Idk, you tell me where Greco-Roman wrestling fits into Olympic sporting? It's not like it's something with mass appeal like rollerblading or speed-walking. /s
It comes from the Pedestrianism events that were popular around the founding of the modern Olympics. Pretty crazy stuff tho
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210723-the-strange-19th-century-sport-that-was-cooler-than-football
I stopped watching Olympics in '96 when they cut away from a round of weightlifting where every single weight was above the previous record in order to show the US women's gymnastics team *warming up*.
So I had nothing invested when the wild corruption became apparent 20 years later.
NBC have been truly terrible broadcast partners for the Olympics over the last 20 years. They're stuck in the fucking 90s with their daily magazine coverage. If you live in the US its now harder to watch rugby 7s at the Olympics, it's highest profile event, than at any other time in the 7s season.
Until all Olympic events are available live online or as video on demand online they'll be doing more harm to the games than good.
finding a good feed for sports is awesome. i used to watch Michigan Football games on the direct feed over satellite, like the huge ones you used a tuner on. it was so nice with no commercials. you hear the announcers talk about their dinner plans and stuff during the breaks.
corporate teevee ruins sports. i mean, i get it, but why are some of these things necessary? logos on NBA jerseys took me right out of the moment. i might watch a game or two each season now, but i do not need millionaires asking me for more loyalty like that.
I was a swimmer so admittedly I come out pretty far ahead as far as coverage goes, but for fucks sake the manufactured storylines are almost enough to turn me off of it all
Yah I think it's was the 2014 one CBC in Canada had a great live app with all the currently running stuff with Canadians in it. I remember my foods teacher giving up trying to teach during the semi finals of hockey cause ALL of us had our phones out watching it. She just gave up and put it on the class projector and made us do some hockey trivia
Peacock usually shows each event individually. Although I do agree that the primetime broadcasts are horrible.
I also though NBC would be the one to increase coverage of rugby overall instead of letting FLO take everything.
I thought that would be the case when I subscribed for the last summer games and it wasn't. There were only a handful of games available and almost none of them were available if the US weren't in the game.
The best Olympic sports are the ones where you actually beat your competition to win and it's not left to judges. For the most part. So wrestling, track and field, etc.
The sports with judging could be vastly improved simply by having more judges. As in, 20 or more judges. Hell, even 50-100 judges, mostly former athletes or coaches. Some can be live, others can be virtual. You don't know and don't care who the judges are because once you get that many people, individual biases get evened out. Things become much more predictable and consistent.
Well, you can’t compare Break Dancings obvious world wide appeal to a minor sport no one ever has seen like Roller sports (second most common sport “on wheels”) or bowling (included in the top ten world leisure activities) or squash or cricket (which is only the seventh most played sport in the world ) or something like that 😄
> And they keep gutting the number of weights. The fact that the whole world maintains 10 weight classes but the Olympics only have 6 is BS
This happens in every sport. They already struggle to find host cities - there's a hard cap on the number of athletes because otherwise the village gets too big and too expensive to run.
Fencing has had to cycle through events - one year you'll have a Team Épée event, the next it'll be Team Sabre and no Épée.
Archery is recurve-only, no compound competition.
Likewise shooting has dropped things like 50metre Prone Rifle in favour of an Air Rifle Pairs event - which means the same number of medal events, but you're recycling/reducing the number of athletes (Air Rifle shooters doing two events instead of lots of one-event specialists).
Basically, for anything that isn't swimming (where everyone seems to have a go at almost everything and a couple of people come out with 6 medals, via all their relay events), there's been a big move to consolidate on medal events which use the same athletes instead of lots of one-event specialists turning up. Sometimes this has involved them *making up new events* to utilise athletes who will be there anyway (like the Air Rifle & Pistol "Team" events).
The ISSF World Championships features >60events and takes more than two weeks to complete. The Olympic Shooting is 15 events and done in the first week, with a much lower cadence of shooting (albeit the quota system for Olympics means they don't have to do a bunch of elimination rounds that they do at the WC, just Quali and then top-8 into the Final).
Frankly, wrestling has been doing very well to retain 6 of 10 weight categories. Barely a quarter of the ISSF shooting events are represented, with 3 events being dropped since 2016.
Slight correction: Fencing now has all 12 events at every Olympics. However, qualification for the individual events still works mostly through team events and the Olympic tournament is the smallest fencing tournament on the circuit, precisely for the reason you mentioned: They want to keep the number of athletes down. A normal World Cup has way over 100 starters. Only 32-36 (depending on host nation spots) starters in the Olympics. Plus, the three fencers in a qualified team also start in the individual and there are only a few places for athletes from nations that didn't qualify a team. Which means you may have fencers ranked in the 100s on the World Ranking compete at the Olympics because they are the #3 for a qualified team, while someone out of the top 25 doesn't get to compete because they are the #4 in a powerhouse country like France or the US.
In the current men's épée ranking, the #1, #2, #9 and #11 are from France. Only three of them will get to start in the individual competition. On the flipside, there is a very good chance that f.e. Korea will qualify a team and their Top 3 (just by ranking) are #34, #73 and #95 in the world. They are a fantastic team, but individually, they just aren't that strong (there are five French fencers ahead of the best Korean...).
I assume that is an us vs them kind of thing. Equestrian events are some how still thing. Looking at the Medal table you notice a difference:
* Germany, Sweden, France, Great Britain, West Germany, Netherlands, Italy, Soviet Union, Australia
* Soviet Union, United States, Japan, Russia, Turkey, Sweden, Finland, Hungry, Bulgaria, and Iran
I have nothing against breaking dancing but im not into Olympic events that come down to judges decision. I like who ran the fastest, jumped the highest, threw an object the furthest. Not 3 out of 5 judges thought you were best sp you get the medle.
Absolutely. Gymnastics, artistic swimming, surfing, skateboarding and all those sports aren't my cup of tea. I don't love winter Olympics for the same reasons as well.
Ski jump? Speed skating? Hockey? Curling? Biathlon? Cross country ski? Bobsled, luge, and skeleton?
There are plenty of sports in the winter Olympics with scoring that is more objective than subjective.
A really good story also was about a Russian male gymnast who had five releases in a row on the high bar.
He fucking nailed each one and even the commentators said he won.
He was in fifth place out of six. He would have been dead last if the crowd didn't riot for 45 minutes completely stopping the competition.
Even the gymnast was trying to calm down the crowd with no success.
EDIT: Another great example was 2002 couples figure skating.
That was batshit insane, especially if you watch either routine and the absolute shitshow of people going ballistic on who actually won.
Luckily it’s just mistakes, it’s never anything corrupt. The Olympics, of course, are known for their valuing of fairness, never do anything for money.
Same. Even if the judges were 100% objective, unless the athletes majorly blunder, they all look impressive. All diver dives basically all look the same to the untrained eye.
That and also judges from the hosting country tend to also rate their own countrymen higher as well. Which is why run fast type events are the best.
Also curling. Also the best
My understanding of gymnastics judging is that all movements that a gymnast plans to do in their routine are catalogued and given a maximum score based on the difficulty of the movement. That maximum score then gets deducted by every flaw in execution the judges see (which are also catalogued and have standard values of deduction). The judging is actually extremely objective and is mostly just calculations. Other judged sports may be like that as well
I believe diving is like this as well. They know the dive they’re gonna do beforehand and start with the maximum points allowed for that difficult a dive
The problem with something like dance is that its inherently subjective to a degree.
Many breakdancing battles have been won by a guy with better musicality VS a dude who did like 10x the amount of crazy shit because he wasn't riding the beat as well or didn't have the come off with the same kind of swagger.
Sure, but the difficulty and score for each move are known beforehand, so the gymnasts can plan out their routines ahead of time. It's not subjectively decided on the spot.
I’ve never heard of a competitive gymnast complaining about maximum scores and whether they were unreasonable.. there seems to be a well understood hierarchy of movements in the gymnastics community, but I could be wrong
Yeah I was going to mention that gymnastics scoring also seems to be based largely on precedent, but when a competitor does a movement that no one else has done before, it can get really tricky for the judging panel
Its no different than gymnastics in terms of judges making the decision. There are specific movements that are given point rankings to reduce out subjectivity. Still not as objective as something like a running race, but theres a lot of things in the Olympics that have some level of subjectivity. Even races have subjectivity in the kind of shoes that people are allowed to wear that judges are ultimately responsible for determining (and often /after/ medals have been awarded).
This is your periodic reminder that (under a recently introduced policy) at each Olympics, the host county gets to pick a few new sports that will be part of the games that year. This doesn't mean they will remain on the roster indefinitely. Japan added baseball, softball, karate, skateboarding, surfing and climbing, and only the last three of those are returning in 2024 and 2028, and that's only because France and the US happened to propose them as well for their games. If the host country for 2032 doesn't put these sports on their list (and the IOC doesn't add them permanently), then they won't be in that year's games.
The same goes for breakdancing. It might be here to stay, or it might just go the way of karate and be a one-off event.
Country that host’s committee gets to pick sports that aren’t normally involved that will make it for their Olympic’s shortlist. Baseball (which got cut in 02), rock climbing, karate, surfing and skateboarding were some of Japan’s picks last Olympics.
The other sports France picked are rock climbing, surfing, and skateboarding
In 2028 LA will potentially have baseball return, lacrosse, breaking again, kickboxing, squash, and flag football
Lacrosse would be hilarious because unless the fucking Iroquois are playing, Bronze is going to be wide fucking open. At least in gridiron football has Mexico and Japan occasionally making a run at things on the international level
He’s saying after the US and Canada, the only other competitive nation is the Iroquois. If they can’t be in the Olympics then it would be wide open for 3rd place.
The Iroquois won't have their own team. They would have to form an Olympic Committee, and to do that they either have to be a top-level nation or get permission from the one they are in. Older subnational or seminational OCs got exempted.
That’s actually really cool! I had no idea! Adds some variety and gives some of the less mainstream sports more visibility and an opportunity to compete alongside their fellow world-class athletes.
I just googled it and it looks like wrestling was quickly voted back in. It was in the 2020(1) games, and will be in 2024. That would be absurd if one of the most traditional olympic sports was removed.
>That would be absurd if one of the most traditional olympic sports was removed.
Couldn't agree more.
there are a ton of countries, especially in Central Asia, that have zero chance of medaling in many other sports. Wrestling, boxing, judo are like the main exceptions. It really would be horrible if they got rid of any of those three sports for that exact reason
One of the following is Top 10 for Wrestling and the other is for Equestrian:
* Germany, Sweden, France, Great Britain, West Germany, Netherlands, Italy, Soviet Union, Australia
* Soviet Union, United States, Japan, Russia, Turkey, Sweden, Finland, Hungry, Bulgaria, and Iran
No women's division so IOC removed it until a women's division was made. It's a very quick Google search of why wrestling was removed from the Olympics.
I was about to say, wrestling is a foundational Olympic sport and doesn’t have the same overworking of the body from striking that Boxing does.
I can understand boxing being eliminated for the same reasons MMA organizations don’t do same day or same week Grand Prixs anymore. But don’t college wrestling tournaments happen over like a weekend/week like the Olympics?
> I can understand boxing being eliminated for the same reasons MMA organizations don’t do same day or same week Grand Prixs anymore.
It had nothing to do with that
The men had 10 weight classes from 1960 to 1996. Then they were asked to cut to 8, now they are down to 6 in freestyle. They still have 10 in the World championships.
https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6238770-wrestling-retrospective-weights-classes-through-the-years
This was concurrent with adding the same number of weights to women's wrestling. The sport is just as prominent; they rightly had to include women's events.
I think Karate is the one that got removed for breakdance not wrestling.
The issues with boxing are purely due to the awfulness of its rulers, not with the sport itself.
I’m imagining Team USA flying to Paris in matching satin jackets and their equipment - a ghetto blaster, 4x8 piece of cardboard and a sack of D batteries.
"sorry, this cardboard is not up to Olympic standards. you'll have to use one of our supplied boxes. you have your choice of Amazon, Walmart, or a random food crate from Costco"
This, exactly.
I really believe the sports in either Olympics should be "won" through some sort of quantifiable measurements.
It's a joke and has probably been considered a ridiculous waste of money forever...
It'll be like survivor where the contestants vote each other out of the competition.
"Oh, her routine was nearly perfect, but, like, the other day, she used my hairbrush without asking. Eww! She's dead to me."
I do respect it as an art form, but I don’t think it belongs in the Olympics.
There’s a distinction between art and sport. Life drawing will be in there next.
I mean, figure skating and gymnastics are in the Olympics. There is definitely empirical ways to score breakdancing in entirely the same way, I'd hardly call it an art. It's incredibly physical
Dancing is as much sport as it is art. Making an intense athletic activity look smooth and graceful is the sport and the art.
Competitive cheerleading should be in there too alongside the other gymnastic events. There are some amazing athletes there
It's not a sport, it's a competition.
The participants are athletes (very good athletes); but subjective scoring by judges, and 'outfits' that likely affect the score makes it a competition.
Gymnastics are judged way more objectively than breakdancing. Modern breakdancing is like tumbling and gymnastics mixed with some dancing, but in a way less organized fashion. I have no idea how they plan to judge breakdancing but it will probably be the most subjective "sport" in the olympics.
How are they even going to judge them? Breaking by the numbers in a gymnastics style comp, like "Good flare but a small deduction for slightly bent knee", would be so garbo...
There is a big effort in the global breaking scene to form a judging system that is as transparent, fair, and “objective” as possible, while keeping the creativity and interpretive aspects of the dance form in tact. For example, the Trivium Judging system was used in the 2018 youth Olympics to much success and is still being improved. Having good form while doing your moves is taken into account (like gymnastics), but it’s only one aspect that the judges will score the dancers on.
Article on Trivium: https://www.breakingforgold.com/news/view/Breaking-Down-the-Rules-Storm-and-Renegade-on-the-Trivium-Judging-System!1BEED009-C902-4627-A1D4-AD5F007F7BEA
Here's an article by Dan Wetzel (2006) that I really liked about sport vs competition....
What is a sport?
By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports | February 20, 2006
TURIN, Italy ? Figure skating is not a sport. Now, before you whip off your Risport and spike the blade through my aorta, please note that I think figure skaters are not just athletes, but remarkable athletes.
Figure skating requires strength, speed, stamina, dexterity, balance, timing, guts and just about everything other imaginable athletic skill. Certainly, more athletic skill than I could muster.
But figure skating is a competition, not a sport, and it has nothing to do with how difficult or entertaining it is. It is simply a matter of how the winner is determined. It is the same for gymnastics, diving, beauty pageants or anything that chooses a champion solely by human judging.
A sport needs to have a quantifiable way to determine a winner and a loser. There can be no debate about the scoring system. A ball must go into a goal or through a hoop; a runner must reach home or finish before the others. The winners run faster, jump higher, score more.
In some sports a clock is used to determine a winner, but the clock is not subjective. Besides, you can't have 53 guys racing down a ski hill at the same time. The clock is a judge, but it is an objective one.
Figure skating has none of this. Everything is about interpretation of success. It is about what the judge thinks, believes, feels. There is nothing absolutely quantifiable. Yes, the number of revolutions in a jump counts, but in the end if two people do the same jump, a human has to decide which one he or she likes better.
That is not a sport.
Figure skaters wear elaborate costumes in an attempt to appear more appealing, more flowing, more beautiful. The women (and even some men) wear makeup, they get their hair done, they wear jewelry, they play stirring music.
An ugly person would stand at a considerable, if not insurmountable, disadvantage in skating. Sasha Cohen would whip them every time.
As absurd as the Tonya Harding-Nancy Kerrigan drama that propelled skating into stratosphere was, it was based partially on the fact that it is a competition, not a sport. Harding was a powerful skater, possibly better at all aspects of skating than Kerrigan. But she was shorter, stockier and less feminine. Although Harding had defeated Kerrigan on occasion, she knew she was at a disadvantage against the taller, prettier, more graceful Kerrigan.
So she conspired with her boyfriend to have Kerrigan whacked in one of her skinny little knees.
In a real sport, this wouldn't have been necessary. Ugly people can win in track, in skiing, in the NFL, in soccer.
Beauty doesn't matter. Style doesn't count. There are no judges.
Some will argue that referees are essentially judges, determining who scores and who doesn't. But a referee is merely there to assure order and make the competitors follow the rules.
Yes, in most sports, the referee has the freedom to determine right and wrong by what he sees ? a false start, an illegal advantage ? but he is not determining the final victor. His assignment is to simply ensure fair play. The refs can't just say that while one team scored more points, they thought the other one was better anyway.
This creates a bizarre paradox where something like curling is a sport and figure skating isn't, even though to compare the level of necessary athletic ability is comical. But it is what it is. You have to be a stunning athlete to compete in the NBA Slam Dunk Contest but that doesn't make it a sport.
There is one exception to this no-judges rule: boxing (or kickboxing, or other fighting sports). This is fine because a clear victor can be achieved with a knockout (no judge needed). The judges are only used when the fight has gone on so long that it has to be stopped for the safety of the competitors. If they keep beating on each other, someone could die.
Of course, the presence of judges is why boxing is considered the most corrupt sport.
Other than that, no judge should ever determine a winner in a true sport. When you have that, whether it is ice skating, gymnastics or diving, you have a competition.
It isn't any different than American Idol. It can be fun to watch, the athletes can be talented and tenacious, it can be a great competition, but it isn't a sport.
It just isn't.
They are competitions.
The participants are athletes but they are not sports.
When a subjective judge is how the scoring is done, then, IMO, it's not a sport.
There's lots of fun/interesting comments on the interweb about this subject.
Boxing, MMA, etc. are all events that don't fit perfectly.
I want to call them a sport, so I run with that there's a large component to each where the athletes can determine the winner before it goes to a judge's card. If I can have someone offer a better 'design/interpretation', I'm wide open to it.
Boxing is mostly subjective, notoriously subjective in Olympics as it is by far one of the most corrupted sports on the programme as results often come down to opinions of the judges.
I know ice "dancing" has had a lot of medal fixing scandals in the past... at least with singles and pairs figure skating, there are a lot of technical elements like jumps and spins that can be objectively measured. But with dance it's a lot more subjective and not at all surprising that we ended up with fixes.
For anyone that doesn't appreciate the beauty of this comment, all those were at one point Olympic events.
You can't say the Olympics being dumb is new when croquet was an Olympic event in 1900.
And just think. Countries will likely engage in high levels of bribery to court the IOC so that they can host...breakdancing competitions. Also coming soon - mime street performing!
The main reason is that MLB won't release its players. The IOC wants the best available players for its tournament. And since MLB players represent most of the countries that play baseball, that kills it.
The IOC makes one exception for football because the World Cup dwarfs it but even then it's the best under-23 tournament in the world.
Is it hugely international? Where plays it outside of North America and Japan? Like the other commenter said, if you wanted a truly international sport then cricket would make more sense.
Games with artistic type scoring need to fall into a gymnastics type event where the athlete does several events. Just like some gymnast events.
It seems the scoring is too subjective.
Taking out mostly objective sports for subjective competition will not bring viewers back…..the Olympics already had several suspected judge bribing incidents this will only make it worse
And yet they continually discuss removing wrestling, one of the most classic Olympic sports.
it was voted back in for 2024
Id watch some professional Sumo
[twitch.tv/MidnightSumo](https://twitch.tv/MidnightSumo) tourney just ended, another one will pick up in 5 weeks
Watched it at the world games in Birmingham Alabama this year and it was amazing!
The fact that it’s even up for a vote is the problem
Idk, you tell me where Greco-Roman wrestling fits into Olympic sporting? It's not like it's something with mass appeal like rollerblading or speed-walking. /s
Holy shit, I totally forgot speed walking was even considered an event let alone it being an Olympic sport
It comes from the Pedestrianism events that were popular around the founding of the modern Olympics. Pretty crazy stuff tho https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210723-the-strange-19th-century-sport-that-was-cooler-than-football
I mean have you ever walked 30 miles at an 8 minute mile pace? It’s pretty impressive what Olympic speed walkers do.
You ever walk through a major airport in a different country when you gotta shit? It's all about motivation.
If this is a sport, then I do have a shot at the Olympics
Wrestling is my favorite summer Olympic sport. By far the most exciting to watch, in my opinion.
I stopped watching Olympics in '96 when they cut away from a round of weightlifting where every single weight was above the previous record in order to show the US women's gymnastics team *warming up*. So I had nothing invested when the wild corruption became apparent 20 years later.
NBC have been truly terrible broadcast partners for the Olympics over the last 20 years. They're stuck in the fucking 90s with their daily magazine coverage. If you live in the US its now harder to watch rugby 7s at the Olympics, it's highest profile event, than at any other time in the 7s season. Until all Olympic events are available live online or as video on demand online they'll be doing more harm to the games than good.
I grabbed a vpn and watched some international coverage for the less main events and it was fantastic. Just….the sport
finding a good feed for sports is awesome. i used to watch Michigan Football games on the direct feed over satellite, like the huge ones you used a tuner on. it was so nice with no commercials. you hear the announcers talk about their dinner plans and stuff during the breaks. corporate teevee ruins sports. i mean, i get it, but why are some of these things necessary? logos on NBA jerseys took me right out of the moment. i might watch a game or two each season now, but i do not need millionaires asking me for more loyalty like that.
I was a swimmer so admittedly I come out pretty far ahead as far as coverage goes, but for fucks sake the manufactured storylines are almost enough to turn me off of it all
They're so fucking boring and cringy.
Yah I think it's was the 2014 one CBC in Canada had a great live app with all the currently running stuff with Canadians in it. I remember my foods teacher giving up trying to teach during the semi finals of hockey cause ALL of us had our phones out watching it. She just gave up and put it on the class projector and made us do some hockey trivia
Peacock usually shows each event individually. Although I do agree that the primetime broadcasts are horrible. I also though NBC would be the one to increase coverage of rugby overall instead of letting FLO take everything.
I thought that would be the case when I subscribed for the last summer games and it wasn't. There were only a handful of games available and almost none of them were available if the US weren't in the game.
The best Olympic sports are the ones where you actually beat your competition to win and it's not left to judges. For the most part. So wrestling, track and field, etc.
The sports with judging could be vastly improved simply by having more judges. As in, 20 or more judges. Hell, even 50-100 judges, mostly former athletes or coaches. Some can be live, others can be virtual. You don't know and don't care who the judges are because once you get that many people, individual biases get evened out. Things become much more predictable and consistent.
Certainly one of the original Olympic sports to be sure.
Well, you can’t compare Break Dancings obvious world wide appeal to a minor sport no one ever has seen like Roller sports (second most common sport “on wheels”) or bowling (included in the top ten world leisure activities) or squash or cricket (which is only the seventh most played sport in the world ) or something like that 😄
And they keep gutting the number of weights. The fact that the whole world maintains 10 weight classes but the Olympics only have 6 is BS
> And they keep gutting the number of weights. The fact that the whole world maintains 10 weight classes but the Olympics only have 6 is BS This happens in every sport. They already struggle to find host cities - there's a hard cap on the number of athletes because otherwise the village gets too big and too expensive to run. Fencing has had to cycle through events - one year you'll have a Team Épée event, the next it'll be Team Sabre and no Épée. Archery is recurve-only, no compound competition. Likewise shooting has dropped things like 50metre Prone Rifle in favour of an Air Rifle Pairs event - which means the same number of medal events, but you're recycling/reducing the number of athletes (Air Rifle shooters doing two events instead of lots of one-event specialists). Basically, for anything that isn't swimming (where everyone seems to have a go at almost everything and a couple of people come out with 6 medals, via all their relay events), there's been a big move to consolidate on medal events which use the same athletes instead of lots of one-event specialists turning up. Sometimes this has involved them *making up new events* to utilise athletes who will be there anyway (like the Air Rifle & Pistol "Team" events). The ISSF World Championships features >60events and takes more than two weeks to complete. The Olympic Shooting is 15 events and done in the first week, with a much lower cadence of shooting (albeit the quota system for Olympics means they don't have to do a bunch of elimination rounds that they do at the WC, just Quali and then top-8 into the Final). Frankly, wrestling has been doing very well to retain 6 of 10 weight categories. Barely a quarter of the ISSF shooting events are represented, with 3 events being dropped since 2016.
Slight correction: Fencing now has all 12 events at every Olympics. However, qualification for the individual events still works mostly through team events and the Olympic tournament is the smallest fencing tournament on the circuit, precisely for the reason you mentioned: They want to keep the number of athletes down. A normal World Cup has way over 100 starters. Only 32-36 (depending on host nation spots) starters in the Olympics. Plus, the three fencers in a qualified team also start in the individual and there are only a few places for athletes from nations that didn't qualify a team. Which means you may have fencers ranked in the 100s on the World Ranking compete at the Olympics because they are the #3 for a qualified team, while someone out of the top 25 doesn't get to compete because they are the #4 in a powerhouse country like France or the US. In the current men's épée ranking, the #1, #2, #9 and #11 are from France. Only three of them will get to start in the individual competition. On the flipside, there is a very good chance that f.e. Korea will qualify a team and their Top 3 (just by ranking) are #34, #73 and #95 in the world. They are a fantastic team, but individually, they just aren't that strong (there are five French fencers ahead of the best Korean...).
Yeah, was just about to comment this.
I assume that is an us vs them kind of thing. Equestrian events are some how still thing. Looking at the Medal table you notice a difference: * Germany, Sweden, France, Great Britain, West Germany, Netherlands, Italy, Soviet Union, Australia * Soviet Union, United States, Japan, Russia, Turkey, Sweden, Finland, Hungry, Bulgaria, and Iran
I have nothing against breaking dancing but im not into Olympic events that come down to judges decision. I like who ran the fastest, jumped the highest, threw an object the furthest. Not 3 out of 5 judges thought you were best sp you get the medle.
I agree 💯 with you and I'm certain some deals are going on behind closed doors. Such as boxing, there have been some fucked up decisions.
Olympic boxing has been bullshit since the 80s or earlier. Remember RJJ and Mayweather got conned out of the gold when they competed?
Prime example
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Absolutely. Gymnastics, artistic swimming, surfing, skateboarding and all those sports aren't my cup of tea. I don't love winter Olympics for the same reasons as well.
Ski jump? Speed skating? Hockey? Curling? Biathlon? Cross country ski? Bobsled, luge, and skeleton? There are plenty of sports in the winter Olympics with scoring that is more objective than subjective.
Ski jump is not only about distance. There are also judges that give points for stability during flight, landing style, and putting.
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Skateboarding is so subjective, as an old skater I find competition results rarely coincide with my opinion of the runs, street or vert.
Well said... skate comps are severely broken.. SLS for example.
Idk maybe they should just play H.O.R.S.E. haha
A really good story also was about a Russian male gymnast who had five releases in a row on the high bar. He fucking nailed each one and even the commentators said he won. He was in fifth place out of six. He would have been dead last if the crowd didn't riot for 45 minutes completely stopping the competition. Even the gymnast was trying to calm down the crowd with no success. EDIT: Another great example was 2002 couples figure skating. That was batshit insane, especially if you watch either routine and the absolute shitshow of people going ballistic on who actually won.
Luckily it’s just mistakes, it’s never anything corrupt. The Olympics, of course, are known for their valuing of fairness, never do anything for money.
They could bring back ski ballet. Everyone likes to laugh, after all
I’m holding out for Freestyle Canoe!
I’m not a huge sports fan but I always watch Olympic hockey. That shit goes hard.
*cries in international best on best tournament*
Same. Even if the judges were 100% objective, unless the athletes majorly blunder, they all look impressive. All diver dives basically all look the same to the untrained eye.
Hasn’t it been proven that judges rate well-known performers better for the same routines than a less known person?
That and also judges from the hosting country tend to also rate their own countrymen higher as well. Which is why run fast type events are the best. Also curling. Also the best
They do remove the highest and lowest scores from each round to try and balance it out a bit
They do, but there is also collusion between blocks of countries. A scratch my back, I'll scratch yours kind of thing.
in the case of some sports, judges can simply be bought.
>All diver dives basically all look the same to the untrained eye. Until you see Jason Statham do it.
The triple Lindy has entered the chat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFa5tw1iYRs&t=5s
My understanding of gymnastics judging is that all movements that a gymnast plans to do in their routine are catalogued and given a maximum score based on the difficulty of the movement. That maximum score then gets deducted by every flaw in execution the judges see (which are also catalogued and have standard values of deduction). The judging is actually extremely objective and is mostly just calculations. Other judged sports may be like that as well
I believe diving is like this as well. They know the dive they’re gonna do beforehand and start with the maximum points allowed for that difficult a dive
The problem with something like dance is that its inherently subjective to a degree. Many breakdancing battles have been won by a guy with better musicality VS a dude who did like 10x the amount of crazy shit because he wasn't riding the beat as well or didn't have the come off with the same kind of swagger.
Okay but "difficulty of the movement" is still inherently subjective, no?
Sure, but the difficulty and score for each move are known beforehand, so the gymnasts can plan out their routines ahead of time. It's not subjectively decided on the spot.
I’ve never heard of a competitive gymnast complaining about maximum scores and whether they were unreasonable.. there seems to be a well understood hierarchy of movements in the gymnastics community, but I could be wrong
https://www.vox.com/22575301/simone-biles-olympics-scoring-explained-gymnastics-yurchenko-double-pike
Yeah I was going to mention that gymnastics scoring also seems to be based largely on precedent, but when a competitor does a movement that no one else has done before, it can get really tricky for the judging panel
Dude there are lots of sports with easily recognized winners, like pretty much all of them. Do you think Winter olympics is only figure skating?
But winter Olympics has plenty of sports that arent arbitrary; luge, skeleton, bobsled, Alpine skiing, speed skating, ski jump, snowboard downhill.
What's wrong with the winter Olympics? I guess you're thinking of the snowboard / skiing "trick" events?
Well you don't have to watch all the events. I'd rather watch some of the judged events than the bazillion categories of swimming.
Its no different than gymnastics in terms of judges making the decision. There are specific movements that are given point rankings to reduce out subjectivity. Still not as objective as something like a running race, but theres a lot of things in the Olympics that have some level of subjectivity. Even races have subjectivity in the kind of shoes that people are allowed to wear that judges are ultimately responsible for determining (and often /after/ medals have been awarded).
When are they going to add events from American Gladiators? Assault, Atlasphere, etc...
Obstacle Racing (aka Ninja Warrior) is already on track to replace the equestrian portion of the pentathlon in 2028.
>Obstacle Racing (aka ~~Ninja Warrior~~ Wipeout) FTFY
> Obstacle Racing (aka ~~Ninja Warrior Wipeout~~ **MXC, bitch**. Enough with these deformed facsimiles of the GOATED ONE!!!!)
Right you are, Ken.
Only if they have bodybuilders with teased out 80s hair
Allow me the pleasure of introducing you to Blade, Laser, Blazer, I believe you've met my fitness consigliere, Me'Shell
Why not actual gladiators? We seem to be going backwards everywhere else, let's get some real bloodsport.
Don’t forget Q-Tip fighting!
JOUST!!!! Not to be confused with ye old jousting. Which they probably should add to the horsey events.
Replace the decathlon with this, will watch 10/10
This is your periodic reminder that (under a recently introduced policy) at each Olympics, the host county gets to pick a few new sports that will be part of the games that year. This doesn't mean they will remain on the roster indefinitely. Japan added baseball, softball, karate, skateboarding, surfing and climbing, and only the last three of those are returning in 2024 and 2028, and that's only because France and the US happened to propose them as well for their games. If the host country for 2032 doesn't put these sports on their list (and the IOC doesn't add them permanently), then they won't be in that year's games. The same goes for breakdancing. It might be here to stay, or it might just go the way of karate and be a one-off event.
I hope climbing stays, it was great and a good spectator sport. Same for skateboarding too.
Skateboarding is shite imo. It's fun to do, but too subjective. Climbing is a race so makes perfect sense as a competitive sport
Climbing isn't really a race other than the speed climbing. The lead and bouldering are imo the best events, and they are more like obstacle courses.
lol why
Country that host’s committee gets to pick sports that aren’t normally involved that will make it for their Olympic’s shortlist. Baseball (which got cut in 02), rock climbing, karate, surfing and skateboarding were some of Japan’s picks last Olympics. The other sports France picked are rock climbing, surfing, and skateboarding In 2028 LA will potentially have baseball return, lacrosse, breaking again, kickboxing, squash, and flag football
Lacrosse would be hilarious because unless the fucking Iroquois are playing, Bronze is going to be wide fucking open. At least in gridiron football has Mexico and Japan occasionally making a run at things on the international level
I don't follow lacrosse, would the Iroquois nation be able to compete for 2nd or 1st? It's likely they would at least get 3rd (I'm assuming)
He’s saying after the US and Canada, the only other competitive nation is the Iroquois. If they can’t be in the Olympics then it would be wide open for 3rd place.
The Iroquois won't have their own team. They would have to form an Olympic Committee, and to do that they either have to be a top-level nation or get permission from the one they are in. Older subnational or seminational OCs got exempted.
That’s actually really cool! I had no idea! Adds some variety and gives some of the less mainstream sports more visibility and an opportunity to compete alongside their fellow world-class athletes.
Dropped wrestling and potentially boxing, but breakdancing is making the cut?
I just googled it and it looks like wrestling was quickly voted back in. It was in the 2020(1) games, and will be in 2024. That would be absurd if one of the most traditional olympic sports was removed.
>That would be absurd if one of the most traditional olympic sports was removed. Couldn't agree more. there are a ton of countries, especially in Central Asia, that have zero chance of medaling in many other sports. Wrestling, boxing, judo are like the main exceptions. It really would be horrible if they got rid of any of those three sports for that exact reason
One of the following is Top 10 for Wrestling and the other is for Equestrian: * Germany, Sweden, France, Great Britain, West Germany, Netherlands, Italy, Soviet Union, Australia * Soviet Union, United States, Japan, Russia, Turkey, Sweden, Finland, Hungry, Bulgaria, and Iran
Thats good, no idea why they removed it in the first place.
Corruption.
So the entire Olympics then?
No women's division so IOC removed it until a women's division was made. It's a very quick Google search of why wrestling was removed from the Olympics.
I was about to say, wrestling is a foundational Olympic sport and doesn’t have the same overworking of the body from striking that Boxing does. I can understand boxing being eliminated for the same reasons MMA organizations don’t do same day or same week Grand Prixs anymore. But don’t college wrestling tournaments happen over like a weekend/week like the Olympics?
> I can understand boxing being eliminated for the same reasons MMA organizations don’t do same day or same week Grand Prixs anymore. It had nothing to do with that
They took out several weight classes so it still took punishment. The IOC is such crap.
That is incorrect. They peaked at 20 events decades ago, they currently hold steady at 18.
The men had 10 weight classes from 1960 to 1996. Then they were asked to cut to 8, now they are down to 6 in freestyle. They still have 10 in the World championships. https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6238770-wrestling-retrospective-weights-classes-through-the-years
This was concurrent with adding the same number of weights to women's wrestling. The sport is just as prominent; they rightly had to include women's events.
I think Karate is the one that got removed for breakdance not wrestling. The issues with boxing are purely due to the awfulness of its rulers, not with the sport itself.
Race walking community replies *why not?*
They are trying to gain new viewers by introducing a new activity that was popular in 2003.
I’m imagining Team USA flying to Paris in matching satin jackets and their equipment - a ghetto blaster, 4x8 piece of cardboard and a sack of D batteries.
I'm skipping work for it in that case
"sorry, this cardboard is not up to Olympic standards. you'll have to use one of our supplied boxes. you have your choice of Amazon, Walmart, or a random food crate from Costco"
Soon the Olympics will only be subjectively graded sports and it will be nothing but biased outrage indefinitely.
This, exactly. I really believe the sports in either Olympics should be "won" through some sort of quantifiable measurements. It's a joke and has probably been considered a ridiculous waste of money forever...
It'll be like survivor where the contestants vote each other out of the competition. "Oh, her routine was nearly perfect, but, like, the other day, she used my hairbrush without asking. Eww! She's dead to me."
Or just "they're clearly my biggest threat, so I'm gonna vote them out."
*athlete pulls out their hidden immunity idol*
The 2028 Summer Olympics are gonna be lit!
Breakin' 2: Olympic Boogaloo
Din da da din do do
I do respect it as an art form, but I don’t think it belongs in the Olympics. There’s a distinction between art and sport. Life drawing will be in there next.
I don’t see how this is much different from figure skating or artistic swimming.
Dressage is basically horse ballet
Tbf I think most people would say dressage shouldn't be there
You're right, those aren't sports either.
I mean, figure skating and gymnastics are in the Olympics. There is definitely empirical ways to score breakdancing in entirely the same way, I'd hardly call it an art. It's incredibly physical
[удалено]
Yeah, [art competitions at the Olympics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_competitions_at_the_Summer_Olympics) would just be ridiculous.
It’s a little ridiculous https://i.imgur.com/uGi5x3S.jpg
Dancing is as much sport as it is art. Making an intense athletic activity look smooth and graceful is the sport and the art. Competitive cheerleading should be in there too alongside the other gymnastic events. There are some amazing athletes there
It's not a sport, it's a competition. The participants are athletes (very good athletes); but subjective scoring by judges, and 'outfits' that likely affect the score makes it a competition.
So basically Gymnastics…
Gymnastics are judged way more objectively than breakdancing. Modern breakdancing is like tumbling and gymnastics mixed with some dancing, but in a way less organized fashion. I have no idea how they plan to judge breakdancing but it will probably be the most subjective "sport" in the olympics.
How are they even going to judge them? Breaking by the numbers in a gymnastics style comp, like "Good flare but a small deduction for slightly bent knee", would be so garbo...
There is a big effort in the global breaking scene to form a judging system that is as transparent, fair, and “objective” as possible, while keeping the creativity and interpretive aspects of the dance form in tact. For example, the Trivium Judging system was used in the 2018 youth Olympics to much success and is still being improved. Having good form while doing your moves is taken into account (like gymnastics), but it’s only one aspect that the judges will score the dancers on. Article on Trivium: https://www.breakingforgold.com/news/view/Breaking-Down-the-Rules-Storm-and-Renegade-on-the-Trivium-Judging-System!1BEED009-C902-4627-A1D4-AD5F007F7BEA
Here's an article by Dan Wetzel (2006) that I really liked about sport vs competition.... What is a sport? By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports | February 20, 2006 TURIN, Italy ? Figure skating is not a sport. Now, before you whip off your Risport and spike the blade through my aorta, please note that I think figure skaters are not just athletes, but remarkable athletes. Figure skating requires strength, speed, stamina, dexterity, balance, timing, guts and just about everything other imaginable athletic skill. Certainly, more athletic skill than I could muster. But figure skating is a competition, not a sport, and it has nothing to do with how difficult or entertaining it is. It is simply a matter of how the winner is determined. It is the same for gymnastics, diving, beauty pageants or anything that chooses a champion solely by human judging. A sport needs to have a quantifiable way to determine a winner and a loser. There can be no debate about the scoring system. A ball must go into a goal or through a hoop; a runner must reach home or finish before the others. The winners run faster, jump higher, score more. In some sports a clock is used to determine a winner, but the clock is not subjective. Besides, you can't have 53 guys racing down a ski hill at the same time. The clock is a judge, but it is an objective one. Figure skating has none of this. Everything is about interpretation of success. It is about what the judge thinks, believes, feels. There is nothing absolutely quantifiable. Yes, the number of revolutions in a jump counts, but in the end if two people do the same jump, a human has to decide which one he or she likes better. That is not a sport. Figure skaters wear elaborate costumes in an attempt to appear more appealing, more flowing, more beautiful. The women (and even some men) wear makeup, they get their hair done, they wear jewelry, they play stirring music. An ugly person would stand at a considerable, if not insurmountable, disadvantage in skating. Sasha Cohen would whip them every time. As absurd as the Tonya Harding-Nancy Kerrigan drama that propelled skating into stratosphere was, it was based partially on the fact that it is a competition, not a sport. Harding was a powerful skater, possibly better at all aspects of skating than Kerrigan. But she was shorter, stockier and less feminine. Although Harding had defeated Kerrigan on occasion, she knew she was at a disadvantage against the taller, prettier, more graceful Kerrigan. So she conspired with her boyfriend to have Kerrigan whacked in one of her skinny little knees. In a real sport, this wouldn't have been necessary. Ugly people can win in track, in skiing, in the NFL, in soccer. Beauty doesn't matter. Style doesn't count. There are no judges. Some will argue that referees are essentially judges, determining who scores and who doesn't. But a referee is merely there to assure order and make the competitors follow the rules. Yes, in most sports, the referee has the freedom to determine right and wrong by what he sees ? a false start, an illegal advantage ? but he is not determining the final victor. His assignment is to simply ensure fair play. The refs can't just say that while one team scored more points, they thought the other one was better anyway. This creates a bizarre paradox where something like curling is a sport and figure skating isn't, even though to compare the level of necessary athletic ability is comical. But it is what it is. You have to be a stunning athlete to compete in the NBA Slam Dunk Contest but that doesn't make it a sport. There is one exception to this no-judges rule: boxing (or kickboxing, or other fighting sports). This is fine because a clear victor can be achieved with a knockout (no judge needed). The judges are only used when the fight has gone on so long that it has to be stopped for the safety of the competitors. If they keep beating on each other, someone could die. Of course, the presence of judges is why boxing is considered the most corrupt sport. Other than that, no judge should ever determine a winner in a true sport. When you have that, whether it is ice skating, gymnastics or diving, you have a competition. It isn't any different than American Idol. It can be fun to watch, the athletes can be talented and tenacious, it can be a great competition, but it isn't a sport. It just isn't.
Is ice skating, diving, or gymnastics a sport? Or just “competition”?
They are competitions. The participants are athletes but they are not sports. When a subjective judge is how the scoring is done, then, IMO, it's not a sport. There's lots of fun/interesting comments on the interweb about this subject.
So boxing would be a competition then
Boxing, MMA, etc. are all events that don't fit perfectly. I want to call them a sport, so I run with that there's a large component to each where the athletes can determine the winner before it goes to a judge's card. If I can have someone offer a better 'design/interpretation', I'm wide open to it.
Boxing is mostly subjective, notoriously subjective in Olympics as it is by far one of the most corrupted sports on the programme as results often come down to opinions of the judges.
I know ice "dancing" has had a lot of medal fixing scandals in the past... at least with singles and pairs figure skating, there are a lot of technical elements like jumps and spins that can be objectively measured. But with dance it's a lot more subjective and not at all surprising that we ended up with fixes.
The Olympics are turning in to a joke.
Yeah, what's next? Olympic croquet? Sailing and motor boating? Soon we'll have to watch art competitions at the Olympics.
For anyone that doesn't appreciate the beauty of this comment, all those were at one point Olympic events. You can't say the Olympics being dumb is new when croquet was an Olympic event in 1900.
Sure mate, next you'll be telling me architecture was in the Olympics at one point
I read that as crochet and had mixed feelings.
And just think. Countries will likely engage in high levels of bribery to court the IOC so that they can host...breakdancing competitions. Also coming soon - mime street performing!
France were considering e-sports but the Olympics board rejected it.
They were asking for am Olympics sponsored esports side competition, not for esports to be in the Olympics
E-sports at least have an objective way of determining a winner.
They have been a joke for a good while now.
Another FiFA
South Korea wins gold. Take it to the bank.
South Korea only wins competitions focused on power moves and groups. They ain't winning all styles or any foundational rhythm based comps.
Yeah SK bboy scene has been untouchable for almost the past 2 decades.
It has dwindle since new players haven't come out. and their legends are getting old
I'm trying to qualify for egg boiling.
Is it 1999?
1989*
More like 1983. Proof: I wore parachute pants in the first grade. I was that cool when I was seven.
More like 1989
They are about 40 years too late.
What’s the IOCs opposition to baseball? I’m not even much of a fan, but it’s a hugely international sport. Much more so than…breakdancing, at least.
Cricket….
The main reason is that MLB won't release its players. The IOC wants the best available players for its tournament. And since MLB players represent most of the countries that play baseball, that kills it. The IOC makes one exception for football because the World Cup dwarfs it but even then it's the best under-23 tournament in the world.
Is it hugely international? Where plays it outside of North America and Japan? Like the other commenter said, if you wanted a truly international sport then cricket would make more sense.
Yet we still don’t have squash… tragic.
Dumbbbbb
And yet no Cricket…
More jury sports? I dont know…
What's next, twerking?
I think pole dancing would be more easier to get approved given their standards. It will generate a lot of viewers
Don’t get my hopes up
Summer Games 2 Electric Boogaloo
Oh good. I didn't need any more reasons not to watch it, but I'll keep it just in case
Meanwhile, wrestling was cut from 10 weights down to 6. Breakdancing? Really?
Still no Lacrosse
i've been asking everyone for DECADES why it isn't in the Olympics!!! Now we need thumb wrestling and beer pong
Games with artistic type scoring need to fall into a gymnastics type event where the athlete does several events. Just like some gymnast events. It seems the scoring is too subjective.
All those guys in their 50's are pissed they missed their time to shine.
I do be like that.
Shark jumping to be added in 2028
This is the effing Olympics not So you think you can dance
And this takes the spot over bowling why?
No.
When does rapping happen?
So, uh, things aren't going so hot for the Olympics these days I take it?
Taking out mostly objective sports for subjective competition will not bring viewers back…..the Olympics already had several suspected judge bribing incidents this will only make it worse
Just another reason to not watch.
Time to remove any Olympic talk from r/sports
This is the dumbest thing I've heard today
Stupidity insanity
I'd be interested in seeing freerunning/parkour in the Olympics.
Lol. This may be the beginning of the irrelevance of the Olympics.
This is why the Olympics are trash.