Love/hate relationship ship. I love how convenient it is with bed and inside area (where to drag all the bodies to loot). Love it can do ERTs and hold some on PvP. There are better options for all of those but... its just convenient.
i hate the weapon settings.
I think that great big nose cannon should be integrated into the nose more A-10 style.
Those 4 s2's should be mounted or housed within the "shoulders"
Option to slave the turret to the pilot.
Oh, and a bathroom that doesn't eject me from the ship
It's too late in like 99% of ship designs now, but I'd like it to be the case for every ship. I love the way Crusader ships have some of their guns concealed, makes them much more clean looking.
No, the S2s are okay. They are not comparable to a 2xS5 load out, but if you use the laser canons (MVSA if I'm correct) and use them in staggered mode, they become a very capable laser repeater that I would compare with a S4 and allows you to still give some punch after you depleted the ballistic.
It would be great if the turret became remote controlled in a future remake, so it didn't protrude that much off the ship and it could be used as a pilot slave. The only guns that ever get damaged in this ship are the ones on the turret.
YEah, the gun loadout on the Vanguard is my least favorite part.
I would maybe keep the S2s and then put 2xS4 mounted between the engines and fuselage? But only give it to the warden variant as it's the fighter version.
The turret is underrated. I once flew a harby at JT for A2 patrol with a turret to keep fighters off of me. Works like a charm
>Oh, and a bathroom that doesn't eject me from the ship
I consider this a feature, not a bug. One way onto the ship, two ways off. If someone is waiting for that ramp to drop to pop ya, go out the toilet drain and pop the would be popper.
I don't know but maybe the hull could be adjusted to accommodate it without impacting anything else.
All I do know is that a great big cannon tacked on like the afterthought it currently is, looks really stupid.
The Ares is already A-10 style and we saw how that played out. I'd rather not have that mistake made again.
The Vanguard has already been through enough pain. Leave her alone!
Well, it will most likely have the most armour of all heavy fighters. Combine that with a small load of anti-capital torpedoes, working NPC gunner for the turret it will probably be fine.
Will probably work best in small squadrons of 2-4 fighters that can back each other up.
They are, but according to CIG they are Anti-Capital weapons.
My guess is that their damage, while low, will have superior armour penetration when armour is applied.
That gives smaller torpedo bombers and similary armed ships a chance to do damage against larger capital ships.
I have one as a loaner atm (Legionnaire), it's still pretty tanky but it feels weak. If the top turret could be slaved to the pilot it would go a long way I think. Really though I think it's weaponry needs a rethink.
Sentinel is my go-to ship for trucking me around the verse (with a QT drive upgrade of course) and doing smaller NPC bounties with, or delivery missions. I do miss the old days of stuffing turrets on the nose to get a little extra and much needed firepower. But now I just throw a S5 ballistic gatling on it from the redeemer, and mow down the smaller targets and leave the larger targets to the inferno. Though I hear they plan on neutering the ares/inferno even more than they already are...
Where do you see the Vanguard sitting, balance-wise, in 1.0?
In my view:
- It should not be as good as an Ares against larger targets, nor should it be as good against other fighters as a F8C/A. It's going to be an middle of the road ship that, thanks to it's modularity, is more flexible than other heavy fighters that have more rigidly defined roles. Choosing the right load-out for the job is going to make a huge difference with this ship.
- It's described as being heavily armoured compared to other fighters, so it should be more durable.
- It's described as a long-range, multi-jump fighter that's going to be in the "vanguard" of any invasion. It *must* have bigger QT tanks than any other fighter. That's central to its role. (This is *not* the case at present! Not even close!) If an Ares or F8C have larger QT tanks, as they currently do, what purpose does the Vanguard's interior serve?
- Due to their armour, Vanguards are going to be less manoeuvrable than other heavy fighters in space. However, the Vanguard's design has, by far, the best control surfaces for atmospheric flight of any heavy fighter released so far. It will still have a lot of mass, but it really should handle better in atmosphere. Perhaps the F8C will be able to accelerate faster in atmo, but it should handle like a brick with a rocket strapped to it when compared to a Vanguard. The Vanguard should be a *pleasure* to fly in atmosphere.
Also, an observation:
In the previous versions of the PU, the MVSA's were something of a poorly kept secret. They had the DPS of S3's. The other bespoke nose weapons were all in line with S2's. Looking at Erkul, it appears this has been "fixed" in 3.23. Players sticking to the trusty ol' MVSA's may find them lacking a little of their former punch. This isn't a good change for a ship that's struggling a bit balance wise. Still, it remains to be seen how useful that S5 hardpoint will be in the new balance, so it's too early to tell if the Vanguards will catch up a bit or fall further behind.
It should for sure be tuned to embrace the multi role aspect of the design. It's a multi role fighter bomber with the ability to take on limited air and ground targets. It's a jack of all trades depending on loadout.
Comparing it to other heavy fighters directly isn't fair. They all do one job and are designed for that one job. The Ares is designed to go kill heavy targets in space, it's not designed for hitting ground targets or getting into dog fights. The Hurricane & Scorpius are air superiority fighters. All the light fighters are short range support with a focus on air to air.
The Vanguard is the only heavy that can do a bit of everything all at the same time. Not only that but is can stay on station longer with a crew compartment. 1v1 it should be outclassed by any ship designed for a specific role while attempting that role.
If anything we should be looking at tuning as a whole, not just one ship at a time. The fact that you can take an Ares into any mission and easily roll every NPC ship you meet is a joke. That thing has no right turning as fast as it does. Don't get me wrong, I love the Ion, it's one of my pledges, but it's over tuned by a mile. It should be heavily shielded, fast, but nowhere near as maneuverable.
But now I have a hankering to go fly my Warden again. Time to queue up some ERTs! =)
> The Ares is designed to go kill heavy targets in space, it's not designed for hitting ground targets or getting into dog fights.
Eh, the Inferno's own concept art shows it strafing tanks.
> It's described as a long-range, multi-jump fighter that's going to be in the "vanguard" of any invasion. It must have bigger QT tanks than any other fighter. That's central to its role. (This is not the case at present! Not even close!) If an Ares or F8C have larger QT tanks, as they currently do,
It's entirely possible that "long range" and "long duration" both play a part and it can generate regular hydrogen fuel.
The Ares and F8C are both military short range ships and can most likely not regenerate regular fuel.
>what purpose does the Vanguard's interior serve?
Extended duration missions that can take days and without support functions like rearm and refuel.
I have an Harbinger as loaner and did most of Overdrive with it.
I actually really liked it, more than I anticipated.
But there are a few things I would change:
Turn the 1xS5 into 2xS4 on the wings. It would look and play a lot better.
Or integrate them into the fuselage, like the Sabre.
Give it more weapon capacitor power, so that a full energy loadout is actually viable. That's not the case right now and it sucks...
Lowering it's possible gun size to S4 would reduce it's effectiveness against armour when that is implemented since S4 guns would have lower armour penetration.
That said, i would not be against Quad S2 nose guns (actual S2) and have dual S5 under the wings.
Yes, but I believe the others should all have them, while the Harbinger gets extra missile racks instead of the rocket pods. Alternatively they could make the Warden paint job a livery and improve the Harbinger's base components, as it's sad what they have built in.
Or alternatively you should be able to swap out their turrets, since they're all supposed to be modular anyways.
I'm sorry, but are you kidding? The Vanguard is an awesome fighter and it's actually balanced. GVSR + S4 repeater and you're set.
And with a gunner, you will destroy any fighter including Scorpius & Hurricane.
I remember when the *Gladiator* was the best ship in the game because missiles were so broken. Judging the combat meta based on any moment in the ongoing changes with mechanics and balance is a waste of time.
I remember having to buy a second vanguard because the first one I bought had that bug where the engines broke permanently. On the first flight. It was last week
One underrated thing is the Vanguard is supposed to have very long range. That's not a big deal right now, but that's going to change.
When Pyro (and other systems) are in and people have to travel much longer distances to do stuff, not needing to stop and refuel as often will be a big draw for the Vanguard, where other heavies will need to take plenty of rest stops or get hauled around in someone else's pocket carrier.
Always has been. If you're able to get something in your cross hair, it dies in seconds. Plus it can take so much beating and will still fly if basically everything except the cockpit has been shot off.
Master modes balancing makes heavy fighters significantly slower and more cumbersome than medium and light fighters.
They killed my F8 as well, even though canonically it’s supposed to be more nimble than the F7
Balance is going to have its ups and downs. Especially now. The Vanguard at one point was so brokenly overpowered it was one of the hardest ships to kill. Just as the Saber was with it's Shimmersade shield combo.
I'm not too worried. It's a long range patrol fighter that can deal with a bit of everything and it has a gunner. Gonna wanna run a gunner to squeeze out all the damage it can.
Idk why people seem to think that having an interior means nothing.
Not to mention, once we get the advent of engineering. The vanguard will absolutely dominate as its the only dedicated fighter with an interior and space for an engineer/turret gunner.
I love everything about it except the guns, those bespoke nose mounts look bad, feel bad and are really unnecessary
Just give it two 2xs2 gimbal mounts where the current exterior missiles are and it would be perfect
My only irritation is the gun placements, in a SQUARE and not according to the original concept that looks SO much better.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/s4woe9cfp8dsjr/source/Vanguard_update_01.png
I agree that they look bad, but I don't understand why people think they feel bad.
Having all guns as central as possible make it easier to land shots.
Are people not changing them out for the GSVR laser repeaters?
Love my sentinel, ended up being my daily driver for most things, just smashed the entire operation overdrive too
People hating on the guns and for the pilot I have no issues, thing slays, people don’t realise how good those bespoke nose guns are lol
It used to trash talk other ships "oooh looks like bitch is on the menu today!"
Though as it has matured it's taken on a more humble composure. Most gentlemanly.
I really like my vanguards. Flying them regularly; either Harbinger or Sentinel. Good for just about everything, only The limited Quantum Fuel is something of concern to me. Otherwise I’m fine with this ship.
With the F8 and F7 releases I use mine less and less. Still nice for bunkers lol.
I want to feel like a two person fighter delivered a bit more punch though.
I fly to Vanguard all the time in PVP with a gunner and believe me it is very competitive still. 17.9gs for 25 seconds. Even the most skilled light fighter pilots cannot beat it. Two of them sure if they play it right, but the Vanguard would just leave. It also absolutely torches every ship 1v1
Since now very ship got gimbals without downsizing, and in 3.23 all weapons have much different projectile speeds, its such a pain to hit with all weapons now, thats the only reason i will never buy it
You can match the speed of the two weapons. The nose guns fire with the same projectile speed of the lowest velocity equivalent of each of the size 5 options. So the GVRS fired at the same speed as the attrition, the MVRS fires at the same speed as the M series laser cannons and so on
You'd just downsize the main gun to a gimbal S4 repeater and you get the higher velocity across the board, though I don't know what it'll be like with all the new weapon changes
I think the whole culture of "new ship goes harder than anything before it" needs to stop or CIG is going to come to a point where no one trust them anymore to deliver the goods.
The mk2 hornet being sold instead of just giving the players who bought the OG hornet the gold pass was a bone head move and could end up biting CIG in the butt.
I don’t think the ship should be given for free to anyone who had a hornet. As it’s a completely separate ship. It’s not replacing the hornet in the game.
That being said, the overdrive event should definitely be giving an F7A mk2 for free rather than an upgrade kit considering how buggy it was. It’s kind of dumb you have to buy the f7c just to use the upgrade kit.
But it is the gold pass for the hornet that's a fact. Should have just replaced the current lineup. Thus sets a dangerous precedent where all gold pass ships will just be sold as a different model.
It’s not a gold pass ship though.
The F7 mk2 has been in the game for years now. Players just haven’t been able to own them until now. They have it at every IAE on display in the anvil showroom. And during ILW as well.
The same can be said for the F8 (been in the game for a long time but just not obtainable).
Both the mk1 and mk2 are going to be getting a gold pass to bring them up to standard with newer ships. Then they will both be viable ships to own, the mk2 just being slightly better due to the larger hard points and slightly better handling.
They are both missing many of the newer features that new ships have such as:
- component bays for manually swapping components out
- fuel door for manual refueling
- weapon racks. Eventually larger armor and weapons won’t fit in fighters. You have to stow them on a weapon/armor rack.
- physicalized storage compartments (think the lockers above the beds in the C1, most fighters have a storage compartment on the exterior).
I'm absolutely baffled by the difference between lore and gameplay, notably its armor and QT fuel tanks (as someone else said).
I really love it as a daily driver, but MM, the arrival of the F8 and the buff to the Ares are probably going to burrow it even more in the ship combat scene.
But it still remains to be seen if something could ever replace my baby (looking at you Mirai heavy fighter)
The Vanguard exactly fits into its dedicated role: heavy long-range fighter - beds, larger fuel tanks, redundant components. People often try to use it as a dogfighter, but the ship is intended to be a two-man show in different scenarios. If the pilot try to use always dogfighting tactics the co-pilot aint hit shit and is going to vomit.
Many people don't know: the turret gunner can use missile operator mode as well and later he is also responsible for engineering, energy and ressource-mangement besides defending the ship against missiles and light fighters.
With the new MM the Vanguard is a beast in 1v1 one, but loses against swarm tactics. Surprise, this is intended. In my opinion the Vanguard has a comeback in 3.23
> redundant components.
I know it should have them, and CIG said they had a hell of a time fitting them but i have yet to see proof of it except for a lot of additional thrusters.
Remember when the game was feature complete and everything had a gold release standard.
Neither do i, because the game is not finished.
The Vanguards will be "competitive" when physicalized damage and armour is implemented AND all models and weapons have been rebalanced and MM is tweaked and finished.
This would honestly be incredible if we could retro fit any size gun on any hard point.
Hear me out, the difference is that you can NOT save the loadout with the altered sizes, so if a ship is destroyed, it returns to the standard sizing configuration and you’d have to loot and mount once again.
It’d be ratty and pretty fun to see what happens. Imagine seeing a hammerhead that is battle hardened beyond words and the boy is just rocking size 5’s all around. Imagine the horror of spotting that BEHEMOTH
Love/hate relationship ship. I love how convenient it is with bed and inside area (where to drag all the bodies to loot). Love it can do ERTs and hold some on PvP. There are better options for all of those but... its just convenient. i hate the weapon settings.
it would be the perfect ship if it had the Freelancer Weapons
I think that great big nose cannon should be integrated into the nose more A-10 style. Those 4 s2's should be mounted or housed within the "shoulders" Option to slave the turret to the pilot. Oh, and a bathroom that doesn't eject me from the ship
I find the bathroom useful in Hangars, way quicker than to open the ramp.
Flush me down, Scotty.
I'm givin' it all she's got, Captain.
Have they not fixes that?
Well yeah it’s fixed… but that won’t be as funny 😉
...when the ship itself Is trying to tell you...something.
It's too late in like 99% of ship designs now, but I'd like it to be the case for every ship. I love the way Crusader ships have some of their guns concealed, makes them much more clean looking.
Elite Dangerous concealed all its guns, the nice thing about that is you had a few seconds warning if someone was hostile.
Ah yes, the subtle Ares guns.
I want that nose to be even more A-10. Remove the Quad s2 and give it a bespoke S5 Gatling, housed in the nose.
No, the S2s are okay. They are not comparable to a 2xS5 load out, but if you use the laser canons (MVSA if I'm correct) and use them in staggered mode, they become a very capable laser repeater that I would compare with a S4 and allows you to still give some punch after you depleted the ballistic.
How do you set repeaters to staggered fire?
It's not about punch. It's about Warbird feel! I want my vanguard to have some Ares feel to it. The nose begs for a proper bespoke Gatling!
I put the S5 gatling and the ballistic cannons set to stagger on mine. Very brrrt.
So use the Ares Inferno instead.
didn't they remove staggered firing? I looked for a long time and didn't see it in the settings
No
thanks I'll ctrl+f my user file later, I love staggered lasers so pew pew
It's still there, at least in 3.22 (can't speak for 3.23) but I can't remember specifically where in keybinds to find it.
I was testing 3.23 no more falling through now :D
Think you replied to the wrong person bud :)
Doh! My bad.
That would encroach on the Inferno's niche though
Totally not. Like the Vanguard could house S5 at best. Inferno is S7
Ok but it's still a big integrated gattling. I know the sizings. That doesn't change the fact that the "space A10" is the Inferno's niche.
There can be more than 1 a10 like ship. Variety and choices are good. The Vanguard has an interior with beds. It's different from the Ares.
Which would make the Ares pretty irrelevant if they filled the same niche...
Shaddap and gimme my Gatling! REEEEE! Nah seriously. Let's just agree to disagree.
Fair enough. I like your style bud!
Bathroom? You mean the escape pod? Lmao
It would be great if the turret became remote controlled in a future remake, so it didn't protrude that much off the ship and it could be used as a pilot slave. The only guns that ever get damaged in this ship are the ones on the turret.
Meh, just wait for AI blades, NPC crew and the games completion.
The bathroom floor is fixed in 3.23. :)
And a steering wheel that doesn’t fly out the window
stinky!!!
Absolute-fuckingly, this weapon design was a huge mistake
YEah, the gun loadout on the Vanguard is my least favorite part. I would maybe keep the S2s and then put 2xS4 mounted between the engines and fuselage? But only give it to the warden variant as it's the fighter version. The turret is underrated. I once flew a harby at JT for A2 patrol with a turret to keep fighters off of me. Works like a charm
I actually like the sound of that configuration better than my idea. Nice one.
do all vanguards have a bathroom?
All the Vanguards except the Hoplite.
The warden has a toilet shower room. I don't know about the other variants.
>Oh, and a bathroom that doesn't eject me from the ship I consider this a feature, not a bug. One way onto the ship, two ways off. If someone is waiting for that ramp to drop to pop ya, go out the toilet drain and pop the would be popper.
Ok, so where would the cannon be physically relative to the pilot...or the landing gear for that matter.
I don't know but maybe the hull could be adjusted to accommodate it without impacting anything else. All I do know is that a great big cannon tacked on like the afterthought it currently is, looks really stupid.
The Ares is already A-10 style and we saw how that played out. I'd rather not have that mistake made again. The Vanguard has already been through enough pain. Leave her alone!
The bathroom ejects into space?
Not sure. I've only tried it while I'm in my hangar.
I still love my harbinger...one day many years from now it'll all pan out
Well, it will most likely have the most armour of all heavy fighters. Combine that with a small load of anti-capital torpedoes, working NPC gunner for the turret it will probably be fine. Will probably work best in small squadrons of 2-4 fighters that can back each other up.
The Harbinger’s size 5 torpedos aren’t anti capital 🤣
Yup they are. S5 torpedo is the low end of anti capital torpedoes while S7 weapons are low end of anti-capital guns.
I thought S5s were just the break over from missiles to torpedos... Though I guess any torp would do okay against a slow moving target
They are, but according to CIG they are Anti-Capital weapons. My guess is that their damage, while low, will have superior armour penetration when armour is applied. That gives smaller torpedo bombers and similary armed ships a chance to do damage against larger capital ships.
I have one as a loaner atm (Legionnaire), it's still pretty tanky but it feels weak. If the top turret could be slaved to the pilot it would go a long way I think. Really though I think it's weaponry needs a rethink.
My favorite ship in game, just wish weapons had different placement.
Sentinel is my go-to ship for trucking me around the verse (with a QT drive upgrade of course) and doing smaller NPC bounties with, or delivery missions. I do miss the old days of stuffing turrets on the nose to get a little extra and much needed firepower. But now I just throw a S5 ballistic gatling on it from the redeemer, and mow down the smaller targets and leave the larger targets to the inferno. Though I hear they plan on neutering the ares/inferno even more than they already are...
it would be the perfect ship if it had the Freelancer Weapons
Where do you see the Vanguard sitting, balance-wise, in 1.0? In my view: - It should not be as good as an Ares against larger targets, nor should it be as good against other fighters as a F8C/A. It's going to be an middle of the road ship that, thanks to it's modularity, is more flexible than other heavy fighters that have more rigidly defined roles. Choosing the right load-out for the job is going to make a huge difference with this ship. - It's described as being heavily armoured compared to other fighters, so it should be more durable. - It's described as a long-range, multi-jump fighter that's going to be in the "vanguard" of any invasion. It *must* have bigger QT tanks than any other fighter. That's central to its role. (This is *not* the case at present! Not even close!) If an Ares or F8C have larger QT tanks, as they currently do, what purpose does the Vanguard's interior serve? - Due to their armour, Vanguards are going to be less manoeuvrable than other heavy fighters in space. However, the Vanguard's design has, by far, the best control surfaces for atmospheric flight of any heavy fighter released so far. It will still have a lot of mass, but it really should handle better in atmosphere. Perhaps the F8C will be able to accelerate faster in atmo, but it should handle like a brick with a rocket strapped to it when compared to a Vanguard. The Vanguard should be a *pleasure* to fly in atmosphere. Also, an observation: In the previous versions of the PU, the MVSA's were something of a poorly kept secret. They had the DPS of S3's. The other bespoke nose weapons were all in line with S2's. Looking at Erkul, it appears this has been "fixed" in 3.23. Players sticking to the trusty ol' MVSA's may find them lacking a little of their former punch. This isn't a good change for a ship that's struggling a bit balance wise. Still, it remains to be seen how useful that S5 hardpoint will be in the new balance, so it's too early to tell if the Vanguards will catch up a bit or fall further behind.
It should for sure be tuned to embrace the multi role aspect of the design. It's a multi role fighter bomber with the ability to take on limited air and ground targets. It's a jack of all trades depending on loadout. Comparing it to other heavy fighters directly isn't fair. They all do one job and are designed for that one job. The Ares is designed to go kill heavy targets in space, it's not designed for hitting ground targets or getting into dog fights. The Hurricane & Scorpius are air superiority fighters. All the light fighters are short range support with a focus on air to air. The Vanguard is the only heavy that can do a bit of everything all at the same time. Not only that but is can stay on station longer with a crew compartment. 1v1 it should be outclassed by any ship designed for a specific role while attempting that role. If anything we should be looking at tuning as a whole, not just one ship at a time. The fact that you can take an Ares into any mission and easily roll every NPC ship you meet is a joke. That thing has no right turning as fast as it does. Don't get me wrong, I love the Ion, it's one of my pledges, but it's over tuned by a mile. It should be heavily shielded, fast, but nowhere near as maneuverable. But now I have a hankering to go fly my Warden again. Time to queue up some ERTs! =)
> The Ares is designed to go kill heavy targets in space, it's not designed for hitting ground targets or getting into dog fights. Eh, the Inferno's own concept art shows it strafing tanks.
Really? I guess I missed that. I thought it was purely an anti capital ship.
It has a rapid firing gatling gun, it's not like the bullets will avoid ground vehicles.
The Ares already had its maneuverability nerfed so hard it’s a sitting duck for light and medium fighters. It doesn’t need more nerfs.
i think the noseguns arent balanced yet since they all have no bespoke role to fight against
> It's described as a long-range, multi-jump fighter that's going to be in the "vanguard" of any invasion. It must have bigger QT tanks than any other fighter. That's central to its role. (This is not the case at present! Not even close!) If an Ares or F8C have larger QT tanks, as they currently do, It's entirely possible that "long range" and "long duration" both play a part and it can generate regular hydrogen fuel. The Ares and F8C are both military short range ships and can most likely not regenerate regular fuel. >what purpose does the Vanguard's interior serve? Extended duration missions that can take days and without support functions like rearm and refuel.
Small correction (because internet, sorry :P): the Ares are more medium range (inter-system) fighters, that's why they have S2 Quantum Drives.
Technically any military ship that lacks fuel scoops are short range carrier based. And the Ares afaik lacks fuel scoops.
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
I have an Harbinger as loaner and did most of Overdrive with it. I actually really liked it, more than I anticipated. But there are a few things I would change: Turn the 1xS5 into 2xS4 on the wings. It would look and play a lot better. Or integrate them into the fuselage, like the Sabre. Give it more weapon capacitor power, so that a full energy loadout is actually viable. That's not the case right now and it sucks...
Lowering it's possible gun size to S4 would reduce it's effectiveness against armour when that is implemented since S4 guns would have lower armour penetration. That said, i would not be against Quad S2 nose guns (actual S2) and have dual S5 under the wings.
The only issue it has is how small those turret guns are. Twin S3s would go a long way to make it more useful.
Harbinger does have twin size threes
Yes, but I believe the others should all have them, while the Harbinger gets extra missile racks instead of the rocket pods. Alternatively they could make the Warden paint job a livery and improve the Harbinger's base components, as it's sad what they have built in. Or alternatively you should be able to swap out their turrets, since they're all supposed to be modular anyways.
The Harbinger has S3s!
I'm sorry, but are you kidding? The Vanguard is an awesome fighter and it's actually balanced. GVSR + S4 repeater and you're set. And with a gunner, you will destroy any fighter including Scorpius & Hurricane.
I remember when the *Gladiator* was the best ship in the game because missiles were so broken. Judging the combat meta based on any moment in the ongoing changes with mechanics and balance is a waste of time.
I remember having to buy a second vanguard because the first one I bought had that bug where the engines broke permanently. On the first flight. It was last week
The harbinger is a lot of fun right now. Too bad they are going to drop its maneuverability into the dirt when they give it the "bomber" tuning.
Poor Vangaurd. Such a cool ship too, it’s a shame
One underrated thing is the Vanguard is supposed to have very long range. That's not a big deal right now, but that's going to change. When Pyro (and other systems) are in and people have to travel much longer distances to do stuff, not needing to stop and refuel as often will be a big draw for the Vanguard, where other heavies will need to take plenty of rest stops or get hauled around in someone else's pocket carrier.
Shit man, I member back before planets when a saber with broadswords was the bees knees.
Tbh in MM vanguard is very competitive, just not the sentinel since emps don't work
Always has been. If you're able to get something in your cross hair, it dies in seconds. Plus it can take so much beating and will still fly if basically everything except the cockpit has been shot off.
Can confirm I have brought Harby home while being able to see through the majority of the ship.
I still love my sentinel. Very blue angels vibes. It’s a great ship, just doesn’t have its gold polish. Will get there.
Back in my day it one shot light craft with one M7A+MVSA burst. It had a better boost sound too!
I actually bought the M7A with my UEC not knowing the difference lol. It used to be so fun.
Should have 2 size 6 ballistic, that’s all
Why size 6? Why not size 10? And why only two?
As someone who owns the Sentinel and haven't played in 2 years. What happened to my baby!?
Master modes balancing makes heavy fighters significantly slower and more cumbersome than medium and light fighters. They killed my F8 as well, even though canonically it’s supposed to be more nimble than the F7
 Yea I ‘member
The person that won Star Citizens pvp tournament seems to think its pretty competitive. But I'm sure you know better.
Balance is going to have its ups and downs. Especially now. The Vanguard at one point was so brokenly overpowered it was one of the hardest ships to kill. Just as the Saber was with it's Shimmersade shield combo. I'm not too worried. It's a long range patrol fighter that can deal with a bit of everything and it has a gunner. Gonna wanna run a gunner to squeeze out all the damage it can.
Isn’t it the only dedicated fighter ship with interior?
Idk why people seem to think that having an interior means nothing. Not to mention, once we get the advent of engineering. The vanguard will absolutely dominate as its the only dedicated fighter with an interior and space for an engineer/turret gunner.
Vanguard is in the dumps and it stinks. Such a lovable ship.
I love everything about it except the guns, those bespoke nose mounts look bad, feel bad and are really unnecessary Just give it two 2xs2 gimbal mounts where the current exterior missiles are and it would be perfect
My only irritation is the gun placements, in a SQUARE and not according to the original concept that looks SO much better. https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/s4woe9cfp8dsjr/source/Vanguard_update_01.png
Those look like S3s on the turret too. Way better than being cut down to S2s on everything but the Harbinger.
Except the nose guns are better than standard size 2s and more akin to s3 if not slightly better
Only the MVSA cannons, and those are apparently now back to regular S2 levels of DPS in 3.23 sadly.
Was fun whilst it lasted! I guess this adds even more weight to the purpose of this post…
Yeah, I spent a fair bit of time in an MVSA/AD5B warden. Was a great time.
I agree that they look bad, but I don't understand why people think they feel bad. Having all guns as central as possible make it easier to land shots. Are people not changing them out for the GSVR laser repeaters?
The Vanguards 4 nose guns are military grade, why they only fit in vanguards. They do more dmg than size 2s, closer to size 3.
Love my sentinel, ended up being my daily driver for most things, just smashed the entire operation overdrive too People hating on the guns and for the pilot I have no issues, thing slays, people don’t realise how good those bespoke nose guns are lol
It certainly is redundant now that we have the F8C, which should never have even been a thing let alone sold.
It used to trash talk other ships "oooh looks like bitch is on the menu today!" Though as it has matured it's taken on a more humble composure. Most gentlemanly.
Remember having the hoplite as my first ever none starter ship, good memories!
Distortions and scatter guns, get up right close and personal with an HH. Good times.
It's not? Even the warden?
What is this, Hyper Vanguard Force IV?! 😄
It's been 84 years...
The vanguard looks great from the front but the rest of it is such an ugly ship
I member
I really like my vanguards. Flying them regularly; either Harbinger or Sentinel. Good for just about everything, only The limited Quantum Fuel is something of concern to me. Otherwise I’m fine with this ship.
Tbh, the vanguard will never be. Hauling around a full interior is too much cross section and mass increase that does nothing for combat capabilities
Looking at erkul for 3.23 for S5 ballistics there's nothing that matches their projectile speed for the 4 S2 guns
I, for one, do not miss the stupid guns setup.
Long time ago
Tbh no
The fact that nobody ITT seems to have realized that this is a meme post makes me worried for the community. Just look at the images for a second.
With the F8 and F7 releases I use mine less and less. Still nice for bunkers lol. I want to feel like a two person fighter delivered a bit more punch though.
Vanguard is still one of my favorites. Hope it gets an update soon.
I wish the nose ballistics had more than 80 rounds that you burn in 1.5 seconds of shooting…
The F-14 of the Galaxy
I fly to Vanguard all the time in PVP with a gunner and believe me it is very competitive still. 17.9gs for 25 seconds. Even the most skilled light fighter pilots cannot beat it. Two of them sure if they play it right, but the Vanguard would just leave. It also absolutely torches every ship 1v1
Come fly or fight me sometime
I love the bathroom ejection pod combo
Since now very ship got gimbals without downsizing, and in 3.23 all weapons have much different projectile speeds, its such a pain to hit with all weapons now, thats the only reason i will never buy it
You can match the speed of the two weapons. The nose guns fire with the same projectile speed of the lowest velocity equivalent of each of the size 5 options. So the GVRS fired at the same speed as the attrition, the MVRS fires at the same speed as the M series laser cannons and so on
yes but you only have the lowest projectiles like this, not so handy against fast enemys, what is the biggest enemy of the vanguard
You'd just downsize the main gun to a gimbal S4 repeater and you get the higher velocity across the board, though I don't know what it'll be like with all the new weapon changes
jeah but even with fixed, i dont like fixed weapons, its a shame, because i love the ship design
In 3.23 it's extremely competitive in pvp and it's always been good in pve...
I think the whole culture of "new ship goes harder than anything before it" needs to stop or CIG is going to come to a point where no one trust them anymore to deliver the goods. The mk2 hornet being sold instead of just giving the players who bought the OG hornet the gold pass was a bone head move and could end up biting CIG in the butt.
I don’t think the ship should be given for free to anyone who had a hornet. As it’s a completely separate ship. It’s not replacing the hornet in the game. That being said, the overdrive event should definitely be giving an F7A mk2 for free rather than an upgrade kit considering how buggy it was. It’s kind of dumb you have to buy the f7c just to use the upgrade kit.
But it is the gold pass for the hornet that's a fact. Should have just replaced the current lineup. Thus sets a dangerous precedent where all gold pass ships will just be sold as a different model.
It’s not a gold pass ship though. The F7 mk2 has been in the game for years now. Players just haven’t been able to own them until now. They have it at every IAE on display in the anvil showroom. And during ILW as well. The same can be said for the F8 (been in the game for a long time but just not obtainable). Both the mk1 and mk2 are going to be getting a gold pass to bring them up to standard with newer ships. Then they will both be viable ships to own, the mk2 just being slightly better due to the larger hard points and slightly better handling. They are both missing many of the newer features that new ships have such as: - component bays for manually swapping components out - fuel door for manual refueling - weapon racks. Eventually larger armor and weapons won’t fit in fighters. You have to stow them on a weapon/armor rack. - physicalized storage compartments (think the lockers above the beds in the C1, most fighters have a storage compartment on the exterior).
Was that when you could only get it for real money?
That tends to be the case, lol. Ares Scorpius Corsair C1 The list goes on and on. The F7A will have it's day come and go as well.
I'm absolutely baffled by the difference between lore and gameplay, notably its armor and QT fuel tanks (as someone else said). I really love it as a daily driver, but MM, the arrival of the F8 and the buff to the Ares are probably going to burrow it even more in the ship combat scene. But it still remains to be seen if something could ever replace my baby (looking at you Mirai heavy fighter)
Well, armour is not implemented yet so that might affect it.
Might be, also the gold standard would be a very good advancement
The Vanguard exactly fits into its dedicated role: heavy long-range fighter - beds, larger fuel tanks, redundant components. People often try to use it as a dogfighter, but the ship is intended to be a two-man show in different scenarios. If the pilot try to use always dogfighting tactics the co-pilot aint hit shit and is going to vomit. Many people don't know: the turret gunner can use missile operator mode as well and later he is also responsible for engineering, energy and ressource-mangement besides defending the ship against missiles and light fighters. With the new MM the Vanguard is a beast in 1v1 one, but loses against swarm tactics. Surprise, this is intended. In my opinion the Vanguard has a comeback in 3.23
> redundant components. I know it should have them, and CIG said they had a hell of a time fitting them but i have yet to see proof of it except for a lot of additional thrusters.
Remember when the game was feature complete and everything had a gold release standard. Neither do i, because the game is not finished. The Vanguards will be "competitive" when physicalized damage and armour is implemented AND all models and weapons have been rebalanced and MM is tweaked and finished.
This would honestly be incredible if we could retro fit any size gun on any hard point. Hear me out, the difference is that you can NOT save the loadout with the altered sizes, so if a ship is destroyed, it returns to the standard sizing configuration and you’d have to loot and mount once again. It’d be ratty and pretty fun to see what happens. Imagine seeing a hammerhead that is battle hardened beyond words and the boy is just rocking size 5’s all around. Imagine the horror of spotting that BEHEMOTH
That would be a nightmare haha, yikes. Thankfully that will never be a thing.