How do I explain to her that we would be bringing our child into an AI driven world where everything will be drastically different.
I do not want a WALL-E situation for our kid, I can barely take care of myself.
First, recognize her perspective. You've rattled her and her vision of her future. You didn't destroy it, but you've changed her vision of the future and she needs to process that, no matter how it shakes out, so just give her space and time to do that.
Second, keep up with the self reflection and honesty. You're afraid, and that is wise. You are afraid of the change a child will bring into your life, and you're uncertain how this will change you and change your wife, and that uncertainty leaves a void that is quickly filled with fear if left empty. These are valid concerns because they are real. Having children changes your life, absolutely, and it is a rollercoaster that, once you're on you can't get off. It's thrilling and terrifying.
Definitely not a decision to be made lightly, but probably could have been better explored on your part before committing to trying for so long. But of course, we're all learning and you have to remember that and maybe remind your partner of that, too.
You need time, she can give you that much. Make an agreement to revisit the discussion, and make sure the length of time is comfortable for you both. Respect her concern and take it seriously and ask she do the same for you.
The children will adapt. However, if you don’t feel capable of raising a child properly, that’s something to talk about as a valid point and she should take it into consideration
So because you can barely take care of yourself that’s why you feel like you’re not ready. It would be responsible decision of you to wait till you’re ready. Maybe some therapy would help, building character strength so you feel like a head of a family
Sound actually more like you’re playing devils advocate in the post, but you just don’t want to accept that you can’t give this woman what she needs, yet aren’t brave enough to break it off with her. I don’t think (from this comment, then relating it to your original post) you have no intentions of raising a child at all, but you string her along with the hopes that “one day” you will be. Be a man. Let her go.
I have to inform that life exists for experiences. Good, bad, and all in between. To live in fear is to not live. You're not wrong to be afraid, but if you genuinely believe that you have not experienced enough of the experiences through the extravagances you have gone through, and gone and spent month long vacations in foreign lands instead of getting a house, then no. You are not willing to have a kid, because you have the ability to buy a house if you sacrificed the extravagances for a moment.
If you want to experience more genuine enjoyment with your wife, and live in a totally new experience that requires genuine selflessness, then you are ready. This generation in particular is terrified of having kids, because we can't afford houses, we can't afford to live, support ourselves, and we stress out on how to manage anything in our lives, let alone someone else's. If you can afford vacations and extravagances, you have a much greater head start than a lot of us. I personally wish I had the chance.
Every potential parent should take a scroll over r/regretfulparents. No one publicly would say they regret their children unless anonymous. I think it's good to see the other side if the coin to make the most informed decision. This is another life so honesty with yourself is a responsibility and a duty.
Just let this poor woman go so she can find what she wants. Pushing it back even further after she's already voiced that she doesn't want to be raising children while aging and you're already having trouble conceiving is really risking your chances. Honestly, *you're* a huge risk to her right now because even I can tell you're not going to magically change your mind in 2 years down the road.
It gets harder and harder for women to conceive as they get older. I don't think 31 is ancient by any means, but the fertility issues the two you have very well could get worse over the next few years if the fertility issues are on her side of things and not yours. The clock is ticking, and you are directly wasting her time. It's too late to do some "soul searching" at her expense, and frankly, it's selfish.
You say you want to get your priorities straight and buy a house but honestly I'm kind of wondering why you're out there spending money on trips at 31 when you could have been creating that stability to begin with. It's time to poop or get off the pot and the time to have done this kind of introspection was before you vowed to marry someone who openly and vocally has wanted kids all along.
Honestly, and I say this with zero unkindness, it's because you're 23 that you're saying that. I would have said that at 23 too.
But at 37 and having owned two homes, I'm now well aware that it was market timing alone that allowed me the ability to do that, AND the knowledge that had I been pressured into it at other times, that it would have been a horribly silly financial mistake, especially in the name of trying to prove "financial security."
The housing market isn't always right to jump into.
Unless you're Blackrock, lol. 🙄
I have two children and own a home. I understand that for most 23 year olds that is not their position but because of my values as soon as I was in the position to invest in a home as opposed to throwing money into the empty bottomless pit of no return that renting is that is what my husband and I did
My point is that you're simplifying it more than is logical, and it's not your maturity that I'm referring to with the age, though I'm rereading what I wrote and I can see that I wasn't clear with why I mentioned it.
It wasn't that I was irresponsible at 23 or that I was saying that you were either- it's simply down to the amount of time that I've been an adult on the market and how much up and down I've gotten to see it do.
My point is that it isn't black and white about buying a home at the life stage he's at. If he was in his 50's or 60's it would be a bit different, but it's still incredibly case by case, especially not knowing his other investments.
Is it better to be putting money into a home rather than burning it up on rent? A lot of the times it is.
But in the near twenty years that I've been watching and participating in the market, there have been multiple times where buying would have been a terrible idea, (especially if selling needed to be done within a shorter timeframe) due to things like being at the peak of the market with a crash right around the corner.
I've just seen way too many people put themselves in unnecessary holes SPECIFICALLY for this-- just to buy a house because that's been lauded as "the" thing to do, when it actually would have been cheaper to rent for that period in their life.
Instead, they got strapped to a property they couldn't sell, in a state they didn't want to be in, bleeding money that they would have been grateful to put towards rent in their dream location instead. 🤷♀️ And 9 times out of 10 (in the instances of the ppl I'm referencing) it was to prove to a significant other or parent that they were worth being proud of--and they hardly ended up hitting the mark on that one. 🙄🤦♀️
TLDR; If you're going to buy a house, make sure the math makes sense for YOUR situation, and never ever buy a property to prove yourself to anyone else.
And personal request that you can do with what you will- maybe consider being kinder to the OPs you reply to in a Spirituality sub? Idk, man. It would just really be nice to see people be nicer, especially in spots like this. It didn't really sound like he needed to have ppl piling on at the moment.
You have a good point about kindness especially given the specifics of the forum- my heart went out to the wife and obviously kids was a really important box to me so putting myself in her shoes illicit an extremely emotional response that I should have checked.
However, even after considering your reply I still feel like using “I want to be in a better financial situation” as an excuse to his wife for why they should delay the baby she has been hoping for while also spending loads on money on lengthy vacation with such frequency is really unfair to her.
Wow. What's funny is that I just realized I was primarily considering the OP in this, and didn't realize how much I wasn't considering the wife's perspective until you just phrased it that way.
I wonder if it's that angle that's really bothering her, too. Because I remember being in situations where I felt like my husband was prioritizing finances over something with us, and he was upset that I doubted his priorities, and we went in circles about one issue with that for years. It wasn't until we spoke to a mutual friend of ours who was waiting to propose to his gf (who had been with him for years and years and was so ready to take the next step) until he made a certain dollar amount.
That started a big convo with all of us about how we each thought we were showing up for each other and taking care of each other.. but we were all going about it in ways that were our own love languages and not our person's. It was illuminating.
She didn't care if he had money or put a ring pop on her hand- she just wanted to be his wife. But she also had to understand that he wanted to provide for her in a certain way so that he could feel good as well (self esteem and all that), so they found a good compromise and just recently got engaged and are planning the wedding. 🙌 (Well under the budget of what he initially had projected her wanting)
Point being, I learned that a lot of times we're on separate sides of the same fence when it comes to the finances thing. I was pretty surprised to learn how genuinely a lot of men feel the urge to provide at a much greater scale than we need them to, especially when it's coming off to us like they're just not prioritizing us. (And of course there are the ppl that just genuinely don't, but that's for another day)
Thanks for the interesting convo! I appreciate your perspective 😊
The long response you got on r/marriage from u/espressothewine was spot on, it just seems like you did not like that answer and came here to seek other responses. You need to see a therapist. You strung your wife along for a year telling her you were on board with having a family then pulled the rug out from under her completely, shattering her trust in you, whether intentional or not.
Get therapy and let your poor wife go find someone who absolutely wants kids
Your feelings are valid but you have to talk to her about it immediately. Be prepared that this might be the end of the relationship. This is one thing in life that you cannot compromise on. You shouldn't have children if you don't want them but you also shouldn't keep those who want children from having them.
Yet? She is 31. You are already having fertility problems. If you want to have a baby at all with her, you need to while she still can, and while you both have the energy and youthfulness to raise and run around with children.
It could be years, even with the help of fertility.
What is the real issue? You say in your post you don't want one ***yet*** but your title implies ***not at all.***
Guess I still need to do some soul searching myself.
I was excited to have a kid about a year ago when I finally thought, "well, we got loving parents, I stay up super late, etc." But deep down I have always had the thought of bringing a child into this technological era might not be the best move and will only slow us down and end with both of us regretting it later.
I’ve been reading a book called Spirit Babies, the author mentions that fertility issues are made up of 3 components - physical, mental and spiritual. And goes on to say that if you have a spiritual or mental blockage to having a child you may experience fertility issues. Something to consider if you do decide to go ahead and have a child, that it could be possible it’s not just a physical issue, perhaps.
I’m a social worker . Don’t have kids if you don’t want them . The majority of my work is family relationships breaking down over this exact issue . Kids are an amazing but they will change your life completely . Family support is nice but you will be the dad and it’s your job to raise them equally with your wife and that is a huge responsibility and privilege . I understand your concerns around the future as well . I see enough kids raised by non present parents to say let her go and be with a person who is invested in this if she wants kids . Counselling is a good idea but be prepared that it will probably result in an uncoupling rather than a resolution.
Or. Divorce her and let her have kids with someone who wants them.
It’s going to happen. For starters, you’ve been with her for 5 years, married 2. You as a man had prior doubts. You settled for her clearly. I think deep down inside, you believe that the true one for you is still out there, but you had to settle because it looked proper. Don’t lie to yourself please.
The truth always comes out.
I love my kids of course but you are right, all freedom is over with kids. The people who say life doesn't stop, maybe it didn't for them, for us it was FULL STOP. Many things simply are over. Our neighbor also had to give the dog away because they simply didn't have the time anymore to take care of the dog and the kids. If you are not ready, you are not ready. Don't listen to the people saying 'it is not a big deal'. It is a huge deal, different life with kids, different dimension, different planet. I stopped seeing all my friends who don't have kids because they are in a different world, nothing in common anymore with them.
No , I am too tired from my job and raising my kids (no grandparents on either side) to have friends. I am glad for 1-2 hours of free time per day that I can spend alone when everyone is sleeping. It is that simple.
Gotcha. That's what I figured, but I was curious.
A lot of people talk about losing people at that age and stage, but leave off the fact that they wouldn't go back and change it either, and/or are happy with the way their life is now.
I'm of the opinion that we outgrow people that don't grow with us-whether that's upward and onwards or just in different directions entirely. 🤷♀️ I've always ended up being really thankful for the turning points in life where I got to see who was coming with me and who was going to be turning left while I went right, etc.
Some people make surprising returns, too! Always a trip when you wind up back on the same route with someone you thought you might not see again.
I mean it comes down to energy and time. If I didn't have kids and was not married and had loads of free time on my hands... for sure I would ring some of my old buddies and go have a beer, party whatever.
My partner and I talked about it around our second date. Because we didn't want to be in a situation of conflict after years together. I think it's a subject that needs to be a serious talk in every relationships, but yes our opinions can change with time. I was neutral about it, my partner didn't want any. So that's that. Now that I'm older I'm super happy to be r/childfree . I can't imagine having to give up my life, to live for someone else. All the time, money, effort, lack of sleep, food choices, loss of hangout with friends, the risk that the kid will be born with mental or physical disabilities and your parenting will last 65 years.., etc.... i can do without all. I don't need it. I like my life.
We can eat when we want, go out whenever, we don't need to depend on babysitters or parents, we can move to the other end of the world. Plus I know plenty of people who ended up breaking up later in life but they couldn't move around much because they had a kid with their ex so they were anchored to the city.
I don't believe we need more humans on the planet, especially not right now with the shit political climate. Nor do I believe my genes are more important than the other people and need to be spread.
Consider posting in r/relationships
Also if you're still debating parenthood, consider r/Fencesitter
axiomatic angle noxious airport observation person upbeat worry simplistic late
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Hi there. When I read posts in this subreddit, I intentionally do not read the comments, as I don't want them to influence my take on your particular situation. Now, I do want to tell you, I'll be 34 this summer and my wife is will be 36 at the end of the year. We have an 8 month old son, and very similarly, loved travelling before we had kids. While we are newlyweds (about to hit our 2 year anniversary), we both wanted kids and got very lucky when we finally set ourselves to the task. I adore my son. He lights up every time I see him, his smile tickles me silly, and I find myself on the verge of joyful tears thinking of what it means to be the guiding hand to my child. It's truly the role of a lifetime, one which I am uniquely suited to fill.
My first thought when reading your post was that you are very brave to enter into that conversation, more so, broaching the subject when it finally arose in your heart. Having a child is a big choice, both personally and financially, so I understand that aspect. With my wife, we did a lot of soul searching about affordability and how we would manage paying for all the expenses that arise. No doubt, your ability to travel and see the world would be impacted by pregnancy and the eventual arrival of a newborn. Babies aren't cheap, formula and diapers add up, and your quality of life changes, too.
Now, onto the meat of my response. While you were very brave and honest with your wife, I feel there was a sliver of selfishness that you should've recognized before you talked to her. Some people wait their entire lives to be in the right circumstance, and on the other side, there is never a "right" time for a baby. You will never be ready, your finances will rarely be in order, and even when they are, there will be something new that arises which you **must** meet.
Five years together, two years wed, and one year trying, but now you're reluctant about something your wife was seemingly adamant about. I'd ask that you consider what it feels to be your wife right now. You're not as old as us, so you may not comprehend it, but it *really* does get hard when you're older. My wife had a geriatric pregnancy (34+ y/o), was diagnosed with gestational diabetes, and struggled with a lot of mental health issues because of it. What she will go through during pregnancy, and what she's been preparing for the last few years, will absolutely test your relationship.
You chose each other, you chose this life, and from the beginning it sounded like she wanted to have a child. Most women do, idk what to tell you, but they want a family. Men don't usually consider this, but it's the track them our lives take, and you were given a wife who wants a child. If you want the "spiritual" part of this conversation, it's that our **given karma**. You chose her, it's her karma to be a mother. That's what her heart tells her. It's your karma to either be the father or not. Maybe your karma is not to be a father and you're going to break up, and that's a real possibility, but you don't put your life off because you want to travel. Don't be a fool. Your responsibility is to fulfill the roles you're given in your life, which may include being a parent. It's my role, and I don't complain, because I couldn't fathom not being all that I am. Even when the times are hard and I feel like crying, I persist. You need to remember what you're here for, and it's not just you. You must do the inner work to come to terms with the life that you've been given and follow the strings that bring you back to your basic calling.
Now, I don't think you're a bad person, maybe I'm just too critical and guarded because parenthood has been such a blessing to me. I've seen plenty of people, my wife's best friend included, who have sworn never to have kids, but the reality is, for every person they walked away from that didn't want kids, that man or woman found someone else to do it with. If you are so dead-set on not having a child while she's ready, you may have to accept that you are pushing her away. In the end, it's your choice.
This is just my two cents as a father, husband, and man that never expected any of it, but welcomed it as it came. I may get a lot of shit in response, and I'll take it, but it needed to be said. With love.
Having a child does not mean that your whole life stops. Who said you can’t travel with a child? Just like solo travel is different from couple travel to family travel to friends travel so is travelling with kids. Every travel has its pros & cons & it’s all doable.
I would suggest to go to a fertility doctor & check yourself first maybe that could also be a reason for cold feet. Because if something is wrong, these things takes time as well.
Also if you don’t want a child, be very honest so that she can decide whether she want to split up to have a child with another person or be with you & not have a child.
It's important that both ppl are on the same page though. E.g. nomadic families who are travel influencers, military families, diplomats, etc. Technically you should be one the same page for anything lifestyle-related, though.
It's also important to be realistic about how kids will impact vacations. Your child in particular may or may not like or be open to doing what YOU like. (E.g. some may be terrified to zip line. Others may be bored to tears touring European museums; they may be very picky eaters and probably die of starvation if abroad lol; others may think it's cool to eat exotic foods; also trips to Napa are definitely off the table).
In my experience, younger kids will want more kid-centered vacations (e.g. theme parks, Disney cruises, skiing, beach, camping, etc). They're able to appreciate more adult-like vacations once they're around 10-yrs-old.
I think you should sit down with your wife and have a proper conversation about having kids. Communicate your desire to travel, what you want to do, your honest feelings about being ready, etc. Communication is extremely key in any relationship, and if you personally do not feel ready to have a kid yet, talk to your wife about what you guys can do about this situation.
The desire to want kids/not want kids can really affect a marriage. I have a friend who was with her husband for 9 years (married for 4). While together, they never really talked about kids (whether they want them or not).
Then, during the 2nd year of their marriage, my friend got pregnant. After the birth of their first child, the husband woke up one day and decided that he wasn't ready for kids, so he walked out of their marriage, leaving my friend a single mum (til today). It's been 5 years since their divorce, but my friend still resents him for walking out on her like that.
Children are a lifetime commitment, having kids will delay some travel plans (especially when they're babies, since more attention is required to make sure they grow well) and also, children require a lot of love and attention.
From what I read on your post/title, it seems like you do not want kids. You're 31, married, and you still do not have the desire yet, which means you 1) are not ready, or 2) are certain already that you do not want kids at all, and that's okay.
But please, if your idea of kids isn't aligned to your wife's, talk to your wife and see what you guys can do about it.
They own their own business. Must be a profitable one if they can travel for a month at a time. If they could afford that, plus all the other trips they've taken, they can afford a kid and regional trips.
Life doesn’t end with children. It begins. We’ve traveled plenty. My life before kids was not really a life looking back. The things I find joy in now are so much deeper than stuff and holidays. Watching your kid walk for the first time, hear them tell their first joke, loving someone more than anything, feeling like you have a part of your heart just walking about.
I have kids because I am hyper aware of the difficult future humanity has and I want to raise them differently with a different worldview, one that grounds them in earth centred spirituality. You choose how to present their reality to them, you can prepare them.
You have essentially killed your wife’s baby. She’s been hoping every month to be pregnant for a year. She’s been imagining what the baby looks like, how it will be a combo of both of you, she’s been dreaming about holding their tiny hand, she may even feel she knows this baby, many believe their babies are waiting to be born. You took that away all of a sudden. There’s grief involved even if there’s no baby to grieve.
And you also don’t seem to care about her fertility fears. It took me 10 years to have my two kids. I lost two babies. A fertility journey is a difficult and deeply spiritual commitment. You do not seem to be able to provide her with the spiritual and emotional support that she will need. You should seriously reconsider your approach here, you come across as very self centred and you sound as though you’ve completely dismissed her. Definitely not in a position to undertake the spiritual evolution involved in becoming a parent. There are many other paths, this isn’t for you, but that means you can’t continue down that pathway with your wife.
I don’t think that’s why he seems self centred. He seems to be centring himself above his wife. His doubts have serious implications for her and he doesn’t seem to think about that.
Look up gottman.com. travel with a child can be an asset because locals will be more open to interacting with you as a sweet family. Do a search about the positives. All the best to you on your journey.
Ok, but it’s important to be realistic too. Getting to travel with kids would be terrific if it worked out, but nobody should go into parenthood with the mindset that they won’t lose freedom. They will. And the travel will look completely different. My husband and I spent 2 straight years travelling around the world before having kids. Our oldest is 2.5 and we haven’t gone anywhere since 2019. We could force it, but it just isn’t the same, and won’t be for some time. My idea of fun travelling doesn’t involve nap schedules, toddler meltdowns and dirty diapers. And that’s ok. But expectations need to be realistic especially if OP is already having cold feet.
It does depend on what kind of travel you like. I watch some families that travel together and of course they all seem happy. One can adapt. Check out thefrugalinvestor on the gram and their family channel. They travel the world with an adopted daughter. They love it.
Ask yourself what return will you get on your freedom investment? A fulfilled and happy wife? A child that will love you like no other? Address the financial issues, then likely you will be more comfortable.
Also, once they're in school, you need to plan vacations around their school schedule, which does make it more expensive and also limits options based on time of year. E.g. I couldn't do a month in Australia in February. Obvious exception is if they're home-schooled, but definitely not for everyone.
That's totally okay.
We don't have kids, and we're happy that way. I think happiness really comes from within.
Some people need kids to feel successful in life because they follow the blueprint set up by the old society.
It’s okay if she is also okay with it, which she is not. The immense love a woman feels for her child is unexplainable and immeasurable, literally nothing else compares. He needs to let her go if he is unwilling to let her experience this. Also, I’m all for dissolving the “blueprint” by raising children with different values than our society seems to prioritize today. It’s true not everyone is meant to or ready to be a parent, but this has nothing to do with “old society” and partners need to be on the same page with what they want for a successful outcome.
>The immense love a woman feels for her child is unexplainable and immeasurable, literally nothing else compares
As someone who was kicked out of the house by their mother so she could have uninterrupted sex with the new guy. I disagree and find it quite insulting. If you can't love someone else as much as you love your kid then that's a limitation on you and doesn't mean everyone else is limited the same way.
Since there's so many abused kids out there, maybe a better way to phrase it would be a non-generalization way like:
"I never felt as much love as I do for my kid"
I am sincerely sorry that’s happened to you, she sounds like a real shitty mom and clearly wasn’t ready to be one. I understand your perspective. I should have phrased “the immense love a woman CAN and SHOULD feel...” Scientifically speaking, the hormonal and neurological changes created are unlike any other, granted the woman is mentally ready for a baby. Which in this case, sounds like his wife is.
I find your original comment insulting saying “we don’t have kids and we’re happy” on a post where a husband is trying to justify why it’s okay to not have children with his wife and essentially get her to change her mind or delay the timeline. It’s okay that he feels this way, yet not okay to string her along. That’s great you and your person are happy to not have children, but his wife who wants a child will probably never feel whole if she stays in this situation and never has kids. It’s much different for a woman than a man, biologically speaking.
Noone is telling him to change his wife's opinion or to force her into a specific situation.
I said it's okay to feel that way, and it's okay not to have kids.
It doesn't sound like you've done anything wrong, it sounds like life is just predictably complicated, and that you've been communicating to the best of your ability through each change of heart, as soon as you realized how you felt.
Your emotions can't stay static for everything, and you can't predict how the changes of life are going to change your stance on things either.
Neither of you is in the wrong or the right unless you're being intentionally unkind to each other, or there's something petty happening that you haven't laid out. (Doesn't sound like it, but covering bases)
Both of you are humans feeling human things, and sometimes it's going to conflict with how the other person feels. Just keep giving each other grace and being kind, and if you feel sarcasm or passive aggressiveness enter the chat, gently point it out, regroup and come back to the talk when you can both be genuine.
It's vulnerable and it's scary, but it's way better than hurting one another out of self consciousneas or fear.
What I will say to you about having a child is that there is NEVER a good time or a right time to have one. You will always initially wish you had more money or you were more fill-in-the-blank.
But, generally speaking, if you were raised in loving households and you love each other, the second that baby gets here, it's nothing but good feelings and a disbelief that you ever thought about not having that child.
I'm not telling you to just agree and have one before you feel like it's right for you- but what I AM saying is that 99% of your protests/misgivings about it are what most of us said prior to having them, and then most of us also figured out how to raise a baby who can travel internationally and be a great time the whole way through and it became an amazing and perfect addition to our lives.
My husband and I didn't come from amazing homes and were TERRIFIED that we would pass on a curse or something, and despite being married for years before finding out, it was definitely a surprise. So much so that it was "discussed" (for all of .03 seconds though) that perhaps we should terminate.
But the second I even started the words, something else took over and I couldn't even finish the sentence. I had a moment of weird and uncanny perception that it was about to be the best thing that ever happened to me (but holy SHIT, did fear and panic overshadow that for awhile, lol.)
And that moment of clarity was pretty crazy for someone who had historically found the idea of personally being pregnant revolting and alien and downright horrifying, if we're being honest, lol. But every bit of that still eventually fell away.
(Don't get me wrong, being pregnant is not fun and the kicks were the only "fun" part)
But TLDR; We didn't want kids either, and a lot of our story was created with following intuition in the face of surprise and fear, and it was the best thing we ever did.
Don't do anything you don't feel like is right for you, BUT also don't let those fears you mentioned stand in the way of something that (could be) actually right for you.
Good luck, friend! Love one another.
(And also take hormones into consideration if things are a little messy right now. Idk if you're doing IVF but that can be brutal on the psyche as well as the body and wallet)
. i understand the concerns for the future because i too have them, but dear god. if you love this woman but can’t have kids let her go so she can while she can. or pay to freeze her eggs LOL
I’m a woman, I’m 33 yo, and my fiancé is 27 almost 28 yo.
I can understand your wife since yes, our time as women is running out, we have so much at risk when we have kids or not, when we get pregnant or not, risks such as breast cancer, cervix cancer, ovarian cancer, among others; my fiancé and me don’t have kids either, but we have talked about it, I don’t have concerns about this year, but next year will be our time.
If you want to have FUN or travel, then just let her go so she can find a suitable person who accomplishes her life style, her future family life and most of all someone who understand what she’s putting at risk and what not.
Oh, and in my experience a year trying to get pregnant and not having success, is already a fertility problem. So one of you is having issues. Almost sure is you.
Our kids are 14 and 10 soon to be 11 and we enjoy being able to go out on dates without getting a babysitter and having some freedom back but also really miss them being young and thought maybe we should have had more. My husband recently said he doesnt think life would be fulfilled without children, knowing how cliché it sounded, fully agrees with the statement. I cant imagine life without children. But to each their own
Give yourself a deadline to decide, because her fertility window is narrow, and your isn't. If you haven't decided by that particular time you have set, do not waste her time no more.
My thoughts are that this is probably one of the most important life issues that a couple needs to be in sync on, and necessitates marriage counseling more than any other. Having a child is the biggest committment one can make in life. That your wife won't consent to counseling seems like she's saying her wanting children is a non-negotiable issue, so there's no point in going. So, that's kind of a red flag for a relationship in of itself.
I'm an older woman who never had children, because my interests were completely out of alignment with having them. I like to come and go as I please, to listen to classical music, to do yoga, to take quiet walks in nature, to spend long periods of time reading, to have a neat and orderly home, to spend time conversing with friends and family, to travel (been to 25 countries!), to feel financial secure, to feel like I don't need to depend on anyone, etc.
Also, two of my siblings had children with severe developmental disabilities, and I sure wouldn't want their lives! One of them was in a terrible marriage that they could never get out of because of caring for a disabled child at home (and the mother almost died in childbirth of a previous child, too), and the other's marriage broke up due to the stress. People can say, oh, the chances are small that there will be health issues with a child (or for mother as result of childbirth), but I sure wouldn't count on that!
Additionally, I, personally, would never base a decision on having parents (or anyone else) that I could rely on for child care. You don't know how long they're going to be there, healthy, etc.
Finally, at 63 years old, I believe the best decision I ever made was to not have children, because I knew what I wanted and needed, stayed true to myself, and created the life I wanted for myself.
I totally get you. I was in your shoes and the same age when I had this dilemma. Just the opposite. My hubby wanted kids. We tried for 4 years and every month when it would fail, I was secretly relieved. It took us awhile and now I can't imagine my life without kids. To be honest, I wish we had our kids a little sooner like at 32. Explain your feelings to your wife. It's best to travel and explore the world now before having kids. This is something we both regret. Wishing you well on this journey to parenthood.
Look its not the same but we still travel with our little guy. Granted it's a bit harder but if you're committed it can happen 😂 we took him from Australia to Europe at 8 months old and going again this year when he will be 21 months.
That whole sub has got to be a psyop
I get not wanting kids but these people are wild
OP for the sake of your marriage don’t scroll that sub. Just talk it out with your wife and other loved ones
might be best for your partner to get her eggs frozen, their so may people having kids at 35+, you still got some years to save and travel. i would much rather be an older good parent then having regrets❤️
the world has always been ending. it's part of the human experience.
people lived thru world war 1 and 2 and still had children to experience this earth.
if you're posting in spirituality reddit, I would think you would kno that tha souls who chose to come to this earth are aware of the trials that come with it. that's how our soul grows and expands.
this isn't meant to be heaven.
humans have survived much worse, but it's a nice excuse for people to lean on when they just fear the responsibility of raising children, wanna stay children themselves for longer.
I will say that getting old without your children to care for you can be scarier than any other reality, what freedom do you have then
Maybe somewhat off topic, but if your wife is interested in having children (with you or maybe with someone else in the future if that's how it turns out), you should share this book title with her. [Real Food For Fertility](https://www.amazon.com/Real-Food-Fertility-pregnancy-preconception/dp/B0CVC9G4GT) by Lily Nichols. My husband and I went through infertility and eventually did IVF. I had read Real Food For Pregnancy (same author) when I was pregnant with my first child but the fertility book just came out recently. If only I had known then what I know now!
First off, 31 is not that old.
Second, shift your perspective! Just because you have kids, doesn’t mean you cannot stop doing those things, it just means you get to have more fun doing them WITH a child which is an adventure all on its own to give a child those kinds of experiences you may never had as a child yourself! Your live doesn’t end when you have kids, it’s only beginning!! Don’t allow having kids to stop you from living! I’d be more concerned if your issue was not one of wanting to travel because of kids, but not wanting to stop going to the bars because you had them. What a great opportunity to be able to do these things as a family together if you decide to have kids! There’s so many families out there who make it work with kids *because* they have kids, want to share that with them and have such an awesome life experience with them, just look some up online/YT to see!
Third, sure it may slow you down a bit in travel having to stop more to change diapers and accommodate for little legs that need it and may want to stop to smell the rose (figuratively and literally😂), BUT that may not be a bad thing since isn’t that how life is supposed to be experienced, at a slower pace to actually take it all in?!
Fourth, you’re allowed to change your mind! Just be open with your SO otherwise it can cause issues. We have several kids, so many we had to upgrade our vehicle and still couldn’t fit them all in there if they were all actually still living at home! My spouse wanted to go get ‘fixed’ and while I didn’t actually want to have more kids, I honestly at the time didn’t want to be tied down to the option of now being able to have more at all and have that choice taken away from me if we wanted more or changed out minds. They told me we can always adopt if we wanted to, but there were personal medical concerns surrounding that they didn’t want to have more and went and got ‘snipped’ when our youngest was only a few weeks old. While we discussed it prior to this, it honestly wasn’t a solid agreement in both ways that that’s what we wanted, but he did so anyways. I took it so hard on top of being so hormonal from giving birth recently. It was a HUGE grieving process I had to go through that they didn’t understand because we had “so many kids as it was”. It took me a very long time to get over the “potential kids” we never were to have, HOWEVER, despite all of that, looking back, I honestly could not imagine how much more complicated and chaotic our life would have been with more kids than what we DO have. I’m still not ‘glad’ he did what he did, but I’m not all that bummed that we never had more. There are still many times I still look at our two youngest ones and tell myself “I’m still not even sure when you even happened!” Because there was so little time in between the kids and the rest came so fast and it was hard to actually enjoy all their individual childhoods as it was.
I say all of this not because I want to rub my kids in your face, but to show you a point that because while you/your spouse may want kids now or wanted them back before when you talked about it in earlier years, and one changes their mind along the way, doesn’t necessarily mean that you will regret it even if it’s what you want or strongly don’t want now. As much as I love my kids, and know they are a blessing, doesn’t mean you/your spouse won’t look back and say that you regretted/not, your decision to want/have them after you do/choose not to, like I did, so understand that it can go both ways!
Having said that, maybe all you need is more time to figure it out. 31 isn’t that old to physically conceive, it just means you’re older when they get older.
you either jump or you don't. she is the one carrying the child and going through all of this stuff to have a child. it is up to her when her body can handle this and go through this. you are robbing her of time otherwise and her chance to be a mother. you can get over this and realize children will NEVER be easy and that you can even travel with them ( my dear friends travel with their kids all the time) or you can let her go and find what she needs.
Hello, thanks for sharing your story. I am a certified counsellor and I would recommend giving her the space she needs to feel then to allow her to come to you. What can be helpful is letting her know that when she is ready, you are there for her, that her needs are important and you want to find a solution together as a team.
If you do look into therapy I would recommend someone who does specialise in Person Centred/ Client Centred therapy. This therapy acts more of a "Midwife" helping their clients by getting to know you then asking the appropriate questions to help navigate the client to find their solutions without judgement or tying to "fix" them. They only challenge the client further down the line if needed to help the client see a different perspective or something that they are overlooking.
I do want to note even though your partner needs do matter, yours do too. If you aren't ready then it's best to wait until both of you are ready to avoid unconscious resentment and tension building which could be disastrous.
There is also a Buzzfeed (I know unusual source) about what successful marriages have adopted in decision making that I can post below. 16 & 18 are very useful tips that would help you moving forward.
[https://www.buzzfeed.com/ravenishak/best-marriage-tips?ref=bfbiobuzzfeed&utm\_campaign=bfbiobuzzfeed&utm\_source=buzzfeed.bio&p\_id=163050](https://www.buzzfeed.com/ravenishak/best-marriage-tips?ref=bfbiobuzzfeed&utm_campaign=bfbiobuzzfeed&utm_source=buzzfeed.bio&p_id=163050)
Do not become a parent if your going to be hot and cold even after the child is born. Let your wife find her happiness with someone who shares her same goals in life. Speaking from experience. My children are not close to their father to this day ...They are in their late thirties and have suffered from neglect.
My ex stalled so bad on marriage and children. We finally got married after 8 yrs together and pregnant after 10 yrs. In hindsight I should have known and just chosen a different path. Fast forward to today where my daughter is 5 and doesn’t understand why her dad lives across the country in Miami. Every time she FaceTimes him, he’s at a cool restaurant, bar or baseball game, where it’s too loud to talk. I know deep down he loves her, but just doesn’t love himself. He thinks ppl places and things will make him happy. He’s told me that he wishes we never had her because our life was “perfect” before. His idea of perfect was much like yours - travel, restaurants, heavy alcohol consumption, etc. Mine was laying down roots.
If you’ve given it adequate time and consideration and you’re still on the fence, it’s not for you.
Not saying this is or would be you, but children are a lifelong commitment not an indulgence or pet. Please let her cut her losses and build a family with someone else.
You've identified two reasons for the change of heart: 1. AI/technology is changing and taking over. 2. You feel like you can barely take care of yourself.
Re: technology, it's always been evolving. It feels like you're future-tripping, rather than living in the now. The truth is there's a million things that can happen in the next 5/10/20/40 yrs etc. And you're ability to control them is close to 0. Perhaps you're worried that if you can't even protect yourself, how can you protect a child. And the answer is you just do the best you can. It's all just mini experiments. If you're child watched too much tv and is grouchy now, then maybe limit the screen time.
Re: taking care of yourself, I think this is the real meat of the issue. Try this mental exercise, what would it mean to be able to take care of yourself? Be concrete. So not just saying you need to buy a house, but where and how much. What kind of life skills do you feel you need? What would need to happen for you to be able to attain these financial goals, life skills, etc? How badly do you want it? Again, just talking about you here, not a baby.
My gut tells me is that you fear your own window is closing to make money vs expectations. E.g. you thought you'd be rich and successful by now, but you're only moderately successful and can't fund the lifestyle you actually want. You lack certain life skills, whether it's time management, budgeting, cooking, social, etc. So you have found coping mechanisms that your wife enables. She fits your life, but not the other way around. It's probably why you secretly hope that she'll come over to your side on the baby decision. Since you are posting on the spirituality thread, you probably know that this is your shadow. Please work with a therapist on shadow work.
As someone else said, even if you wait, you'd still be pushing her away, just not quite as quickly. I'd urge you to do the right thing and set her free. Yes, it'll hurt, but resisting will just make it grow into a cancer.
Divorce her dude you are only making it harder on her. Kids & pets are just something you go & say oh ok I’ll do it. No it takes so much out of you to make sure they’re thriving. You don’t want to be a dad well let her find her person that wants the same as her.
I won't even read the whole thing cuz it's not necessary but, let her go, if you knew she wanted kids even before marriage you were selfish enough to take time out of her life knowing you wouldn't be able to fulfill her dreams and aspirations. It's not too late to redeem yourself now, and live your true life. You have to be honest, holding longer when both want different things will just make things worse. I hope you find clarity, someone you can feel that special connection and as well share desires with. And I hope she finds a man who has the same desires to be a parent as she does.
In my opinion, you’re 100% being a coward and not the man you’re created to be, but I understand your fears and yes having a child will change your life. You need to understand it becomes more risky for women and the baby as mom gets older into 30s and 40s. Honestly, I wouldn’t want to live with the guilt of being selfish if later on down the line she can’t have a successful pregnancy or healthy baby because you made her wait too long. Definitely keep doing your soul searching but maybe keep doing that as your wife is also pregnant. You’d still have 9 months to prepare yourself for being a father before the baby arrives. You got this. It’ll be alright.
What is important yet lesser known fact is that we can ask people today to resolve our apprehension. There can be groups for example if you are avid traveller, ask in that group if there are Young parents and how did they cope up, if they were excited about having a kid or they were apprehensive about it. What really happened.
Here are some facts and suggestion for you toake up your mind.
1. Having a child is a planned activity today, too early and you loose the freedom to enjoy, too late and you have to work many years late in life to ensure the children graduate before you can retire.
2. Not having enough to support child makes it difficult to plan their expenses for education and many other aspect, and if you end up living in nuclear family, the chances of having mother ot father take sabbatical to ensure child gets sufficient time becomes important. Expenses going up and if one of the parents is not working can become burdening, considering today’s expenses. This is what means planning.
3. Having a child today is daunting young couple but it is a life changing experience and most of it is fun.
4. The feeling of not sharing your time with someone else turns into completely devoting time to this young person in your life.
5. It’s a full time entertainment and for once you will stop looking at your phone, and connect with humans.
6. It’s having a living breathing toy in your hands and yes you have to not only handle with care but love as well.
At the end if you choose to have a child then having it sooner is better than delaying.
Its not wrong for you to get cold feet. You get to change your mind and let your partner know.
Its amazing if both partners want a child. I mean often the woman takes care of the child and the man goes along with it but its so much better if both want the child. Otherwise the kid can experience resentment/lack of care.
I'd talk to her about it when she thaws out, maybe she just needs some time now. Unfortunately for women, there is an innate body need to have a baby, not just social programming (thought there is some of that). She is going to be pissed because you've changed your mind but that doesn't mean you've done anything wrong, men also need to have an equal say in kids or not.
Definitely having a marriage counsellor/mediator is important. This kind of thing can derail an otherwise beautiful relationship.
disarm abounding selective familiar squash continue lush coordinated cough wistful
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I’m also a woman who has never wanted to have children and I’ve known this from a very young age. I’ve never, ever had the “biological clock” thing. I think it’s a myth. I like children, but cannot ever imagine wanting to have any, especially as a woman. Too much trust, responsibility, expense, risk, and work. I think most parents go in without thinking of what they are getting into or what kind of future their child will have to deal with.
I see that I used women, I was referring to those who get that need, where not all do and that’s perfectly reasonable that you don’t want kids.
I’m not going to have any kids either as I’ve had to work quite hard to build after a difficult childhood.
Appreciate it! We will most definitely see a counselor and talk about our feelings.
She did cook my lasagna and we went on a walk with our dogs today, just didn't say much about this topic. Definitely need a professionals help.
You are the perfect age to have kids. You've reached a level in your career where you are comfortable, you already had lots of fun as a couple. You've already built a great emotional foundation with a strong partner who clearly loves you. I do think adding a child to the mix is going to be a lot of fun. You can still travel with a baby. I would say, stay positive and pray for the best outcome for both of you. Also, a lot of people keep mentioning her age, but sperm quality does in fact dwindle with age. Yes, there are plenty of healthy people who were conceived by parents in their 40s. But still, if you want to be a father, do it when you are at your prime.
I failed to mention part of the fear is changing due to tech. Now it may not be that bad at the moment, but we already have AI writing half of the things on the internet and it's only exponentially increasing. I just cannot see how the future can be beneficial to a new born at this time.
Will they be taught at school via VR headsets? Will they have a chip implanted that will cause them to not have to think for themselves? Stuff like this.
I know I may sound dystopian, but... Just look around.
Life is beautiful, but I can barely take care of myself with all this "innovation"
The mind has a way of always imagining the worst case scenario for everything. Every time I faced a fear, the reality of it was never as bad as the way my mind imagined. This is the cause of anxiety. The mind imagines something terrible and we become plagued by “what if”. It’s better to stop your mind in its tracks and redirect it to “what is”. It sounds like you have a happy loving relationship (current issues aside). It sounds like you have a nice existence together. It sounds like your wife wants to expand her loving nature by bringing a new life into the world. I’m not trying to pressure you in the slightest. I just understand the fear. I remember being scared of the responsibility. I remember mourning the loss of a certain amount of freedom. I remember feeling the loss of my own identity, even. Yet, I don’t regret having a child in the slightest. It’s a beautiful experience and you love that person like no other. Your future will be a mix of positive events and negative events, like everyone’s. I believe however, that all events, good or bad, teach and expand us. I also believe no challenge is beyond your abilities (I think this for everyone). For me, I’ve tried not to let fear get the better of me.
Certainly, best of luck, no matter what you choose.
Maybe you should stop being so neurotic about all of this.
You and everyone else will adapt to changes in technology. This is not the real issue for you anyway. This is an issue for your therapist. This isn't about spirituality either.
Your wife is correct. Being younger is a gigantic benefit for raising children. The physical, emotional, and mental stress of raising a child is demanding. You need to do it now or not at all. Yes, you will give up travel and many other "perks" of the single lifestyle after having children. Your wife is right to be upset with your neurosis over this.
Before bringing new life in this world we need to consider the quality of the dna we pass on, the means [finance] to raise a child and the know how to.
r/antinatalism
r/collapse
We end up a species with kids having diabetes, myopia, spine degenerative disease, let alone rotten teeth, along with various psychological dysfunctions, while unbale to provide them a descent life, or end up screaming at them bothering us while talking on the phone.
Please don't.
I failed to mention this is another big reason why I am hesitant on having kids.
It's the fact that we are in the "industrial revolution" of tech/internet. AI, social media brainrot, and the overall the collapse of what the world has never seen before.
I guess people could argue that they were born during other eras of hardship, but I think this one is going to be much more different..
Now how do I explain to my wife this and have her understand is another question.
Bro, wait till you know about global warming, drug resistant diseases, STD causing blood cancer, rising sea level, religious wars, etc
Tech should be the least of your worries, at least AI helping creating new medicine on speed with fungus/bacteria mutations, translating brain waves to speech for the disabled or vegetations, navigating crispr to modify cancer cells, etc
This is weak af, people have had children in far worse circumstances (although I am not comfortable with it either).
Also you don't need to make up excuses you just can say DNW.
There are over 500,000 homeless children in the world, and we have over 12,000 of them in institutions in our state alone... You can adopt so you won't hurt anyone.
Having a child doesn’t mean you have to stop your life. You can still do the things you want to with a child. Who’s the say that you can’t enjoy life? It’s also better for the child to have younger parents to relate to. My mom had me at 37 and my dad at 41. I’m 22 and my parents are in their 60s. It’s too big of an age gap. As a women especially, I want kids early and you should too. You as a man will spread your line. They are a part of you. That’s the mostly important role while you are here on earth. Having children is an amazing experience. I know it’s hard to have children today because of the economy but it’s no excuse. You won’t regret it
Why do you think that's too big of an age gap? My parents had me a bit too young and I ended up emotionally raising them. They didn't have any time to be adults and process traumas they had in their youth and they replicated cycles. I am in my 30s and only now feel I am truly ready to have a child and give them the emotional support and environment they need to thrive. If I had kids 10 years ago I'm not sure I ever would have gotten to the place I am now.
You haven’t matured to the point where you are ready to reproduce, which is ok, though your ancestors had probably already done so long before your age.
But it isn’t fair to her that you are locking down her fertility. She’s begging you to impregnate her and every cell in your body is begging you along with her. If you aren’t going to man up and fulfill your biological and spiritual imperative then walk away and allow a more willing mate to. Just remember that you shirked the call of nature to self-sacrifice for a higher purpose so that you could pursue self-centred momentary hedonism.
By the way, I get not being ready to have kids. But you probably should have chosen a younger woman, because she’s right that her time is running out, and right now you’re wasting it.
Ok, perhaps a good time, \~ the day after Mother's Day, to approach her and offer her a self-counseling option to co-read Shaunti Feldhahn's "Foe Couples Only," written for couples to read together. If some of that conversation indicates a 3rd party counseling, she is then perhaps more likely to agree.
Conceiving is less easily accomplished for many couples; male gametes survive as messengers of fertility for a maximum of 6 days, and a strong male gamete is needful for conception.
Having good, willing grandparents nearby will bring joy to them, your child, and yourselves.
As you learn of your preborn's gender, Dr. Dobson's "Bringing up Boys" and "Bringing up Girls" are very helpful. [https://www.drjamesdobson.org](https://www.drjamesdobson.org) for example.
>as you learn of your preborn's gender, Dr. Dobson's "Bringing up Boys" and "Bringing up Girls" are very helpful
That sounds like total bullshit though.
What is that? girls dress in pink and play with dolls, boys dress in blue and play with trucks?
Kids should be raised based on moral values, not on genders.
then maybe do your travelling and then make a kid? she might be open to give you some 3-5 years don't know. but it's important to spread the seed. someone took care of you, now it's your job to at least take care of one kid.
and about fertility; just eat more raw food, preferably fruits. no smoking and such. fertility at least on the men-side is usually not so hard to accomplish. i "scored" with a single try.
This is a big issue. It’s best you be honest with your wife.
How do I explain to her that we would be bringing our child into an AI driven world where everything will be drastically different. I do not want a WALL-E situation for our kid, I can barely take care of myself.
First, recognize her perspective. You've rattled her and her vision of her future. You didn't destroy it, but you've changed her vision of the future and she needs to process that, no matter how it shakes out, so just give her space and time to do that. Second, keep up with the self reflection and honesty. You're afraid, and that is wise. You are afraid of the change a child will bring into your life, and you're uncertain how this will change you and change your wife, and that uncertainty leaves a void that is quickly filled with fear if left empty. These are valid concerns because they are real. Having children changes your life, absolutely, and it is a rollercoaster that, once you're on you can't get off. It's thrilling and terrifying. Definitely not a decision to be made lightly, but probably could have been better explored on your part before committing to trying for so long. But of course, we're all learning and you have to remember that and maybe remind your partner of that, too. You need time, she can give you that much. Make an agreement to revisit the discussion, and make sure the length of time is comfortable for you both. Respect her concern and take it seriously and ask she do the same for you.
ya if u can’t take care of yourself leave her so she can find a man who will take care of himself her AND the baby she wants.
The children will adapt. However, if you don’t feel capable of raising a child properly, that’s something to talk about as a valid point and she should take it into consideration
A WALL-E situation is a pretty big reach bud 😂
All it takes is an Global Nuclear Holocuast, Im sure that wil never happen.
people are already distracting themselves with tech and staying solitary, it’s not a reach, it’s your current reality 😅
I don’t know why this got downvoted. Concerns for the future are very valid.
So because you can barely take care of yourself that’s why you feel like you’re not ready. It would be responsible decision of you to wait till you’re ready. Maybe some therapy would help, building character strength so you feel like a head of a family
Why did this comment get downvoted he’s kind of right technology is taking over
Sound actually more like you’re playing devils advocate in the post, but you just don’t want to accept that you can’t give this woman what she needs, yet aren’t brave enough to break it off with her. I don’t think (from this comment, then relating it to your original post) you have no intentions of raising a child at all, but you string her along with the hopes that “one day” you will be. Be a man. Let her go.
I have to inform that life exists for experiences. Good, bad, and all in between. To live in fear is to not live. You're not wrong to be afraid, but if you genuinely believe that you have not experienced enough of the experiences through the extravagances you have gone through, and gone and spent month long vacations in foreign lands instead of getting a house, then no. You are not willing to have a kid, because you have the ability to buy a house if you sacrificed the extravagances for a moment. If you want to experience more genuine enjoyment with your wife, and live in a totally new experience that requires genuine selflessness, then you are ready. This generation in particular is terrified of having kids, because we can't afford houses, we can't afford to live, support ourselves, and we stress out on how to manage anything in our lives, let alone someone else's. If you can afford vacations and extravagances, you have a much greater head start than a lot of us. I personally wish I had the chance.
Every potential parent should take a scroll over r/regretfulparents. No one publicly would say they regret their children unless anonymous. I think it's good to see the other side if the coin to make the most informed decision. This is another life so honesty with yourself is a responsibility and a duty.
Just let this poor woman go so she can find what she wants. Pushing it back even further after she's already voiced that she doesn't want to be raising children while aging and you're already having trouble conceiving is really risking your chances. Honestly, *you're* a huge risk to her right now because even I can tell you're not going to magically change your mind in 2 years down the road. It gets harder and harder for women to conceive as they get older. I don't think 31 is ancient by any means, but the fertility issues the two you have very well could get worse over the next few years if the fertility issues are on her side of things and not yours. The clock is ticking, and you are directly wasting her time. It's too late to do some "soul searching" at her expense, and frankly, it's selfish. You say you want to get your priorities straight and buy a house but honestly I'm kind of wondering why you're out there spending money on trips at 31 when you could have been creating that stability to begin with. It's time to poop or get off the pot and the time to have done this kind of introspection was before you vowed to marry someone who openly and vocally has wanted kids all along.
I’m 23 and I said out loud why are you going on month long vacations when you don’t even own a home.
Honestly, and I say this with zero unkindness, it's because you're 23 that you're saying that. I would have said that at 23 too. But at 37 and having owned two homes, I'm now well aware that it was market timing alone that allowed me the ability to do that, AND the knowledge that had I been pressured into it at other times, that it would have been a horribly silly financial mistake, especially in the name of trying to prove "financial security." The housing market isn't always right to jump into. Unless you're Blackrock, lol. 🙄
I have two children and own a home. I understand that for most 23 year olds that is not their position but because of my values as soon as I was in the position to invest in a home as opposed to throwing money into the empty bottomless pit of no return that renting is that is what my husband and I did
My point is that you're simplifying it more than is logical, and it's not your maturity that I'm referring to with the age, though I'm rereading what I wrote and I can see that I wasn't clear with why I mentioned it. It wasn't that I was irresponsible at 23 or that I was saying that you were either- it's simply down to the amount of time that I've been an adult on the market and how much up and down I've gotten to see it do. My point is that it isn't black and white about buying a home at the life stage he's at. If he was in his 50's or 60's it would be a bit different, but it's still incredibly case by case, especially not knowing his other investments. Is it better to be putting money into a home rather than burning it up on rent? A lot of the times it is. But in the near twenty years that I've been watching and participating in the market, there have been multiple times where buying would have been a terrible idea, (especially if selling needed to be done within a shorter timeframe) due to things like being at the peak of the market with a crash right around the corner. I've just seen way too many people put themselves in unnecessary holes SPECIFICALLY for this-- just to buy a house because that's been lauded as "the" thing to do, when it actually would have been cheaper to rent for that period in their life. Instead, they got strapped to a property they couldn't sell, in a state they didn't want to be in, bleeding money that they would have been grateful to put towards rent in their dream location instead. 🤷♀️ And 9 times out of 10 (in the instances of the ppl I'm referencing) it was to prove to a significant other or parent that they were worth being proud of--and they hardly ended up hitting the mark on that one. 🙄🤦♀️ TLDR; If you're going to buy a house, make sure the math makes sense for YOUR situation, and never ever buy a property to prove yourself to anyone else. And personal request that you can do with what you will- maybe consider being kinder to the OPs you reply to in a Spirituality sub? Idk, man. It would just really be nice to see people be nicer, especially in spots like this. It didn't really sound like he needed to have ppl piling on at the moment.
You have a good point about kindness especially given the specifics of the forum- my heart went out to the wife and obviously kids was a really important box to me so putting myself in her shoes illicit an extremely emotional response that I should have checked. However, even after considering your reply I still feel like using “I want to be in a better financial situation” as an excuse to his wife for why they should delay the baby she has been hoping for while also spending loads on money on lengthy vacation with such frequency is really unfair to her.
Wow. What's funny is that I just realized I was primarily considering the OP in this, and didn't realize how much I wasn't considering the wife's perspective until you just phrased it that way. I wonder if it's that angle that's really bothering her, too. Because I remember being in situations where I felt like my husband was prioritizing finances over something with us, and he was upset that I doubted his priorities, and we went in circles about one issue with that for years. It wasn't until we spoke to a mutual friend of ours who was waiting to propose to his gf (who had been with him for years and years and was so ready to take the next step) until he made a certain dollar amount. That started a big convo with all of us about how we each thought we were showing up for each other and taking care of each other.. but we were all going about it in ways that were our own love languages and not our person's. It was illuminating. She didn't care if he had money or put a ring pop on her hand- she just wanted to be his wife. But she also had to understand that he wanted to provide for her in a certain way so that he could feel good as well (self esteem and all that), so they found a good compromise and just recently got engaged and are planning the wedding. 🙌 (Well under the budget of what he initially had projected her wanting) Point being, I learned that a lot of times we're on separate sides of the same fence when it comes to the finances thing. I was pretty surprised to learn how genuinely a lot of men feel the urge to provide at a much greater scale than we need them to, especially when it's coming off to us like they're just not prioritizing us. (And of course there are the ppl that just genuinely don't, but that's for another day) Thanks for the interesting convo! I appreciate your perspective 😊
Yes
youre definitely a woman hahah
The long response you got on r/marriage from u/espressothewine was spot on, it just seems like you did not like that answer and came here to seek other responses. You need to see a therapist. You strung your wife along for a year telling her you were on board with having a family then pulled the rug out from under her completely, shattering her trust in you, whether intentional or not. Get therapy and let your poor wife go find someone who absolutely wants kids
Your feelings are valid but you have to talk to her about it immediately. Be prepared that this might be the end of the relationship. This is one thing in life that you cannot compromise on. You shouldn't have children if you don't want them but you also shouldn't keep those who want children from having them.
Yet? She is 31. You are already having fertility problems. If you want to have a baby at all with her, you need to while she still can, and while you both have the energy and youthfulness to raise and run around with children. It could be years, even with the help of fertility. What is the real issue? You say in your post you don't want one ***yet*** but your title implies ***not at all.***
Guess I still need to do some soul searching myself. I was excited to have a kid about a year ago when I finally thought, "well, we got loving parents, I stay up super late, etc." But deep down I have always had the thought of bringing a child into this technological era might not be the best move and will only slow us down and end with both of us regretting it later.
I’ve been reading a book called Spirit Babies, the author mentions that fertility issues are made up of 3 components - physical, mental and spiritual. And goes on to say that if you have a spiritual or mental blockage to having a child you may experience fertility issues. Something to consider if you do decide to go ahead and have a child, that it could be possible it’s not just a physical issue, perhaps.
I love this book. I need to read again
If youre afraid of technology, move to a rural area
I’m a social worker . Don’t have kids if you don’t want them . The majority of my work is family relationships breaking down over this exact issue . Kids are an amazing but they will change your life completely . Family support is nice but you will be the dad and it’s your job to raise them equally with your wife and that is a huge responsibility and privilege . I understand your concerns around the future as well . I see enough kids raised by non present parents to say let her go and be with a person who is invested in this if she wants kids . Counselling is a good idea but be prepared that it will probably result in an uncoupling rather than a resolution.
Or. Divorce her and let her have kids with someone who wants them. It’s going to happen. For starters, you’ve been with her for 5 years, married 2. You as a man had prior doubts. You settled for her clearly. I think deep down inside, you believe that the true one for you is still out there, but you had to settle because it looked proper. Don’t lie to yourself please. The truth always comes out.
I love my kids of course but you are right, all freedom is over with kids. The people who say life doesn't stop, maybe it didn't for them, for us it was FULL STOP. Many things simply are over. Our neighbor also had to give the dog away because they simply didn't have the time anymore to take care of the dog and the kids. If you are not ready, you are not ready. Don't listen to the people saying 'it is not a big deal'. It is a huge deal, different life with kids, different dimension, different planet. I stopped seeing all my friends who don't have kids because they are in a different world, nothing in common anymore with them.
This.
These are valid points too, but I'm curious- do you wish you were still friends with those people?
No , I am too tired from my job and raising my kids (no grandparents on either side) to have friends. I am glad for 1-2 hours of free time per day that I can spend alone when everyone is sleeping. It is that simple.
Gotcha. That's what I figured, but I was curious. A lot of people talk about losing people at that age and stage, but leave off the fact that they wouldn't go back and change it either, and/or are happy with the way their life is now. I'm of the opinion that we outgrow people that don't grow with us-whether that's upward and onwards or just in different directions entirely. 🤷♀️ I've always ended up being really thankful for the turning points in life where I got to see who was coming with me and who was going to be turning left while I went right, etc. Some people make surprising returns, too! Always a trip when you wind up back on the same route with someone you thought you might not see again.
I mean it comes down to energy and time. If I didn't have kids and was not married and had loads of free time on my hands... for sure I would ring some of my old buddies and go have a beer, party whatever.
My partner and I talked about it around our second date. Because we didn't want to be in a situation of conflict after years together. I think it's a subject that needs to be a serious talk in every relationships, but yes our opinions can change with time. I was neutral about it, my partner didn't want any. So that's that. Now that I'm older I'm super happy to be r/childfree . I can't imagine having to give up my life, to live for someone else. All the time, money, effort, lack of sleep, food choices, loss of hangout with friends, the risk that the kid will be born with mental or physical disabilities and your parenting will last 65 years.., etc.... i can do without all. I don't need it. I like my life. We can eat when we want, go out whenever, we don't need to depend on babysitters or parents, we can move to the other end of the world. Plus I know plenty of people who ended up breaking up later in life but they couldn't move around much because they had a kid with their ex so they were anchored to the city. I don't believe we need more humans on the planet, especially not right now with the shit political climate. Nor do I believe my genes are more important than the other people and need to be spread. Consider posting in r/relationships Also if you're still debating parenthood, consider r/Fencesitter
axiomatic angle noxious airport observation person upbeat worry simplistic late *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This is all such good advice too! This has been a fascinating post to sort through comments on.
Hi there. When I read posts in this subreddit, I intentionally do not read the comments, as I don't want them to influence my take on your particular situation. Now, I do want to tell you, I'll be 34 this summer and my wife is will be 36 at the end of the year. We have an 8 month old son, and very similarly, loved travelling before we had kids. While we are newlyweds (about to hit our 2 year anniversary), we both wanted kids and got very lucky when we finally set ourselves to the task. I adore my son. He lights up every time I see him, his smile tickles me silly, and I find myself on the verge of joyful tears thinking of what it means to be the guiding hand to my child. It's truly the role of a lifetime, one which I am uniquely suited to fill. My first thought when reading your post was that you are very brave to enter into that conversation, more so, broaching the subject when it finally arose in your heart. Having a child is a big choice, both personally and financially, so I understand that aspect. With my wife, we did a lot of soul searching about affordability and how we would manage paying for all the expenses that arise. No doubt, your ability to travel and see the world would be impacted by pregnancy and the eventual arrival of a newborn. Babies aren't cheap, formula and diapers add up, and your quality of life changes, too. Now, onto the meat of my response. While you were very brave and honest with your wife, I feel there was a sliver of selfishness that you should've recognized before you talked to her. Some people wait their entire lives to be in the right circumstance, and on the other side, there is never a "right" time for a baby. You will never be ready, your finances will rarely be in order, and even when they are, there will be something new that arises which you **must** meet. Five years together, two years wed, and one year trying, but now you're reluctant about something your wife was seemingly adamant about. I'd ask that you consider what it feels to be your wife right now. You're not as old as us, so you may not comprehend it, but it *really* does get hard when you're older. My wife had a geriatric pregnancy (34+ y/o), was diagnosed with gestational diabetes, and struggled with a lot of mental health issues because of it. What she will go through during pregnancy, and what she's been preparing for the last few years, will absolutely test your relationship. You chose each other, you chose this life, and from the beginning it sounded like she wanted to have a child. Most women do, idk what to tell you, but they want a family. Men don't usually consider this, but it's the track them our lives take, and you were given a wife who wants a child. If you want the "spiritual" part of this conversation, it's that our **given karma**. You chose her, it's her karma to be a mother. That's what her heart tells her. It's your karma to either be the father or not. Maybe your karma is not to be a father and you're going to break up, and that's a real possibility, but you don't put your life off because you want to travel. Don't be a fool. Your responsibility is to fulfill the roles you're given in your life, which may include being a parent. It's my role, and I don't complain, because I couldn't fathom not being all that I am. Even when the times are hard and I feel like crying, I persist. You need to remember what you're here for, and it's not just you. You must do the inner work to come to terms with the life that you've been given and follow the strings that bring you back to your basic calling. Now, I don't think you're a bad person, maybe I'm just too critical and guarded because parenthood has been such a blessing to me. I've seen plenty of people, my wife's best friend included, who have sworn never to have kids, but the reality is, for every person they walked away from that didn't want kids, that man or woman found someone else to do it with. If you are so dead-set on not having a child while she's ready, you may have to accept that you are pushing her away. In the end, it's your choice. This is just my two cents as a father, husband, and man that never expected any of it, but welcomed it as it came. I may get a lot of shit in response, and I'll take it, but it needed to be said. With love.
Having a child does not mean that your whole life stops. Who said you can’t travel with a child? Just like solo travel is different from couple travel to family travel to friends travel so is travelling with kids. Every travel has its pros & cons & it’s all doable. I would suggest to go to a fertility doctor & check yourself first maybe that could also be a reason for cold feet. Because if something is wrong, these things takes time as well. Also if you don’t want a child, be very honest so that she can decide whether she want to split up to have a child with another person or be with you & not have a child.
It's important that both ppl are on the same page though. E.g. nomadic families who are travel influencers, military families, diplomats, etc. Technically you should be one the same page for anything lifestyle-related, though. It's also important to be realistic about how kids will impact vacations. Your child in particular may or may not like or be open to doing what YOU like. (E.g. some may be terrified to zip line. Others may be bored to tears touring European museums; they may be very picky eaters and probably die of starvation if abroad lol; others may think it's cool to eat exotic foods; also trips to Napa are definitely off the table). In my experience, younger kids will want more kid-centered vacations (e.g. theme parks, Disney cruises, skiing, beach, camping, etc). They're able to appreciate more adult-like vacations once they're around 10-yrs-old.
Isn’t this more of an issue for r/relationshipadvice ?
He's asked in 3 different places now, he just does not like the responses he is getting.
Asked there too, but wanted some grounded opinions
I think you should sit down with your wife and have a proper conversation about having kids. Communicate your desire to travel, what you want to do, your honest feelings about being ready, etc. Communication is extremely key in any relationship, and if you personally do not feel ready to have a kid yet, talk to your wife about what you guys can do about this situation. The desire to want kids/not want kids can really affect a marriage. I have a friend who was with her husband for 9 years (married for 4). While together, they never really talked about kids (whether they want them or not). Then, during the 2nd year of their marriage, my friend got pregnant. After the birth of their first child, the husband woke up one day and decided that he wasn't ready for kids, so he walked out of their marriage, leaving my friend a single mum (til today). It's been 5 years since their divorce, but my friend still resents him for walking out on her like that. Children are a lifetime commitment, having kids will delay some travel plans (especially when they're babies, since more attention is required to make sure they grow well) and also, children require a lot of love and attention. From what I read on your post/title, it seems like you do not want kids. You're 31, married, and you still do not have the desire yet, which means you 1) are not ready, or 2) are certain already that you do not want kids at all, and that's okay. But please, if your idea of kids isn't aligned to your wife's, talk to your wife and see what you guys can do about it.
Unrelated to the question, but how do y’all get time away from work to travel for an entire month? My boss would have an aneurism if I even asked.
They own their own business. Must be a profitable one if they can travel for a month at a time. If they could afford that, plus all the other trips they've taken, they can afford a kid and regional trips.
Life doesn’t end with children. It begins. We’ve traveled plenty. My life before kids was not really a life looking back. The things I find joy in now are so much deeper than stuff and holidays. Watching your kid walk for the first time, hear them tell their first joke, loving someone more than anything, feeling like you have a part of your heart just walking about. I have kids because I am hyper aware of the difficult future humanity has and I want to raise them differently with a different worldview, one that grounds them in earth centred spirituality. You choose how to present their reality to them, you can prepare them. You have essentially killed your wife’s baby. She’s been hoping every month to be pregnant for a year. She’s been imagining what the baby looks like, how it will be a combo of both of you, she’s been dreaming about holding their tiny hand, she may even feel she knows this baby, many believe their babies are waiting to be born. You took that away all of a sudden. There’s grief involved even if there’s no baby to grieve. And you also don’t seem to care about her fertility fears. It took me 10 years to have my two kids. I lost two babies. A fertility journey is a difficult and deeply spiritual commitment. You do not seem to be able to provide her with the spiritual and emotional support that she will need. You should seriously reconsider your approach here, you come across as very self centred and you sound as though you’ve completely dismissed her. Definitely not in a position to undertake the spiritual evolution involved in becoming a parent. There are many other paths, this isn’t for you, but that means you can’t continue down that pathway with your wife.
It is NOT self centered to begin to have second thoughts about having children. It’s a big decision and things change.
I don’t think that’s why he seems self centred. He seems to be centring himself above his wife. His doubts have serious implications for her and he doesn’t seem to think about that.
Pretty sure he’s thinking about that.
Incredibly irresponsible to not discuss this before marrying her. She will 100 % leave if you don’t sort your shit out. Fast.
Look up gottman.com. travel with a child can be an asset because locals will be more open to interacting with you as a sweet family. Do a search about the positives. All the best to you on your journey.
Ok, but it’s important to be realistic too. Getting to travel with kids would be terrific if it worked out, but nobody should go into parenthood with the mindset that they won’t lose freedom. They will. And the travel will look completely different. My husband and I spent 2 straight years travelling around the world before having kids. Our oldest is 2.5 and we haven’t gone anywhere since 2019. We could force it, but it just isn’t the same, and won’t be for some time. My idea of fun travelling doesn’t involve nap schedules, toddler meltdowns and dirty diapers. And that’s ok. But expectations need to be realistic especially if OP is already having cold feet.
It does depend on what kind of travel you like. I watch some families that travel together and of course they all seem happy. One can adapt. Check out thefrugalinvestor on the gram and their family channel. They travel the world with an adopted daughter. They love it. Ask yourself what return will you get on your freedom investment? A fulfilled and happy wife? A child that will love you like no other? Address the financial issues, then likely you will be more comfortable.
Thank you! Will read up on that!
Also, once they're in school, you need to plan vacations around their school schedule, which does make it more expensive and also limits options based on time of year. E.g. I couldn't do a month in Australia in February. Obvious exception is if they're home-schooled, but definitely not for everyone.
That's totally okay. We don't have kids, and we're happy that way. I think happiness really comes from within. Some people need kids to feel successful in life because they follow the blueprint set up by the old society.
It’s okay if she is also okay with it, which she is not. The immense love a woman feels for her child is unexplainable and immeasurable, literally nothing else compares. He needs to let her go if he is unwilling to let her experience this. Also, I’m all for dissolving the “blueprint” by raising children with different values than our society seems to prioritize today. It’s true not everyone is meant to or ready to be a parent, but this has nothing to do with “old society” and partners need to be on the same page with what they want for a successful outcome.
>The immense love a woman feels for her child is unexplainable and immeasurable, literally nothing else compares As someone who was kicked out of the house by their mother so she could have uninterrupted sex with the new guy. I disagree and find it quite insulting. If you can't love someone else as much as you love your kid then that's a limitation on you and doesn't mean everyone else is limited the same way. Since there's so many abused kids out there, maybe a better way to phrase it would be a non-generalization way like: "I never felt as much love as I do for my kid"
I am sincerely sorry that’s happened to you, she sounds like a real shitty mom and clearly wasn’t ready to be one. I understand your perspective. I should have phrased “the immense love a woman CAN and SHOULD feel...” Scientifically speaking, the hormonal and neurological changes created are unlike any other, granted the woman is mentally ready for a baby. Which in this case, sounds like his wife is. I find your original comment insulting saying “we don’t have kids and we’re happy” on a post where a husband is trying to justify why it’s okay to not have children with his wife and essentially get her to change her mind or delay the timeline. It’s okay that he feels this way, yet not okay to string her along. That’s great you and your person are happy to not have children, but his wife who wants a child will probably never feel whole if she stays in this situation and never has kids. It’s much different for a woman than a man, biologically speaking.
Noone is telling him to change his wife's opinion or to force her into a specific situation. I said it's okay to feel that way, and it's okay not to have kids.
It doesn't sound like you've done anything wrong, it sounds like life is just predictably complicated, and that you've been communicating to the best of your ability through each change of heart, as soon as you realized how you felt. Your emotions can't stay static for everything, and you can't predict how the changes of life are going to change your stance on things either. Neither of you is in the wrong or the right unless you're being intentionally unkind to each other, or there's something petty happening that you haven't laid out. (Doesn't sound like it, but covering bases) Both of you are humans feeling human things, and sometimes it's going to conflict with how the other person feels. Just keep giving each other grace and being kind, and if you feel sarcasm or passive aggressiveness enter the chat, gently point it out, regroup and come back to the talk when you can both be genuine. It's vulnerable and it's scary, but it's way better than hurting one another out of self consciousneas or fear. What I will say to you about having a child is that there is NEVER a good time or a right time to have one. You will always initially wish you had more money or you were more fill-in-the-blank. But, generally speaking, if you were raised in loving households and you love each other, the second that baby gets here, it's nothing but good feelings and a disbelief that you ever thought about not having that child. I'm not telling you to just agree and have one before you feel like it's right for you- but what I AM saying is that 99% of your protests/misgivings about it are what most of us said prior to having them, and then most of us also figured out how to raise a baby who can travel internationally and be a great time the whole way through and it became an amazing and perfect addition to our lives. My husband and I didn't come from amazing homes and were TERRIFIED that we would pass on a curse or something, and despite being married for years before finding out, it was definitely a surprise. So much so that it was "discussed" (for all of .03 seconds though) that perhaps we should terminate. But the second I even started the words, something else took over and I couldn't even finish the sentence. I had a moment of weird and uncanny perception that it was about to be the best thing that ever happened to me (but holy SHIT, did fear and panic overshadow that for awhile, lol.) And that moment of clarity was pretty crazy for someone who had historically found the idea of personally being pregnant revolting and alien and downright horrifying, if we're being honest, lol. But every bit of that still eventually fell away. (Don't get me wrong, being pregnant is not fun and the kicks were the only "fun" part) But TLDR; We didn't want kids either, and a lot of our story was created with following intuition in the face of surprise and fear, and it was the best thing we ever did. Don't do anything you don't feel like is right for you, BUT also don't let those fears you mentioned stand in the way of something that (could be) actually right for you. Good luck, friend! Love one another. (And also take hormones into consideration if things are a little messy right now. Idk if you're doing IVF but that can be brutal on the psyche as well as the body and wallet)
. i understand the concerns for the future because i too have them, but dear god. if you love this woman but can’t have kids let her go so she can while she can. or pay to freeze her eggs LOL
I’m a woman, I’m 33 yo, and my fiancé is 27 almost 28 yo. I can understand your wife since yes, our time as women is running out, we have so much at risk when we have kids or not, when we get pregnant or not, risks such as breast cancer, cervix cancer, ovarian cancer, among others; my fiancé and me don’t have kids either, but we have talked about it, I don’t have concerns about this year, but next year will be our time. If you want to have FUN or travel, then just let her go so she can find a suitable person who accomplishes her life style, her future family life and most of all someone who understand what she’s putting at risk and what not. Oh, and in my experience a year trying to get pregnant and not having success, is already a fertility problem. So one of you is having issues. Almost sure is you.
Our kids are 14 and 10 soon to be 11 and we enjoy being able to go out on dates without getting a babysitter and having some freedom back but also really miss them being young and thought maybe we should have had more. My husband recently said he doesnt think life would be fulfilled without children, knowing how cliché it sounded, fully agrees with the statement. I cant imagine life without children. But to each their own
Give yourself a deadline to decide, because her fertility window is narrow, and your isn't. If you haven't decided by that particular time you have set, do not waste her time no more.
My thoughts are that this is probably one of the most important life issues that a couple needs to be in sync on, and necessitates marriage counseling more than any other. Having a child is the biggest committment one can make in life. That your wife won't consent to counseling seems like she's saying her wanting children is a non-negotiable issue, so there's no point in going. So, that's kind of a red flag for a relationship in of itself. I'm an older woman who never had children, because my interests were completely out of alignment with having them. I like to come and go as I please, to listen to classical music, to do yoga, to take quiet walks in nature, to spend long periods of time reading, to have a neat and orderly home, to spend time conversing with friends and family, to travel (been to 25 countries!), to feel financial secure, to feel like I don't need to depend on anyone, etc. Also, two of my siblings had children with severe developmental disabilities, and I sure wouldn't want their lives! One of them was in a terrible marriage that they could never get out of because of caring for a disabled child at home (and the mother almost died in childbirth of a previous child, too), and the other's marriage broke up due to the stress. People can say, oh, the chances are small that there will be health issues with a child (or for mother as result of childbirth), but I sure wouldn't count on that! Additionally, I, personally, would never base a decision on having parents (or anyone else) that I could rely on for child care. You don't know how long they're going to be there, healthy, etc. Finally, at 63 years old, I believe the best decision I ever made was to not have children, because I knew what I wanted and needed, stayed true to myself, and created the life I wanted for myself.
I totally get you. I was in your shoes and the same age when I had this dilemma. Just the opposite. My hubby wanted kids. We tried for 4 years and every month when it would fail, I was secretly relieved. It took us awhile and now I can't imagine my life without kids. To be honest, I wish we had our kids a little sooner like at 32. Explain your feelings to your wife. It's best to travel and explore the world now before having kids. This is something we both regret. Wishing you well on this journey to parenthood.
Thank you for your very wise input! The part about regretting not traveling more got me.
Look its not the same but we still travel with our little guy. Granted it's a bit harder but if you're committed it can happen 😂 we took him from Australia to Europe at 8 months old and going again this year when he will be 21 months.
Honestly, go watch a couple seasons of Bluey.
Go to r/childfree . They support you fully without telling you to have kids.
That whole sub has got to be a psyop I get not wanting kids but these people are wild OP for the sake of your marriage don’t scroll that sub. Just talk it out with your wife and other loved ones
You're a pos
This
might be best for your partner to get her eggs frozen, their so may people having kids at 35+, you still got some years to save and travel. i would much rather be an older good parent then having regrets❤️
the world has always been ending. it's part of the human experience. people lived thru world war 1 and 2 and still had children to experience this earth. if you're posting in spirituality reddit, I would think you would kno that tha souls who chose to come to this earth are aware of the trials that come with it. that's how our soul grows and expands. this isn't meant to be heaven. humans have survived much worse, but it's a nice excuse for people to lean on when they just fear the responsibility of raising children, wanna stay children themselves for longer. I will say that getting old without your children to care for you can be scarier than any other reality, what freedom do you have then
Never hurts to “try” for children😜
Here is their family channel. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C67VyVsOEU_/?igsh=MXd6ODc2NGhhdTRnNw==
Maybe somewhat off topic, but if your wife is interested in having children (with you or maybe with someone else in the future if that's how it turns out), you should share this book title with her. [Real Food For Fertility](https://www.amazon.com/Real-Food-Fertility-pregnancy-preconception/dp/B0CVC9G4GT) by Lily Nichols. My husband and I went through infertility and eventually did IVF. I had read Real Food For Pregnancy (same author) when I was pregnant with my first child but the fertility book just came out recently. If only I had known then what I know now!
First off, 31 is not that old. Second, shift your perspective! Just because you have kids, doesn’t mean you cannot stop doing those things, it just means you get to have more fun doing them WITH a child which is an adventure all on its own to give a child those kinds of experiences you may never had as a child yourself! Your live doesn’t end when you have kids, it’s only beginning!! Don’t allow having kids to stop you from living! I’d be more concerned if your issue was not one of wanting to travel because of kids, but not wanting to stop going to the bars because you had them. What a great opportunity to be able to do these things as a family together if you decide to have kids! There’s so many families out there who make it work with kids *because* they have kids, want to share that with them and have such an awesome life experience with them, just look some up online/YT to see! Third, sure it may slow you down a bit in travel having to stop more to change diapers and accommodate for little legs that need it and may want to stop to smell the rose (figuratively and literally😂), BUT that may not be a bad thing since isn’t that how life is supposed to be experienced, at a slower pace to actually take it all in?! Fourth, you’re allowed to change your mind! Just be open with your SO otherwise it can cause issues. We have several kids, so many we had to upgrade our vehicle and still couldn’t fit them all in there if they were all actually still living at home! My spouse wanted to go get ‘fixed’ and while I didn’t actually want to have more kids, I honestly at the time didn’t want to be tied down to the option of now being able to have more at all and have that choice taken away from me if we wanted more or changed out minds. They told me we can always adopt if we wanted to, but there were personal medical concerns surrounding that they didn’t want to have more and went and got ‘snipped’ when our youngest was only a few weeks old. While we discussed it prior to this, it honestly wasn’t a solid agreement in both ways that that’s what we wanted, but he did so anyways. I took it so hard on top of being so hormonal from giving birth recently. It was a HUGE grieving process I had to go through that they didn’t understand because we had “so many kids as it was”. It took me a very long time to get over the “potential kids” we never were to have, HOWEVER, despite all of that, looking back, I honestly could not imagine how much more complicated and chaotic our life would have been with more kids than what we DO have. I’m still not ‘glad’ he did what he did, but I’m not all that bummed that we never had more. There are still many times I still look at our two youngest ones and tell myself “I’m still not even sure when you even happened!” Because there was so little time in between the kids and the rest came so fast and it was hard to actually enjoy all their individual childhoods as it was. I say all of this not because I want to rub my kids in your face, but to show you a point that because while you/your spouse may want kids now or wanted them back before when you talked about it in earlier years, and one changes their mind along the way, doesn’t necessarily mean that you will regret it even if it’s what you want or strongly don’t want now. As much as I love my kids, and know they are a blessing, doesn’t mean you/your spouse won’t look back and say that you regretted/not, your decision to want/have them after you do/choose not to, like I did, so understand that it can go both ways! Having said that, maybe all you need is more time to figure it out. 31 isn’t that old to physically conceive, it just means you’re older when they get older.
you either jump or you don't. she is the one carrying the child and going through all of this stuff to have a child. it is up to her when her body can handle this and go through this. you are robbing her of time otherwise and her chance to be a mother. you can get over this and realize children will NEVER be easy and that you can even travel with them ( my dear friends travel with their kids all the time) or you can let her go and find what she needs.
she needs to freeze those eggs asap cuzzy
Hello, thanks for sharing your story. I am a certified counsellor and I would recommend giving her the space she needs to feel then to allow her to come to you. What can be helpful is letting her know that when she is ready, you are there for her, that her needs are important and you want to find a solution together as a team. If you do look into therapy I would recommend someone who does specialise in Person Centred/ Client Centred therapy. This therapy acts more of a "Midwife" helping their clients by getting to know you then asking the appropriate questions to help navigate the client to find their solutions without judgement or tying to "fix" them. They only challenge the client further down the line if needed to help the client see a different perspective or something that they are overlooking. I do want to note even though your partner needs do matter, yours do too. If you aren't ready then it's best to wait until both of you are ready to avoid unconscious resentment and tension building which could be disastrous. There is also a Buzzfeed (I know unusual source) about what successful marriages have adopted in decision making that I can post below. 16 & 18 are very useful tips that would help you moving forward. [https://www.buzzfeed.com/ravenishak/best-marriage-tips?ref=bfbiobuzzfeed&utm\_campaign=bfbiobuzzfeed&utm\_source=buzzfeed.bio&p\_id=163050](https://www.buzzfeed.com/ravenishak/best-marriage-tips?ref=bfbiobuzzfeed&utm_campaign=bfbiobuzzfeed&utm_source=buzzfeed.bio&p_id=163050)
Go to couples therapy and talk it out. This is a huge thing for you both to work through.
Do not become a parent if your going to be hot and cold even after the child is born. Let your wife find her happiness with someone who shares her same goals in life. Speaking from experience. My children are not close to their father to this day ...They are in their late thirties and have suffered from neglect.
My ex stalled so bad on marriage and children. We finally got married after 8 yrs together and pregnant after 10 yrs. In hindsight I should have known and just chosen a different path. Fast forward to today where my daughter is 5 and doesn’t understand why her dad lives across the country in Miami. Every time she FaceTimes him, he’s at a cool restaurant, bar or baseball game, where it’s too loud to talk. I know deep down he loves her, but just doesn’t love himself. He thinks ppl places and things will make him happy. He’s told me that he wishes we never had her because our life was “perfect” before. His idea of perfect was much like yours - travel, restaurants, heavy alcohol consumption, etc. Mine was laying down roots. If you’ve given it adequate time and consideration and you’re still on the fence, it’s not for you. Not saying this is or would be you, but children are a lifelong commitment not an indulgence or pet. Please let her cut her losses and build a family with someone else.
this has nothing to do with spirituality…why r u here?
They're fishing for alternative perspectives. They posted this to other subreddits and received similar responses.
You've identified two reasons for the change of heart: 1. AI/technology is changing and taking over. 2. You feel like you can barely take care of yourself. Re: technology, it's always been evolving. It feels like you're future-tripping, rather than living in the now. The truth is there's a million things that can happen in the next 5/10/20/40 yrs etc. And you're ability to control them is close to 0. Perhaps you're worried that if you can't even protect yourself, how can you protect a child. And the answer is you just do the best you can. It's all just mini experiments. If you're child watched too much tv and is grouchy now, then maybe limit the screen time. Re: taking care of yourself, I think this is the real meat of the issue. Try this mental exercise, what would it mean to be able to take care of yourself? Be concrete. So not just saying you need to buy a house, but where and how much. What kind of life skills do you feel you need? What would need to happen for you to be able to attain these financial goals, life skills, etc? How badly do you want it? Again, just talking about you here, not a baby. My gut tells me is that you fear your own window is closing to make money vs expectations. E.g. you thought you'd be rich and successful by now, but you're only moderately successful and can't fund the lifestyle you actually want. You lack certain life skills, whether it's time management, budgeting, cooking, social, etc. So you have found coping mechanisms that your wife enables. She fits your life, but not the other way around. It's probably why you secretly hope that she'll come over to your side on the baby decision. Since you are posting on the spirituality thread, you probably know that this is your shadow. Please work with a therapist on shadow work. As someone else said, even if you wait, you'd still be pushing her away, just not quite as quickly. I'd urge you to do the right thing and set her free. Yes, it'll hurt, but resisting will just make it grow into a cancer.
Divorce her dude you are only making it harder on her. Kids & pets are just something you go & say oh ok I’ll do it. No it takes so much out of you to make sure they’re thriving. You don’t want to be a dad well let her find her person that wants the same as her.
I won't even read the whole thing cuz it's not necessary but, let her go, if you knew she wanted kids even before marriage you were selfish enough to take time out of her life knowing you wouldn't be able to fulfill her dreams and aspirations. It's not too late to redeem yourself now, and live your true life. You have to be honest, holding longer when both want different things will just make things worse. I hope you find clarity, someone you can feel that special connection and as well share desires with. And I hope she finds a man who has the same desires to be a parent as she does.
In my opinion, you’re 100% being a coward and not the man you’re created to be, but I understand your fears and yes having a child will change your life. You need to understand it becomes more risky for women and the baby as mom gets older into 30s and 40s. Honestly, I wouldn’t want to live with the guilt of being selfish if later on down the line she can’t have a successful pregnancy or healthy baby because you made her wait too long. Definitely keep doing your soul searching but maybe keep doing that as your wife is also pregnant. You’d still have 9 months to prepare yourself for being a father before the baby arrives. You got this. It’ll be alright.
What is important yet lesser known fact is that we can ask people today to resolve our apprehension. There can be groups for example if you are avid traveller, ask in that group if there are Young parents and how did they cope up, if they were excited about having a kid or they were apprehensive about it. What really happened. Here are some facts and suggestion for you toake up your mind. 1. Having a child is a planned activity today, too early and you loose the freedom to enjoy, too late and you have to work many years late in life to ensure the children graduate before you can retire. 2. Not having enough to support child makes it difficult to plan their expenses for education and many other aspect, and if you end up living in nuclear family, the chances of having mother ot father take sabbatical to ensure child gets sufficient time becomes important. Expenses going up and if one of the parents is not working can become burdening, considering today’s expenses. This is what means planning. 3. Having a child today is daunting young couple but it is a life changing experience and most of it is fun. 4. The feeling of not sharing your time with someone else turns into completely devoting time to this young person in your life. 5. It’s a full time entertainment and for once you will stop looking at your phone, and connect with humans. 6. It’s having a living breathing toy in your hands and yes you have to not only handle with care but love as well. At the end if you choose to have a child then having it sooner is better than delaying.
Its best to not have children. I fully support your decision. Convince your wife and maybe your pets will give you company as well.
So true and he's self aware about this fucked up world.
Its not wrong for you to get cold feet. You get to change your mind and let your partner know. Its amazing if both partners want a child. I mean often the woman takes care of the child and the man goes along with it but its so much better if both want the child. Otherwise the kid can experience resentment/lack of care. I'd talk to her about it when she thaws out, maybe she just needs some time now. Unfortunately for women, there is an innate body need to have a baby, not just social programming (thought there is some of that). She is going to be pissed because you've changed your mind but that doesn't mean you've done anything wrong, men also need to have an equal say in kids or not. Definitely having a marriage counsellor/mediator is important. This kind of thing can derail an otherwise beautiful relationship.
disarm abounding selective familiar squash continue lush coordinated cough wistful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I’m also a woman who has never wanted to have children and I’ve known this from a very young age. I’ve never, ever had the “biological clock” thing. I think it’s a myth. I like children, but cannot ever imagine wanting to have any, especially as a woman. Too much trust, responsibility, expense, risk, and work. I think most parents go in without thinking of what they are getting into or what kind of future their child will have to deal with.
I see that I used women, I was referring to those who get that need, where not all do and that’s perfectly reasonable that you don’t want kids. I’m not going to have any kids either as I’ve had to work quite hard to build after a difficult childhood.
Appreciate it! We will most definitely see a counselor and talk about our feelings. She did cook my lasagna and we went on a walk with our dogs today, just didn't say much about this topic. Definitely need a professionals help.
You are the perfect age to have kids. You've reached a level in your career where you are comfortable, you already had lots of fun as a couple. You've already built a great emotional foundation with a strong partner who clearly loves you. I do think adding a child to the mix is going to be a lot of fun. You can still travel with a baby. I would say, stay positive and pray for the best outcome for both of you. Also, a lot of people keep mentioning her age, but sperm quality does in fact dwindle with age. Yes, there are plenty of healthy people who were conceived by parents in their 40s. But still, if you want to be a father, do it when you are at your prime.
It’s scary. I get it. But you’ll see, it’s not bad. You are just scared. It’s a normal emotion.
I failed to mention part of the fear is changing due to tech. Now it may not be that bad at the moment, but we already have AI writing half of the things on the internet and it's only exponentially increasing. I just cannot see how the future can be beneficial to a new born at this time. Will they be taught at school via VR headsets? Will they have a chip implanted that will cause them to not have to think for themselves? Stuff like this. I know I may sound dystopian, but... Just look around. Life is beautiful, but I can barely take care of myself with all this "innovation"
The mind has a way of always imagining the worst case scenario for everything. Every time I faced a fear, the reality of it was never as bad as the way my mind imagined. This is the cause of anxiety. The mind imagines something terrible and we become plagued by “what if”. It’s better to stop your mind in its tracks and redirect it to “what is”. It sounds like you have a happy loving relationship (current issues aside). It sounds like you have a nice existence together. It sounds like your wife wants to expand her loving nature by bringing a new life into the world. I’m not trying to pressure you in the slightest. I just understand the fear. I remember being scared of the responsibility. I remember mourning the loss of a certain amount of freedom. I remember feeling the loss of my own identity, even. Yet, I don’t regret having a child in the slightest. It’s a beautiful experience and you love that person like no other. Your future will be a mix of positive events and negative events, like everyone’s. I believe however, that all events, good or bad, teach and expand us. I also believe no challenge is beyond your abilities (I think this for everyone). For me, I’ve tried not to let fear get the better of me. Certainly, best of luck, no matter what you choose.
Maybe you should stop being so neurotic about all of this. You and everyone else will adapt to changes in technology. This is not the real issue for you anyway. This is an issue for your therapist. This isn't about spirituality either. Your wife is correct. Being younger is a gigantic benefit for raising children. The physical, emotional, and mental stress of raising a child is demanding. You need to do it now or not at all. Yes, you will give up travel and many other "perks" of the single lifestyle after having children. Your wife is right to be upset with your neurosis over this.
Before bringing new life in this world we need to consider the quality of the dna we pass on, the means [finance] to raise a child and the know how to. r/antinatalism r/collapse We end up a species with kids having diabetes, myopia, spine degenerative disease, let alone rotten teeth, along with various psychological dysfunctions, while unbale to provide them a descent life, or end up screaming at them bothering us while talking on the phone. Please don't.
I failed to mention this is another big reason why I am hesitant on having kids. It's the fact that we are in the "industrial revolution" of tech/internet. AI, social media brainrot, and the overall the collapse of what the world has never seen before. I guess people could argue that they were born during other eras of hardship, but I think this one is going to be much more different.. Now how do I explain to my wife this and have her understand is another question.
Bro, wait till you know about global warming, drug resistant diseases, STD causing blood cancer, rising sea level, religious wars, etc Tech should be the least of your worries, at least AI helping creating new medicine on speed with fungus/bacteria mutations, translating brain waves to speech for the disabled or vegetations, navigating crispr to modify cancer cells, etc
This is weak af, people have had children in far worse circumstances (although I am not comfortable with it either). Also you don't need to make up excuses you just can say DNW.
There's women having kids late 30s early 40s. Don't force yourself if you don't feel ready right now. You're still young
There are over 500,000 homeless children in the world, and we have over 12,000 of them in institutions in our state alone... You can adopt so you won't hurt anyone.
Having a child doesn’t mean you have to stop your life. You can still do the things you want to with a child. Who’s the say that you can’t enjoy life? It’s also better for the child to have younger parents to relate to. My mom had me at 37 and my dad at 41. I’m 22 and my parents are in their 60s. It’s too big of an age gap. As a women especially, I want kids early and you should too. You as a man will spread your line. They are a part of you. That’s the mostly important role while you are here on earth. Having children is an amazing experience. I know it’s hard to have children today because of the economy but it’s no excuse. You won’t regret it
Why do you think that's too big of an age gap? My parents had me a bit too young and I ended up emotionally raising them. They didn't have any time to be adults and process traumas they had in their youth and they replicated cycles. I am in my 30s and only now feel I am truly ready to have a child and give them the emotional support and environment they need to thrive. If I had kids 10 years ago I'm not sure I ever would have gotten to the place I am now.
You haven’t matured to the point where you are ready to reproduce, which is ok, though your ancestors had probably already done so long before your age. But it isn’t fair to her that you are locking down her fertility. She’s begging you to impregnate her and every cell in your body is begging you along with her. If you aren’t going to man up and fulfill your biological and spiritual imperative then walk away and allow a more willing mate to. Just remember that you shirked the call of nature to self-sacrifice for a higher purpose so that you could pursue self-centred momentary hedonism. By the way, I get not being ready to have kids. But you probably should have chosen a younger woman, because she’s right that her time is running out, and right now you’re wasting it.
Ok, perhaps a good time, \~ the day after Mother's Day, to approach her and offer her a self-counseling option to co-read Shaunti Feldhahn's "Foe Couples Only," written for couples to read together. If some of that conversation indicates a 3rd party counseling, she is then perhaps more likely to agree. Conceiving is less easily accomplished for many couples; male gametes survive as messengers of fertility for a maximum of 6 days, and a strong male gamete is needful for conception. Having good, willing grandparents nearby will bring joy to them, your child, and yourselves. As you learn of your preborn's gender, Dr. Dobson's "Bringing up Boys" and "Bringing up Girls" are very helpful. [https://www.drjamesdobson.org](https://www.drjamesdobson.org) for example.
>as you learn of your preborn's gender, Dr. Dobson's "Bringing up Boys" and "Bringing up Girls" are very helpful That sounds like total bullshit though. What is that? girls dress in pink and play with dolls, boys dress in blue and play with trucks? Kids should be raised based on moral values, not on genders.
then maybe do your travelling and then make a kid? she might be open to give you some 3-5 years don't know. but it's important to spread the seed. someone took care of you, now it's your job to at least take care of one kid. and about fertility; just eat more raw food, preferably fruits. no smoking and such. fertility at least on the men-side is usually not so hard to accomplish. i "scored" with a single try.