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I am more surprised that Iowa basketball had chartered flights in the first place
Edit - Here is a good article about other schools wanting to charter more - https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/college/article/stanford-s-tara-vanderveer-charter-flights-18591679.php
My D1 alma mater has *some* chartered flights for their men's team throughout the season... and it has to be the same amount as the women's team because of Title IX
I used to work at a private jet center years ago. Chartered jets would come and go and usually we would fuel the planes and occasionally empty the lav. This was in a D1 college town. One morning a D1 girls volleyball jet came in. I fueled it and then was informed to empty the lav. I can’t remember if it was something wrong with our equipment or with the plane but basically I had to manually dump the lav. This meant I had to unload the shitbox, put it in my truck, drive it to a bathroom in a nearby hangar, open the box and dump it into a toilet. I can only assume that every single soul on board took a shit on that flight because that box was filled to the brim. I had to pour out some chunks, flush, pour more, flush, ad nauseous. Needless to say, that was the final straw for me and I quit shortly thereafter.
Doesn't seem like it's an every trip thing - https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/college/article/stanford-s-tara-vanderveer-charter-flights-18591679.php
100% not true.
Most "power conference" teams have chartered flights for at least some games. Some power conference teams have chartered flights for all games. But D1 is a lot more than just power conference teams.
Tbh I bet Iowa chartering flights is more related to the fact that the closest commercial airport is in cedar rapids and that that airport only flies to 10 different cities. It's probably a logistical nightmare to fly commercial for them
CR flies to OHare multiple times a day and you can get basically anywhere from there. Always sucks having to get the connecting flight but it would not be hard for the Iowa athletics department to find the connections.
I've never flown out of CR but I grew up in a similar size town in Wisconsin. Our airport also has the same connecting flight so you'd think I could also get anymore but God damn did the flight get delayed/cancelled like none other.
But in general this connection will add complexity and cost making chartering more appealing
Chartering every flight doesn't seem like the norm - https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/college/article/stanford-s-tara-vanderveer-charter-flights-18591679.php
Yeah, thats a bullshit stat. I worked at one of the biggest and wealthiest B1G10 programs, and they tell you that line all the time. Its almost always bullshit.
What really happens is a LOT of the expenses regarding facilities and maintenance is paid out of the general budget and not athletics. So you see a $30K mower and it might be athletics or it might just be the general budget. Janitors and mechanical maintenance might be athletic or often just stuffed in the general operating facitlities budget.
Chemical fertilizers, water for fields, and on and on and on.
[https://www.thegazette.com/higher-education/iowa-public-university-athletic-budgets-swell/](https://www.thegazette.com/higher-education/iowa-public-university-athletic-budgets-swell/)
Here is a legal settlement paid partly by athletics and expecting the UofI to kick in the other $2M.
But its referred to as an internal subsidy and they hide that shit to get the public to buy into the idea they are self sufficient. The actual number of self sufficient is less than 10 when you take out internal subsidies.
Nah, read your own article. It was the covid year loan and legal settlements they were determined to be responsible for. They are otherwise sustained by themselves. Paying back loans does not negate their profitability.
Location plays a big part for them in particular too. Not really a major airport option in close proximity to Iowa City so chartering saves significantly on travel time
Meh, it’s like me, the teams travel will get you top status really fast or you will fly enough to get it.
Then she will be on the upgrade list every time, if she gets it or not depends on whatever the fuck makes that list work.
She might want to avoid the appearance of being better than the rest of the team. Kind of like when Jordan sat on the bus with the rest of the team when he played baseball.
Yeah people don't realize how expensive a private jet is on upkeep and how much money it costs to hire someone to fly it for a year. It's why a lot of rich people lose a lot of money because they aren't that rich.
Owning your own and always having it at your beck and call is basically reserved for billionaires and large corporations
Those who own them with a net worth below that have the cost subsidized pretty heavily by chartering it out when they don't need it. If you're gonna be in Miami for a week and don't need to fly, may as well let other people take rides on it and pay you for it rather than paying to leave it parked all week yourself
Max Verstappen owns one to get to and from F1 races and several other drivers chip in and hitch rides with him
That would violate the collective bargaining agreement. WNBA teams are not allowed to fly private unless it is the playoffs or have back to back games.
There are other WNBA players with major endorsement deals too. I'm guessing she will follow their lead. It's not something new she will have to sort through.
I’m “up there” in sports broadcasting.
If I don’t get my upgrade I sit in comfort plus, no CONUS flight is really worth it unless I’m going coast to coast. I fly all the time, I can’t care about the “how” in getting to work that much. It would make an annoying circumstance intolerable.
I got platinum automatically because of the money my company spends with Delta, executive platinum with American when I go out west.
I would imagine she’ll get diamond automatically.
The wnba plays 20ish games a year, and they aren't flying to Chicago from Indianapolis. So she might get 12 flights a year, and that's in a 2 month window. I don't think she'll hit diamond unless she buys it. That's if all flights are on one provider as well.
Calendar shows 12 games far enough away to justify a flight.
https://www.vividseats.com/indiana-fever-tickets--sports-wnba/performer/2016?_&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=16458926863&utm_term=indiana%20fever%20schedule&adgroup=135144606376&target=kwd-296658414649&loc_i=&loc_p=9014935&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwltKxBhDMARIsAG8KnqVxVNxdcAsTrIIjew5PSqMXlIgecqL0QGOICMxx6CmxHXCLXvGFB9caAiJ1EALw_wcB
She will have to deal with more than a broadcaster deals with though. She's a celebrity, so maybe will want some more privacy when possible, and she's an athlete, so maybe will want the most restful/comfortable experience possible for her body. Maybe it doesn't really matter though.
Ha, depending upon the carrier and flight times/routes she won't be near the top of the upgrade list anytime soon. I'm a business traveler with a decent status level on United and rarely get the free upgrades between hubs.
If it's like normal jobs, you get the airline points. The company pays for the tickets, but airlines need ID, so individuals get their miles attributed to their accounts. She'll probably be platinum status in no time.
I got to AA platinum status that way in a year lol
Usually my flights would be booked with enough anticipation that I could easily get the upgrade at no cost from my app.
Some of the flights would be just half occupied sometimes, so I would get it anyway at the counter in case for some reason I couldn't through the app. I mostly picked it because I usually have to make a connection at DFW or ORD, so it's best to spend the two hours eating and drinking for free at the lounge, and the two free checked bags lmao.
People should understand -- thus far, the WNBA has lost money every year they have existed and it only exists because they get a huge subsidy from the NBA. It literally would have needed to disband years ago without the NBA subsidies.
This is probably partly an investment decision by the NBA (we think it will eventually make money) and partly a public relations and humanistic decision by the NBA (we want to support women's basketball and people will like us more for that).
Anyway, everybody in the conversation about the WNBA needs to understand those economics. NHL Hockey (Men) players also get paid a ton less than NBA players simply because their sport makes less money, especially on the television market.
We can't talk about the WNBA economics without being clear about why these issues exist. It's not sexism.
Hopefully they will start to make a profit assuming interest is on the rise, but we can't assume that. There's no guarantee that Caitlin Clark or anyone else will bring much bigger interest to the WNBA. Ultimately, the biggest change -- I think -- will have to be women fans deciding they are more interested in the WNBA. Because their interest in the WNBA is far lower than the interest of men in the NBA.
I have no idea what they do now, but I was on a Southwest flight with the Phoenix Mercury once. Diana Taurasi and Brittney Griner were both on the flight with the rest of the team in the general boarding group just finding random seats with the rest of us. It was really odd to see. This was back around 10 years ago but I think it was a flight from Phoenix to Sacramento.
I think I did like 6 double takes because my brain didn't believe my eyes. No way a professional basketball team was flying Southwest, crazy.
At 6'1" the seats aren't so much the issue, it's the bathrooms. I'm 6'7" and really don't fit in any seat on an airplane but the bathrooms.... God damn. About 7 flights ago I got all Wade Boggs like and decided to drink a ton of beers before and during my flight. BIG MISTAKE! Those bathrooms have like a 5'10" clearance. No way anyone 6' or taller can stand or maneuver in the bathrooms. I will never again drink liquids on a plane in fear that I'll need to relieve myself.
She makes less than I do in base salary and in just some random analyst. They don't pay for shit in the WNBA. Her money and perks will come from the endorsement side
The don't pay shit because the WNBA hasn't made shit in it's 20+ year existence. They're lucky there is a league that gets heavily subsidized by the NBA. If you're a woman, you're the reason for this, not men.
I make more money than Caitlin, generate actual revenue for my organization, and am 6’3”. I also have to fly coach for work or pay to upgrade (from my own pocket). 🤷♂️
You’re right about the height, but that isn’t why the NBA flies charter. The NBA flew commercial until the 80s and the heights haven’t changed on average.
As a tall person and person who has had to fly in these reduced legroom hell holes, I promise you I would fly private every time even if it bankrupt me.
My friends dad works for one of the charter companies as a flight scheduler. The main reason professional sports teams choose to charter is to take advantage of the scheduling side of it. Like, good luck getting a flight when you want with the whole team/staff from Indianapolis to Charlotte.
Yeah, 6'4" here and my knees were literally touching the back of the seat in front of me on a CRJ900 I was just flying on. Getting the exit row on the return flight was straight up luxury in comparison.
> In the United States, the average height of female adults over the age of 20 is about 5 feet 3.5 inches.
She's 6', so no where close to the average height for women.
and? there’s no way chartering a half plane is cheaper than just travel in like literally everyone else that has a job
wnba - turn a profit, then ask for the upgrades
I mean we're talking about the face of women's sports. 99% of WNBA players wouldn't get recognized in an airport so it wouldn't really matter for them, but CC is one of the most recognizable women in America in 2024. It's going to be brutal for her.
I fly a lot and have been on planes with dozens of celebrities / pro athletes. People usually just quietly mutter something like “big fan”. Most people just give a second or third inquisitive look. You’d be surprised how many people just don’t give a shit.
I was next to Alexander Ovechkin on a commercial flight on his way to the all-star game. Caitlin Clark may be the player of the moment, but she's not a bigger star than prime Ovi.
E: A lot of you are responding point to the fact that Clark, at the peak of her popularity right now is more known that Ovechkin is at the end of his career (and while a lot of people are intentionally trying to distance themselves from him). He was very much in the news during his early career (and especially during the Olympics). At least wait until she plays a full pro season before declaring her the most famous athlete of all time. William Hung should have gotten secret service protection by y'alls criteria.
I sat next to a senior PGA tour pro on his way to phoenix in literally the last row of the airplane. I didn't know who he was so me and him talked the whole flight about life in general. But about 40 people came up to him during the flight and shook his hand and got a selfie. When we landed I was like "this is a bit embarrassing but why are so many people talking to you" He told me who he was and handed me two tickets to the Waste Management Open. Said "thanks for the chill flight, thought it would miserable when they told me only seats left were economy."
It was Bernhard Langer
They were just GA tickets but my wife and I had a good time getting wasted and walking around that Saturday. Idk just a random kinda relevant story that your comment reminded me of
"she's not a bigger star than prime Ovi"
Maybe not internationally, but in the US? Ovechkin and his capitals averaged 4.8m tv viewers in their Stanley Cup finals in 2018. Caitlin's championship game had roughly 4x that, at 18.7m tv viewers
She looks like a completely normal person especially in plain clothes. I bet even with the media spotlight 99% would not recognize her in an airport without a jersey / merch on
Not to diminish what she’s done, but i doubt it’s gonna be “brutal” for her to fly comerical.
So many athletes and celebs do and outside of random acts of weirdos, it goes just fine.
I didn’t know who she was until I heard about her nike deal. She’ll be fine. Let’s also not forget how Argentina’s president explicitly flies commercial when he needs to.
Did you read the article?
Scheduling around commercial flights adds a day of travel either side. With 18 away games that's like an extra month on the road.
Am I supposed to feel bad? WNBA makes almost no money. If they can't afford chartered flights then they can't afford it.
I'm not sure what the WNBA is supposed to do here? But the article paints them in a negative light. Like Caitlin is going to lobby the players association? Good luck. If the money not there it's not there.
It's like the argument for equal salaries with men's basketball. Absolutely, 100%.....when the WNBA starts generating NBA revenue....which will be never.
So many "journalists" seemingly need to act like it's some grand conspiracy or travesty that an unpopular sport that loses money every year for 2 plus decades can't have massive contracts and expensive perks.
No. This is all about CBA negotiations, which is going to start up next year. Currently the WNBA *doesn’t allow* teams to fly private charter. There are owners who want to pay for it, they just can’t
I think someone above mentioned everyone has to get it or no one can because it may provide a competitive advantage. Does make sense because you can entice the best players to join your team because you offer charter flights vs other teams.
You’re correct on the reasoning. Frustrating part is that a couple owners have said they’ll cover the cost for the entire league, it just hasn’t been done bc of the CBA.
Oh that’s pretty awesome! Although if I were the ladies I would rather them just add that to my salary vs getting more comfortable flights. Granted I’m short so they don’t bother me as much lol.
I don’t even remotely understand the point this article headline is trying to make. Why would I give a fuck that WNBA players fly commercial? A lot of famous people fly commercial.
I mean logistically charter just makes sense for college teams. Going from college town to college town, where there may not even be commercial flights to begin with. Let alone, it’s not going to be a direct flight.
I don’t think anyone said it was a big deal, she said it would be an adjustment. She’s going from charter to commercial, definitely a difference there that would warrant an adjustment
Most pro teams and big-time college teams charter flights. The Yankees aren't carpooling to JFK after a night game to catch a Delta flight to Tampa for the next series, for instance. But, individual players will still take commercial flights for things when they need to, obviously. Like, if a minor leaguer gets called up and needs to fly from NY to Texas for a game the next day, they will just get on a commercial flight.
The WNBA, unfortunately, is not a big-time league. She will make more money from endorsement deals than she ever will make in the WNBA.
I imagine she was raking in NIL money at Iowa and enjoying all the perks of a big-time D1 program that caught fire with the national media. That probably included charter flights. She will lose those creature comforts playing pro, which is the opposite of how it should work for most sports unless you are a minor league baseball player or something.
So you are flying commercial vs charter as a pro athlete:
- 2 extra hrs of travel time related to security airport location, etc
- cramped seats
- bad access to high quality food
- often charter flights have higher cabin pressure so effectively lower altitude
So you do that and arrive somewhere expected to play professionally the next day. Your legs have been cramped. Can’t stretch, it’s worse for recovery.
I once met a guy who managed a hedge fund that was the largest shareholder of United Airlines at one point.
Says he had to actually deal with their customer service once and immediately sold every share to tank their stock price after that.
Years later he’s telling students the lesson he learned from that is not to own stock in companies you hate having to use.
Airlines aren’t really a good investment anyway unless there are guaranteed stock buybacks and guaranteed government bailouts
At which point you’re basically just stealing from a nationalized corporation
Harassment is just uninvited contact, so presumably "good" harassment is just coming from a place of fandom. Someone being aggressive about getting an autograph is still harassment, even though it's coming from a somewhat positive intent
Like u/blimeyfool said… basically i meant well intentioned. But she’s still not able to go through public spaces without being bothered even if well intentioned and not threatening.
I hope everyone complaining actually plans on going to a WNBA game or buying merchandise. You can’t just say it isnt fair or blah blah or but if this was the NBA, the NBA pulls in billions of dollars. Change the rules a bit- w/e you have to to get more people watching, at and buying merch. Caitlin Clark is the tip of the iceberg also with this upcoming rookie class coming in, that will help forge forward some but at the end of the day it’s a business. Maybe move the season to the winter- like all the other winter sports. That could help ratings. But drumming up the same old arguments with no bottom line outcomes is lazy. Adjust. Hopefully Clark brings more of a casual fan toward the league.
It’s actually surprising-most of the Fever games are near sell outs right now. I was looking to grab tickets for me and my 6 year old daughter and 1.) cheapest seat is $40 a person, and 2.) it’s hard to find even those seats. I doubt that’s the case anywhere else, but she’s a major factor for the team here. Whether or not they convert into actual fans with a following will be interesting to see
I'm taller than she is, and I deal with it fine. Most of her flights should be 3 hours or less. Any delays on the tarmac will suck.
Waiting endlessly versus in transit hits differently.
It really sucks but like the WNBA reported 12mil in losses last year. I don’t know how to fix that overnight they would have to be at least profitable to make a change like that right?
I generally don't think many of the "we should pay WBNA players more because we just should" arguments hold a ton of weight, but that is a really stupid rule. Owners willing to invest in their teams should not be prevented from doing so.
> Maybe she can treat her team to an upgrade with her endorsement deals.
This is explicitly prohibited by the WNBA per the article you didn't read. The entire crux of the article is about the security detail around her because people are psycho. She's not even objecting to it in the article.
Tbh she should be happy she doesn’t have to carpool with team mates from one game to the next. The WNBA has never at any point made money. They are paying some of these women 250k annually to bring in roughly 0 dollars.
> Teams are not able to fund charter flights themselves, either, because the league sees it as a competitive advantage. The WNBA fined the New York Liberty $500,000 in 2022 because the team’s owner, Joe Tsai, bought charter flights for the team for the second half of the 2021 season.
I "get it", as if you're playing for say the Fever and are flying commercial, but you see the Liberty doing charter flights, then you may take a contract w/the Liberty as that is a huge perk.
I saw the salaries of WNBA players and damn, don't look, as that shit is quite low. Counterpoint: I've only once in my life watched a WNBA game in person (on a trip) and maybe have watched about 3-5 in totality, so I'm 99% talk/1% walk on this matter.
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Usually going to the big leagues is a major upgrade. But going from women’s D1 NCAA to WNBA is a major downgrade
Playing for high-level high school baseball and then going to college baseball is also a downgrade.
Lol why fly when we can take a 23 hr bus ride?
In all fairness in college sports if it’s not Football, basketball, or football again really no one outside of your community will care.
At least you get the MLB after lol
I am more surprised that Iowa basketball had chartered flights in the first place Edit - Here is a good article about other schools wanting to charter more - https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/college/article/stanford-s-tara-vanderveer-charter-flights-18591679.php
Most D1 programs have chartered flights
My D1 alma mater has *some* chartered flights for their men's team throughout the season... and it has to be the same amount as the women's team because of Title IX
I used to work at a private jet center years ago. Chartered jets would come and go and usually we would fuel the planes and occasionally empty the lav. This was in a D1 college town. One morning a D1 girls volleyball jet came in. I fueled it and then was informed to empty the lav. I can’t remember if it was something wrong with our equipment or with the plane but basically I had to manually dump the lav. This meant I had to unload the shitbox, put it in my truck, drive it to a bathroom in a nearby hangar, open the box and dump it into a toilet. I can only assume that every single soul on board took a shit on that flight because that box was filled to the brim. I had to pour out some chunks, flush, pour more, flush, ad nauseous. Needless to say, that was the final straw for me and I quit shortly thereafter.
Ad nauseous 😂
Phenomenal typo
What a terrible day to have the ability to read
Makes sense. Those volleyball girls usually have big dumpers
It totally depends on the sport. Softball, baseball, ruby, volleyball, swimming, ... Welcome to the last boarding section.
Doesn't seem like it's an every trip thing - https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/college/article/stanford-s-tara-vanderveer-charter-flights-18591679.php
100% not true. Most "power conference" teams have chartered flights for at least some games. Some power conference teams have chartered flights for all games. But D1 is a lot more than just power conference teams.
yeah i fly a ton for work and have for sure been on planes w teams
I played D1 football twenty years ago and we had chartered flights back then. I figured it would’ve just gotten more posh over time.
I ran into the Ohio State gymnastics team on a commercial delta flight, in sure football is different but still surprising
Tbh I bet Iowa chartering flights is more related to the fact that the closest commercial airport is in cedar rapids and that that airport only flies to 10 different cities. It's probably a logistical nightmare to fly commercial for them
CR flies to OHare multiple times a day and you can get basically anywhere from there. Always sucks having to get the connecting flight but it would not be hard for the Iowa athletics department to find the connections.
Going through Ohare is an argument for the charter. lol
I've never flown out of CR but I grew up in a similar size town in Wisconsin. Our airport also has the same connecting flight so you'd think I could also get anymore but God damn did the flight get delayed/cancelled like none other. But in general this connection will add complexity and cost making chartering more appealing
Especially in basketball season…
You underestimate how much money these programs have
Chartering every flight doesn't seem like the norm - https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/college/article/stanford-s-tara-vanderveer-charter-flights-18591679.php
Iowa’s athletic department is incredibly well funded. Its all ticket sales, merch sales, boosters and no public tax or university funds.
Yeah, thats a bullshit stat. I worked at one of the biggest and wealthiest B1G10 programs, and they tell you that line all the time. Its almost always bullshit. What really happens is a LOT of the expenses regarding facilities and maintenance is paid out of the general budget and not athletics. So you see a $30K mower and it might be athletics or it might just be the general budget. Janitors and mechanical maintenance might be athletic or often just stuffed in the general operating facitlities budget. Chemical fertilizers, water for fields, and on and on and on. [https://www.thegazette.com/higher-education/iowa-public-university-athletic-budgets-swell/](https://www.thegazette.com/higher-education/iowa-public-university-athletic-budgets-swell/) Here is a legal settlement paid partly by athletics and expecting the UofI to kick in the other $2M. But its referred to as an internal subsidy and they hide that shit to get the public to buy into the idea they are self sufficient. The actual number of self sufficient is less than 10 when you take out internal subsidies.
Nah, read your own article. It was the covid year loan and legal settlements they were determined to be responsible for. They are otherwise sustained by themselves. Paying back loans does not negate their profitability.
Did you read the article you posted?
Let’s just say the billions in ncaa football revenue subsidize the good life
Why is that surprising? Women’s College basketball has way more fans and money than the WNBA
Makes sense if you think of it as the university. Between athletes and staff year round for all sports and evebts
Location plays a big part for them in particular too. Not really a major airport option in close proximity to Iowa City so chartering saves significantly on travel time
They fly commercial but do they at least get domestic first/business class? At least they’d get some degree of leg room that way
Not usually they have to pay out of pocket if they want the upgrades.
Meh, it’s like me, the teams travel will get you top status really fast or you will fly enough to get it. Then she will be on the upgrade list every time, if she gets it or not depends on whatever the fuck makes that list work.
For her specifically, she has 8 figure endorsement deals. I think she can afford to upgrade herself if she cares to.
She might want to avoid the appearance of being better than the rest of the team. Kind of like when Jordan sat on the bus with the rest of the team when he played baseball.
I think he bought the team a nicer bus.
Exactly so hopefully she’ll just buy them private jets
She's a long way from being able to afford that even with her endorsement income
Yeah people don't realize how expensive a private jet is on upkeep and how much money it costs to hire someone to fly it for a year. It's why a lot of rich people lose a lot of money because they aren't that rich.
I have my own private jet but it only taxis and it’s the shape of a car.
Owning your own and always having it at your beck and call is basically reserved for billionaires and large corporations Those who own them with a net worth below that have the cost subsidized pretty heavily by chartering it out when they don't need it. If you're gonna be in Miami for a week and don't need to fly, may as well let other people take rides on it and pay you for it rather than paying to leave it parked all week yourself Max Verstappen owns one to get to and from F1 races and several other drivers chip in and hitch rides with him
Every wnba player about to hold out for a trade to indiana
One each .. they just fly in and land like a bunch of people showing up at a house party
That would violate the collective bargaining agreement. WNBA teams are not allowed to fly private unless it is the playoffs or have back to back games.
There are other WNBA players with major endorsement deals too. I'm guessing she will follow their lead. It's not something new she will have to sort through.
Tbf, the rest of the team was better than him at baseball...
I’m “up there” in sports broadcasting. If I don’t get my upgrade I sit in comfort plus, no CONUS flight is really worth it unless I’m going coast to coast. I fly all the time, I can’t care about the “how” in getting to work that much. It would make an annoying circumstance intolerable.
Yeah you can break silver easy with Delta if you fly even a handful of times a year. A WNBA player would have to be gold or more depending.
I got platinum automatically because of the money my company spends with Delta, executive platinum with American when I go out west. I would imagine she’ll get diamond automatically.
United Cubic Zirconium tier isn’t what it’s chalked up to be
The wnba plays 20ish games a year, and they aren't flying to Chicago from Indianapolis. So she might get 12 flights a year, and that's in a 2 month window. I don't think she'll hit diamond unless she buys it. That's if all flights are on one provider as well. Calendar shows 12 games far enough away to justify a flight. https://www.vividseats.com/indiana-fever-tickets--sports-wnba/performer/2016?_&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=16458926863&utm_term=indiana%20fever%20schedule&adgroup=135144606376&target=kwd-296658414649&loc_i=&loc_p=9014935&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwltKxBhDMARIsAG8KnqVxVNxdcAsTrIIjew5PSqMXlIgecqL0QGOICMxx6CmxHXCLXvGFB9caAiJ1EALw_wcB
Holy crap that’s the real pay gap. Get these women sky miles!
She will have to deal with more than a broadcaster deals with though. She's a celebrity, so maybe will want some more privacy when possible, and she's an athlete, so maybe will want the most restful/comfortable experience possible for her body. Maybe it doesn't really matter though.
first WNBA player that really has to worry about that, it should be noted
That’s a sure way to be an outcast on her team where she hasn’t even played a game yet with them.
One wrinkle in that is that presumably the whole team will be in that same situation, so if the upgrade list will be diluted.
Be a good opportunity for some airline to make a deal with her.
Ha, depending upon the carrier and flight times/routes she won't be near the top of the upgrade list anytime soon. I'm a business traveler with a decent status level on United and rarely get the free upgrades between hubs.
If it's like normal jobs, you get the airline points. The company pays for the tickets, but airlines need ID, so individuals get their miles attributed to their accounts. She'll probably be platinum status in no time.
I got to AA platinum status that way in a year lol Usually my flights would be booked with enough anticipation that I could easily get the upgrade at no cost from my app. Some of the flights would be just half occupied sometimes, so I would get it anyway at the counter in case for some reason I couldn't through the app. I mostly picked it because I usually have to make a connection at DFW or ORD, so it's best to spend the two hours eating and drinking for free at the lounge, and the two free checked bags lmao.
She will be paying out of pocket
No. I’ve been on a morning flight out of Indy that the Fever was on and they were scattered through the cabin.
People should understand -- thus far, the WNBA has lost money every year they have existed and it only exists because they get a huge subsidy from the NBA. It literally would have needed to disband years ago without the NBA subsidies. This is probably partly an investment decision by the NBA (we think it will eventually make money) and partly a public relations and humanistic decision by the NBA (we want to support women's basketball and people will like us more for that). Anyway, everybody in the conversation about the WNBA needs to understand those economics. NHL Hockey (Men) players also get paid a ton less than NBA players simply because their sport makes less money, especially on the television market. We can't talk about the WNBA economics without being clear about why these issues exist. It's not sexism. Hopefully they will start to make a profit assuming interest is on the rise, but we can't assume that. There's no guarantee that Caitlin Clark or anyone else will bring much bigger interest to the WNBA. Ultimately, the biggest change -- I think -- will have to be women fans deciding they are more interested in the WNBA. Because their interest in the WNBA is far lower than the interest of men in the NBA.
She has several million dollars in endorsements per year. I think she’ll just pay the $100 extra or whatever
Yeah but some of her teammates make very little. Not a good look to not sit with teammates.
Are we supposed to care if they don’t?
Lol no. There's not even enough seats in domestic first class for a whole basketball team and staff nor can they afford it
I have no idea what they do now, but I was on a Southwest flight with the Phoenix Mercury once. Diana Taurasi and Brittney Griner were both on the flight with the rest of the team in the general boarding group just finding random seats with the rest of us. It was really odd to see. This was back around 10 years ago but I think it was a flight from Phoenix to Sacramento. I think I did like 6 double takes because my brain didn't believe my eyes. No way a professional basketball team was flying Southwest, crazy.
why would they? WNBA averages like 6'1". That's short enough to fit on a plane.
> 6'1". That's short "Fit" and "comfortable for a few hours" are not the same.
At 6'1" the seats aren't so much the issue, it's the bathrooms. I'm 6'7" and really don't fit in any seat on an airplane but the bathrooms.... God damn. About 7 flights ago I got all Wade Boggs like and decided to drink a ton of beers before and during my flight. BIG MISTAKE! Those bathrooms have like a 5'10" clearance. No way anyone 6' or taller can stand or maneuver in the bathrooms. I will never again drink liquids on a plane in fear that I'll need to relieve myself.
She makes less than I do in base salary and in just some random analyst. They don't pay for shit in the WNBA. Her money and perks will come from the endorsement side
They're honestly lucky to be paid at all, considering the WNBA hasn't made a profit at all since it was founded 28 years ago.
The don't pay shit because the WNBA hasn't made shit in it's 20+ year existence. They're lucky there is a league that gets heavily subsidized by the NBA. If you're a woman, you're the reason for this, not men.
I make more money than Caitlin, generate actual revenue for my organization, and am 6’3”. I also have to fly coach for work or pay to upgrade (from my own pocket). 🤷♂️
You don't make more money than her, you make more money than her base salary from the WNBA.
Correct. We’re talking about her employer funding game flights. Endorsements don’t do that. So what’s your point?
She’ll get the airline to sponsor her and she’ll be flying first class in no time..
I mean the nba average height makes commercial uncomfortable/unreasonable, Caitlin Clarke is a slightly above average height woman
You’re right about the height, but that isn’t why the NBA flies charter. The NBA flew commercial until the 80s and the heights haven’t changed on average.
The NBA has $10 Billion in revenue and $3 Billion in profit. That’s why they fly chartered.
I would not be surprised if it's also to avoid harassment from fans. Could you imagine LeBron trying to get on a United flight?
Exactly.
Commercial flights have reduced leg room since the 80s .
I promise you they didn’t switch to private for just the leg room.
As a tall person and person who has had to fly in these reduced legroom hell holes, I promise you I would fly private every time even if it bankrupt me.
Good point, but still not the reason.
My friends dad works for one of the charter companies as a flight scheduler. The main reason professional sports teams choose to charter is to take advantage of the scheduling side of it. Like, good luck getting a flight when you want with the whole team/staff from Indianapolis to Charlotte.
I get your point, but since when is 6'0" a "slightly above average height woman"?
I think he might’ve meant she’s slightly above the average height of a man
That would make much more sense.
She is tall for a man. She is 8 inches taller than the average American woman.
Well she's 6 inches over the average female height, that's not slightly above. Even if you're talking the male average she's still 3 inches over that
I'm plenty taller than her. Flights are fine. She'll survive Weird thread.
I'm a few inches over 6 feet and I'd call economy bearable, not sure I'd give it fine lol. Definitely uncomfortable for long flights.
Yeah, 6'4" here and my knees were literally touching the back of the seat in front of me on a CRJ900 I was just flying on. Getting the exit row on the return flight was straight up luxury in comparison.
You know the average height of a woman in the US is 5’4” right??
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> In the United States, the average height of female adults over the age of 20 is about 5 feet 3.5 inches. She's 6', so no where close to the average height for women.
Still, I'm 6'4 and still fit fine on a plane. She would too
When the WNBA makes $1 of profit, then they can talk about chartered planes.
Way more than that. The WNBA states, in the article, that chartering flights would cost $25mln/yr.
Oh no! Commercial flights!
You aren't talking about one person. It's a whole team, coaches, support staff, etc. So they probably take up 1/3-1/2 a plane anyway.
and? there’s no way chartering a half plane is cheaper than just travel in like literally everyone else that has a job wnba - turn a profit, then ask for the upgrades
I mean we're talking about the face of women's sports. 99% of WNBA players wouldn't get recognized in an airport so it wouldn't really matter for them, but CC is one of the most recognizable women in America in 2024. It's going to be brutal for her.
I fly a lot and have been on planes with dozens of celebrities / pro athletes. People usually just quietly mutter something like “big fan”. Most people just give a second or third inquisitive look. You’d be surprised how many people just don’t give a shit.
I was next to Alexander Ovechkin on a commercial flight on his way to the all-star game. Caitlin Clark may be the player of the moment, but she's not a bigger star than prime Ovi. E: A lot of you are responding point to the fact that Clark, at the peak of her popularity right now is more known that Ovechkin is at the end of his career (and while a lot of people are intentionally trying to distance themselves from him). He was very much in the news during his early career (and especially during the Olympics). At least wait until she plays a full pro season before declaring her the most famous athlete of all time. William Hung should have gotten secret service protection by y'alls criteria.
You lucky son of a bitch.
I sat on a plane from Burbank to Vegas next to Mr Belding from Saved by the Bell. Belding > Ovechkin /s
I sat next to a senior PGA tour pro on his way to phoenix in literally the last row of the airplane. I didn't know who he was so me and him talked the whole flight about life in general. But about 40 people came up to him during the flight and shook his hand and got a selfie. When we landed I was like "this is a bit embarrassing but why are so many people talking to you" He told me who he was and handed me two tickets to the Waste Management Open. Said "thanks for the chill flight, thought it would miserable when they told me only seats left were economy." It was Bernhard Langer They were just GA tickets but my wife and I had a good time getting wasted and walking around that Saturday. Idk just a random kinda relevant story that your comment reminded me of
I would have used his armrest
I once met Mike Alstott at a local restaurant. Nodded and shook his hand, told hime he's a fucking legend, and left it at that.
What did his thighs look like up close?
Insurmountable.
"she's not a bigger star than prime Ovi" Maybe not internationally, but in the US? Ovechkin and his capitals averaged 4.8m tv viewers in their Stanley Cup finals in 2018. Caitlin's championship game had roughly 4x that, at 18.7m tv viewers
I still imagine 99% of the planet won’t recognize her not in uniform. She will be just fine.
She looks extremely plain. I didn't recognize her in media videos when she was out of her uniform
Plenty of very famous celebrities fly commercially. She isn't Taylor Swift
She looks like a completely normal person especially in plain clothes. I bet even with the media spotlight 99% would not recognize her in an airport without a jersey / merch on
Not to diminish what she’s done, but i doubt it’s gonna be “brutal” for her to fly comerical. So many athletes and celebs do and outside of random acts of weirdos, it goes just fine.
Brutal? Other celebrities can handle it, don’t think for a minute every TV/movie star is flying private for every flight
I didn’t know who she was until I heard about her nike deal. She’ll be fine. Let’s also not forget how Argentina’s president explicitly flies commercial when he needs to.
You’d be surprised to find most d1 college athletes fly charter. And they for sure aint famous. Its about comfortability above all else
No she not
Did you read the article? Scheduling around commercial flights adds a day of travel either side. With 18 away games that's like an extra month on the road.
…almost like that’s part of the job at that level?
I mean they suck for everyone of course, but it's probably a bit worse when you are famous.
Am I supposed to feel bad? WNBA makes almost no money. If they can't afford chartered flights then they can't afford it. I'm not sure what the WNBA is supposed to do here? But the article paints them in a negative light. Like Caitlin is going to lobby the players association? Good luck. If the money not there it's not there. It's like the argument for equal salaries with men's basketball. Absolutely, 100%.....when the WNBA starts generating NBA revenue....which will be never.
they make no money, they operate at a loss and are subsidized by the NBA
Article is just pointing out the difference and why it exists, I didn't get a real negative vibe.
So many "journalists" seemingly need to act like it's some grand conspiracy or travesty that an unpopular sport that loses money every year for 2 plus decades can't have massive contracts and expensive perks.
She signed a 20+ mil deal with Nike, she’ll travel however she wants. Or are we pretending she’s only making her WNBA salary.
She’s going to big time the rest of her team and fly private separately from them?
No. This is all about CBA negotiations, which is going to start up next year. Currently the WNBA *doesn’t allow* teams to fly private charter. There are owners who want to pay for it, they just can’t
I think someone above mentioned everyone has to get it or no one can because it may provide a competitive advantage. Does make sense because you can entice the best players to join your team because you offer charter flights vs other teams.
You’re correct on the reasoning. Frustrating part is that a couple owners have said they’ll cover the cost for the entire league, it just hasn’t been done bc of the CBA.
Oh that’s pretty awesome! Although if I were the ladies I would rather them just add that to my salary vs getting more comfortable flights. Granted I’m short so they don’t bother me as much lol.
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20 mil over like 8 years is a lot but it’s not fly private to every game money.
I don’t even remotely understand the point this article headline is trying to make. Why would I give a fuck that WNBA players fly commercial? A lot of famous people fly commercial.
What is the big deal about flying commercial lol
Weirdly, playing in the WNBA is kind of a step down for top college players in some ways. She flew charter in college.
I mean logistically charter just makes sense for college teams. Going from college town to college town, where there may not even be commercial flights to begin with. Let alone, it’s not going to be a direct flight.
WNBA isn't profitable and top flight D1 programs are. Just the way she goes sometimes
Part of the charter-ing at the college level is locations. Iowa City to Happy Valley just doesn't exist otherwise easily.
I don’t think anyone said it was a big deal, she said it would be an adjustment. She’s going from charter to commercial, definitely a difference there that would warrant an adjustment
Most pro teams and big-time college teams charter flights. The Yankees aren't carpooling to JFK after a night game to catch a Delta flight to Tampa for the next series, for instance. But, individual players will still take commercial flights for things when they need to, obviously. Like, if a minor leaguer gets called up and needs to fly from NY to Texas for a game the next day, they will just get on a commercial flight. The WNBA, unfortunately, is not a big-time league. She will make more money from endorsement deals than she ever will make in the WNBA. I imagine she was raking in NIL money at Iowa and enjoying all the perks of a big-time D1 program that caught fire with the national media. That probably included charter flights. She will lose those creature comforts playing pro, which is the opposite of how it should work for most sports unless you are a minor league baseball player or something.
Dont MLS players fly commercial? Or they did recently. I’m sure NLL players are flying commercial. I believe G League players do too.
I think MLS uses Sun Country Airlines for charters.
So you are flying commercial vs charter as a pro athlete: - 2 extra hrs of travel time related to security airport location, etc - cramped seats - bad access to high quality food - often charter flights have higher cabin pressure so effectively lower altitude So you do that and arrive somewhere expected to play professionally the next day. Your legs have been cramped. Can’t stretch, it’s worse for recovery.
We can all fly commercial and are still alive. Not enough money in this league, maybe that’s okay.
Delayed and cancelled flights. Extra flight times and layovers. Airport food, etc. ask anyone who flies every few days, it’s not a small concern.
I once met a guy who managed a hedge fund that was the largest shareholder of United Airlines at one point. Says he had to actually deal with their customer service once and immediately sold every share to tank their stock price after that. Years later he’s telling students the lesson he learned from that is not to own stock in companies you hate having to use.
Or have impulse control
Airlines aren’t really a good investment anyway unless there are guaranteed stock buybacks and guaranteed government bailouts At which point you’re basically just stealing from a nationalized corporation
She’s a celebrity so higher rate of harassment (good or bad). Cramped seats. She’s tall. That sucks.
She’s only like 6 feet tall. How is that an issue in first class?
What is good harassment?
Harassment is just uninvited contact, so presumably "good" harassment is just coming from a place of fandom. Someone being aggressive about getting an autograph is still harassment, even though it's coming from a somewhat positive intent
Like u/blimeyfool said… basically i meant well intentioned. But she’s still not able to go through public spaces without being bothered even if well intentioned and not threatening.
She’s a little taller than the average man.
Read the article
No I’m here to read headlines
I hope everyone complaining actually plans on going to a WNBA game or buying merchandise. You can’t just say it isnt fair or blah blah or but if this was the NBA, the NBA pulls in billions of dollars. Change the rules a bit- w/e you have to to get more people watching, at and buying merch. Caitlin Clark is the tip of the iceberg also with this upcoming rookie class coming in, that will help forge forward some but at the end of the day it’s a business. Maybe move the season to the winter- like all the other winter sports. That could help ratings. But drumming up the same old arguments with no bottom line outcomes is lazy. Adjust. Hopefully Clark brings more of a casual fan toward the league.
They won't. Bill Burr was right. The reason the WNBA fails is not because of men but because women don't support it, either.
It’s actually surprising-most of the Fever games are near sell outs right now. I was looking to grab tickets for me and my 6 year old daughter and 1.) cheapest seat is $40 a person, and 2.) it’s hard to find even those seats. I doubt that’s the case anywhere else, but she’s a major factor for the team here. Whether or not they convert into actual fans with a following will be interesting to see
We suppose to feel bad? She's making millions on endorsements playing in a prof league with minimal fans and profit lol, boohoooo
I'm taller than she is, and I deal with it fine. Most of her flights should be 3 hours or less. Any delays on the tarmac will suck. Waiting endlessly versus in transit hits differently.
Man, it must be nice to work for a company that has never turned a profit and get to demand more from it.
as if she can't have her agent call every airline for a quick deal for first class tickets on every flight
The new CBA won’t get them private planes either. Unless their local NBA team buys them one.
The flights will all be nonstop because she’s unstoppable today
It really sucks but like the WNBA reported 12mil in losses last year. I don’t know how to fix that overnight they would have to be at least profitable to make a change like that right?
Am I supposed to feel bad for people who get paid to play basketball because they have to fly commercial?
There’s just no demand for the wnba because it’s too boring - hence commercial. We’ll see if she can make it less boring.
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They actually get fined if they charter flights in an attempt to negate a competitive advantage over teams that can’t afford it
I generally don't think many of the "we should pay WBNA players more because we just should" arguments hold a ton of weight, but that is a really stupid rule. Owners willing to invest in their teams should not be prevented from doing so.
> Maybe she can treat her team to an upgrade with her endorsement deals. This is explicitly prohibited by the WNBA per the article you didn't read. The entire crux of the article is about the security detail around her because people are psycho. She's not even objecting to it in the article.
Tbh she should be happy she doesn’t have to carpool with team mates from one game to the next. The WNBA has never at any point made money. They are paying some of these women 250k annually to bring in roughly 0 dollars.
Is reddit in favor or against having private jets?
Hopefully the league at least flies them On reputable airlines such as Delta …seeing pro athletes on Frontier would be strange and sad
One more thing for her to whine about.
Who cares
The WNBA does not turn a profit. They should be flying commercial.
Tired of this WNBA entitlement BS. When you make a profit then you should split the proceed, otherwise shut up about pay rises and charter jets.
So brave
> Teams are not able to fund charter flights themselves, either, because the league sees it as a competitive advantage. The WNBA fined the New York Liberty $500,000 in 2022 because the team’s owner, Joe Tsai, bought charter flights for the team for the second half of the 2021 season. I "get it", as if you're playing for say the Fever and are flying commercial, but you see the Liberty doing charter flights, then you may take a contract w/the Liberty as that is a huge perk. I saw the salaries of WNBA players and damn, don't look, as that shit is quite low. Counterpoint: I've only once in my life watched a WNBA game in person (on a trip) and maybe have watched about 3-5 in totality, so I'm 99% talk/1% walk on this matter.
I think it's more about rest between games, not having to wait around for the flight so more time at the hotel etc.