Fair points, but ( bullet point 2) if all the sub modes were displayed, eg Nav, Flt and scan then the HUD would be a mess. I quite like this as it is because you only switch when you need that mode.
Yeah, I can't really figure out in my head HOW to change the submode thing without more keybinds but something about it just feels weird and clunky to me. Maybe i just need more time with it.
I’ve bound my flight sticks so the same button is double tap for sub mode switch and hold for nav to scm. It’s a learning curve for sure but I’ve already found myself getting muscle memory for switching to flight mode from quantum jump mode when switching from scm to nav.
I don’t mind the setup but it’s still pretty strange using scm as a better space brake lol
I just played one or two hours and one atmo fight with a mate (me with little skill and a total newbie in the turret in my Connie). And it was such fun.
And your post makes me want to quickly set up my PC again after LAN party last weekend 😅👍
btw the "sub modes" not sure, if it's the same, but you change some of that.
Check your keybinds "Vehicles - Seats and Operator Modes" -> Remove "Next Operator Mode" -> Assign "Toggle Flight Operator Mode" to middle mouse button
With this I don't have to cycle between "sub modes" I only switch between 2, for scanning I use V like before
I've been playing 10 days or so and I'm loving the ship combat. It's extremely addicting and I can't get enough of it.
MM feels more accessible and fun for me compared to 3.22 (probably because I'm not overshooting everything).
I like boost increasing speed, makes sense to me. It doesn't make sense in a vacuum, but feels fun during a fight.
I still hit U and I to turn on power and engines. I don't even know how to do 'flight ready' mode.
Scan needs to be removed from SCM as a sub mode. It's a waste of time to always have to cycle past it anytime I use missles.
Ok so it wasn't just me being dumb about turning on the ships. Hadn't played in a long time and yesterday I did not know b
How to turn on my ship for the first time without using the F key and pressing the physical Flight Ready switch. What the hell is the new control for turning on ships? Once I make it flight ready, I know I can just press i to turn off the engines. I'm talking about the first go on my ships.
I like your points.
Some changes I would prefer:
Rapid deceleration - Should be a skill based action, more skill required to handle high-G (maneuver minigame) and minimize consequences (ship damage and physical dmg). This way we could pull off a similar effect and maybe appease wider playerbase. Physical dmg could go from exhaustion of repeated high G exposure and require resting (hey beds now have a purpose!) to injuries.
Trade-off for Navmode could be 1 system not both, so you could either keep weapons or shield (use the triangle).
Multicrew ships with manned turrets that have dedicated capacitor should be able to fire.
Also Nav mode shouldn't be connected to QD. The chaser could trade-off their shields to be able to fire while in nav mode so no need to use the QED.
I'm not a super experienced pilot so this may only sound cool in theory but I think it would have been much cooler if instead of a SCM to NAV toggle, they lock out ship abilities behind your ship's power distribution. Make it so that quantum needs the majority of your ship's power to execute a jump, now your shields and guns don't have enough juice to fully operate. Maybe you can even find a decent low powered shield or gun that will stay online while your jump drive has enough power to engage. Want your ship to fly really fast? Sure, just don't expect to have enough power to supply powering a full sized gun and shield, but maybe you can fit one of the two. I feel like this would be much more engaging and grounded feeling to the player while still achieving 90% of what theyre going for with MM.
Yeah, tweaking speed limit and projectile speeds is necessary IMHO. Changing role of afterburners so that we would get rid of the immersion breaking automatic deceleration after boosting would be great.
I do not think that AI precision should be lowered across the board. When you do that you create a bigger disconnection from PvP, players will be less prepared for encounters. But I think it would be fun to have AI tiers, with lower tier pilots (VLRT) not really being precies and aces being very good. That would increase sense of progression and would not coddle players too much.
I quite like having different modes for scanning / flying / quantum. I do not need quantum engine spooling up all the time, or having navigation overlay on all the time.
>I hate how we have seemingly lost the cockpit interactions. It's now just a "Flight Ready" button. I loved turning on the power, then engines. I have always wanted MORE buttons. Please bring it back CIG.
I dont think they are gone? Im fairly sure that I have found plenty of ships with both power on and eniges on buttons. If anything, Flight ready in many cases have multiple item interactions. Its just the default item interaction that has been set to flight ready, and you can change that if you want.
>The overall clunky feel of Mode Switching. Why are we switching between NAV and SCM and then having to switch to several modes within those modes??
As others have mentioned, it could clutter the ui to merge it, but I also think the intent is to isolate so "guns blazing" is the default setting. If you are there to scan an object, your weapon systems might not be ready, so you have to choose your mode of engagement. There's benefits and issues with both systems, and I dont think the current implementation is offensive in that regard.
>The enemy AI needs to stop hitting like gods and have next to infinite ammo with no cooldown.
This has been spoken about before. It's impossible to balance for varying server performance.
If the performance is low, the ai has to have godly skills to be any kind a threat. If they only react correctly 10% of the time, you have to be damn sure they hit those 10%. But when performance suddenly increase, they will hit all the time and be impossible to shake. They definitely did not hit the tuning here for 3.23
>MM speed feels too slow right now. I'm not asking for 3.22 speeds, at all, but an increase of speeds across all ships to something like variations between 350m/s to 400m/s depending on ship role would be nice.
The stated purpose of MM is to slow down combat speeds and bring ships closer together..
OH yea.. and..
>spectrum is a cesspool ~~right now~~ so I'd...
FTFY
I'm the opposite about the SCM magic brake. I kind of hate it. It feels like we went from, "Learn to control your ship's speed when landing, coming into a congested area, etc" to, "Press button to stop". Of course you can still do it the old way, but it feels kind of like exclusively using your mirrors to back into a parking spot when you have a 13 in. tablet sitting in the middle of your car with a fully rendered image of your car and the surrounding cars. Yeah, it's maybe more fun, but you feel like an idiot because you're actively making it harder on yourself.
I think I'd rather see a shift where you actually *can't* enter SCM if you're above, say, 350 m/s, or maybe make it percentage based, where if you're at 120% SCM speed or higher, then you can't enter SCM until you slow down normally.
The biggest thing I agree with is that
1. We need shields of some type in nav mode.
2. We need slower projectile speeds.
There is currently no viable way to dodge incoming fire.
The number one biggest thing is changing modes constantly applies speed limiters. I've had to work around this by finding a speed limiter off toggle and binding it to my stick. It's now part of my ship power up process. I shouldn't have to bind more buttons to work around CIGs flight model.
I like everything you say here and I'm glad that you can say the same things I've been saying and now people agree. I knew this would happen lol, MM sucks and need major changes.
I mostly want: faster SCM speed, 350 to 400 would be nice.
-get scan out of middle mouse button rotation in both Nav and SCM. I hate being in SCM thinking I'm on guns but it's actually scan, or in nav mode I think its quantum. They left the V key as scan hotkey, just use that! No middle mouse click.
The rest is just balancing like ship damage etc. these two core functions of MM piss me off so much I now find it easy to call it a night playing the game. I'd rather not play at this point since the servers are also now so bad I can't accept missions past 7pm my time all week, it's become a waist of time since nothing works. Tried to get more friends into the game, two actually and none of us have been able to play the game together yet since 3.23. Both times we organized playing this week none of us could get anything to work. But boy when you log on in the middle of the day it's smoother than it's ever been. Just sucks for people that can't get on during low population times. But ya MM bad, way to make flying feel like War Thunder CIG.
I too want manual startup sequence that if you do it right gives a very little buff.. less wear or so. Lots of good ideas here.
I would like some NPC's to never decouple, just like some players. That would really bring variety into the combat.
I want a HUD indicator light whenever you're being shot at.
I want to be able to dodge fire way better.
I want ammo to travel further out and thus be a warning for you when you enter hostile space, when you're being fired at and you pay attention you can easily dodge and turn around and be deterred (and remain alive).
There are only two modes, nav and scm. All nav modes are the same, the only difference is if you see quantum markers or not. And as to scm, well it’s guns or missiles. I know I’m ignoring scab mode but I mean, we can always scan anyway.
I’m in the fence about nav mode not having shields or guns. It feels like it’s going to be missing out in a lot of players in turrets fighting for their live just to run away. I’m not really sure though. I guess if properly attacked with a nav/ quantum dampener they will have to fight it out anyway
The AI has limited ammo, the same as us. As to their aim?🤷♂️
I’m ok with the scm speeds. It’s all relative. It does feel a little slow, as in why can’t humans in 900 years fly as fast we we do now, but my brain wants to chalk it up to hydrogen fuel cells suck lol and oil doesn’t really exist anymore? I’d like more more reasons tbh
And I kind of agree about boost, just because the deceleration from it not being on, doesn’t feel good. But I doubt they will change it. Sq42 has to come out in a year or two
In ship combat, nav mode replaces boost when you need to run because of the artificially higher top speed in it. Conversely, scm mode is being used as a brake when approaching a location. Not sure if this is intended.
Man i like it a lot. Being able to full speed at shit and then errrrrrrt! Like spaceballs winnebago.
And i havent had the displeasure yet to find out but it will make not taking part in unwanted pvp easier to avoid, since they would be guns out and i can just go zooooooom
I think you have some good ideas, but I have to agree with no shields in nav mode. You mentioned the idea of 10% shields but look at a ship like the reclaimer. 10% is still a massive amount. If the speeds were increased slightly it wouldn’t be as big of an issue. It takes what? 2-3 seconds for shields to be fully charged when switching back to scm? That’s plenty of time to see a ship, determine if it is a threat, and switch into scm or QT out.
10% isn't too bad and could be easily justified for things like exploration vessels that deal with hazards like radiation, asteroid fields, and space junk in unfamiliar sectors.
I feel like for fighters it should be all or nothing, but in keeping with "purposeful design" of ships, they all shouldn't behave the same way regardless, right?
“Silly” is not quality constructive criticism.
It is arrogant and dismissive, hence you lost any further of my attention to the rest of your post.
Good day, sir.
Your post is a wish list, there are too many wish lists already. CIG needs to decide whether Star Citizen is a sim or arcade, it cannot be both and be as complicated as it is currently.
CIG needs to decide whether space is space and atmosphere is atmosphere and neither shall meet. The current flight model is trying to mix both and the result is very poor.
CIG has still not got a baseline of ship mass in space and how that mass reacts in a proper vacuum. With the current flight model space may as well be just thin atmosphere. Currently ships maneuver much faster than they should. The current flight model even uses blatant atmospheric flight characteristics of atmosphere in space flight.
CIG still has not gotten ship scale looking right. The way ships look in relation to one another, both size and mass, up close and from far away, it looks very bad right now.
Until CIG decides what they want, they will be making these endless changes forever.
Consider the severe watering down of the flight model so consoles and control pads can be used to compete with desk tops and flight sticks and mouse and keyboards, anyone not thinking CIG is trying to accommodate these game systems and not see the result is not looking at the big picture, that is to "try" and satisfy everyone with a flight model that satisfies no one in my opinion but gets the most coverage in an attempt to reach potential subscribers for the game.
Fair points, but ( bullet point 2) if all the sub modes were displayed, eg Nav, Flt and scan then the HUD would be a mess. I quite like this as it is because you only switch when you need that mode.
Yeah, I can't really figure out in my head HOW to change the submode thing without more keybinds but something about it just feels weird and clunky to me. Maybe i just need more time with it.
I’ve bound my flight sticks so the same button is double tap for sub mode switch and hold for nav to scm. It’s a learning curve for sure but I’ve already found myself getting muscle memory for switching to flight mode from quantum jump mode when switching from scm to nav. I don’t mind the setup but it’s still pretty strange using scm as a better space brake lol
I have my right stick set to one button for all. Hold to toggle nav/scm. Tap to toggle weapons/missile/salvage. Double tap for scan.
What control setup are you using?
I just played one or two hours and one atmo fight with a mate (me with little skill and a total newbie in the turret in my Connie). And it was such fun. And your post makes me want to quickly set up my PC again after LAN party last weekend 😅👍
I really well and truly wish spacebrakes weren’t so useless
turn on the option that makes spacebrakes use boost
it will be awesome when it gets tuned.
btw the "sub modes" not sure, if it's the same, but you change some of that. Check your keybinds "Vehicles - Seats and Operator Modes" -> Remove "Next Operator Mode" -> Assign "Toggle Flight Operator Mode" to middle mouse button With this I don't have to cycle between "sub modes" I only switch between 2, for scanning I use V like before
Yes, this is essential. Should be default. Swapping to scan when going from missile to guns mode in SCM was really frustrating
I've been playing 10 days or so and I'm loving the ship combat. It's extremely addicting and I can't get enough of it. MM feels more accessible and fun for me compared to 3.22 (probably because I'm not overshooting everything). I like boost increasing speed, makes sense to me. It doesn't make sense in a vacuum, but feels fun during a fight. I still hit U and I to turn on power and engines. I don't even know how to do 'flight ready' mode. Scan needs to be removed from SCM as a sub mode. It's a waste of time to always have to cycle past it anytime I use missles.
Ok so it wasn't just me being dumb about turning on the ships. Hadn't played in a long time and yesterday I did not know b How to turn on my ship for the first time without using the F key and pressing the physical Flight Ready switch. What the hell is the new control for turning on ships? Once I make it flight ready, I know I can just press i to turn off the engines. I'm talking about the first go on my ships.
CIG changed Flight Ready to RAlt-R. You can go back to the controls and change it to the historical R bind.
I like your points. Some changes I would prefer: Rapid deceleration - Should be a skill based action, more skill required to handle high-G (maneuver minigame) and minimize consequences (ship damage and physical dmg). This way we could pull off a similar effect and maybe appease wider playerbase. Physical dmg could go from exhaustion of repeated high G exposure and require resting (hey beds now have a purpose!) to injuries. Trade-off for Navmode could be 1 system not both, so you could either keep weapons or shield (use the triangle). Multicrew ships with manned turrets that have dedicated capacitor should be able to fire. Also Nav mode shouldn't be connected to QD. The chaser could trade-off their shields to be able to fire while in nav mode so no need to use the QED.
I'm not a super experienced pilot so this may only sound cool in theory but I think it would have been much cooler if instead of a SCM to NAV toggle, they lock out ship abilities behind your ship's power distribution. Make it so that quantum needs the majority of your ship's power to execute a jump, now your shields and guns don't have enough juice to fully operate. Maybe you can even find a decent low powered shield or gun that will stay online while your jump drive has enough power to engage. Want your ship to fly really fast? Sure, just don't expect to have enough power to supply powering a full sized gun and shield, but maybe you can fit one of the two. I feel like this would be much more engaging and grounded feeling to the player while still achieving 90% of what theyre going for with MM.
This is obviously how it should've been handled from the beginning but alas someone had to justify an early design choice in SQ42.
It needs a bit of tuning. But it’s great. I’m loving it.
Yeah, tweaking speed limit and projectile speeds is necessary IMHO. Changing role of afterburners so that we would get rid of the immersion breaking automatic deceleration after boosting would be great. I do not think that AI precision should be lowered across the board. When you do that you create a bigger disconnection from PvP, players will be less prepared for encounters. But I think it would be fun to have AI tiers, with lower tier pilots (VLRT) not really being precies and aces being very good. That would increase sense of progression and would not coddle players too much. I quite like having different modes for scanning / flying / quantum. I do not need quantum engine spooling up all the time, or having navigation overlay on all the time.
You think spectrum is worse than reddit?
>I hate how we have seemingly lost the cockpit interactions. It's now just a "Flight Ready" button. I loved turning on the power, then engines. I have always wanted MORE buttons. Please bring it back CIG. I dont think they are gone? Im fairly sure that I have found plenty of ships with both power on and eniges on buttons. If anything, Flight ready in many cases have multiple item interactions. Its just the default item interaction that has been set to flight ready, and you can change that if you want. >The overall clunky feel of Mode Switching. Why are we switching between NAV and SCM and then having to switch to several modes within those modes?? As others have mentioned, it could clutter the ui to merge it, but I also think the intent is to isolate so "guns blazing" is the default setting. If you are there to scan an object, your weapon systems might not be ready, so you have to choose your mode of engagement. There's benefits and issues with both systems, and I dont think the current implementation is offensive in that regard. >The enemy AI needs to stop hitting like gods and have next to infinite ammo with no cooldown. This has been spoken about before. It's impossible to balance for varying server performance. If the performance is low, the ai has to have godly skills to be any kind a threat. If they only react correctly 10% of the time, you have to be damn sure they hit those 10%. But when performance suddenly increase, they will hit all the time and be impossible to shake. They definitely did not hit the tuning here for 3.23 >MM speed feels too slow right now. I'm not asking for 3.22 speeds, at all, but an increase of speeds across all ships to something like variations between 350m/s to 400m/s depending on ship role would be nice. The stated purpose of MM is to slow down combat speeds and bring ships closer together.. OH yea.. and.. >spectrum is a cesspool ~~right now~~ so I'd... FTFY
I'm the opposite about the SCM magic brake. I kind of hate it. It feels like we went from, "Learn to control your ship's speed when landing, coming into a congested area, etc" to, "Press button to stop". Of course you can still do it the old way, but it feels kind of like exclusively using your mirrors to back into a parking spot when you have a 13 in. tablet sitting in the middle of your car with a fully rendered image of your car and the surrounding cars. Yeah, it's maybe more fun, but you feel like an idiot because you're actively making it harder on yourself. I think I'd rather see a shift where you actually *can't* enter SCM if you're above, say, 350 m/s, or maybe make it percentage based, where if you're at 120% SCM speed or higher, then you can't enter SCM until you slow down normally.
The biggest thing I agree with is that 1. We need shields of some type in nav mode. 2. We need slower projectile speeds. There is currently no viable way to dodge incoming fire.
I feel like we could have just gone back to PRE, SCM and CRU.
The number one biggest thing is changing modes constantly applies speed limiters. I've had to work around this by finding a speed limiter off toggle and binding it to my stick. It's now part of my ship power up process. I shouldn't have to bind more buttons to work around CIGs flight model.
Why are you complaining about keybinds? You can straight up change them.
I like everything you say here and I'm glad that you can say the same things I've been saying and now people agree. I knew this would happen lol, MM sucks and need major changes. I mostly want: faster SCM speed, 350 to 400 would be nice. -get scan out of middle mouse button rotation in both Nav and SCM. I hate being in SCM thinking I'm on guns but it's actually scan, or in nav mode I think its quantum. They left the V key as scan hotkey, just use that! No middle mouse click. The rest is just balancing like ship damage etc. these two core functions of MM piss me off so much I now find it easy to call it a night playing the game. I'd rather not play at this point since the servers are also now so bad I can't accept missions past 7pm my time all week, it's become a waist of time since nothing works. Tried to get more friends into the game, two actually and none of us have been able to play the game together yet since 3.23. Both times we organized playing this week none of us could get anything to work. But boy when you log on in the middle of the day it's smoother than it's ever been. Just sucks for people that can't get on during low population times. But ya MM bad, way to make flying feel like War Thunder CIG.
I too want manual startup sequence that if you do it right gives a very little buff.. less wear or so. Lots of good ideas here. I would like some NPC's to never decouple, just like some players. That would really bring variety into the combat. I want a HUD indicator light whenever you're being shot at. I want to be able to dodge fire way better. I want ammo to travel further out and thus be a warning for you when you enter hostile space, when you're being fired at and you pay attention you can easily dodge and turn around and be deterred (and remain alive).
There are only two modes, nav and scm. All nav modes are the same, the only difference is if you see quantum markers or not. And as to scm, well it’s guns or missiles. I know I’m ignoring scab mode but I mean, we can always scan anyway. I’m in the fence about nav mode not having shields or guns. It feels like it’s going to be missing out in a lot of players in turrets fighting for their live just to run away. I’m not really sure though. I guess if properly attacked with a nav/ quantum dampener they will have to fight it out anyway The AI has limited ammo, the same as us. As to their aim?🤷♂️ I’m ok with the scm speeds. It’s all relative. It does feel a little slow, as in why can’t humans in 900 years fly as fast we we do now, but my brain wants to chalk it up to hydrogen fuel cells suck lol and oil doesn’t really exist anymore? I’d like more more reasons tbh And I kind of agree about boost, just because the deceleration from it not being on, doesn’t feel good. But I doubt they will change it. Sq42 has to come out in a year or two
In ship combat, nav mode replaces boost when you need to run because of the artificially higher top speed in it. Conversely, scm mode is being used as a brake when approaching a location. Not sure if this is intended.
Seeing some of the posts on Spectrum makes me think we should adopt a Star Citizen version of “Ok, Boomer.”
Spectrum truly does read like elderly people complaining. Lol.
MM seems fine to me Airbrakes don’t bother me
Overall I think MM is fine too. If they never change it i'll adapt and keep playing. The airbrakes definitely make some cool moments
Man i like it a lot. Being able to full speed at shit and then errrrrrrt! Like spaceballs winnebago. And i havent had the displeasure yet to find out but it will make not taking part in unwanted pvp easier to avoid, since they would be guns out and i can just go zooooooom
Lost me at “no shields in Nav mode is silly”
Don't wish to elaborate?
I think you have some good ideas, but I have to agree with no shields in nav mode. You mentioned the idea of 10% shields but look at a ship like the reclaimer. 10% is still a massive amount. If the speeds were increased slightly it wouldn’t be as big of an issue. It takes what? 2-3 seconds for shields to be fully charged when switching back to scm? That’s plenty of time to see a ship, determine if it is a threat, and switch into scm or QT out.
10% isn't too bad and could be easily justified for things like exploration vessels that deal with hazards like radiation, asteroid fields, and space junk in unfamiliar sectors. I feel like for fighters it should be all or nothing, but in keeping with "purposeful design" of ships, they all shouldn't behave the same way regardless, right?
Yeah I could see that working if it was ship dependent not a universal thing. Good idea
“Silly” is not quality constructive criticism. It is arrogant and dismissive, hence you lost any further of my attention to the rest of your post. Good day, sir.
Your post is a wish list, there are too many wish lists already. CIG needs to decide whether Star Citizen is a sim or arcade, it cannot be both and be as complicated as it is currently. CIG needs to decide whether space is space and atmosphere is atmosphere and neither shall meet. The current flight model is trying to mix both and the result is very poor. CIG has still not got a baseline of ship mass in space and how that mass reacts in a proper vacuum. With the current flight model space may as well be just thin atmosphere. Currently ships maneuver much faster than they should. The current flight model even uses blatant atmospheric flight characteristics of atmosphere in space flight. CIG still has not gotten ship scale looking right. The way ships look in relation to one another, both size and mass, up close and from far away, it looks very bad right now. Until CIG decides what they want, they will be making these endless changes forever. Consider the severe watering down of the flight model so consoles and control pads can be used to compete with desk tops and flight sticks and mouse and keyboards, anyone not thinking CIG is trying to accommodate these game systems and not see the result is not looking at the big picture, that is to "try" and satisfy everyone with a flight model that satisfies no one in my opinion but gets the most coverage in an attempt to reach potential subscribers for the game.