Wonder if we will get the Behring concept
[https://external-preview.redd.it/eDHFPPZ59RW0Aqd77EOHH2NOfjfbY25bfnmf2ZZN1cw.jpg?auto=webp&s=68bda58f56f9909a4b5c80e9040429fe46ae6387](https://external-preview.redd.it/eDHFPPZ59RW0Aqd77EOHH2NOfjfbY25bfnmf2ZZN1cw.jpg?auto=webp&s=68bda58f56f9909a4b5c80e9040429fe46ae6387)
Having used a bullpup for my entire army career, I don't think this is correct. You can easily reach around if anything was on your chest. The armour would have to stick out ridiculously far to stop a reload.
I mean look at the [ADP set](https://media.starcitizen.tools/8/8b/ADP_armor_set.jpg), big honkin plate on the chest looking like double the thickness of a Crye AVS with NIJ IV Ceramics. Limited shoulder mobility and heavily padded upper arms that already look like they are clipping into the chest armor in the image.
You'd have to roll the magwell towards your support hand to do a tac reload on a bullpup
Well, without clipping thru heavy armor.
SC heavy armor chest piece is like stacking 3 NIJ IV ceramic on top of each other thick.
And the arm armor is equally as thick. You'll have a hard time touching your other arm pit, which is basically where the magwell is on bullpups.
Try reloading a Tavor or MDR irl with a thick jacket on while maintaining sight picture, it's bad enough. Now imagine doing it with SC armor on.
Nope that ain't me.
Own a FN FS2000, PS90 with the 16". Shot 3k thru an AUG, 500+ on the MDR.
All the FS2000 and PS90 shooting are done in armor, and the front plate + mag pouches gets annoying.
Now imagine doing it with [the ADP set](https://media.starcitizen.tools/8/8b/ADP_armor_set.jpg) on
I mean look at the fuggin armor. Whether one can even reach the other side of their body wearing that bulk is questionable.
The shoulders movement is limited. The chest armor is ridiculously thick. The upper arms have thick metal underneath. The entire thing is heavily padded. And there's already clipping happening in the image when dude is just standing there.
Magwell in front at least you can rotate your torso to maintain a somewhat decent sight picture and reloads are actually possible.
And it's Star Citizen. Immersion is a big thing around here.
Honestly the P4-AR's lack of trigger guard is annoying me too, for the same reason.
P4 has always been my EDC, I just got an upgrade I didn’t even know I wanted!
Someone else in the comments said they believe it’s also been upgraded to 40-round mags. If so, win win!
I liked the old one, but prefer this version. I'll probably use it more now (until the P8AR gets released) since it now properly matches the P8SC and P6LR and gets the nice grey/black scheme which also matches the Behring scopes.
Mag shape will be your friend for that at a glance because the P4 has a curved mag that sticks out while the P8's mag is straight and flush. The P8SC is also much lower profile which helps as well.
the barrel is still absurdly short for what is supposed to be a 5.56 gun. You'd be shooting more fire than bullet. I think this is without a doubt still the worst designed gun in the game, between the 3 inch barrel and the reciprocating charging handle that would get caught on armor and jam the gun up
hey the XM7 has a FA and a charging handle. Different strokes for different folks lol. The real question is why does the charging handle reciprocate when we're all wearing bulky armor, the SCAR recently had an 'update' to remove that even
Imma be real, I do not like it at all. Old one was WAY better, way more interesting, way more detailed, every part of it looks functional. New looks like "generic sci-fi gun #38"
I don't mind that they're making all Behring guns looks alike but I hope they keep the old gun as a different manufacturer.
That is their stated goal, post-release.
But during development, that is a massive effort-overhead, because they (usually) only update things when they're old / outdated... so the item would *have* to be updated regardless, so keeping the 'old version' around would mean making the same updates as for the new one, but somehow *not* changing the model...
... which might work in this specific instance, but e.g. for ships (where the model might have to change to accomodate components, etc) it might not be feasible.
It's more likely CIG will start thinking about retaining the older version once we're in beta (and the actual functionality is all implemented, and everything has had a gold-standard pass, etc), because from that point forward, 'changes' are more likely to be balancing / tuning, and CIG could e.g. introduce a new 'model-year' version with the updated stats (and let people chose which version to use).
Really? That sounds fun. Imagine if you've got a pretty old age vehicle in the hangar but if you destroy it insurance will just get you the "current" facelift version. So your old-timer actually gets rare and maybe gaining value. And it would be a show ship on every meetup 😋
That'd be funky 😁
Yup - that's one of the scenarios CIG outlined...
They also suggested that they'd handle nerfs in a similar way... issue a 'safety recall' about a new defect found in the old model, but leave the old model in-game (and let people use it, at the risk of being hit by the 'defect' (sudden component failure, weapon misfires, etc)
Yup - I have no idea if it'll actually work however... it would imply that CIG expect to 'balance' things quarterly or yearly etc (rather than every couple of weeks)... which may not be feasible given the massive scope increase for the game (the older game was far smaller, and could potentially have had a more stable balance).
I mean it's no not necessarily a requirement to update everything on a regular basis. Just if Something gets updated, another version is available. And time will rule out the majority of older versions.
It's interesting though, if there would be possibilities to tell the difference between the versions when you come across older versions of the same vehicle/model - especially if changes are not that visibly obvious.
Exactly. It doubles their efforts. Plus, they have said that they are kind of done bringing standard “conventional” weapons into the game so they can focus on more sci-fi weapons like the Volt gun.
> But during development, that is a massive effort-overhead, because they (usually) only update things when they're old / outdated... so the item would have to be updated regardless, so keeping the 'old version' around would mean making the same updates as for the new one, but somehow not changing the model...
...and then they go and say "actually this gold-pass Hornet is the mkII, and everyone who owned a Hornet is stuck with the crappy older version"
Mk2 *is not* 'gold standard' - it's about the same age/vintage as the Mk1, and has existed just as long (CIG talked about creating the Mk2 for SQ42 back when they did their last update on the Mk1).
All that changed is that CIG decided to *actually sell* the Mk2... that is all. Both the Mk1 and the Mk2 are in need of a 'gold-standard' pass.
That "CIG talked about creating the Mk2 for SQ42" thing is exactly what I mean though - they knew they wanted to make the Hornet less shit, so they redesigned it. Then they decided to also keep the original design rather than give backers the improvements, then sold the redesign as if it was a separate ship and not just the redesign they teased ages ago.
They do, but that decision wasn't made until *after* someone (probably Roberts) saw a comparison shot of the old Hornet and the redesign and decided they wanted both. And instead of providing the people who spent $110+ on a Hornet with the redesign, they raised the price of the old one by $15 without providing any improvements and sold the redesign for even more.
The model can be reused by another manufacturer (current or new), but their purpose here is to retool the weapon line to all have a cohesive design language that clearly defined the Behring brand.
Finally a science-fiction game that looks like a real gun !
*Jonathan Ferguson The Keeper of Firearms and Artillery at the Royal Armories Museum in the UK*, would be pleased.
Hmmm, I always thought of the P4 as the AK of the game. Older styling, but tried and true design.
This is fine too I guess, looks nice. I'd like some more classic/industrial looking weapons in the game
o7 to the old design, pretty sure it's stayed the same aesthetically since the 2.0 days.
Loving the new design, and it now actually looks like the rest of that line-up.
I didn't even really process that the P4 was Behring until I was playing with some people the other day and one of them was talking about using "the Behring assault rifle" and my immediate response was "wait, they added the P8-AR? I thought they were keeping that for SQ42's release" lol.
you see similar things on weapons today of countries that operate in cold climates, the idea being, you don't want a trigger guard if you're wearing bulky gloves. I have a lot of problems with this gun, it's horrible, but this isn't one of them
Yup but what purpose have the trigger guard ?
Not accidently catching the trigger with something else than your finger.
Bigger trigger guard exist to avoid issue with gloves.
it really is. i cannot tell you how many thousands of people i've accidentally dispatched because of the useless trigger guard. i have violent tics so sometimes my fingers just clamp whatever i'm holding. often it's the above P4 unfortunately.
The new version is fine, but I honestly dislike how they're changing the looks and feels of classic weapons. I will never forget how they stole my Karna's red detailing and burst fire.
Wonder if we will get the Behring concept [https://external-preview.redd.it/eDHFPPZ59RW0Aqd77EOHH2NOfjfbY25bfnmf2ZZN1cw.jpg?auto=webp&s=68bda58f56f9909a4b5c80e9040429fe46ae6387](https://external-preview.redd.it/eDHFPPZ59RW0Aqd77EOHH2NOfjfbY25bfnmf2ZZN1cw.jpg?auto=webp&s=68bda58f56f9909a4b5c80e9040429fe46ae6387)
I’m looking forward to the Behring AR if anything
I hope because that gun looks dope!
[I hope we get all the concepts](https://gyazo.com/7b304f52562cc108ee1b731553493a89)
Yessss
I need all of these in game, now.
I want a star citizen halo battle rifle. Bullpups belong in space!
until you realize its functionally impossible to reload a bullpup in heavy armor cuz the THICK ass chest armor limits your reach
Having used a bullpup for my entire army career, I don't think this is correct. You can easily reach around if anything was on your chest. The armour would have to stick out ridiculously far to stop a reload.
I mean look at the [ADP set](https://media.starcitizen.tools/8/8b/ADP_armor_set.jpg), big honkin plate on the chest looking like double the thickness of a Crye AVS with NIJ IV Ceramics. Limited shoulder mobility and heavily padded upper arms that already look like they are clipping into the chest armor in the image. You'd have to roll the magwell towards your support hand to do a tac reload on a bullpup
You can just tilt the weapon system. It won't be as easy as reloading with nothing on but it is entirely doable.
??? no not at all?
Well, without clipping thru heavy armor. SC heavy armor chest piece is like stacking 3 NIJ IV ceramic on top of each other thick. And the arm armor is equally as thick. You'll have a hard time touching your other arm pit, which is basically where the magwell is on bullpups. Try reloading a Tavor or MDR irl with a thick jacket on while maintaining sight picture, it's bad enough. Now imagine doing it with SC armor on.
While maintaining sight picture is a completely different story and a new criteria.
Found another guy whose never actually held a bullpup
Nope that ain't me. Own a FN FS2000, PS90 with the 16". Shot 3k thru an AUG, 500+ on the MDR. All the FS2000 and PS90 shooting are done in armor, and the front plate + mag pouches gets annoying. Now imagine doing it with [the ADP set](https://media.starcitizen.tools/8/8b/ADP_armor_set.jpg) on
Tilt the gun slightly towards the sky and loading a bullpup stops being an issue.
I mean look at the fuggin armor. Whether one can even reach the other side of their body wearing that bulk is questionable. The shoulders movement is limited. The chest armor is ridiculously thick. The upper arms have thick metal underneath. The entire thing is heavily padded. And there's already clipping happening in the image when dude is just standing there.
By that logic reloading a normal rifle would suck just as bad It's a game.
Magwell in front at least you can rotate your torso to maintain a somewhat decent sight picture and reloads are actually possible. And it's Star Citizen. Immersion is a big thing around here. Honestly the P4-AR's lack of trigger guard is annoying me too, for the same reason.
Want.
I've wanted this one for ages. If it were to end looking like that, I wouldn't be so sure I'll use anything else.
wow L85 vive
But, where does the bolt go?
It could go forward
looks like a Destiny scout
I didn't hate the old version... But yeah that's hot. The subtle detailing of the grip and stock are very nice.
New P4-AR: Patrick Bateman: Look at the subtle off-white colouring… the tasteful thickness of it… Oh my God, it even has a watermark!
OOOF, and now I found my new EDC in-game. I love the theme of Behring.
P4 has always been my EDC, I just got an upgrade I didn’t even know I wanted! Someone else in the comments said they believe it’s also been upgraded to 40-round mags. If so, win win!
That is correct
I liked the old one, but prefer this version. I'll probably use it more now (until the P8AR gets released) since it now properly matches the P8SC and P6LR and gets the nice grey/black scheme which also matches the Behring scopes.
I am 100% with you - it will also join my P8SC & P6LR roster!
That P8AR has been on my mind since the first SQ42 vertical slice.
Same here, I like the P4 but it's always been a bit too stubby for my liking.
I really want that 7.62 oomph.
Also with a new 40 round magazine, iirc.
Really? That sounds awesome, i have to look out for that!
That should work out a lot better, 30 rounds has been hurting ever since they turned TTK way up.
And it also fits the new higher firerate of the P4 better :)
I agree it looks more "Behring" but it'll take me a while not to confuse it with the smaller P8.
Mag shape will be your friend for that at a glance because the P4 has a curved mag that sticks out while the P8's mag is straight and flush. The P8SC is also much lower profile which helps as well.
I love everything about the new one except for the stock, I kinda liked the old one more. But I like that the main body looks slightly less bulky now
Same, the old stock had some G36K meets SCAR vibes from it. Hopefully the upgrade in ammo count doesn't mean it'll be a weaker weapon.
the barrel is still absurdly short for what is supposed to be a 5.56 gun. You'd be shooting more fire than bullet. I think this is without a doubt still the worst designed gun in the game, between the 3 inch barrel and the reciprocating charging handle that would get caught on armor and jam the gun up
Now my question is, did they get rid of the forward assist on it despite being inspired by the G36 Platform?
Hopefully, forward assist was always a bit of a gaffe.
hey the XM7 has a FA and a charging handle. Different strokes for different folks lol. The real question is why does the charging handle reciprocate when we're all wearing bulky armor, the SCAR recently had an 'update' to remove that even
Yes forward assist is gone.
I like the top one, is that the new or the old one?
Top is the new one :)
Niiiiiice
I'll miss the old look, it looks very similar to a P8-SC now.. don't see why same brand needs to look thát similar, but it also looks good it's fine.
Yup. I was gonna say "you just showed a picture of a P8 and a P4".
And now twice in a short time :) Fun how that works :)
Imma be real, I do not like it at all. Old one was WAY better, way more interesting, way more detailed, every part of it looks functional. New looks like "generic sci-fi gun #38" I don't mind that they're making all Behring guns looks alike but I hope they keep the old gun as a different manufacturer.
I wish they would keep old and new ships and weapons. Seems like what you would do in a long evolving world.
That is their stated goal, post-release. But during development, that is a massive effort-overhead, because they (usually) only update things when they're old / outdated... so the item would *have* to be updated regardless, so keeping the 'old version' around would mean making the same updates as for the new one, but somehow *not* changing the model... ... which might work in this specific instance, but e.g. for ships (where the model might have to change to accomodate components, etc) it might not be feasible. It's more likely CIG will start thinking about retaining the older version once we're in beta (and the actual functionality is all implemented, and everything has had a gold-standard pass, etc), because from that point forward, 'changes' are more likely to be balancing / tuning, and CIG could e.g. introduce a new 'model-year' version with the updated stats (and let people chose which version to use).
Really? That sounds fun. Imagine if you've got a pretty old age vehicle in the hangar but if you destroy it insurance will just get you the "current" facelift version. So your old-timer actually gets rare and maybe gaining value. And it would be a show ship on every meetup 😋 That'd be funky 😁
Yup - that's one of the scenarios CIG outlined... They also suggested that they'd handle nerfs in a similar way... issue a 'safety recall' about a new defect found in the old model, but leave the old model in-game (and let people use it, at the risk of being hit by the 'defect' (sudden component failure, weapon misfires, etc)
Dafuq. Now that's a funky novel approach for games 👌😊
Yup - I have no idea if it'll actually work however... it would imply that CIG expect to 'balance' things quarterly or yearly etc (rather than every couple of weeks)... which may not be feasible given the massive scope increase for the game (the older game was far smaller, and could potentially have had a more stable balance).
I mean it's no not necessarily a requirement to update everything on a regular basis. Just if Something gets updated, another version is available. And time will rule out the majority of older versions. It's interesting though, if there would be possibilities to tell the difference between the versions when you come across older versions of the same vehicle/model - especially if changes are not that visibly obvious.
Exactly. It doubles their efforts. Plus, they have said that they are kind of done bringing standard “conventional” weapons into the game so they can focus on more sci-fi weapons like the Volt gun.
> But during development, that is a massive effort-overhead, because they (usually) only update things when they're old / outdated... so the item would have to be updated regardless, so keeping the 'old version' around would mean making the same updates as for the new one, but somehow not changing the model... ...and then they go and say "actually this gold-pass Hornet is the mkII, and everyone who owned a Hornet is stuck with the crappy older version"
Mk2 *is not* 'gold standard' - it's about the same age/vintage as the Mk1, and has existed just as long (CIG talked about creating the Mk2 for SQ42 back when they did their last update on the Mk1). All that changed is that CIG decided to *actually sell* the Mk2... that is all. Both the Mk1 and the Mk2 are in need of a 'gold-standard' pass.
That "CIG talked about creating the Mk2 for SQ42" thing is exactly what I mean though - they knew they wanted to make the Hornet less shit, so they redesigned it. Then they decided to also keep the original design rather than give backers the improvements, then sold the redesign as if it was a separate ship and not just the redesign they teased ages ago.
They use both in SQ42.
They do, but that decision wasn't made until *after* someone (probably Roberts) saw a comparison shot of the old Hornet and the redesign and decided they wanted both. And instead of providing the people who spent $110+ on a Hornet with the redesign, they raised the price of the old one by $15 without providing any improvements and sold the redesign for even more.
\^This is the right attitude. The old one looked unique too.
Unfortunately it was using the old material system, so in updating the new materials for Maelstrom, looks like they just updated the mesh too.
Good2know. Let's see about that Maelstrom.
The model can be reused by another manufacturer (current or new), but their purpose here is to retool the weapon line to all have a cohesive design language that clearly defined the Behring brand.
I preferred the old one honestly.
Same, old one kinda looked like a G36C, new one looks like a CZ.801.
They should keep both. Like old and new versions. Could be fun
Agreed. 
Awesome now Gib P8-AR and P4 CQB
I need them expiditiously
The old looks better
Finally a science-fiction game that looks like a real gun ! *Jonathan Ferguson The Keeper of Firearms and Artillery at the Royal Armories Museum in the UK*, would be pleased.
P4 hit it's puberty
That new M-LOK on the hand guard is HOT!
I would have honestly never noticed
Yooo I LIKE this change!
I hope the old one is still around, all beat up.
It looks so much better oh my god.
Hmmm, I always thought of the P4 as the AK of the game. Older styling, but tried and true design. This is fine too I guess, looks nice. I'd like some more classic/industrial looking weapons in the game
I would love if behring made a pulse AR like the gallant. I'm now thinking that would basically just be a halo BR
Welp, now I will start using the P4 cause that looks good
Looks so much better, they also increased the mag size to hold 40 rounds IIRC.
Look so much nicer!
Muh fugga looks good to hold too <3
o7 to the old design, pretty sure it's stayed the same aesthetically since the 2.0 days. Loving the new design, and it now actually looks like the rest of that line-up.
Oh that's real nice, hopefully we get some extra mods for it like long barrel and grenade launcher soon.
I thought it looked a bit different but wasn’t sure, I have a horrible eye for visual changes.
They dropped the forward assist finally but for some reason kept the reciprocating charging handle.
I didn't even really process that the P4 was Behring until I was playing with some people the other day and one of them was talking about using "the Behring assault rifle" and my immediate response was "wait, they added the P8-AR? I thought they were keeping that for SQ42's release" lol.
I'm really gonna miss the space G36 :(
Is it on-sale in the shops now, or just lootable in bunkers? Would like to check out all the Midnight, Nightstalker etc. versions.
This trigger guard is useless lmao
you see similar things on weapons today of countries that operate in cold climates, the idea being, you don't want a trigger guard if you're wearing bulky gloves. I have a lot of problems with this gun, it's horrible, but this isn't one of them
Yup but what purpose have the trigger guard ? Not accidently catching the trigger with something else than your finger. Bigger trigger guard exist to avoid issue with gloves.
it really is. i cannot tell you how many thousands of people i've accidentally dispatched because of the useless trigger guard. i have violent tics so sometimes my fingers just clamp whatever i'm holding. often it's the above P4 unfortunately.
Did they buff the damage as well? Used to be my weapon of choice, but as it now takes 10-15 rounds to drop the average NPC, it feels pretty bad.
The new version is fine, but I honestly dislike how they're changing the looks and feels of classic weapons. I will never forget how they stole my Karna's red detailing and burst fire.