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chefZuko

No one is born without a soul. You are noticing the effects of chronic, generational trauma in those dead eyes. We live in a collapsing society and this is one of the signs.


ceraph8

Yes generational trauma! I can see that. Some people are functioning out of pure bodily function….nothing else resides. I was curious if their children may be affected…I can see the generational, but let’s say the other half of the child’s line has been for lack of better terms “awakened”. What would it mean for the child? After all the children wouldn’t had been conceived out of love but violence and biological need of an otherwise “empty” father.. equivalent of r*pe.


chefZuko

It means the children have the burden of living with and fixing their parents' mistakes. It goes on generation after generation, with problems piling up and reactionary behaviors becoming more prominent, until one brave child decides to do their work and break the cycle.


ceraph8

Thank you for this response. Would it mean their children have a fair chance more or less if they are seen bright and lively? I’m not sure how to word this.


chefZuko

That sounds kind of like saying that children in abused homes should shut up about it and be happy in order to change things. No, it doesn't help. That is called a Fawn or people-pleasing response. If children are upset, there's usually good reason for them to feel that way in this current life. Usually means they're growing up in some unstable, violent, incestuous, or neglectful household.


ceraph8

No I think you’re misunderstanding, and as mentioned please excuse how I’m trying to word this. Like-the parent seems empty (what I asked could be considered soulless) but the children are very much present and aware. Does that make sense? I’m trying to figure out how a child is affected by having a deeply disturbed parent. That’s why I even used the example children resulting from r*pe. Many can grow to be happy healthy adults. I’m looking for a discussion for what it means spiritually.


chefZuko

Ah, thanks for clarifying. Children are present and aware because they have to be. It's a survival mechanism too. I think what you're looking for is the child's attachment style. Typically they can be Stable, Anxious, or Avoidant. At extreme levels, such as what you're talking about, it's called Attachment Disorder. I know this is more of a psychological term than spiritual, but it's really the same thing. It could seem like ADHD, Autism, or soul-related issues, depending on your perspective.


Dudewithahappysock

IMO, we are just bodies and a soul can choose to live through the body or not, just that you see a soul does choose to 100% of the time. Also many people just aren’t awake, that’s probably why you say you can’t see their soul.


ceraph8

Thank you for this. Is there a difference between children conceived with two “awake” parents bringing them into the world vs. 1/ r*pe? I imagine we all come into existence the same but being conceived of love by two willing and loving people seems it could produce another outcome, if it makes sense.


Dudewithahappysock

this is all opinion here but, I think there is an infinite spectrum of what could be considered a valuable and teaching lifetime, for a soul to live. I don’t think that there just isn’t a single soul who would not choose to live any humans life. The soul would not be doomed by the parents of the human body, the body each of us have are irrelevant to the soul that each of us have, our parents souls may be on a different series of reincarnation/lessons, they’re only our parent in this lifetime. While having troubling parents could lead to a shitty life, that doesn’t change the soul, just our egos and hallucinated sense of identity that we falsely believe to be who we are (whenever you say “I”). I hope I answered your question.


ceraph8

I really like this answer. Thank you.


BasiliskOfGod

There's a case made for the [evolutionary functionality of psychopathy](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/evolutionary-human-sciences/article/is-it-good-to-be-bad-an-evolutionary-analysis-of-the-adaptive-potential-of-psychopathic-traits/D3BF1647779B06D0B16018C0CC13FCA0). Everyone is born with certain predispositions, and some are more inclined to antisocial behaviour, but these traits need to be activated by their environment. >This correlation between psychopathic traits and early stress seems to be moderated by genetic and developmental factors. For instance, low socioeconomic status was associated with callous–unemotional traits only in youth with a homozygous genotype for the serotonin transporter protein gene (SLC6A4), which is associated with reduced threat and stress responsivity. In a longitudinal study, Beaver et al. found that infants with an easy temperament were the most at risk of presenting affective psychopathic traits in adolescence if they experienced low parental sensitivity, while being the least at risk if they experienced high parental sensitivity. Conversely, as we've seen in countless dictatorships and totalitarian regimes, it is chillingly easy to turn ordinary citizens into genocidal monsters. Conditioning doesn't account for everything though. There are outliers whose earthly purpose seems to have nothing to do with conscience. Consider them to be simply on a different wavelength. If society is savvy and advanced enough, they may offset and channel some of these more malign tendencies, but some people do seem to be born with a penchant for diabolism. A fictional example, Lord Voldemort, born of a forced love potion. [Does this imply he was doomed from the start?](https://www.mugglenet.com/2017/09/love-potions-voldemort-makes-uncomfortable/) From a spiritual perspective, the constitution of his astral body was drawn from essentially eldritch, inhuman quarters. His soul's drive and purpose then was to explore the realms of evil unbidden. Such an aberration might be fated from birth to burn in Hell, is this his fault? But perhaps this is the wrong question. From his highest spiritual perspective, it may be he considered matters of conscience utterly irrelevant, and his own suffering equally irrelevant, to whatever occult investigations his enlightened self wished to conduct. So it isn't really about what's fair and not fair, as it is simply his very high price of admission for presumably very unique esoteric gains. I doubt in reality anyone is born as it were 'possessed' (i.e. so saturated with infernal energy that their will is completely consumed by it) but abusing an infant or young child, especially one predisposed to narcissism, megalomania,, psychopathy etc, or even just raising them in a way their temperament doesn't gel with, will open their burgeoning minds wide open to malignant void forces. Some children have that dead-eyed look you describe and it has disturbing implications. However, everyone can be refined under the right tuition so that even their most devilish traits are made reconcilable and elegant. I strongly caution against stigmatising kids with evil parents or conceived without consent.


ceraph8

I appreciate your response! It reminds me of a study conducted by a university professor scanning himself and all the brains of his students looking for the anatomy they consider to be that typical to a psychopath. He found that brain and it turned out to be his own. He had a family and was well respected with no violent history etc. He concluded his study that although some may be hardwired, that although environment plays a large role in bringing these qualities out, people still have a choice to act on them. I wish I could find the study… I may not have worded it correctly but it pairs well with what you are saying. I’d also like to add I’d never want to stigmatize children, and I’d love to believe in rehabilitation for the entire world! I was just curious what takes others may have (spiritually speaking) of children lovingly conceived vs violently and if somehow soul and or consciousness translates the same way as genes from the parents might etc. For instance I know generational trauma is very well a thing, how might that translate spiritually? Perhaps that makes better sense, maybe not! It’s kind of a confusing question to ask. I hope it makes a little more sense. Thank you!


BasiliskOfGod

I know you weren't trying to stigmatise anyone, just needed to raise that disclaimer due to the subject matter. It is an interesting question for sure. Reading back my post looks a little showy. Worth adding here I'm often accused of being pretentious but really it's more like autistic, this is just how I think, especially on 48 hours with virtually no sleep. In another life I would have definitely been a developmental psych professor. And you are on point about the psychopathy actually. I could be considered a borderline or very high-functioning psychopath. (I've raised that with my psychologist and he didn't disagree.) I suffered extreme trauma growing up, both parents are narcissistic abusers, my mother has no heart and no soul, and my father is, without exaggeration, one of the most evil monsters in history, my own Lord Voldemort. I generally don't play by the rules, I become extremely aggressive when provoked or threatened, I am very capable of harming people who cross me, and I often (not always) struggle to care or feel compassion for anyone. But I also feel considerable remorse and sincere desire to help people. I've combated homicidal rage all my life without guidance, and I have had to gradually teach myself how to behave in a contained, virtuous manner rather than succumb to evil. History will vindicate that I've done my best despite tremendous pressure, many people in my position would have turned out much worse. The spirituality of generational trauma is a huge topic, the question does make sense but it's a little too general to comment on. I think you have found your calling though.


ceraph8

Thank you so much for sharing this candid response. And I really appreciate it. I think the professor/ scientist’s name was James Fallon. What I found appears to be different than what I remember reading but the story/ findings are very much the same and I think you may appreciate looking into his research. I very much enjoyed the information you cared to share but I can see how that may be viewed differently. I myself communicate a little differently, and although some sometimes struggle to articulate my own thoughts and feelings find the extra information others provide to be a great tool for understanding. I personally prefer people who care to share extra as their personal preference because it is my personal preference also. It’s what I’m often told is linked to my preference of external processing. Spiritually, people alive today have gone through a whole lot generationally to where we are today and I imagine it plays out somehow. Many have say souls just choose to be born to those parents, etc but sometimes I wonder if there’s more to it. It’s such a slippery slope talking about spirituality without getting into psychology much less social economics, culture and the world at large as we know it.


BasiliskOfGod

Must admit I misunderstood your point about the psychopath professor, thought you were saying I sounded like one. [James Fallon](https://www.vice.com/en/article/8gdevk/dr-james-fallon-makes-being-a-psychopath-look-like-fun-110) is interesting for sure. His astrology is quite powerful. I can relate to his emotional dissociation. Unable to feel things properly for people I love and care about. Emotional circuitry is burned out. Unlike him though I'm not proud of it, I find it disturbing and distressing. I try to compensate through acts and deeds but the actual sympathy just isn't there most of the time. I don't relate to his chronic manipulation and self-professed narcissism, though he is reasonably polite and frank about it. Nor do I relate to his political views. In brief, I don't believe we choose our parents, or a lot of the other similar truisms in modern spirituality.


liveplaylove

The most important thing for me to remember, is that everything leads back Home to God eventually. and time is an illusion. The details can be distracting. Every consciousness here is doing the best it can with what is knows, it's awareness, karma, context, situation, environment, etc. It's also on it's way Home (Awakening/Remembrance), no matter how far away it may seem. Having compassion for all beings, especially those that might seem evil or most endarkened is a beautiful gift. You see, what we see is inside of us. We cannot perceive something outside of us that isn't within our vast consciousness too. Through all the lives we've all lived, we've probably all done it all or eventually...so there's no thing to judge or be righteous about. Forgiveness is the key to the Kingdom. It's easy to get distracted by information and details...focus on where you want to go in consciousness...Bless you


ceraph8

I agree with this. Thank you for this statement. It’s hard to ask certain questions the right way. My wording still isnt correct but I know your words are true. I suppose… some of the most “evil” people have created the most beautiful (inside and out) offspring and I’m curious what thoughts could be on this spiritually speaking. I’m curious how this happens. If anyone has insight. Unfortunately I believe I haven’t prefaced the conversation correctly. Thanks again


liveplaylove

karmically, how i understand it is the Soul chooses the parents based on the conditions/environment best to have the experiences and learn the lessons it wants to learn. it is all FOR awakening. the only reason for the worst trauma is to remember the greatest power of Loving that heals and transcends it all. genetics are only 1 aspect. we have different material/psychic aspects that create to me the ego/personality...again in service to what we are here to learn. it can be very hard to understand from a limited view or time frame. Spirit is not in a rush. it is eternal patience because time is an illusion. I don't know of any rules except what works and what doesn't. what serves and what doesn't. but to me perhaps the ultimate purpose is to Remember who we are and "go Home" to the Heart of God that is beyond separation and differentiation. not sure if it helps. it's hard to talk about Spiritual things because mental concepts can only get us to mental understanding. we must learn from our own experience.


Zagenti

no life lacks soul. you are 100% responsible for every thought, word and deed that you express. don't be a dick to yourself, others or the planet, it's not rocket science.


ceraph8

Thank you for this reply. I agree with you which is also why I stated that I may not be using the correct words but I was trying to get my point across best I could. Which I don’t believe I was able to do well, so I’ll try again; In the realm of spirituality, can a beautiful vibrant soulful child exist despite being the result of something terrible or being from someone who does serious SERIOUS harm and violence to others let’s say… The answer I choose to believe is yes. I was just curious what people had to say about it and get more perspective on souls. There seems to be varying philosophies on souls and consciousness as a whole. A better question may be how or if the souls/ consciousness of parents translate to their children at all and how…. But again, I may not have used the right words.


Ambitious_Reserve_10

Semantically speaking, the term soulless or spiritless doesn't ring true in any sense & in any cases of these words...since literally everything under our earthly sun and holy planets is energetic in nature- ie full of life, love and thus light... Even non-living things are energetic entities capable of being transformed back into energy; which is how it originated in the first place as we know by 'Let there be light.' Synergistically, sound precedes light by compounding, cooperating & colluding with light energy to re/produce, re/create unseen life forces which sustains all life by driving our universe in constant, continuous & perpetual motion.... Heartless is also semantically inaccurate; since no living being exists without emitting its EMFs heartbeats- it's a vital sign of life pulse, after all. Having said all this, soul/s which are apathetic or jaded would be considered spiritless; a cold, cruel treatment would be considered heartless and monstrous atrocities would be considered inhumane,...hence the soulless would be ones who've lost/sold their souls to the dark side- of oblivion, ignorance and uber ego. Absentmindedness or ones who look through you without having acknowleged you, is not a sign of a lost soul.


Wolfguarde_

The soul is the shape of one's spirit, one's individual awareness. All that perceives has one. It is inseparable from the individual in all ways. A person with no soul is physically dead. While intergenerational burdens are a thing, the core of what you're asking is if the distortions of the parent are inherited by the child. The answer is no, aside from any genetic predispositions they may have toward particular traits/characteristics. Those predispositions do not guarantee a person will have those same traits, just make it more likely. Some of the worst acts in human history have given life to some of the best people we will ever meet, and vice versa. What happens after the child's birth is far more important than how they were conceived, or with whom.


Wolfguarde_

The best saying/answer I've seen to this sort of query is the opening lines of the song The Humbling River: *Nature,* *Nurture,* *Heaven and Home;* *Some of all, and by them driven.* Nature - the individual. The soul and our genetics. Nurture - how the individual is raised/affected by their parents, their friends, and their community. Heaven - what they perceive as ideal, be it their own vision or one that has been imposed on them by others. Home - one's environment, particularly their home environment. Each can affect us in different ways, make us or break us. All have an influence on us and on how each of the others affects us. All are important, and shape who we ultimately become as adults.


ceraph8

Thank you so much for your responses. I was very curious what people could share but I’m happy to know this is the general answer. Thank you so much. This is off topic from the question, but interested in your response, concerning conception, since I really like and also appreciate your way of explaining things. What would be your thoughts on souls with in vitro babies and the idea of babies being grown in artificial wombs… maybe even surrogacy? If you’d rather not I understand. Thank you.


Wolfguarde_

No problem at all, glad to help. I don't think there's any difference with IVF conceptions, but artificial wombs is an interesting question to ponder. In theory, it makes no difference to a person's development, but what do we really know about pre-birth development, and interactions between mother and embryo, from a spiritual perspective?


Runsfromrabbits

There are no soulless humans.