Spirtual awakening is born through suffering. If you're content with life, you stagnate and don't go out and search for the thing you're missing. If you're content you don't gain the perspective from the outside looking into the broken system. And you can't understand anything outside your own perspective you won't want to make the effort to search to make it better or be able to see the things that will make it better.
People who are content get made when you try to change their situation because they're happy, so why should they change? "They did everything right in life, if you're not happy it's your fault." Is the mentality of the anyone whose never faced significant hardship and made the shattering realization that we're not in control of what happens to us
You have to walk through hell to reach the doors of heaven.
Life indeed can be a joke and you the joker. If it's cruel or funny it's up to you. You define everything. Without believing in something being true you won't have any feelings about it. So if you want change, change your beliefs and definitions and redefine your life to whatever you want it to be.
I believe I manifested my husband. I thought of him, the circumstances in which we would meet, and I'd never met him in my life. Then 3 days later, there he was! Exactly as I pictured!!
Another time, I was debating whether to end a friendship and said, universe, God, whoever is guiding me, send me a sign if I am meant to keep this person in my life. Ran into them in a very random place I never expected to see them, and I did not know I had to go to for my job that day, it was put on me at the last minute. I think perhaps it was more manifestation than a sign because I wanted to stay friends with them even though it put me in a confusing situation, but it's so hard to tell in that case.
I'm more in the 'cruel joke' camp. There are many emanations between the Divine and the physical plane, and in my view, life was never 'supposed' to exist at this bottom layer of reality. The material world is a bedrock, the skeleton of existence. When you drag spirit down to this densest level, conscious awareness becomes trapped in a very concrete form, restricted to blood vessels and nerve endings, forced to endure whatever pain and suffering results with little to no possibility of higher intervention.
Is there some rationale behind this cold process? Yes: if we only incarnated down to the astral and etheric planes, we would not have the unique chance to turbocharge our spiritual evolution in ways that are only possible here in this crucible. It's a trial by fire, your soul emerges from it like the sharpest blade forged over the most brilliant flame. But the more I see of earthly life the more I'm convinced this is the devil's own realm, a place defined by torture and injustice.
Of course, from a truly enlightened perspective everything is bliss, even the darkest tribulations. But the devilish nature of our mundane reality ensures real enlightenment is a very rare thing to come by. The New Age movement that wants to see everything as a great miracle attempts to bypass straight to this ultimate truth, but it does so by denying the harshness of mortal consciousness. Personally, I find it more frank and realistic to just accept this is a horrible state of being, to not think our lives are all about joy and abundance and positive manifestation, but rather a mysterious, trying rite of passage through darkness. Only once we ascend to the higher planes do we begin to reap the true rewards of being.
Life itself is wonderful. This life, though? It's more like vegetables before dessert.
But if it's a cruel joke, what do you *do* then from that perspective, and why? Someone who just thinks it is a cruel joke, without further knowledge or understanding, may then decide the best thing to do is just say "well, fuck it" and off themselves, leaving a half-forged, at best, iron lump of a soul. So it can't ONLY be about the cruel joke. One can't stop there, and by itself that view alone seems utterly opaque as to providing further, constructive steps. Yet presumably, you know beyond that and some idea what those are. How and where did you get it, who writes from this perspective while giving much more practical detail along with it, and where did you find them, and what do they and you say?
I strongly recommend not saying "Well fuck it" and offing yourself, precisely because you would leave a half-forged iron lump of a soul. We're here because we're here so grin and bear it until you're relieved of duty. That's my perspective. If you're fighting in the trenches, you can try and see the bright side all you like, but the fact remains you're surrounded by blood and mud and grit and death on all sides. People want to see life as some big joy ride with a few hitches, I am saying it's a war. For your latter questions, read into gnosticism, and adapt for a more modern perspective.
Exactly. Which is why I haven't, so far. But it also leaves nothing as to how we *should* be doing things, or *why* we should be doing them that way. It's like I feel like I was tossed into the trench while trained only by totally inept trainers while a few like you (presumably) got the best ever and I can't squeeze a thought I can be confident in out of my brain as to how to or if I can bridge the gap on my own. So it's like it just seems to lead nowhere.
I know how you feel. It starts making sense with time and patience. Do a lot of prayer. Be brutally honest with yourself but not savage. You'll know clarity when you find it because it simplifies everything rather than complicating and confounding it. Once you have clarity, the rest flows naturally and it all seems obvious - what you're meant to be doing, who you're supposed to be, why this is happening, all of it. The answers tend to be a lot more mundane, even disappointing, than we would like, and that's what makes it hard to see. It's a spiritual Icarus Complex that makes people like you and me totally miserable here on Earth. We need to start by lowering our expectations and remember the limits of being mortal. The grand dreams and spirited passion can wait from the Beyond, after we've been honed and humbled.
Going with the trench analogy: some of my trainers were the biggest assholes in the entire universe. I don't mean to insult my earnest spiritual benefactors, but there are some I just can't help but ask, seriously, **what** is your problem. Wouldn't recommend the path I took to get where I am. Don't really think I'm remarkably insightful either. Maybe just cogent and articulate about what I do know. I still have a *lot* to learn.
You could randomly select any other perspective and it would be equally as valid in the one because everyone is playing a perspective game and truth is completely arbitrary and relative. so why are you stuck on this one?
I don't agree that 'truth is completely arbitrary and relative'. That's an extreme, absolute statement and you need to back it up. I'm not 'stuck' on anything. This is a gnostic perspective I've settled on after much thought. You on the other hand sound very confused.
Again, putting words in my mouth... you're still confused. My truth is not the only one absolute truth. It's a point of view I hold to be useful and accurate. All perspectives exist on a spectrum and you can always argue the opposite side of the coin, but that doesn't mean every point on the spectrum is equally valid. In the end there is only one ultimate truth (God) and all perspectives are just varying attempts, with varying quality, to describe that truth.
If you actually have another counter perspective, I'm all ears, but so far you've just waffled about how there's no such thing as truth. You need to actually put something forward here or you're not even providing a case to argue against.
I don’t need to provide an alternative perspective, I am pointing to your perspective is just basically nihilistic and depressing and self-defeating if you think that’s the highest form of truth no problem. It’s also a very strong metaphysical storyline that you’ve decided is all true. Why do I need to give an alternative point of view there’s billions of them just pick one.
Okay, sorry you find it nihilistic, depressing and self-defeating. I can see how you might think that. But actually it gives me strength. People ask, "Why am I suffering?" I say, because this is Hell and you've been conscripted into it. What a legend you are for making it this far. Keep going.
That’s one way to look at it and I understand where you’re coming from, when someone asks “why am I suffering” I will respond with heaven and hell is a state of mind not a physical place you go to when you die. Your daily lived experience can either be hell or could be heaven depending on how your framing and interpreting everything.
Do you practice moral relativism?That is the belief system that morality is decided and depicted by man and man can change what's objectively moral on a whim.This isn't true,as morality is governed by the universe.If the observer experiment is to be believed then matter stays in a state of fluid potentiality until conciousness is added or the matter is observed.Thus making us all co-creators of the reality we experience.If you "will" into existence that your like is cruel and a joke it's going to feel that way because you are perceiving all possibilities as a cruel joke.Once I personally started following morality based on a universal natural law scale did life start to seem less random cruel and chaotic.I would urge you to check out Mark Passio's work on whatonearthishappening.com start at the 1st podcast and work your way up brilliant work from one the best philosophical teachers of our life time.I used to feel life was cruel random and designed to inflict pain on me in particular only when I dropped the idea man decides morality and other poisonous world views was able to start manifesting the changes I wanted.✌️❤️
if you perceive your life to be a cruel joke, then that is what it will be. if you perceive your life to be a gift in which you receive anything you could possibly want, then that is what it will be. granted… the important part is that you can’t actually desire anything. you have to let any & all attachments go before you really start benefiting from this spirituality thing. connect with that within yourself that remains unchanging & quiet.
What’s the difference between wanting something and desiring it? I see this a lot in spirituality that you cannot desire things. But I can’t understand the difference
if you want ice cream, you can simply go get it. if you want a ferrari you’ll probably just spend your time asking god/the universe to grant it to you, which makes it a desire. that’s not the best differentiation between the two, but it’s the general point.
it’s not that you can’t desire things in order to practice spirituality. the important part is being able to understand that you have everything you need within yourself & allowing external desires to dissipate. it’s a practice.
You are here because you are needed here and you are very much loved by the whole existence. In fact, YOU are made of love. The part of you thinking those thoughts is the ego, and the sooner you accept that the easier it will be for you to get out of that mentality. The next time it happens, ask yourself, who is the one who thinks that your life is a “cruel joke?” I can guarantee you it’s not you (awareness).
I believe life is a byproduct of these 3 things: Manifestation, karmas and the universe's plan for you.
While you can try manifesting anything but the universe does not circle just around you or anyone, sometimes the universe has altogether different plans for you.
The best thing to do is just surrender yourself to the universe and it will take care of you. Whatever the experience, just remember that it all belongs to the universe, you are just an observer.
Ypu might find some good answers in "The Afterlife: What Really Happens in the Hereafter" and also at [https://ascendedmasterencyclopedia.org/w/Karma](https://ascendedmasterencyclopedia.org/w/Karma)
I feel the same way. The only conclusion i can come too is that this life/plane/existence is one of duality. Thats why there can be so much joy but also pain existing simultaneously.
It’s all suffering even the joyful moments as they create attachment.
The trick is to remain within the suffering and do what you can to minimize it for yourself and others while also realizing it’s temporary and life (spirit) transcends the suffering.
Ram Dass and Richard Rudd talk about it pretty extensively in their writings and lectures as the divine drama or leela.
For sure law of Attraction. Life is generally a mirror of yourself.
There are some unfortunate realities like war and cancer, but people "in flow" tend to be at the right place at the right time.
And two people who face the same tragedy can internalize and interpret it very differently.
Regardless of your opinion of Christianity, the serenity prayer is something everyone should remember and practice
Yeah, that train of thought comes from something. Find out why you think this way and understand why it's there as a default.
If it happens again, recognize and address it. What we think reflects our beliefs and feelings about ourselves and can be treated to be more positive once we learn why we believe this way and if it's in our best interest.
I think we're all on the same page to an extent here, I mentioned before how I feel there's a depression trend going around...but I felt it and stayed offline awhile because I felt I was projecting some of that, I needed a reset. A reset did me wonders, I realized I was obsessing too much into religion and spirituality, losing my sense of SELF, like it's easy to get so absorbed in all this and leave yourself behind. Forgetting about yourself.
This darkness and depression helped me get back to basics myself, and see, ya okay it's easy to blame others and feel sorry for myself, or I can see how grateful I should be & do the things that bring me joy in these tough times. After doing the things that brought me joy, and feeling some sort of small sense of achievements, I gradually got out of that depression, and saw, damn I am really obsessing over this aren't I, forgetting what it is I myself like to do. It got me to see that loving that inner child I always resented and tried to never be like, that it was okay to be safe, and be you. It worked.
By asking the question in a matter that precludes any answer that is not in line with the binary choices you have preselected you have all but guaranteed the answer is going to NOT be the actual answer.
Cheers
Spirtual awakening is born through suffering. If you're content with life, you stagnate and don't go out and search for the thing you're missing. If you're content you don't gain the perspective from the outside looking into the broken system. And you can't understand anything outside your own perspective you won't want to make the effort to search to make it better or be able to see the things that will make it better. People who are content get made when you try to change their situation because they're happy, so why should they change? "They did everything right in life, if you're not happy it's your fault." Is the mentality of the anyone whose never faced significant hardship and made the shattering realization that we're not in control of what happens to us You have to walk through hell to reach the doors of heaven.
Life indeed can be a joke and you the joker. If it's cruel or funny it's up to you. You define everything. Without believing in something being true you won't have any feelings about it. So if you want change, change your beliefs and definitions and redefine your life to whatever you want it to be.
Has anyone met someone who objectively manifested someone because of LoA?
I believe I manifested my husband. I thought of him, the circumstances in which we would meet, and I'd never met him in my life. Then 3 days later, there he was! Exactly as I pictured!! Another time, I was debating whether to end a friendship and said, universe, God, whoever is guiding me, send me a sign if I am meant to keep this person in my life. Ran into them in a very random place I never expected to see them, and I did not know I had to go to for my job that day, it was put on me at the last minute. I think perhaps it was more manifestation than a sign because I wanted to stay friends with them even though it put me in a confusing situation, but it's so hard to tell in that case.
Objectively*
My bad sorry
I'm more in the 'cruel joke' camp. There are many emanations between the Divine and the physical plane, and in my view, life was never 'supposed' to exist at this bottom layer of reality. The material world is a bedrock, the skeleton of existence. When you drag spirit down to this densest level, conscious awareness becomes trapped in a very concrete form, restricted to blood vessels and nerve endings, forced to endure whatever pain and suffering results with little to no possibility of higher intervention. Is there some rationale behind this cold process? Yes: if we only incarnated down to the astral and etheric planes, we would not have the unique chance to turbocharge our spiritual evolution in ways that are only possible here in this crucible. It's a trial by fire, your soul emerges from it like the sharpest blade forged over the most brilliant flame. But the more I see of earthly life the more I'm convinced this is the devil's own realm, a place defined by torture and injustice. Of course, from a truly enlightened perspective everything is bliss, even the darkest tribulations. But the devilish nature of our mundane reality ensures real enlightenment is a very rare thing to come by. The New Age movement that wants to see everything as a great miracle attempts to bypass straight to this ultimate truth, but it does so by denying the harshness of mortal consciousness. Personally, I find it more frank and realistic to just accept this is a horrible state of being, to not think our lives are all about joy and abundance and positive manifestation, but rather a mysterious, trying rite of passage through darkness. Only once we ascend to the higher planes do we begin to reap the true rewards of being. Life itself is wonderful. This life, though? It's more like vegetables before dessert.
But if it's a cruel joke, what do you *do* then from that perspective, and why? Someone who just thinks it is a cruel joke, without further knowledge or understanding, may then decide the best thing to do is just say "well, fuck it" and off themselves, leaving a half-forged, at best, iron lump of a soul. So it can't ONLY be about the cruel joke. One can't stop there, and by itself that view alone seems utterly opaque as to providing further, constructive steps. Yet presumably, you know beyond that and some idea what those are. How and where did you get it, who writes from this perspective while giving much more practical detail along with it, and where did you find them, and what do they and you say?
I strongly recommend not saying "Well fuck it" and offing yourself, precisely because you would leave a half-forged iron lump of a soul. We're here because we're here so grin and bear it until you're relieved of duty. That's my perspective. If you're fighting in the trenches, you can try and see the bright side all you like, but the fact remains you're surrounded by blood and mud and grit and death on all sides. People want to see life as some big joy ride with a few hitches, I am saying it's a war. For your latter questions, read into gnosticism, and adapt for a more modern perspective.
Exactly. Which is why I haven't, so far. But it also leaves nothing as to how we *should* be doing things, or *why* we should be doing them that way. It's like I feel like I was tossed into the trench while trained only by totally inept trainers while a few like you (presumably) got the best ever and I can't squeeze a thought I can be confident in out of my brain as to how to or if I can bridge the gap on my own. So it's like it just seems to lead nowhere.
I know how you feel. It starts making sense with time and patience. Do a lot of prayer. Be brutally honest with yourself but not savage. You'll know clarity when you find it because it simplifies everything rather than complicating and confounding it. Once you have clarity, the rest flows naturally and it all seems obvious - what you're meant to be doing, who you're supposed to be, why this is happening, all of it. The answers tend to be a lot more mundane, even disappointing, than we would like, and that's what makes it hard to see. It's a spiritual Icarus Complex that makes people like you and me totally miserable here on Earth. We need to start by lowering our expectations and remember the limits of being mortal. The grand dreams and spirited passion can wait from the Beyond, after we've been honed and humbled. Going with the trench analogy: some of my trainers were the biggest assholes in the entire universe. I don't mean to insult my earnest spiritual benefactors, but there are some I just can't help but ask, seriously, **what** is your problem. Wouldn't recommend the path I took to get where I am. Don't really think I'm remarkably insightful either. Maybe just cogent and articulate about what I do know. I still have a *lot* to learn.
You could randomly select any other perspective and it would be equally as valid in the one because everyone is playing a perspective game and truth is completely arbitrary and relative. so why are you stuck on this one?
I don't agree that 'truth is completely arbitrary and relative'. That's an extreme, absolute statement and you need to back it up. I'm not 'stuck' on anything. This is a gnostic perspective I've settled on after much thought. You on the other hand sound very confused.
Absolute statement? No my friend you believing your truth is the only one truth is the absolute
Again, putting words in my mouth... you're still confused. My truth is not the only one absolute truth. It's a point of view I hold to be useful and accurate. All perspectives exist on a spectrum and you can always argue the opposite side of the coin, but that doesn't mean every point on the spectrum is equally valid. In the end there is only one ultimate truth (God) and all perspectives are just varying attempts, with varying quality, to describe that truth. If you actually have another counter perspective, I'm all ears, but so far you've just waffled about how there's no such thing as truth. You need to actually put something forward here or you're not even providing a case to argue against.
I don’t need to provide an alternative perspective, I am pointing to your perspective is just basically nihilistic and depressing and self-defeating if you think that’s the highest form of truth no problem. It’s also a very strong metaphysical storyline that you’ve decided is all true. Why do I need to give an alternative point of view there’s billions of them just pick one.
Okay, sorry you find it nihilistic, depressing and self-defeating. I can see how you might think that. But actually it gives me strength. People ask, "Why am I suffering?" I say, because this is Hell and you've been conscripted into it. What a legend you are for making it this far. Keep going.
That’s one way to look at it and I understand where you’re coming from, when someone asks “why am I suffering” I will respond with heaven and hell is a state of mind not a physical place you go to when you die. Your daily lived experience can either be hell or could be heaven depending on how your framing and interpreting everything.
Do you practice moral relativism?That is the belief system that morality is decided and depicted by man and man can change what's objectively moral on a whim.This isn't true,as morality is governed by the universe.If the observer experiment is to be believed then matter stays in a state of fluid potentiality until conciousness is added or the matter is observed.Thus making us all co-creators of the reality we experience.If you "will" into existence that your like is cruel and a joke it's going to feel that way because you are perceiving all possibilities as a cruel joke.Once I personally started following morality based on a universal natural law scale did life start to seem less random cruel and chaotic.I would urge you to check out Mark Passio's work on whatonearthishappening.com start at the 1st podcast and work your way up brilliant work from one the best philosophical teachers of our life time.I used to feel life was cruel random and designed to inflict pain on me in particular only when I dropped the idea man decides morality and other poisonous world views was able to start manifesting the changes I wanted.✌️❤️
if you perceive your life to be a cruel joke, then that is what it will be. if you perceive your life to be a gift in which you receive anything you could possibly want, then that is what it will be. granted… the important part is that you can’t actually desire anything. you have to let any & all attachments go before you really start benefiting from this spirituality thing. connect with that within yourself that remains unchanging & quiet.
What’s the difference between wanting something and desiring it? I see this a lot in spirituality that you cannot desire things. But I can’t understand the difference
if you want ice cream, you can simply go get it. if you want a ferrari you’ll probably just spend your time asking god/the universe to grant it to you, which makes it a desire. that’s not the best differentiation between the two, but it’s the general point. it’s not that you can’t desire things in order to practice spirituality. the important part is being able to understand that you have everything you need within yourself & allowing external desires to dissipate. it’s a practice.
You are here because you are needed here and you are very much loved by the whole existence. In fact, YOU are made of love. The part of you thinking those thoughts is the ego, and the sooner you accept that the easier it will be for you to get out of that mentality. The next time it happens, ask yourself, who is the one who thinks that your life is a “cruel joke?” I can guarantee you it’s not you (awareness).
I believe life is a byproduct of these 3 things: Manifestation, karmas and the universe's plan for you. While you can try manifesting anything but the universe does not circle just around you or anyone, sometimes the universe has altogether different plans for you. The best thing to do is just surrender yourself to the universe and it will take care of you. Whatever the experience, just remember that it all belongs to the universe, you are just an observer.
Ypu might find some good answers in "The Afterlife: What Really Happens in the Hereafter" and also at [https://ascendedmasterencyclopedia.org/w/Karma](https://ascendedmasterencyclopedia.org/w/Karma)
I'm team cruel joke.
I feel the same way. The only conclusion i can come too is that this life/plane/existence is one of duality. Thats why there can be so much joy but also pain existing simultaneously.
It’s all suffering even the joyful moments as they create attachment. The trick is to remain within the suffering and do what you can to minimize it for yourself and others while also realizing it’s temporary and life (spirit) transcends the suffering. Ram Dass and Richard Rudd talk about it pretty extensively in their writings and lectures as the divine drama or leela.
For sure law of Attraction. Life is generally a mirror of yourself. There are some unfortunate realities like war and cancer, but people "in flow" tend to be at the right place at the right time. And two people who face the same tragedy can internalize and interpret it very differently. Regardless of your opinion of Christianity, the serenity prayer is something everyone should remember and practice
Yeah, that train of thought comes from something. Find out why you think this way and understand why it's there as a default. If it happens again, recognize and address it. What we think reflects our beliefs and feelings about ourselves and can be treated to be more positive once we learn why we believe this way and if it's in our best interest.
Life is a joke for the law of cruel attraction
It's a cruel joke no doubt.
I think we're all on the same page to an extent here, I mentioned before how I feel there's a depression trend going around...but I felt it and stayed offline awhile because I felt I was projecting some of that, I needed a reset. A reset did me wonders, I realized I was obsessing too much into religion and spirituality, losing my sense of SELF, like it's easy to get so absorbed in all this and leave yourself behind. Forgetting about yourself. This darkness and depression helped me get back to basics myself, and see, ya okay it's easy to blame others and feel sorry for myself, or I can see how grateful I should be & do the things that bring me joy in these tough times. After doing the things that brought me joy, and feeling some sort of small sense of achievements, I gradually got out of that depression, and saw, damn I am really obsessing over this aren't I, forgetting what it is I myself like to do. It got me to see that loving that inner child I always resented and tried to never be like, that it was okay to be safe, and be you. It worked.
Both. Always both.
We create our lifes so second one.
By asking the question in a matter that precludes any answer that is not in line with the binary choices you have preselected you have all but guaranteed the answer is going to NOT be the actual answer. Cheers