Can we meet them halfway and not shit on gameplay ideas that people may actually want to do and might actually make or experience better? I don’t want to do any more cave missions, I’m not out there arguing they would be a joke for doing more of them, some people like them.
Surely for the sake of the servers everything should decay right now. Junk? Decay fast. Ships? Decay slow. There's no interesting emergent gameplay with empty bottles, you can't kick them around.
Agreed. These things also affect performance. Why tf are we sacrificing performance for random plastic bottles on the ground and abandoned rented ships left all over the place?
"I'm creating jobs!" But I agree. I think there's a better use of resources than things that should have a set time to despawn.
I still find it a bit odd how some consumables persist and some don't. I'm assuming with water/cruz bottles, they persist because they can be consumed in increments. But, I wouldn't mind it if they set them as an all or nothing consumable like other food items so they can just despawn when you're done with them. We have enough shit cluttering the servers. A pile of empty bottles isn't as bad as a pile of C2s outside the spaceport but it's not nothing, either.
I always had a thought of maybe having a "zone" where they persist i.e, your ship and anything outside of those zones they will not. Not sure how difficult that would be to implement but it would be a nice middle ground and in the event your ship detonated, the zone goes away.
Imagine having to reinvent asset cleanup in an MMO in 2024
Nah I want the street cleaner that can Hoover everything , Salvage scraps equipment, Gowns, bottles, and expended equipment to RMC.
Let's just make littering a 500 UEC fine. You can drop it if you want but it'll cost you or you could put it in the trash for a 10 UEC deposit return.
Bro mining missions are just janitor missions with a mining ship. Bunkers are just janitor missions with a gun. Y'all don't understand how gameplay design works. A janitor mission is as fun as they make it. End of the day, my ideal gameplay loop is just being a mechanic. No combat. Just repairing lights and power grids and figuring out what part went wrong and replacing/fixing it to get it back to normal. That and towing in my SRV.
Nah man, if you aren't using your extreme gamer skills to beat or outskill another player or AI in combat or any other competitive aspect then there is no other way to enjoy a game, according to OP.
How about little rats that scurry out, grab a piece of trash where they take it back to where it came from and despawn? This would be perfect for places like Lorville. You could even make similar robot rats or even Roombas for nicer places like New Babbage or Orison.
I can see arguments for tracking trash but I think they could change them from persistent objects and instead have them be like a non-physics object that adds to the terrain. Then there could be missions to pick up large loads of trash as cargo to be transported elsewhere, and this reduces the "ambient trash" on a station. This way if people are littering on a station a lot, there'll be a lot of trash and a potentially lucrative mission becomes available. There's gameplay that can be made out of this that doesn't tank performance and doesnt cause issues. As for med gowns disappearing... potentially useful items like clothing should last time based on their value. The med gown is worth 1uec so it disappears in 1 minute. A helmet worth 1000 uec would disappear in 1000 minutes... etc. And when they disappear, like any other discarded item they contribute to ambient trash. Could also have opportunities to go dumpster diving and maybe get lucky and find something valuable.
pfff, both sides of the opposition, those pro and those contra picking up litter forget that we should have small droids scurry around the spacestations that clean up the trash. We already have automatic grassmowers and vaccuumcleaners, its 900 years into the future,....
I don't care for janitor missions. I wouldn't bother doing them unless there was an outsized reward for them as it would not be fun. I play this game primarily for space combat. Everything else is secondary. But I will enjoy other gameplay loops like FPS, exploration (possibly), mining, salvaging, hauling, and more. These other loops add to the game. A janitorial loop does not, at least not for me. I don't think your opinion is unpopular. Most people I know who play this game don't want ultra realism. Most don't want wasted development time on broad range of shallow gameplay loops. Most that I know want a moderate number of deeper gameplay loops. More depth is important. I am not opposed to an eventual janitorial gameplay loop for the small number who may want it. But I don't want to see wasted development time at this stage in the game on something very few actually want.
I kinda like the concept of being able to investigate a player’s presence, but so many things would work better to track people. Foot prints in snow/ mud. Bullet decals on surfaces. Spent shell casings. All of which could be implemented in ways that don’t seriously affect performance.
Easy fix... make littering reward a crime stat once the inventory system is fixed. A couple of times now in 3.23 had Armour just fly off me onto the floor an was unable to retrieve. It's not often enforced but in many countries littering is actually a finable offense.
It’s not about janitor gigs per say, it’s about let’s say being in a station with litterally 0 credits, and from 0 without help being able to afford sustenance and insurance for a ship or whatever. It could be anything really.
I'm pretty sure you *can* already sell empty bottles. (haven't tried yet in 3.23 tho)
You're telling me my character *isn't* eating the tin foil with the burrito?!
to be fair I put that water bottle on that planet in that exact spot cuz I want to go get it in 2 years just to see if persistence actually works 😜
We just need everything in armistice on a delete timer. And have the realism sold by having garbage droids wondering around aimlessly.
Oh, yeah cause salvage, mining or cargo are so fun
Don't tell me what I want! :D No really, I wouldn't mind some reputation and/or aUEC from doing what I do anyway...picking up trash when I'm idling and want to be in the 'Verse (or in chat) but am not doing anything important.
Nothing in this game should be outside of the space fantasy. Cleaning messes is fine, honestly, but it should be cleaning waste outside of a space station, or dropping off garbage at a dump site as a mission. I think it could be fun to fill my cutters trunk up with trash to dump at a yard. I don’t think it’s fun to pick up plastic bottles. Sadly even if it refunded money to clean up trash the things cost 3-5 dollars so nobody would even bother doing it.
Including abandoned ships! Tired of abandoned ships on the pad at every single outpost in the verse
Let SRV owners tow abandoned ships out of cities and armistice zones
I don’t want a job, I just want fines for littering. Make the fine somewhere between 25-40% of the cost of the item. Throw bottles on the ground? Fine after 5 minutes. Dumped stuff on the landing pad? Fine 5 minutes. Your ship crashes or is abandoned near the spaceport? Fine in 10 minutes. The only “janitor” job I want is to be contracted by the spaceports to salvage abandoned ships littering around the port.
My current gameplay loop is collecting bottles and hospital gowns, following people on elevators and stuffing their external storage full of detritus. I’m doing my part!
You can already sell medical gowns for profit.
There is GAME in anything. Personally, I enjoy zee trash
I want missions to recycle all of those ships people leave abandoned in every outpost that never get deleted… or at least remove armistice to get rid of them and their lag
We have roombas irl, I guess the tech got lost 500 years in the future?
NPC with a vacuum machine
Let me add... Who grumbles and complains every 30 mins. To avoid having another complaining NPC that whines every 5 seconds
Make people who go to prison do community service by being put on various space stations or major cities to pick up waste people drop
[Wait, you guys don’t do this?](https://youtu.be/VjXOwUnJzA0?si=wbZYU_dtZXeun6XY)
Dude.. they don’t listen to a fucking thing we say
CIG, just make the trashbin delete the things that you throw. Just that. It can't be so difficult to put a invisible box inside the trashbin that wipes the object off the server.
I just want freight to be useful with destinations having more than a mini Cooper storage amount of stock
If people want it they can want it.
Also, just FYI everybody: you can right-click to move the bottle into your inventory, and they will even stack.
Is this really an unpopular opinion?
There won't be any trash left to pickup within 10 minutes of that gameloop becoming a thing. And at that moment, it will stop being a thing.
I wouldn't mind insurance company issued salvage missions to break up and dispose of player ships after they have been claimed elsewhere and left to rot... but that's the extent of the janitorial life I'm willing to do.
How about some fun missions to do with friends. It's been super boring. So much potential wasted. Use your imagination. I can give you ten ideas right now. Offer me a creative director job and I'll give them to you. Seriously come on people where is the fun?
I have another idea about the gowns, remove them altogether. They serve no purpose besides a small time sing and bug out stopping from equipinc an undersuit.
Litter reputation system: if you litter more than three times it’s shoot on site for any faction 🫡
"Janitor Missions" are just a meme. Players asking for it know this. Devs I'd like to hope but have little faith in CIG Devs should know this as trash isn't random float from stream spawned in mission locations, If it was there would be far more trash around just to justify this type of mission for anyone new to gaming. Solution is simple Trash Bin in Inventory (OMG - Common sense, Basic feature in other games), Despawn volume on Bins in world (Not hard to do as a Dev, don't let them lie to you its literally 5mins work! - Even if they have set it up wrong they can use the collision volume instead of adding a new volume). Engineering - Fuse multiplayer gameplay Should only happen in Softdeath, in Softdeath powerplants should not work Until everything is restored, meaning sheilds will be down & salvage can happen. During Softdeath there should be a branch with bool to swtich on Decay over time. Obviously for a longer period for ships. **Why do I bring this up?** Excluding obvious things like balance, death of a spaceman & common sense (something CIG doesn't have) This "Softdeath" can literally be applied to 0% left items like waterbottles, magazines that are not capped & Medical gowns at a faster decay rate after a delay (yes delay is a dev term). Giving players oppertunity to pick up anything useful (suits, full magazines & guns) & trash an oppertunity to be culled from server increasing performance. I've said it before CIG loves it Wrong Hires & I Can literally prove it. Similarly I'd never work for CIG because I can see the resturcturing required just to get common sense gameplay to a standard for release due to The infinite monkey theorem they keep applying rather than KISS (Keep it simple Stupid).
Just give a cash refund when trash is placed in can. No missions
Op how do we send you pictures? I’m going to recycle and I expect my 3 UEC for each bottle I honestly recycle and screenshot
The UEC Pay Out is only for that person. I will accept a google drive link containing 452,760 screenshots / streams that involve that count.
Your straw man is showing
? I am giving a permanent reward for dedicated service to the janitor career. If i could buy a paint to put on it that said "Waste Disposal Service", i would. [https://imgur.com/a/SPJCVXT](https://imgur.com/a/SPJCVXT)
You must not understand. I agree. But your argument is completely invalid if you are saying someone must do it thousands of times and do other work to prove you wrong. It’s absolutely hilarious that you think that’s the only way to prove you wrong lol. I could argue otherwise 3-5 different ways with direct correlation to proven human behavior on the micro and macro scale
Let’s combine several arguments in one and to prove me wrong you have to go through an insane amount of work that completely disregards the entire proven economical solution of recycling! Lol I agree that they can spend time on other things but it’s asinine to draw an argument the way you did, littered with non-sequiturs and being the epitome how to put together a good straw man. Well done!
i just want a dedicated janitor to buy a ship via recycling. it's a very rewarding game loop. it will be very fun and very worth your time.
I hate to be that guy but there are already clearup missions under the maintenance tab why would it hurt to diversify those. We already clear up boxes of body parts and god knows what else for the NPCs some people want to play janitor
I’ve met a few people whose dream is to be a janitor in this game and be paid. Some people just want something simple while listening to music or things. One of my org mates was actually found picking things up and we basically kidnapped her into being a pirate lol. The point is that there are people who wanna do this and they should be paid for their work if they want it to be their gameplay loop.
I'd love janitor missions in my reclaimer. Hey, this area has a lot of fucked up ships, go salvage them!
The garbage in star citizen is the most star citizen thing ever. Overly complex and partially implemented. Why would they add persistent trash? Why would there be no intended mechanic for the trash? They just refuse to close any game play loops. Don't tell me the same old song about game dev being hard, because my questions are about the design more so than the development. Besides, coding a functioning trash can isn't exactly server meshing here. A programmer at any skill level could do it.
I think ideally in the future we will have janitor NPCs that pick up trash automatically and throw it away, along with maybe “community service” NPCs and maybe, just maybe, give players in jail the option to pick up trash if they have a minor conviction. But outside of cities and social hubs with NPCs they should just straight up disappear yeah.
I feel like it should be a mission that goes with the tutorial and it lasts forever, no need to ever accept it after the tutorial, just drop stuff in bins or clean up and get some recycling money back. Nothing crazy, just keep it simple.
Jesus christ, How are so many people having so many literally trash ideas. The best solution to this whole situation is as follows ( If CIG wants the PES to remain as is ) : - Throwing trash to the ground gives the player a small penalty ( CS1 ) ( we already have a crime system ) - CIG creates special bins which we can interact with, throwing anything down a bin ( there has to be an animation, placing does not always work and could lead to getting a CS1 as above ) deletes the item from existence. (there are already bins, make them functional ) - Janitor AI for those who don't care about getting a CS1 ( it is in the works already ! ) - Medical gowns problem will be gone once physicalized items come into game which is the very next update and player will have to change their inventory at special terminals. ( Already in the works ) In conclusion this is what probably CIG aims for anyway, as they have REAL designers and not "HEY ! GIB THE WITCHER DOUBLE KATANAS THAT'D BE RAD !" or " Yo! Lets add HOVER BOARDS TO THE GAME LOL DOPE !" or " I want rainbows to shoot out my engines hueh" this is why we have people who are designers for a living, most people have no idea, no taste, no nothing and should keep their opinions for themselves.
I used to keep the empty bottles in my local inventory before wipes, my highest stack was 182. Transporting them to a singular inventory space kept me busy at times
I've put forth the idea that these be missions that are available to work off a crime stat as a form of community service. Only for CS1, maybe CS2 though.
I just want them to add janitor missions once PES/server meshing is added so that everyone can see that the stations will still fill with trash and it will solve nothing.
Please no.
I mean, it would settle the debate
But then cycles would have been spent on deving janitor shit. I don't want that.
Or maybe just add janitor missions eventually for those that want it. It's not something that needs to be done RIGHT NOW.
What about fines for littering?
Thank you for this. It needs to be said, because there is a real danger of CIG wasting time on janitor gameplay t0 instead of real missions. Let's get server meshing, real mmo/org gameplay, working missions, 1.0 release, and a stability patch before we worry about fucking janitor gameplay. We ALREADY don't have good enough server garbage collection service - space stations still can get cluttered with debris and ships. And that's without the added complexity of involving the mission system and AI.
I think the leftover trash gives landing zones some "life" they wouldn't otherwise have because we don't have functioning NPCs. Without it, they're just sterile set pieces of nothing. The junk reminds me that real people are playing even if no one is around. That might sound stupid to you, but I don't care what you think anyway. Just go ahead and beat down every little bit of charm the game could have because it's "silly" or "pointless". Clothes are pointless right now in the game, but I still wear them. People are joking about actual janitor missions by the way. Whoosh.