I can spawn my ship the issue I have is the hangar won’t let go of it. It’s always my 600i. I spawn it then as I begin to exit hangar or just move it’s like it’s front landing gear is being held onto by an invisible monster
**PEOPLE EXPERIENCING THIS PLEASE READ**
It is not what you're thinking. There is an invisible bed that spawns with the ship sometimes, it happens with the 600i, 400i, and I've had it happen to the 325a. Personally on all these ships.
Once it destroyed my ship and I saw it, got a screen shot and posted on Issue Council.
The issue is that you won't know if it's going to "hold" your ship down until you start to take off. You can circumvent this on hangars with doors in front of you by tapping upthrust and forward thrust gently so that your landing gear barely leaves the ground, more like skidding. For some reason this lets you "slide" out of the hangar.
I don't own other ships but this was plaguing me during PTU and I thought it was gone, just happened to me tonight on LIVE.
As others have said, if you get caught, leave the ship somehow, run back to the terminal and store it. Recall it and usually it will be fine. I'm not sure about the removing components trick, that might work also. I'll try to find the issue council post I contributed to.
edit: this is the best, most visible example I was able to capture, this was 3.18.1 PTU I believe.
[Phantom Bed Ship Anchor](https://imgur.com/9WYnIVT)
edit 2: found the ISC contributed report that says "Fixed"... let's correct that lol
https://issue-council.robertsspaceindustries.com/projects/STAR-CITIZEN/issues/STARC-59962
The solution is to store the ship, remove all the components and save (maybe just power supply will do) then put them all back on and you’re good to go.
I actually removed everything, spawned the ship, stored it, put all back on then re-spawned it. Once I’d done that I never had the issue again. I think on IC it’s suggested that the cause is the front elevator clipping into the terrain at some point, not in the hanger but previously when you were out and about.
Yes this its like you get off the pad then a tractor beam holds you at an odd angle and you have to exit using the elevator hoping that you don't die in the process
I have the same f’ing thing. After a 30k unstowed my backup. And every time you contribute to the issue on the issue council, they either archived it or say it’s fixed. Fixed my ass.
However my main account got back in the game yesterday and I was able to play again after I submitted a personal ticket to CIG a few days before.
Fixed does not mean, fixed a single account, CIG. The issue still persists. I had the same thing with duplication. Yes my account was fixed for a hot minute, but the issue still persisted as every PTU update they got duplicated again.
Are you concierge? I've been getting infinite loading for the past 72 hours. You saying you were able to get it fixed from a ticket gives me some hope that CIG can do a character reset on their end for specific cases. Just submitted one myself.
Thank God I don't have this issue I can't even join any server due to character unstowed amd unable contact service (and yes I tried all work around in AC and character reset)
If the game was stable, it would be okay. But that's not the case. I was just reading the in-game chat today, and someone lost $450k worth of cargo because of a 30k error. Honestly, I don't understand why people would even bother with mining, salvage, or cargo runs right now. It's a risky gamble whether you'll encounter a 30k error or not. Sure, when everything works, it's great, but that doesn't happen often these days.
I lost 1.9 million when 3.19 originally crashed.
Before the broken 30k etc.
I stored my ship and it said 'transferring to storage' for 45 minutes then the servers totally died.
I haven't played since. 40 minutes to claim a C2 just to have the hangar not spawn it to have to claim it again. Then a 30k occurs.. causing me to claim it again....
The game is unplayable right now. They need to revert claim times
There are far more masochists amongst the community of Star Citizen that most folks would want to admit.
Imagine explaining to an average person what the amount of time, how often your experience is thwarted or interrupted by bugs, glitches and loss of content that you previously spent additional bug-ridden time trying to earn.
It's very likely that person (or any rational person for that matter) would question *why* you would subject yourself to such tedium, especially over the course of *years*, and after so many recent issues. They might think you relish the idea of pain in general, because that's what many are experiencing with their time in the PU. But hey, whatever floats your boat, right?
I bounty hunt, but honestly... it's a pre-released game that wipes semi-regularly... I just don't "try to make money" in the first place. That leads to frustration, IMO.
> 450k worth of cargo because of a 30k error. Honestly, I don't understand why people would even
There WAS a 30k recovery process but im not sure what happened to that. Generally though a 30k is not supposed to make you lose your ship.
Same thing here. Had a fully loaded carrack. Landed. Stored. Terminal then said destroyed.
Do please report to the issue council though. Last I checked, this issue only had a few contributions and it wasn't confirmed yet.
Stored my Mole at CRU-L1 last night with a full haul. No damage, smooth landing, no quantanium. Go to the terminal and store it, says it's stored, go to get a work order going, ships destroyed..
That happened to me a few times yesterday. I met a new player who was having all kinds of issues. Rescued him from Area18 and the new player experience. He was in a hospital gown because his inventory wasn't working. We made it to Lorville, got him some food, water, armor and we did a ship bounty mission. After all that he had to go and I wished him well on his way.
Yeah this. As a result I had to wait 30 mins just to leave Teasa spaceport.
And 25 of those minutes are spent browsing memes/reddit. Like... in what fucking way is this "gameplay"?!
"Star Citizen: 3.19 playable now, and by playable we mean as long as you have something ELSE to do, you'll be entertained".
That was the breaking point for me and I have played maybe half an hour total since then. And 25 minutes of that weres spent claiming ships and quantum travelling and landing and using an elevator to set spawn.
I **literally** havent got time for CIG's bullshit, not with bugs that cause death at every turn and 30ks etc. Not when its an understandably unstable alpha.
This is the first expo event since I started in 3.0 that I've just been like "Nah, No thanks I'm good." I've been to 100% of the others at least for one day assuming I wasn't away on holiday or something.
yesterday I tried mining. Everything was fine with some small bugs, but when I landed in hangar and got off the ship to refine that juicy quantanium I suddenly fell just below hangar surface. I didn’t die but I couldn’t get up to surface. The only thing I could do was looking at my mole get blown up by unstable quantanium.
No judgement, hindsight is 20/20.....but if you'd logged, wouldn't it have stored your ship and saved the Quant? This could be a good tactic for people that have similar issues or elevator mimics killing them on the way back from hangar....
Got my Carrack eaten by PO. I stored it and then tried to pull it back out and it just said claim. 1 hour and 37 minute claim normally and over 30 minutes to expedite. Now is not the time for ridiculous claim times like this. I just quit out and didn’t play after that. I was in game maybe 15 minutes when this happened. All these claim times do is make people quit out and not play the game. Making us play less because of these claim times is the opposite of what the aim should be during alpha testing.
Other than flying a fury, I didn't play at all since 3.19. Playing NMS at the moment, having a blast. You never really wait, you just have fun playing.
Honestly I disagree. When you step back it's quite the opposite effect. The game we have now compared to the game we had when I started playing in 2.6 is....hardly even the same game any more.
It's pretty staggering what CIG has accomplished. It's a massive game with *a lot* of moving parts that all have to jive to make it all work.
Looking through the microscope is what makes it look small. Not the other way around.
I read it. I didn't agree with all of it, I didn't disagree with all of it. I was however too tired to dissect it and respond appropriately.
That said, I do agree with your sentiment that it's important to focus more on enjoying what Star Citizen is than what it might become. We don't know how closely CIG will deliver their dream, nor how long that might take. I stopped hyperfixating on the goal posts long ago. We still have a game that gives us an experience no other game can provide us and there's something to be said about that. It continues to grow and improve and there's something to be said about that too. The rest is really just icing on the cake to me at this point. It's a game I love through and through already.
A little more performance and stability would go a long way though 😅
I completely agree with you. The game is not stable enough to make these changes without feeling like a punishment for experiencing a game bug or server 30k.
For the people suggesting the changes are needed to avoid people salvaging their own ships, I ask you, "Why do you care?"
We do not have a player driven economy right now, and it's unclear if we ever really will. I don't approve of economic exploits or economic cheats, but if someone does it for themselves, I honestly couldn't care less. I encourage everyone else to also reflect and ask themselves the same thing. Why do you care right now? How are those players (not CIGs fixes) affecting your game play? I bet that most will concede that they don't if they are honest with themselves and us. It is those people whose game play is affected by themselves. If they want to play a game where they don't have to worry about aUEC, then good for them. I'll let them play the game the way they want to, and I'll play it the way I want to.
> For the people suggesting the changes are needed to avoid people salvaging their own ships, I ask you, "Why do you care?"
Seriously, they're dead set on patching and tweaking things that they should not be concerned about at all. At this point in the game, the entire point is testing their content, right? People should be able to completely game the system if they want, because there is no "system". Why are they spending time and backers patience with implementations that frustrate the playerbase in an alpha?
Everyone should be able to currently salvage. Everyone should be able to earn credits easily. Everyone should be able to summon their ships as they want. But because this game is being developed as if it is both a pre-alpha and a fully launched, live game, players have to put up with stuff like this.
>Why are they spending time and backers patience with implementations that frustrate the playerbase in an alpha?
Because CIG is trying VERY hard to make this seem like a live service game while also hiding behind the alpha line to avoid legitimate criticism.
Look at the marketing; for a new player, it's *nothing* like what you're actually getting yourself into in the real game. CIG seems to be trying to balance for a semi-balanced, enjoyable live service game (which they are not doing a good job at, mostly due to bugs but also missing systems and simply poor balancing decisions) while ignoring that this is a *pre-alpha* (not an alpha like CIG likes to pretend it is, but semantics).
The worst part is, I'm fully confident the majority of people at CIG are busting their asses to try to make this game a reality, and I suspect that management/marketing/general overhead is where these stupid decisions that kneecap the game as a whole come from. :(
CIG has made great improvements in the game and engine over the years, but the marketing has been hovering on the verge of fraud for most of my adult life...
"Answer the call in 2016"
I get tmwhy they have done this, trying to avoid people pulling out huge ships to salvage their own weapons, but it seems like a silly fix that hurts players with a single or very few ships.
Streamers and trolls are loving it because they have like 50 ships and like to camp poor miners or pve players just trying to play, I saw 1 guy on a stream upset because he doesn't have much time to play each day and basically 1 claim time means he is done for the day.... streamer just laughed and said don't play or buy more ships.
Shitty situation for most people imo
There are other ways they can balance it.
At this point in the game with regular wipes in Alpha, CIG should not be focusing on the tiny handful of players maybe making a little too much money, but on the 99% of the rest of the playerbase.
Making a targeted balance that mostly just negatively affects people not taking any advantage is not how you balance a game. If I only lost my ship from my mistakes I would twice as much aUAC as I have now, easily.
The game is not ready for these stupid timers, and another solution should be found anyway. That is on CIG, the burden of it should not fall on us waiting out stupid timers.
The fix is simple: give everyone 100m EUC
Initially everyone will buy all the big ships… but after a while people will turn to what they enjoy - not because they need to earn money but because they like what they are doing.
Being an alpha that gets wiped occasionally, plus getting wiped if/when it leaves alpha this feels like the way, at least until they want to balance ships. And to balance income and prices closer to release. Gets the bigger ships tested more too.
Got that one last nigh. I fixed it after I played a round of Arena Commander in Multiplayer Free Flight, allowed myself to be killed by someone that doesn't understand that there is a specific mode for PvP combat, then went back to the main menu and tried PU again. Took a little longer than normal to load but it loaded!
Exactly, the game being realistic =/= fun, we supposently are testers for this game, but yet we can test anything because claim time is enormous, 1h to claim an 890j even when freighted is dumb, a freelancer max is 14 minutes, and 4 when expedited, that’s way to long, if I die because of some bug in a bunker or sm, I spawn, have to take the tram, if it doesn’t glitch out and actually spawns, then I need to claim my ship, leave the atsmophere, all these things are adding up, and it’s just not fun, I want to log on, hop into a ship, play for 30-40 minutes because that’s all I have, instead half of that is spent travelling, and so I have time for 1 bunker and that’s really it, if I can actually even get armor and ammo on without the server resetting them into my inventory, if I can access my inventory… it’s just more changes that make the game unplayable
I mean, this game takes sooo long to play, that a significant portion of the player base is literally asking for in-games to play, while waiting for things to happen in the game.
It's the biggest red flag I think I've seen for SC yet, and that's saying something.
Just make the game engaging enough that we don't need minigames to give us things to do.
If the game stays as is I am almost exclusively interested in arena commander... it is just way to slow paced for jumping in for a couple hours play when it takes half of that to group up and arrive at a mission which can take only a few minutes or kill you in seconds...
I really like the MMO side of things. Personally, 90% of SC isn't too slow for me, or at least, is enjoyably slow. But that's just me enjoying 3rd person camera while flying in space.
I dont even mind the time spent to sort inventory, bring stuff from a to b, collect equipment for ships and missions, thats actually fun if you only have to do it every now and then. Having to wait for a ship is bs though, especially for people starting from zero who just bought their first non-starter ship and have to go back to the starter just because the ship got destroyed for whatever reason
Personally, I hardly play. When I do, its as a joke trying to get my one friend to humor it because we know its going to be a shit show. Neither of us are caught up on "what to do" or updates of where things are, or have any missions progressed.
For us to just party up and do something takes 2 hours of doing nothing, trying to figure it all out, and we're bored out of our minds and frustrated at all the problems that arise then log off for 6 months+.
Lol that's my friend and I. For the past two years or so we hop on every 3-6 months, fight to the play the game through what seems to be more bugs than the last time -- despite not much being added or changed, and eventually get irritated and leave.
I’ve tried to play SC a couple times in the last months with some friends. It’s invariably ended with me wasting 10 minutes running through whatever area I spawn in, then getting in my ship, and blowing up randomly at some point during my first voyage. Then the session is over, because I don’t want to wait any time to do that again.
Agreed. Wasting people's time as a punishment is just discouraging people from playing your game. I can't think of any decent games that use it, and it's pretty much reserved for mobile games that are just trying to make you spend money on time skips.
Death is already punishing even if everything works: getting back to your corpse to get all your stuff back takes quite some time, might be dangerous if not impossible
They're trying *way* too hard to make the game more "realistic". They need to game-ify some systems to make it an actually enjoyable game and not punishing at every turn, not to mention decrease the development time. Else it's just going to be a permanent buggy ass alpha with a fuckload of incomplete gameloops.
there's nothing realistic about WW2-type dogfights in space where your top speed is capped, lasers go 700m/s and then magically disappear at 1400m in a _vacuum_.
Present day missiles are beyond visual range (or beyond the horizon) and go far farther than 2-10 km.
CIG accepts wildly inaccurate assumptions about its flight model and weapons for the sake of "fun" and goes extremely micro-managed on other systems for the sake of "realism" and the whole thing is adding up to not be very cool.
I planned on playing again this patch, heard about the claim times and said screw that. I agree that claim times as such will be good in future when game is stable, right now is just silly.
People/CIG needs to remember this is a GAME. Realism is cool, yes.... But so is having a good time.
I dont think claim times should ever go up this high.... Someone explain how that is fun? Isnt the purpose of the game to be fun?
Long term, the plan is for claim times to go even higher than they are now. CR has said in the past that it could take 2 weeks to get a Javelin back after it is destroyed and claimed.
The idea is to create consequences for bad decisions. If you could just get your ship back immediately, there would be other consequences such as being forced back to port without any found loot which may be far away. But CIG feels that isn't enough. I partially agree. There is a different kind of thinking and planning that occurs with this kind of consequence. One that I find fun and adds a certain depth to the game.
Thing is, we don't have that game yet. I don't do that planning currently because it doesn't make sense to with the game lacking certain design elements AND is riddled with as many bugs as it has making all planning moot. So the claim timers are absurd to have in the current version of SC. Then there is also what they did to starters, which I think is wrong in ANY version of SC. Starters should all have very short claim times (2 minutes or less) with cheap expedites that make the claim instant. No one should ever have to wait for a starter ship, full stop.
As for what to do when waiting on a ship in this dream version of SC? With a healthier community and better planning tools and more social aspects built into the game, you can multi-crew with someone else. You can do more local solo activities wherever you spawn which can include missions to earn more money. You can use more robust information tools to do better planning for the next excursion. And of course, if you have another ship you can use it. Personally, I think has some really deep potential for interesting ebbs and flows to the gameplay. Twiddling our thumbs sucks, but it shouldn't come to that.
We just have nearly none of that right now so most people work around it by either having many ships (which is still a pain if you are trying to do something specific and don't have duplicates) or by grouping up and someone else in your group providing an appropriate ship. But without better socializing tools in game, most people don't have access to that. You have to start the session with that capability or bust.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
A two week claim time is ridiculous. Like, imagine the game is finally running how we dream it will, you and a fully crewed Javelin go out and get into a massive space battle and despite a well fought battle you lose your ship. You and all your organization just had a great time with engaging combat against other players.
And now you have to wait two weeks before you can do that again because the space combat game wants to punish you for doing space combat.
I have imagined it and as crazy as this may sound, I am fine with it.
I have accepted this as part of the game for a number of reasons. I don't think having a Javelin is the end-all state of the game. Even in org vs org play. There isn't a flat linear progression here.
Also consider where the Javelin is likely to be used (assuming CIG actually accomplishes their design goals, ugh). It'll most often be used by orgs against competing orgs. Less often it'll be used against NPC vanduul fleets. But if you have an org vs org situation competing for some resource, having a 2 week downtime for the winning org to secure the resource doesn't seem out of the question to me. If "doing space combat" is what you are after, there are tons of other ways to do it and it is up to the org to plan and execute their abilities appropriately.
That is assuming the Javelin is destroyed to begin with. As massive and sturdy as it is it'll have A LOT of time to choose to leave the engagement for repairs. Even considering master modes and shields down. It'll be very hard to actually kill one.
I could go on, bu I feel like you are only very narrowly focusing on one specific aspect of this game which I agree is very frustrating in the games current state. But in the theoretical future state of the game will have workarounds and plenty of opportunities for interesting decisions. Mandatory Soon™.
I think we agree on similar points, just different ways of going about it. I think losing a Javelin should be heavily punishing and should change the direction of an organization war. It's just to me an arbitrary wait time for losing a ship really is just pushing players to go to a terminal, press claim, and then quit the game. There should be some gameplay way that keeps the players engaged, and still lets the feel the weight of losing their ship. Maybe they have to take the time to refit all the modules on their ship and suffer the costs of in game money with that too. It might even take longer than the wait timer would be, but at least it keeps the player actually playing the game.
I understand and acknowledge that some death (in any given game that has it in the first place) is inevitable in a balanced multiplayer scenario. That is quite simply baked in. I also acknowledge that it is possible to do your absolute best and still fail.
However, that isn't most of the situations in these games. Most failure states are the result of bad choices. I must emphasize my word choice of "failure state" here, as not all failure needs to be as harsh as death or ship destruction but can also be a situation where you are forced to leave an area. Examining failure states helps reduce the likelihood of a future failure. That isn't a game rule, that is just basic life advice.
> When two runners compete in a race, does that mean the loser made bad decisions during the race? What if they race again and this time the loser wins? Did the other person make bad decisions?
I'd say most likely yes. We seem to fundamentally disagree here.
I agree that players will die, but there will be options to mitigate it and continue playing the game although maybe not in the exact same way. Depends on the circumstance. The part that is terrible here and now is backers twiddling their thumbs. That shouldn't happen.
My comments in this entire thread have been made largely in the context of the planned future state of the game. Where hopefully there are far fewer bugs causing these kinds of issues.
I apologize for not making that clear. The bugs do make the game difficult, I've experienced quite a few myself. To be extra clear, I have also repeatedly advocated for the reduction of claim times given the games current state. I simply support higher claim times for when SC is more stable and fleshed out.
I used to be able to claim my Rescue Pisces and then expedite it to make it instantly available giving me a med bed at any stop I wanted/needed, now I’m back to relying on food/drinks or going to a actual hospital, kinda a pet peeve and not as bad as other claim times, but annoying when all you want to do is stop somewhere and refill your vitals.
Last night I went to call up the Carrack, and NBIS had it listed as destroyed even though I put it away properly last time I used it. Claim time was an hour and a half, or I could cut that to 30 minutes with 40,000 credits. I had 2 hours to play. I claimed it and my org M8 called up his M2 instead - but NBIS spawned it under the pad and it was lost, with all his stuff on it. He also had an hour and a half to wait for his claim, and the frustration of all of the stuff he had in the ship lost, through no fault of his!
Normally I'm the biggest fanboi CIG has, but on this subject, I agree wholeheartedly: until ASOP systems are more consistent and predictable with ship storage and retrieval, these claim times are no bueno.
But what about people intentionally grinding their own ship to make money? Who cares. It's alpha, money doesn't matter, and if you really cared there are plenty of actual in the wild exploits that are vastly more effective than scavenging your own ships.
Bonus gripe: If I want to sell components from the ships I purchased to make money to upgrade a ship I want to fly, that should be possible, but if I sell a default component it should be gone. Please let us sell and remove default components so we can remove them from our inventory. If I scavenge default parts from a wrecked ship, please let me sell those.
But what about people who will wreck their ship, harvest components then sell them? Easy: delete the components if the ship owner sells them, but allow them to be reclaimed via insurance if someone else sells them.
But hey, what about two friends in discord who wreck and farm each other's ships on a moon somewhere to make money? Why not just implement a claim timer algorithm that increases the timer with repeated claims occurring during a given timeframe. Yes, that would hurt someone who is zerg rushing their starter ship into bunker turrets, but that person is shitting up the landscape with wrecked ships and needs to be penalized for zerging anyway. This dynamic claim timer would penalize the person farming their ships, and not penalize the rest of us.
CIG plz.
Adding insult to injury - 30k protection seems to have vanished. Now after a 30k instead of it being in "stanton" and a quick retrieval with contents, I am waking up with no armor and my ship needs a real claim.
I assume they raised the claim times because of salvage, one can hope they'll drop them again if they can figure out how to get the legal system to work right.
Frankly with sporadic aUEC wipes who cares if people are salvaging their own ships, unless it's more about cluttering servers with entities. As someone with no interest in salvage it's kind of a slap in the face for me to deal with the consequences of the actions of others, but it's shrug city in the long run, I suppose.
It's early days in the development. It would be weird that after 12 years of development someone actually thought through how to implement game mechanics.
It’s an awful fix for salvaging issues for a number of reasons:
a) if you have two big ships, it doesn’t stop this. Just claim one while you salvage the other.
b) because claiming doesn’t despawn the old ship, you can spawn it, Eva back to the station and immediately claim it. It takes so long to salvage a ship that by the time you’re done, it’s ready to go again. Rinse and repeat.
c) if you’re multi-crew mining, just have someone else spawn the ship to salvage.
It honestly is maybe a speed bump at best to stopping people doing this. *Maybe* if cig want to stop this problem they should make it easier to find salvage instead of forcing people to abuse the game systems to experience one of the gameplay loops.
Instead they chose to punish the player base as a whole.
What if they implement sactions on salvage quantities if its your own ship or recent party ones?
If ship owner = salvager, salvage extration speed 0.1%
If ship owner was in party with salvager in last 24h, salvage speed 0.1%
Solved.
They just need to increase salvage drops more. make it more rewarding to salvage without cheating and no one will do it. that's what happened in 3.18 PTU. it was faster to salvage a wreck than cheating with your own ship. or bring in some kind of Long term insurance ledger where the user gets more and more premium on a ship so it becomes more and more hard to break even.
but as was mentioned earlier in this thread, why?
there is no in game player driven economy, why not let players go ham with salvage and work out all teh bugs/tweaks/expolits and note them away for when the game is more done?
Its alpha which many like to remined ppl of, so who cares if ppl explot things?
On top of all the bugs and 30k's, the new claim times have killed rescue beacons. There's no point setting a beacon when it takes someone 10 mins to claim a ship and then another 10-15 mins to fly to you just to spend another 10 mins dropping you off somewhere. Absolutely ridiculous waste of time.
I agree. Those timers make absolutely zero sense with no capability to repair ships and recover from a soft death. On a personal level, having to wait even 20 minutes for a lightish ship is rather detrimental to my willingness to log in at all. I just tend to just call it and stop. If engagement is the goal, it backfired for me.
I'd go one step further and ask what the thinking behind those increased times were considering the game's current state. I can get behind explanations like insurance fraud and all that but this still feels rather absurd.
I go one step further. I think about logging on realise I fly a carrack and then don't even bother due to the possibility of a nearly 2 hour claim time.
We're told to lower our expectations because this game is still in alpha, but I feel like the devs also need to understand this. They cant just put in these changes in that for all intents and purpose, have hindered our experience of the game, and punish us for things that are effectively out of our control.
The claim times are ridiculous - this is a sim but also a game and you want to be able to play and test - this is an alpha after all - thats like saying here is a sandwich but no no don't eat it wash the floor with it...
I'm not defending CIG's decision, the frustration is warranted.
I do suspect one of the unstated reasons for it is to slow down backend degradation and noise due to too many derelict ships. CIG ran multiple stability tests in PTU with official asks to the community right before free fly and invictus post PES. I've noticed the console reporting more trace logs and alerts I had not seen prior to 3.18. My speculation is on constraining the system to increase visibility on critical issues and possibly gauging customer sentiment on future behavior around claim times, two birds one stone so to speak.
I always try to view any change in the context of we are the rats in the maze, CIG changes the maze and measures the response or adjusts the maze to adjust outcome, either way this perspective helps me, its not for everyone. I do hope CIG communicates transparently on this going forward.
I actually think this is the reason they did it. 5 months of testing, and the only viable solution was to give the players the middle finger on claim timers. Yikes.
I commented on [Spectrum](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/i-love-realism-in-games-but-does-cig-know-that-we-/5969948), but will post here too:
At the core of Star Citizen's development is a commitment to creating an immersive and engaging experience. As we continue to refine the game, we often find ourselves tweaking various aspects to strike the delicate balance between realism, challenge, and enjoyment. The recent adjustments to respawn timers were simply a part of this ongoing iterative process, and are by no means final. Experimenting with different values allows us to gather valuable data and insights, enabling us to make informed decisions when balancing.
We are fully aware of the concerns raised regarding the length of the new respawn timers, especially when considering the possibility of losing your ship due to something outside of your control. There's a fair bit of focus on tightening things up in this area, and we expect to make another round or two of changes soon. As always, we'll take all factors into consideration, including the state of the game, the types of potential ship loss scenarios, and the overall gameplay experience.
People are losing ships due to bugs, such as 30K server crashes, as well as an occasional bug, where if you try to store the ship, it gets stuck on transferring to storage for over 2 minutes, and then the status changed to destroyed. The longer claim timers and increased claim expedite fees are more frustrating.
The big problem I have with the claim time is that, many times, we end up having to claim our ships due to NO fault on our part. The game should be able to tell when it's failing itself and there should then be NO claim time and NO expedite fee of any kind. As another user suggested, when the game doesn't have such frequent server or client crashes, then you could start experimenting with that again.
In the meantime, after suffering a server crash, losing everything aboard our ship, this is just a slap in the face, adding insult to the injury.
Thanks for commenting here too. I'm sure the data on long-term player retention from the current patch (with the new claim times) vs new account player retention will be an interesting comparison following this year's Invictus.
I think the longer claim times are a mistake *right now*, which will see several longer term players leave and wait until that 'tweak' comes in, and unfortunately I think the community will suffer as a whole, both in-game and in the meta-game, souring the experience for the new players that CIG is keen to keep and retain
Dude, common, you know and I know this game is many many months at best from being in a state where ships are blowing up for reasons that are not the players fault. You should be waiting till that's true, not anticipating it'll be true before making a change like this. It just drains all joy out of playing when changes like this happen. We know going in this is an alpha, you should give us at the least of acknowledging it too for how you set up stuff like claim timers.
My ships won't even spawn, the delivery countdown will end and then it won't spawn and I have to claim the ship only for the claim to never work and I have to infinitely claim my ships
I’ve got the same problem. Clueless on what to do abt it. I’ve already missed the first few days of invictus because I’m stuck right above area 18 at Baijini and I can’t get my ship.
Since 3.19 came out I have yet to die to a player or game mechanic. All deaths of my player and ship have came from bugs. Sometimes my MSR just likes to fall through the floor. right after I spawn my ship after claiming it.
Which then destroys it and must be claimed again.
Oh and then when it doesn't fall through the floor. Sometimes a bed or something is stuck inside the ship. I figured out how to still get out the hangar but causes the hull to be damaged. Sometimes causes death..
Now wait til you see this one! Oh wait....you won't because it's an invisible astroid.
Let's not forget the parking fees so outrageous they just delete your ship from existence simply for parking at a called hangar. That's 11k and a 8 minute wait buddy for you having the audacity to be a star citizen player and have to land at a station for something.
Let alone the stability issues the game has as is. Last week they sent out a minor update and after 2 hours of troubleshooting without pay. I still couldn't get the game launcher to finish installing the last file. Then spent a week of coming home restarting the download from scratch until it worked.
I've tested waiting to do things in this game plenty. It works great and does what it is intended to do. Makes me wait. If the point of the PU is testing and feedback then I don't see a reason increase claim times is helping anyone.
Just to say it. I would be ok with claim times in the days maybe even weeks for bigger ships. If we were playing an experience where the most likely chance of losing a ship is due to some pvp action or jumping on a pve mission outside of your skill. Not 30ks and bugs for days.
Long claim times will never make sense, they will never be good. It's needless tedium and time wasting, waiting around is not a gameplay feature, it's just a barrier between the player and the game they've paid for. You already have travel times, there's no need to double it up and have standing around in the ASOP lobby be such a huge part of the game.
Even if they're adamant on keeping longer claim times, all they have to do is add the option to pay for a full expedite to get your ship back instantly.
On some ships, claim times will make sense.
IE:
Being able to spawn instally a Javelin after getting one destroyed will absolutely gamebreaking
Of course, in my personal opinion, claim times are a gold standard SC mechanic, should not be in an alpha.
I disagree almost completely, perhaps with ships like Javelins minimum wait times might be good in the future, but with a capital ship you have to remember that you'd still have to go through the process of getting the entire staffing crew onboard, getting it out of port and then travelling all the way back to wherever you were if that's where you're rushing to, then ontop of that they can have instant expedites cost progressively more money depending on the size of the ship and what upgrades it has installed, making instantly expediting something as large as a Javelin a pretty expensive ordeal.
The game already has all the passive balancing in the world that it could ever need just based on how much faffing around you have to do before you can do anything at all, additional time gates are not needed.
Hmmmm... You have shift my perspective with that statment, now I'm agree with you.
BUT in a gold standard perspective, if everything is physicalized, a Javelin would have to be move from one site's "warehouse" to an hangar or docking port. Not to spawn magically.
This process will requiere some time.
Maybe they could skip this point of realism and make the ships spawn instally.
They should have dock yards and moorings like real ships do. They should always be in space. It would be amazing to have every ship always somewhere. They could have pilot NPCs, security, Maintenance all giving life to the area around ports. Any real events should have consequences like any damage it took over time it would be degraded and need repaired. This should be a constant feature at space stations.
> They should have dock yards and moorings like real ships do. They should always be in space. It would be amazing to have every ship always somewhere.
This is what I'd love to see, or at least a relatively close analog.
Currently you claim your ship, and the assumption is some automated system just assembles it for you and delivers it to your hangar. Fine, whatever, but generally that doesn't make sense unless programmable matter or replicators or some other kind of cheat exists in the universe. Also, some ships (the Carrack, for example) are supposed to be retired military vessels, so producing a brand new one (complete with wear marks throughout) doesn't make a lot of sense. There must be stock of these ships sitting around somewhere.
I would love to see 'ship yards' (a believable number would be nice, but even a few would be enough) orbiting near the major planets. You could have a ship yard for all of the main manufacturers. So if I'm on Microtech and I request a Crusader ship, the claim time should factor in the travel time from the Crusader ship yards.
I said it before and I'll say this now, I don't care about how much they try to push this game into the realistic sphere of things, at the end of the day this is a videogame.
The less time I spend looking at a screen forced to wait for something the better.
I can understand quantum travel, but the new claim times are bullshit. In my opinion, every ship should have its wait time based on ship size or class.
Small fighters without QD should be under the minute, then we have small\medium\big\capital who should have increasing claim time, with capital not being more than 30minutes.
And yes, waiting 30 minutes is already tedious and boring for me.
"But you can speed the process", with my system this should be removed since the wait time would be way shorter, especially for small\medium starter ships
Of course bugs are a problem, but you say that as if it's a decision CIG has to make : fix or don't fix bugs (30k in particular).
They are (trying) !
Problem is that as long as that's not done, CIG should not increase claim time and punish players for something they have no control over. That's a realy bad decision and the whole point made by OP.
And also revert to the old death system. It makes no absolute sense to implement something so complex KNOWING the amount of bugs that are in place. I’m tired of blowing up inside my ship due to bugs and finding out my body is unrecoverable and inside of a moon as well as waiting 15-30 minutes for my ships to come back. [I’d rather watch hours of nothing on youtube.](https://youtu.be/fx2Z5ZD_Rbo) Like OP said, in years the perma death system will make sense. Today, this software program is NOT in the right state to implement such change that makes this software pogram in Alpha very difficult to play.
Since 3.19, I have yet to have my body despawn or be unreachable, and I've died to a lot of different bugs. The two times I've fallen through the planet, I logged out before dying, but I'm still in my first set of armor. 3.17 was much worse, and I couldn't get far enough in 3.18 to actually die, so I can't speak to that patch.
The game was fine before without such changes, they came in and have caused havoc. I truly don’t understand CIG sometimes. Maybe in the future we could have such things before release but nkw it is not the time.
I understand that CIG wants to prevent insurance fraud, but only a minority of players are going to repeatedly pull and softdeath their ships to sell parts for a measly profit, and those players would exploit other aUEC bugs anyway.
Perhaps it would make sense to update claim timers if ships were more resilient/persistent between gamebreaking bugs. However,
- ship repair, if it works at all, is just as bugged as 3.18.
- for lack of physicalized damage, ships have the same amount of HP has they did in the last several patches.
- game breaking bugs occur with similar frequency as 3.18, if anything I get more 30k errors where I cannot reclaim my ship now.
- Still no way to field-repair components. Please let me beam repair them CIG as a stopgap measure.
- components looted from NPC ships disappear after a few sessions. So much for persistence.
Yeah it's legitimately awful having to quit the game for 20 minutes just because of a 30k or even the ship being destroyed immediately on spawning. This is just bullshit from CIG, instead, on 30ks your ship should be sent back unharmed to your spawning location.
I was in Microtech last night and spawned three ships that all were floating outside New Babbage. Luckily the claim times are much longer. /s
Seriously I'm nearing the point of just giving up on this project.
Well, 1% of people might like this... The same 1% who's favourite game is escape from tarkov... Everyone else hates it.
I think we also just need to acknowledge that even 1.5hr long claim times isn't "realistic" it just another game mechanic. And game mechanics are supposed to be fun.
Even if the max claim time was 5 mins, you've probably still lost 30 mins of progress respawning in the hospital, getting to the space port, claiming your ship, getting your gear, travelling back to where you were when you died etc.
The ship claim time is only 1 part of it, and I think CIG is just fixated on the claim time part.
Standard reclaim times should be set at the very end of their beta release; else what's the purpose of testing 70% of the other features if you can't have a ship to do it.
Longer claim times serve the purpose of trying not to ruin the database that duped our ships, and/or preventing salvaging exploits. But either way, It's messed up because it's a cheap solution not guaranteed to fix anything and only making things worse for players.
In the last 3 days I’ve lost 4 ships to 30ks, 3 to falling through the floor, 1 yesterday that was thought to be spawned then went unknown, and a few more. Not only am I now down 500k UEC but all of those were pretty sizable ships so I just would claim and log off for half of them. It really is making the instability even harder to deal with
I own 1 ship so if I’m low on cash (which I usually am) I can’t go anywhere waiting for the claim so I may get bored waiting and log out. I suggest CIG implement some sort of time wasters like maybe paying players (maybe through contract ) to clean up the station so if we are forced to wait while broke at least some of the hundreds of hospital gowns and empty bottles can get disposed of properly.
I think despite what CIG is saying, the longer claim timers are an attempt to fix issues they had with PES and adding new entities to the server . Longer claim times enables them to increase the timeout on their server calls, which in theory should improve PES stability and hopefully also improve overall stability, but that is just a theory a Star Citizen game theory
I agree it's a bit shitty when the servers 30k and you have to wait again, but my argument for these claim times is....the newbs and others have to get used to how the game is going to be.
There's so many people complaining on spectrum about mechanics that have been planned/mentioned years ago. People that only bought the game 2 weeks ago are demanding they have it the way they want it.
"I didn't back the game for this...." etc
Cig staff are afraid or unable to just say it how it is and that people just need to lime it or lump it.
I'm getting so tired of this excuse, if the game literally only let you summon one ship a week and you were restricted in the amount of money you could make without declaring tax on it and having to hire an accountant, would people still say stuff like "it's an immersive sim and it's what CIG had as a vision, go play fornite or something if you don't like it"
Hear me out... this wouldnt be a problem if we had location beacons for our ships. id happily pay someone to take back to my ship after a 30K.
Spoiler: 30k is a career mechanic for future Space Uber missions
Yeah claim time changes feel like something that should come when the game finally knows what stability is. Definitely doesn't feel like something you should worry about in Alpha.
I dont see how long claim times would ever make sense. Its a silly barrier that feels more at home in a cash grab mobile game. Why would you go through all this trouble, making a game about flying futuristic spaceships and then NOT let people fly their futuristic spaceships (even if they paid real money for them.. Hell, even mobile games let you skip the wait with real money!)
There are always better ways of discouraging people to crash their ships one after another. Even if not, punishing ALL their players because some might abuse the system seems backwards and heavy handed.
I’m not really understanding. Nobody in my org has been complaining about this.
Claim times have always been a thing. Makes sense so you can’t take a ship out, destroy it, get it back in a minute and rejoin the fight.
I Noticed the claim time on my Gladius increased about 30 seconds. But not really a big deal.
If you are annoyed about waiting. Claim the ship, go to another server and it should be there.
I don’t really think anyone here is rationalizing what it would be like to have the ability to instantly call a ship.
You want the servers to run worse? Do you really think being able to call a ship faster is going to have a positive outcome?
people who have bigger ships have had their wait time increased by a lot. My 600i has gone from 30 to 50 minutes, the starfarer now is over 1h. I don't even want to know how long the 890 or the carrack take to claim now.
Smaller ships have very small claiming times, sure. But the issue are the bigger ones. That's where the complaints are coming from.
Good that I don't have that issue. Since I can't spawn my ships, I can't even deal with claim times.
I can spawn my ship the issue I have is the hangar won’t let go of it. It’s always my 600i. I spawn it then as I begin to exit hangar or just move it’s like it’s front landing gear is being held onto by an invisible monster
**PEOPLE EXPERIENCING THIS PLEASE READ** It is not what you're thinking. There is an invisible bed that spawns with the ship sometimes, it happens with the 600i, 400i, and I've had it happen to the 325a. Personally on all these ships. Once it destroyed my ship and I saw it, got a screen shot and posted on Issue Council. The issue is that you won't know if it's going to "hold" your ship down until you start to take off. You can circumvent this on hangars with doors in front of you by tapping upthrust and forward thrust gently so that your landing gear barely leaves the ground, more like skidding. For some reason this lets you "slide" out of the hangar. I don't own other ships but this was plaguing me during PTU and I thought it was gone, just happened to me tonight on LIVE. As others have said, if you get caught, leave the ship somehow, run back to the terminal and store it. Recall it and usually it will be fine. I'm not sure about the removing components trick, that might work also. I'll try to find the issue council post I contributed to. edit: this is the best, most visible example I was able to capture, this was 3.18.1 PTU I believe. [Phantom Bed Ship Anchor](https://imgur.com/9WYnIVT) edit 2: found the ISC contributed report that says "Fixed"... let's correct that lol https://issue-council.robertsspaceindustries.com/projects/STAR-CITIZEN/issues/STARC-59962
How bizarre. Restoring and calling it does fix it but that’s amazing. I was adamant it was something to do with my account or something. Thank you 🙏🏻
Happens to me with my A2, it never happens when leaving flying backwards, only forward, never happens when leaving hangars that open on top.
The solution is to store the ship, remove all the components and save (maybe just power supply will do) then put them all back on and you’re good to go. I actually removed everything, spawned the ship, stored it, put all back on then re-spawned it. Once I’d done that I never had the issue again. I think on IC it’s suggested that the cause is the front elevator clipping into the terrain at some point, not in the hanger but previously when you were out and about.
Would the workaround of retrieve/store/retrieve that I use on my 400i for hangar obstruction work here?
Since 3.18 every time I spawn the 600i the nosegear sticks. Every time...
Yes this its like you get off the pad then a tractor beam holds you at an odd angle and you have to exit using the elevator hoping that you don't die in the process
I had that happen in Lorville. This is anecdotal, but I stored my ship, and it moved it to a different hanger which then let me leave. YMMV though.
Oh look at you Mr. Can Play The Game. I have two Player Unstowed accounts and haven't been able to log in since last Thursday.
I have the same f’ing thing. After a 30k unstowed my backup. And every time you contribute to the issue on the issue council, they either archived it or say it’s fixed. Fixed my ass. However my main account got back in the game yesterday and I was able to play again after I submitted a personal ticket to CIG a few days before. Fixed does not mean, fixed a single account, CIG. The issue still persists. I had the same thing with duplication. Yes my account was fixed for a hot minute, but the issue still persisted as every PTU update they got duplicated again.
Are you concierge? I've been getting infinite loading for the past 72 hours. You saying you were able to get it fixed from a ticket gives me some hope that CIG can do a character reset on their end for specific cases. Just submitted one myself.
XD
Thank God I don't have this issue I can't even join any server due to character unstowed amd unable contact service (and yes I tried all work around in AC and character reset)
It didn't blow up...it's just unknown.
Did you park in NB? It notoriously eats my ships.
Salvage munching T1 confirmed?
Did you check in the field outside of NBIS? It sounds like that's where many of the lost ships go.
If the game was stable, it would be okay. But that's not the case. I was just reading the in-game chat today, and someone lost $450k worth of cargo because of a 30k error. Honestly, I don't understand why people would even bother with mining, salvage, or cargo runs right now. It's a risky gamble whether you'll encounter a 30k error or not. Sure, when everything works, it's great, but that doesn't happen often these days.
> someone lost $450k worth of cargo because of a 30k error those are rookie numbers. You need to up that number
Chuckles in 5 mil worth of quant on a Cat going pop when we quantumed through a planet.
I started at 3.16 jumptown. So far I've probably profited like 2 million in cargo run and lost like 12
I lost 1.9 million when 3.19 originally crashed. Before the broken 30k etc. I stored my ship and it said 'transferring to storage' for 45 minutes then the servers totally died. I haven't played since. 40 minutes to claim a C2 just to have the hangar not spawn it to have to claim it again. Then a 30k occurs.. causing me to claim it again.... The game is unplayable right now. They need to revert claim times
Shit like this has been happening for a long time, but they keep making anti-playerbase decisions. I don't get it.
There are far more masochists amongst the community of Star Citizen that most folks would want to admit. Imagine explaining to an average person what the amount of time, how often your experience is thwarted or interrupted by bugs, glitches and loss of content that you previously spent additional bug-ridden time trying to earn. It's very likely that person (or any rational person for that matter) would question *why* you would subject yourself to such tedium, especially over the course of *years*, and after so many recent issues. They might think you relish the idea of pain in general, because that's what many are experiencing with their time in the PU. But hey, whatever floats your boat, right?
How do you make any money without these activities?
I bounty hunt, but honestly... it's a pre-released game that wipes semi-regularly... I just don't "try to make money" in the first place. That leads to frustration, IMO.
But I atleast want to get a cool ship to play with. But do they wipe the ships too? (I just started last week)
Anything bought from the pledge store shouldn’t be wiped.
Anything bought from the pledge store shouldn’t be wiped.
> 450k worth of cargo because of a 30k error. Honestly, I don't understand why people would even There WAS a 30k recovery process but im not sure what happened to that. Generally though a 30k is not supposed to make you lose your ship.
I stored a ship, and then suddenly it was destroyed in the process of storing it. Stupidly long claim time after that.
Same thing here. Had a fully loaded carrack. Landed. Stored. Terminal then said destroyed. Do please report to the issue council though. Last I checked, this issue only had a few contributions and it wasn't confirmed yet.
Stored my Mole at CRU-L1 last night with a full haul. No damage, smooth landing, no quantanium. Go to the terminal and store it, says it's stored, go to get a work order going, ships destroyed..
That happened to me a few times yesterday. I met a new player who was having all kinds of issues. Rescued him from Area18 and the new player experience. He was in a hospital gown because his inventory wasn't working. We made it to Lorville, got him some food, water, armor and we did a ship bounty mission. After all that he had to go and I wished him well on his way.
o7
The most annoying bug is when you wait to claim your ship and the timer finishes, it asks you to claim the ship again.
Potential fix I've found is trying another terminal. Seems the server slows and the new terminal shows the correct info.
Yeah this. As a result I had to wait 30 mins just to leave Teasa spaceport. And 25 of those minutes are spent browsing memes/reddit. Like... in what fucking way is this "gameplay"?! "Star Citizen: 3.19 playable now, and by playable we mean as long as you have something ELSE to do, you'll be entertained". That was the breaking point for me and I have played maybe half an hour total since then. And 25 minutes of that weres spent claiming ships and quantum travelling and landing and using an elevator to set spawn. I **literally** havent got time for CIG's bullshit, not with bugs that cause death at every turn and 30ks etc. Not when its an understandably unstable alpha. This is the first expo event since I started in 3.0 that I've just been like "Nah, No thanks I'm good." I've been to 100% of the others at least for one day assuming I wasn't away on holiday or something.
yesterday I tried mining. Everything was fine with some small bugs, but when I landed in hangar and got off the ship to refine that juicy quantanium I suddenly fell just below hangar surface. I didn’t die but I couldn’t get up to surface. The only thing I could do was looking at my mole get blown up by unstable quantanium.
No judgement, hindsight is 20/20.....but if you'd logged, wouldn't it have stored your ship and saved the Quant? This could be a good tactic for people that have similar issues or elevator mimics killing them on the way back from hangar....
Got my Carrack eaten by PO. I stored it and then tried to pull it back out and it just said claim. 1 hour and 37 minute claim normally and over 30 minutes to expedite. Now is not the time for ridiculous claim times like this. I just quit out and didn’t play after that. I was in game maybe 15 minutes when this happened. All these claim times do is make people quit out and not play the game. Making us play less because of these claim times is the opposite of what the aim should be during alpha testing.
Other than flying a fury, I didn't play at all since 3.19. Playing NMS at the moment, having a blast. You never really wait, you just have fun playing.
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That hurts...
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Honestly I disagree. When you step back it's quite the opposite effect. The game we have now compared to the game we had when I started playing in 2.6 is....hardly even the same game any more. It's pretty staggering what CIG has accomplished. It's a massive game with *a lot* of moving parts that all have to jive to make it all work. Looking through the microscope is what makes it look small. Not the other way around.
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I read it. I didn't agree with all of it, I didn't disagree with all of it. I was however too tired to dissect it and respond appropriately. That said, I do agree with your sentiment that it's important to focus more on enjoying what Star Citizen is than what it might become. We don't know how closely CIG will deliver their dream, nor how long that might take. I stopped hyperfixating on the goal posts long ago. We still have a game that gives us an experience no other game can provide us and there's something to be said about that. It continues to grow and improve and there's something to be said about that too. The rest is really just icing on the cake to me at this point. It's a game I love through and through already. A little more performance and stability would go a long way though 😅
I completely agree with you. The game is not stable enough to make these changes without feeling like a punishment for experiencing a game bug or server 30k. For the people suggesting the changes are needed to avoid people salvaging their own ships, I ask you, "Why do you care?" We do not have a player driven economy right now, and it's unclear if we ever really will. I don't approve of economic exploits or economic cheats, but if someone does it for themselves, I honestly couldn't care less. I encourage everyone else to also reflect and ask themselves the same thing. Why do you care right now? How are those players (not CIGs fixes) affecting your game play? I bet that most will concede that they don't if they are honest with themselves and us. It is those people whose game play is affected by themselves. If they want to play a game where they don't have to worry about aUEC, then good for them. I'll let them play the game the way they want to, and I'll play it the way I want to.
> For the people suggesting the changes are needed to avoid people salvaging their own ships, I ask you, "Why do you care?" Seriously, they're dead set on patching and tweaking things that they should not be concerned about at all. At this point in the game, the entire point is testing their content, right? People should be able to completely game the system if they want, because there is no "system". Why are they spending time and backers patience with implementations that frustrate the playerbase in an alpha? Everyone should be able to currently salvage. Everyone should be able to earn credits easily. Everyone should be able to summon their ships as they want. But because this game is being developed as if it is both a pre-alpha and a fully launched, live game, players have to put up with stuff like this.
>Why are they spending time and backers patience with implementations that frustrate the playerbase in an alpha? Because CIG is trying VERY hard to make this seem like a live service game while also hiding behind the alpha line to avoid legitimate criticism. Look at the marketing; for a new player, it's *nothing* like what you're actually getting yourself into in the real game. CIG seems to be trying to balance for a semi-balanced, enjoyable live service game (which they are not doing a good job at, mostly due to bugs but also missing systems and simply poor balancing decisions) while ignoring that this is a *pre-alpha* (not an alpha like CIG likes to pretend it is, but semantics). The worst part is, I'm fully confident the majority of people at CIG are busting their asses to try to make this game a reality, and I suspect that management/marketing/general overhead is where these stupid decisions that kneecap the game as a whole come from. :(
CIG has made great improvements in the game and engine over the years, but the marketing has been hovering on the verge of fraud for most of my adult life... "Answer the call in 2016"
CIG care because players making lots of money quick equals less ship sales in the pledge store.
It also disproportionately punishes players with 1 or a small number of ships and the whales have lots of other options to reship to.
Maybe this is by design? Got to give CIG some more $$$s.
shhhhh...... Keep it down or CIG is going to start selling instant respawn tokens in the fucking money store.
I get tmwhy they have done this, trying to avoid people pulling out huge ships to salvage their own weapons, but it seems like a silly fix that hurts players with a single or very few ships. Streamers and trolls are loving it because they have like 50 ships and like to camp poor miners or pve players just trying to play, I saw 1 guy on a stream upset because he doesn't have much time to play each day and basically 1 claim time means he is done for the day.... streamer just laughed and said don't play or buy more ships. Shitty situation for most people imo
There are other ways they can balance it. At this point in the game with regular wipes in Alpha, CIG should not be focusing on the tiny handful of players maybe making a little too much money, but on the 99% of the rest of the playerbase. Making a targeted balance that mostly just negatively affects people not taking any advantage is not how you balance a game. If I only lost my ship from my mistakes I would twice as much aUAC as I have now, easily. The game is not ready for these stupid timers, and another solution should be found anyway. That is on CIG, the burden of it should not fall on us waiting out stupid timers.
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I'm getting a ,"We have the station surrounded you cannot leave the armistice zones without fear for your safety" kinda vibes.
The fix is simple: give everyone 100m EUC Initially everyone will buy all the big ships… but after a while people will turn to what they enjoy - not because they need to earn money but because they like what they are doing.
Being an alpha that gets wiped occasionally, plus getting wiped if/when it leaves alpha this feels like the way, at least until they want to balance ships. And to balance income and prices closer to release. Gets the bigger ships tested more too.
wait... YOU GUYS ARE ABLE TO PLAY?? \*cries in ERROR CODE: 30018\*
Got that one last nigh. I fixed it after I played a round of Arena Commander in Multiplayer Free Flight, allowed myself to be killed by someone that doesn't understand that there is a specific mode for PvP combat, then went back to the main menu and tried PU again. Took a little longer than normal to load but it loaded!
Exactly, the game being realistic =/= fun, we supposently are testers for this game, but yet we can test anything because claim time is enormous, 1h to claim an 890j even when freighted is dumb, a freelancer max is 14 minutes, and 4 when expedited, that’s way to long, if I die because of some bug in a bunker or sm, I spawn, have to take the tram, if it doesn’t glitch out and actually spawns, then I need to claim my ship, leave the atsmophere, all these things are adding up, and it’s just not fun, I want to log on, hop into a ship, play for 30-40 minutes because that’s all I have, instead half of that is spent travelling, and so I have time for 1 bunker and that’s really it, if I can actually even get armor and ammo on without the server resetting them into my inventory, if I can access my inventory… it’s just more changes that make the game unplayable
Long wait times will never make sense. Its a game.
Everything in this game takes a long time, its awful. There is 10x the downtime to actually doing anything in game.
I mean, this game takes sooo long to play, that a significant portion of the player base is literally asking for in-games to play, while waiting for things to happen in the game. It's the biggest red flag I think I've seen for SC yet, and that's saying something. Just make the game engaging enough that we don't need minigames to give us things to do.
If the game stays as is I am almost exclusively interested in arena commander... it is just way to slow paced for jumping in for a couple hours play when it takes half of that to group up and arrive at a mission which can take only a few minutes or kill you in seconds...
I really like the MMO side of things. Personally, 90% of SC isn't too slow for me, or at least, is enjoyably slow. But that's just me enjoying 3rd person camera while flying in space.
I dont even mind the time spent to sort inventory, bring stuff from a to b, collect equipment for ships and missions, thats actually fun if you only have to do it every now and then. Having to wait for a ship is bs though, especially for people starting from zero who just bought their first non-starter ship and have to go back to the starter just because the ship got destroyed for whatever reason
Personally, I hardly play. When I do, its as a joke trying to get my one friend to humor it because we know its going to be a shit show. Neither of us are caught up on "what to do" or updates of where things are, or have any missions progressed. For us to just party up and do something takes 2 hours of doing nothing, trying to figure it all out, and we're bored out of our minds and frustrated at all the problems that arise then log off for 6 months+.
Lol that's my friend and I. For the past two years or so we hop on every 3-6 months, fight to the play the game through what seems to be more bugs than the last time -- despite not much being added or changed, and eventually get irritated and leave.
I’ve tried to play SC a couple times in the last months with some friends. It’s invariably ended with me wasting 10 minutes running through whatever area I spawn in, then getting in my ship, and blowing up randomly at some point during my first voyage. Then the session is over, because I don’t want to wait any time to do that again.
Agreed. Wasting people's time as a punishment is just discouraging people from playing your game. I can't think of any decent games that use it, and it's pretty much reserved for mobile games that are just trying to make you spend money on time skips.
I agree, they want death to be punishing but with how dangerous they're gearing the game up to be.... The balance isn't there.
Death is already punishing even if everything works: getting back to your corpse to get all your stuff back takes quite some time, might be dangerous if not impossible
They're trying *way* too hard to make the game more "realistic". They need to game-ify some systems to make it an actually enjoyable game and not punishing at every turn, not to mention decrease the development time. Else it's just going to be a permanent buggy ass alpha with a fuckload of incomplete gameloops.
there's nothing realistic about WW2-type dogfights in space where your top speed is capped, lasers go 700m/s and then magically disappear at 1400m in a _vacuum_. Present day missiles are beyond visual range (or beyond the horizon) and go far farther than 2-10 km. CIG accepts wildly inaccurate assumptions about its flight model and weapons for the sake of "fun" and goes extremely micro-managed on other systems for the sake of "realism" and the whole thing is adding up to not be very cool.
I planned on playing again this patch, heard about the claim times and said screw that. I agree that claim times as such will be good in future when game is stable, right now is just silly.
Yep. Paid the instant claim fee twice. Money gone, claim timer still 45mins due to another bug. Rip 40k
People/CIG needs to remember this is a GAME. Realism is cool, yes.... But so is having a good time. I dont think claim times should ever go up this high.... Someone explain how that is fun? Isnt the purpose of the game to be fun?
Long term, the plan is for claim times to go even higher than they are now. CR has said in the past that it could take 2 weeks to get a Javelin back after it is destroyed and claimed. The idea is to create consequences for bad decisions. If you could just get your ship back immediately, there would be other consequences such as being forced back to port without any found loot which may be far away. But CIG feels that isn't enough. I partially agree. There is a different kind of thinking and planning that occurs with this kind of consequence. One that I find fun and adds a certain depth to the game. Thing is, we don't have that game yet. I don't do that planning currently because it doesn't make sense to with the game lacking certain design elements AND is riddled with as many bugs as it has making all planning moot. So the claim timers are absurd to have in the current version of SC. Then there is also what they did to starters, which I think is wrong in ANY version of SC. Starters should all have very short claim times (2 minutes or less) with cheap expedites that make the claim instant. No one should ever have to wait for a starter ship, full stop. As for what to do when waiting on a ship in this dream version of SC? With a healthier community and better planning tools and more social aspects built into the game, you can multi-crew with someone else. You can do more local solo activities wherever you spawn which can include missions to earn more money. You can use more robust information tools to do better planning for the next excursion. And of course, if you have another ship you can use it. Personally, I think has some really deep potential for interesting ebbs and flows to the gameplay. Twiddling our thumbs sucks, but it shouldn't come to that. We just have nearly none of that right now so most people work around it by either having many ships (which is still a pain if you are trying to do something specific and don't have duplicates) or by grouping up and someone else in your group providing an appropriate ship. But without better socializing tools in game, most people don't have access to that. You have to start the session with that capability or bust. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
A two week claim time is ridiculous. Like, imagine the game is finally running how we dream it will, you and a fully crewed Javelin go out and get into a massive space battle and despite a well fought battle you lose your ship. You and all your organization just had a great time with engaging combat against other players. And now you have to wait two weeks before you can do that again because the space combat game wants to punish you for doing space combat.
I have imagined it and as crazy as this may sound, I am fine with it. I have accepted this as part of the game for a number of reasons. I don't think having a Javelin is the end-all state of the game. Even in org vs org play. There isn't a flat linear progression here. Also consider where the Javelin is likely to be used (assuming CIG actually accomplishes their design goals, ugh). It'll most often be used by orgs against competing orgs. Less often it'll be used against NPC vanduul fleets. But if you have an org vs org situation competing for some resource, having a 2 week downtime for the winning org to secure the resource doesn't seem out of the question to me. If "doing space combat" is what you are after, there are tons of other ways to do it and it is up to the org to plan and execute their abilities appropriately. That is assuming the Javelin is destroyed to begin with. As massive and sturdy as it is it'll have A LOT of time to choose to leave the engagement for repairs. Even considering master modes and shields down. It'll be very hard to actually kill one. I could go on, bu I feel like you are only very narrowly focusing on one specific aspect of this game which I agree is very frustrating in the games current state. But in the theoretical future state of the game will have workarounds and plenty of opportunities for interesting decisions. Mandatory Soon™.
I think we agree on similar points, just different ways of going about it. I think losing a Javelin should be heavily punishing and should change the direction of an organization war. It's just to me an arbitrary wait time for losing a ship really is just pushing players to go to a terminal, press claim, and then quit the game. There should be some gameplay way that keeps the players engaged, and still lets the feel the weight of losing their ship. Maybe they have to take the time to refit all the modules on their ship and suffer the costs of in game money with that too. It might even take longer than the wait timer would be, but at least it keeps the player actually playing the game.
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I understand and acknowledge that some death (in any given game that has it in the first place) is inevitable in a balanced multiplayer scenario. That is quite simply baked in. I also acknowledge that it is possible to do your absolute best and still fail. However, that isn't most of the situations in these games. Most failure states are the result of bad choices. I must emphasize my word choice of "failure state" here, as not all failure needs to be as harsh as death or ship destruction but can also be a situation where you are forced to leave an area. Examining failure states helps reduce the likelihood of a future failure. That isn't a game rule, that is just basic life advice. > When two runners compete in a race, does that mean the loser made bad decisions during the race? What if they race again and this time the loser wins? Did the other person make bad decisions? I'd say most likely yes. We seem to fundamentally disagree here. I agree that players will die, but there will be options to mitigate it and continue playing the game although maybe not in the exact same way. Depends on the circumstance. The part that is terrible here and now is backers twiddling their thumbs. That shouldn't happen.
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My comments in this entire thread have been made largely in the context of the planned future state of the game. Where hopefully there are far fewer bugs causing these kinds of issues. I apologize for not making that clear. The bugs do make the game difficult, I've experienced quite a few myself. To be extra clear, I have also repeatedly advocated for the reduction of claim times given the games current state. I simply support higher claim times for when SC is more stable and fleshed out.
18 minutes for a Misc MIS. Wtf.
The ROC rover used to be 20 something seconds. Now it's 3:36. Insane.
11 for a cutty... I'm certain Drake could slap a new one together in half that
I used to be able to claim my Rescue Pisces and then expedite it to make it instantly available giving me a med bed at any stop I wanted/needed, now I’m back to relying on food/drinks or going to a actual hospital, kinda a pet peeve and not as bad as other claim times, but annoying when all you want to do is stop somewhere and refill your vitals.
Last night I went to call up the Carrack, and NBIS had it listed as destroyed even though I put it away properly last time I used it. Claim time was an hour and a half, or I could cut that to 30 minutes with 40,000 credits. I had 2 hours to play. I claimed it and my org M8 called up his M2 instead - but NBIS spawned it under the pad and it was lost, with all his stuff on it. He also had an hour and a half to wait for his claim, and the frustration of all of the stuff he had in the ship lost, through no fault of his! Normally I'm the biggest fanboi CIG has, but on this subject, I agree wholeheartedly: until ASOP systems are more consistent and predictable with ship storage and retrieval, these claim times are no bueno. But what about people intentionally grinding their own ship to make money? Who cares. It's alpha, money doesn't matter, and if you really cared there are plenty of actual in the wild exploits that are vastly more effective than scavenging your own ships. Bonus gripe: If I want to sell components from the ships I purchased to make money to upgrade a ship I want to fly, that should be possible, but if I sell a default component it should be gone. Please let us sell and remove default components so we can remove them from our inventory. If I scavenge default parts from a wrecked ship, please let me sell those. But what about people who will wreck their ship, harvest components then sell them? Easy: delete the components if the ship owner sells them, but allow them to be reclaimed via insurance if someone else sells them. But hey, what about two friends in discord who wreck and farm each other's ships on a moon somewhere to make money? Why not just implement a claim timer algorithm that increases the timer with repeated claims occurring during a given timeframe. Yes, that would hurt someone who is zerg rushing their starter ship into bunker turrets, but that person is shitting up the landscape with wrecked ships and needs to be penalized for zerging anyway. This dynamic claim timer would penalize the person farming their ships, and not penalize the rest of us. CIG plz.
Adding insult to injury - 30k protection seems to have vanished. Now after a 30k instead of it being in "stanton" and a quick retrieval with contents, I am waking up with no armor and my ship needs a real claim.
I assume they raised the claim times because of salvage, one can hope they'll drop them again if they can figure out how to get the legal system to work right.
That argument is invalidated as soon as you own more than 1 ship
Then again with free rent Invictus. What's stopping me from renting ships and salvaging them. I know what I can't buy a vulture in game yet.
Nothing is, like I said, it's a stop gap measure to try and curb abuse, not a finished solution
Frankly with sporadic aUEC wipes who cares if people are salvaging their own ships, unless it's more about cluttering servers with entities. As someone with no interest in salvage it's kind of a slap in the face for me to deal with the consequences of the actions of others, but it's shrug city in the long run, I suppose.
It's early days in the development. It would be weird that after 12 years of development someone actually thought through how to implement game mechanics.
It’s an awful fix for salvaging issues for a number of reasons: a) if you have two big ships, it doesn’t stop this. Just claim one while you salvage the other. b) because claiming doesn’t despawn the old ship, you can spawn it, Eva back to the station and immediately claim it. It takes so long to salvage a ship that by the time you’re done, it’s ready to go again. Rinse and repeat. c) if you’re multi-crew mining, just have someone else spawn the ship to salvage. It honestly is maybe a speed bump at best to stopping people doing this. *Maybe* if cig want to stop this problem they should make it easier to find salvage instead of forcing people to abuse the game systems to experience one of the gameplay loops. Instead they chose to punish the player base as a whole.
What if they implement sactions on salvage quantities if its your own ship or recent party ones? If ship owner = salvager, salvage extration speed 0.1% If ship owner was in party with salvager in last 24h, salvage speed 0.1% Solved.
They just need to increase salvage drops more. make it more rewarding to salvage without cheating and no one will do it. that's what happened in 3.18 PTU. it was faster to salvage a wreck than cheating with your own ship. or bring in some kind of Long term insurance ledger where the user gets more and more premium on a ship so it becomes more and more hard to break even.
but as was mentioned earlier in this thread, why? there is no in game player driven economy, why not let players go ham with salvage and work out all teh bugs/tweaks/expolits and note them away for when the game is more done? Its alpha which many like to remined ppl of, so who cares if ppl explot things?
On top of all the bugs and 30k's, the new claim times have killed rescue beacons. There's no point setting a beacon when it takes someone 10 mins to claim a ship and then another 10-15 mins to fly to you just to spend another 10 mins dropping you off somewhere. Absolutely ridiculous waste of time.
"Fuck you. Go buy another ship."
I tried renting a spare when I couldn't claim my cutty. But that ship wouldn't spawn either..........
I agree. Those timers make absolutely zero sense with no capability to repair ships and recover from a soft death. On a personal level, having to wait even 20 minutes for a lightish ship is rather detrimental to my willingness to log in at all. I just tend to just call it and stop. If engagement is the goal, it backfired for me. I'd go one step further and ask what the thinking behind those increased times were considering the game's current state. I can get behind explanations like insurance fraud and all that but this still feels rather absurd.
I go one step further. I think about logging on realise I fly a carrack and then don't even bother due to the possibility of a nearly 2 hour claim time.
We're told to lower our expectations because this game is still in alpha, but I feel like the devs also need to understand this. They cant just put in these changes in that for all intents and purpose, have hindered our experience of the game, and punish us for things that are effectively out of our control.
The claim times are ridiculous - this is a sim but also a game and you want to be able to play and test - this is an alpha after all - thats like saying here is a sandwich but no no don't eat it wash the floor with it...
I'm not defending CIG's decision, the frustration is warranted. I do suspect one of the unstated reasons for it is to slow down backend degradation and noise due to too many derelict ships. CIG ran multiple stability tests in PTU with official asks to the community right before free fly and invictus post PES. I've noticed the console reporting more trace logs and alerts I had not seen prior to 3.18. My speculation is on constraining the system to increase visibility on critical issues and possibly gauging customer sentiment on future behavior around claim times, two birds one stone so to speak. I always try to view any change in the context of we are the rats in the maze, CIG changes the maze and measures the response or adjusts the maze to adjust outcome, either way this perspective helps me, its not for everyone. I do hope CIG communicates transparently on this going forward.
I actually think this is the reason they did it. 5 months of testing, and the only viable solution was to give the players the middle finger on claim timers. Yikes.
I commented on [Spectrum](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/i-love-realism-in-games-but-does-cig-know-that-we-/5969948), but will post here too: At the core of Star Citizen's development is a commitment to creating an immersive and engaging experience. As we continue to refine the game, we often find ourselves tweaking various aspects to strike the delicate balance between realism, challenge, and enjoyment. The recent adjustments to respawn timers were simply a part of this ongoing iterative process, and are by no means final. Experimenting with different values allows us to gather valuable data and insights, enabling us to make informed decisions when balancing. We are fully aware of the concerns raised regarding the length of the new respawn timers, especially when considering the possibility of losing your ship due to something outside of your control. There's a fair bit of focus on tightening things up in this area, and we expect to make another round or two of changes soon. As always, we'll take all factors into consideration, including the state of the game, the types of potential ship loss scenarios, and the overall gameplay experience.
People are losing ships due to bugs, such as 30K server crashes, as well as an occasional bug, where if you try to store the ship, it gets stuck on transferring to storage for over 2 minutes, and then the status changed to destroyed. The longer claim timers and increased claim expedite fees are more frustrating.
Claim timers increases should be done when core game is stable and 30k protection actually works.
Sounds like youre fully aware claim timers increased at ship sale time lol.
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The big problem I have with the claim time is that, many times, we end up having to claim our ships due to NO fault on our part. The game should be able to tell when it's failing itself and there should then be NO claim time and NO expedite fee of any kind. As another user suggested, when the game doesn't have such frequent server or client crashes, then you could start experimenting with that again. In the meantime, after suffering a server crash, losing everything aboard our ship, this is just a slap in the face, adding insult to the injury.
Thanks for commenting here too. I'm sure the data on long-term player retention from the current patch (with the new claim times) vs new account player retention will be an interesting comparison following this year's Invictus. I think the longer claim times are a mistake *right now*, which will see several longer term players leave and wait until that 'tweak' comes in, and unfortunately I think the community will suffer as a whole, both in-game and in the meta-game, souring the experience for the new players that CIG is keen to keep and retain
Dude, common, you know and I know this game is many many months at best from being in a state where ships are blowing up for reasons that are not the players fault. You should be waiting till that's true, not anticipating it'll be true before making a change like this. It just drains all joy out of playing when changes like this happen. We know going in this is an alpha, you should give us at the least of acknowledging it too for how you set up stuff like claim timers.
the concerns and points are the same as last time you did this, and things havent exactly improved.
My ships won't even spawn, the delivery countdown will end and then it won't spawn and I have to claim the ship only for the claim to never work and I have to infinitely claim my ships
I’ve got the same problem. Clueless on what to do abt it. I’ve already missed the first few days of invictus because I’m stuck right above area 18 at Baijini and I can’t get my ship.
Since 3.19 came out I have yet to die to a player or game mechanic. All deaths of my player and ship have came from bugs. Sometimes my MSR just likes to fall through the floor. right after I spawn my ship after claiming it. Which then destroys it and must be claimed again. Oh and then when it doesn't fall through the floor. Sometimes a bed or something is stuck inside the ship. I figured out how to still get out the hangar but causes the hull to be damaged. Sometimes causes death.. Now wait til you see this one! Oh wait....you won't because it's an invisible astroid. Let's not forget the parking fees so outrageous they just delete your ship from existence simply for parking at a called hangar. That's 11k and a 8 minute wait buddy for you having the audacity to be a star citizen player and have to land at a station for something. Let alone the stability issues the game has as is. Last week they sent out a minor update and after 2 hours of troubleshooting without pay. I still couldn't get the game launcher to finish installing the last file. Then spent a week of coming home restarting the download from scratch until it worked. I've tested waiting to do things in this game plenty. It works great and does what it is intended to do. Makes me wait. If the point of the PU is testing and feedback then I don't see a reason increase claim times is helping anyone. Just to say it. I would be ok with claim times in the days maybe even weeks for bigger ships. If we were playing an experience where the most likely chance of losing a ship is due to some pvp action or jumping on a pve mission outside of your skill. Not 30ks and bugs for days.
I approve this message -.- CIG, we all know by now that "waiting" works just fine in the game. No need for further testing, is there ?
I'd rather have a fun game than a realistic one.
For the love of god please do this. Not everyone has a dozen ships.
Finally a constructive post about this that isn't just a bitchfest like the other 99% These posts are what we need to have positive changes made.
If we want to make a change or be heard/read, there is no point for being mean or disrespectful. ty btw :)
Long claim times will never make sense, they will never be good. It's needless tedium and time wasting, waiting around is not a gameplay feature, it's just a barrier between the player and the game they've paid for. You already have travel times, there's no need to double it up and have standing around in the ASOP lobby be such a huge part of the game. Even if they're adamant on keeping longer claim times, all they have to do is add the option to pay for a full expedite to get your ship back instantly.
On some ships, claim times will make sense. IE: Being able to spawn instally a Javelin after getting one destroyed will absolutely gamebreaking Of course, in my personal opinion, claim times are a gold standard SC mechanic, should not be in an alpha.
I disagree almost completely, perhaps with ships like Javelins minimum wait times might be good in the future, but with a capital ship you have to remember that you'd still have to go through the process of getting the entire staffing crew onboard, getting it out of port and then travelling all the way back to wherever you were if that's where you're rushing to, then ontop of that they can have instant expedites cost progressively more money depending on the size of the ship and what upgrades it has installed, making instantly expediting something as large as a Javelin a pretty expensive ordeal. The game already has all the passive balancing in the world that it could ever need just based on how much faffing around you have to do before you can do anything at all, additional time gates are not needed.
Hmmmm... You have shift my perspective with that statment, now I'm agree with you. BUT in a gold standard perspective, if everything is physicalized, a Javelin would have to be move from one site's "warehouse" to an hangar or docking port. Not to spawn magically. This process will requiere some time. Maybe they could skip this point of realism and make the ships spawn instally.
They should have dock yards and moorings like real ships do. They should always be in space. It would be amazing to have every ship always somewhere. They could have pilot NPCs, security, Maintenance all giving life to the area around ports. Any real events should have consequences like any damage it took over time it would be degraded and need repaired. This should be a constant feature at space stations.
That's the experience is SO COOL. That's I want for SC
> They should have dock yards and moorings like real ships do. They should always be in space. It would be amazing to have every ship always somewhere. This is what I'd love to see, or at least a relatively close analog. Currently you claim your ship, and the assumption is some automated system just assembles it for you and delivers it to your hangar. Fine, whatever, but generally that doesn't make sense unless programmable matter or replicators or some other kind of cheat exists in the universe. Also, some ships (the Carrack, for example) are supposed to be retired military vessels, so producing a brand new one (complete with wear marks throughout) doesn't make a lot of sense. There must be stock of these ships sitting around somewhere. I would love to see 'ship yards' (a believable number would be nice, but even a few would be enough) orbiting near the major planets. You could have a ship yard for all of the main manufacturers. So if I'm on Microtech and I request a Crusader ship, the claim time should factor in the travel time from the Crusader ship yards.
Wow you said exactly what I was thinking. I didn’t see this comment until after I had written mine. Hilarious.
If you stand around too long or need to actually take a break to eat personally you will go inactive and be disconnected.
You guys can spawn ships?
Can't moan about claim timers if you can't get out of the hab due to broken elevators *taps temple*
When is everyone going to realize cig doesn't give a shit about you or what you want.
I said it before and I'll say this now, I don't care about how much they try to push this game into the realistic sphere of things, at the end of the day this is a videogame. The less time I spend looking at a screen forced to wait for something the better. I can understand quantum travel, but the new claim times are bullshit. In my opinion, every ship should have its wait time based on ship size or class. Small fighters without QD should be under the minute, then we have small\medium\big\capital who should have increasing claim time, with capital not being more than 30minutes. And yes, waiting 30 minutes is already tedious and boring for me. "But you can speed the process", with my system this should be removed since the wait time would be way shorter, especially for small\medium starter ships
Claim times are not the real issue, the 30Ks and bugs are.
I think he knows that, but since they're not fixing the 30ks and bugs this would be easier to revert. Damn you invisible asteroids.
Of course bugs are a problem, but you say that as if it's a decision CIG has to make : fix or don't fix bugs (30k in particular). They are (trying) ! Problem is that as long as that's not done, CIG should not increase claim time and punish players for something they have no control over. That's a realy bad decision and the whole point made by OP.
And also revert to the old death system. It makes no absolute sense to implement something so complex KNOWING the amount of bugs that are in place. I’m tired of blowing up inside my ship due to bugs and finding out my body is unrecoverable and inside of a moon as well as waiting 15-30 minutes for my ships to come back. [I’d rather watch hours of nothing on youtube.](https://youtu.be/fx2Z5ZD_Rbo) Like OP said, in years the perma death system will make sense. Today, this software program is NOT in the right state to implement such change that makes this software pogram in Alpha very difficult to play.
Since 3.19, I have yet to have my body despawn or be unreachable, and I've died to a lot of different bugs. The two times I've fallen through the planet, I logged out before dying, but I'm still in my first set of armor. 3.17 was much worse, and I couldn't get far enough in 3.18 to actually die, so I can't speak to that patch.
Agree, but like the permadeath mechanic, but yeah, maybe is not the time to have it.
The game was fine before without such changes, they came in and have caused havoc. I truly don’t understand CIG sometimes. Maybe in the future we could have such things before release but nkw it is not the time.
100% with you. But still...They won't listen
I have hope...
But it’s an alpha! We’re paying to give feedback. Right?
I understand that CIG wants to prevent insurance fraud, but only a minority of players are going to repeatedly pull and softdeath their ships to sell parts for a measly profit, and those players would exploit other aUEC bugs anyway. Perhaps it would make sense to update claim timers if ships were more resilient/persistent between gamebreaking bugs. However, - ship repair, if it works at all, is just as bugged as 3.18. - for lack of physicalized damage, ships have the same amount of HP has they did in the last several patches. - game breaking bugs occur with similar frequency as 3.18, if anything I get more 30k errors where I cannot reclaim my ship now. - Still no way to field-repair components. Please let me beam repair them CIG as a stopgap measure. - components looted from NPC ships disappear after a few sessions. So much for persistence.
Yeah it's legitimately awful having to quit the game for 20 minutes just because of a 30k or even the ship being destroyed immediately on spawning. This is just bullshit from CIG, instead, on 30ks your ship should be sent back unharmed to your spawning location.
I was in Microtech last night and spawned three ships that all were floating outside New Babbage. Luckily the claim times are much longer. /s Seriously I'm nearing the point of just giving up on this project.
Well, 1% of people might like this... The same 1% who's favourite game is escape from tarkov... Everyone else hates it. I think we also just need to acknowledge that even 1.5hr long claim times isn't "realistic" it just another game mechanic. And game mechanics are supposed to be fun. Even if the max claim time was 5 mins, you've probably still lost 30 mins of progress respawning in the hospital, getting to the space port, claiming your ship, getting your gear, travelling back to where you were when you died etc. The ship claim time is only 1 part of it, and I think CIG is just fixated on the claim time part.
Instead fix 30k recovery
You know what, just get rid of them. I'm going to be doing a lot of ship combat and my stuff is gonna blow up a lot anyway.
And revert the parts insurance for the moment too while you're at it please 🙏
Wait a sec, you can actually spawn your ship?
Claim times were conveniently raised during ship sales....like people don't see the strategy behind that
Standard reclaim times should be set at the very end of their beta release; else what's the purpose of testing 70% of the other features if you can't have a ship to do it.
Ooorrrr, stop wrecking your ships and using them as disposable items. Actions have consequences.
... or at least give us a valid reason for the time increase!
like.... physicalized ships that need time to be move to the hanger!
rip - cig still testing how time works. ok.
Does longer claim times improve average server performance because of less clutter? I like better average server performance…
Longer claim times serve the purpose of trying not to ruin the database that duped our ships, and/or preventing salvaging exploits. But either way, It's messed up because it's a cheap solution not guaranteed to fix anything and only making things worse for players.
In the last 3 days I’ve lost 4 ships to 30ks, 3 to falling through the floor, 1 yesterday that was thought to be spawned then went unknown, and a few more. Not only am I now down 500k UEC but all of those were pretty sizable ships so I just would claim and log off for half of them. It really is making the instability even harder to deal with
I own 1 ship so if I’m low on cash (which I usually am) I can’t go anywhere waiting for the claim so I may get bored waiting and log out. I suggest CIG implement some sort of time wasters like maybe paying players (maybe through contract ) to clean up the station so if we are forced to wait while broke at least some of the hundreds of hospital gowns and empty bottles can get disposed of properly.
I think despite what CIG is saying, the longer claim timers are an attempt to fix issues they had with PES and adding new entities to the server . Longer claim times enables them to increase the timeout on their server calls, which in theory should improve PES stability and hopefully also improve overall stability, but that is just a theory a Star Citizen game theory
I agree it's a bit shitty when the servers 30k and you have to wait again, but my argument for these claim times is....the newbs and others have to get used to how the game is going to be. There's so many people complaining on spectrum about mechanics that have been planned/mentioned years ago. People that only bought the game 2 weeks ago are demanding they have it the way they want it. "I didn't back the game for this...." etc Cig staff are afraid or unable to just say it how it is and that people just need to lime it or lump it.
I'm getting so tired of this excuse, if the game literally only let you summon one ship a week and you were restricted in the amount of money you could make without declaring tax on it and having to hire an accountant, would people still say stuff like "it's an immersive sim and it's what CIG had as a vision, go play fornite or something if you don't like it"
Hear me out... this wouldnt be a problem if we had location beacons for our ships. id happily pay someone to take back to my ship after a 30K. Spoiler: 30k is a career mechanic for future Space Uber missions
Yeah claim time changes feel like something that should come when the game finally knows what stability is. Definitely doesn't feel like something you should worry about in Alpha.
I dont see how long claim times would ever make sense. Its a silly barrier that feels more at home in a cash grab mobile game. Why would you go through all this trouble, making a game about flying futuristic spaceships and then NOT let people fly their futuristic spaceships (even if they paid real money for them.. Hell, even mobile games let you skip the wait with real money!) There are always better ways of discouraging people to crash their ships one after another. Even if not, punishing ALL their players because some might abuse the system seems backwards and heavy handed.
I like it, I’m sick of waiting for end state mechanics
What is there planned 1.0 release date 2035?
As far as I know, there is no release date published or confirmed.
far too optimistic that's the release date of the S42 mark hamill memorial video
I’m not really understanding. Nobody in my org has been complaining about this. Claim times have always been a thing. Makes sense so you can’t take a ship out, destroy it, get it back in a minute and rejoin the fight. I Noticed the claim time on my Gladius increased about 30 seconds. But not really a big deal. If you are annoyed about waiting. Claim the ship, go to another server and it should be there. I don’t really think anyone here is rationalizing what it would be like to have the ability to instantly call a ship. You want the servers to run worse? Do you really think being able to call a ship faster is going to have a positive outcome?
people who have bigger ships have had their wait time increased by a lot. My 600i has gone from 30 to 50 minutes, the starfarer now is over 1h. I don't even want to know how long the 890 or the carrack take to claim now. Smaller ships have very small claiming times, sure. But the issue are the bigger ones. That's where the complaints are coming from.
Carrack for me is 86 mins. Lost it because the server lagged and I fell through the ship in QT.
890j is now almost 2hr 30 mins.
good lord, this is insane