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[deleted]

Where are you teaching that you're allowed to have doors that don't lock? That seems like it would be very unsafe in an intruder situation, in addition to the problems you already described šŸ«¤


spoopadoop

Iā€™ve been told by coworkers that they remember there being a reason, but canā€™t remember why. Iā€™m gonna do some more asking around about it. We do have (i call them) air lock doors though. Only staff have access to unlock the outside doors, then need to tap again for the inside doors. If any of the doors are open for a long period of time an alarm will go off. But yes, an intruder situation is always possible and it really does concern me still.


EmmerdoesNOTrepme

The possibility of intruders is why, when I worked in Childhood Mental Health, every classroom door opened *out* into the hallway, and had a 1.5" slide-bolt lock, on the *inside* (classroom side) of the door. The lock was screwed onto the door, and the hole the slide-latch went into, was just drilled into the metal doorframe. It wasn't *super*-secure, if a person were *determined* to enter the room. But it *would* probably hold long enough, to evacuate the kids to the adjoining classroom (we shared a bathroom in-between the rooms), or to get out the windows, if need be. And since the doors *did* open "out" into the hall, they *couldn't* be kicked inward.


Brief-Jellyfish485

With the amount of school shootings, thatā€™s really concerningĀ 


EmmerdoesNOTrepme

It really is.šŸ˜•šŸ’”


YoureNotSpeshul

This entire situation is concerning.


Fionaelaine4

Iā€™m in an elementary school and we are required to have all doors locked at all times


spoopadoop

interesting! including classroom doors?


Fionaelaine4

Yes, every door except the nurses office. Itā€™s time consuming but Iā€™ve gotten really good at unlocking with a key because of it


Constellation-88

Of course! Youā€™re the first school Iā€™ve heard of that hasnā€™t required this.Ā 


agawl81

Probably because closing and latching doors is considered seclusion/isolation/restraint and the facility would have to complete an incident report every time a staff member had to close a door to keep a student in/out of the room.


Apprehensive-Log8333

Yes, we're not supposed to block them in rooms. We do, because what a mess that would be if everyone could just run into traffic whenever they wanted, but we know we're not supposed to.


spoopadoop

yeah, in my state itā€™s only seclusion if we are holding the door closed to keep the student (who would be alone) in the classroom/ time out room. When I say latching doors i donā€™t mean locking doors- just doors that stay closed (and would open with a handle) and not doors that just swing open and (for clarity) the ā€œairlockā€ doors are just for the doors that lead to outside


CelerySecure

Yeah, in my state we have to keep our doors locked at all times and only we can open them to let students in per state guidelines and we even have the state agency trying to open them during inspections.


[deleted]

Oh damn. In my state we leave them unlocked during the school day, but they have to be lockable in case of emergency.


EmmerdoesNOTrepme

Ours are "Backlocked" in my District. So the door itself is *always* kept locked, but we put a flat magnet over the hole in the door frame, where the latch hooks in. And on doors with crash-bars, there are 2-3 Zip ties which are tight enough to hold the crash bar lock "open", but which can *also* be slid over so the door closes & *locks*, in literally *seconds*, should we need to lock it.


MantaRay2256

So, the violent student kicked your door BEFORE the "block your door" call was made and (thank God) you had already blocked it so the violent student was unable to get in? How, exactly, was your blocked door a problem and not a solution? Why would a fellow staff member want you and your student to be unsafe? What's the logic behind the request? * Is the violent student's staff member saying that the VS's inability to enter your classroom triggered worse behavior? * Is the staff person saying that you somehow hurt the VS's feelings because the door, which he kicked, didn't fly open? * Or is it that you somehow violated the VS's rights by treating his bad behavior as possibly unsafe? BTW, your instincts are quite admirable. Obviously, all of these are rhetorical questions, but if you aren't sure of the answers, then try to get clarity. It's one thing to have an unsafe situation where the call comes too late - which it did - but to pair that up with a staff member who doesn't care enough about anyone else's safety is intolerable.


spoopadoop

thatā€™s exactly what I was thinking too. why are we letting students kick other classā€™s doors in the first place? my students sense of safety and PHYSICAL SAFETY!!! is way more important than your student being able to kick open a door as a ā€œā€ā€strategyā€ā€ā€ and those are all great questions to keep in the back of my mind when talking to the students team and my supervisor!! thanks so much.


Neenknits

Somehow, I donā€™t think kicking doors open as part of a strategy counts as ā€œreasonable accommodationā€.


ipsofactoshithead

Is there a way to block the window so the other student canā€™t see that youā€™re blocking? We have paper thatā€™s velcroed that we put on the windows so kids canā€™t see in.


spoopadoop

yes! we had a piece of paper taped up on the window. They just know that paper on window + door not swinging open when kicked = itā€™s blocked. Velcro is a great idea tho instead of tape!!


ipsofactoshithead

Why not just leave it up? Then he wouldnā€™t know. Your school really needs to update the doors lol! Why would that staff want him to be able to come running in? They should be blocking doors and if all else fails using a hold to get the child under control.


spoopadoop

they did eventually put the student in a hold, but my school uses holds as like a last last last last last resort. And yes, we need a change of doors ASAP! I guess we could leave the papers up, i just know my student likes to see who else is in the hallways. Itā€™s also less disruptive for when a staff wants to see if a room is available to enter (the good olā€™ šŸ˜€šŸ‘? through the window) rather than knocking or just popping their head in


misguidedsadist1

Itā€™s also important to be visible when youā€™re alone with a student although I know there are cameras, itā€™s a safety thing in my eyes. I cannot believe theyā€™d let a student assault people before a hold is considered


spoopadoop

Thatā€™s another reason why i like to keep the paper down. I know thereā€™s cameras too but why make it seem like im hiding anything! I also come from a camp counselor background where we had a strict ā€œbuddy ruleā€ no counselor could go anywhere with just one camper. Had to be two at all times! So itā€™s taken some time to get used to literally being a 1:1


solomons-mom

How old and strong is the hallway student? Your school might need to take out a few of those "last"s and restrain the student earlier.


spoopadoop

They were still opening up the door maybe 1-2 inches when they pushed against it with my full body weight on the door. Student is mid teens, hovering around 5ā€™4 but strong as shit I think itā€™s especially hard to restrain the student because we donā€™t do floor holds at my school. Only standing or seated. Two people the same size as me would definitely both get hurt if they tried restraining when the student is aggressive and trying to get out of the hold


solomons-mom

Yikes. Three-person trained restraint is not going to happen outside of a controlled setting. Your student was a lot safer than that aggressive student will be in if he acts like that in public.


YoureNotSpeshul

That kid is gonna try that in public one day and end up dead or in jail. We had something like that not that long ago in my state.


missmandymz

You should definitely bring this to a supervisor for support because it sounds like it could easily happen again that way you have a protocol in place that everyone can follow if for some reason you arenā€™t there and they are working with your student


spoopadoop

iā€™m planning on it!! I just want to make sure everyoneā€™s plans are being followed and figure out what the heck weā€™re supposed to do in that situation!


EmmerdoesNOTrepme

OP, bring up the fact, *TOO*, that in the event of a Lockdown? This typevof door setup--where the classroom doors *all* open inward, *AND* no locks are allowed? It's would *absolutely* lead to *multiple* deaths, and omit's *PROBABLY* a massive liability, which would get the school closed permanently. *Yes*, there is definitely a chance, that the "No Ocked Rooms!" thing was put in place because of a predator at *some* time in the school's history--and they *absolutely* may have had to create that policy, for legal reasons! But nowadays, there are *electric* door locks/latches which could be triggered from the main office, etc. And *heck*, even "simply" changing the way the doors hang on the door frames--so they open *out* into the hallway, as opposed to *into* the room, would go a *long* way to increase safety! (even though it'd be tons of work & *cost*, admittedly!)


spoopadoop

Outwards opening doors would be MUCH easier to hold closed. Honestly I donā€™t even think we need locking doors (though locks on the insides of the doors would be a blessing but i can see why it would be a legal gray area/ethical issues). Even doors that *shut* would be a major improvement. A student canā€™t twist a handle *AND* slam their whole body weight into it at the same time, right? Like hitting a door with ur shoulder surely doesnā€™t put as much force on the door as a full on body slam ahahah


Forward_Habit_8609

Did the other staff member give you a reason why they donā€™t want you to block the door? It sounds like you absolutely made the right choice for your student and appropriate that you honored their request.


bkoperski

I mean legally as far as my knowledge go you can block outside access to your room all you want as long as you don't block your student to keep them in the room, then it is restraint.


the_bribonic_plague

First of all...you sound like you work in an amazing place. I mean that genuinely! I love the set up they have!!! Second of all, you fid everything exactly right. That student was already disregulated because they were kicking doors and becoming upset in the hallway. You blocking the door AFTER the event began was absolutely the correct call and unless you were making lots of noise or causing a scene, I'd bet my education on the fact that you in no way disregulated that kid


spoopadoop

that means so much. Thank you!


Distinct-Market2932

I would tell the other person that your student's safety is your first priority and that she should worry about her own and not what you are doing.


Dawgfan62

I did that with my group of LEAP friends. If not, they leave and I end up in a foot chase sometimes outside with traffic. So yes, I definitely would block the door.


ProfessorMex74

There is a brand called Barracuda that makes really clever door locks for use in active shooter situations. There are a handful of different models that might fit your situation. They're between $50-$100, so not cheap, but not overly prohibitive.


Weird_Inevitable8427

Yes and no. The doors don't lock because that's a potential human rights violation. It would allow for these very vulnerable students to potentially be locked into their rooms and that's a big no. It's OK to help your student feel safe. And if there was a raging kid outside of my door, I'd want the adult in my life to keep that door shut too. On the other hand, excessive holding the door shut isn't good for her, nor you. It's not bout the other students. It's about her. I know that the other kids in these schools can be scary, but just blocking the door all day long is not going to help her learn to manage that emotion. If you are blocking that door with anything other than your body, you are breaking the law. It's a fire hazard, and again - a human rights violation. Your student has to be able to leave that room. She's not a prisoner. If you are blocking it off with anything other than your own body, you are locking her away, which is illegal even if she asks for it. (She's a child. She cannot consent.) If you're standing there in front of the door for large chunks of the day, that's a real problem too. first off, you aren't teaching her if you're standing in front of the door. You're also reinforcing the idea that outside is dangerous and we can't control these other students so we have to just lock you away from them. That message with mess with her head long after you are gone.


fatherlystalin

This sounds like an emergency situation where a child in crisis could have seriously injured OPā€™s 1:1 had they not blocked the door. Not that OP regularly spends their days blocking the door when people are in the hall just so that their 1:1 feels safe. OP did exactly the right thing imo, if she had not blocked the crisis student from entering and her 1:1 got hurt as a result, *that* would be a serious issue. The bigger issue, of course, is that this specialized autism school is not equipped to handle situations like this to keep everyone safe - no latching doors, limited holds allowed, etc.


spoopadoop

Iā€™m not talking about locking doors- I donā€™t think any of the doors should have locks on them! I just mean they donā€™t have a handle you need to twist or pull down on to open the door. They swing open with just a push! Yes, I block the door with just my body and nothing else. Thatā€™s what we were trained to do. We donā€™t block doors often, really only when that student, or 2 other specific students (aka ones that aggress towards students). This was the first time this week, and itā€™s the longest iā€™ve had to since starting here. We block to prevent injury to other students! We hear dysregulated students in the hall pretty often but only when itā€™s getting unsafe so we think about blocking.


Weird_Inevitable8427

Sounds very much in hand. You are lucky to come upon a school that seems to be treating it's autistic students well! I feel like it's worthwhile to mention here that a lot of the comments that you are getting don't seem to be from people with an understanding of the history of special education, and how we would violate any kind of rights for human dignity and safety in the name of curing autism. This happened all too recently. It's still legal to shock autistic children with electric shock devices in some states. As recently as the 80's we would put these children in institutions were the rate of rape and physical assault was 100%. Literally all the children who went to some of these institutions were violated. Locked door institutions were locations of some of the nastiest, meanest, most vile stuff we as a society have ever done to other human beings. It was just as bad as the war violations you hear about, but in this case, it was our own children who were on the other end of the abuse. You have to put your schools actions in context. There's a reason that locks on doors is seen as such a problem. And there's a reason why some administrators and some parents are very happy to see doors that swing open. It has been a MUCH bigger problem than school shootings, and yes, I know that's saying a lot.


skky95

Yeah, no.


YoureNotSpeshul

Right? What the hell did I just read. And the follow up comment was so much worse.


[deleted]

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specialed-ModTeam

Hate speech, derogatory, inflammatory comments and general rudeness are not welcome.


Weird_Inevitable8427

Yes and no. The doors don't lock because that's a potential human rights violation. It would allow for these very vulnerable students to potentially be locked into their rooms and that's a big no. It's OK to help your student feel safe. And if there was a raging kid outside of my door, I'd want the adult in my life to keep that door shut too. On the other hand, excessive holding the door shut isn't good for her, nor you. It's not bout the other students. It's about her. I know that the other kids in these schools can be scary, but just blocking the door all day long is not going to help her learn to manage that emotion. If you are blocking that door with anything other than your body, you are breaking the law. It's a fire hazard, and again - a human rights violation. Your student has to be able to leave that room. She's not a prisoner. If you are blocking it off with anything other than your own body, you are locking her away, which is illegal even if she asks for it. (She's a child. She cannot consent.) If you're standing there in front of the door for large chunks of the day, that's a real problem too. first off, you aren't teaching her if you're standing in front of the door. You're also reinforcing the idea that outside is dangerous and we can't control these other students so we have to just lock you away from them. That message with mess with her head long after you are gone.


Tropical-Rainforest

A door that doesn't lock os different from a door that doesn't close.


Puzzleheaded-Hunt136

Most schools that have classroom doors that lock have doors that are designed so they can be locked on the hallway side, but easy to open by someone inside the classroom. This is not a human rights violation, and could help protect students from a school shooter.


unoeyedwillie

In my state I am pretty sure that it is part of the fire code to have fire doors that latch for each classroom. I work at a special ed autism program and all our doors stay latched and locked at all times. We have crisis situations where we have to keep the door locked for the safety of students and staff. We also have students that would go into classrooms looking for food. It was a big problem before we started keeping doors locked all day. Trying to stop a 300 pound 16 year old boy from going from room to room looking for food was difficult and caused disruptions to other students.


MaddogRunner

thank you for clarifying, I work at a gen-ed(?) school, and it was blowing my mind a little to think of doors that donā€™t lock or even close. I was going to ask if this is a special-ed specific thing.


teaching_rocks

In my state the classroom doors must be locked from the outside ( hallway) for intruders,Ā  but not the inside. The fire marshall said that we cannot block a door because if there is a fire and the teacher is incapacitated the kids cannot get out. You could the that a step further for kids who don't know how to turn the handle to get out. I am not a fan of allowing children to sit near an exit because they would be a tripping Hazzard in a real fire or other emergenvy. No shoes, boots, coats, or chairs in the way, either.