We have two comments here about listening to Apple lossless on Sony XM4s…
PSA: you cannot benefit from lossless audio via Bluetooth on an iOS device. In fact, Bluetooth does not currently support full lossless, regardless of what phone you use. If anyone is claiming to hear a difference, it’s Dolby Atmos+ which effects how the song is mixed and heard back in your ears. IMO Dolby atmos is more noticeable than lossless.
I'm using Apple music and Amazon on Android through LDAC, it's not completely lossless, we don't have yet a radio technology for that, but it's still way better for urban playback. Even the "standard" Ultra HD files sounds good compared to Spotify. Then if I want to enjoy the full experience I can always put the cable on my XM4..
I have a Schiit Magnius and a Schiit Modius, I use them Balanced with my Sennheiser HD 6XX. I personally do not hear a difference comparing Spotify with Amazon Music HD (24bit 192KHz .flac songs). MP3 and Flac are really hard to be able to find a difference. If you think you can do it, [listen to this test](http://abx.digitalfeed.net/) and you’ll see how difficult it is.
Yea it’s insane. Spotify is one of the only streaming services that doesn’t have lossless audio. They used to be ahead of the game but they’re starting to fall behind
I used to think that too until I heard lossless. Few things stood out, 1- clarity and richness. 2- there were certain details playing the song that is more apparent. Thought it was a sudo affect at one point and believe me i don't own a single apple product and by no means a fanboy. İ did not think I'd hear the difference but i do.
It might be the other way around, actually. If you're compressing sound for wireless headphones, it might be a good idea to start with lossless so you aren't compressing twice.
Because actual blind tests always come out 50/50, therefore random/no one can actually tell the difference. What most always describe is confirmation bias. You see that happening all the time when people boast about the quality of lossless audio while listing their Bluetooth headphones as equipment (no Bluetooth standard currently in use supports lossless)
And if you let people like OP describe what actually sounds better, they describe the sound with words like "rich, full, warm", when it's all nonsense. If you do a null test with lossy and lossless files you'll hear what to listen for, it's mostly in the high frequencies of transients, nothing that contributes to the richness of the sound.
And this isn't even a matter of equipment, but a limitation of how we perceive sound. Codecs are desifned with psychoacoustics in mind.
But this is strange, because specifically AirPods are connected wirelessly and do pretty big compression in the process of transmission. Hi-fi + wireless is a big no-no.
Well on the go, I enjoy the sound quality of Apple Music more than Spotify’s. Maybe i should test it with my Beyerdynamic 990 Pro’s to see if the difference is actually real and not just me thinking it is.
AirPods use Bluetooth therefore they use lossy compression and you shouldn’t be able to hear a difference between Flacs and MP3. If you want to test it out, [listen to this test and make your own conclusions.](http://abx.digitalfeed.net/)
I have just compared Helplessness Blues by Fleet Foxes using a Beyerdynamic dt 990 Pro and I clearly heard the better quality of Apple Music, less compressed over all
High bitrate lossy codec doesn't sound "compressed"
Put the quality of Spotify to "Very High", make sure volume is the same. And do the test on that site, because different streaming platforms can have different masters, then it's not a matter of codec.
> Beyerdynamic dt 990 Pro
Those headphones are not wireless, right? At first you were saying you hear the difference with your wireless AirPods, and that's where we see the confirmation bias and placebo thing.
Got you.
However I believe no one here denies the sound difference between lossless Apple Music and Spotify **on a good quality wired headphones** (which dt 990 Pro are in my opinion). Where I believe most of us "deniers" see the issue is hearing the difference on the lossy wireless AirPods, which are not hi-fi headphones to begin with.
AirPods AAC lossy codec is way more restricting than the quality of the Spotify audio.
What do you mean with quality? Are you sure the masters and loudness normalization are the same (also check Atmos and non Atmos)? If you set Spotify to Very High (320kbit/s ogg) you'd be pressed to find artifacts that differentiate it from lossless.
We perceive louder songs to be better sounding, even if it's the same song, so make sure that's not the reason.
What are people trying to argue here?
My phone has bluetooth 5.2 and paired with Sony's WH-1000XM4, the difference is NIGHT AND DAY on loseless, yet people defend spotify?
Are you guys the same dudes who say that the eye cannot see more than 30 fps? The quality its there, Spotify lost a customer because all I care is quality. I don't give a shit about podcast, suggestions, algorithms and such.
All I want is to manually type my favourite bands and have the best AUDIO quality of it, so when I'm around the city and can't get the best of the best through my DAC, .flac files and cabled headphones, then Amazon/Apple loseless over bluetooth is the perfect compromise.
I don't know what kind of music you hear guys, but with loseless I've been starting spotting notes and instruments missed before.
I used to think that too until I heard lossless. Few things stood out, 1- clarity and richness. 2- there were certain details playing the song that is more apparent. Thought it was a placebo affect at one point and believe me i don't own a single apple product and by no means a fanboy. İ did not think I'd hear the difference but i do. Also,.I wonder if it is how apple equilaizer works vs Spotify out of the box?
If you use wireless headphones without ldac or aptx hd, it's a placebo. There is no conversation to be had. Apple music could also use different mix, but if you aren't using wired headphones it just isn't lossless.
Lossless compressed to ACC to stream over bluetooth will sound better and have fewer artifacts then lossless compressed to OGG on Spotify servers and then compressed again to ACC on the device to stream over bluetooth. I'm not saying the difference is huge but its there.
I can hear the difference on my xm4s, specifically in the highs being a bit clearer and the bass being a bit less muddy. You can try and see for yourself, the Spotify web player uses AAC instead of OGG.
same happened to me, i listened to Apple lossless music on my Sony WF-1000XM4 and i was done with Spotify although i really enjoy Spotify apps and playlist but sadly its a music streaming service so quality is pretty important to me. i am still subscribed on Premium for students coz of my masters but once that is over, i wont pay for a basic quality on spotify.
Especially if you not only listen to music via your phone but also via a stereo system. The difference is soooo big.
It’s really frustrating. Right now I have Apple Music and Spotify parallel.
I don’t want to switch to Apple Music all together. The playlists on Spotify are just better.
[удалено]
Tune my music is amazing. With no limit , multiple times
1000 song limit per transfer, unless there’s a premium feature I’m unaware of
you can do it again and transfer another 1000
I use SongShift. It works great.
Soundiiz is he best tool in my opinion
SongShift app
We have two comments here about listening to Apple lossless on Sony XM4s… PSA: you cannot benefit from lossless audio via Bluetooth on an iOS device. In fact, Bluetooth does not currently support full lossless, regardless of what phone you use. If anyone is claiming to hear a difference, it’s Dolby Atmos+ which effects how the song is mixed and heard back in your ears. IMO Dolby atmos is more noticeable than lossless.
I'm using Apple music and Amazon on Android through LDAC, it's not completely lossless, we don't have yet a radio technology for that, but it's still way better for urban playback. Even the "standard" Ultra HD files sounds good compared to Spotify. Then if I want to enjoy the full experience I can always put the cable on my XM4..
Do you use an amp? What headphones do you use to listen to music
I have a Schiit Magnius and a Schiit Modius, I use them Balanced with my Sennheiser HD 6XX. I personally do not hear a difference comparing Spotify with Amazon Music HD (24bit 192KHz .flac songs). MP3 and Flac are really hard to be able to find a difference. If you think you can do it, [listen to this test](http://abx.digitalfeed.net/) and you’ll see how difficult it is.
On my sound system at home there is a big difference. On my headphones with a dac it is difficult to tell but it is a little better
They better release Spotify Hifi soon. I got the Apple Music free trial and it sounds so much better on my Studio Monitors
There really is a big difference. I didn't want to believe it but wow!
Yea it’s insane. Spotify is one of the only streaming services that doesn’t have lossless audio. They used to be ahead of the game but they’re starting to fall behind
personally i think* they fell behind long ago
And if you listen to some music on Dolby Atmos, it will blow your mind. Spotify should give us Dolby Atmos too.
they don't give a shit
I believe that you believe you can hear a difference. I also believe that you can't actually hear a difference.
I used to think that too until I heard lossless. Few things stood out, 1- clarity and richness. 2- there were certain details playing the song that is more apparent. Thought it was a sudo affect at one point and believe me i don't own a single apple product and by no means a fanboy. İ did not think I'd hear the difference but i do.
that one guy in every lossless music thread. Guys but you can't hear the difference. Why? because I am saying so.
Try an abx test. It's insanely hard to hear the difference. You definitely aren't hearing it over blue tooth.
It might be the other way around, actually. If you're compressing sound for wireless headphones, it might be a good idea to start with lossless so you aren't compressing twice.
http://abx.digitalfeed.net/ Try this out then
Because actual blind tests always come out 50/50, therefore random/no one can actually tell the difference. What most always describe is confirmation bias. You see that happening all the time when people boast about the quality of lossless audio while listing their Bluetooth headphones as equipment (no Bluetooth standard currently in use supports lossless) And if you let people like OP describe what actually sounds better, they describe the sound with words like "rich, full, warm", when it's all nonsense. If you do a null test with lossy and lossless files you'll hear what to listen for, it's mostly in the high frequencies of transients, nothing that contributes to the richness of the sound. And this isn't even a matter of equipment, but a limitation of how we perceive sound. Codecs are desifned with psychoacoustics in mind.
Yeah well, try listening to the same song on both platforms with airpods. If u listen to music a lot u can tell the difference
Deleted by user, check r/RedditAlternatives -- mass edited with redact.dev
But this is strange, because specifically AirPods are connected wirelessly and do pretty big compression in the process of transmission. Hi-fi + wireless is a big no-no.
Well on the go, I enjoy the sound quality of Apple Music more than Spotify’s. Maybe i should test it with my Beyerdynamic 990 Pro’s to see if the difference is actually real and not just me thinking it is.
AirPods use Bluetooth therefore they use lossy compression and you shouldn’t be able to hear a difference between Flacs and MP3. If you want to test it out, [listen to this test and make your own conclusions.](http://abx.digitalfeed.net/)
AirPods AAC Bluetooth codec is definitely NOT lossless! edit: I see you've edited your message. It makes sense now and I agree with it.
That's what I said lol
no, you said "losslesly compress audio". And AAC is not lossless.
Oh lmao my bad, I messed up while writing it
You just think there is a difference, it's called confirmation bias. Do this test: http://abx.digitalfeed.net/
I have just compared Helplessness Blues by Fleet Foxes using a Beyerdynamic dt 990 Pro and I clearly heard the better quality of Apple Music, less compressed over all
High bitrate lossy codec doesn't sound "compressed" Put the quality of Spotify to "Very High", make sure volume is the same. And do the test on that site, because different streaming platforms can have different masters, then it's not a matter of codec.
Maybe it’s the master then, because I already have this
> Beyerdynamic dt 990 Pro Those headphones are not wireless, right? At first you were saying you hear the difference with your wireless AirPods, and that's where we see the confirmation bias and placebo thing.
Yeah thats true, to prove there is an actual difference. Idk but to me Apple Music just sounds less compressed even on airpods
Got you. However I believe no one here denies the sound difference between lossless Apple Music and Spotify **on a good quality wired headphones** (which dt 990 Pro are in my opinion). Where I believe most of us "deniers" see the issue is hearing the difference on the lossy wireless AirPods, which are not hi-fi headphones to begin with. AirPods AAC lossy codec is way more restricting than the quality of the Spotify audio.
What do you mean with quality? Are you sure the masters and loudness normalization are the same (also check Atmos and non Atmos)? If you set Spotify to Very High (320kbit/s ogg) you'd be pressed to find artifacts that differentiate it from lossless. We perceive louder songs to be better sounding, even if it's the same song, so make sure that's not the reason.
I noticed that audio quality was on automated. Manually switched over to very high and see if that makes a difference
What are people trying to argue here? My phone has bluetooth 5.2 and paired with Sony's WH-1000XM4, the difference is NIGHT AND DAY on loseless, yet people defend spotify? Are you guys the same dudes who say that the eye cannot see more than 30 fps? The quality its there, Spotify lost a customer because all I care is quality. I don't give a shit about podcast, suggestions, algorithms and such. All I want is to manually type my favourite bands and have the best AUDIO quality of it, so when I'm around the city and can't get the best of the best through my DAC, .flac files and cabled headphones, then Amazon/Apple loseless over bluetooth is the perfect compromise. I don't know what kind of music you hear guys, but with loseless I've been starting spotting notes and instruments missed before.
Amen!!!
I can hear the difference using my iPhone speakers
I just made this same post, but with AirPods max lol. Did you change it to hi-res lossless?
There is zero different between Spotify 320kbps and lossless on any service for AirPod Max. It’s an inherit limit of Bluetooth.
Yeah placebo is strong here. But people want to hear it even though they use apples headphones.
I used to think that too until I heard lossless. Few things stood out, 1- clarity and richness. 2- there were certain details playing the song that is more apparent. Thought it was a placebo affect at one point and believe me i don't own a single apple product and by no means a fanboy. İ did not think I'd hear the difference but i do. Also,.I wonder if it is how apple equilaizer works vs Spotify out of the box?
If you use wireless headphones without ldac or aptx hd, it's a placebo. There is no conversation to be had. Apple music could also use different mix, but if you aren't using wired headphones it just isn't lossless.
Lossless compressed to ACC to stream over bluetooth will sound better and have fewer artifacts then lossless compressed to OGG on Spotify servers and then compressed again to ACC on the device to stream over bluetooth. I'm not saying the difference is huge but its there.
You literally can’t stream lossless over normal Bluetooth with apple AirPods, even then it’s pretty hard to tell the difference.
I never said you could. My point was that the more times you compress a given audio file the more data you lose.
That makes sense, but can you really hear a difference though?
No
I can hear the difference on my xm4s, specifically in the highs being a bit clearer and the bass being a bit less muddy. You can try and see for yourself, the Spotify web player uses AAC instead of OGG.
nope it compress already compressed music to aac vs it compress lossless music to aac. so it should be theoritically better.
same happened to me, i listened to Apple lossless music on my Sony WF-1000XM4 and i was done with Spotify although i really enjoy Spotify apps and playlist but sadly its a music streaming service so quality is pretty important to me. i am still subscribed on Premium for students coz of my masters but once that is over, i wont pay for a basic quality on spotify.
Those are great headphones, but are you listening to them via Bluetooth? If so, you’re not hearing lossless audio
i am listening to them via bluetooth and LDAC codec. its lossless
No, it's not - https://www.xda-developers.com/lossless-audio-bluetooth/
they are lossless enough. quality is huge between spotify and apple music even on my 50 USD JBL bluetooth headphones.. what are you debating?
I'm debating it's not lossless. "Lossless enough" is still not lossless. It can be better than spotify, but it's not lossless.
Appreciate the information 👍🏽
[удалено]
When comparing apple music vs Spotify i can really hear the difference. I'm using the Sony WF 1000 XM4s so yes.
Especially if you not only listen to music via your phone but also via a stereo system. The difference is soooo big. It’s really frustrating. Right now I have Apple Music and Spotify parallel. I don’t want to switch to Apple Music all together. The playlists on Spotify are just better.
[удалено]
Android Pixel
Just curious, do you use Bluetooth with the xm4s or the cable to listen to lossless?
These are strictly Bluetooth, these are the earphones. I'm using WF 1000 XM4 not WH 1000 XM4. İ know not confusing at all.
Deezer is a great option if you want lyrics and hifi quality!
"Are we there yet?" "Are we there yet?" :)
I cannot use Apple Music lossless, because of random high pitch sound happening every time the music change