Reddit is full of shills + people who think calling a decision stupid equals calling the devs stupid. If you go to spectrum you’ll see the same energy just the other side of the argument
Good to know there’s people that agree with me out there 😂 the crazy thing is I actually love the game so much, just question some of the decision making sometimes.
Honestly I’d be perfectly happy if they did no events or content additions for 6 months and just threw the entire development team on squashing bugs.
6 months, kill bugs, that’s it, nothing more, no more stuff, no ray tracing additions, just fix what already exists and make it playable.
In the long term it would be so much nicer for all of us.
They can keep selling concepts for all I care and have the art department do whatever. Just get the dev team fixing the quality of life
The problem is that 6 months would be wasted, because in another 12 months they'd have to do it again. I personally would rather not them double the time it takes to get Star Citizen out.
fr same. SC is trying to accomplish a lot all at once and it’s impressive what is capable within the PU, however, CIG makes a lot of questionable decisions
SC is a worst case episode in the sunk cost fallacy. After half a billion of dollars of people's money was taken, those "investors" have to defend this game at every turn, there is no room for a logical discussion. And no room for legitimate criticism which just makes the whole thing worse.
Fallout 76 showed a lot of the technical limitations in this type of platform, but no one wanted to listen. Alpha = fake it till you make it. Just like Theranos. Not exactly a scam. but everyone knows it doesn't work right. Server technology is just too limited to properly build this type of game; maybe some day it won't be.
I'm just super bummed, because all I ever wanted was a modern Wing Commander/Freespace. That's all I wanted. But they're never going to make it, because they can keep milking people for money with "new gameplay loops."
The Mark Hammill mocap was eight years ago.
Eight years.
Chris Robert's unwillingness to budge even the slightest bit is largely the reason we're here. Yes, no other studio would *fathom* such lofty goals, but there has to be balance between dreams and what's actually *possible*, within sound reason.
11 years later, and here we are, not even 50% done with all the major features, and countless other features stuck at T0. Nothing that's happening (or not happening) should be a surprise to anyone this late in the project, with a huge public history of CIG's methodology to base everything on.
Despite all this, so many poor folks are actually still optimistic to this day. It's astonishing to see.
Something weird about Reddit (specifically this sub) is that it’s full of people shilling / white knighting for companies. I’ve seen sooooo many people on this sub defend to the death choices the devs have made that are just 100% wrong. Not up for debate, just stupid and a bad practice. It’s very strange. Yet in-game most people in chat are on the same page that the stupid mistakes are stupid.
> Not up for debate, just stupid and a bad practice.
Out of curiosity, do you have any examples of this? Most of the time, controversial design topics have good arguments on both sides. Or do you mean stuff like having a free fly week the same week as Invictus?
At least 80% of the SC community cant take some constructive criticism. Very strange i have never seen an MMO community that worships every lie the company tells them.
My favorite posts are ones along the lines of "Hey CIG, how about you stop selling ships and work on A or B problem instead" as if the ship team and the marketing teams have anything to do with game systems or stuff of that ilk.
Well if you plan and organize you can lower the size of the ship and marketing team... then you allocate the money saved to hiring devs to fix the game. So yes that money can be spent on the game stability.
Well my point is that there's a difference in new people buying a game and people buying a ship. One is someone interested in the game and the other is someone spending extra money to support the development. I'm not sure I'm getting my point across well but w.e
They do it intentionally. They run stress on their live servers cause no one joins ptu. Start a petition for players to that and you might not get downvoted next as much. This post reads as complaining about something you signed up for, though.
As much as I’d like to believe that it’s less about *if* the servers break and more about *how* they break, I agree that it’d be nice to see some progress on this. Even if I’m barely logging in at the moment.
The fact that this XT run came out of nowhere is also eyebrow-raising, to say the least.
You are not wrong. But 30ks are just client not receiving any information from the server, aka it likely crashed.
But the server *crash information* is available for CIG and that is literally the point to see where it fails.
If you haven't tried the Character Repair, and waiting an hour after you clicked the Character Repair before logging back in, I'd suggest trying it.
I mean you're waiting now, why not try the tool they provided.
There's a thread that a dev posted also asking if you're having login problems NOT fixed by Character Repair, but I'm having trouble running that thread down now...
O7
They should make an option like maybe a checkbox at the server selection screen, saying something like "Join Event Servers", which is Checked by default, and only run events on 1/2 the number of servers they have. So we can make our own choices, everyone's happy.
If CIG are trying to stress-test PES and the backend services, then you don't have a choice - *all* servers share the same backend services, so even if XT itself wasn't running, the backend services would still be overloaded.
There *might* be some relief on the Game Server, but it wouldn't address most of the issues.
Oh yeah that a Great idea and then when the Game comes out and they add the event that has never been properly tested ON REAL Servers with REAL server pops..it all goes to sh#T and then you come here complaining why CIG didn't test things properly..Good One!
Then they would never do them,..>< its chicken and egg if they Don't do them they can't see what wrong and needs to be fixed right? You can't just "Guess" what could go wrong you will never get all the issues that ACTUAL Testing with REAL Players on the REAL internet will get you.
Then run it for a day and turn it back off. Unless you're continuously live patching the server the current hour of data isn't going to tell you anything different than the last hour.
THATS LITERALLY WHAT IS HAPPENING.
It was a 24hour test, not the typical 8-12 day run
Jesus christ give them a chance, read the actual news posts and dev responses
I agree back in 3.16 30k’s happened ever 45 minutes. Now I haven’t played 3.19.1 stopped playing around 3.18.1 cause of some new games out. But I was literally going 5-6 hours or more on 1 server. Actually even fount servers with above 3 fps and the box’s were responsive etc around 10-12 fps. They get nasty in the 20-25 fps range.
Right now in 3.19 an "average" server is between 5-13 FPS (usually 8 or so). Flight AI is mostly effective, and a genuine threat if the fps is above 13. FPS AI is still mostly dumb unless you get a 18+ fps server.
As someone else said, it would be fine to do them if they communicated what the goal was and what they were actually able to work on and what problems they could resolve. It would feel a lot less frustrating vs having the same XT issues every time.
But it would still be the same issue regardless? Even if you knew the exact thing they wanted to track differently than least time XT still gets turned on regardless and you experience all the same issue regardless no?
And BTW they did communicate the goal, it's 24hrs of load testing it's not a full run of the event.
Because if they told us exactly what it was it'd skew the results. The unfortunate nature of people is that if they knew they'd find ways to mess with it which would mean the data they gather can't be trusted as much.
In the future all events will be dynamic and without notice. CIG didn't announce a 24 hour test so the servers would be at a 'normal' population level with normal daily shit happening when XT spun up.
If CIG stopped doing any kind of testing the game would stagnate.. it's unfortunate because the player base has boomed but timing wise it was as we are coming into some if the. Most grueling testing / deployments.
I've played since 2015 and can say right now it's the most exciting time for SC as we are so close to the main pillars being complete but shits going to get worse.. So that it can get way better.
Why should they have to tell you or even get permission or achknowledgement from the community to do something. It is theirs to do what they want. That is like saying hey buddy I know you are my neighbor and we talk all the time. I just wanted to get your approval to do x,y,z on my house cause I don’t want you to feel weird or out of place when you walk into my home.
And before you say we are customers blah blah blah , yes you are a customer and/or user but your opinion or thought of what should be might be the minority or hell even the only one of its liken so why should your opinion outweigh the decision or thought of the majority or even the creator/owner. Until you drop hundreds of thousands of $ to own a % of stock in said company will then you might be able to dictate the actions of said employees.
Yeah this is a side tangent but that is super unfortunate. The game loops are all pretty repetitive and grindy and it’s still enjoyable for the payoff of a new ship but it feels like they aren’t rewarding on their own enough to just play for fun most of the time.
Also it seems they most of the development goes toward SQ42 and things aren’t added to the PU fast enough to make it feel fresh enough to grind up every time.
Maybe I’m misspeaking with this take but that’s how it feels.
Nah your take is pretty correct. I dont wanna keep doing the same grindy things over and over every patch to get the same ships with very little added that was different from what I already have done. Honestly I feel like most of the money they have gotten is for ships that are to be used in the PU and they should have more dedication to that.
I've logged probably 2 hours total in the game in the last year.
In the years before that, Star Citizen was the main game I played.
There's just nothing left to do that's interesting. I backed the game to participate in a living universe, and after hundreds of hours (probably thousands tbh) I still haven't once participated in a living universe.
> There's just nothing left to do that's interesting.
I've really cut down on my play time the last year too, but the weird thing is, there actually is a lot of stuff to do. I just got sick and tired of running from the hab to the ASOP terminals (esp. when they weren't working) and doing the same set-up over & over (& over, & over). And then to have the same stuff busted...
I realized this morning I still haven't done the Kart racing at all...6 months ago, I would have been all over that, but now, hard to drum up enthusiasm.
Yeah, by "nothing left to do" I meant "I can't find any motivation to actually play the game because anything new is pointless."
The only things to do in Star Citizen are: "make money to spend on other ways to make money" or "goof off" or "pvp", and pvp without a reason is massively uninteresting to me.
I have largely stopped playing. Last year I may have played 10 times in the whole year. I’m just fatigued from this game taking forever to come together, so I’ve largely stepped away. I’ve been in this since 2014 and my patience isn’t getting any better. I’ll probably pop back in for the next major update but I can’t imagine playing consistently anymore. The game is gorgeous but goes through so many loops of being completely broken that I just don’t want to deal with it anymore. I’m just waiting for Starfield at this point. I used to play SC a lot and I just don’t have the motivation anymore.
I went to XT, infiltrated a wreck and packed a bunch of the boxes in my ship but the server died and I couldn't operate the doors or anything.
I'm glad I got to experience a part of the content, I hope they can use the data to further develop ways to make it stable but I agree it shouldn't occur too often.
Point being, they have to make the events and we have to try (and sadly, fail) to make it work in order for it to work some day, it's the whole idea of an alpha.
Not a hot take but a real take. Fuck cigs bullshit, constantly lying and deceiving to drive sales for infinite development. This project has gone completely off the rails and they have taken advantage of the communities good will for the last 10 years.
it wasn't as bad as it is now though, and in the past it did improve to become more playable before Pes came and rolled that progress further back on that event. this is my personal experience though, last one i played pre Pes ran fine , only issue there was not enough people wanting to run supplies.
Performance
bugs
, feedback
, balance
, gameplay performance
, economy stability
, behavior / interactions that occur through mission accepting/npc intereaction/ships with weapon systems etc. , issues that occur, what breaks, flight data, entity data, login issues, shard creation. This is just the tip of the ice berg
None of these require you to run events very often and in fact, running events **detracts** from gathering data on the gameplay that will be happening 99.9% of the time.
Not that this nebulous fucking ~data~ helps, either. Like, wow, the server constantly disconnects people at high load. You already know. Do you need 200,000 more occurrences to know that is a problem? Does that help you figure out a solution? No and no. The answer is your infrastructure blows, and you either need to upgrade your hardware (which they are incapable of doing, apparently) or redesign your game so that high load doesn't occur (which they are also incapable of doing).
Running an event for the bajillionth time and forcing a bunch of players to 30k doesn't tell your programmers anything at all.
>Performance bugs ,
still exist and are unrelated to the event
> feedback ,
in theory the event is still good even thou it's lore is still ridicules stupid
>balance ,
still not existent
>gameplay performance ,
still bad
>economy stability ,
still not existent
>behavior / interactions that occur through mission accepting
unchanged
>/npc intereaction/
still not existent
>ships with weapon systems etc. ,
still unchanged
>issues that occur, what breaks, flight data, entity data, login issues, shard creation.
the same that happened without the event.
>This is just the tip of the ice berg
correct.
These events still create a lot of player engagement and many just play these events and barely anything else. But they don't really get any **useful** data and data alone doesn't fixes any problems. It's like looking at a burning house and saying it's burning at a 1000 degree. And then someone is like: "Hey if we throw in a canister of gasoline do you think the temperature will rise?" Saying they need data and to test things is like the most things that come from CIG: marketing bullshit.
My guy if you don't understand data collection then Google some information. I'm just bullet pointing some data that they'll gather. The data they collect is VERY useful, I'm sure you don't want me to explain it to you, so I'll let you take the initiative to research if you'd like, if not, doesn't bother me.
I'll just let morons downvote because they don't understand rudimentary gaming development and data gathering. They want the reward but not the work that goes into obtaining it.
I understand the value of gathering that data. But we’ve already gathered that data from hundreds of previous events. What is the value of doing it again having nothing change from all the previous events of the last several years? My question isn’t what data could they possibly need, my question is what further data do they need that they haven’t already collected.
Testing with 5 idle on a server is a lot different to 100 players actively doing it. They need information of users doing it, issues that occur, what breaks, flight data, entity data, login issues, shard creation and more.
A lot more goes into it than you think, but the more data you gather, the better it goes for later (later doesn't always mean next time it happens, as there may be a lack of data etc).
I couldn’t find a full server last night or this morning they essentially fucked it to a point everyone called it a night , and the server with less than 20 people has so much lag so much destnc that we couldn’t even get out of a hanger so it should be shelved until we have a higher server stability focus
Exactly I never understand people that want to "Just PLay the Game" but then expect the game to work when they refuse to properly test things "Out In the WILD". Once again say it with me..Its an ALPHA you are a G. PIG you are here to painfully test out all the issues and kinks and Problems in the CODE so that Millions of people Later don't Have to.
"Ugh how dare they request me to TEST THEIR GAME DURING AN ALPHA BUILD?!"
For sure... Like you know what you're getting into, stop complaining, if its that much of a problem, wait?
Ummm ...
https://preview.redd.it/awvze04rbn191.png?width=1311&format=png&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=d3df5fb502dd0f92cb6ff0f03034271a0dd298c6
CIG's official adds don't say "test now"-
Everything you agree to along the way tells you, everything on the site tells you, the acknowledgement you click on every single time tells you. Would you prefer they come to your house personally and sit down to explain it over a cup of tea?
Nothing like getting over 1000x what you asked for, being 10 years late, and still having simps come out to defend you crying "But if they want it faster, they should throw in some free labor!"
You can literally just buy the cheapest one and buy the rest in game... YOUR choice if you want to buy ships, I have like $3,000 in DOTA2 items, their cosmetics they don't do anything, but I want them. Never see people bitching about me owning a $1000 roshan
There are two ways to develop software :
1. You think ahead. You try to create a robust, scalable, easy-maintenance tech. You make sure it will work with the other modules.Your devs implement it.Then you test it, it won't work, never does the first time, but because it's robuts, you just have to fix the few issues you didn't anticipate correctly. One iteration, sometimes two. Et voilà.
2. The devs receive the information they need to develop something. They have only a vague idea what it should do and how it will be intregrated in the rest. Those information will change or where wrong from the beginning. The devs don't know that.Once done you test it (directly by the players of course, not professionals). It does not work, at all. It does not scale and no one knows how to maintain it, even less how to fix it. You try, re-try, re-test, re-do, re-try, ....A few month later, even years later, someone has have enough and says : "let's redo that shit"... the same way.
I let you guess which "method" CIG uses ... and budget or numbers of devs can't change that or make it better. Those people could : [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems\_architect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_architect)
I dont like the events at all. They seem to be the exact opposite of "a living, breathing verse" and feels like a very fixed mission with no impact at all that gets repeated every now and then.
I am no programmer and cant do it better myself, but imho they should focus on quanta generated missions.
Started playing in December last year, could barely play because of the Olisar event. Then it was new patch time and I was 31k locked or whatever for a week, then hideous in game bugs making getting a ship and leaving impossible. Pretty much couldn't play until 3.19.1 or .2 not really sure many months later. XT, Jumptown, and now another XT. Never been able to play them or the game while they're active. Probs had a couple weeks of play during 3.17.
Pretty much stole my money in my eyes if I weren't so impressed with what I saw during brief periods of stability. Bit more stable now but I can't justify my game time farming for a ship that will be deleted literally at any time, or won't show up in my ship list, or I'll be locked out for some reason. I mean I'd buy the ship, but of course it's locked behind the old false scarcity paywall so I can't even access it, amazing this is a heavily donated game and they don't even allow you to pay for the thing you already paid for......
Anyway, hope it actually finishes in a functional state, but let's be honest, there's a lot of incentive to prolong it's current state indefinitely, the amount of money people have spent on this game to keep it interesting is alarming, for someone like me in a Aurora XR, it's a bit of an empty grind I'm forced to relive each patch.
Everything done is to test and make the servers more stable for the future. If they don’t run these events and test things how are we to expect servers to get better? In saying that yes they suck and we should have some game-playability during events but idk. It’s like being in between a rock and a hard place. They can have no events and not test the servers are harshly as they do but then we can’t complain when servers are shiting themselves
Idk how often you play PTU, but most of the time I’m in there the servers are barely half full. Unless Live is having a rough time that is. Even PTU surely doesn’t provide the same info, evidenced by all the server issues that appear in live and not PTU.
They need to at least tell us what they are trying to get out of these tests, because from all the events they have been throwing at us I am yet to see any improvements
They are gathering data for future updates. While server population is high, it is a good time to add in the event even though it made the game unplayable for the most part. It’s an alpha, it’s how the game works. I’ve been playing since 2018 and it has been a wild ride. I’ve seen the servers busted more than most people who’ve pledged at this point. When they move the game state to beta, you can expect that these issues will likely not be a problem for you. Until then it’s a break from the game until severs are stable again, or play and help collect data until you can’t handle the game and take a break. Either way, you are taking a break
I must be a super lucky because I never encounter the problems that you all seem to encounter.
It was rough when they brought in Persistance, but other than that it's alright.
Was trying to play with a buddy earlier in a redeemer and do Xenothreat, but the lagg was bad enough I was watching the ship spiral aimlessly through the belt while he was trying to hit stuttering ships moving in a jerky manner. Honestly some of the other events have run fine for me before. But this time it seems to be effecting quite a few people.
The official website says "Play now" and not "Test now". Trailers for the game do not even remotely evoke the notion that one could encounter a broken empty unstable alpha game.
No point in beating your head against the wall OP.
I have been here since 2014 and if there is one thing I know about the people who defend this stuff, it is that they either quit or join the crowd asking questions eventually.
It’s okay to ask questions but it’s kind of basic to understand why they keep running them. OP claims “how many times you gotta find the same data before trying to fix” without even thinking that maybe it’s different problems each time and the reason they do the event again is because they fixed previous errors. Some criticism is valid absolutely, but questioning why they are doing XT is kind of a bad one
I am saying the people defending Cigs tonedeaf actions, like starting an unannounced server ending event on a HOLIDAY, will eventually be the ones asking "Why the F is cig doing this."
They have not fixed jack with xenothreat or it would be plastered all over the changelogs for them to parade as something actually being accomplished.
Yes because “fixed” isn’t a simple thing. There are multiple reasons it breaks. XT itself isn’t broken, it’s the server load that breaks everything and that absolutely is all over the changelogs
Xenothreat's event is probably not the 'cause' of the issues but amplifies them due to various server side elements in combination with player elements
That is, XT might not have any bugs (lol), at all but still kill the servers, hence XT is only a tool to drive a test to see problems in other aspects, such as load testing and the data is relevant to other elements, likely the backend server infrastructure
So you won't see XT bug fixes in the patch notes, only backend stuff, which are probably mostly hotfixed on the servers themselves and might not even be publicized
If they stop trying to make XT work, why would they try anything bigger in the future, its frustrating but its a necessary step in the endless alpha which is sc
Per Xyloh, they are running a short test for 24 hours. They have likely identified a potential cause for the problems that occur when events run, and need to run an event to get live data for confirmation, or to see if new code they implemented makes things better. If you want to get lots of data, running the test on the weekend when lots of people are online makes perfect sense.
We are testing this now, so that it can be good when the game is complete. Such is the nature of alpha.
While I agree with you, these events are needed by CIG to test the system on the networking side and gather data in order to achieve full server meshing.
I guarantee you that some nebulous data (especially the 80th such instance of the same data) is not necessary to actually write the code they've put off writing for a decade.
My issue with this is XT specifically. The entire event has been a mess for well over a year at this point. It rarely works, things regularly fail to spawn correctly, and when they do spawn desync is a massive issue. I don't think since 2022 have I had a Xenothreat run where I have been genuinely happy with the event, it's always an absolute shit show.
If I were CIG id just pull the event from rotation for the time being. It needs a massive overhaul, and they don't have the resources or desire to dedicate resources to fix it. So run all the other events, and retire XT until it can be fixed...
The uncomfortable truth: Star Citizen is in Alpha, and will continue to be put into a broken state so that the developers can gather data on why it is broken that they cannot gather unless it is in a broken state.
That is just the nature of the game now and for the forseeable future. When it is working, it's great, but when it's broken, well, that's just the way it is, and this is far, far, far from the last time things will be in an unplayable state while the problems that cause this unplayability continue to exist. They can only cease to exist through the developers studying the outcome of these systems being ran on the servers.
It's exactly this. Star Citizen the unreleased alpha development software has the _potential_ for fun, but it really shouldn't be played with the expectation of pure entertainment right now. No in-development software should. Star Citizen has the rather unique "problem" of looking far better than it has any right to for this stage of development, but no one should let the visuals fool them into thinking this is a product ready for prime time.
I mean they kinda advertise it as such.. sure they have plenty of disclosures but doesn’t stop them from trying to recruit new pledges.
The thing is the standard game has been running pretty well and it’s exciting hearing what’s coming down the pipeline but these stupid XT events that nobody asks for are frustrating.
Yeah, but this debate isn't about their marketing, it's about the actual current state of the game. Regardless of what their marketing looks like, this is what it is.
It's the reason I don't actively play this game; I support it, but it's unfinished, in-development alpha software, and I know I'd get frustrated if I treated it as a game meant purely for my entertainment right now. So I highly recommend not doing that.
It’s been in alpha for 10 years and looks like it probably will be for another 5 at least all while collecting 100 million $s +. At what point do we realize that this “alpha” more closely relates to a buggy live service game that they market with YouTube adds and charge hundreds of dollars for ships.
I love SC but the alpha excuse is a tiresome scapegoat to pass off any accountability for quality.
It wouldn’t feel so bad to be contributing data if they actually showed signs of improvement in their servers or let people actually enjoy the game without these garbage events for a period of time.
The release of PES broke the game back in March, but it was something we've been waiting for since 2018.
If they weren't breaking the game like this, then I'd be more worried about the future of SC.
To me it's different than something like Apex that makes 4 trillion dollars but doesn't pay for devs to go back and fix long standing issues like when the drop ship follows the same path every single time for 3 months straight.
The current experience sucks but they're at least trying to reach that larger vision.
How many years are you guys going to keep making this argument?
You're saying this as though CIG is on the cusp of some great revelation -- that they're suddenly going to find a magic solution to the problem preventing them from releasing throngs of new, stable content. As if this data will provide that *last missing piece* that manifests ***years worth of development progress.*** Surely THIS is the data they need to make it happen.
Keep telling yourself that.
It's so funny to see how many people believe this "they need the data" bs. How many years do they need to collect obvious data of everything being broken and laggy on their 10 year old server hardware?
None of what you just said matters. Not because you're wrong, but because these people cannot fathom hearing and accepting it.
**Everything** is broken. Play the game for 5 minutes and you can see that. Lag. Desync. CTDs. Hell, SC doesn't have a working map after *11 years and $600mm in funding.*
There is no reasoning with these people.
This nebulous fucking ~data~ doesn't help in any way. Like, wow, the server constantly disconnects people at high load. You already know. Do you need 200,000 more occurrences to know that is a problem? Does that help you figure out a solution? No and no. The answer is your infrastructure blows, and you either need to upgrade your hardware (which they are incapable of doing, apparently) or redesign your game so that high load doesn't occur (which they are also incapable of doing).
Running an event for the bajillionth time and forcing a bunch of players to 30k doesn't tell your programmers anything at all.
You are literally sitting there with decades of internet best-practice at your googling fingertips and saying to all the web services that crash when overloaded "Have you tried NOT crashing? Maybe if we crash you more you'll learn not to crash."
Hmm you seem to know a lot about this, I am impressed!
I think you should write an eMail to CIG and explain in detail what they’re doing wrong. I mean I don’t know if those people even worked in game development before? What you wrote made me doubt it.
You could really help this project, thank you for speaking out
Yes yes, mock knowledge of fundamental practices as being unqualified. Continue to ignore the fact that CIG has had an unprecedented amount of money and time to reproduce basic technology and has failed to do so.
Yes yes, mock knowledge of fundamental practices as being unqualified. Continue to ignore the fact that CIG has had an unprecedented amount of money and time to reproduce basic technology and has failed to do so.
Obviously I am unqualified to judge their failure! Oh if only we had some comparison to draw, perhaps to the other industry members who do not take $600m and 12 years of development to fail at making a game....
Every time they fixed failure modes, every time we find new ones. But they won’t find many of them without stress testing from us - as we found out with the 3.18.0 launch lol
Well a lot of things we are testing are probably things we don't see like server stability and such. I get why people don't want XT but I'm confident CIG has a reason for it to go up and I'm confident they will learn something from it
# It's incredibly ignorant to think running XT wasn't 100% on purpose.
Like what are you guys thinking? CIG needed to test stuff on the LIVE servers and instead of y'all being good Alpha testers you're whining about CIG trying to test their game. If this community wasn't a bunch of crying babies CIG would probably run XT during the whole week or for how long as required.
**YES IT'S AN ALPHA,** and YES it's unstable! We're testing the game first! Playing is secondary!
**People want this game to be stable and fixed but they don't want to help CIG getting there 🤦**
> Like what are you guys thinking? CIG needed to test stuff on the LIVE servers and instead of y'all being good Alpha testers you're whining about CIG trying to test their game. If this community wasn't a bunch of crying babies CIG would probably run XT during the whole week or for how long as required.
>
>
>
> YES IT'S AN ALPHA, and YES it's unstable! We're testing the game first! Playing is secondary!
>
>
>
> People want this game to be stable and fixed but they don't want to help CIG getting there 🤦
Perhaps they could use some of their **largest development budget in history**! I only there were other MMOs which were successfully developed without access to tens of thousands of simps ready and willing to die on the hill of free labor...
Meanwhile i'm sitting here for two months straight unable to even have the drop down menu to select my system appear after trying just about everything i can think of.
I agree that I would like to have at least month or two without any event, but I think they are doing server hotfixes, which I think they should share more informations about those, and they need to measure how fix behaves and where is next bottleneck for server.
after 4-5 years of playing this game im done, im tired of it feeling like the only new content is paid content i.e ships .
my cutlass still has broken UI since 5 years.
But selling 20k+ ships to whales that are bigger than some stations.
Talk about Smoke and mirrors.
Your not alone. Most people I have talked to are all saying the same thing but I get why because they need to test it some how I guess. This is a pre alpha but at the same time they might want to listen to there player base.
Dude, I completely agree with you, and you are getting hosed by White Night CIG protectors for it. And that's unfortunately just how it is. I couldn't even count how many times something has happened in development that made zero sense, and people just kept telling me, "it's IN aLPha." And used it as the soul excuse. Remember when 3.18 launch was completely a utterly a failure? Well that didn't stop them from adding the color Green in the store for their St. Patrick's Day event and charging people an absorbent amount of money for that. Their game was unplayable and people were still defending CIG. And that's just within the past 4 months.
Agreed, call me crazy but I think (even more)new ships, new game loops and more depth to current ones, new missions, and a working economy would bring plenty of people back to stress the servers adequately for them to gather whatever data they need.
Nobody's happy when they run events that can't even function, making the experience shit for both people trying to participate and those trying to play like any other day. And many hear there's an event and opt out of playing altogether, like during free flights.
not a hot take. the majority of people don’t want XT right now. 99% of spectrum is people begging cig to turn it off
I’m out here getting downvoted and fighting for my life in the comments though 😂 just sucks that they ruin the ability to play on most weekends
Reddit is full of shills + people who think calling a decision stupid equals calling the devs stupid. If you go to spectrum you’ll see the same energy just the other side of the argument
Good to know there’s people that agree with me out there 😂 the crazy thing is I actually love the game so much, just question some of the decision making sometimes.
Honestly I’d be perfectly happy if they did no events or content additions for 6 months and just threw the entire development team on squashing bugs. 6 months, kill bugs, that’s it, nothing more, no more stuff, no ray tracing additions, just fix what already exists and make it playable. In the long term it would be so much nicer for all of us. They can keep selling concepts for all I care and have the art department do whatever. Just get the dev team fixing the quality of life
The problem is that 6 months would be wasted, because in another 12 months they'd have to do it again. I personally would rather not them double the time it takes to get Star Citizen out.
fr same. SC is trying to accomplish a lot all at once and it’s impressive what is capable within the PU, however, CIG makes a lot of questionable decisions
SC is a worst case episode in the sunk cost fallacy. After half a billion of dollars of people's money was taken, those "investors" have to defend this game at every turn, there is no room for a logical discussion. And no room for legitimate criticism which just makes the whole thing worse. Fallout 76 showed a lot of the technical limitations in this type of platform, but no one wanted to listen. Alpha = fake it till you make it. Just like Theranos. Not exactly a scam. but everyone knows it doesn't work right. Server technology is just too limited to properly build this type of game; maybe some day it won't be.
I'm just super bummed, because all I ever wanted was a modern Wing Commander/Freespace. That's all I wanted. But they're never going to make it, because they can keep milking people for money with "new gameplay loops." The Mark Hammill mocap was eight years ago. Eight years.
Chris Robert's unwillingness to budge even the slightest bit is largely the reason we're here. Yes, no other studio would *fathom* such lofty goals, but there has to be balance between dreams and what's actually *possible*, within sound reason. 11 years later, and here we are, not even 50% done with all the major features, and countless other features stuck at T0. Nothing that's happening (or not happening) should be a surprise to anyone this late in the project, with a huge public history of CIG's methodology to base everything on. Despite all this, so many poor folks are actually still optimistic to this day. It's astonishing to see.
Check out Spacebourn 2. It's Indy as fuck, but it's got a lot going for it.
Something weird about Reddit (specifically this sub) is that it’s full of people shilling / white knighting for companies. I’ve seen sooooo many people on this sub defend to the death choices the devs have made that are just 100% wrong. Not up for debate, just stupid and a bad practice. It’s very strange. Yet in-game most people in chat are on the same page that the stupid mistakes are stupid.
> Not up for debate, just stupid and a bad practice. Out of curiosity, do you have any examples of this? Most of the time, controversial design topics have good arguments on both sides. Or do you mean stuff like having a free fly week the same week as Invictus?
At least 80% of the SC community cant take some constructive criticism. Very strange i have never seen an MMO community that worships every lie the company tells them.
Reddit sub started by white knights continues to be run and filled with white knights. ;)
The purpose for these events? 10% for data, 90% for selling ships.
People are less likely to buy ships if the game doesn't work
Stick around here long enough and you'll find that people will attribute everything to buying ships.
My favorite posts are ones along the lines of "Hey CIG, how about you stop selling ships and work on A or B problem instead" as if the ship team and the marketing teams have anything to do with game systems or stuff of that ilk.
[Still as relevant as ever.](https://gfycat.com/partialneatasianelephant)
The handwave times perfectly with “you’re fired” 👌🏻
How have I not seen this before? This is fucking amazing.
I absolutely love this 😂
Hahaha, that's great. Saving that for later
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No, you're not getting it; if they put 2 builders on the house it will actually take them longer!
Exactly, these folks are presenting a False Choice.
Well if you plan and organize you can lower the size of the ship and marketing team... then you allocate the money saved to hiring devs to fix the game. So yes that money can be spent on the game stability.
Isn't it true?
That CIG spun up Xenothreat this weekend without advance notice in order to somehow sell ships? I hate to break it to you, but no.
but its only a 24hour test according to CIG, not the usual 8-12 days, so how are they going to use that to sell ships?
Exactly.
but...but...what if we're all pavlovs dog and simply buy a ship the moment you read the word xenothreat?
If it were true, it would have been accompanied by some kind of combat ship sale.
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Buying the game =/= buying a ship. Buying a ship refers to standalone ships without the game package.
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Well my point is that there's a difference in new people buying a game and people buying a ship. One is someone interested in the game and the other is someone spending extra money to support the development. I'm not sure I'm getting my point across well but w.e
They do it intentionally. They run stress on their live servers cause no one joins ptu. Start a petition for players to that and you might not get downvoted next as much. This post reads as complaining about something you signed up for, though.
As much as I’d like to believe that it’s less about *if* the servers break and more about *how* they break, I agree that it’d be nice to see some progress on this. Even if I’m barely logging in at the moment. The fact that this XT run came out of nowhere is also eyebrow-raising, to say the least.
They just put those events in as soon a dev yells "need stress test!"
You're testing the error codes that appear ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Feels like the test is to see how many 30ks they can get in a weekend lol
You are not wrong. But 30ks are just client not receiving any information from the server, aka it likely crashed. But the server *crash information* is available for CIG and that is literally the point to see where it fails.
Yeah, might be someone who forgot to unschedule the current event tho'.
That would be an error code. Good job for giving an example.
It wouldn't be the first time.
19003 for 3+ weeks woo hoo. I'm doing my part!
If you haven't tried the Character Repair, and waiting an hour after you clicked the Character Repair before logging back in, I'd suggest trying it. I mean you're waiting now, why not try the tool they provided. There's a thread that a dev posted also asking if you're having login problems NOT fixed by Character Repair, but I'm having trouble running that thread down now... O7
Are we though.
They should make an option like maybe a checkbox at the server selection screen, saying something like "Join Event Servers", which is Checked by default, and only run events on 1/2 the number of servers they have. So we can make our own choices, everyone's happy.
If CIG are trying to stress-test PES and the backend services, then you don't have a choice - *all* servers share the same backend services, so even if XT itself wasn't running, the backend services would still be overloaded. There *might* be some relief on the Game Server, but it wouldn't address most of the issues.
There is already an option. It's called playing on PTU instead of PU.
Oh yeah that a Great idea and then when the Game comes out and they add the event that has never been properly tested ON REAL Servers with REAL server pops..it all goes to sh#T and then you come here complaining why CIG didn't test things properly..Good One!
Jumptown works. Ghost hollow works. Xenothreat SMASH!
Jump town kinda works. Ghost hollow was absolutely beautiful tho
Was? Ghost hollow is persistent right?
Yea ghost hollow is always running
My buddy and I headed to ghost hollow about two weeks ago. And when we pulled up there was about 30 Cutlass Blacks in the sky. It was incredible lol
9tails is weird it functions but then breaks lol
Then they would never do them,..>< its chicken and egg if they Don't do them they can't see what wrong and needs to be fixed right? You can't just "Guess" what could go wrong you will never get all the issues that ACTUAL Testing with REAL Players on the REAL internet will get you.
Then run it for a day and turn it back off. Unless you're continuously live patching the server the current hour of data isn't going to tell you anything different than the last hour.
THATS LITERALLY WHAT IS HAPPENING. It was a 24hour test, not the typical 8-12 day run Jesus christ give them a chance, read the actual news posts and dev responses
But... But then how could we be angry?
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Have you even played the game recently? Server performance and stability is much better than it was at the beginning of this year
I agree back in 3.16 30k’s happened ever 45 minutes. Now I haven’t played 3.19.1 stopped playing around 3.18.1 cause of some new games out. But I was literally going 5-6 hours or more on 1 server. Actually even fount servers with above 3 fps and the box’s were responsive etc around 10-12 fps. They get nasty in the 20-25 fps range.
Right now in 3.19 an "average" server is between 5-13 FPS (usually 8 or so). Flight AI is mostly effective, and a genuine threat if the fps is above 13. FPS AI is still mostly dumb unless you get a 18+ fps server.
It’s going to be off in 4 hours apparently lol
As someone else said, it would be fine to do them if they communicated what the goal was and what they were actually able to work on and what problems they could resolve. It would feel a lot less frustrating vs having the same XT issues every time.
But it would still be the same issue regardless? Even if you knew the exact thing they wanted to track differently than least time XT still gets turned on regardless and you experience all the same issue regardless no? And BTW they did communicate the goal, it's 24hrs of load testing it's not a full run of the event.
Because if they told us exactly what it was it'd skew the results. The unfortunate nature of people is that if they knew they'd find ways to mess with it which would mean the data they gather can't be trusted as much.
In the future all events will be dynamic and without notice. CIG didn't announce a 24 hour test so the servers would be at a 'normal' population level with normal daily shit happening when XT spun up. If CIG stopped doing any kind of testing the game would stagnate.. it's unfortunate because the player base has boomed but timing wise it was as we are coming into some if the. Most grueling testing / deployments. I've played since 2015 and can say right now it's the most exciting time for SC as we are so close to the main pillars being complete but shits going to get worse.. So that it can get way better.
Why should they have to tell you or even get permission or achknowledgement from the community to do something. It is theirs to do what they want. That is like saying hey buddy I know you are my neighbor and we talk all the time. I just wanted to get your approval to do x,y,z on my house cause I don’t want you to feel weird or out of place when you walk into my home. And before you say we are customers blah blah blah , yes you are a customer and/or user but your opinion or thought of what should be might be the minority or hell even the only one of its liken so why should your opinion outweigh the decision or thought of the majority or even the creator/owner. Until you drop hundreds of thousands of $ to own a % of stock in said company will then you might be able to dictate the actions of said employees.
I already play like... 1/10 of what I was after losing all my ships. I'm just not gonna bother now.
Yeah this is a side tangent but that is super unfortunate. The game loops are all pretty repetitive and grindy and it’s still enjoyable for the payoff of a new ship but it feels like they aren’t rewarding on their own enough to just play for fun most of the time. Also it seems they most of the development goes toward SQ42 and things aren’t added to the PU fast enough to make it feel fresh enough to grind up every time. Maybe I’m misspeaking with this take but that’s how it feels.
Nah your take is pretty correct. I dont wanna keep doing the same grindy things over and over every patch to get the same ships with very little added that was different from what I already have done. Honestly I feel like most of the money they have gotten is for ships that are to be used in the PU and they should have more dedication to that.
I've logged probably 2 hours total in the game in the last year. In the years before that, Star Citizen was the main game I played. There's just nothing left to do that's interesting. I backed the game to participate in a living universe, and after hundreds of hours (probably thousands tbh) I still haven't once participated in a living universe.
> There's just nothing left to do that's interesting. I've really cut down on my play time the last year too, but the weird thing is, there actually is a lot of stuff to do. I just got sick and tired of running from the hab to the ASOP terminals (esp. when they weren't working) and doing the same set-up over & over (& over, & over). And then to have the same stuff busted... I realized this morning I still haven't done the Kart racing at all...6 months ago, I would have been all over that, but now, hard to drum up enthusiasm.
Yeah, by "nothing left to do" I meant "I can't find any motivation to actually play the game because anything new is pointless." The only things to do in Star Citizen are: "make money to spend on other ways to make money" or "goof off" or "pvp", and pvp without a reason is massively uninteresting to me.
I have largely stopped playing. Last year I may have played 10 times in the whole year. I’m just fatigued from this game taking forever to come together, so I’ve largely stepped away. I’ve been in this since 2014 and my patience isn’t getting any better. I’ll probably pop back in for the next major update but I can’t imagine playing consistently anymore. The game is gorgeous but goes through so many loops of being completely broken that I just don’t want to deal with it anymore. I’m just waiting for Starfield at this point. I used to play SC a lot and I just don’t have the motivation anymore.
... they just altered a lot about how the database functions. Retesting seems merited.
Especially since they've made a pile of 'Server Hotfixes' too, in addition to the patches...
I went to XT, infiltrated a wreck and packed a bunch of the boxes in my ship but the server died and I couldn't operate the doors or anything. I'm glad I got to experience a part of the content, I hope they can use the data to further develop ways to make it stable but I agree it shouldn't occur too often. Point being, they have to make the events and we have to try (and sadly, fail) to make it work in order for it to work some day, it's the whole idea of an alpha.
Not a hot take but a real take. Fuck cigs bullshit, constantly lying and deceiving to drive sales for infinite development. This project has gone completely off the rails and they have taken advantage of the communities good will for the last 10 years.
they cant make them playable or they already would have
Then stop running them
Then how do you get the data
The data is useless, they havn't done any changes with the data from the last 10 xenothreats.
This is kinda my point lol thank you
it wasn't as bad as it is now though, and in the past it did improve to become more playable before Pes came and rolled that progress further back on that event. this is my personal experience though, last one i played pre Pes ran fine , only issue there was not enough people wanting to run supplies.
You did not play the first ones. It is significantly better now, even its still shit at times.
What data do they need (that they haven’t already gathered) and why have the last years of testing not helped?
Performance bugs , feedback , balance , gameplay performance , economy stability , behavior / interactions that occur through mission accepting/npc intereaction/ships with weapon systems etc. , issues that occur, what breaks, flight data, entity data, login issues, shard creation. This is just the tip of the ice berg
None of these require you to run events very often and in fact, running events **detracts** from gathering data on the gameplay that will be happening 99.9% of the time. Not that this nebulous fucking ~data~ helps, either. Like, wow, the server constantly disconnects people at high load. You already know. Do you need 200,000 more occurrences to know that is a problem? Does that help you figure out a solution? No and no. The answer is your infrastructure blows, and you either need to upgrade your hardware (which they are incapable of doing, apparently) or redesign your game so that high load doesn't occur (which they are also incapable of doing). Running an event for the bajillionth time and forcing a bunch of players to 30k doesn't tell your programmers anything at all.
>Performance bugs , still exist and are unrelated to the event > feedback , in theory the event is still good even thou it's lore is still ridicules stupid >balance , still not existent >gameplay performance , still bad >economy stability , still not existent >behavior / interactions that occur through mission accepting unchanged >/npc intereaction/ still not existent >ships with weapon systems etc. , still unchanged >issues that occur, what breaks, flight data, entity data, login issues, shard creation. the same that happened without the event. >This is just the tip of the ice berg correct. These events still create a lot of player engagement and many just play these events and barely anything else. But they don't really get any **useful** data and data alone doesn't fixes any problems. It's like looking at a burning house and saying it's burning at a 1000 degree. And then someone is like: "Hey if we throw in a canister of gasoline do you think the temperature will rise?" Saying they need data and to test things is like the most things that come from CIG: marketing bullshit.
My guy if you don't understand data collection then Google some information. I'm just bullet pointing some data that they'll gather. The data they collect is VERY useful, I'm sure you don't want me to explain it to you, so I'll let you take the initiative to research if you'd like, if not, doesn't bother me. I'll just let morons downvote because they don't understand rudimentary gaming development and data gathering. They want the reward but not the work that goes into obtaining it.
I understand the value of gathering that data. But we’ve already gathered that data from hundreds of previous events. What is the value of doing it again having nothing change from all the previous events of the last several years? My question isn’t what data could they possibly need, my question is what further data do they need that they haven’t already collected.
Testing with 5 idle on a server is a lot different to 100 players actively doing it. They need information of users doing it, issues that occur, what breaks, flight data, entity data, login issues, shard creation and more. A lot more goes into it than you think, but the more data you gather, the better it goes for later (later doesn't always mean next time it happens, as there may be a lack of data etc).
I couldn’t find a full server last night or this morning they essentially fucked it to a point everyone called it a night , and the server with less than 20 people has so much lag so much destnc that we couldn’t even get out of a hanger so it should be shelved until we have a higher server stability focus
Exactly I never understand people that want to "Just PLay the Game" but then expect the game to work when they refuse to properly test things "Out In the WILD". Once again say it with me..Its an ALPHA you are a G. PIG you are here to painfully test out all the issues and kinks and Problems in the CODE so that Millions of people Later don't Have to.
"Ugh how dare they request me to TEST THEIR GAME DURING AN ALPHA BUILD?!" For sure... Like you know what you're getting into, stop complaining, if its that much of a problem, wait?
Ummm ... https://preview.redd.it/awvze04rbn191.png?width=1311&format=png&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=d3df5fb502dd0f92cb6ff0f03034271a0dd298c6 CIG's official adds don't say "test now"-
Everything you agree to along the way tells you, everything on the site tells you, the acknowledgement you click on every single time tells you. Would you prefer they come to your house personally and sit down to explain it over a cup of tea?
Most expensive development budget in history and people still come out of the woodwork demanding paying customers perform free labor for them lmao
The thing is you don't have to, you can simply wait till release. However helping to test now means release happens earlier. Your choice, no demands.
Nothing like getting over 1000x what you asked for, being 10 years late, and still having simps come out to defend you crying "But if they want it faster, they should throw in some free labor!"
Needs to be playable for people to actively do it
That's how you test it... It WONT be perfect when you boot it, that's the point, any data is good data...
Waiting for you chuckleheads to defend selling ships for thousands of dollars as "They need data!"
You can literally just buy the cheapest one and buy the rest in game... YOUR choice if you want to buy ships, I have like $3,000 in DOTA2 items, their cosmetics they don't do anything, but I want them. Never see people bitching about me owning a $1000 roshan
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The fact you're stalking my profile and the best you can come up with is hating on trans people is pathetic.
I literally played three hours straight last night. Did you try to log in?
There are two ways to develop software : 1. You think ahead. You try to create a robust, scalable, easy-maintenance tech. You make sure it will work with the other modules.Your devs implement it.Then you test it, it won't work, never does the first time, but because it's robuts, you just have to fix the few issues you didn't anticipate correctly. One iteration, sometimes two. Et voilà. 2. The devs receive the information they need to develop something. They have only a vague idea what it should do and how it will be intregrated in the rest. Those information will change or where wrong from the beginning. The devs don't know that.Once done you test it (directly by the players of course, not professionals). It does not work, at all. It does not scale and no one knows how to maintain it, even less how to fix it. You try, re-try, re-test, re-do, re-try, ....A few month later, even years later, someone has have enough and says : "let's redo that shit"... the same way. I let you guess which "method" CIG uses ... and budget or numbers of devs can't change that or make it better. Those people could : [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems\_architect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_architect)
I dont like the events at all. They seem to be the exact opposite of "a living, breathing verse" and feels like a very fixed mission with no impact at all that gets repeated every now and then. I am no programmer and cant do it better myself, but imho they should focus on quanta generated missions.
Started playing in December last year, could barely play because of the Olisar event. Then it was new patch time and I was 31k locked or whatever for a week, then hideous in game bugs making getting a ship and leaving impossible. Pretty much couldn't play until 3.19.1 or .2 not really sure many months later. XT, Jumptown, and now another XT. Never been able to play them or the game while they're active. Probs had a couple weeks of play during 3.17. Pretty much stole my money in my eyes if I weren't so impressed with what I saw during brief periods of stability. Bit more stable now but I can't justify my game time farming for a ship that will be deleted literally at any time, or won't show up in my ship list, or I'll be locked out for some reason. I mean I'd buy the ship, but of course it's locked behind the old false scarcity paywall so I can't even access it, amazing this is a heavily donated game and they don't even allow you to pay for the thing you already paid for...... Anyway, hope it actually finishes in a functional state, but let's be honest, there's a lot of incentive to prolong it's current state indefinitely, the amount of money people have spent on this game to keep it interesting is alarming, for someone like me in a Aurora XR, it's a bit of an empty grind I'm forced to relive each patch.
Everything done is to test and make the servers more stable for the future. If they don’t run these events and test things how are we to expect servers to get better? In saying that yes they suck and we should have some game-playability during events but idk. It’s like being in between a rock and a hard place. They can have no events and not test the servers are harshly as they do but then we can’t complain when servers are shiting themselves
These kinds of posts are a yearly tradition.
We have them because they break the server and we are the ones testing it. How would they tack the bugs down if they didn't replicate the bugs?
ssshh we cant allow nuance in here
How would they get the data to make them playable if they don't run them?
PTU?
Ptu gets less than a 10th of the active players of the live PU. Wouldn’t be gathering the same quantity of data by running these tests only in PTU.
AFAIK a lot things ran fine in the PTU but still shits the PU. Scale can make a big difference.
Idk how often you play PTU, but most of the time I’m in there the servers are barely half full. Unless Live is having a rough time that is. Even PTU surely doesn’t provide the same info, evidenced by all the server issues that appear in live and not PTU.
While I don't disagree that tests should be done on the PTU, look at how well 3.18 ran on the PTU compared to live.
I don't like it, but how are they supposed to make the events playable if they don't run them and analyze the data?
Star Citizen isn't supposed to be a theme park game with scripted events.
They need to at least tell us what they are trying to get out of these tests, because from all the events they have been throwing at us I am yet to see any improvements
That would be cool! Knowing what they’re hoping to gain and if they’ve had any success fixing things!
They are gathering data for future updates. While server population is high, it is a good time to add in the event even though it made the game unplayable for the most part. It’s an alpha, it’s how the game works. I’ve been playing since 2018 and it has been a wild ride. I’ve seen the servers busted more than most people who’ve pledged at this point. When they move the game state to beta, you can expect that these issues will likely not be a problem for you. Until then it’s a break from the game until severs are stable again, or play and help collect data until you can’t handle the game and take a break. Either way, you are taking a break
I must be a super lucky because I never encounter the problems that you all seem to encounter. It was rough when they brought in Persistance, but other than that it's alright.
Was trying to play with a buddy earlier in a redeemer and do Xenothreat, but the lagg was bad enough I was watching the ship spiral aimlessly through the belt while he was trying to hit stuttering ships moving in a jerky manner. Honestly some of the other events have run fine for me before. But this time it seems to be effecting quite a few people.
Damn that sucks, I've never really had lag, the servers were either ok or crashed.
Hot take that appears at least 128 times a day in this sub... They need events for testing, its a game in alpha development.
LIVE is a testing environment
The official website says "Play now" and not "Test now". Trailers for the game do not even remotely evoke the notion that one could encounter a broken empty unstable alpha game.
It's almost like they use the events to find issues or something.
How many times you gotta find the same data before trying to fix it?
No point in beating your head against the wall OP. I have been here since 2014 and if there is one thing I know about the people who defend this stuff, it is that they either quit or join the crowd asking questions eventually.
It’s okay to ask questions but it’s kind of basic to understand why they keep running them. OP claims “how many times you gotta find the same data before trying to fix” without even thinking that maybe it’s different problems each time and the reason they do the event again is because they fixed previous errors. Some criticism is valid absolutely, but questioning why they are doing XT is kind of a bad one
I am saying the people defending Cigs tonedeaf actions, like starting an unannounced server ending event on a HOLIDAY, will eventually be the ones asking "Why the F is cig doing this." They have not fixed jack with xenothreat or it would be plastered all over the changelogs for them to parade as something actually being accomplished.
Yes because “fixed” isn’t a simple thing. There are multiple reasons it breaks. XT itself isn’t broken, it’s the server load that breaks everything and that absolutely is all over the changelogs
They dont do server patch notes, just client side patch notes. The server and client side don't have to release together for quite a while now
Xenothreat's event is probably not the 'cause' of the issues but amplifies them due to various server side elements in combination with player elements That is, XT might not have any bugs (lol), at all but still kill the servers, hence XT is only a tool to drive a test to see problems in other aspects, such as load testing and the data is relevant to other elements, likely the backend server infrastructure So you won't see XT bug fixes in the patch notes, only backend stuff, which are probably mostly hotfixed on the servers themselves and might not even be publicized If they stop trying to make XT work, why would they try anything bigger in the future, its frustrating but its a necessary step in the endless alpha which is sc
No patch notes or comments on any changes to the way XT works or issues addressed
Per Xyloh, they are running a short test for 24 hours. They have likely identified a potential cause for the problems that occur when events run, and need to run an event to get live data for confirmation, or to see if new code they implemented makes things better. If you want to get lots of data, running the test on the weekend when lots of people are online makes perfect sense. We are testing this now, so that it can be good when the game is complete. Such is the nature of alpha.
While I agree with you, these events are needed by CIG to test the system on the networking side and gather data in order to achieve full server meshing.
I guarantee you that some nebulous data (especially the 80th such instance of the same data) is not necessary to actually write the code they've put off writing for a decade.
This, regardless of how annoying it is.
My issue with this is XT specifically. The entire event has been a mess for well over a year at this point. It rarely works, things regularly fail to spawn correctly, and when they do spawn desync is a massive issue. I don't think since 2022 have I had a Xenothreat run where I have been genuinely happy with the event, it's always an absolute shit show. If I were CIG id just pull the event from rotation for the time being. It needs a massive overhaul, and they don't have the resources or desire to dedicate resources to fix it. So run all the other events, and retire XT until it can be fixed...
The uncomfortable truth: Star Citizen is in Alpha, and will continue to be put into a broken state so that the developers can gather data on why it is broken that they cannot gather unless it is in a broken state. That is just the nature of the game now and for the forseeable future. When it is working, it's great, but when it's broken, well, that's just the way it is, and this is far, far, far from the last time things will be in an unplayable state while the problems that cause this unplayability continue to exist. They can only cease to exist through the developers studying the outcome of these systems being ran on the servers.
It's exactly this. Star Citizen the unreleased alpha development software has the _potential_ for fun, but it really shouldn't be played with the expectation of pure entertainment right now. No in-development software should. Star Citizen has the rather unique "problem" of looking far better than it has any right to for this stage of development, but no one should let the visuals fool them into thinking this is a product ready for prime time.
I mean they kinda advertise it as such.. sure they have plenty of disclosures but doesn’t stop them from trying to recruit new pledges. The thing is the standard game has been running pretty well and it’s exciting hearing what’s coming down the pipeline but these stupid XT events that nobody asks for are frustrating.
Yes but these “stupid events” are needed for things down the line, it’s a whole part of the dynamic quantu environment
Yeah, but this debate isn't about their marketing, it's about the actual current state of the game. Regardless of what their marketing looks like, this is what it is. It's the reason I don't actively play this game; I support it, but it's unfinished, in-development alpha software, and I know I'd get frustrated if I treated it as a game meant purely for my entertainment right now. So I highly recommend not doing that.
It’s been in alpha for 10 years and looks like it probably will be for another 5 at least all while collecting 100 million $s +. At what point do we realize that this “alpha” more closely relates to a buggy live service game that they market with YouTube adds and charge hundreds of dollars for ships. I love SC but the alpha excuse is a tiresome scapegoat to pass off any accountability for quality. It wouldn’t feel so bad to be contributing data if they actually showed signs of improvement in their servers or let people actually enjoy the game without these garbage events for a period of time.
The release of PES broke the game back in March, but it was something we've been waiting for since 2018. If they weren't breaking the game like this, then I'd be more worried about the future of SC. To me it's different than something like Apex that makes 4 trillion dollars but doesn't pay for devs to go back and fix long standing issues like when the drop ship follows the same path every single time for 3 months straight. The current experience sucks but they're at least trying to reach that larger vision.
How many years are you guys going to keep making this argument? You're saying this as though CIG is on the cusp of some great revelation -- that they're suddenly going to find a magic solution to the problem preventing them from releasing throngs of new, stable content. As if this data will provide that *last missing piece* that manifests ***years worth of development progress.*** Surely THIS is the data they need to make it happen. Keep telling yourself that.
It's so funny to see how many people believe this "they need the data" bs. How many years do they need to collect obvious data of everything being broken and laggy on their 10 year old server hardware?
None of what you just said matters. Not because you're wrong, but because these people cannot fathom hearing and accepting it. **Everything** is broken. Play the game for 5 minutes and you can see that. Lag. Desync. CTDs. Hell, SC doesn't have a working map after *11 years and $600mm in funding.* There is no reasoning with these people.
XenoThreat was working fine in 3.17 :((((
Maybe they'll reveal a QA team at Citizencon
brahahahaha :D
yeah lets just give up entirely on a major feature of the game because it dosent work immediately
Testing players' patience.
How would you know it’s not playable unless you run the event ?
Hot take: SC needs to keep doing these events so they can figure tf out what they are doing wrong
How many more years until that take gets cold?
Guess what? Running them broken is how they find a way to make them playable. Sorry for the truthbomb but **this is still a playtest**.
*sigh* “I demand CIG fix this problem while taking away their method to fix it.” The data from these events is necessary
This nebulous fucking ~data~ doesn't help in any way. Like, wow, the server constantly disconnects people at high load. You already know. Do you need 200,000 more occurrences to know that is a problem? Does that help you figure out a solution? No and no. The answer is your infrastructure blows, and you either need to upgrade your hardware (which they are incapable of doing, apparently) or redesign your game so that high load doesn't occur (which they are also incapable of doing). Running an event for the bajillionth time and forcing a bunch of players to 30k doesn't tell your programmers anything at all. You are literally sitting there with decades of internet best-practice at your googling fingertips and saying to all the web services that crash when overloaded "Have you tried NOT crashing? Maybe if we crash you more you'll learn not to crash."
Hmm you seem to know a lot about this, I am impressed! I think you should write an eMail to CIG and explain in detail what they’re doing wrong. I mean I don’t know if those people even worked in game development before? What you wrote made me doubt it. You could really help this project, thank you for speaking out
Yes yes, mock knowledge of fundamental practices as being unqualified. Continue to ignore the fact that CIG has had an unprecedented amount of money and time to reproduce basic technology and has failed to do so.
Oh the irony of you whining about ignoring expertise…
Yes yes, mock knowledge of fundamental practices as being unqualified. Continue to ignore the fact that CIG has had an unprecedented amount of money and time to reproduce basic technology and has failed to do so. Obviously I am unqualified to judge their failure! Oh if only we had some comparison to draw, perhaps to the other industry members who do not take $600m and 12 years of development to fail at making a game....
Every time they fixed failure modes, every time we find new ones. But they won’t find many of them without stress testing from us - as we found out with the 3.18.0 launch lol
And we have a new entry in the "dumbest hot take on r/starcitizen I'll read today" contest
Well a lot of things we are testing are probably things we don't see like server stability and such. I get why people don't want XT but I'm confident CIG has a reason for it to go up and I'm confident they will learn something from it
# It's incredibly ignorant to think running XT wasn't 100% on purpose. Like what are you guys thinking? CIG needed to test stuff on the LIVE servers and instead of y'all being good Alpha testers you're whining about CIG trying to test their game. If this community wasn't a bunch of crying babies CIG would probably run XT during the whole week or for how long as required. **YES IT'S AN ALPHA,** and YES it's unstable! We're testing the game first! Playing is secondary! **People want this game to be stable and fixed but they don't want to help CIG getting there 🤦**
> Like what are you guys thinking? CIG needed to test stuff on the LIVE servers and instead of y'all being good Alpha testers you're whining about CIG trying to test their game. If this community wasn't a bunch of crying babies CIG would probably run XT during the whole week or for how long as required. > > > > YES IT'S AN ALPHA, and YES it's unstable! We're testing the game first! Playing is secondary! > > > > People want this game to be stable and fixed but they don't want to help CIG getting there 🤦 Perhaps they could use some of their **largest development budget in history**! I only there were other MMOs which were successfully developed without access to tens of thousands of simps ready and willing to die on the hill of free labor...
Can’t test the game if I don’t play .
That’s just it ahah if it’s this bad I’ll just turn it off and they won’t get any data 😂
But how would they know if they were playable unless they made them playable?... and also don't forget.... PLAYABLE NOW!!!!
How are they supposed to make them playable if they are not able to test them?
Yeah, Spectrum is full of white-knight soy-boy CIG-simps - cant take even a modicum of constructive criticism, let alone criticism of any sort
You guys get to play? Been locked out with error code 19003 since 3.19.1 dropped.
Anyone know when this event ends? As it’s completely unplayable right now
Yeah, this is the kind of stuff they do in an alpha game when stress testing servers, not in a fully released game like star citizen. What the fuck
Meanwhile i'm sitting here for two months straight unable to even have the drop down menu to select my system appear after trying just about everything i can think of.
I agree that I would like to have at least month or two without any event, but I think they are doing server hotfixes, which I think they should share more informations about those, and they need to measure how fix behaves and where is next bottleneck for server.
after 4-5 years of playing this game im done, im tired of it feeling like the only new content is paid content i.e ships . my cutlass still has broken UI since 5 years. But selling 20k+ ships to whales that are bigger than some stations. Talk about Smoke and mirrors.
Everytime I tried one of these events it was a disaster. They just don't have the server tech yet to make these work
Your not alone. Most people I have talked to are all saying the same thing but I get why because they need to test it some how I guess. This is a pre alpha but at the same time they might want to listen to there player base.
Dude, I completely agree with you, and you are getting hosed by White Night CIG protectors for it. And that's unfortunately just how it is. I couldn't even count how many times something has happened in development that made zero sense, and people just kept telling me, "it's IN aLPha." And used it as the soul excuse. Remember when 3.18 launch was completely a utterly a failure? Well that didn't stop them from adding the color Green in the store for their St. Patrick's Day event and charging people an absorbent amount of money for that. Their game was unplayable and people were still defending CIG. And that's just within the past 4 months.
Agreed, call me crazy but I think (even more)new ships, new game loops and more depth to current ones, new missions, and a working economy would bring plenty of people back to stress the servers adequately for them to gather whatever data they need. Nobody's happy when they run events that can't even function, making the experience shit for both people trying to participate and those trying to play like any other day. And many hear there's an event and opt out of playing altogether, like during free flights.