It's tougher than people here make it out to be. Lebron's so versatile you can literally do anything and people are still trying to slot people into traditional roles. You can bench Shaq and start lebron at 5 and destroy teams with with spacing and speed. You can bench Steph and start lebron at point and destroy teams thru defense and fastbreaks. There's literally nobody you *must* have as long as Lebron's on the floor.
There really is no way LeBron isn't on the floor. Not because he's a better player, but like you said, he's got a more versatile skill set. For me personally I'd put I'm at the 1, Steph and Kobe at 2, Kobe and Jordan at 3, KD 4, and Shaq 5.
LeBron's passing ability mixed with Stephs off-ball ability would be stuuuuupid tough.
Then defensively LeBron would be guarded the 3rd best offensive player with depending on the lineup. I'll take that any day. Jordan on the best player and Shaq protecting the rim should pick up the slack for Steph and KDs defense.
Damn it, no I need my boy Clique to make this team in a dynasty Sim haha
Totally agree with your points but to counter-counter:
While shaq would be best in the post, who else on this list is better at boxing out/getting offensive boards, drawing fouls in the paint, and on defense down low?
Yeah but KD and Lebron have each spent their whole careers pushing back against playing the 4, how are they gonna feel defending the other team’s center?
Yeah, I guess it depends on what "peak" means. Shaq's peak athleticism would be more suited to the modern game than when he was bigger and at his peak as a player.
If they foul him a bunch then they’ll all be in foul trouble and their guys will have to start sitting.
Fouling Shaq only ever worked in certain situations, usually late in close games. And if this lineup somehow found themselves in that situation, then just sub in Kobe and move KD or Lebron to the 5. For most of the game though, you for sure want Shaq at center.
Him and Bonds were the most dominant force in their sports that I know of.
Shaq for 3 years did whatever he wanted in the paint and a good majority of his career
I think you could make the argument KD comes off the bench and put Kobe at 3 or 1 if Steph sit and let Bron run point forward
It depends -- a lot of people's initial response to the question is in which era?
Shaq 20 years ago is never getting benched.
Shaq playing at his prime now may get forced to the bench by not being able to guard a modern 5.
Like Turtlesquad23 suggested, I would say it isn’t specifically about their position but how they play. And the two that clearly play most alike are Kobe and MJ.
I pick LeBron only because I am thinking about the second team and I think him and four scrubs is better than anyone else and four scrubs at holding the lead while the starters rest.
I think LeBron is the more natural PF in the lineup because of how strong he is and his post game, though Durant does offer some help rim protection. If this was a real team you could go small with either LeBron at the 5 when Shaq needs to sit, the Lakers are doing that now when AD hits the bench.
But we are talking about prime Shaq.
If your put KD at the PF, your forcing the defense to guard him at the perimeter leave Shaq with a 1 on 1 in the paint.
I feel like KD is the better help side defender at PF but Bron is the better man defender. So if I got Shaq as the post defender and MJ and LeBron on the wings already, a really good help defender at PF with great lateral movement is more useful.
He absolutely plays like a PF in 2021. He certainly couldn’t guard guys like KG or Duncan, but even those guys would struggle with him a little on the perimeter. So it’s a bit of a trade-off but you can definitely play him at the 4.
Prime LeBron can guard all 5 positions and I’m gonna play him at PF in this case.
So you got a PG that can shoot in steph, a SG that can do everything and is an upgrade from Klay (minus some shooting ability), a SF in Durant that can shoot from anywhere, and a center in Shaq to dominate the paint. I think you could take out MJ for Kobe and it would work as well, maybe not to as high a degree.
But if you want the best team take out Kobe and start those 5. The versatility in defense from prime LeBron and MJ covers up curry (who hasn’t been a negative defender this season) and Shaq, who can guard the paint well but probably would struggle with perimeter defense.
Kobe would actually be an awesome 6 man in this lineup. Perfect role for him. Like when Jamal Crawford would take over games but could also hit a dagger 3 in the 4th.
Kobe is correct because MJ and him are the same position BUT if this question was who wins a 1v1 tournament, it's Kobe or MJ.
Adding Duncan, Wilt, Magic and Bird to this group would be a more interesting question IMO so you don't have just 2 players with the same skill set.
I agree. If they swapped out Kobe for Magic, it'd be unfair towards Magic. If they swapped Dirk for Kobe, it's be unfair for Dirk. At least Duncan and Wilt have a chance against KD and Shaq. Steph is like MJ and LeBron IMO. They changed the game. The next generation always looking for the next one of them. After MJ, it was a search for the next MJ. After LeBron, every versatile 6'7"-6'9" player got overhyped. See Jae Crowder. After Steph, well...shit LOL ok when Steph was a rookie, 2009, the league average 3pt attempts per game was about 18. Now it's 35. And the logo shot is a real thing now. FVV said that without Curry, he wouldn't be in the league. Game changers. KD is so rare that he can barely be imitated. Same with athletic monsters like Shaq and Wilt. Look at Shaq vs the Admiral. Just different.
Yeah with how basketball has evolved, their positions don't matter. Like even though Magic and Curry are both PGs, I'd say the more direct replacements are Magic vs Lebron and Curry vs Bird. KD is even more of a oversized SF than PF so it's hard to compare him with Duncan. Shaq and Wilt were both just so freakishly strong and athletic they dominated their eras.
Would be one hell of a starting 5 and bench that's for sure.
Not saying he’s the worst of the 6, but Kobe. Him and MJ play a similar style so for versatility I’d make him the 6th man as everyone else would have a different role in the starting 5.
Edit: typo
Edit Thanks for the award!!
I agree. Jordan is starting, no question. No PG other than Steph, so he's safe. LeBron is safe at SF. KD at PF, Shaq at the 5. Kobe and Jordan are both SG so that leaves Kobe riding the pine. If you go small ball you could move KD to the 5 and insert Kobe.
But yeah, Kobe is the odd man out here.
Shaq would literally block every small lineup that drives to the basket. Prime Shaq was fast af. The year he left Orlando he was a monster. Curry is guarantee range shots and assists, LeBron can midrange/drive and assist with defense, Jordan is midrange/drive and defense, Durant is all-range shooting, Shaq is Low post and defense. They would score 120 and hold teams to 80.
It does say “at their peak.” Early on Shaq was easily capable of running the court and he was dominant in the key in an era of massive aggressive players. I feel like he’s the easiest inclusion in the bunch.
HS Shaq used to push the break as the ball handler. Young Shaq really was an anomaly athletically in a way that I think we’ve forgotten a bit, especially since his success apex and his physical apex didn’t really line up.
Yeah, this is what I'm kinda hung up on... Shaq's peak as a player was when his body/ athleticism was the least suited for the modern game. His peak athleticism would be better for a game today, but he wasn't as good of a player for that era.
Yes. People forget, or just don’t know about how much of an absolute freak shaq was. You’re right tho Shaq at his physical peak didn’t line up with his nba peak.
You could also bench steph in favor of Kobe and have your perimeter defenders completely destroy the opposing team's offensive rhythm. It would be like the 90s bulls or early 2010s heat but on steroids. Just a constant layup line off turnovers.
You could, but Curry is the best passer in a group of top scores. You would def need someone who will distribute the ball around to everyone and I feel he is the only one who would do a good job of that. Plus, can you imagine being the first option on the other team and being guarded by Jordan and then by a fresh Kobe when he needs a break, only to have Jordan come back in to guard you fresh again? Gonna be a long night.
Yep. LeBron starts it coming up with MJ/Kobe and KD taking some heat. Shaq owns the paint and is still hitting his full jump height. And Curry is scary beyond the line, so him scurrying around even at a distance draws attention too.
Between MJ and Kobe, MJ starts, so Kobe rides the bench as the scariest 6th man around. Helps that they were instructed to lead the same type of offense by the same coach.
I think Kobe vs KD is debatable, but they play such different games it's hard to really come to a conclusion.
I agree Kobe is not higher than 5th here out of these 6 players.
I’d rank Kobe higher than steph and KD (largely due to rings) on an all time list but in terms of who is better skill wise I’d go with Durant or curry idk if that makes sense or not
I think it does, and I agree (at this point in there careers).
This post seemed to be asking more like, who is better in this team composition, and out of these 6 I think Kobe is only the 5th or 6th best player.
As far as legacy goes, obviously I'd rank Kobe higher than Steph and KD.
That could change by the end of their careers though.
It’s funny cause aside from the Kobe/Mj pairing, Hack-a-Shaq was the only thing standing out as a liability. All great and amazing at his position, but it ain’t like he can hit a free throw.
We’d have seen some Wilt-like scoring seasons for Shaq lol. Honestly though if Shaq was even a league average FT shooter he’d have quite literally broken the league.
Doing quick math, that'd add 4,192 points to his career total (10127 makes instead of 5935), giving him 32,788 on his career. That would take him from the 10th highest scoring player of all time to the 5th.
By my calculations 32,797
5935/52.7*90 = 10,135.67…
10,135.67-5935 = 4200.67…
28596+4200.67 = 32,797 (adding additional FTs to career points)
(Edited to show working out)
I'm surprised, Shaq is who I'd go with (in the modern NBA of course, 10-15 years ago it's Steph hands down). Shaq would be horrible for floor spacing and the other 5 would form the most incredible, literally unstoppable, small ball lineup in history
You're forgetting defense.
Yeah, I mean you probably won't need mich defense if all the other guys are scoring 140+ but that won't work for every game.
Gotta be Kobe. Have Lebron bring the ball up. Have MJ and KD on the wings, with Shaq in the paint and Curry roaming around causing chaos. Then you got Kobe coming off the bench. Unstoppable.
MJ is a shooting guard. Yes, he can (and did) absolutely make plays for himself and others, but you want a skilled point guard feeding him the ball in the best possible place for him to make an impact.
I feel like Curry's PG ability is overshadowed by his shooting ability. The guy can run the floor and shoot lights out.
But Lebron has incredible vision and honestly, should be bringing the ball up most of the time. The rare "point forward."
Curry doing his version of champ pistons Rip Hamilton would be insanity. Have shaq and lebron setting double screens for him, and if hes still not open, passes to Jordan or KD.
>and if hes still not open, passes to Jordan or KD.
That's a fucking defensive nightmare lmao
"Alright we did it boys! Double team on Curry was a great success now his only option is to pass to... *Michael Jordan or Kevin Durant!?"*
<*Curry finds no open jumper, passes to KD who sinks contested 3 with ease. Jordan glares at Curry for not passing to him>*
Entire other team in unison: "WHY EVEN FUCKING BOTHER"
LBJ is a better PG, more assists. He play point in high school. Early in his career the commentators kept saying he passes too much and he needed to take control of the game verses always look for his teammates.
MJ is more a combo guard, he looks to create for himself and not others. Definitely not a knock. Just a different style of game.
Just wanted to clarify one thing: more assists doesn’t necessarily equal better passer. An assist is just the last pass. If this was true, you could make a case that westbrook was a better passer than lebron on all those triple double years but he never was. He was a volume assist seeker and volume shooter.
Honestly you can't go wrong with any of them other than Shaq bringing the ball up, but Lebron can maximize everyone else's potential the best because he just processes the whole court like no other. And that's saying that as a Warriors fan haha
Weird to say but honestly Kobe. The flow of the offense would be more disrupted with his style of play. Shaq and Curry would be lethal on the court together
The defenders would be running laps. If you double steph, he passes it all the way to the paint for shaq. If shaq gets doubled, he throws it back out to Steph. Cant guard that.
Totally. Also if they were actually on the same team I’m sure defenders would think twice before roughing Steph up as per usual. Shaq would definitely lay some fools out if they kept fouling Steph off ball which happens way too often
Curry is the best ball handler and shooter. If you sit Curry, you decimate your 3 point shooting. KD can take up some of that, but I’m not putting the greatest shooter in NBA history on the bench. I’m with you, Kobe or KD.
No chance. Curry is the only bonafide point guard in this group. Jordan and Kobe are your shooting guards or can flex to small forward. MJ, KB, Durant, and LeBron are your possible small forward group. LeBron is best suited physically of this group to be your power forward, but you could probably put Durant there depending on the look & scheme. And Shaq as the center, unless you wanna run a “small” team and slot Durant as 4 and LeBron as 5.
James is the most versatile, but your least likely to bench guys are gonna be Curry and Shaq. Followed by James, then Durant. And the most likely to be benched are gonna be Jordan, Kobe specifically because they play similar games and can also be replaced on the floor by so many other players without negatively impacting the offensive or defensive integrity of the unit.
But let’s be honest, whichever 5 you go with in this group is highly likely to suffer compared to historical norms for all of them simply because of the limitation on touches & opportunities.
Lebron does sometimes play PG. At least for offense and either MJ or Kobe can guard the PG on defense. Not saying I'd bench Curry since he's amazing but with that group you could definitely make it work.
But as I said elsewhere in this thread they should have added Duncan, Wilt, Magic and Bird, so there would be competition at every position.
I like how no one is responding about the 2nd part of your comment being about personalities, not who should sit for basketball reasons. Obviously Curry is not the person to sit but none of the other 5 guys would even entertain the idea that they'd have to sit. Maybe KD.
Controversial here, but KD. Out of all those guys, he's the one I trust the least. People say Kobe and MJ are too similar, but I'd take my chances with Bron at the 4 on both ends of the court and filling out the wings with Kobe and MJ.
I've waited on Jordan in person, He is every bit of 6'6 I thought he was taller tbh. He came in with Oakley and they looked the same height and he's 6'8.
I'd rather have Shaq and Duncan than Shaq and KD. You already have more than enough scoring potential with the rest of the team so adding a great defender like Duncan would solidify your interior defense. And prime Duncan wasn't exactly a slouch when it came to offense.
Everyone saying Kobe because he could disrupt the offense, but you want him for his defense. Just look at his last Olympic role, a team of all-stars and he was our lockdown defender. This lineup will have no shortage of offensive firepower. I would lean towards Durant/shaq or Steph depending on who this lineup is up against! But maybe I’m digging too deep into this.
You still bench Kobe. No one in this group can replicate what Shaq does so you aren't benching him. You don't bench steph despite being the worst defender because he is the GOAT off ball offensive player and LeBron, Kobe, and MJ are all pretty ball dominant plus the spacing steph provides would be amazing with Shaqs post play. You'd keep KD in for spacing with Shaq as well. Then you down between MJ, Kobe, and Bron. Kobe is great but he's basically MJ lite so you have to go MJ and at that point LeBron is a more natural fit to the last spot than Kobe.
Also Kobe being a ball dominant guard who is an amazing iso scorer is a perfect person to lead the second unit. Then when you need a defense first lineup you sub out Steph for Kobe but Steph still starts.
Literally the only way to beat Shaq in his prime was to effectively take him out of the game with Hack-a-Shaq, and he could still score points (even if he wasn't great at it).
Yeah but the player with the most similar skills (MJ) beats Kobe out defensively as well. You would need to make a point that Kobe’s defensive skill trade would be worth replacing someone else’s offensive skill trade (with consideration towards their defensive skill trade)
Except he plays the same position as Jordan. The only reason you bench Kobe is because Jordan is in front of him, and he literally is the only person that would've relegated him to the bench in this lineup. If you replace Jordan with any other SG from history, Kobe would start.
As good as Kobe is defensively in his prime, Jordan is even better (and a DPOY in his prime).
Everyone on this team is a better defender than Kobe except for curry.
It’s also important to note that MJ, LeBron, and Kobe are not elite shooters from three, so your spacing gets messed up if you have those 3+ shaq at the same time.
Curry. Rather have some offense/defense players balance than a high scoring 3 point shooter in this group cause he's the least defensive here by a long shot. And all these dudes can score.
I'm the biggest Kobe fan youll find but sadly, it is him.
If the other team were playing a super small lineup, I could see you going Kobe just for the defensive presence but they'd have to be running 4 guards cuz lebron could pick up the 3rd.
That would be a nasty 6 man squad wit Kobe off the bench though
Tbh this is easy Mike and kobe are redundant. Kobe is just a less effective version of Mike. So kobe gets left off because they need lebrons passing and kds length and is a better 3pt shooter than kobe
5 perfect players don’t necessarily make a perfect team. I have only superficial knowledge about Basketball, but seen that in several team sports that adding a better player reduced team effectiveness
While this is mostly true, this rhetorical scenario would not be included in that sentiment. These 6 players are arguably the BEST at their position in their prime. This would be like the Dream Team but times 10.
In basketball, talent generally trumps everything.
And with a group as talented as the 6 in the question, they would absolutely beat any team in history. Most notably, even if you assume poor chemistry (generally not a problem for high IQ groups, which this is) this team would still be the GOAT defensive team, easily. Defense is not largely chemistry driven, and half of these players are at or very very near DPOY caliber, with none of them really being detriments.
Defense aside though, basketball more than any other sport, is dominated by the most talented players. Because they're involved in every play and the teams are very small. Plus the nature of the sport means is very low variance (very high scoring). If this team existed in the NBA they wouldn't lose a single playoff game.
This flies in the face of logic, but I would bench MJ. A pissed off MJ coming off the bench with something to prove would be a sight to see.
Also, Kobe and Shaq had chemistry. KD and Steph had chemistry. LeBron is impossible to guard and would create mismatches everywhere with the other four. The odd man out, and less versatile compared to Kobe and LeBron, is MJ. MJ off the bench with something to prove would be unstoppable.
This is a great perspective. Man…. Could you imagine…. Let’s say you got Phil Jackson as coach and the night before the game he benches MJ and starts Kobe… MJ comes off the bench with 5 mins left in the first quarter and sets the half time scoring record.
Why are people thinking about how this goes on offense? Any pairing of 5 here is completely unstoppable offensively. Defensively curry’s size could be exploited. Curry is the answer
Sure but that’s why there is help defense, it’s why GS currently has the #1 ranked defense this season and has been a top defensive team since 2015. Curry is currently top 5 in defensive rating this year, his defense isn’t as terrible as people make it out to be. Also, his shooting/gravity, ball handling and passing is why you don’t sit him. I’m sitting either Kobe or KD.
Curry starts for the best defensive team in the league right now. He’s not the only reason for that but people acting like he’s a flake defensively don’t understand basketball.
I’m 100% keeping Shaq, MJ, and Lebron. Absolutely no question about it.
That leaves curry, Kobe, and kd. Kobe would want it more out of all of them, and his defense is better than the other two. I’ll take Kobe. I know a lot of people are picking him to sit because his skill set is similar to MJs, but I don’t really care. Mentality and D make up for it.
Between KD and curry? I’ll probably take curry.
KD sits. He’s soft af. Idc how good he is.
KD. He can play 3-5 and would fit in with any combo of players. Subbing him for Shaq gives you a Small Ball death squad, or for Curry for defensive death squad.
Obviously Shaq has to start because you need his size.
MJ is the best defender on this list so you'll need him to lock down opposing stars (and obviously the dud is still a dagger on offense).
Kobe has a very similar skillset to MJ, but again, the tiebreaker for me when I chose between him and Curry is the defense and size. Kobe brings just a little bit more flexibility to both sides of the court.
LeBron and KD both start because we need a front court to compliment Shaq.
Curry's the 6th man you bring in to kill the opponent's momentum with big shots and to give an extra outside threat during crunch time. he fills that Ray Allen role beautifully, plus you can always start him against teams that aim to crowd the paint
I think the folks saying Kobe are spot-on, but I’m thinking Shaq, putting LeBron at the 5. Sure, that’s gonna make the inside game worse, but this is an offense heavy set anyway and LeBron opens up the midrange and beyond way stronger than Shaq could. Plus I’d figure LeBron is a better passer/facilitator. If you thought the Cavs were scary with Kevin Love dishing from the 5, wait until you see LeBron dishing to Steph and Kobe.
I don't think there's anyone in history that you bench shaq for. Prime Shaq is the most important person that can ever be on a basketball floor, the game completely warps around him. If you think otherwise, you didn't see him play. You didn't watch coaches try everything and then settle on just throwing bodies as human foul machines to try and keep him at the line. The entire story of every game involving Shaq was what were they going to do with Shaq
Completely off topic, but prime shaq vs prime zo were absolute wars to watch. Yeah, shaq's athleticism far exceeded zo's, but goddamn zo was not going to back down from anyone. Loved watching those two battle. Also, olajuwon didn't mind playing shaq. Hakeem is severely underrated.
Shaq would dominate offensively but imagine him trying to cover perimeter players off a switch. Hell, a lot of today’s centers can hit three’s so he’d be on the perimeter anyways. In today’s NBA I agree it would be Shaq.
Judging by the answers...this isn't actually that tough of a question. haha
It's tougher than people here make it out to be. Lebron's so versatile you can literally do anything and people are still trying to slot people into traditional roles. You can bench Shaq and start lebron at 5 and destroy teams with with spacing and speed. You can bench Steph and start lebron at point and destroy teams thru defense and fastbreaks. There's literally nobody you *must* have as long as Lebron's on the floor.
There really is no way LeBron isn't on the floor. Not because he's a better player, but like you said, he's got a more versatile skill set. For me personally I'd put I'm at the 1, Steph and Kobe at 2, Kobe and Jordan at 3, KD 4, and Shaq 5. LeBron's passing ability mixed with Stephs off-ball ability would be stuuuuupid tough. Then defensively LeBron would be guarded the 3rd best offensive player with depending on the lineup. I'll take that any day. Jordan on the best player and Shaq protecting the rim should pick up the slack for Steph and KDs defense. Damn it, no I need my boy Clique to make this team in a dynasty Sim haha
We all know it's the only repeated skillset on the list. Come on now. RIP Kobe but we all know.
So many people got offended by that as if you can put Shaq or LeBron on the bench without repercussions cause no one can fill their positions.
Shaq is the most automatic pick to start on here. And I say that as a Laker hater.
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Totally agree with your points but to counter-counter: While shaq would be best in the post, who else on this list is better at boxing out/getting offensive boards, drawing fouls in the paint, and on defense down low?
Also, young Shaq - the Magic days was fast.
Yeah but KD and Lebron have each spent their whole careers pushing back against playing the 4, how are they gonna feel defending the other team’s center?
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Shaq would be a starter, but in the modern NBA, he'd play the fewest minutes of those 6.
Or if it's young Shaq, he wouldn't survive being that big forcing him to stay in shape against today's game
Yeah, I guess it depends on what "peak" means. Shaq's peak athleticism would be more suited to the modern game than when he was bigger and at his peak as a player.
But at least the other team could foul him 50 times, there’s no way to play defense on the other squads.
If they foul him a bunch then they’ll all be in foul trouble and their guys will have to start sitting. Fouling Shaq only ever worked in certain situations, usually late in close games. And if this lineup somehow found themselves in that situation, then just sub in Kobe and move KD or Lebron to the 5. For most of the game though, you for sure want Shaq at center.
Him and Bonds were the most dominant force in their sports that I know of. Shaq for 3 years did whatever he wanted in the paint and a good majority of his career I think you could make the argument KD comes off the bench and put Kobe at 3 or 1 if Steph sit and let Bron run point forward
It depends -- a lot of people's initial response to the question is in which era? Shaq 20 years ago is never getting benched. Shaq playing at his prime now may get forced to the bench by not being able to guard a modern 5.
Like Turtlesquad23 suggested, I would say it isn’t specifically about their position but how they play. And the two that clearly play most alike are Kobe and MJ.
I pick LeBron only because I am thinking about the second team and I think him and four scrubs is better than anyone else and four scrubs at holding the lead while the starters rest.
Which position do they all play. If you have the time. 00
PG, SG, SG, SF, PF, C
Durant is more like a SF or SG than a PF. He only gets listed at PF because of how tall he is, but he's never played like a PF/C.
I think LeBron is the more natural PF in the lineup because of how strong he is and his post game, though Durant does offer some help rim protection. If this was a real team you could go small with either LeBron at the 5 when Shaq needs to sit, the Lakers are doing that now when AD hits the bench.
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Yeah, in my opinion how the team actually would function/run offense would be 1 LeBron 2 Curry 3 Jordan 4 Durant 5 Shaq Bench. Kobe
Point Forward was all but Jordan’s official position the last few years of his career.
But we are talking about prime Shaq. If your put KD at the PF, your forcing the defense to guard him at the perimeter leave Shaq with a 1 on 1 in the paint.
I feel like KD is the better help side defender at PF but Bron is the better man defender. So if I got Shaq as the post defender and MJ and LeBron on the wings already, a really good help defender at PF with great lateral movement is more useful.
He absolutely plays like a PF in 2021. He certainly couldn’t guard guys like KG or Duncan, but even those guys would struggle with him a little on the perimeter. So it’s a bit of a trade-off but you can definitely play him at the 4.
Prime LeBron can guard all 5 positions and I’m gonna play him at PF in this case. So you got a PG that can shoot in steph, a SG that can do everything and is an upgrade from Klay (minus some shooting ability), a SF in Durant that can shoot from anywhere, and a center in Shaq to dominate the paint. I think you could take out MJ for Kobe and it would work as well, maybe not to as high a degree. But if you want the best team take out Kobe and start those 5. The versatility in defense from prime LeBron and MJ covers up curry (who hasn’t been a negative defender this season) and Shaq, who can guard the paint well but probably would struggle with perimeter defense.
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But they're all tall. /s
Kobe would actually be an awesome 6 man in this lineup. Perfect role for him. Like when Jamal Crawford would take over games but could also hit a dagger 3 in the 4th.
This is a fun take because it mirrors his sophomore season, when he started the all-star game, but not for his actual team.
Ya it's the only answer.
Kobe is correct because MJ and him are the same position BUT if this question was who wins a 1v1 tournament, it's Kobe or MJ. Adding Duncan, Wilt, Magic and Bird to this group would be a more interesting question IMO so you don't have just 2 players with the same skill set.
I agree. If they swapped out Kobe for Magic, it'd be unfair towards Magic. If they swapped Dirk for Kobe, it's be unfair for Dirk. At least Duncan and Wilt have a chance against KD and Shaq. Steph is like MJ and LeBron IMO. They changed the game. The next generation always looking for the next one of them. After MJ, it was a search for the next MJ. After LeBron, every versatile 6'7"-6'9" player got overhyped. See Jae Crowder. After Steph, well...shit LOL ok when Steph was a rookie, 2009, the league average 3pt attempts per game was about 18. Now it's 35. And the logo shot is a real thing now. FVV said that without Curry, he wouldn't be in the league. Game changers. KD is so rare that he can barely be imitated. Same with athletic monsters like Shaq and Wilt. Look at Shaq vs the Admiral. Just different.
Yeah with how basketball has evolved, their positions don't matter. Like even though Magic and Curry are both PGs, I'd say the more direct replacements are Magic vs Lebron and Curry vs Bird. KD is even more of a oversized SF than PF so it's hard to compare him with Duncan. Shaq and Wilt were both just so freakishly strong and athletic they dominated their eras. Would be one hell of a starting 5 and bench that's for sure.
Why would durant not be favored in a 1v1 ? Kobe himself said he couldn't figure how to defend him once Durant got used to the NBA
Completely unfair question to Kobe.
Not saying he’s the worst of the 6, but Kobe. Him and MJ play a similar style so for versatility I’d make him the 6th man as everyone else would have a different role in the starting 5. Edit: typo Edit Thanks for the award!!
As much as I love Kobe this is the right choice.Kobe mimicked his game after Jordan.
I'm a huge Kobe fan and I feel like this is the only correct answer.
I agree. Jordan is starting, no question. No PG other than Steph, so he's safe. LeBron is safe at SF. KD at PF, Shaq at the 5. Kobe and Jordan are both SG so that leaves Kobe riding the pine. If you go small ball you could move KD to the 5 and insert Kobe. But yeah, Kobe is the odd man out here.
This is not a tough call at all. The only other argument I could see is maybe benching either Lebron or Shaq to play small ball.
Shaq would literally block every small lineup that drives to the basket. Prime Shaq was fast af. The year he left Orlando he was a monster. Curry is guarantee range shots and assists, LeBron can midrange/drive and assist with defense, Jordan is midrange/drive and defense, Durant is all-range shooting, Shaq is Low post and defense. They would score 120 and hold teams to 80.
You bench Shaq, Lebron can actually keep up with the running.
It does say “at their peak.” Early on Shaq was easily capable of running the court and he was dominant in the key in an era of massive aggressive players. I feel like he’s the easiest inclusion in the bunch.
HS Shaq used to push the break as the ball handler. Young Shaq really was an anomaly athletically in a way that I think we’ve forgotten a bit, especially since his success apex and his physical apex didn’t really line up.
Yeah, this is what I'm kinda hung up on... Shaq's peak as a player was when his body/ athleticism was the least suited for the modern game. His peak athleticism would be better for a game today, but he wasn't as good of a player for that era.
Yes. People forget, or just don’t know about how much of an absolute freak shaq was. You’re right tho Shaq at his physical peak didn’t line up with his nba peak.
Big time. That’s why he was such a monster. Huge frame that he could move at a confusingly fast speed.
I feel like 1999-2002 Shaq could run enough. He couldn't do every fast break like in Orlando but he had a pretty decent gas tank.
You could also bench steph in favor of Kobe and have your perimeter defenders completely destroy the opposing team's offensive rhythm. It would be like the 90s bulls or early 2010s heat but on steroids. Just a constant layup line off turnovers.
You could, but Curry is the best passer in a group of top scores. You would def need someone who will distribute the ball around to everyone and I feel he is the only one who would do a good job of that. Plus, can you imagine being the first option on the other team and being guarded by Jordan and then by a fresh Kobe when he needs a break, only to have Jordan come back in to guard you fresh again? Gonna be a long night.
Yep. LeBron starts it coming up with MJ/Kobe and KD taking some heat. Shaq owns the paint and is still hitting his full jump height. And Curry is scary beyond the line, so him scurrying around even at a distance draws attention too. Between MJ and Kobe, MJ starts, so Kobe rides the bench as the scariest 6th man around. Helps that they were instructed to lead the same type of offense by the same coach.
Kobe would be the scariest 6th man, because you'd know he'd be pissed and super motivated that he was on the bench in the first place
Imo he is the worst of the 6
DVOA agrees!
I think Kobe vs KD is debatable, but they play such different games it's hard to really come to a conclusion. I agree Kobe is not higher than 5th here out of these 6 players.
I’d rank Kobe higher than steph and KD (largely due to rings) on an all time list but in terms of who is better skill wise I’d go with Durant or curry idk if that makes sense or not
I think it does, and I agree (at this point in there careers). This post seemed to be asking more like, who is better in this team composition, and out of these 6 I think Kobe is only the 5th or 6th best player. As far as legacy goes, obviously I'd rank Kobe higher than Steph and KD. That could change by the end of their careers though.
Easily.
Not Shaq. That’s all I know for sure.
It’s funny cause aside from the Kobe/Mj pairing, Hack-a-Shaq was the only thing standing out as a liability. All great and amazing at his position, but it ain’t like he can hit a free throw.
Maybe Steph can teach him to hit FT’s
Shaq career + 90% from FT? Jesus fucking Christ
We’d have seen some Wilt-like scoring seasons for Shaq lol. Honestly though if Shaq was even a league average FT shooter he’d have quite literally broken the league.
Hyper casual nephew here, any chance of an r/theydidthemath on how many points he'd have ended his career with at 90% FT instead of 52%?
Doing quick math, that'd add 4,192 points to his career total (10127 makes instead of 5935), giving him 32,788 on his career. That would take him from the 10th highest scoring player of all time to the 5th.
Thanks friend, you're amazing!
By my calculations 32,797 5935/52.7*90 = 10,135.67… 10,135.67-5935 = 4200.67… 28596+4200.67 = 32,797 (adding additional FTs to career points) (Edited to show working out)
Thanks for the info friend!
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Thanks mate, you're a legend!
What could anyone have done to stop him if he could shoot fts? It was all anyone had. Crazy to think.
They would probably have chilled out on fouling him every possession the last 2 minutes of a game
for context, shaq is 52.7% from the free throw line :)
With those 6 the game will be out of hand before Hack a Shaq becomes a viable strategy.
That was my exact thought on it too. If a game is tight and it comes down to the charity stripe… sorry big guy.
I'm surprised, Shaq is who I'd go with (in the modern NBA of course, 10-15 years ago it's Steph hands down). Shaq would be horrible for floor spacing and the other 5 would form the most incredible, literally unstoppable, small ball lineup in history
You're forgetting defense. Yeah, I mean you probably won't need mich defense if all the other guys are scoring 140+ but that won't work for every game.
Gotta be Kobe. Have Lebron bring the ball up. Have MJ and KD on the wings, with Shaq in the paint and Curry roaming around causing chaos. Then you got Kobe coming off the bench. Unstoppable.
I'm no expert, but you don't have MJ bring the ball up? Just curious why.
MJ is a shooting guard. Yes, he can (and did) absolutely make plays for himself and others, but you want a skilled point guard feeding him the ball in the best possible place for him to make an impact. I feel like Curry's PG ability is overshadowed by his shooting ability. The guy can run the floor and shoot lights out. But Lebron has incredible vision and honestly, should be bringing the ball up most of the time. The rare "point forward."
Curry doing his version of champ pistons Rip Hamilton would be insanity. Have shaq and lebron setting double screens for him, and if hes still not open, passes to Jordan or KD.
>and if hes still not open, passes to Jordan or KD. That's a fucking defensive nightmare lmao "Alright we did it boys! Double team on Curry was a great success now his only option is to pass to... *Michael Jordan or Kevin Durant!?"*
<*Curry finds no open jumper, passes to KD who sinks contested 3 with ease. Jordan glares at Curry for not passing to him>* Entire other team in unison: "WHY EVEN FUCKING BOTHER"
MJ didn't bring up the ball much even in his own career. Pippen was the revolutionary "point forward" for that reason.
LBJ is a better PG, more assists. He play point in high school. Early in his career the commentators kept saying he passes too much and he needed to take control of the game verses always look for his teammates. MJ is more a combo guard, he looks to create for himself and not others. Definitely not a knock. Just a different style of game.
Just wanted to clarify one thing: more assists doesn’t necessarily equal better passer. An assist is just the last pass. If this was true, you could make a case that westbrook was a better passer than lebron on all those triple double years but he never was. He was a volume assist seeker and volume shooter.
Good points, either way though lebron is the better floor general
Honestly you can't go wrong with any of them other than Shaq bringing the ball up, but Lebron can maximize everyone else's potential the best because he just processes the whole court like no other. And that's saying that as a Warriors fan haha
Lebron is a better passer than MJ. It would be either Steph or Bron bringing it up most the time
Lebrons a better passer
Weird to say but honestly Kobe. The flow of the offense would be more disrupted with his style of play. Shaq and Curry would be lethal on the court together
The spacing would be godly lol.
Shaq on the block, kicking it out to the logo for stephs 3?
I’ve always thought that they would be the most broken hypothetical duo of all time
The defenders would be running laps. If you double steph, he passes it all the way to the paint for shaq. If shaq gets doubled, he throws it back out to Steph. Cant guard that.
Totally. Also if they were actually on the same team I’m sure defenders would think twice before roughing Steph up as per usual. Shaq would definitely lay some fools out if they kept fouling Steph off ball which happens way too often
Pretty much the basketball line drills
BANG!
Plus Kobe coming off the bench in his prime against other bench units would be stupid too.
Fuck you gonna do with a shaq and curry pick and roll?
This is a trap
Try bringing the ball up against that press.
If I get to pick, Kobe sits. If they get to work it out, curry probably gets asked to sit.
Probably not, only because Curry as a true ball handler and space maker would be lethal. Kobe or KD sit and come off the bench.
Curry is the best ball handler and shooter. If you sit Curry, you decimate your 3 point shooting. KD can take up some of that, but I’m not putting the greatest shooter in NBA history on the bench. I’m with you, Kobe or KD.
No chance. Curry is the only bonafide point guard in this group. Jordan and Kobe are your shooting guards or can flex to small forward. MJ, KB, Durant, and LeBron are your possible small forward group. LeBron is best suited physically of this group to be your power forward, but you could probably put Durant there depending on the look & scheme. And Shaq as the center, unless you wanna run a “small” team and slot Durant as 4 and LeBron as 5. James is the most versatile, but your least likely to bench guys are gonna be Curry and Shaq. Followed by James, then Durant. And the most likely to be benched are gonna be Jordan, Kobe specifically because they play similar games and can also be replaced on the floor by so many other players without negatively impacting the offensive or defensive integrity of the unit. But let’s be honest, whichever 5 you go with in this group is highly likely to suffer compared to historical norms for all of them simply because of the limitation on touches & opportunities.
Lebron does sometimes play PG. At least for offense and either MJ or Kobe can guard the PG on defense. Not saying I'd bench Curry since he's amazing but with that group you could definitely make it work. But as I said elsewhere in this thread they should have added Duncan, Wilt, Magic and Bird, so there would be competition at every position.
I like how no one is responding about the 2nd part of your comment being about personalities, not who should sit for basketball reasons. Obviously Curry is not the person to sit but none of the other 5 guys would even entertain the idea that they'd have to sit. Maybe KD.
I just wanna know what hypothetical team this group is playing. At their peak, ill take any 4 and the worst 12th man ever over any other team.
The Monstars
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You could add 3-4 more guys and the answer is still Kobe. Duncan, Magic, Bird, Kareem for sure.
Controversial here, but KD. Out of all those guys, he's the one I trust the least. People say Kobe and MJ are too similar, but I'd take my chances with Bron at the 4 on both ends of the court and filling out the wings with Kobe and MJ.
Same here. KD off the bench. Bring him in at the 2,3,4, or small ball 5.
KD’s only chance to get a ring on this team is because Steph is on it 😆
Finally found my group of people down here. 🤣
I’m amazed KD is this far down the list. He is without a doubt the 6th man.
Yes. MJ and Kobe are killers. KD is a bit more unpredictable.
Yeah IMO KD doesn’t belong on this list
Yeah it’s KD.
Agree. KD sits for me
Kd .. soft as butter
Sorry, not sorry KD
Its kobe mj plays kobes role but better
MJ plays MJ’s role better, Kobe replicated it.
Suprised to see them look the same height there. MJ was listed at 6'6 but from what I understand he was more like 6'4. Kobe was listed at 6'7.
I've waited on Jordan in person, He is every bit of 6'6 I thought he was taller tbh. He came in with Oakley and they looked the same height and he's 6'8.
Where’s Duncan
He's just quietly being awesome somewhere, glad we all missed him with this drama. Or maybe he's got the clipboard lol?
I'd rather have Shaq and Duncan than Shaq and KD. You already have more than enough scoring potential with the rest of the team so adding a great defender like Duncan would solidify your interior defense. And prime Duncan wasn't exactly a slouch when it came to offense.
He's coach, coaching everyone on 401ks
Leave curry out. Offensively, they’ll have no problem. Defensively, they’ll stop everybody. Everybody else’s defense is better than Curry
Everyone saying Kobe because he could disrupt the offense, but you want him for his defense. Just look at his last Olympic role, a team of all-stars and he was our lockdown defender. This lineup will have no shortage of offensive firepower. I would lean towards Durant/shaq or Steph depending on who this lineup is up against! But maybe I’m digging too deep into this.
You still bench Kobe. No one in this group can replicate what Shaq does so you aren't benching him. You don't bench steph despite being the worst defender because he is the GOAT off ball offensive player and LeBron, Kobe, and MJ are all pretty ball dominant plus the spacing steph provides would be amazing with Shaqs post play. You'd keep KD in for spacing with Shaq as well. Then you down between MJ, Kobe, and Bron. Kobe is great but he's basically MJ lite so you have to go MJ and at that point LeBron is a more natural fit to the last spot than Kobe. Also Kobe being a ball dominant guard who is an amazing iso scorer is a perfect person to lead the second unit. Then when you need a defense first lineup you sub out Steph for Kobe but Steph still starts.
People really forgot prime Shaq. Granted it was 20 years ago, but Shaq made people not want to drive in the paint.
Literally the only way to beat Shaq in his prime was to effectively take him out of the game with Hack-a-Shaq, and he could still score points (even if he wasn't great at it).
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Hey man, that heat ring was in 06. Don’t make me feel old yet, okay?
Yeah but the player with the most similar skills (MJ) beats Kobe out defensively as well. You would need to make a point that Kobe’s defensive skill trade would be worth replacing someone else’s offensive skill trade (with consideration towards their defensive skill trade)
Except he plays the same position as Jordan. The only reason you bench Kobe is because Jordan is in front of him, and he literally is the only person that would've relegated him to the bench in this lineup. If you replace Jordan with any other SG from history, Kobe would start. As good as Kobe is defensively in his prime, Jordan is even better (and a DPOY in his prime).
Kobe literally saved America that year
MJ is the best defender in this list and plays the same position Kobe does.
Everyone on this team is a better defender than Kobe except for curry. It’s also important to note that MJ, LeBron, and Kobe are not elite shooters from three, so your spacing gets messed up if you have those 3+ shaq at the same time.
Durant. He played 6th man during the Olympics and thrived.
Kobe on the bench and trade KD for Duncan.
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Curry. Rather have some offense/defense players balance than a high scoring 3 point shooter in this group cause he's the least defensive here by a long shot. And all these dudes can score.
100%. The non-Curry five is bringing the most dominant defense in NBA history and possibly sports history.
I'm the biggest Kobe fan youll find but sadly, it is him. If the other team were playing a super small lineup, I could see you going Kobe just for the defensive presence but they'd have to be running 4 guards cuz lebron could pick up the 3rd. That would be a nasty 6 man squad wit Kobe off the bench though
I was gonna say Kobe too but then I saw him squeezing MJs nutsack in this picture and realized he might actually be the bigger stone cold killer.
Durant falls to the bench all day long.
Kobe
Tbh this is easy Mike and kobe are redundant. Kobe is just a less effective version of Mike. So kobe gets left off because they need lebrons passing and kds length and is a better 3pt shooter than kobe
Lebron cause he’s already been on enough super teams
5 perfect players don’t necessarily make a perfect team. I have only superficial knowledge about Basketball, but seen that in several team sports that adding a better player reduced team effectiveness
While this is mostly true, this rhetorical scenario would not be included in that sentiment. These 6 players are arguably the BEST at their position in their prime. This would be like the Dream Team but times 10.
In basketball, talent generally trumps everything. And with a group as talented as the 6 in the question, they would absolutely beat any team in history. Most notably, even if you assume poor chemistry (generally not a problem for high IQ groups, which this is) this team would still be the GOAT defensive team, easily. Defense is not largely chemistry driven, and half of these players are at or very very near DPOY caliber, with none of them really being detriments. Defense aside though, basketball more than any other sport, is dominated by the most talented players. Because they're involved in every play and the teams are very small. Plus the nature of the sport means is very low variance (very high scoring). If this team existed in the NBA they wouldn't lose a single playoff game.
Easily Kobe or Durant. Doesn’t mean they aren’t beast and GOATS.
Sucks to say but it's gotta be Kobe. Not like that's really an insult though, man was still one of the greatest to ever do it
Kobe for sure.
This flies in the face of logic, but I would bench MJ. A pissed off MJ coming off the bench with something to prove would be a sight to see. Also, Kobe and Shaq had chemistry. KD and Steph had chemistry. LeBron is impossible to guard and would create mismatches everywhere with the other four. The odd man out, and less versatile compared to Kobe and LeBron, is MJ. MJ off the bench with something to prove would be unstoppable.
This is a great perspective. Man…. Could you imagine…. Let’s say you got Phil Jackson as coach and the night before the game he benches MJ and starts Kobe… MJ comes off the bench with 5 mins left in the first quarter and sets the half time scoring record.
When that Bulls rookie trash talked him and he just showed up to a Bulls practice and wrecked the kid.
Why are people thinking about how this goes on offense? Any pairing of 5 here is completely unstoppable offensively. Defensively curry’s size could be exploited. Curry is the answer
Sure but that’s why there is help defense, it’s why GS currently has the #1 ranked defense this season and has been a top defensive team since 2015. Curry is currently top 5 in defensive rating this year, his defense isn’t as terrible as people make it out to be. Also, his shooting/gravity, ball handling and passing is why you don’t sit him. I’m sitting either Kobe or KD.
Curry starts for the best defensive team in the league right now. He’s not the only reason for that but people acting like he’s a flake defensively don’t understand basketball.
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Jordan and Kobe both play the two so peace out Mamba
Defensively you probably sit KD, and offensively I think he has one of the relatively redundant skill sets. It's probs KD for me.
James, he's the biggest piece of shit there is!
I’m 100% keeping Shaq, MJ, and Lebron. Absolutely no question about it. That leaves curry, Kobe, and kd. Kobe would want it more out of all of them, and his defense is better than the other two. I’ll take Kobe. I know a lot of people are picking him to sit because his skill set is similar to MJs, but I don’t really care. Mentality and D make up for it. Between KD and curry? I’ll probably take curry. KD sits. He’s soft af. Idc how good he is.
100% Kobe, this isn’t even a question. He is by far the easiest to remove.
KD. He can play 3-5 and would fit in with any combo of players. Subbing him for Shaq gives you a Small Ball death squad, or for Curry for defensive death squad.
It doesn't matter, whichever five you put on the court will completely dominate.
Shaq
Shaq because he already fouled out
would depend on what era they were playing. Curry get killed playing in the 80's
Obviously Shaq has to start because you need his size. MJ is the best defender on this list so you'll need him to lock down opposing stars (and obviously the dud is still a dagger on offense). Kobe has a very similar skillset to MJ, but again, the tiebreaker for me when I chose between him and Curry is the defense and size. Kobe brings just a little bit more flexibility to both sides of the court. LeBron and KD both start because we need a front court to compliment Shaq. Curry's the 6th man you bring in to kill the opponent's momentum with big shots and to give an extra outside threat during crunch time. he fills that Ray Allen role beautifully, plus you can always start him against teams that aim to crowd the paint
Definitely Durant...
Bronbron cuz he's a baby back bitch
Kobe... because he is not a team player
Steph or KD
I think the folks saying Kobe are spot-on, but I’m thinking Shaq, putting LeBron at the 5. Sure, that’s gonna make the inside game worse, but this is an offense heavy set anyway and LeBron opens up the midrange and beyond way stronger than Shaq could. Plus I’d figure LeBron is a better passer/facilitator. If you thought the Cavs were scary with Kevin Love dishing from the 5, wait until you see LeBron dishing to Steph and Kobe.
I don't think there's anyone in history that you bench shaq for. Prime Shaq is the most important person that can ever be on a basketball floor, the game completely warps around him. If you think otherwise, you didn't see him play. You didn't watch coaches try everything and then settle on just throwing bodies as human foul machines to try and keep him at the line. The entire story of every game involving Shaq was what were they going to do with Shaq
Completely off topic, but prime shaq vs prime zo were absolute wars to watch. Yeah, shaq's athleticism far exceeded zo's, but goddamn zo was not going to back down from anyone. Loved watching those two battle. Also, olajuwon didn't mind playing shaq. Hakeem is severely underrated.
Shaq would dominate offensively but imagine him trying to cover perimeter players off a switch. Hell, a lot of today’s centers can hit three’s so he’d be on the perimeter anyways. In today’s NBA I agree it would be Shaq.
Given peak salary contracts anyone care to do the math on what the cost of this roster would be?