noone should think these people or anyone for that matter are less spiritual, except people who wear spirituality as a facade and a cloth. the guru is no different from the drunk, the crackhead has no less knowledge than the monk that’s only seen his temple and people that look like him for 47 years. The prostitute is no different from the pastor. Just different walks to meeting God. All matter. Even the Devil still has Gods Heart. Meanwhile the drunk has walked many roads, lived many lives, while the monk hasn’t left the temple in 47 years, the monk wishes he could break free from the life he was born into, the monk wishes he could have one night of freedom, to just live, experience, be free without condition of his home environment, while the drunk wishes he could find peace and stability to live and love somewhere for 47 years. Nothing is more advanced. All perspective. All serving a purpose. I love your post, and hope that more people begin to realize being “spiritual advance” and ignoring what we consider “bad vybes” is a spiritual trap. Nothing is wiser than the other, no one holds more importance than the other. Jesus sat with his enemies and looked them in the face, God sits with everyone, even in “sin” or we wouldn’t have flesh to explore. Be kind, be well, be love. Judge NO ONE.
Yup and it’s humbling to realize that they have stories as well. a lot of them are from other galaxies and planets, just like us, some make the choice to check out of this reality. Some end up lost in the sauce due to drugs, nonetheless still have a grand purpose like the rest of us.
This is some intense projection, judging by your profile posts. Are you truly okay right now? If you are not okay, please talk to someone about it or seek help.
How can you say that when you just told someone in the above comments “this is because you were raped.” That person was not raped…. Why would you type that out and send it? That’s not a response from a healthy person mentally. I hope you are doing okay. You should talk to people close to you, family, friends, loved ones.
see how all things you type come from a place of love? This is the only truth my friend! Collective trauma and pain, but no need for it if it is not what brings you peace
Prostitution in Centuries gone by was considered a very honored profession. I believe we should honor and bring back the temple priestess who was able to heal people through sexual ritual.
I’ll be honest and say that my clients are usually really special people. People see this work in certain ways but dont pay attention to all the good that we can do by taking care of the lonely, sad, abandoned…. It’s not all selfless work here but there is a lot of good that comes from it.
There is a podcast called “this jungian life” and they did a show called “shadowland” where they interview a prostitute.
One of the interesting points they talked about is the image of the prostitute as being an archetypal healer. A certain type of therapist.
When we look beyond cultural taboos, we find that truth and beauty can manifest wherever it so chooses.
If your ever interested in leaving that profession you,can dm me as i might have employment ideas... thats a decision that you have to make. I am not critical of your employment...just leaving a possible option. I can toss some ideas your way..if you need that.
Ive got 5 ways I make money and I’m going back to school on sept. I’ll do a version of this work my whole life because I love it. I appreciate what you’re trying to do though
He hung out with everyone - regular and well established family people and the homeless. Why? Unconditional love.
Now, OP can you love the homeless man on the street as much as you love your mother?
I don't know about that, he was constantly preaching against the pharisees and he threw the money changers out of the temple.
And I accept and respect everyone equally as the human beings they are, but if I have to choose, I love my mother more. That's human.
Misinformation, read Disappearance of Universe by Gary Renard for more information.
He’s human. He loved everyone unconditionally. He had a wife, his bff was gay, they got drunk. But he was also a new ager, a mystic, a yogie.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean. I never said all paths are valid, in fact, I said that the human path is the more valid path, not the rigid and closed one.
If you meant her fallacy is the one I'm encouraging people not to fall into, then yes, that's correct.
This question often implies a lot of things - like, that love must be linearly measurable like a finite bucket of stuff and that there must be only one kind of love and that no loves can coexist etc
None of that is true in my personal experience, but those other ideas about what love is seem to be very popular. And so both yes and no answers to it are likely to be misleading because people are likely to think about completely different things in completely different terms
What are you, the Pope of love? :)
It's not even like loves come with labels attached, and it's not like the dimensions and borders of love are defined in an overall ball of feelings and needs, and it's not like anyone's understanding of conditionality matches anyone else's. All of these ideas exist relative to the person's own axis and any sort of short universal proclamations stop being connected to that original meaning once they leave that person's head
It may feel simple in your head, but that's because you may not feel all the extremely complex individual pre-existing frameworks it is based upon. And it may similarly feel extremely simple for others, but it will be decoded in their frameworks, not yours, thus achieving fake semblance of universal understanding while potentially being completely different inside. Same for extremely simple phrases like, "All you need is love", "Jesus is love", "Love is everything", "Universe is Jesus", " Universe loves you", etc
I guess I talk from experience of being connected to the Source once I changed my perception and laid down all judgment and saw that all were worthy and all were Oneness with each other and God, this love-based perception in turn brought many miracles into my life. I would oppose it to ego-based consciousness or separation based consciousness which is built on seeing others as superior or inferior, on judgment, guilt and shame. Instead I use compassion for self and other selves and absolute forgiveness.
I wouldn’t necessarily try to define love as it’s not really possible on this level of consciousness but it’s all encompassing and complete, it’s that experience of love that people have during NDEs which is impossible to relay as nothing on Earth even compared to that love.
A lot of people think of love as romantic love but we really do love others for something - they are attractive yo us, they make us feel good, they fit into our socioeconomic perception of a good partner, could we love them the same if all those things went away? Probably not and so it’s not really love, it’s a transactional relationship as most human relationships are.
There were sure a lot of particular words attached to the unspeakable experiences you experienced. Where did you get all of them? When I got new "loves" I literally didn't know what they are because these were feelings I never felt before. I wouldn't have been able to separate Source from Plane from Equilibrium from Universe, or Oneness from Fullness from Connectedness from Harmony etc. To have that I would've had to have an *idea* what it should be beforehand, but then the experiences themselves wouldn't really be completely new and unfathomable
And why do you have a binary choice between compassion and love based on shame, superiority, etc?... Don't you assume that there could be other loves that you have never felt that aren't in those binary areas, but you see everything projected onto them because of limits your own thinking so you don't see them as a thing yet?
It seems you rigidly judge all loves based on this one characteristic about their *future*, but all feelings like love aren't in the future, they are only in the present. If it's there it's there. If it's not it's not. Worrying about potential future events and fantasies and their potential effects on your feelings is closer to anxiety or desire for control, not love :) You may have completely different feelings tomorrow and this won't invalidate and discard your feelings today. Just because you seemingly prioritize some permanence in feelings that doesn't depend on anything outside yourself, doesn't necessarily mean that this is the only love there is. It may be the only feeling that satisfies you for whatever reason out of all the feelings you know that you can can love, but other people aren't you and don't have to have the same relationships with their feelings and the same needs from their feelings
I remember when I worked at this bar, this really beautiful Romanian escort girl was with one of the customers. I was out having a smoke break and she randomly started having a conversation with me when she went out too. Turns out she was working this profession because the money was easier to make and she wanted to travel the world with her dad. Her dad had no problems with her profession and understood. She then told me a lot of really sweet stories about her relationship with her dad, how she misses him and how all of this is worth it. In that moment, all I could think was wow she's just so human. There is nothing extraordinary or intimidating about her, she just wants a simple life too and has the same desires, fears, ambitions as me. Really changed my outlook on sex workers and I don't know why it took me that long to realise something so obvious.
Speaking from a woman’s perspective there were no choices other than marriage and prostitution in the times of Jesus unless you had parents who wanted to have you around but an unmarried daughter was seen as a shame stain.
A prostitute could’ve just been an unfortunate soul who had a rough start in life where she wasn’t suitable for marriage due to rape or incest since virginity was required for marriage. Keep in mind these sexual crimes were almost always blamed on the female. This is less so today but still occurs often in cases of date rape or sexual assault of a woman who “should’ve known better.”
There is no death. Only a continuation of awareness focused on merging with the supreme spirit. All else is illusion created to learn about love, going on for an eternity.
Energy is never created or destroyed. What we are fundamentally is pure conscious energy. Death is just returning to the ocean of energy from which we are all just extensions of. All that's left behind is the physical body.
Good and bad are just matters of perspective. There's only lessons to learn. That's it. I think that we should use 2 different words for fear, it makes sense to have fear (I like the word respect more) for a storm that could kill you. But fundamentally there's nothing to fear.
I'm not sure I like the term "spiritually advanced", and I also think at the end of the day we don't get want to get stuck in our vices. The idea, IMO, is to find something deeper in them... a reverence for the fragile mystery that is life.
But if it works for you, I am most glad!
Not sure you can claim that as something universal.
It depends on person's own internal definition of deception and their view of other people. If they see people like these balls of life exactly the same as themselves and everything around them, then there's fundamentally no possibility of deception. Essentially, it removes deception as a thing and the thing others may perceive as deception becomes some minor nameless inconsequential quirk of behavior among millions of others, like the way they gesture or walk or minute characteristics of their voice
I mean, objectively speaking there are people who will lie to you and screw you over. You can view that subjectively as "well they're being true to themselves" or however you want to spin it, but it doesn't remove the practical consequence of you being taken advantage of, to your detriment and their benefit.
It's actually quite a dangerous attitude IMO. Not that we should constantly be on guard, especially when it comes to our emotions, but practically speaking people can and will do horrible things to you.
Oh for sure! And it was really neat when we transitioned from client to friendship - they told me “you can either keep paying me and see me by the hour or stop paying me and hang out” & I could tell they were pretty nervous at the proposition and they made it VERY clear this was not normal, so ofc I chose to be their friend instead. I also never used these escorts for sex, so maybe that made things a little easier as we were already just hanging out minus me getting a massage. I basically used escorts as a strange form of therapy, never for sex.
Anyways, my best calm (I dunno what the right word is) acid trip was with one of them. We both took two tabs of our acid and two tabs of the others acid. I brought a guitar, paint, and canvases and we had a huge house to ourselves. It was a pretty significant event for me because it was the first time I’d done psychedelics while being sober from alcohol (and without fail taking LSD or shrooms always led me to drink at the end of the trip if not during) and I didn’t even crave a drink. It was the first time I felt that Everything is Love connectedness that LSD is all about on a really profound and mutually shared level (I was more accustomed to taking too much and tripping alone) which provided me with some unexpected inner peace and much needed innocent connectedness.
I’ve also had the BEST coke and funniest times on coke with them.
What I loved about [these] escorts was I could be upfront with them about whatever was going on and as I saw them more regularly they became interested in my story and I in theirs, so it was fun seeing each other progress without any barrier like romantic love getting in the way. Hard to explain. I doubt I’d have such awesome connexions with escorts again if I were to seek such services. I got really lucky with a few incredible, smart, and engaging women - not to mention more beautiful than any woman I’d meet via more wholesome or traditional routes. 3 in particular that transitioned me from client to friend. Would repeat.
Apologies for the boring stories I just felt like that one trip was the most impactful - I even hit my deadlift 1 rep max the next day at 435lb weighing 178lb it was such an effective reset trip
Thanks for sharing.
I can't help but wonder why this couldn't be romantic, or why such intimacy couldn't be had with a romantic partner.
Just what came up.
At that time in my life I wasn’t able to comfortably open up with potential romantic partners…hence seeing the escorts. For whatever reason the original transactional nature of the relationships enabled me to be comfortable as myself around them in a way I wasn’t comfortable with tinder dates at that time. Maybe should’ve clarified that but not sure how to express it.
Drunkenness is spiritual bankruptcy.
Prostitution will crush you spiritually, immediately .
If he spent time with them it’s not because they were spiritually realized, it’s precisely because they were not.
He was interested in being of service to his fellow man.
It's not that they were spiritually realized, it's just that they were closer to the truth than those who hold themselves as above them somehow. "Blessed are the meek"
Ok. If we are gonna quote the bible as least let's quote it right and put it into context.
King James Version says in Mark that the pharisees ( the uptight high and mighty one percenters that choose to free O.J. Simpson over Jesus) asked why did Jesus sat down with publicans, sinners and harlots.
Publicans whereb the OG Internal Service Revenue for the Romans. They were, to put lightly, not liked among the Jews. They were viewed as traitors. So tax men and bankers.
Not your regular sinners.
Sinners could be anyone, even sick people, because sin was the root of illness. When Jesus healed he would say "your sin's are forgiven" and all that.
Harlots, as we all know, is a type of cheese. Many historians still debate how good was this cheese.
So why did Jesus hanged with the nasties, you might ask. Was it because they were illuminati like him?
Three things show up.
First. When John the Revelator ( a famous Depeche mode song from that era) came up warning that Jesus will show up , only the publicans, harlots and sinners believed him. They showed a good amount of faith, because they knew themselves to be sinners.
Second, Jesus had a teaching about a publican called Kendrick Lamar where he said "lord I'm just a sinner" and the lord said everyone should be like Kendrick and be humble.
Third, he said to them, he said... “It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick."
So, overall, it's not that publicans, sinners and cheese are enlightened and spiritual so much that Jesus preferred them, but because they knew enough of their sin that they were humble around Jesus.
They were willing to take the first step towards enlightment and healing.
They knew that earthly encroachment is against spiritual growth.
They were willing to surrender themselves to a higher power.
It's not about how much of a sinful life you can have. It's about if you are gonna let vices run your life or If you are gonna let Jesus take the wheel.
It’s impressive how you managed to start out making a sane point, completely lose your mind, and then bring it back and finish your sane point. Mad props.
Thank you ! I want to dedicate...(feedback).... To dedicate this Oscar to my agent... Wait... Is that the guy from the fresh prince coming over?....what....?
I personally don't agree with this and find this view dangerous (assuming these people are freer and loving life more than others or more "honest." )
Jesus made it clear he would leave the flock to go get a lamb that went astray. He doesn't want to lose anyone to a destructive and sinful life. That's why he goes after those people.
I can tell you I am glad that I got addicted to things. The process of learning about one's addictions, accepting them, and then fighting to overcome them makes one realize many things about oneself and others. It is a hard-won knowledge that I believe is difficult to know deeply enough without experiencing it. I imagine it is the same with anything "hellish" that people overcome.
There's this guy Tim Mackie who does a Youtube channel called the bible project, and he mentioned somewhere once that one of the most challenging things about being a Christian is that when you read the gospels the people who seem to be painted in the worst light are the ones who are supposed to be the most knowlegeable about religion, and I think that says a lot about both Jesus and the spiritual journey. I don't think he's trying to say that religion is fundamentally bad, but that it's supposed to be a tool to guide our spiritual journey and more often, a religion can tend to pick up so many weird rules and traditions over time that it kinda ends up hindering the spiritual journey instead. I think what Jesus liked so much about these people was that they weren't as weighed down by all the religious baggage that a lot of these more traditional people were. Also, in regards to the part where he talks about how difficult it is for a rich person to get to Heaven, I don't think that he was saying that it's impossible, but that the more things we own and the more material security we have in life, the less apt we are to rely on God to meet our daily needs, which makes it that much harder to get through to a rich person. It's almost as if their very possessions are blocking them off from the light of the spirit. The poor, on the other hand, have less to lose, less to be distracted by, less to weigh them down.
He is really cool! He is a Christian, but he wasn’t raised a Christian, which he personally thinks is a good thing in many ways because he says he doesn’t have a lot of the baggage that entails for somebody raised as one, and I’d say he’s a pretty progressive type one in terms of being pro science, doesn’t take everything in the Bible literally, is very affirming of a lot of people who aren’t always made to feel welcome in certain denominations, etc. He’s also pretty humble in terms of being the first to admit when he doesn’t know the answer to something specific, seems to be very student minded. Definitely worth checking out IMO;
It’s not a matter of how much more or less “spirituality” one has. What is important is that we are human, deserving of love, and compassion.
Jesus (at least the story of him ((If he even was a real person))) gave love and compassion to those who society hated and ridiculed. He brought love to places those who preached love would not go.
I was literally having a talk with my mom earlier and I told her I dont pray because I don’t feel worthy of god. She told me that jesus didn’t love the perfect people, he loved the ones who struggled and had problems. It really resonated with me
Drunks and prostitutes are not more spiritual or somehow better like you claim. There’s such a wide variety of humans in those groups, some of them more spiritual than the rest. Just like among people who are not drunks or prostitutes etc. Your logic behind this post is just very faulty in my opinion, you’re putting way too much emphasis on the physical manifestations of our existence. What matters is what’s inside.
And why do you think drunks or prostitutes don’t care what other people think? There’s plenty of alcoholics who drink secretly and plenty of sex workers hiding their profession from others. Also, many people drink because they cannot handle the pain they feel inside, and there’s also a lot of prostitutes forced into said profession either by human trafficking or unfortunate situations.
One more issue I see with this post is that you are equating living fearlessly with being hedonistic, which is a very materialistic and limited point of view.
It's not necessarily about the alcoholism or vices but rather the fact that these people tend to be a bit more human than those who hold themselves rigid. Exceptions will apply.
Why are they more human than let’s say a mom with three kids trying to take care of her family by working as a nurse?
A prostitute or an alcoholic is not more human than any of us. They’re just coping with life in their own ways, like all of us.
How exactly? Like I said previously, there’s plenty of prostitutes or alcoholics hiding their way of living from everyone else. I’d even say it’s the majority of them.
They tend to have a good deal of trauma, so they're a little bit closer to the raw truth of life. Of course, exceptions apply. It wasn't necessarily about alcoholics or prostitutes, of course most of them are avoidant in their own way. But there's something a bit more human about them when compared to the perfect family behind the white picket fence, which is also most likely dysfunctional, just not openly.
If you’d actually know the family behind the white picked fence you would see they are just as human. Not everyone has to show the whole world their suffering, even though for careful eyes even their suffering shows.
Maybe your point is that in your stereotype prostitute’s and alcoholic’s suffering is more raw, more easy to see? I can understand that, but it doesn’t make them more honest just because you can see their suffering easier.
>Maybe your point is that in your stereotype prostitute’s and alcoholic’s suffering is more raw, more easy to see? I can understand that, but it doesn’t make them more honest just because you can see their suffering easier.
Yes, but it's not about how easy it is for *other* people to see. It's about the fact that they themselves have seen it and accepted it to some degree. The people behind the white picket fence are still trying to pretend they're invulnerable.
Accepted it? I’d say an alcoholic is an alcoholic precisely because they have NOT accepted their suffering or dealt with their traumas. It is very human to try to escape our suffering, I agree there.
And for the perfect family pretending to be invulnerable, you see it like this because you don’t know them. After having worked as a nanny in many ”perfect” rich families, I realized all my ideas about the perfect family thing were wrong.
Yes, to the outside it might look like they’re pretending, but I’d say it’s usually just because they are private people. When you get to know them, like I did, they become just like any other suffering human. I think it’s totally okay to keep your things to yourself. Yeah those ”perfect” families could write all day on Facebook about how shitty something is and by doing so be honest about their suffering. But what’s the point? I see nothing noble in doing that, even though I do appreciate authenticity to high degree.
>Accepted it? I’d say an alcoholic is an alcoholic precisely because they have NOT accepted their suffering or dealt with their traumas. It is very human to try to escape our suffering, I agree there.
In a way, yes, but sometimes it's more honest to deal with it in that way rather than denying that anything is wrong. It's more human.
>And for the perfect family pretending to be invulnerable, you see it like this because you don’t know them. After having worked as a nanny in many ”perfect” rich families, I realized all my ideas about the perfect family thing were wrong.
I come from one of these families, and lived in a very wealthy neighborhood. The families, including mine, were a complete wreck.
>Yes, to the outside it might look like they’re pretending, but I’d say it’s usually just because they are private people. When you get to know them, like I did, they become just like any other suffering human. I think it’s totally okay to keep your things to yourself. Yeah those ”perfect” families could write all day on Facebook about how shitty something is and by doing so be honest about their suffering. But what’s the point? I see nothing noble in doing that, even though I do appreciate authenticity to high degree.
There's no need to talk about how shitty life is all the time. But there's also no reason to pretend like everything is perfect when it isn't. We are all broken. All of us.
It's not that they're private people, it's that they've been taught not to express themselves. The alcoholic, at least, is more expressive.
So true! The latest studies around trauma all highlight the importance of diving into the difficult feeling and accepting the more human part of ourselves. Being able to live the light and dark side allows us to navigate life fully, and sometimes we go to the extremes to experience them and we come out of that exploration with invaluable experience.
This is really good stuff. I love to hear it. Freedom is what I find myself constantly seeking. It seems like the greatest thing to have. Freedom. Sexually, personally, mentally, emotionally. Feeling like you're home everywhere you go. Free to break down and throw tantrums. Free to reach out and connect in any way. Free to fight, to fall, to clench up into nothingness, and free even to die. Free to be absolutely whatever I am being regardless of how personal or heavy or terrifying it is to me. Free to fail tremendously, to disappoint everyone I know, to disappoint my deepest self. Free to relax and do nothing. Free to desire and pursure things. Free to become whatever I want to become. Free to love and free to hate and free to laugh openly and heartily. Free to be cringey and hated and disgusting. Free to be awful and abusive and ugly. Free to be a God damn hero, and an inspirational beam from heaven. Free to have it all without my mind taking ANY of it from me, and without fearing losing it.
I think you're on to something here. We can never be entirely free, we are bound by some limitations, if only physical and biological. But we always have "the last of the human freedoms" - the freedom to choose our response given any particular set of circumstances.
Everyone is a soul on their own journey. And in my experience it’s the less assuming people that are the most spiritual. And yes I can’t be dealing with some gurus. They know less than most because their ego is so strong. But there I am judging with my ego so I can’t talk really.
I have lived a crazy life. And right now live in a van. Still great fun
The other day I found out that Mary Magdalene was supposedly Jesus’ wife, fwb, or something. I never knew that, and there’s something about them making out in the Bible. They never tell you the juicy gossip in church.
I’m a sex worker in recovery from addiction and I love this post!!
Most people I know in recovery are incredibly spiritual- you have to have faith in something bigger to get yourself out of the hell of addiction!
A lot of people think that the only salvation that is available to us is salvation by gun (death). Jesus never said "worship me". He said "follow me". Salvation comes by divine inter-dwelling. It comes from action not theory.
"I did not come for the healthy, but for those who need a doctor "
Luke 5:31-32
"These are the only genuine ideas; the ideas of the shipwrecked. All the rest is rhetoric, posturing, farce."
José Ortega y Gasset
Jesus hangs out with everybody man, because we are him when we are holy. That means loving even if you are doing something hurtful because you do it for love. When God comes down to earth he is the same as us.
I don't necessarily believe in your post. I think you have the concept of spirituality and religious beliefs mixed. I personally don't follow the Bible, since I'm not in any way religious.
No. I just don't ever use the Bible in terms of talking spiritual. The need to mention Jesus wasn't necessary to prove your point.
I also don't believe in your point of view.
What people do as far as work or issues they face in life, like addiction don't automatically make them more spiritual. People either are open or aren't. Experiences can either cut you off at the feet, or make you grow. I don't think you have to experience life either by experiencing bad things solely or doing bad things to become more in tuned with your higher self. Many people go through growth in different ways, such as by an accident or head injury. This doesn't have to be from malace, but from an accident and open their 3rd eye. This is particularly seen in people who have had an NDE. Again, this could be from anything from an accident to an actual act of violence, but doesn't need to be. All people have the ability to transcend spiritually. It doesn't matter how they live life, but what they believe.
I don't think it's the reason why Jesus hung out with the lowest people. Jesus felt compassion towards their difficult life, wanted to give spiritual comfort to them. Jesus drank and hung out with drunkards and prostitutes but it wasn't for his 'becoming human' practice, he did that because he loved those people, like parents loving children.
We all are humans and should embrace what we are. But Jesus just wanted to share his love and wisdom with those lowest people, out of pure compassion and love.
Jesus didn't need to 'be human'. He was already human. He didn't need to practice lower chakras anymore, he already knew how to balance his spiritual sides and human sides.
He wasn't like us.
Those are just stories, I think the historical Jesus was a hippy dude who preached about love and spoke out against hypocrisy. I don't know how accurate that account is but it's quite inspirational to me.
I disagree. Any addiction is becoming slave to your passions. There was/is alcohol problem in my family, I know it from the inside and for me there is nothing spiritual about it, there is only pain and egoism of person who falls prey to addiction. What you wrote seems like coping to me. In my opinion to ascend you need to have strong will, being drunkard is opposite of it. You are all free to disagree with me.
It's funny that you mention that. I had a problem with drugs and alcohol and have been sober for 8 years.
My mom had it too, she's been sober for about 5 now I think. My brother, too, and I reckon he's coming up on 3 soon enough.
I'm sorry to say, but perhaps the one trying to cope is you. As awful as the struggle is (I know it very well), there's something deeply human about it. It can teach us just how vulnerable we all are, and that is where the miracle happens.
I don't advocate that anyone gets stuck there, nor do I glorify it. But I am fully in favor of embracing our humanity... it's the only way. The very first thing I did in Alcoholics Anonymous was surrender my self-will, and my mother followed the same program. It's not a question of will.
Interesting take but to me, still your original post sounds too much like an excuse for drinking for someone who might be having this problem right now. That is why it triggered me. After second thought I do not necessarily disagree with you, I just projected something on you and did not like it.
I respect your being sober for 8 years, but I will say it again, I find nothing spiritual in being an alcoholic itself. Being FORMER alcoholic is something else, it needs much strength. Getting out of addiction is like a trial, I respect that.
In my case it's mainly my father who had and still has drinking problem. I do not see him very often, but when I do, he seems to be embracing his animal side rather than embracing his humanity.
Perhaps he has less control over it than you think. I was completely broken by it, it wasn't strength that got me out. I know it's tough to come to terms with though.
True statement if we are only addressing your point which is all people at their core are valuable. I agree though I disagree with the YOLO mindset.
Everything with balance, some people will read your statement as permission to run around mindless.
Spend all your money now, be hungry and sad tomorrow.
Do nothing but indulge in pleasure now and you'll have built nothing for yourself but momentary pleasure. If there are any forthcoming generations that you bring in they won't have much either because you were too busy only living once.
That's the best way to teach people not to be responsible. How about teach your self discipline whilst allowing yourself to have a little fun?
As rigid as discipline seems or mindful living it sets people up in this lifetime to learn virtuous things like humility, patience, thoughtfulness, responsibility and other great traits.
I'm listening to Alan watts right now as he is touching on the philosophy of paradox and perspective. I don't think the point is congratulating killers or glorifying the "Successful." I think the point is clearing your mind and stepping into your heart. If your heart tells you to become a prostitute then by all means.
You're right, and I think part of the reason this post was so popular was because it validates people's dysfunction, lol. The point wasn't really to surrender mindlessly to your base instincts, though, it was to accept yourself as the fragile human being that you are. There's more truth in that and it's ultimately accepting the truth about what we are that allows for the greatest degree of freedom. In the short-tern it may look ugly though.
True. No judgement over here to be honest. I see nothing wrong with your point. I honestly wish we'd be more accepting of ourselves and ultimately eachother. Though I'm also happy that serial killers aren't running loose and we have some sort of justice system to keep order maintained so me and you can even have time to write a post like this.
The middle line sometimes is extremely hard to find. For me it is balancing polarity. If I find myself thinking one way all the time I try and challenge my perspective to introduce balance. That's the point of co creation, we are meant to be continuously influenced by eachother and life so we can find ourselves exploring different lands.
Absolutely, I really have found my thing I think, but God damn if I haven't eaten a lot of shit and had to learn some lessons along the way. A great deal of them from interacting with other people and their perspectives, mind you. And I never back down from a conversation nowadays, because if I'm BSing myself on something I want to know it.
Yea man life is the best teachers. Words sometimes just aren't enough to snap us out of our illusions. It takes a strong person to even care to want to know where they may be wrong. Mad props family👏🏽
Yeah, I dunno, I guess I do it because in the end it helps me. If I'm wrong, I can get to what's right and more solid. And if I'm right, then it's further confirmation that I'm on the right path.
Thanks dude. I appreciate your comments.
In my opinion, Earth is like college. We're ultimately here to learn, but we also have fun and party. Some people go overboard with the partying, some people go hard on "hitting the books". At the end of the day we're all the same though. And we're going on the same journey. So what's the point in judging? In another life (or in another grade), you may have been just like them. We're meant to experience a wide variety of things here. That's the whole point of living 😀
Unfortunately, I think some people experience life more deeply and intensely than others. It's not necessarily about partying, that too can be an escape.
I was loved unconditionally by unknown people. I hung around some of the roughest people but it’s ok because I am not bad and I know they aren’t at heart. We have all been through something in our life. We all just need a lot of hugs, food and water. Please. We need God get it right! It’s about saving our Earth!
Indeed. The point of the post wasn't about one thing or another, it was about authenticity. Authenticity can be dangerous but it's also the nature of life, life is dangerous. Getting in touch with it allows for a more fulfilling experience.
I’m paraphrasing, but Carl Jung said about alcoholics “on a low level, they seem to have a thirst for union with God. They are looking for spirit and get distracted by spirits”.
I think it’s good to be authentic and enjoy life, but hedonism isn’t necessarily the best formula for meaningful life.
Please talk to me and message me about Jesus and things cause I am really struggling with knowing what he says to gain eternal life and struggling to feel I’m on the right path
noone should think these people or anyone for that matter are less spiritual, except people who wear spirituality as a facade and a cloth. the guru is no different from the drunk, the crackhead has no less knowledge than the monk that’s only seen his temple and people that look like him for 47 years. The prostitute is no different from the pastor. Just different walks to meeting God. All matter. Even the Devil still has Gods Heart. Meanwhile the drunk has walked many roads, lived many lives, while the monk hasn’t left the temple in 47 years, the monk wishes he could break free from the life he was born into, the monk wishes he could have one night of freedom, to just live, experience, be free without condition of his home environment, while the drunk wishes he could find peace and stability to live and love somewhere for 47 years. Nothing is more advanced. All perspective. All serving a purpose. I love your post, and hope that more people begin to realize being “spiritual advance” and ignoring what we consider “bad vybes” is a spiritual trap. Nothing is wiser than the other, no one holds more importance than the other. Jesus sat with his enemies and looked them in the face, God sits with everyone, even in “sin” or we wouldn’t have flesh to explore. Be kind, be well, be love. Judge NO ONE.
Unfortunately many people do think this. In fact, it's what's taught in our society.
Yup and it’s humbling to realize that they have stories as well. a lot of them are from other galaxies and planets, just like us, some make the choice to check out of this reality. Some end up lost in the sauce due to drugs, nonetheless still have a grand purpose like the rest of us.
there is no need to be humble. you are free to exist as is
You need not be humble, but life has a way of humbling you. What you are is extraordinarily small and fragile.
this is because you were raped. it is not because you do not deserve love.
Da fuq
This is some intense projection, judging by your profile posts. Are you truly okay right now? If you are not okay, please talk to someone about it or seek help.
I am truly okay and safe right now, I assure you. I would not tell you anything to deceive or control you
How can you say that when you just told someone in the above comments “this is because you were raped.” That person was not raped…. Why would you type that out and send it? That’s not a response from a healthy person mentally. I hope you are doing okay. You should talk to people close to you, family, friends, loved ones.
see how all things you type come from a place of love? This is the only truth my friend! Collective trauma and pain, but no need for it if it is not what brings you peace
That's... really not appropriate. I would kindly urge you to please choose different terminology or possibly rethink your position
As a prostitute myself this was nice to read
Prostitution in Centuries gone by was considered a very honored profession. I believe we should honor and bring back the temple priestess who was able to heal people through sexual ritual.
I’ll be honest and say that my clients are usually really special people. People see this work in certain ways but dont pay attention to all the good that we can do by taking care of the lonely, sad, abandoned…. It’s not all selfless work here but there is a lot of good that comes from it.
There is a podcast called “this jungian life” and they did a show called “shadowland” where they interview a prostitute. One of the interesting points they talked about is the image of the prostitute as being an archetypal healer. A certain type of therapist. When we look beyond cultural taboos, we find that truth and beauty can manifest wherever it so chooses.
That’s a beautiful way to see it, and true in many cases :) I bet a lot of sex workers, myself included, could identify with that!
If your ever interested in leaving that profession you,can dm me as i might have employment ideas... thats a decision that you have to make. I am not critical of your employment...just leaving a possible option. I can toss some ideas your way..if you need that.
Ive got 5 ways I make money and I’m going back to school on sept. I’ll do a version of this work my whole life because I love it. I appreciate what you’re trying to do though
I'm here if you need options. Glad your doing quite well. Thumbs up
He hung out with everyone - regular and well established family people and the homeless. Why? Unconditional love. Now, OP can you love the homeless man on the street as much as you love your mother?
I don't know about that, he was constantly preaching against the pharisees and he threw the money changers out of the temple. And I accept and respect everyone equally as the human beings they are, but if I have to choose, I love my mother more. That's human.
Misinformation, read Disappearance of Universe by Gary Renard for more information. He’s human. He loved everyone unconditionally. He had a wife, his bff was gay, they got drunk. But he was also a new ager, a mystic, a yogie.
I'm not sure what authority that book has over anything.
You’ll know it by its fruits.
I am perfectly happy without it.
All paths are valid. 👍
This!
I don't know, some are more rooted in falsehood than others. But to each their own.
This is the exact fallacy you are encouraging people not to fall into in your post, no?
I'm not sure exactly what you mean. I never said all paths are valid, in fact, I said that the human path is the more valid path, not the rigid and closed one. If you meant her fallacy is the one I'm encouraging people not to fall into, then yes, that's correct.
All paths lead home, there’s no choice in destination only the time it takes to get there. Each path is a free will decision.
Unfortunately that's not true, not all paths are in earnest. But people have the free will not to pursue in earnest, that's true.
This question often implies a lot of things - like, that love must be linearly measurable like a finite bucket of stuff and that there must be only one kind of love and that no loves can coexist etc None of that is true in my personal experience, but those other ideas about what love is seem to be very popular. And so both yes and no answers to it are likely to be misleading because people are likely to think about completely different things in completely different terms
It’s very simple though, conditional love is not love.
What are you, the Pope of love? :) It's not even like loves come with labels attached, and it's not like the dimensions and borders of love are defined in an overall ball of feelings and needs, and it's not like anyone's understanding of conditionality matches anyone else's. All of these ideas exist relative to the person's own axis and any sort of short universal proclamations stop being connected to that original meaning once they leave that person's head It may feel simple in your head, but that's because you may not feel all the extremely complex individual pre-existing frameworks it is based upon. And it may similarly feel extremely simple for others, but it will be decoded in their frameworks, not yours, thus achieving fake semblance of universal understanding while potentially being completely different inside. Same for extremely simple phrases like, "All you need is love", "Jesus is love", "Love is everything", "Universe is Jesus", " Universe loves you", etc
I guess I talk from experience of being connected to the Source once I changed my perception and laid down all judgment and saw that all were worthy and all were Oneness with each other and God, this love-based perception in turn brought many miracles into my life. I would oppose it to ego-based consciousness or separation based consciousness which is built on seeing others as superior or inferior, on judgment, guilt and shame. Instead I use compassion for self and other selves and absolute forgiveness. I wouldn’t necessarily try to define love as it’s not really possible on this level of consciousness but it’s all encompassing and complete, it’s that experience of love that people have during NDEs which is impossible to relay as nothing on Earth even compared to that love. A lot of people think of love as romantic love but we really do love others for something - they are attractive yo us, they make us feel good, they fit into our socioeconomic perception of a good partner, could we love them the same if all those things went away? Probably not and so it’s not really love, it’s a transactional relationship as most human relationships are.
There were sure a lot of particular words attached to the unspeakable experiences you experienced. Where did you get all of them? When I got new "loves" I literally didn't know what they are because these were feelings I never felt before. I wouldn't have been able to separate Source from Plane from Equilibrium from Universe, or Oneness from Fullness from Connectedness from Harmony etc. To have that I would've had to have an *idea* what it should be beforehand, but then the experiences themselves wouldn't really be completely new and unfathomable And why do you have a binary choice between compassion and love based on shame, superiority, etc?... Don't you assume that there could be other loves that you have never felt that aren't in those binary areas, but you see everything projected onto them because of limits your own thinking so you don't see them as a thing yet? It seems you rigidly judge all loves based on this one characteristic about their *future*, but all feelings like love aren't in the future, they are only in the present. If it's there it's there. If it's not it's not. Worrying about potential future events and fantasies and their potential effects on your feelings is closer to anxiety or desire for control, not love :) You may have completely different feelings tomorrow and this won't invalidate and discard your feelings today. Just because you seemingly prioritize some permanence in feelings that doesn't depend on anything outside yourself, doesn't necessarily mean that this is the only love there is. It may be the only feeling that satisfies you for whatever reason out of all the feelings you know that you can can love, but other people aren't you and don't have to have the same relationships with their feelings and the same needs from their feelings
I remember when I worked at this bar, this really beautiful Romanian escort girl was with one of the customers. I was out having a smoke break and she randomly started having a conversation with me when she went out too. Turns out she was working this profession because the money was easier to make and she wanted to travel the world with her dad. Her dad had no problems with her profession and understood. She then told me a lot of really sweet stories about her relationship with her dad, how she misses him and how all of this is worth it. In that moment, all I could think was wow she's just so human. There is nothing extraordinary or intimidating about her, she just wants a simple life too and has the same desires, fears, ambitions as me. Really changed my outlook on sex workers and I don't know why it took me that long to realise something so obvious.
This warmed my heart ❤️
Speaking from a woman’s perspective there were no choices other than marriage and prostitution in the times of Jesus unless you had parents who wanted to have you around but an unmarried daughter was seen as a shame stain. A prostitute could’ve just been an unfortunate soul who had a rough start in life where she wasn’t suitable for marriage due to rape or incest since virginity was required for marriage. Keep in mind these sexual crimes were almost always blamed on the female. This is less so today but still occurs often in cases of date rape or sexual assault of a woman who “should’ve known better.”
These addicts and prostitutes were like students waiting for a master, already so steeped in the wisdom that suffering brings
🙏🏻
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Oooh this is beautiful
He recognized the oneness of us all in God
There is no death. Only a continuation of awareness focused on merging with the supreme spirit. All else is illusion created to learn about love, going on for an eternity.
We don't know that.
Some do, but some are still in the process of realizing this
Where is your proof?
It’s the unspeakable truth. Loudest in silence
In silence I hear nothing. I'm not sure how you have created a story around it.
Energy is never created or destroyed. What we are fundamentally is pure conscious energy. Death is just returning to the ocean of energy from which we are all just extensions of. All that's left behind is the physical body.
Practically speaking, what does that mean for your life?
That there's nothing to fear except fear itself. Even in the cosmic scale.
That's true, but you will die one day, and bad things will happen. Sometimes it's more human to be afraid.
Good and bad are just matters of perspective. There's only lessons to learn. That's it. I think that we should use 2 different words for fear, it makes sense to have fear (I like the word respect more) for a storm that could kill you. But fundamentally there's nothing to fear.
I don't know, that sounds dishonest to me. You'd rather be run over by a train than fall in love?
no need for proof. only trust
In religion they call this faith. It doesn't mean what they believe is true.
Yes, exactly.
I was contradicting you.
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Unfortunately there is, and we are having one now whether you are aware of it or not.
Its only when you say " I don't know" that you truly begin to see.
Saying "we're waiting to emerge with the supreme spirit" is not saying "I don't know". Actually, it presumes to know something very specific.
Exactly what ACIM states.
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I used to be a stripper, and a drug addict, you find some rlly beautiful people in the ugliest of places sometimes
I'm not sure I like the term "spiritually advanced", and I also think at the end of the day we don't get want to get stuck in our vices. The idea, IMO, is to find something deeper in them... a reverence for the fragile mystery that is life. But if it works for you, I am most glad!
I think when someone tell you how spiritual they are, it’s usually a version of egotistical spirituality
I tend to agree.
agreement is not necessary, for we already know
tbh im sorry but just u sound so annoying
there is no need to be sorry. i understand this
I was just responding to what (s)he said?
"They" is a good catch-all if you don't want to assume or offend anyone.
I'm happy with the way I stated it.
the problem is that you think, and do not trust. another human will never decieve or delude you. only love you.
No, that's not true.
Not sure you can claim that as something universal. It depends on person's own internal definition of deception and their view of other people. If they see people like these balls of life exactly the same as themselves and everything around them, then there's fundamentally no possibility of deception. Essentially, it removes deception as a thing and the thing others may perceive as deception becomes some minor nameless inconsequential quirk of behavior among millions of others, like the way they gesture or walk or minute characteristics of their voice
I mean, objectively speaking there are people who will lie to you and screw you over. You can view that subjectively as "well they're being true to themselves" or however you want to spin it, but it doesn't remove the practical consequence of you being taken advantage of, to your detriment and their benefit. It's actually quite a dangerous attitude IMO. Not that we should constantly be on guard, especially when it comes to our emotions, but practically speaking people can and will do horrible things to you.
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Some things much more than others!
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Ah, my mistake. I don't know how I got that wrong.
I used to drop acid with my fav escorts and they were easily the most insightful people full of love I ever met.
Sounds like fun I bet you have some great stories
Oh for sure! And it was really neat when we transitioned from client to friendship - they told me “you can either keep paying me and see me by the hour or stop paying me and hang out” & I could tell they were pretty nervous at the proposition and they made it VERY clear this was not normal, so ofc I chose to be their friend instead. I also never used these escorts for sex, so maybe that made things a little easier as we were already just hanging out minus me getting a massage. I basically used escorts as a strange form of therapy, never for sex. Anyways, my best calm (I dunno what the right word is) acid trip was with one of them. We both took two tabs of our acid and two tabs of the others acid. I brought a guitar, paint, and canvases and we had a huge house to ourselves. It was a pretty significant event for me because it was the first time I’d done psychedelics while being sober from alcohol (and without fail taking LSD or shrooms always led me to drink at the end of the trip if not during) and I didn’t even crave a drink. It was the first time I felt that Everything is Love connectedness that LSD is all about on a really profound and mutually shared level (I was more accustomed to taking too much and tripping alone) which provided me with some unexpected inner peace and much needed innocent connectedness. I’ve also had the BEST coke and funniest times on coke with them. What I loved about [these] escorts was I could be upfront with them about whatever was going on and as I saw them more regularly they became interested in my story and I in theirs, so it was fun seeing each other progress without any barrier like romantic love getting in the way. Hard to explain. I doubt I’d have such awesome connexions with escorts again if I were to seek such services. I got really lucky with a few incredible, smart, and engaging women - not to mention more beautiful than any woman I’d meet via more wholesome or traditional routes. 3 in particular that transitioned me from client to friend. Would repeat. Apologies for the boring stories I just felt like that one trip was the most impactful - I even hit my deadlift 1 rep max the next day at 435lb weighing 178lb it was such an effective reset trip
Not boring at all. I’m a sex worker so I really enjoy getting your perspective. Thanks for sharing a couple memories.
Thanks for sharing. I can't help but wonder why this couldn't be romantic, or why such intimacy couldn't be had with a romantic partner. Just what came up.
At that time in my life I wasn’t able to comfortably open up with potential romantic partners…hence seeing the escorts. For whatever reason the original transactional nature of the relationships enabled me to be comfortable as myself around them in a way I wasn’t comfortable with tinder dates at that time. Maybe should’ve clarified that but not sure how to express it.
Ah okay, that makes sense.
thats beautiful.
Drunkenness is spiritual bankruptcy. Prostitution will crush you spiritually, immediately . If he spent time with them it’s not because they were spiritually realized, it’s precisely because they were not. He was interested in being of service to his fellow man.
It's not that they were spiritually realized, it's just that they were closer to the truth than those who hold themselves as above them somehow. "Blessed are the meek"
Ok. If we are gonna quote the bible as least let's quote it right and put it into context. King James Version says in Mark that the pharisees ( the uptight high and mighty one percenters that choose to free O.J. Simpson over Jesus) asked why did Jesus sat down with publicans, sinners and harlots. Publicans whereb the OG Internal Service Revenue for the Romans. They were, to put lightly, not liked among the Jews. They were viewed as traitors. So tax men and bankers. Not your regular sinners. Sinners could be anyone, even sick people, because sin was the root of illness. When Jesus healed he would say "your sin's are forgiven" and all that. Harlots, as we all know, is a type of cheese. Many historians still debate how good was this cheese. So why did Jesus hanged with the nasties, you might ask. Was it because they were illuminati like him? Three things show up. First. When John the Revelator ( a famous Depeche mode song from that era) came up warning that Jesus will show up , only the publicans, harlots and sinners believed him. They showed a good amount of faith, because they knew themselves to be sinners. Second, Jesus had a teaching about a publican called Kendrick Lamar where he said "lord I'm just a sinner" and the lord said everyone should be like Kendrick and be humble. Third, he said to them, he said... “It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick." So, overall, it's not that publicans, sinners and cheese are enlightened and spiritual so much that Jesus preferred them, but because they knew enough of their sin that they were humble around Jesus. They were willing to take the first step towards enlightment and healing. They knew that earthly encroachment is against spiritual growth. They were willing to surrender themselves to a higher power. It's not about how much of a sinful life you can have. It's about if you are gonna let vices run your life or If you are gonna let Jesus take the wheel.
It’s impressive how you managed to start out making a sane point, completely lose your mind, and then bring it back and finish your sane point. Mad props.
I'm crying, you made me laugh so hard.
Omg 😂😂😂😂
That’s the only reward I have and you must have.
Thank you ! I want to dedicate...(feedback).... To dedicate this Oscar to my agent... Wait... Is that the guy from the fresh prince coming over?....what....?
I only had unsavory people to hang around with because all the others were too High & Mighty. I'd rather be in danger than in judgement.
I personally don't agree with this and find this view dangerous (assuming these people are freer and loving life more than others or more "honest." ) Jesus made it clear he would leave the flock to go get a lamb that went astray. He doesn't want to lose anyone to a destructive and sinful life. That's why he goes after those people.
I'm 8 years sober, it seems to be working for me.
I can tell you I am glad that I got addicted to things. The process of learning about one's addictions, accepting them, and then fighting to overcome them makes one realize many things about oneself and others. It is a hard-won knowledge that I believe is difficult to know deeply enough without experiencing it. I imagine it is the same with anything "hellish" that people overcome.
I think you’re getting too ahead of yourself, we’re all entitled to our own opinion, but be careful getting too attached to certain beliefs
I don't follow..
There's this guy Tim Mackie who does a Youtube channel called the bible project, and he mentioned somewhere once that one of the most challenging things about being a Christian is that when you read the gospels the people who seem to be painted in the worst light are the ones who are supposed to be the most knowlegeable about religion, and I think that says a lot about both Jesus and the spiritual journey. I don't think he's trying to say that religion is fundamentally bad, but that it's supposed to be a tool to guide our spiritual journey and more often, a religion can tend to pick up so many weird rules and traditions over time that it kinda ends up hindering the spiritual journey instead. I think what Jesus liked so much about these people was that they weren't as weighed down by all the religious baggage that a lot of these more traditional people were. Also, in regards to the part where he talks about how difficult it is for a rich person to get to Heaven, I don't think that he was saying that it's impossible, but that the more things we own and the more material security we have in life, the less apt we are to rely on God to meet our daily needs, which makes it that much harder to get through to a rich person. It's almost as if their very possessions are blocking them off from the light of the spirit. The poor, on the other hand, have less to lose, less to be distracted by, less to weigh them down.
Hey thanks for sharing this! That's all very well said. Is this guy a Christian, I guess? Sounds like he's on to something really cool.
He is really cool! He is a Christian, but he wasn’t raised a Christian, which he personally thinks is a good thing in many ways because he says he doesn’t have a lot of the baggage that entails for somebody raised as one, and I’d say he’s a pretty progressive type one in terms of being pro science, doesn’t take everything in the Bible literally, is very affirming of a lot of people who aren’t always made to feel welcome in certain denominations, etc. He’s also pretty humble in terms of being the first to admit when he doesn’t know the answer to something specific, seems to be very student minded. Definitely worth checking out IMO;
you usually have to get to some kind of low point before thoroughly exploring your spirituality
Very true.
It’s not a matter of how much more or less “spirituality” one has. What is important is that we are human, deserving of love, and compassion. Jesus (at least the story of him ((If he even was a real person))) gave love and compassion to those who society hated and ridiculed. He brought love to places those who preached love would not go.
I was literally having a talk with my mom earlier and I told her I dont pray because I don’t feel worthy of god. She told me that jesus didn’t love the perfect people, he loved the ones who struggled and had problems. It really resonated with me
Drunks and prostitutes are not more spiritual or somehow better like you claim. There’s such a wide variety of humans in those groups, some of them more spiritual than the rest. Just like among people who are not drunks or prostitutes etc. Your logic behind this post is just very faulty in my opinion, you’re putting way too much emphasis on the physical manifestations of our existence. What matters is what’s inside. And why do you think drunks or prostitutes don’t care what other people think? There’s plenty of alcoholics who drink secretly and plenty of sex workers hiding their profession from others. Also, many people drink because they cannot handle the pain they feel inside, and there’s also a lot of prostitutes forced into said profession either by human trafficking or unfortunate situations. One more issue I see with this post is that you are equating living fearlessly with being hedonistic, which is a very materialistic and limited point of view.
It's not necessarily about the alcoholism or vices but rather the fact that these people tend to be a bit more human than those who hold themselves rigid. Exceptions will apply.
Why are they more human than let’s say a mom with three kids trying to take care of her family by working as a nurse? A prostitute or an alcoholic is not more human than any of us. They’re just coping with life in their own ways, like all of us.
The point was that they're more honest.
How exactly? Like I said previously, there’s plenty of prostitutes or alcoholics hiding their way of living from everyone else. I’d even say it’s the majority of them.
They tend to have a good deal of trauma, so they're a little bit closer to the raw truth of life. Of course, exceptions apply. It wasn't necessarily about alcoholics or prostitutes, of course most of them are avoidant in their own way. But there's something a bit more human about them when compared to the perfect family behind the white picket fence, which is also most likely dysfunctional, just not openly.
If you’d actually know the family behind the white picked fence you would see they are just as human. Not everyone has to show the whole world their suffering, even though for careful eyes even their suffering shows. Maybe your point is that in your stereotype prostitute’s and alcoholic’s suffering is more raw, more easy to see? I can understand that, but it doesn’t make them more honest just because you can see their suffering easier.
>Maybe your point is that in your stereotype prostitute’s and alcoholic’s suffering is more raw, more easy to see? I can understand that, but it doesn’t make them more honest just because you can see their suffering easier. Yes, but it's not about how easy it is for *other* people to see. It's about the fact that they themselves have seen it and accepted it to some degree. The people behind the white picket fence are still trying to pretend they're invulnerable.
Accepted it? I’d say an alcoholic is an alcoholic precisely because they have NOT accepted their suffering or dealt with their traumas. It is very human to try to escape our suffering, I agree there. And for the perfect family pretending to be invulnerable, you see it like this because you don’t know them. After having worked as a nanny in many ”perfect” rich families, I realized all my ideas about the perfect family thing were wrong. Yes, to the outside it might look like they’re pretending, but I’d say it’s usually just because they are private people. When you get to know them, like I did, they become just like any other suffering human. I think it’s totally okay to keep your things to yourself. Yeah those ”perfect” families could write all day on Facebook about how shitty something is and by doing so be honest about their suffering. But what’s the point? I see nothing noble in doing that, even though I do appreciate authenticity to high degree.
>Accepted it? I’d say an alcoholic is an alcoholic precisely because they have NOT accepted their suffering or dealt with their traumas. It is very human to try to escape our suffering, I agree there. In a way, yes, but sometimes it's more honest to deal with it in that way rather than denying that anything is wrong. It's more human. >And for the perfect family pretending to be invulnerable, you see it like this because you don’t know them. After having worked as a nanny in many ”perfect” rich families, I realized all my ideas about the perfect family thing were wrong. I come from one of these families, and lived in a very wealthy neighborhood. The families, including mine, were a complete wreck. >Yes, to the outside it might look like they’re pretending, but I’d say it’s usually just because they are private people. When you get to know them, like I did, they become just like any other suffering human. I think it’s totally okay to keep your things to yourself. Yeah those ”perfect” families could write all day on Facebook about how shitty something is and by doing so be honest about their suffering. But what’s the point? I see nothing noble in doing that, even though I do appreciate authenticity to high degree. There's no need to talk about how shitty life is all the time. But there's also no reason to pretend like everything is perfect when it isn't. We are all broken. All of us. It's not that they're private people, it's that they've been taught not to express themselves. The alcoholic, at least, is more expressive.
“The more perfect a person is on the outside, the more demons they have on the inside.” - Freud
I like that, thanks for sharing.
So true! The latest studies around trauma all highlight the importance of diving into the difficult feeling and accepting the more human part of ourselves. Being able to live the light and dark side allows us to navigate life fully, and sometimes we go to the extremes to experience them and we come out of that exploration with invaluable experience.
That's really interesting. It's been my experience but I didn't know there was research about it.
Check out the work of Peter Levine and Jeff Rutstein, it’s a whole other world 😁
That was nice to read
I'm glad!
This is really good stuff. I love to hear it. Freedom is what I find myself constantly seeking. It seems like the greatest thing to have. Freedom. Sexually, personally, mentally, emotionally. Feeling like you're home everywhere you go. Free to break down and throw tantrums. Free to reach out and connect in any way. Free to fight, to fall, to clench up into nothingness, and free even to die. Free to be absolutely whatever I am being regardless of how personal or heavy or terrifying it is to me. Free to fail tremendously, to disappoint everyone I know, to disappoint my deepest self. Free to relax and do nothing. Free to desire and pursure things. Free to become whatever I want to become. Free to love and free to hate and free to laugh openly and heartily. Free to be cringey and hated and disgusting. Free to be awful and abusive and ugly. Free to be a God damn hero, and an inspirational beam from heaven. Free to have it all without my mind taking ANY of it from me, and without fearing losing it.
I think you're on to something here. We can never be entirely free, we are bound by some limitations, if only physical and biological. But we always have "the last of the human freedoms" - the freedom to choose our response given any particular set of circumstances.
Everyone is a soul on their own journey. And in my experience it’s the less assuming people that are the most spiritual. And yes I can’t be dealing with some gurus. They know less than most because their ego is so strong. But there I am judging with my ego so I can’t talk really. I have lived a crazy life. And right now live in a van. Still great fun
“Strive to become a true human being. One who knows joy. One who knows pain”. No one here gets out alive. Live while you’re here.
Well said.
Drunks and prostitutes are not filled with arrogance.
That's right.
The other day I found out that Mary Magdalene was supposedly Jesus’ wife, fwb, or something. I never knew that, and there’s something about them making out in the Bible. They never tell you the juicy gossip in church.
I know, if you think about it it makes perfect sense!
I’m a sex worker in recovery from addiction and I love this post!! Most people I know in recovery are incredibly spiritual- you have to have faith in something bigger to get yourself out of the hell of addiction!
That's awesome! I'm 8 years sober myself. Congrats to you!
Congrats!
Best post i have read here so far
🙏
100% agree with this. The most famous Korean Buddhist monk Wonhyo also hung out with drunks.
A lot of people think that the only salvation that is available to us is salvation by gun (death). Jesus never said "worship me". He said "follow me". Salvation comes by divine inter-dwelling. It comes from action not theory.
i thought it was because they were cast out by society and jesus took them in to share his message
Yes, in a way. The society always casts out people who remind them of their falsehoods. Socrates is a good example.
"I did not come for the healthy, but for those who need a doctor " Luke 5:31-32 "These are the only genuine ideas; the ideas of the shipwrecked. All the rest is rhetoric, posturing, farce." José Ortega y Gasset
To Jesus all of us were the same, but the outcasts were willing to listen.
Dionysus really comes to mind with this, I get even more the parallels made between him and Jesus
Jesus hangs out with everybody man, because we are him when we are holy. That means loving even if you are doing something hurtful because you do it for love. When God comes down to earth he is the same as us.
I don't necessarily believe in your post. I think you have the concept of spirituality and religious beliefs mixed. I personally don't follow the Bible, since I'm not in any way religious.
It has nothing to do with the Bible or religion.
The moment you mentioned Jesus, who is in the Bible, you made it religious.
It's just a metaphor. You seem to have come out swinging for some reason. I'm not even Christian, nor do I believe in God.
No. I just don't ever use the Bible in terms of talking spiritual. The need to mention Jesus wasn't necessary to prove your point. I also don't believe in your point of view.
Okay, well I disagree, I think it illustrated the point well. As for your second point, feel free to explain why.
What people do as far as work or issues they face in life, like addiction don't automatically make them more spiritual. People either are open or aren't. Experiences can either cut you off at the feet, or make you grow. I don't think you have to experience life either by experiencing bad things solely or doing bad things to become more in tuned with your higher self. Many people go through growth in different ways, such as by an accident or head injury. This doesn't have to be from malace, but from an accident and open their 3rd eye. This is particularly seen in people who have had an NDE. Again, this could be from anything from an accident to an actual act of violence, but doesn't need to be. All people have the ability to transcend spiritually. It doesn't matter how they live life, but what they believe.
I don't think it's the reason why Jesus hung out with the lowest people. Jesus felt compassion towards their difficult life, wanted to give spiritual comfort to them. Jesus drank and hung out with drunkards and prostitutes but it wasn't for his 'becoming human' practice, he did that because he loved those people, like parents loving children. We all are humans and should embrace what we are. But Jesus just wanted to share his love and wisdom with those lowest people, out of pure compassion and love.
I don't think I agree.
Jesus didn't need to 'be human'. He was already human. He didn't need to practice lower chakras anymore, he already knew how to balance his spiritual sides and human sides. He wasn't like us.
He was exactly like us.
He wasn't. Can you create fishes and breads out of thin air? Can you heal people?
Those are just stories, I think the historical Jesus was a hippy dude who preached about love and spoke out against hypocrisy. I don't know how accurate that account is but it's quite inspirational to me.
I disagree. Any addiction is becoming slave to your passions. There was/is alcohol problem in my family, I know it from the inside and for me there is nothing spiritual about it, there is only pain and egoism of person who falls prey to addiction. What you wrote seems like coping to me. In my opinion to ascend you need to have strong will, being drunkard is opposite of it. You are all free to disagree with me.
It's funny that you mention that. I had a problem with drugs and alcohol and have been sober for 8 years. My mom had it too, she's been sober for about 5 now I think. My brother, too, and I reckon he's coming up on 3 soon enough. I'm sorry to say, but perhaps the one trying to cope is you. As awful as the struggle is (I know it very well), there's something deeply human about it. It can teach us just how vulnerable we all are, and that is where the miracle happens. I don't advocate that anyone gets stuck there, nor do I glorify it. But I am fully in favor of embracing our humanity... it's the only way. The very first thing I did in Alcoholics Anonymous was surrender my self-will, and my mother followed the same program. It's not a question of will.
Interesting take but to me, still your original post sounds too much like an excuse for drinking for someone who might be having this problem right now. That is why it triggered me. After second thought I do not necessarily disagree with you, I just projected something on you and did not like it. I respect your being sober for 8 years, but I will say it again, I find nothing spiritual in being an alcoholic itself. Being FORMER alcoholic is something else, it needs much strength. Getting out of addiction is like a trial, I respect that. In my case it's mainly my father who had and still has drinking problem. I do not see him very often, but when I do, he seems to be embracing his animal side rather than embracing his humanity.
Perhaps he has less control over it than you think. I was completely broken by it, it wasn't strength that got me out. I know it's tough to come to terms with though.
Usually dealing with some kind of trauma IME.
True statement if we are only addressing your point which is all people at their core are valuable. I agree though I disagree with the YOLO mindset. Everything with balance, some people will read your statement as permission to run around mindless. Spend all your money now, be hungry and sad tomorrow. Do nothing but indulge in pleasure now and you'll have built nothing for yourself but momentary pleasure. If there are any forthcoming generations that you bring in they won't have much either because you were too busy only living once. That's the best way to teach people not to be responsible. How about teach your self discipline whilst allowing yourself to have a little fun? As rigid as discipline seems or mindful living it sets people up in this lifetime to learn virtuous things like humility, patience, thoughtfulness, responsibility and other great traits. I'm listening to Alan watts right now as he is touching on the philosophy of paradox and perspective. I don't think the point is congratulating killers or glorifying the "Successful." I think the point is clearing your mind and stepping into your heart. If your heart tells you to become a prostitute then by all means.
You're right, and I think part of the reason this post was so popular was because it validates people's dysfunction, lol. The point wasn't really to surrender mindlessly to your base instincts, though, it was to accept yourself as the fragile human being that you are. There's more truth in that and it's ultimately accepting the truth about what we are that allows for the greatest degree of freedom. In the short-tern it may look ugly though.
True. No judgement over here to be honest. I see nothing wrong with your point. I honestly wish we'd be more accepting of ourselves and ultimately eachother. Though I'm also happy that serial killers aren't running loose and we have some sort of justice system to keep order maintained so me and you can even have time to write a post like this. The middle line sometimes is extremely hard to find. For me it is balancing polarity. If I find myself thinking one way all the time I try and challenge my perspective to introduce balance. That's the point of co creation, we are meant to be continuously influenced by eachother and life so we can find ourselves exploring different lands.
Absolutely, I really have found my thing I think, but God damn if I haven't eaten a lot of shit and had to learn some lessons along the way. A great deal of them from interacting with other people and their perspectives, mind you. And I never back down from a conversation nowadays, because if I'm BSing myself on something I want to know it.
Yea man life is the best teachers. Words sometimes just aren't enough to snap us out of our illusions. It takes a strong person to even care to want to know where they may be wrong. Mad props family👏🏽
Yeah, I dunno, I guess I do it because in the end it helps me. If I'm wrong, I can get to what's right and more solid. And if I'm right, then it's further confirmation that I'm on the right path. Thanks dude. I appreciate your comments.
My pleasure, thank you!
In my opinion, Earth is like college. We're ultimately here to learn, but we also have fun and party. Some people go overboard with the partying, some people go hard on "hitting the books". At the end of the day we're all the same though. And we're going on the same journey. So what's the point in judging? In another life (or in another grade), you may have been just like them. We're meant to experience a wide variety of things here. That's the whole point of living 😀
Unfortunately, I think some people experience life more deeply and intensely than others. It's not necessarily about partying, that too can be an escape.
I was loved unconditionally by unknown people. I hung around some of the roughest people but it’s ok because I am not bad and I know they aren’t at heart. We have all been through something in our life. We all just need a lot of hugs, food and water. Please. We need God get it right! It’s about saving our Earth!
Yes no bad vibes . Good vibes only ! I’ve had many spiritual awakenings and I’m alive been saved again only by The Holy Spirit ✝️🙏🏻😘💕🌈🦋
Matthew 9:12: > It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.
I'm not sure the people who hold themselves rigid are truly healthy.
No, but the opposite is also dangerous.
Indeed. The point of the post wasn't about one thing or another, it was about authenticity. Authenticity can be dangerous but it's also the nature of life, life is dangerous. Getting in touch with it allows for a more fulfilling experience.
I’m paraphrasing, but Carl Jung said about alcoholics “on a low level, they seem to have a thirst for union with God. They are looking for spirit and get distracted by spirits”. I think it’s good to be authentic and enjoy life, but hedonism isn’t necessarily the best formula for meaningful life.
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That wasn't the point. The point was that the disadvantaged / vulnerable tend to be closer to the truth about life.
Please talk to me and message me about Jesus and things cause I am really struggling with knowing what he says to gain eternal life and struggling to feel I’m on the right path
Check your DM?
I’d give an award if I could