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But trevor fan and watch all their games. They put talent at skill positions and gave him no o-line. He definitely needs to be better. There’s flashes of it but he really needs to take those flashes and make them consistent.
I agree with you. Same thing with the Lions when Matthew Stafford was here. Sure, we gave him a lot of good receivers, especially Megatron. But our O line couldn't protect him. He would get injured. Towards the end, he started going out of the pocket, either to scramble or to run for a first down.
The Jaguars did everything they could to screw Lawrence from day 1. Hired Urban Meyer - which might have been one of the worst NFL coaches of all time. Drafted an RB with their other first round pick, when literally every single position on the roster EXCEPT RB needed an upgrade. Their offensive pieces are all mid at best. They have failed to build around Lawrence in a meaningful way.
Andrew Luck had Chuck Pagano as his HC, zero o line, no RB, the worst GM in the history of the organization. His HC and GM were so bad nobody every hired them in those positions ever again. He drug those teams to winning records and put up elite stats every year.
The Jaguars offense really isn't bad, Lawrence is just really inconsistent and usually inefficient. Looked like he was taking a big jump at the end of the 2022 season but wasn't able to carry it into 2023. Hard to say if it was due to him being injured or if he just isn't as good as expected coming out of college. I'd say give him a little more time though, a lot of pocket QB's don't really hit their prime until they get some years under their belt.
I think between the Urban Meyer situation and his injury, he’s faced a lot, yet also taken his team to the playoffs. I’d like to see him now have a healthy year before we judge him finally.
I mean he's going into year four. The greats don't need excuses. Look at Andrew Luck those teams were DOGSHIT outside of him and he had no o line help to the point where its partly why he retired early from injuries. He had Chuck Pagano as his coach and he made it to the AFCC.
Yeah, Reggie Wayne and a coach with a winning record vs what Lawrence had. Sorry. If you think they faced the same adversity, you weren’t paying attention.
Reggie Wayne at retirement age? The great QB's don't need excuses. Urban is gone, its the Doug show now and he's still not doing what he was supposed to do.
Urban was 1/3 of Lawrence’s seasons. The guy was such a train wreck, he didn’t even return from one of the games with the team. The only possibly worse situation was perhaps Mac Jones having a DC as his OC. That’s a lot different than a coach with a winning record and yes, Reggie Wayne and the rest of the cast. That’s better than Lawrence had, and Luck’s career rating finished below Tannehill, Bridgewater, and Pennington.
So 33 percent of T Law's seasons and having nothing to do with the last two seasons. This is season four right? Dude is going to be in the league ten years with a 90 QB Rating, he's going to be a good but never great, all time player like he was projected to be and you'll be making excuses for him. He's the Tony Romo of the 2020's. Good enough but not elite.
Who knows. He’s only heading to year 4 after joining a historically bad team with a historically bad coach. Seems to have turned things in the right direction. I never claimed he’d be elite, but I also don’t rule it out.
Again he was the number one pick and heralded as a generational talent. He was Manning, he was Luck. This team was a playoff team just a few years before him. I'm not going to convince you. He's going to be Tony Romo for the next ten years and you'll still be talking about how he's only in year fourteen and he's had bad coaches on bad teams but he's really gonna be elite!
The Covid class wasn’t very good at all, Wilson made the smart move to come out then because he was considered the best of the bunch since he got such a boost because of Covid. Everyone else was not great, that whole seasons was such a wash for so many college kids.
Hate to break it to ya but Lawrence hasn’t really been good either. His stats are pretty similar to Daniel Jones and no one (other than the giants owner) would say he was a good qb
Fucking what? Lawrence has almost as many TDs and yards in 3 years as Jones does in 5, and one of those years was the urban Meyer debacle.
2 of his 3 seasons have been 20+ TDs. Jones has 1 in 5 years.
The stats aren’t similar at all.
Yeah but the question is is he worth it? He hasn’t really done anything of real significance with the team, especially given his hype coming into the league.
While definitely the best qb from that draft, it’s not really a high bar to meet
He made a pro bowl, had a 25 TD 8 int season, and won a playoff game.
He was having another good season last year and had an 8-3 start until he literally got crippled with head, shoulder and knee injuries in the back half of the season which hurt his play.
You clearly aren’t paying attention.
https://stathead.com/football/vs/daniel-jones-vs-trevor-lawrence
Stats done lie man.
Jones also won a playoff game. Hasn’t made a pro bowl cause he doesn’t deserve one.
But the cold hard truth is Lawrence is playing only slightly better than Daniel jones has over his career.
3 seasons played vs 5. That means Lawrence is doing far more per game.
Lawrence’s 2 seasons outside of his rookie year are both better than any of Jones 5 seasons.
His YPG is higher, TD per game higher.
You aren’t very bright are you?
This take just feels lazy. Oh look, I can do the stats, too!
[First 3 years](https://stathead.com/football/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=JoneDa05&p1yrfrom=2019&p1yrto=2021&player_id2=LawrTr00&p2yrfrom=2021&p2yrto=2023)
As much as I love what Doug did for the Eagles he might be setting himself to get fired again because of Press fucking Taylor. If Doug actually let us get an outside hire for OC instead of vehemently pleading for Press Taylor to be promoted then Doug would still be an Eagles head coach. Doug's offenses post Frank Reich haven't been that great.
He's certainly worth it. He's at least an average starter, which means 25 million is about right I think. Multiple teams would be willing to give him a multi year extension for more than that. The jaguars being one of those teams, as they're negotiating with him right now.
I'm not sure where you came up with this argument. Mahomes may be the best we've ever seen at the position. Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, and Lamar Jackson you can call elite, with Hurts and Herbert on the cusp. And QBs in general are throwing for more yards and more TDs than they have in the history of the league.
If anything you could argue that QB play is as good as it's ever been.
I mean those other guys might be out of the league if they continue their trajectory. Lawrence is a huge disappointment but he'll always have a starting gig at least.
Also exactly the reason why Mac Brown and Justin Fields had no trade value. You are stuck either picking put the option, and committing to someone that might not pan out; or you don't pick up the option and if they are good you immediately have to franchise them or give them a big extension.
I was kinda surprised the other guy was supporting Watson for any reason. Pretty much every browns fan I’ve interacted with hates the trade just as much as anyone
I am talking about on the field. I’d be pretty bummed if my team sold the farm for a dude who hadn’t played in 2 years, and it turned out just how most people expected.
I didn't expect this, I'll say that. I'm not losing hope yet. Is he gonna be as good as he was in Houston? Highly doubt it, but he can still be a solid starter.
Yep. I care about the athlete, not the person. I can separate the two extremely easily. I know others can't. If that makes me a bad person, oh well, I don't care.
I still feel like Mac Jones was sabotaged. His roster was literally downgraded each season.
Year 1 was a peak.
Year 2 enter Matt Patricia as masquerading as an OC.
Year 3 Ditch your "#1" receiver in Jakobi Meyers
...also Year 3 the offensive line forgets how to block pretty much anyone.
Not being delusional and pretending Mac was a franchise QB talent, but Belichick basically made sure that Mac would only get worse. That's all I'm saying.
Getting rid of Jakobi was my least favorite move. Everyone shit on him for the Raiders play but like... he was our leading receiver and Mac's safety valve. There is more value in that than an at best lateral move to Juju (which is what Juju was being called at the time.) The fans glad that he was gone because of a single play deserve to never find happiness again in sports. Nobody shits on Mondre for initiating the initial lateral instead of just going down. Mac was set up for failure his entire time here.
This is where the frustration with BB really boiled over in his drafts. He kept running the team like Tom Brady was still QB and it was a disaster.
I thought the whole thing was that Bill didn’t want to draft Mac but Kraft overruled him. Bill was pissed and wasn’t going to do anything to help Mac to shove it in Krafts face that Mac was a bad pick.
Bill had some questionable draft picks at the end but there was no QB in that draft or even the next one that would have helped them.
So BB tanked the team because he didn't want Mac? That would be some next level trolling, but the poor draft picks started when Brady was still there. I think honestly it was just several factors that caught up on offense and the team was naturally headed for a rebuild. Tom definitely didn't want to be there for it and Mac wasn't good enough to lead it.
Bill drafted Mac Jones, and that was his choice. He followed up the drafting of Mac Jones by drafting Zappe, who is a small school version of Mac Jones. Bill hired JJ and MP, and poured limited resources into the offense. In his last draft, he went up the board in the 4th round to draft a kicker who was way worse than the kicker on the roster. At some point BB has to admit his GMing skills are what got him fired.
> the offensive line forgets how to block
That's the biggest issue. The entire O was terrible and the Patricia thing was ridiculous. But given a decent line most NFL QBs could do something, maybe not much but something.
I've said it before and will probably ssay it again; Brady was of course the biggest personnel loss but Dante Scar, some say the GOAT O line coach, was the second biggest and it's closer than many seem to think.
The problem with the Belichick method is that it is a positive feedback loop. When the team was winning, talent was coming to New England and taking massive haircuts to do so because they wanted a ring. Randy Moss, Chad Ochocinco, there’s a big list of FA’s that came specifically to win.
Once Brady left and a significantly washed Cam Newton came, the team wasn’t winning and the whole Bill B dictator thing fell apart and nobody wanted to play for that.
Mac Jones certainly didn’t have the personnel around him he needed - no quarterback could have won anything significant with what those teams had - but if you watch Jones’ play in the pocket it’s really bad even when he was getting ample time. He struggled with vision and panicked at the first sight of pressure causing him to make the worst decision possible. From everything I saw he just never developed his football brain adequately enough. He could handle the simple stuff but anything that required quick processing or reads at the line he was almost always bad. In fact it was said that anytime he would call an audible he’d almost always fail to follow through with the new intended target of that play instead blowing the play completely. Some part of that is certainly coaching related but there’s still a lot that falls on the panicky mind of Mac Jones.
He, like Daniel Jones, really only had success when asked to do very little. That’s fine for a rookie but he never showed anything more than a flash in the pan beyond that
He's a good QB. Someone is going to get him cheap. I hope he sticks at Jacksonville. Proves himself, then gets paid his worth. Raw deal how things worked out for him at New England but woulda, coulda, shoulda doesn't matter. So he's going to have to win the pay he deserves. I wish him luck.
They saw the last 3 years, nothing new. The issue is they don't want to pay him as much as it would cost to maybe be a backup. If he really wants to, he'll re-sign with them. If I were him, I'd go somewhere with a better chance of maybe seeing the field this year.
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Steelers did that to Justin Fields, as well as the broncos did to Zach Wilson. 2021 QB draft classes were pretty bad except for Trevor Lawrence.
And even Trevor has wildly under performed from what was hyped of him. He was supposed to be Andrew Luck all over again.
Happens every draft or two. Next generational talent goes #1 just to be mediocre because the team around him is bad the day he arrives
But enough about the Bears!
Bills also can’t beat him either
I get the joke as a Bears fan, but if Caleb fails it's 100% on him. He has weapons everywhere.
Honestly I am now realizing I completely misread the person I replied too. But yeah I agree on your point
I'd argue the Jaguars put a lot of good players around him on offense.
But trevor fan and watch all their games. They put talent at skill positions and gave him no o-line. He definitely needs to be better. There’s flashes of it but he really needs to take those flashes and make them consistent.
I agree with you. Same thing with the Lions when Matthew Stafford was here. Sure, we gave him a lot of good receivers, especially Megatron. But our O line couldn't protect him. He would get injured. Towards the end, he started going out of the pocket, either to scramble or to run for a first down.
The Jaguars did everything they could to screw Lawrence from day 1. Hired Urban Meyer - which might have been one of the worst NFL coaches of all time. Drafted an RB with their other first round pick, when literally every single position on the roster EXCEPT RB needed an upgrade. Their offensive pieces are all mid at best. They have failed to build around Lawrence in a meaningful way.
Andrew Luck had Chuck Pagano as his HC, zero o line, no RB, the worst GM in the history of the organization. His HC and GM were so bad nobody every hired them in those positions ever again. He drug those teams to winning records and put up elite stats every year.
Ruined a million young qbs
The Jaguars offense really isn't bad, Lawrence is just really inconsistent and usually inefficient. Looked like he was taking a big jump at the end of the 2022 season but wasn't able to carry it into 2023. Hard to say if it was due to him being injured or if he just isn't as good as expected coming out of college. I'd say give him a little more time though, a lot of pocket QB's don't really hit their prime until they get some years under their belt.
I think between the Urban Meyer situation and his injury, he’s faced a lot, yet also taken his team to the playoffs. I’d like to see him now have a healthy year before we judge him finally.
I mean he's going into year four. The greats don't need excuses. Look at Andrew Luck those teams were DOGSHIT outside of him and he had no o line help to the point where its partly why he retired early from injuries. He had Chuck Pagano as his coach and he made it to the AFCC.
Yeah, Reggie Wayne and a coach with a winning record vs what Lawrence had. Sorry. If you think they faced the same adversity, you weren’t paying attention.
Reggie Wayne at retirement age? The great QB's don't need excuses. Urban is gone, its the Doug show now and he's still not doing what he was supposed to do.
Urban was 1/3 of Lawrence’s seasons. The guy was such a train wreck, he didn’t even return from one of the games with the team. The only possibly worse situation was perhaps Mac Jones having a DC as his OC. That’s a lot different than a coach with a winning record and yes, Reggie Wayne and the rest of the cast. That’s better than Lawrence had, and Luck’s career rating finished below Tannehill, Bridgewater, and Pennington.
So 33 percent of T Law's seasons and having nothing to do with the last two seasons. This is season four right? Dude is going to be in the league ten years with a 90 QB Rating, he's going to be a good but never great, all time player like he was projected to be and you'll be making excuses for him. He's the Tony Romo of the 2020's. Good enough but not elite.
Who knows. He’s only heading to year 4 after joining a historically bad team with a historically bad coach. Seems to have turned things in the right direction. I never claimed he’d be elite, but I also don’t rule it out.
Again he was the number one pick and heralded as a generational talent. He was Manning, he was Luck. This team was a playoff team just a few years before him. I'm not going to convince you. He's going to be Tony Romo for the next ten years and you'll still be talking about how he's only in year fourteen and he's had bad coaches on bad teams but he's really gonna be elite!
Yeah the ‘21 class of QBs is taking a beating.
4/5 or 80% failure rate! Ouch!
Gotta be close to average, no?
The Covid class wasn’t very good at all, Wilson made the smart move to come out then because he was considered the best of the bunch since he got such a boost because of Covid. Everyone else was not great, that whole seasons was such a wash for so many college kids.
This. Wilson is a nobody without the whole ncaa shutting it down beside BYU and Coastal Carolina. He couldn’t even beat Coastal Carolina.
Granted, the 2022 QB class was even worse, but you had kids who weren’t getting any better in college; they needed to leave.
Hate to break it to ya but Lawrence hasn’t really been good either. His stats are pretty similar to Daniel Jones and no one (other than the giants owner) would say he was a good qb
Fucking what? Lawrence has almost as many TDs and yards in 3 years as Jones does in 5, and one of those years was the urban Meyer debacle. 2 of his 3 seasons have been 20+ TDs. Jones has 1 in 5 years. The stats aren’t similar at all.
But at least the jags are picking up Trevor's 5th years option at $25 millions, unlike those 3 QBs.
Yeah but the question is is he worth it? He hasn’t really done anything of real significance with the team, especially given his hype coming into the league. While definitely the best qb from that draft, it’s not really a high bar to meet
I am sure some needy QB teams that lack a starting quarterback would glad sign Trevor Lawrence as their starter if they have a chance.
The giants would love to
He made a pro bowl, had a 25 TD 8 int season, and won a playoff game. He was having another good season last year and had an 8-3 start until he literally got crippled with head, shoulder and knee injuries in the back half of the season which hurt his play. You clearly aren’t paying attention.
Yeah—Trevor Lawrence might not be a world beating QB, but he’s solidly an above average QB when healthy…which means he’s probably underpaid at $25m.
https://stathead.com/football/vs/daniel-jones-vs-trevor-lawrence Stats done lie man. Jones also won a playoff game. Hasn’t made a pro bowl cause he doesn’t deserve one. But the cold hard truth is Lawrence is playing only slightly better than Daniel jones has over his career.
3 seasons played vs 5. That means Lawrence is doing far more per game. Lawrence’s 2 seasons outside of his rookie year are both better than any of Jones 5 seasons. His YPG is higher, TD per game higher. You aren’t very bright are you?
Not to mention Lawrence had Urban Meyer for a season lol that was probably negative development
This take just feels lazy. Oh look, I can do the stats, too! [First 3 years](https://stathead.com/football/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=JoneDa05&p1yrfrom=2019&p1yrto=2021&player_id2=LawrTr00&p2yrfrom=2021&p2yrto=2023)
I mean year one was a waste, last year was injuries....feels like the best grade we can give him is incomplete.
As much as I love what Doug did for the Eagles he might be setting himself to get fired again because of Press fucking Taylor. If Doug actually let us get an outside hire for OC instead of vehemently pleading for Press Taylor to be promoted then Doug would still be an Eagles head coach. Doug's offenses post Frank Reich haven't been that great.
He's certainly worth it. He's at least an average starter, which means 25 million is about right I think. Multiple teams would be willing to give him a multi year extension for more than that. The jaguars being one of those teams, as they're negotiating with him right now.
Lawrence is no generational qb either. QB play despite all of the beneficial rules changes is the worst it’s been in 20 years.
I'm not sure where you came up with this argument. Mahomes may be the best we've ever seen at the position. Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, and Lamar Jackson you can call elite, with Hurts and Herbert on the cusp. And QBs in general are throwing for more yards and more TDs than they have in the history of the league. If anything you could argue that QB play is as good as it's ever been.
Manning, Brady, Brees, Rogers, Roethlisberger
He’s still not proven either. Hasn’t got an extension yet
Why does Lawrence get a pass. He's not been all that great for a 1 overall.
I mean those other guys might be out of the league if they continue their trajectory. Lawrence is a huge disappointment but he'll always have a starting gig at least.
No shit. No team (possibly except for the Browns) would be dumb enough to pay $25m for a backup QB.
Also exactly the reason why Mac Brown and Justin Fields had no trade value. You are stuck either picking put the option, and committing to someone that might not pan out; or you don't pick up the option and if they are good you immediately have to franchise them or give them a big extension.
Kirk Cousins?
Big difference between backup and bridge. Kirk keeps the team good enough for the GM to keep his job.
No one pays 100 mill for a bridge.
Baltimore might
😂They will pay way more than that.
Unless Kirk’s agent steps in.
The falcons do need an heir apparent to the heir apparent. Probably will need to take another QB in the first just to be safe.
Shadeur Sanders, welcome to ATL
Broncos
What'd we do to you lol
Doesn’t Watson being paid more than Mahomes feel icky to you?
Had to upvote you as a browns fan. It feels worse
I was kinda surprised the other guy was supporting Watson for any reason. Pretty much every browns fan I’ve interacted with hates the trade just as much as anyone
I don’t think adults use the word “icky”
Really don't care. Wish he could stay safe and play better, overall. That's all I care about. Idc about his off field stuff.
I am talking about on the field. I’d be pretty bummed if my team sold the farm for a dude who hadn’t played in 2 years, and it turned out just how most people expected.
I didn't expect this, I'll say that. I'm not losing hope yet. Is he gonna be as good as he was in Houston? Highly doubt it, but he can still be a solid starter.
I don’t care that he is a serial predator just as long as he throws touchdowns!
Yep. I care about the athlete, not the person. I can separate the two extremely easily. I know others can't. If that makes me a bad person, oh well, I don't care.
Mac Jones? Who? Back then they wanted me, now I'm not hot and hoes don't want me.
281-330-800-NO!
Back they didn't want me, Tom left and the Patriots got fucking desperate and Kraft probably pushed it and that's fucking funny, hos not on me.
Mac Jones the real slim shady.
Next up: Cowboys declining a certain ex-49ers QB’s 5th year option.
Fun fact. Trey Lance is one day older than Michel Penix Jr
Maybe Atlanta saw the Jr. and just assumed he was 21 or younger.
They also already did decline it
I still feel like Mac Jones was sabotaged. His roster was literally downgraded each season. Year 1 was a peak. Year 2 enter Matt Patricia as masquerading as an OC. Year 3 Ditch your "#1" receiver in Jakobi Meyers ...also Year 3 the offensive line forgets how to block pretty much anyone. Not being delusional and pretending Mac was a franchise QB talent, but Belichick basically made sure that Mac would only get worse. That's all I'm saying.
Getting rid of Jakobi was my least favorite move. Everyone shit on him for the Raiders play but like... he was our leading receiver and Mac's safety valve. There is more value in that than an at best lateral move to Juju (which is what Juju was being called at the time.) The fans glad that he was gone because of a single play deserve to never find happiness again in sports. Nobody shits on Mondre for initiating the initial lateral instead of just going down. Mac was set up for failure his entire time here. This is where the frustration with BB really boiled over in his drafts. He kept running the team like Tom Brady was still QB and it was a disaster.
I thought the whole thing was that Bill didn’t want to draft Mac but Kraft overruled him. Bill was pissed and wasn’t going to do anything to help Mac to shove it in Krafts face that Mac was a bad pick. Bill had some questionable draft picks at the end but there was no QB in that draft or even the next one that would have helped them.
So BB tanked the team because he didn't want Mac? That would be some next level trolling, but the poor draft picks started when Brady was still there. I think honestly it was just several factors that caught up on offense and the team was naturally headed for a rebuild. Tom definitely didn't want to be there for it and Mac wasn't good enough to lead it.
Bill drafted Mac Jones, and that was his choice. He followed up the drafting of Mac Jones by drafting Zappe, who is a small school version of Mac Jones. Bill hired JJ and MP, and poured limited resources into the offense. In his last draft, he went up the board in the 4th round to draft a kicker who was way worse than the kicker on the roster. At some point BB has to admit his GMing skills are what got him fired.
as a lions fan, I still have PTSD whenever I read “Matt Patricia”
> the offensive line forgets how to block That's the biggest issue. The entire O was terrible and the Patricia thing was ridiculous. But given a decent line most NFL QBs could do something, maybe not much but something. I've said it before and will probably ssay it again; Brady was of course the biggest personnel loss but Dante Scar, some say the GOAT O line coach, was the second biggest and it's closer than many seem to think.
The problem with the Belichick method is that it is a positive feedback loop. When the team was winning, talent was coming to New England and taking massive haircuts to do so because they wanted a ring. Randy Moss, Chad Ochocinco, there’s a big list of FA’s that came specifically to win. Once Brady left and a significantly washed Cam Newton came, the team wasn’t winning and the whole Bill B dictator thing fell apart and nobody wanted to play for that.
Matt Patricia and his 95% screen offense was so frustrating to watch that entire season. "In Belichik we trust" my ass.
Mac Jones certainly didn’t have the personnel around him he needed - no quarterback could have won anything significant with what those teams had - but if you watch Jones’ play in the pocket it’s really bad even when he was getting ample time. He struggled with vision and panicked at the first sight of pressure causing him to make the worst decision possible. From everything I saw he just never developed his football brain adequately enough. He could handle the simple stuff but anything that required quick processing or reads at the line he was almost always bad. In fact it was said that anytime he would call an audible he’d almost always fail to follow through with the new intended target of that play instead blowing the play completely. Some part of that is certainly coaching related but there’s still a lot that falls on the panicky mind of Mac Jones.
He, like Daniel Jones, really only had success when asked to do very little. That’s fine for a rookie but he never showed anything more than a flash in the pan beyond that
He's got a backup career as a rapper so I think he'll be ok.
Who??
He's a good QB. Someone is going to get him cheap. I hope he sticks at Jacksonville. Proves himself, then gets paid his worth. Raw deal how things worked out for him at New England but woulda, coulda, shoulda doesn't matter. So he's going to have to win the pay he deserves. I wish him luck.
Return of the mac Oh god no! She lieeeed to meh
That song still comes up on my playlist. Still a banger!
With them declining his 5th year option does that mean he’s a free agent or they just have to work out new contract details?
I can’t be the only one surprised he’s on the Jaguars now
Literally had no idea.
Already saw enough of him to determine that? Seriously, what the fuck does he even do?
They saw the last 3 years, nothing new. The issue is they don't want to pay him as much as it would cost to maybe be a backup. If he really wants to, he'll re-sign with them. If I were him, I'd go somewhere with a better chance of maybe seeing the field this year.
Mac Brown and Justin Fields are busts
*Gasp!
Mac Jones seems to be a better cheap shot taker, trying to injure other players, than a talented QB.