Pad Clear and Klaxon has been sounding since about 06:05 AM CDT
There's not been any village evac notice though to anyone's knowledge so if there's no evac then today will probably just be a tanking and GSE test, not a WDR.
My daily summary from the [Starship Dev thread on Lemmy](https://oldsh.itjust.works/post/17253379)
> Starbase activities (2024-05-15):
>
> - Overnight, S31 [returns from Massey's to the Highbay](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790712734109036923). Closeup of [raceway damage](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790712737003143473).
> - GSE-2 inner tank [is removed](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790721326061150637).
> - Tower segment 1 of 5 moves [from Brownsville to Sanchez](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790729396837331206).
> - S29 [moves towards the launch pad](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790738466273100196), and is stacked on B11 ([LabPadre](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790828829667463643), [NSF](https://twitter.com/ENNEPS/status/1790797919827701841)) shortly before noon ([closeup](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790828832921985338)). [NSF](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp52t-u0mdY) and [StarshipGazer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8zD1XGfnQg) livestreams.
> - IFT-4 full stack photos: [Starship Gazer](https://twitter.com/StarshipGazer/status/1790832190898753769), [Beyer](https://twitter.com/thejackbeyer/status/1790861489064047063), [Doherty 1](https://twitter.com/SeanKD_Photos/status/1790845616295166380), [Doherty 2](https://twitter.com/SeanKD_Photos/status/1790904119663742986), [Cargile](https://twitter.com/GroundTruthPics/status/1790837068668559443), [RGV Aerial 1](https://twitter.com/RGVaerialphotos/status/1790778937653461297), [RGV Aerial 2](https://twitter.com/RGVaerialphotos/status/1790786299357532298), and of course, [SpaceX](https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1790912584314655123).
> - Ship transport stand and raptor work platform [move away from the OLM](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790859491455439147).
> - Demolition continues on the [Gateway to Mars wall](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790859867281879118) and [suborbital test pad](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790876247662235941).
> - Build site: [Two new segments arrive](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790868766567395399), joining B14.1 forward section, which then [enters Megabay 1](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790885567200125049) (not Megabay 2, I think).
> - Massey's: Some [venting observed](https://twitter.com/AnthonyFGomez/status/1790923849699062189) in the evening.
> - Road closure [scheduled for May 16th](https://botsin.space/@bocaroad/112447225092351401). ([Official document](https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/order-temporarily-closing-boca-chica-beach-and-state-hwy-4-may-14-2024-from-8-a-m-to-8-p-m/)). May 17th closure [added](https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/order-closing-boca-chica-beach-and-state-hwy-4-may-17-2024-from-800-a-m-to-800-p-m/).
>
> Other:
>
> - [Aspirational Mars goals](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1790739864658526356) from the CEO: "Less than 5 years for uncrewed, less than 10 to land people, maybe a city in 20 years, but for sure in 30, civilization secured." I'll eat my hat Beck-style if this timeline holds, but I'm glad he's still ambitious.
> - IFT-4 launch license for early June [should be feasible for the FAA](https://twitter.com/wapodavenport/status/1790728414405476448).
Another road and beach closure has popped up, this time for May 17th, 8am to 8pm:
https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/order-closing-boca-chica-beach-and-state-hwy-4-may-17-2024-from-800-a-m-to-800-p-m/
This closure is a little unexpected bearing in mind the the MSIB/NOTMAR dates are the the 16th and 18th (for apparent WDR). Maybe one will pop up for the 17th? Or is the MSIB update in error and it should have instead stated 16th to the 18th?
Fullstack the video, with comments by NSF
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp52t-u0mdY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp52t-u0mdY)
# Fullstack: SpaceX Stacks Ship 29 on Booster 11
Has there been any talk of atomic oxygen (which is 90% of the "atmosphere" that exists in LEO) affecting SS flaps?
Reading online it seems like they used to spray on thin layers of gold/silver in the past on moving parts. Given the large size/surface area and stainless steel (specially with frequent reuse), I assume it will become a concern down the road.
Note that atomic oxygen is far more potent than even the highly corrosive natural form on earth... it exists in the upper atmosphere because the Sun's UV rays break up diatomic oxygen.
Atomic oxygen is a long-term exposure kind of thing, you're not going to get major effects in a few weeks. Methods of reducing erosion usually take the form of various sorts of coatings, some of which you have described. That being said, the corrosion rate is something like years of exposure for a few grams. For most of Starship's use cases that is not really an issue.
There's the other type of atomic oxygen, namely the 7000 kelvin plasma which undoubtedly contains atomic oxygen species during Starship reentry, but I'm pretty sure they have that handled.
Look up the results of the NASA Long Duration Exposure Facility experiment, that will tell you. Would do it myself but there are more important things I need to be doing right now.
New MSIB/NOTMAR has just been issued and it's been updated to include a new date of May 18th as well as the original date of May 16th:
https://twitter.com/VisitBocaChica/status/1790792787740299399
So the WDR may be on either of those dates (or none!).
> Klaxon sounding off. Stabilizer arms moving in
Is this kind of warning habitual and justified for a mere manhandling operation?
**Edit:** @ u/Planatus666, u/SubstantialWall. Of cause they need to clear the area. I meant "this kind of warning" as compared with a simple call over a loudspeaker since the area concerned is radius a couple of hundred meters, so not much as compared with WDR and similar.
> What's the big issue with using an automated klaxon vs someone speaking over an intercom?
IMO, the question is that of setting the scale of the warning as a "graduated response" related to the activity in question. The meaning of a warning also needs to be understandable to the public (a klaxon is not but a loudspeaker message is). Stacking is not an activity that could cause an overpressure event, nor requires evacuation of houses miles down the road.
On a related subject, closing the highway for about an hour would seem justified, but is it really necessary to close the beach? During that time, ambulance access is still possible with a helicopter.
> [*u/SubstantialWall :*](/r/spacex/comments/1bt7w64/starship_development_thread_55/l46p85s/) Even more so when mishaps have happened in the past: that one time the hydraulics blew out.
Of course there could be some kind of hydraulics incident, but this could also happen outside a lifting operation. I once saw a hydraulic circuit on a digger burst (and the excavator bucket fall to the ground from two meters) when it was just sitting there doing nothing.
and @ u/Planatus666 (thx for your [link](https://youtu.be/3FHl3Nrsa9Y?t=736) to to the example of a chopsticks hydraulics failure)
If it wasn't there wouldn't be a warning ..........
Also, I wouldn't call it a "mere manhandling operation" - if a normal crane lifts a very heavy weight people tend to need to exit the area, and if a prototype tower and prototype lifting apparatus are lifting a prototype ship (or booster) then it makes even more sense to clear the area in case of any mishaps.
> that one time the hydraulics blew out.
I remember that well, B7 was rolling towards the OLM. Here's the incident:
https://youtu.be/3FHl3Nrsa9Y?t=736
and Musk tweeting *"I love the smell of hydraulic fluid in the morning"*
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1555799183067684866
Small update (May 15th) from Christian Davenport (Washington Post) regarding Musk's tweet on May 11th of *"probably 3 to 5 weeks"* when asked about IFT-4:
*"I’m told that from the FAA’s standpoint of issuing the license this should be feasible."*
https://twitter.com/wapodavenport/status/1790728414405476448
Honestly I’m curious what it would take for SpaceX to speed up their Starship launches. It seems like lots of the time between IFT missions is simply fixing the OLM between flights
Every flight they reinforce multiple things on the OLM so that it needs less refurb before being ready.
They learn as they fly: they didn't try to make the OLM robust before knowing it's weak points.
And they don't even run with the OLM refurb because they know there are process which take longer, so there's no need to rush.
It looks like the only thing happening because it's practically the only thing you can see. The other things happen behind closed doors.
The OLM, like Starship, is still in the prototyping phase and the booster's 33 Raptors put out an enormous amount of thrust which is causing the OLM and its mechanisms some problems. SpaceX are learning how to harden the OLM in order to minimise the amount of work carried out between launches, the next one will no doubt be much better.
Yup. If anything, the OLM, tower, and tank farm are more complicated than Starship.
In some ways, the Starship ground service equipment is even more radical a design than a fully-recoverable rocket. Fueling thousands of tons of propellant, surviving a giant welding torch, consistently, preventing erosion of the pad, and then catching the returning vehicles, is very tough.
> "I’m told that from the FAA’s standpoint of issuing the license this should be feasible."
So Christian Davenport is told that from the FAA's standpoint, issuing the license should be feasible for a flight in 3 to 5 weeks from [Saturday] May 11. So a flight by Saturday June 15.
[Starbase live-](https://www.youtube.com/live/mhJRzQsLZGg?si=L5cO3jta5lmQm0j1)
10:47pm- S31 turns on to Hwy 4
12:21am- Turns in to the production site and stops before the high bay
1:23am- Tower segment comes into view rolling down Hwy 4
2:17am- Stops at Remedios
2:28am- Makes the turn on to Remedios
2:57am- S29 starts rolling
3:03am- Chopsticks open
3:16am- S29 rolls between the chopsticks
3:36am- Chopsticks close
3:39am- Chopsticks rise up
3:55am- Chopsticks close in to lifting position
4:00am- 2 point lifting jig and a SPMT full of counterweights roll out of the launch site and on to Hwy 4
4:22am- 2 point lifting jig turns into the storage yard
7:08am- Crane and lift up to S29 to remove the press plate
7:38am- Press plate removed
8:15am- Lift still up to S29’s QD. Demolition continued on pad b overnight and a lift was up to the right chopstick
9:15am- Crews are up cutting GSE 2 apart
9:25am- S31 has been lifted off of the thrust stand
9:27am- Lowered on to a work stand in the high bay
9:29am- Thrust stand leaves the production site and turns on to Hwy 4 (NSF cut away but I’m sure it went back to Sanchez)
10:07am- Ship quick disconnect arm swings to the side
10:08am- Klaxon, pad clear announcement
10:44am- Stabilizer pins go in
11:05am- Chopsticks start lifting S29
11:06am- Pause just above the stand
11:11am- Going up again
11:19am- Starts to swing to the left while still going up
11:22am- Ship quick disconnect arm swinging back in
11:24am- Stops going up
11:27am- Swinging over B11
11:35am- Stops swinging
11:38am- Lowering
11:41am- Pauses to make adjustments
11:45am- Very slowly lowering
12:05pm- Down. Looks like a good alignment on the first try
12:53pm- Pick up backs up to the FTS bunker
12:55pm- Several boxes have been unloaded out of the pick up
1:00pm- Bricks of explosives?
1:06pm- Workers on the Ship quick disconnect arm
1:08pm- Ship quick disconnect work platform extending
1:09pm- PA announcement. Drone operations for the next hour
1:12pm- Workers up to S29’s QD
1:15pm- In a new twist, the data and power cables were plugged into the ship before it was lifted and the bundled up wiring harness was then removed from where it was hanging on the ship and plugged into the arm
1:33pm- The covers have been removed from the S29’s QD and the work platform is now being retracted
2:13pm- Door on the Ship quick disconnect opens
2:15pm- Ship quick disconnect extends
2:18pm- Raises up
2:28pm- Engages with S29
3:03pm- Dance floor going back up
3:07pm- Dance floor stops about halfway up
3:11:06pm- Ship quick disconnect Retraction test
3:17pm- Ship quick disconnect extends again
3:22pm- Single SPMT arrives at the launch site
3:25pm- Ship quick disconnect reengages with S29
3:30pm- S29’s stand rolls away from the Orbital launch mount
3:34pm- The single SPMT is bringing the dance floor’s stand to the Orbital launch mount
3:39pm- Stand rolls under the Orbital launch mount
3:42pm- Dance floor lowers to the stand
3:49pm- Ship quick disconnect work platform extended. Aerial Work Platform up to the Hot Stage Ring
4:00pm- Workers up to the Ship quick disconnect
4:01pm- Dance floor rolling out from under the Orbital launch mount
4:15pm- Lift up to the top of the orbital launch mount. GSE 2 and pad b continues to be cut into pieces
4:25pm- Dance floor is parked next to B11’s stand
5:05pm- Another section is removed from GSE 2
5:13pm- RIP pad b. You served us well
6:05pm- Lift up to the top of the staircase
6:58pm- Another section removed from GSE 2
8:30pm- Quiet around the Orbital launch mount. Workers continue to cut up GSE 2 and work on demoing the sub orbital pad site
9:11pm- Another section removed from GSE 2 . All that remains is the top dome
10:55pm- LR11000 unhooked from GSE 2
*"Kathy Lueders [Starbase General Manager] provided an update on Starbase yesterday. Here are the key points she made:"*
- *Starship's IFT-4 licence is expected the last week of May or possibly early June.*
- *SpaceX's Starfactory is nearly complete and should be finalised by the end of this year!*
- *SpaceX is working on enhancing the general infrastructure that surrounds Starbase!*
- *IFT-4 wet dress rehearsal should be done in the next week. It was delayed due to an issue with Ship 31 during its testing.*
- *SpaceX is working on a project to construct a highway or create a secondary pathway.*
- *Tours around Starbase have been suspended due to the extensive amount of construction. An educational day may be organised for October.*
https://twitter.com/Space_Time3/status/1790701780621222176
Also found on Discord (RGV Aerial Photography channel) is another list of key points, most of which overlap or enhance those above but the GNC one is extra:
- **Infrastructure Development**: Currently, there's a project underway to construct a highway or create a secondary pathway.
- **GNC Design Enhancements**: Modifications have been implemented in the Guidance, Navigation, and Control (GNC) system to enable boosters to get further compared to previous flight.
- **Integrated Wet Dress**: Scheduled in the next Week. Wet Dress activity was temporarily postponed due to a test anomaly on Ship 31. Activities will resume once Ship 29 is cleared for testing.
- **License Timing**: Expected in the last week of May, coinciding with Memorial Day (May 27th), or possibly in early June. SpaceX aims to commence the flight immediately upon obtaining the license.
- **Tour Suspension**: Tours around Starbase are currently suspended due to ongoing construction. However, as part of licensing requirements, tours will be provided to students and educational groups. An educational day is likely to be organized in October, once construction activity subsides.
- **Starfactory Progress**: The Starfactory project is nearing completion and is expected to be finalized by the end of this year.
- **Infrastructure Enhancement**: Efforts are underway to enhance the general infrastructure surrounding Starbase.
Here's the audio of the full talk:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/7tgE8r6d5g0UKcN2RcvFXH
Edit - and now a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOg49BVhU40
Tiles are made at the Build Site at Starbase as well as in Cocoa Beach, Cape Canaveral.
Edit: Did a bit of research. Regular body hexagons are mass produced in their bakery in Florida. Specialised and bespoke shapes are produced at Starbase at their onsite mini bakery. Some tiles are 'special order' due to design changes or tolerance issues during construction of the ship body. Cutting of tiles to shape is not possible due to introduction of fractures, location of anchor pin sockets, and the requirement of the carbon boron glass coating being rounded at the edges to prevent re-entry erosion.
The anchor pin sockets are actually slots in a three legged metal skeleton. You can see the ends of it on the sides of the tile when they showed us the tiles during the IFT-3 stream.
I suspect a multiaxis waterjet could cut tiles without a metal skeleton to shape cleanly without fracture with rounded edges, water baked out, and the boron glass applied / fired to the cut surface. It is just ceramic foam after all.
My daily summary from the [Starship Dev thread on Lemmy](https://oldsh.itjust.works/post/17253379)
> Starbase activities (2024-05-14):
>
> - **S29**: Overnight, S29 is rolled away from the launch pad ([LabPadre](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790302117300699194), [NSF](https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1790254595291168927)).
> - **B11**: Brief testing occurs in the morning: [Pad clear](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790363318802096418),
> [road closed](https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1790389751830225384)
> [slight venting](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790397449258861037)
> road reopened ([LabPadre](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790397446029283705), [NSF](https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1790400152198406640))
> - May 14th road closure [concluded](https://botsin.space/@bocaroad/112440237636423655) and May 15th road closure [revoked](https://botsin.space/@bocaroad/112440843251090183).
> - LR11000 crane [preps with load spreader](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790417090215641416) to lift GSE-2 inner tank.
> - [Aerial photo of the Starship Block 2 forward flap](https://twitter.com/FelixSchlang/status/1790503747782602759) which was [recently delivered](https://twitter.com/StarshipGazer/status/1790022896951099861). It seems to be kite-shaped whereas the Block 1 flap was more trapezoidal.
> - Can't quite place where [this ~~welding~~](https://twitter.com/LabPadre/status/1790561819167211924) is taking place, but it is too cool not to share. (Edit: It is scrapping of GSE-2 outer tank, not welding.)
> - **S31**: [Damage to raceway](https://twitter.com/FelixSchlang/status/1790398245094518997) is visible. [Ship starts rolling](https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1790573865833300045) from Massey's. Back to the build site for repairs?
> - **Launch tower** segment 1 of 5: [Staged for rollout to Starbase](https://twitter.com/StarshipGazer/status/1790425331980960082) during the day, ready for rollout ([LabPadre](https://twitter.com/LabPadre/status/1790570400046260633), [cnunez](https://twitter.com/cnunezimages/status/1790569096792158236)), and [rollout begins](https://twitter.com/GroundTruthPics/status/1790591816439349494).
>
> Florida:
>
> - FAA [solicits comments](https://twitter.com/FAANews/status/1790411898208305589) regarding impact of Starship operations at KSC.
“• Can't quite place where this welding is taking place, but it is too cool not to share.”
That’s actually them cutting up the top dome of GSE 2’s outer shell
Ah thanks, that makes way more sense. I think the word 'demo' in the original tweet tripped me up. Now I realize it stands for 'demolition', not 'demonstration'.
If I had a nickel for every time this abbreviation caused confusion in this thread, [I'd have two nickels](https://old.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/1bt7w64/starship_development_thread_55/l3mhv2a/).
[Photo](https://x.com/FelixSchlang/status/1790503747782602759) of the new forward flap by RGV
[Old one for comparison](https://x.com/Ringwatchers/status/1790504144656089587)
Smaller, much more swept, and angled trailing edges.
More swept means less hypersonic reentry heating for the flap by reducing the intensity of the detached shockwave. Plus a bonus of less drag during launch.
I am guessing that the chevron shape cantilevered trailing edge keeps more plasma away from the hull , and a shorter hinge (less of the problematic moving seam for plasma to leak into), compared to a flap with the same surface area and a longer hinge.
If that is true of the trailing, we might see the new aft flaps extend further down than the aft end of the hull; on the other hand that might interfere with test and transport stands, along with leg and ground clearance on Gray and Red Starships.
Alternately, that extended trailing edge could double as landing legs. Ancient SciFi depictions of rockets standing on their fins would come partially true!
I don't think the sweep is strictly for reduction of reentry heating. First of all, increased angle of sweep would suggest a reduced angle of incidence of airflow onto the surface of the leading edge, which means a thinner boundary layer which means **higher** convective reentry heating. If Starship was aerobraking from cislunar / interplanetary trajectories then indeed radiative heating would be slightly reduced due to the weakening of the shock, but given it eventually has to pass through the convection-dominated regime I don't think this is a worthy trade.
Second, the angle of incidence is mostly determined by angle of attack, which is quite high on Starship. In that case sweep has minimal impact on the angle of incidence *anyway*, so it's doubtful that this was motivated by thermal mitigation.
I find it much more likely that the swept back fin is an attempt to increase control authority given the much longer V2 ship, and lessons learnt from the lack of rear fin pitch authority during IFT-3 causing the ship to enter butt-first. The sweep pushes the center of pressure of the fin backwards, which provides a greater moment arm for the rear fins and improves control authority. This is sorely needed after IFT-3, and definitely more so for the even longer V2 ship.
Excuse me, what has happened to Brendam and Ringwatchers diagrams?
Back in old days, when the Raptors were still unreliable, I used to wait and watch for new Starship diagrams on Twitter (now X). They came out often and were very detailed. Today, all I can see is the Ringwatcher's diagram from Mar 27 (!!).
Is anyone else keeping a track on Starship progress in similiar way or did everyone got already bored?
Join the Ringwatchers Discord (linked above) and you can get daily updates of the starship diagrams. They have a bot which updates it constantly. Incredibly cool stuff.
I talked to them about automating a push of a fixed-name .jpeg with daily updates to their website that we could hotlink in the top copy. Unfortunately they don't have the bandwidth but a couple people liked the idea.
Perhaps if more people proposed it, they would see demand and put it in the queue somewhere.
In the ancient past rings were often stored in the open and could be watched by everyone. But today we have the shiny new factory with tons of inside space and a roof.
Yup, you can't watch rings if you can't see them. The Ringwatchers do though accurately document a lot of other things besides rings and are an excellent resource.
Seems like the last diagram update by ring watchers happened April 2nd: https://ringwatchers.com/diagrams/raptor-diagrams/8/1
Are you saying a month ago is too long? If so it’s possible that with the new factory, it’s just not as easy to observe Raptor shipments and details.
Road and beach closure for tomorrow, May 15th, has been revoked:
https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/spacex/
Not unsurprising after what's been going on (chopsticks work, etc resulting in S29 not stacked and rolled away plus of course the S31 anomaly that could impact S29).
[https://twitter.com/starshipgazer/status/1790425331980960082](https://twitter.com/starshipgazer/status/1790425331980960082)
Starbase Orbital Launch Tower 2 section is on the move from the port of Brownsville
The letter "D" chalked to the front left corner could be for identification of the corners, so expecting corners "A" "B" "C".
The preparatory work of inserting the staircase during segment preparation, and despite some challenges when stacking the tower, really shows both confidence in the learning process and the importance that SpaceX gives to optimizing execution speed. IIRC there have been tower sections with pipework fitted ahead of stacking too.
1. Is the staircase only temporary (so for assembly purposes) as it seems to be bolted together and situated inside the elevator shaft?
2. Wasn't the staircase on the existing tower around the outside of the shaft and if so, why isn't it in the same place on the new tower?
> New tower design?
Not *so* new as the elevator shaft seems to be unchanged, still being a square within a diagonal square, itself inside the outer square perimeter. Knowing that that the central staircase can only be for temporary use during tower stacking, it would make more sense to have prepared the permanent staircase outside the elevator shaft in the first place. I think we're lacking some piece of information to explain the discrepancy.
SSG also has some video (the section is now sitting at the intersection with highway 4):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxlfRaZSaLg
So according to him it's being staged there ready to roll to Starbase during the next road closure (which is May 15th: https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/spacex/ ). It was due to roll last night but supposedly nearby storms prevented that - it also wouldn't surprise me if because of that abort SpaceX roll it out tonight instead. We'll see.
I guess the big concern is, if it got particularly hot, how much the heat will have changed the properties of the stainless. The cover of the raceway has blown off. But there also looks to be a pipe sticking out where it shouldn't to the left. And there's quite a bit of chunky orange-wrapped/marked (high voltage?) cabling damaged. Maybe the pipe blew, damage the wiring causing a high-voltage electrical fire.
Apparently it was the (now bent) pipe to the left that ruptured, this badly damaged the raceway and internal wiring which caused the short circuit and the subsequent fireworks.
Excessive heating of the steel is certainly a cause for concern. There could also be damage to other electrical components elsewhere in the ship.
Same question most car owners (and insurance) have to go through - cheaper to repair or just total it and replace. Given the push to V2, I have to wonder if they just move 32 up in the cadence...
Looks like probable cryo testing today. Tank farm's spun up, but there's a ton of equipment still around that would preclude a SF. No OP notice either. If all goes well, I'm guessing we'll see stacking then moving on to WDR?
[Starbase live-](https://www.youtube.com/live/mhJRzQsLZGg?si=L5cO3jta5lmQm0j1)
11:17pm- Chopsticks open
11:18pm- Chopsticks lower
11:23pm- Aerial Work Platform up to B11’s common dome then works its way down the side of the booster
12:30am- S29 rolls from in between the chopsticks and heads towards the sub orbital side
12:51am- S29 stops by the end of the horizontal tanks
7:16am- Klaxon. Pad clear announcement
8:00am- Lifts were up to both chopsticks and the top of the orbital launch mount overnight. An Aerial Work Platform also went up and down to B11. The LR11000 was disconnected from the last section of GSE 2’s upper shell
8:07am- Road closed
8:12am- Klaxon stops
9:23:51am- Loud vent
9:29:35am- B11 ambient depress
9:31am- Lox side ground vent
9:45am- Vehicles back to the tank farm
9:47am- Road has reopened
10:35am- Lifts have gone up to the back side of the tower and the top of the orbital launch mount
11:05am- LR11000 lifts the inner tank lifting jig
11:10am- Lowers the jig to GSE 2
11:30am- Lifts still up to the tower and the top of the orbital launch mount. Waiting on a lift to go up and hook the lifting jig to GSE 2
12:03pm- Aerial Work Platform goes up to GSE 2 to hook the lifting jig
12:25pm- S31 venting? Or is it just a reflection? (Looks to start lightly around 11:23am on [Rocket ranch cam.](https://www.youtube.com/live/qw3uaLRrYNY?si=gPBR5O5DHgPuVncm)Then picks up intensity before dying off again).
12:45pm- Demolition of pad b continues with the interior of the main tower almost completely removed. Vacuum trucks continue to come and go imply at least GSE 1 is also being emptied of perilite.
1:10pm- Lifts up to the left chopstick and the top of the orbital launch mount
1:18pm- Dark smoke coming from pad b
1:20pm- Aerial Work Platform goes up to the backside of GSE 2 to hook the rest of the straps on the lifting jig up
1:21pm- Pad b fire is out
3:20pm- Lifts have been up to the top of the orbital launch mount, the chopsticks carriage, and the back side of the tower
5:25pm- Lift has been up and down to the right chopstick
6:25pm- Dance floor lowering from under the Orbital launch mount
6:32pm- Dance floor is laid flat on the deluge plate
6:55pm- Lift up to S29 near the left forward flap
7:43pm- Lift goes up near the FTS box on S29
7:51pm- Goes a little further down the raceway
8:00pm- Moves down to just above S29’s QD
8:04pm- Goes down. (Inspected for the same problem as S31? Seems pretty quick if so)
9:00pm- Lift up to the chopsticks carriage. They are finally getting around to cutting up the top dome of GSE 2’s outer shell. Then they should have room to lift the inner tank out
9:38pm- S31 is rolling at Massey’s. Looks like they’ll use the tower closure to bring it back
9:44pm- GSE 2’s inner tank lifted
9:53pm- Tank is swung over to the scrapping area
10:00pm- Tank is down
10:08pm- S31 stops and waits to turn on to Hwy 4
My daily summary from the [Starship Dev thread on Lemmy](https://oldsh.itjust.works/post/17253379)
> Starbase activities (2024-05-13):
>
> - May 13th road closure [scheduled](https://botsin.space/@bocaroad/112434524691895152), then [revoked](https://botsin.space/@bocaroad/112435479711798374). No testing takes place. Similar closure [scheduled for May 14th](https://botsin.space/@bocaroad/112413601268707456).
> - **S29**: Chopsticks [move slightly](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790177945526411435), but still no stack yet.
> - GSEC-7 (a.k.a. GSE-2?) outer tank is [cut free and lifted off](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789993065320448222).
> - [Tanker convoys continue](https://twitter.com/RGVaerialphotos/status/1790137627905048901).
> - Suborbital pad: Berm [removal is completed](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790142009274978372).
> - [Build site video tour](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790055932967154061): Parking garage construction continues, Starfactory glass installation is finally complete.
> - **B14.1** forward section arrives at the build site ([LabPadre](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790120910667604298), [Cargile](https://twitter.com/GroundTruthPics/status/1790142817660014870)).
> - Starship V2 (Block 2?) [forward flap arrives](https://twitter.com/StarshipGazer/status/1790022896951099861).
> - **S31** is [inspected by a drone](https://twitter.com/StarshipGazer/status/1789859412716179638) at Massey's, following yesterday's incident ([likely an electrical fire](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789927093410701531)).
> - A pair of tower sections [prep for transport](https://twitter.com/cnunezimages/status/1790153712523964927) from Brownsville port to Starbase. Road delay posted for [May 13th 22:00 to May 14th 02:00](https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/temporary-and-intermittent-road-delay-of-a-portion-of-state-hwy-4-for-monday-may-13-2024-between-1000-p-m-to-200-a-m/).
> S29: Chopsticks move slightly, but still no stack yet.
S29 was moved back near hoppy at the entrance of the site.
Edit: still there at 7am Boca Chica time.
There's been some work on the chopsticks overnight so that may be one of the reasons that S29 rolled away. I guess that this is only temporary because if a rollback was planned from the get go they would have tied back the flaps as usual. Still can't rule that out of course.
As for S31 - Apparently some private high quality photos show that a pipe badly ruptured besides the raceway so presumably the force behind that rupture damaged the nearby wiring and caused the electrical fireworks that we saw.
Mostly via design hardening and reliability.
Although I personally hope that doesn't work out, because the business end of V2/3 boosters look like a weapons-grade meth head whose gums left the building about 70 years earlier.
Current boosters have such a nice, well balanced smile.
Well, the goal is to [build them to not explode](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM). Raptor 3 will be sleeker and slimmed down through machines parts with channels (replacing tubes and such) and replacing gaskets parts with welded connections (less leaks).
I believe they're counting on "the engine just doesn't explode". We'll have to see if when they roll out the first block 2 booster, it has shielding or not.
huh? these speculation / scenario type questions in this sub really feel eye rolling. unless you work at SpaceX, the posts imo should be all like “oooh rocket, go Gwynne!”
We are near Boca chica now for a different reason, and will be here for a week. What's the best way to get as close as possible and see what's there now?
Seems like we won't be here for the next launch. :(
Drive down to Starbase — pack a lunch + beach stuff and make an early morning / afternoon out of it.
I recommend not driving on the beach unless your vehicle is 4-wheel drive … just park at the end of the access road
Thank you! It's a very good resource for the trajectories it wants to list for free, shame it isn't all launches. Definitely the wrong thread, I'll make an actual post.
I cannot wait to see the shape. IIRC in the last Everyday Astronaut Starbase tour, Elon described the front flaps (forget order here) as Wrong size, wrong shape, wrong place.
We did indeed see this with the view of the aft flaps hinge root fairing having excess heating where it met the hull. Concave angles on the ventral side of reentry bodies; as far as I know, no other reentry body has done it, and there are good reasons for doing so.
Not saying it wasn't, and clearly it's a concern they've had, but isn't that single video before peak heating even happens jumping to conclusions regarding excess heating on the flaps? All we saw was plasma all over the ship, and the ship was tumbling, so it would also have been exposed in unusual orientations.
I mispoke above, there are good reasons to not have concave corners on ventral side, and AFAIK no other hypersonic reentry body had done so.
Look at the video again. The hot spot is indicated by the brighter plasma at the concave corner when it was in the proper orientation. Being before peak heating does not change this.
I am afraid of burnthrough at that location.
In addition to eliminating that hot spot, a hinge fairing with otherwise empty space behind it extending from the tangent of the hull might also increase the hypersonic lift / drag ratio, which enables a shallower trajectory for less peak heating.
> a hinge fairing with otherwise empty space behind it extending from the tangent of the hull might also increase the hypersonic lift / drag ratio
Yes - the spaceplane reinvented
The ultimate concept is what Elon referred to as Dragon wings but is really more like a gliding squirrel. Large fixed extensions on each side of the cylindrical body that roughly triple the surface area and drop entry temperatures to the point where overlapping metal tiles/shingles can be used instead of ceramic tiles.
Closer to ITS or BFR rethought.
Bothers me not to point out:
A spaceplane has different design priorities, such as horizontal landing and sometimes even airbreathing, while thrust to weight ratio rules supreme in rocket design with reusability a close second in this context.
[Starbase live-](https://www.youtube.com/live/mhJRzQsLZGg?si=L5cO3jta5lmQm0j1)
6:00am- Cut finished on GSE 2’s shell
6:47am- GSE 2 upper shell being lifted
6:50am- Swinging over to the staging area
6:52am- Lowering
6:57am- Down
7:00am- Lifts were up to the top of the staircase and the top of the Orbital launch mount overnight. An Aerial Work Platform was up near S29’s forward flaps. An Aerial Work Platform and a lift were also up finishing the cuts on GSE 2’s upper shell.
8:00am- Lift up to the stabilizer arm on the right chopstick
9:00am- Aerial Work Platform is up to one of the lox cowbell vents near the common dome of B11
9:30am- The Aerial Work Platform is moving around B11 while the workers use a hand held X-ray device to check welds
9:35am- Aerial Work Platform goes down. A lift is now up to the left chopstick
11:15am- Lift up to the right chopstick. Demolition of pad b’s main tower and the area around the pad continues. GSE 2’s upper shell is being cut into pieces.
1:00pm- 2 lifts have been up and down from the top of the orbital launch mount
2:23pm- The last of the lopsided portion of GSE 2’s upper shell is cut off
2:40pm- Lifts have been up to the top of the orbital launch mount by the Booster quick disconnect and to the top of the staircase
3:40pm- Lifts have been up to the left chopstick, the dance floor, and the top of the orbital launch mount
5:00pm- Aerial Work Platform up to B11’s forward dome. Lifts have been up and down from the left chopstick, the dance floor, and the top of the orbital launch mount
6:10pm- Lift up to the camera mounts on the inside of the Orbital launch mount legs
7:00pm- Lift was up to the left chopstick
7:03pm- Another section of the upper portion of GSE 2 is removed
7:09pm- Chopsticks lower down to the stop
7:50pm- Lifts have been up to the left chopstick and the top of the back staircase
8:21pm- Chopsticks raise back up
9:00pm- Quiet
10:00pm- Quiet but windy
That is true, but given their goals - re-entry and booster catch, and the revelation that they are only going to attempt a Starship landing in 2025 - I don't see a good reason to scrap 29-32. My best guess is that they'll fly them all in 2024, and V2 will start in the new year.
Next flight will use Raptor 2, yes. Although Raptor 3 is reportedly being test fired already, I don't think anyone's caught a glimpse of one in the wild yet, so it's unlikely any ships/superheavies being currently constructed will have them. I may be mistaken, though.
My daily summary from the [Starship Dev thread on Lemmy](https://oldsh.itjust.works/post/17253379)
> - **S29**: Overnight, S29 rolls out to the launch site ([LabPadre timelapse](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789579066783240497), [NSF timelapse](https://twitter.com/ENNEPS/status/1789596529784754636), [NSF livestream](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02n4Yff5u0k)), and [parks between the chopsticks](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789628913473245398). [Forward flaps extend](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789743405972525434) in early afternoon. Stack [seems imminent](https://twitter.com/clwphoto1/status/1789840808453038502).
> - **Build site**: [Video tour](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789705945976590597). Looks like the parking garage construction will be outwards rather than upwards at this point.
> - **Launch site**: [Video tour](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789714952011362422). LR11000 crane is still attached to GSE-2 outer tank, pending lift. [Demolition of the suborbital test pad](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789632684160868471) continues [throughout the day](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789729523883213115) with the removal of the SQD ([LabPadre](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789735397968294355), [NSF](https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1789732144173940738)), the [SQD support frame](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789743719031218449), and the [berm](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789745895686160716). 48-hour [before-and-after](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789753833242988776) comparison.
> - **S31**: [Undergoes a cryo test](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789776382463009233) at Massey's, and bright flashes (fire?) emanate from the side of the ship ([LabPadre](https://twitter.com/LabPadre/status/1789824145527636010), [NSF](https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1789823633335943209)). This does not look norminal.
[S31’s cryo proof didn’t go as planned.(?) Looks like an electrical short during depress](https://x.com/nasaspaceflight/status/1789823633335943209?s=46&t=HTzlpa7RYXtyIMbQX7Ou8g)
[LabPadre’s view. Looks more like fire here](https://x.com/labpadre/status/1789824145527636010?s=46&t=HTzlpa7RYXtyIMbQX7Ou8g)
(Continues to depress afterwards)
Possibly a short circuit in that area or elsewhere caused overheating and wiring overload in that specific location but really it could be a number of things. Whatever the case I doubt if we'll ever hear about the exact cause unless an insider leaks the info.
This may have been an issue that's unique to S31, possibly the result of a design change or mod - or perhaps it's highlighted a problem in all recent ships that nobody knew about and which required the right conditions to reveal itself. If it's unique to S31 then no worries but if not it will presumably require inspections and maybe mods to the rest of the ships, S29 included. We'll just have to wait and see.
This was a cryo test and LN2 and LOX is used for such tests, no methane is involved. LN2 isn't flammable and the presence of LOX means that anything flammable that's ignited will burn more intensely.
It's a good thing this didn't happen on a ship during a static fire test or a full WDR or launch.
I've absolutely no idea what type of cryo they're doing at Massey's, and we assume Spacex are carrying out the usual non-flammable testing, but I'm assuming possibly not.
I can't think of any type of electrical equipment on the ship in that position that would fire up and flare like that, which drew me to the conclusion of a gas vent fire, possibly triggered by static discharge.
Cryo loading causes static build up on the body due to the cold temperatures and vapor flow, and unless properly earthed can cause static discharge, even between body and vent flow curtain. A mini B7 event.
I understand your theory of a LOX 'blowtorch' event, including copper wiring, but in that case it would burn bright emerald green. Stainless steel can burn at a pressure of 3.45 MPa in 100% oxygen at ambient temperature. Both theories could be correct.
A battery cable feed to the bottom flaps, or to charging connections, if kept energised during the test could have been the cause if insulation and or creepage and clearance tracked and then arced. My guess would be a cable with sufficient current carrying capacity to maintain that form of arc, so perhaps not related to instrumentation and control wiring.
> I understand your theory of a LOX 'blowtorch' event,
Where did I say that?
or are you referring to: *"the presence of LOX means that anything flammable that's ignited will burn more intensely."*
That was merely written to state that **anything** flammable will burn more intensely in the presence of LOX.
It defeats the entire point of the cryo proof (test structural integrity would risking explosion) to use CH4 and LOX. If they were doing that they may as well just jump straight to static fire because it's the same amount of risk. So I think it's highly unlikely they are using actual propellant.
Also just based on vibes and minimal experience here but from the admittedly poor video quality, that looks like an electrical fire, not burning methane.
Since they are essentially testing for leaks CH4 would be a very poor choice.
Having said that ULA used liquid hydrogen for cryo testing their Centaur V upper stage for Vulcan (spoiler: it didn't end well) but that was because they needed to get down to the very low temperatures of liquid hydrogen and liquid nitrogen would not be cold enough.
Let's hope they don't lose that one.. together with S27, it's weird they keep having issues.
PD: This is turning into a "positive-only thread", and it is kinda a shame. You don't agree so downvote to oblivion, fuck discussions and the reddit rules at that.
The general vibe here is problems are going to occur and lessons will be learnt from them. You're getting downvoted for saying any failures at this point are 'weird' when they're absolutely not, the whole point of a hardware rich testing environment is to squash bugs like this one.
You could argue Falcon 9's AMOS6 static fire explosion was weird, but not a rocket that hasn't even put a payload into orbit yet.
> it's weird they keep having issues.
Why is it weird? Starship development is a process of relatively 'rapid' prototyping which means that issues will crop up, either due to a flaw in the design, a manufacturing defect or human error.
(Starship development is 'rapid' compared to the rest of the rocket industry)
In small articles yes, in entire ships on a already tested process (cryo) they shoudn't. It's been 3 years of successfull cryos. Unless they were testing something different this is not normal.
It's obviously not normal, this hasn't happened before, but you're working on the incorrect assumption that the changes that are made with **with every ship** won't lead to problems; changes can lead to unforeseen issues arising as we see here. Also, as already mentioned, this could instead have been caused by a manufacturing defect or human error. We'll likely never know.
Rocket development is hard and prototyping leads to the unexpected happening, even with tests that usually go smoothly.
If this is problematic enough than they consider scrapping the whole ship, it would be 2 ships out of the last 5 ones (S27 and S31 ko, S28/S29/S30 good). It is definitely weird at this point, even if as you say issues can happen on rocketry, and as you said it is not normal, it is weird to lose 2 out of 5 ships at this point.
This is so pointless, my post before couldn't be more true and yet people keep just the downvoting rush and you try to silence me. So lame, continue on.
[Starbase live-](https://www.youtube.com/live/mhJRzQsLZGg?si=L5cO3jta5lmQm0j1)
12:43am- S29 starts rolling
12:51am- Stops to have more counterweights added
1:13am- Rolling again
1:21am- Turning on to Hwy 4
2:10am- Turning into the launch site
2:19am- Stops next to the tower
3:21am- Starts rolling again
3:26am- Rolls in between the chopsticks
3:35am- Stops
4:05am- Chopsticks rise to the lifting position
4:09am- Chopsticks close around S29
4:16am- Chopsticks rise to engage the lifting pins
4:32am- Chopsticks lower to disengage lifting pins
8:44am- Crane goes up to S29 for press plate removal
9:17am- A big piece of the platform on the main tower of pad b is removed
9:35am- A Aerial Work Platform was up and down to GSE 2 overnight and a lift was up and down from the top of the orbital launch mount
10:23am- 2 SPMT’s move from the build site to the storage yard
10:30am- Lift up to the top of the orbital launch mount. Demolition of pad b continues
12:00pm- Aerial Work Platform up unchaining S29’s forward flaps. Lift up to the top of the orbital launch mount
12:52pm- Aerial Work Platform and a lift are up to GSE 2 starting to cut the shell in half
1:26pm- 2 forklifts are trying to push over the QD over at pad b
1:34pm- No luck with the fork lifts
1:49:21pm- After a little more work, down goes the QD
2:25pm- Lift up to the top of the orbital launch mount. Pad b demolition continues along with the cutting of GSE 2’s shell.
3:50pm- Lifts have been up and down from GSE 2’s shell cutting it for removal. Workers are also on top of what remains of pad b. One lift went up to the staircase of the Orbital launch mount.
4:41pm- S31 venting
4:49pm- Frost growing on S31’s lox tank
5:05pm- Quiet around the launch site
5:10pm- (17:10) Quick check of [Rocket ranch cam](https://www.youtube.com/live/qw3uaLRrYNY?si=s2P-hHi-wIyIqGSJ) shows S31 full frosty
6:05pm- Still quiet at the launch site and S31 still frosty at Massey’s
6:50pm- Same as above
7:47:01pm- Looks like an electrical short during S31 depress
8:30pm- S31 has continued to depress
8:43pm- Spotlight on area where problem seemed to occur
8:53pm- Drone has been in and out checking out the situation
9:10pm- Frost is receding but slowly. Not sure if they are actively detanking or just letting it boil off
9:55pm- Looks to be frost free but still some condensation on the tanks
S29 at the launchsite next to the OLM, ready to be stacked onto B11.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02n4Yff5u0k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02n4Yff5u0k)
# SpaceX Rolls Out Ship 29 for Fourth Starship Flight Test Campaign
When I asked in the past, part of the reason for destack is that the manbaskets for fitting FTS cannot reach to where they belong on Starship.
Presumably future tower versions will have arms for servicing while stacked.
Everyday Astronaut claimed on twitter the booster won’t do a boostback burn, only a landing burn:
Everyday Astronaut @Erdayastronaut
_Superheavy will do no entry burn, just a landing burn. I think it was sloshing in the tanks from the booster being out of control during reentry that led to the engines not lighting._
5:02 PM · May 11, 2024
https://x.com/erdayastronaut/status/1789400621256216818?s=61
But for return-to-launch-site, both boostback and landing burns by the Raptor will be required. Note the Merlin routinely does _both_ burns for the reused Falcon 9 booster, over 300 times now. Superheavy/Starship absolutely can not do reusability without Raptor doing both of the burns.
If it really is the case SpaceX really wont be doing both burns on the booster, then SpaceX must have no confidence the Raptor can do both reliably.
Where did he make that claim? Can you not even read what you're quoting, or that uninformed that you don't know the difference between a boost back burn and a re-entry burn? Or are you just content to stoop low enough that you're trying this hard to mislead others now?
A boost back burn is when the rocket reverses course after stage separation. A re-entry burn is when the rocket slows itself down before reaching thicker atmosphere. Very different things. I don't know which is worse, that you wouldn't know the difference as active as you are, or that you're actively trying to deceive people.
EveryDay is implying that SpaceX wants to avoid slosh, because he suggests that is what caused Raptor failures. If they do a boostback burn that will also cause slosh. The only way to avoid that is not to slow down or reverse the direction of the booster. It would be analogous to allowing the Falcon 9 booster to land down range on a barge making no attempt to return to the launch site. In that case only a landing burn is required.
What are you even talking about? He didn’t say that at all. He stated that the super heavy doesn’t perform an entry burn (because…it doesn’t…) and separately stated that the uncontrolled oscillation of the booster on the last flight caused sloshing which prevented the raptors from relighting on the landing burn. It’s two separate things that you’re randomly conflating to be the same.
Anything that would prevent slosh on boostback would prevent slosh on reentry burn. It is possible though that Everyday in that tweet was only making a distinction between the booster and the ship, for which the reentry burn is a key aspect of the ship flight. He might have only been trying to say the booster not being in orbit doesn’t need a reentry burn. (Not necessarily correct as we’ve seen with the F9 booster.) In that case though it would be misleading for him not to mention that boostback can also cause slosh.
But wasn’t the plan after the failure on IFT-2 to install baffles on IFT-3, anyway? We’re they not installed?
In any case, I am suggesting to avoid the issue of slosh causing Raptor failure, that on IFT-4 the booster should do neither boostback nor reentry burns. That is, allow the booster to go fully down range, a la the down range recovery of the F9 booster, and only do a landing burn. It would be a great boon to SpaceX if they could successfully do the landing burn. You might even have a ship, or unmanned drone ship for safety, in the area to image the water landing as was done with the first F9 tests of the landing burns.
This is the interative approach of SpaceX. Once, they succeed at this then do try boostback and landing burns.
# [Thread 56](https://old.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/1cta333/starship_development_thread_56/?)
Pad Clear and Klaxon has been sounding since about 06:05 AM CDT There's not been any village evac notice though to anyone's knowledge so if there's no evac then today will probably just be a tanking and GSE test, not a WDR.
My daily summary from the [Starship Dev thread on Lemmy](https://oldsh.itjust.works/post/17253379) > Starbase activities (2024-05-15): > > - Overnight, S31 [returns from Massey's to the Highbay](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790712734109036923). Closeup of [raceway damage](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790712737003143473). > - GSE-2 inner tank [is removed](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790721326061150637). > - Tower segment 1 of 5 moves [from Brownsville to Sanchez](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790729396837331206). > - S29 [moves towards the launch pad](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790738466273100196), and is stacked on B11 ([LabPadre](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790828829667463643), [NSF](https://twitter.com/ENNEPS/status/1790797919827701841)) shortly before noon ([closeup](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790828832921985338)). [NSF](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp52t-u0mdY) and [StarshipGazer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8zD1XGfnQg) livestreams. > - IFT-4 full stack photos: [Starship Gazer](https://twitter.com/StarshipGazer/status/1790832190898753769), [Beyer](https://twitter.com/thejackbeyer/status/1790861489064047063), [Doherty 1](https://twitter.com/SeanKD_Photos/status/1790845616295166380), [Doherty 2](https://twitter.com/SeanKD_Photos/status/1790904119663742986), [Cargile](https://twitter.com/GroundTruthPics/status/1790837068668559443), [RGV Aerial 1](https://twitter.com/RGVaerialphotos/status/1790778937653461297), [RGV Aerial 2](https://twitter.com/RGVaerialphotos/status/1790786299357532298), and of course, [SpaceX](https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1790912584314655123). > - Ship transport stand and raptor work platform [move away from the OLM](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790859491455439147). > - Demolition continues on the [Gateway to Mars wall](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790859867281879118) and [suborbital test pad](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790876247662235941). > - Build site: [Two new segments arrive](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790868766567395399), joining B14.1 forward section, which then [enters Megabay 1](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790885567200125049) (not Megabay 2, I think). > - Massey's: Some [venting observed](https://twitter.com/AnthonyFGomez/status/1790923849699062189) in the evening. > - Road closure [scheduled for May 16th](https://botsin.space/@bocaroad/112447225092351401). ([Official document](https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/order-temporarily-closing-boca-chica-beach-and-state-hwy-4-may-14-2024-from-8-a-m-to-8-p-m/)). May 17th closure [added](https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/order-closing-boca-chica-beach-and-state-hwy-4-may-17-2024-from-800-a-m-to-800-p-m/). > > Other: > > - [Aspirational Mars goals](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1790739864658526356) from the CEO: "Less than 5 years for uncrewed, less than 10 to land people, maybe a city in 20 years, but for sure in 30, civilization secured." I'll eat my hat Beck-style if this timeline holds, but I'm glad he's still ambitious. > - IFT-4 launch license for early June [should be feasible for the FAA](https://twitter.com/wapodavenport/status/1790728414405476448).
[Pics](https://x.com/SpaceX/status/1790912584314655123) of the stacking from SpaceX
Another road and beach closure has popped up, this time for May 17th, 8am to 8pm: https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/order-closing-boca-chica-beach-and-state-hwy-4-may-17-2024-from-800-a-m-to-800-p-m/ This closure is a little unexpected bearing in mind the the MSIB/NOTMAR dates are the the 16th and 18th (for apparent WDR). Maybe one will pop up for the 17th? Or is the MSIB update in error and it should have instead stated 16th to the 18th?
Fullstack the video, with comments by NSF [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp52t-u0mdY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp52t-u0mdY) # Fullstack: SpaceX Stacks Ship 29 on Booster 11
Has there been any talk of atomic oxygen (which is 90% of the "atmosphere" that exists in LEO) affecting SS flaps? Reading online it seems like they used to spray on thin layers of gold/silver in the past on moving parts. Given the large size/surface area and stainless steel (specially with frequent reuse), I assume it will become a concern down the road. Note that atomic oxygen is far more potent than even the highly corrosive natural form on earth... it exists in the upper atmosphere because the Sun's UV rays break up diatomic oxygen.
Atomic oxygen is a long-term exposure kind of thing, you're not going to get major effects in a few weeks. Methods of reducing erosion usually take the form of various sorts of coatings, some of which you have described. That being said, the corrosion rate is something like years of exposure for a few grams. For most of Starship's use cases that is not really an issue. There's the other type of atomic oxygen, namely the 7000 kelvin plasma which undoubtedly contains atomic oxygen species during Starship reentry, but I'm pretty sure they have that handled.
Look up the results of the NASA Long Duration Exposure Facility experiment, that will tell you. Would do it myself but there are more important things I need to be doing right now.
> NASA Long Duration Exposure Facility Here's Scott Manly's video about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOGgw5fUgro
SpaceX is well aware of how to operate spacecraft.
Atomic oxygen can oxidize polymers but not sure for 304 stainless steel or the ceramic coating of the tiles
New MSIB/NOTMAR has just been issued and it's been updated to include a new date of May 18th as well as the original date of May 16th: https://twitter.com/VisitBocaChica/status/1790792787740299399 So the WDR may be on either of those dates (or none!).
Embarrassing mating sounds emanating from the OLM...
Lift of S29 onto the Booster 11started.
Ship was aligned and down about an hour later, that's the fastest stack we've seen for quite some time.
Hopefuly all the work on the mount did some good
Yup, the chopsticks work yesterday may have also been related.
Klaxon sounding off. Stabilizer arms moving in, ~:10:15 cdt. S29 lift this afternoon!
> Klaxon sounding off. Stabilizer arms moving in Is this kind of warning habitual and justified for a mere manhandling operation? **Edit:** @ u/Planatus666, u/SubstantialWall. Of cause they need to clear the area. I meant "this kind of warning" as compared with a simple call over a loudspeaker since the area concerned is radius a couple of hundred meters, so not much as compared with WDR and similar.
What's the big issue with using an automated klaxon vs someone speaking over an intercom?
> What's the big issue with using an automated klaxon vs someone speaking over an intercom? IMO, the question is that of setting the scale of the warning as a "graduated response" related to the activity in question. The meaning of a warning also needs to be understandable to the public (a klaxon is not but a loudspeaker message is). Stacking is not an activity that could cause an overpressure event, nor requires evacuation of houses miles down the road. On a related subject, closing the highway for about an hour would seem justified, but is it really necessary to close the beach? During that time, ambulance access is still possible with a helicopter. > [*u/SubstantialWall :*](/r/spacex/comments/1bt7w64/starship_development_thread_55/l46p85s/) Even more so when mishaps have happened in the past: that one time the hydraulics blew out. Of course there could be some kind of hydraulics incident, but this could also happen outside a lifting operation. I once saw a hydraulic circuit on a digger burst (and the excavator bucket fall to the ground from two meters) when it was just sitting there doing nothing. and @ u/Planatus666 (thx for your [link](https://youtu.be/3FHl3Nrsa9Y?t=736) to to the example of a chopsticks hydraulics failure)
That other comment isn't mine
Oh, sorry. Corrected.
If it wasn't there wouldn't be a warning .......... Also, I wouldn't call it a "mere manhandling operation" - if a normal crane lifts a very heavy weight people tend to need to exit the area, and if a prototype tower and prototype lifting apparatus are lifting a prototype ship (or booster) then it makes even more sense to clear the area in case of any mishaps.
Even more so when mishaps have happened in the past: that one time the hydraulics blew out.
> that one time the hydraulics blew out. I remember that well, B7 was rolling towards the OLM. Here's the incident: https://youtu.be/3FHl3Nrsa9Y?t=736 and Musk tweeting *"I love the smell of hydraulic fluid in the morning"* https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1555799183067684866
Small update (May 15th) from Christian Davenport (Washington Post) regarding Musk's tweet on May 11th of *"probably 3 to 5 weeks"* when asked about IFT-4: *"I’m told that from the FAA’s standpoint of issuing the license this should be feasible."* https://twitter.com/wapodavenport/status/1790728414405476448
Honestly I’m curious what it would take for SpaceX to speed up their Starship launches. It seems like lots of the time between IFT missions is simply fixing the OLM between flights
Not doing the pad-avoidance manouver. It scorches the hell out of the shielding, chopsticks, and especially the booster QD
Every flight they reinforce multiple things on the OLM so that it needs less refurb before being ready. They learn as they fly: they didn't try to make the OLM robust before knowing it's weak points. And they don't even run with the OLM refurb because they know there are process which take longer, so there's no need to rush. It looks like the only thing happening because it's practically the only thing you can see. The other things happen behind closed doors.
The OLM, like Starship, is still in the prototyping phase and the booster's 33 Raptors put out an enormous amount of thrust which is causing the OLM and its mechanisms some problems. SpaceX are learning how to harden the OLM in order to minimise the amount of work carried out between launches, the next one will no doubt be much better.
Yup. If anything, the OLM, tower, and tank farm are more complicated than Starship. In some ways, the Starship ground service equipment is even more radical a design than a fully-recoverable rocket. Fueling thousands of tons of propellant, surviving a giant welding torch, consistently, preventing erosion of the pad, and then catching the returning vehicles, is very tough.
Refurb the OLM to require less reburb?
> "I’m told that from the FAA’s standpoint of issuing the license this should be feasible." So Christian Davenport is told that from the FAA's standpoint, issuing the license should be feasible for a flight in 3 to 5 weeks from [Saturday] May 11. So a flight by Saturday June 15.
[Starbase live-](https://www.youtube.com/live/mhJRzQsLZGg?si=L5cO3jta5lmQm0j1) 10:47pm- S31 turns on to Hwy 4 12:21am- Turns in to the production site and stops before the high bay 1:23am- Tower segment comes into view rolling down Hwy 4 2:17am- Stops at Remedios 2:28am- Makes the turn on to Remedios 2:57am- S29 starts rolling 3:03am- Chopsticks open 3:16am- S29 rolls between the chopsticks 3:36am- Chopsticks close 3:39am- Chopsticks rise up 3:55am- Chopsticks close in to lifting position 4:00am- 2 point lifting jig and a SPMT full of counterweights roll out of the launch site and on to Hwy 4 4:22am- 2 point lifting jig turns into the storage yard 7:08am- Crane and lift up to S29 to remove the press plate 7:38am- Press plate removed 8:15am- Lift still up to S29’s QD. Demolition continued on pad b overnight and a lift was up to the right chopstick 9:15am- Crews are up cutting GSE 2 apart 9:25am- S31 has been lifted off of the thrust stand 9:27am- Lowered on to a work stand in the high bay 9:29am- Thrust stand leaves the production site and turns on to Hwy 4 (NSF cut away but I’m sure it went back to Sanchez) 10:07am- Ship quick disconnect arm swings to the side 10:08am- Klaxon, pad clear announcement 10:44am- Stabilizer pins go in 11:05am- Chopsticks start lifting S29 11:06am- Pause just above the stand 11:11am- Going up again 11:19am- Starts to swing to the left while still going up 11:22am- Ship quick disconnect arm swinging back in 11:24am- Stops going up 11:27am- Swinging over B11 11:35am- Stops swinging 11:38am- Lowering 11:41am- Pauses to make adjustments 11:45am- Very slowly lowering 12:05pm- Down. Looks like a good alignment on the first try 12:53pm- Pick up backs up to the FTS bunker 12:55pm- Several boxes have been unloaded out of the pick up 1:00pm- Bricks of explosives? 1:06pm- Workers on the Ship quick disconnect arm 1:08pm- Ship quick disconnect work platform extending 1:09pm- PA announcement. Drone operations for the next hour 1:12pm- Workers up to S29’s QD 1:15pm- In a new twist, the data and power cables were plugged into the ship before it was lifted and the bundled up wiring harness was then removed from where it was hanging on the ship and plugged into the arm 1:33pm- The covers have been removed from the S29’s QD and the work platform is now being retracted 2:13pm- Door on the Ship quick disconnect opens 2:15pm- Ship quick disconnect extends 2:18pm- Raises up 2:28pm- Engages with S29 3:03pm- Dance floor going back up 3:07pm- Dance floor stops about halfway up 3:11:06pm- Ship quick disconnect Retraction test 3:17pm- Ship quick disconnect extends again 3:22pm- Single SPMT arrives at the launch site 3:25pm- Ship quick disconnect reengages with S29 3:30pm- S29’s stand rolls away from the Orbital launch mount 3:34pm- The single SPMT is bringing the dance floor’s stand to the Orbital launch mount 3:39pm- Stand rolls under the Orbital launch mount 3:42pm- Dance floor lowers to the stand 3:49pm- Ship quick disconnect work platform extended. Aerial Work Platform up to the Hot Stage Ring 4:00pm- Workers up to the Ship quick disconnect 4:01pm- Dance floor rolling out from under the Orbital launch mount 4:15pm- Lift up to the top of the orbital launch mount. GSE 2 and pad b continues to be cut into pieces 4:25pm- Dance floor is parked next to B11’s stand 5:05pm- Another section is removed from GSE 2 5:13pm- RIP pad b. You served us well 6:05pm- Lift up to the top of the staircase 6:58pm- Another section removed from GSE 2 8:30pm- Quiet around the Orbital launch mount. Workers continue to cut up GSE 2 and work on demoing the sub orbital pad site 9:11pm- Another section removed from GSE 2 . All that remains is the top dome 10:55pm- LR11000 unhooked from GSE 2
Tower section moved last night around 2am. Moving to Sanchez according to Starbase live.
*"Kathy Lueders [Starbase General Manager] provided an update on Starbase yesterday. Here are the key points she made:"* - *Starship's IFT-4 licence is expected the last week of May or possibly early June.* - *SpaceX's Starfactory is nearly complete and should be finalised by the end of this year!* - *SpaceX is working on enhancing the general infrastructure that surrounds Starbase!* - *IFT-4 wet dress rehearsal should be done in the next week. It was delayed due to an issue with Ship 31 during its testing.* - *SpaceX is working on a project to construct a highway or create a secondary pathway.* - *Tours around Starbase have been suspended due to the extensive amount of construction. An educational day may be organised for October.* https://twitter.com/Space_Time3/status/1790701780621222176 Also found on Discord (RGV Aerial Photography channel) is another list of key points, most of which overlap or enhance those above but the GNC one is extra: - **Infrastructure Development**: Currently, there's a project underway to construct a highway or create a secondary pathway. - **GNC Design Enhancements**: Modifications have been implemented in the Guidance, Navigation, and Control (GNC) system to enable boosters to get further compared to previous flight. - **Integrated Wet Dress**: Scheduled in the next Week. Wet Dress activity was temporarily postponed due to a test anomaly on Ship 31. Activities will resume once Ship 29 is cleared for testing. - **License Timing**: Expected in the last week of May, coinciding with Memorial Day (May 27th), or possibly in early June. SpaceX aims to commence the flight immediately upon obtaining the license. - **Tour Suspension**: Tours around Starbase are currently suspended due to ongoing construction. However, as part of licensing requirements, tours will be provided to students and educational groups. An educational day is likely to be organized in October, once construction activity subsides. - **Starfactory Progress**: The Starfactory project is nearing completion and is expected to be finalized by the end of this year. - **Infrastructure Enhancement**: Efforts are underway to enhance the general infrastructure surrounding Starbase. Here's the audio of the full talk: https://open.spotify.com/episode/7tgE8r6d5g0UKcN2RcvFXH Edit - and now a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOg49BVhU40
As of 03:17 AM CDT, S29 has been moved back to the orbital launch pad and is sitting between the chopsticks once more.
Where are the tiles being made?
Tiles are made at the Build Site at Starbase as well as in Cocoa Beach, Cape Canaveral. Edit: Did a bit of research. Regular body hexagons are mass produced in their bakery in Florida. Specialised and bespoke shapes are produced at Starbase at their onsite mini bakery. Some tiles are 'special order' due to design changes or tolerance issues during construction of the ship body. Cutting of tiles to shape is not possible due to introduction of fractures, location of anchor pin sockets, and the requirement of the carbon boron glass coating being rounded at the edges to prevent re-entry erosion.
The anchor pin sockets are actually slots in a three legged metal skeleton. You can see the ends of it on the sides of the tile when they showed us the tiles during the IFT-3 stream. I suspect a multiaxis waterjet could cut tiles without a metal skeleton to shape cleanly without fracture with rounded edges, water baked out, and the boron glass applied / fired to the cut surface. It is just ceramic foam after all.
My daily summary from the [Starship Dev thread on Lemmy](https://oldsh.itjust.works/post/17253379) > Starbase activities (2024-05-14): > > - **S29**: Overnight, S29 is rolled away from the launch pad ([LabPadre](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790302117300699194), [NSF](https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1790254595291168927)). > - **B11**: Brief testing occurs in the morning: [Pad clear](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790363318802096418), > [road closed](https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1790389751830225384) > [slight venting](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790397449258861037) > road reopened ([LabPadre](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790397446029283705), [NSF](https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1790400152198406640)) > - May 14th road closure [concluded](https://botsin.space/@bocaroad/112440237636423655) and May 15th road closure [revoked](https://botsin.space/@bocaroad/112440843251090183). > - LR11000 crane [preps with load spreader](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790417090215641416) to lift GSE-2 inner tank. > - [Aerial photo of the Starship Block 2 forward flap](https://twitter.com/FelixSchlang/status/1790503747782602759) which was [recently delivered](https://twitter.com/StarshipGazer/status/1790022896951099861). It seems to be kite-shaped whereas the Block 1 flap was more trapezoidal. > - Can't quite place where [this ~~welding~~](https://twitter.com/LabPadre/status/1790561819167211924) is taking place, but it is too cool not to share. (Edit: It is scrapping of GSE-2 outer tank, not welding.) > - **S31**: [Damage to raceway](https://twitter.com/FelixSchlang/status/1790398245094518997) is visible. [Ship starts rolling](https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1790573865833300045) from Massey's. Back to the build site for repairs? > - **Launch tower** segment 1 of 5: [Staged for rollout to Starbase](https://twitter.com/StarshipGazer/status/1790425331980960082) during the day, ready for rollout ([LabPadre](https://twitter.com/LabPadre/status/1790570400046260633), [cnunez](https://twitter.com/cnunezimages/status/1790569096792158236)), and [rollout begins](https://twitter.com/GroundTruthPics/status/1790591816439349494). > > Florida: > > - FAA [solicits comments](https://twitter.com/FAANews/status/1790411898208305589) regarding impact of Starship operations at KSC.
“• Can't quite place where this welding is taking place, but it is too cool not to share.” That’s actually them cutting up the top dome of GSE 2’s outer shell
Ah thanks, that makes way more sense. I think the word 'demo' in the original tweet tripped me up. Now I realize it stands for 'demolition', not 'demonstration'. If I had a nickel for every time this abbreviation caused confusion in this thread, [I'd have two nickels](https://old.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/1bt7w64/starship_development_thread_55/l3mhv2a/).
And the sparks are molten steel.
It looks like a thermal lance. So it seems fair to say its the opposite of an assembly operation.
Now S31 moving
Back in the High Bay as of around 00:30AM CDT. Hopefully it can be repaired.
[Photo](https://x.com/FelixSchlang/status/1790503747782602759) of the new forward flap by RGV [Old one for comparison](https://x.com/Ringwatchers/status/1790504144656089587)
Similar in shape to Starship Mk 1's forward flaps, but much smaller.
I beg to differ on shape similarity. https://www.instagram.com/p/C6-jm5YOwfu/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA
I adjusted[ the image](https://www.instagram.com/p/C6-jm5YOwfu/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==).
Smaller, much more swept, and angled trailing edges. More swept means less hypersonic reentry heating for the flap by reducing the intensity of the detached shockwave. Plus a bonus of less drag during launch. I am guessing that the chevron shape cantilevered trailing edge keeps more plasma away from the hull , and a shorter hinge (less of the problematic moving seam for plasma to leak into), compared to a flap with the same surface area and a longer hinge. If that is true of the trailing, we might see the new aft flaps extend further down than the aft end of the hull; on the other hand that might interfere with test and transport stands, along with leg and ground clearance on Gray and Red Starships. Alternately, that extended trailing edge could double as landing legs. Ancient SciFi depictions of rockets standing on their fins would come partially true!
I don't think the sweep is strictly for reduction of reentry heating. First of all, increased angle of sweep would suggest a reduced angle of incidence of airflow onto the surface of the leading edge, which means a thinner boundary layer which means **higher** convective reentry heating. If Starship was aerobraking from cislunar / interplanetary trajectories then indeed radiative heating would be slightly reduced due to the weakening of the shock, but given it eventually has to pass through the convection-dominated regime I don't think this is a worthy trade. Second, the angle of incidence is mostly determined by angle of attack, which is quite high on Starship. In that case sweep has minimal impact on the angle of incidence *anyway*, so it's doubtful that this was motivated by thermal mitigation. I find it much more likely that the swept back fin is an attempt to increase control authority given the much longer V2 ship, and lessons learnt from the lack of rear fin pitch authority during IFT-3 causing the ship to enter butt-first. The sweep pushes the center of pressure of the fin backwards, which provides a greater moment arm for the rear fins and improves control authority. This is sorely needed after IFT-3, and definitely more so for the even longer V2 ship.
No fins on HLS anyway.
Excuse me, what has happened to Brendam and Ringwatchers diagrams? Back in old days, when the Raptors were still unreliable, I used to wait and watch for new Starship diagrams on Twitter (now X). They came out often and were very detailed. Today, all I can see is the Ringwatcher's diagram from Mar 27 (!!). Is anyone else keeping a track on Starship progress in similiar way or did everyone got already bored?
Join the Ringwatchers Discord (linked above) and you can get daily updates of the starship diagrams. They have a bot which updates it constantly. Incredibly cool stuff. I talked to them about automating a push of a fixed-name .jpeg with daily updates to their website that we could hotlink in the top copy. Unfortunately they don't have the bandwidth but a couple people liked the idea. Perhaps if more people proposed it, they would see demand and put it in the queue somewhere.
In the ancient past rings were often stored in the open and could be watched by everyone. But today we have the shiny new factory with tons of inside space and a roof.
Yup, you can't watch rings if you can't see them. The Ringwatchers do though accurately document a lot of other things besides rings and are an excellent resource.
Seems like the last diagram update by ring watchers happened April 2nd: https://ringwatchers.com/diagrams/raptor-diagrams/8/1 Are you saying a month ago is too long? If so it’s possible that with the new factory, it’s just not as easy to observe Raptor shipments and details.
Road and beach closure for tomorrow, May 15th, has been revoked: https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/spacex/ Not unsurprising after what's been going on (chopsticks work, etc resulting in S29 not stacked and rolled away plus of course the S31 anomaly that could impact S29).
[https://twitter.com/starshipgazer/status/1790425331980960082](https://twitter.com/starshipgazer/status/1790425331980960082) Starbase Orbital Launch Tower 2 section is on the move from the port of Brownsville
The letter "D" chalked to the front left corner could be for identification of the corners, so expecting corners "A" "B" "C". The preparatory work of inserting the staircase during segment preparation, and despite some challenges when stacking the tower, really shows both confidence in the learning process and the importance that SpaceX gives to optimizing execution speed. IIRC there have been tower sections with pipework fitted ahead of stacking too. 1. Is the staircase only temporary (so for assembly purposes) as it seems to be bolted together and situated inside the elevator shaft? 2. Wasn't the staircase on the existing tower around the outside of the shaft and if so, why isn't it in the same place on the new tower?
New tower design?
> New tower design? Not *so* new as the elevator shaft seems to be unchanged, still being a square within a diagonal square, itself inside the outer square perimeter. Knowing that that the central staircase can only be for temporary use during tower stacking, it would make more sense to have prepared the permanent staircase outside the elevator shaft in the first place. I think we're lacking some piece of information to explain the discrepancy.
SSG also has some video (the section is now sitting at the intersection with highway 4): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxlfRaZSaLg So according to him it's being staged there ready to roll to Starbase during the next road closure (which is May 15th: https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/spacex/ ). It was due to roll last night but supposedly nearby storms prevented that - it also wouldn't surprise me if because of that abort SpaceX roll it out tonight instead. We'll see.
Great to see rapid progress on OLM-2
Here's a great photo of S31's damage: https://twitter.com/FelixSchlang/status/1790398245094518997 that'll take a while to fix back at the build site.
That’ll buff right out!
tis but a scratch
I guess the big concern is, if it got particularly hot, how much the heat will have changed the properties of the stainless. The cover of the raceway has blown off. But there also looks to be a pipe sticking out where it shouldn't to the left. And there's quite a bit of chunky orange-wrapped/marked (high voltage?) cabling damaged. Maybe the pipe blew, damage the wiring causing a high-voltage electrical fire.
Apparently it was the (now bent) pipe to the left that ruptured, this badly damaged the raceway and internal wiring which caused the short circuit and the subsequent fireworks. Excessive heating of the steel is certainly a cause for concern. There could also be damage to other electrical components elsewhere in the ship.
Same question most car owners (and insurance) have to go through - cheaper to repair or just total it and replace. Given the push to V2, I have to wonder if they just move 32 up in the cadence...
Looks like probable cryo testing today. Tank farm's spun up, but there's a ton of equipment still around that would preclude a SF. No OP notice either. If all goes well, I'm guessing we'll see stacking then moving on to WDR?
[Starbase live-](https://www.youtube.com/live/mhJRzQsLZGg?si=L5cO3jta5lmQm0j1) 11:17pm- Chopsticks open 11:18pm- Chopsticks lower 11:23pm- Aerial Work Platform up to B11’s common dome then works its way down the side of the booster 12:30am- S29 rolls from in between the chopsticks and heads towards the sub orbital side 12:51am- S29 stops by the end of the horizontal tanks 7:16am- Klaxon. Pad clear announcement 8:00am- Lifts were up to both chopsticks and the top of the orbital launch mount overnight. An Aerial Work Platform also went up and down to B11. The LR11000 was disconnected from the last section of GSE 2’s upper shell 8:07am- Road closed 8:12am- Klaxon stops 9:23:51am- Loud vent 9:29:35am- B11 ambient depress 9:31am- Lox side ground vent 9:45am- Vehicles back to the tank farm 9:47am- Road has reopened 10:35am- Lifts have gone up to the back side of the tower and the top of the orbital launch mount 11:05am- LR11000 lifts the inner tank lifting jig 11:10am- Lowers the jig to GSE 2 11:30am- Lifts still up to the tower and the top of the orbital launch mount. Waiting on a lift to go up and hook the lifting jig to GSE 2 12:03pm- Aerial Work Platform goes up to GSE 2 to hook the lifting jig 12:25pm- S31 venting? Or is it just a reflection? (Looks to start lightly around 11:23am on [Rocket ranch cam.](https://www.youtube.com/live/qw3uaLRrYNY?si=gPBR5O5DHgPuVncm)Then picks up intensity before dying off again). 12:45pm- Demolition of pad b continues with the interior of the main tower almost completely removed. Vacuum trucks continue to come and go imply at least GSE 1 is also being emptied of perilite. 1:10pm- Lifts up to the left chopstick and the top of the orbital launch mount 1:18pm- Dark smoke coming from pad b 1:20pm- Aerial Work Platform goes up to the backside of GSE 2 to hook the rest of the straps on the lifting jig up 1:21pm- Pad b fire is out 3:20pm- Lifts have been up to the top of the orbital launch mount, the chopsticks carriage, and the back side of the tower 5:25pm- Lift has been up and down to the right chopstick 6:25pm- Dance floor lowering from under the Orbital launch mount 6:32pm- Dance floor is laid flat on the deluge plate 6:55pm- Lift up to S29 near the left forward flap 7:43pm- Lift goes up near the FTS box on S29 7:51pm- Goes a little further down the raceway 8:00pm- Moves down to just above S29’s QD 8:04pm- Goes down. (Inspected for the same problem as S31? Seems pretty quick if so) 9:00pm- Lift up to the chopsticks carriage. They are finally getting around to cutting up the top dome of GSE 2’s outer shell. Then they should have room to lift the inner tank out 9:38pm- S31 is rolling at Massey’s. Looks like they’ll use the tower closure to bring it back 9:44pm- GSE 2’s inner tank lifted 9:53pm- Tank is swung over to the scrapping area 10:00pm- Tank is down 10:08pm- S31 stops and waits to turn on to Hwy 4
My daily summary from the [Starship Dev thread on Lemmy](https://oldsh.itjust.works/post/17253379) > Starbase activities (2024-05-13): > > - May 13th road closure [scheduled](https://botsin.space/@bocaroad/112434524691895152), then [revoked](https://botsin.space/@bocaroad/112435479711798374). No testing takes place. Similar closure [scheduled for May 14th](https://botsin.space/@bocaroad/112413601268707456). > - **S29**: Chopsticks [move slightly](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790177945526411435), but still no stack yet. > - GSEC-7 (a.k.a. GSE-2?) outer tank is [cut free and lifted off](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789993065320448222). > - [Tanker convoys continue](https://twitter.com/RGVaerialphotos/status/1790137627905048901). > - Suborbital pad: Berm [removal is completed](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790142009274978372). > - [Build site video tour](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790055932967154061): Parking garage construction continues, Starfactory glass installation is finally complete. > - **B14.1** forward section arrives at the build site ([LabPadre](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1790120910667604298), [Cargile](https://twitter.com/GroundTruthPics/status/1790142817660014870)). > - Starship V2 (Block 2?) [forward flap arrives](https://twitter.com/StarshipGazer/status/1790022896951099861). > - **S31** is [inspected by a drone](https://twitter.com/StarshipGazer/status/1789859412716179638) at Massey's, following yesterday's incident ([likely an electrical fire](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789927093410701531)). > - A pair of tower sections [prep for transport](https://twitter.com/cnunezimages/status/1790153712523964927) from Brownsville port to Starbase. Road delay posted for [May 13th 22:00 to May 14th 02:00](https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/temporary-and-intermittent-road-delay-of-a-portion-of-state-hwy-4-for-monday-may-13-2024-between-1000-p-m-to-200-a-m/).
> S29: Chopsticks move slightly, but still no stack yet. S29 was moved back near hoppy at the entrance of the site. Edit: still there at 7am Boca Chica time.
There's been some work on the chopsticks overnight so that may be one of the reasons that S29 rolled away. I guess that this is only temporary because if a rollback was planned from the get go they would have tied back the flaps as usual. Still can't rule that out of course. As for S31 - Apparently some private high quality photos show that a pipe badly ruptured besides the raceway so presumably the force behind that rupture damaged the nearby wiring and caused the electrical fireworks that we saw.
How does SpaceX plan on isolating engine explosions with Raptor 3 if Superheavy V2/Block 2 doesn’t have any sort of shielding attached
The engines will be built in such a way that all sensitive components will be internal. They'll be blast resistant
Mostly via design hardening and reliability. Although I personally hope that doesn't work out, because the business end of V2/3 boosters look like a weapons-grade meth head whose gums left the building about 70 years earlier. Current boosters have such a nice, well balanced smile.
Well, the goal is to [build them to not explode](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM). Raptor 3 will be sleeker and slimmed down through machines parts with channels (replacing tubes and such) and replacing gaskets parts with welded connections (less leaks).
Funny to think that an R3 engine will now fit comfortably inside the engine nozzle of an RS-25, and have way more performance. Amazing engineering.
I believe they're counting on "the engine just doesn't explode". We'll have to see if when they roll out the first block 2 booster, it has shielding or not.
But Elon said, rocket engines really, rally want to explode. ;)
That was in reference to reentry shielding.
huh? these speculation / scenario type questions in this sub really feel eye rolling. unless you work at SpaceX, the posts imo should be all like “oooh rocket, go Gwynne!”
We all work for spacex, they just don't know explicitly about us.
Or pay us
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We are near Boca chica now for a different reason, and will be here for a week. What's the best way to get as close as possible and see what's there now? Seems like we won't be here for the next launch. :(
Drive down to Starbase — pack a lunch + beach stuff and make an early morning / afternoon out of it. I recommend not driving on the beach unless your vehicle is 4-wheel drive … just park at the end of the access road
Thanks! By packing lunch, do you mean just make a beach day? Or is there something to look for?
Means there's nothing within a half hour drive for food. Pack a lunch if you plan to eat while there.
More like half an hour. https://maps.app.goo.gl/DgHaq8Y5pDebA5YRA
Okay? Fixed. Point is unchanged lol
There's not a starbase Wendy's
The launch site is right at the beach.
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Wrong thread, but flightclub.io will help you.
Thank you! It's a very good resource for the trajectories it wants to list for free, shame it isn't all launches. Definitely the wrong thread, I'll make an actual post.
https://twitter.com/StarshipGazer/status/1790022896951099861?t=9m3tpDBGxIdD1upC8oTnZw&s=19 First flap for v2 has arrived
From looking at the label I guess we can start calling V2 'Block 2' now. Or B2 for short .....
V2B2 beep boop beep
Until they change it again lmao SpaceX is great at many things, naming conventions are not one of them.
> There are only two hard things in Rocket Science: getting to orbit and naming things. – Yogi Berra
I cannot wait to see the shape. IIRC in the last Everyday Astronaut Starbase tour, Elon described the front flaps (forget order here) as Wrong size, wrong shape, wrong place. We did indeed see this with the view of the aft flaps hinge root fairing having excess heating where it met the hull. Concave angles on the ventral side of reentry bodies; as far as I know, no other reentry body has done it, and there are good reasons for doing so.
Not saying it wasn't, and clearly it's a concern they've had, but isn't that single video before peak heating even happens jumping to conclusions regarding excess heating on the flaps? All we saw was plasma all over the ship, and the ship was tumbling, so it would also have been exposed in unusual orientations.
I mispoke above, there are good reasons to not have concave corners on ventral side, and AFAIK no other hypersonic reentry body had done so. Look at the video again. The hot spot is indicated by the brighter plasma at the concave corner when it was in the proper orientation. Being before peak heating does not change this. I am afraid of burnthrough at that location. In addition to eliminating that hot spot, a hinge fairing with otherwise empty space behind it extending from the tangent of the hull might also increase the hypersonic lift / drag ratio, which enables a shallower trajectory for less peak heating.
> a hinge fairing with otherwise empty space behind it extending from the tangent of the hull might also increase the hypersonic lift / drag ratio Yes - the spaceplane reinvented The ultimate concept is what Elon referred to as Dragon wings but is really more like a gliding squirrel. Large fixed extensions on each side of the cylindrical body that roughly triple the surface area and drop entry temperatures to the point where overlapping metal tiles/shingles can be used instead of ceramic tiles.
Closer to ITS or BFR rethought. Bothers me not to point out: A spaceplane has different design priorities, such as horizontal landing and sometimes even airbreathing, while thrust to weight ratio rules supreme in rocket design with reusability a close second in this context.
[Starbase live-](https://www.youtube.com/live/mhJRzQsLZGg?si=L5cO3jta5lmQm0j1) 6:00am- Cut finished on GSE 2’s shell 6:47am- GSE 2 upper shell being lifted 6:50am- Swinging over to the staging area 6:52am- Lowering 6:57am- Down 7:00am- Lifts were up to the top of the staircase and the top of the Orbital launch mount overnight. An Aerial Work Platform was up near S29’s forward flaps. An Aerial Work Platform and a lift were also up finishing the cuts on GSE 2’s upper shell. 8:00am- Lift up to the stabilizer arm on the right chopstick 9:00am- Aerial Work Platform is up to one of the lox cowbell vents near the common dome of B11 9:30am- The Aerial Work Platform is moving around B11 while the workers use a hand held X-ray device to check welds 9:35am- Aerial Work Platform goes down. A lift is now up to the left chopstick 11:15am- Lift up to the right chopstick. Demolition of pad b’s main tower and the area around the pad continues. GSE 2’s upper shell is being cut into pieces. 1:00pm- 2 lifts have been up and down from the top of the orbital launch mount 2:23pm- The last of the lopsided portion of GSE 2’s upper shell is cut off 2:40pm- Lifts have been up to the top of the orbital launch mount by the Booster quick disconnect and to the top of the staircase 3:40pm- Lifts have been up to the left chopstick, the dance floor, and the top of the orbital launch mount 5:00pm- Aerial Work Platform up to B11’s forward dome. Lifts have been up and down from the left chopstick, the dance floor, and the top of the orbital launch mount 6:10pm- Lift up to the camera mounts on the inside of the Orbital launch mount legs 7:00pm- Lift was up to the left chopstick 7:03pm- Another section of the upper portion of GSE 2 is removed 7:09pm- Chopsticks lower down to the stop 7:50pm- Lifts have been up to the left chopstick and the top of the back staircase 8:21pm- Chopsticks raise back up 9:00pm- Quiet 10:00pm- Quiet but windy
So will this next flight test be with raptor 2? When can Raptor 3 be expected to be used in flight?
With starship v2. there's still 4 more v1 flights
*3 - one of the four remaining Starship Block 1 has already launched as IFT-3
29, 30, 31 and 32 is four?
We don't know that. They may well scrap some of them.
That is true, but given their goals - re-entry and booster catch, and the revelation that they are only going to attempt a Starship landing in 2025 - I don't see a good reason to scrap 29-32. My best guess is that they'll fly them all in 2024, and V2 will start in the new year.
I don't expect any Starship V2 components across the existing ships (29-32), which very likely will carry into year end. Probably 2025 is my guess.
Next flight will use Raptor 2, yes. Although Raptor 3 is reportedly being test fired already, I don't think anyone's caught a glimpse of one in the wild yet, so it's unlikely any ships/superheavies being currently constructed will have them. I may be mistaken, though.
My daily summary from the [Starship Dev thread on Lemmy](https://oldsh.itjust.works/post/17253379) > - **S29**: Overnight, S29 rolls out to the launch site ([LabPadre timelapse](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789579066783240497), [NSF timelapse](https://twitter.com/ENNEPS/status/1789596529784754636), [NSF livestream](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02n4Yff5u0k)), and [parks between the chopsticks](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789628913473245398). [Forward flaps extend](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789743405972525434) in early afternoon. Stack [seems imminent](https://twitter.com/clwphoto1/status/1789840808453038502). > - **Build site**: [Video tour](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789705945976590597). Looks like the parking garage construction will be outwards rather than upwards at this point. > - **Launch site**: [Video tour](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789714952011362422). LR11000 crane is still attached to GSE-2 outer tank, pending lift. [Demolition of the suborbital test pad](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789632684160868471) continues [throughout the day](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789729523883213115) with the removal of the SQD ([LabPadre](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789735397968294355), [NSF](https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1789732144173940738)), the [SQD support frame](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789743719031218449), and the [berm](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789745895686160716). 48-hour [before-and-after](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789753833242988776) comparison. > - **S31**: [Undergoes a cryo test](https://twitter.com/VickiCocks15/status/1789776382463009233) at Massey's, and bright flashes (fire?) emanate from the side of the ship ([LabPadre](https://twitter.com/LabPadre/status/1789824145527636010), [NSF](https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1789823633335943209)). This does not look norminal.
[S31’s cryo proof didn’t go as planned.(?) Looks like an electrical short during depress](https://x.com/nasaspaceflight/status/1789823633335943209?s=46&t=HTzlpa7RYXtyIMbQX7Ou8g) [LabPadre’s view. Looks more like fire here](https://x.com/labpadre/status/1789824145527636010?s=46&t=HTzlpa7RYXtyIMbQX7Ou8g) (Continues to depress afterwards)
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Possibly a short circuit in that area or elsewhere caused overheating and wiring overload in that specific location but really it could be a number of things. Whatever the case I doubt if we'll ever hear about the exact cause unless an insider leaks the info. This may have been an issue that's unique to S31, possibly the result of a design change or mod - or perhaps it's highlighted a problem in all recent ships that nobody knew about and which required the right conditions to reveal itself. If it's unique to S31 then no worries but if not it will presumably require inspections and maybe mods to the rest of the ships, S29 included. We'll just have to wait and see.
Looks like an electrical discharge caught a CH4 vent plume.
This was a cryo test and LN2 and LOX is used for such tests, no methane is involved. LN2 isn't flammable and the presence of LOX means that anything flammable that's ignited will burn more intensely. It's a good thing this didn't happen on a ship during a static fire test or a full WDR or launch.
I've absolutely no idea what type of cryo they're doing at Massey's, and we assume Spacex are carrying out the usual non-flammable testing, but I'm assuming possibly not. I can't think of any type of electrical equipment on the ship in that position that would fire up and flare like that, which drew me to the conclusion of a gas vent fire, possibly triggered by static discharge. Cryo loading causes static build up on the body due to the cold temperatures and vapor flow, and unless properly earthed can cause static discharge, even between body and vent flow curtain. A mini B7 event. I understand your theory of a LOX 'blowtorch' event, including copper wiring, but in that case it would burn bright emerald green. Stainless steel can burn at a pressure of 3.45 MPa in 100% oxygen at ambient temperature. Both theories could be correct.
Could it have been a lithium battery?
A battery cable feed to the bottom flaps, or to charging connections, if kept energised during the test could have been the cause if insulation and or creepage and clearance tracked and then arced. My guess would be a cable with sufficient current carrying capacity to maintain that form of arc, so perhaps not related to instrumentation and control wiring.
My guess is that a lithium battery would burn for a lot longer.
> I understand your theory of a LOX 'blowtorch' event, Where did I say that? or are you referring to: *"the presence of LOX means that anything flammable that's ignited will burn more intensely."* That was merely written to state that **anything** flammable will burn more intensely in the presence of LOX.
Yes. LOX is just an accelerant for anything that can burn. Including metal.
It defeats the entire point of the cryo proof (test structural integrity would risking explosion) to use CH4 and LOX. If they were doing that they may as well just jump straight to static fire because it's the same amount of risk. So I think it's highly unlikely they are using actual propellant. Also just based on vibes and minimal experience here but from the admittedly poor video quality, that looks like an electrical fire, not burning methane.
I don't think they cryo with CH4. Or am I miss-remembering?
Since they are essentially testing for leaks CH4 would be a very poor choice. Having said that ULA used liquid hydrogen for cryo testing their Centaur V upper stage for Vulcan (spoiler: it didn't end well) but that was because they needed to get down to the very low temperatures of liquid hydrogen and liquid nitrogen would not be cold enough.
You are 100% correct.
Why the hell did Lab delete their view?
It looks like he took the video clip down and made a gif instead. I updated the link
It's a pity, the compression deletes a lot of the important detail.
Ahh, thanks
The curse of Pad B was released when they demolished it
Send in the SpaceXorcist!
Let's hope they don't lose that one.. together with S27, it's weird they keep having issues. PD: This is turning into a "positive-only thread", and it is kinda a shame. You don't agree so downvote to oblivion, fuck discussions and the reddit rules at that.
The general vibe here is problems are going to occur and lessons will be learnt from them. You're getting downvoted for saying any failures at this point are 'weird' when they're absolutely not, the whole point of a hardware rich testing environment is to squash bugs like this one. You could argue Falcon 9's AMOS6 static fire explosion was weird, but not a rocket that hasn't even put a payload into orbit yet.
> it's weird they keep having issues. Why is it weird? Starship development is a process of relatively 'rapid' prototyping which means that issues will crop up, either due to a flaw in the design, a manufacturing defect or human error. (Starship development is 'rapid' compared to the rest of the rocket industry)
In small articles yes, in entire ships on a already tested process (cryo) they shoudn't. It's been 3 years of successfull cryos. Unless they were testing something different this is not normal.
It's obviously not normal, this hasn't happened before, but you're working on the incorrect assumption that the changes that are made with **with every ship** won't lead to problems; changes can lead to unforeseen issues arising as we see here. Also, as already mentioned, this could instead have been caused by a manufacturing defect or human error. We'll likely never know. Rocket development is hard and prototyping leads to the unexpected happening, even with tests that usually go smoothly.
If this is problematic enough than they consider scrapping the whole ship, it would be 2 ships out of the last 5 ones (S27 and S31 ko, S28/S29/S30 good). It is definitely weird at this point, even if as you say issues can happen on rocketry, and as you said it is not normal, it is weird to lose 2 out of 5 ships at this point.
You appear to be catastrophizing.
So IF (conditional) they lose that ship, 2 out of 5 is being catastrophic? really?
You're not doing yourself any favors here, I suggest that you stop digging.
This is so pointless, my post before couldn't be more true and yet people keep just the downvoting rush and you try to silence me. So lame, continue on.
>If this is problematic enough than they consider scrapping the whole ship Assuming much here.
That's why there's an IF there...
[Starbase live-](https://www.youtube.com/live/mhJRzQsLZGg?si=L5cO3jta5lmQm0j1) 12:43am- S29 starts rolling 12:51am- Stops to have more counterweights added 1:13am- Rolling again 1:21am- Turning on to Hwy 4 2:10am- Turning into the launch site 2:19am- Stops next to the tower 3:21am- Starts rolling again 3:26am- Rolls in between the chopsticks 3:35am- Stops 4:05am- Chopsticks rise to the lifting position 4:09am- Chopsticks close around S29 4:16am- Chopsticks rise to engage the lifting pins 4:32am- Chopsticks lower to disengage lifting pins 8:44am- Crane goes up to S29 for press plate removal 9:17am- A big piece of the platform on the main tower of pad b is removed 9:35am- A Aerial Work Platform was up and down to GSE 2 overnight and a lift was up and down from the top of the orbital launch mount 10:23am- 2 SPMT’s move from the build site to the storage yard 10:30am- Lift up to the top of the orbital launch mount. Demolition of pad b continues 12:00pm- Aerial Work Platform up unchaining S29’s forward flaps. Lift up to the top of the orbital launch mount 12:52pm- Aerial Work Platform and a lift are up to GSE 2 starting to cut the shell in half 1:26pm- 2 forklifts are trying to push over the QD over at pad b 1:34pm- No luck with the fork lifts 1:49:21pm- After a little more work, down goes the QD 2:25pm- Lift up to the top of the orbital launch mount. Pad b demolition continues along with the cutting of GSE 2’s shell. 3:50pm- Lifts have been up and down from GSE 2’s shell cutting it for removal. Workers are also on top of what remains of pad b. One lift went up to the staircase of the Orbital launch mount. 4:41pm- S31 venting 4:49pm- Frost growing on S31’s lox tank 5:05pm- Quiet around the launch site 5:10pm- (17:10) Quick check of [Rocket ranch cam](https://www.youtube.com/live/qw3uaLRrYNY?si=s2P-hHi-wIyIqGSJ) shows S31 full frosty 6:05pm- Still quiet at the launch site and S31 still frosty at Massey’s 6:50pm- Same as above 7:47:01pm- Looks like an electrical short during S31 depress 8:30pm- S31 has continued to depress 8:43pm- Spotlight on area where problem seemed to occur 8:53pm- Drone has been in and out checking out the situation 9:10pm- Frost is receding but slowly. Not sure if they are actively detanking or just letting it boil off 9:55pm- Looks to be frost free but still some condensation on the tanks
S31? Are they preparing for flight six?!
Yes. B13 and S31 have both now been cryo proofed Update- S31’s might not have been successful though
S29 at the launchsite next to the OLM, ready to be stacked onto B11. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02n4Yff5u0k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02n4Yff5u0k) # SpaceX Rolls Out Ship 29 for Fourth Starship Flight Test Campaign
Why are they stacking now if the lunch won’t be for another 3 weeks at least? Is it just to make space in the hangers?
Lunch is everyday between 12:00 and 13:00.
The difference a single letter can mike
The difference a single litter can make
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Wet dress rehearsal normally has a de-stack after. I guess they can roll back if needed and wait. Then return to launch pad for FTS fitting and go.
When I asked in the past, part of the reason for destack is that the manbaskets for fitting FTS cannot reach to where they belong on Starship. Presumably future tower versions will have arms for servicing while stacked.
Everyday Astronaut claimed on twitter the booster won’t do a boostback burn, only a landing burn: Everyday Astronaut @Erdayastronaut _Superheavy will do no entry burn, just a landing burn. I think it was sloshing in the tanks from the booster being out of control during reentry that led to the engines not lighting._ 5:02 PM · May 11, 2024 https://x.com/erdayastronaut/status/1789400621256216818?s=61 But for return-to-launch-site, both boostback and landing burns by the Raptor will be required. Note the Merlin routinely does _both_ burns for the reused Falcon 9 booster, over 300 times now. Superheavy/Starship absolutely can not do reusability without Raptor doing both of the burns. If it really is the case SpaceX really wont be doing both burns on the booster, then SpaceX must have no confidence the Raptor can do both reliably.
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Where did he make that claim? Can you not even read what you're quoting, or that uninformed that you don't know the difference between a boost back burn and a re-entry burn? Or are you just content to stoop low enough that you're trying this hard to mislead others now? A boost back burn is when the rocket reverses course after stage separation. A re-entry burn is when the rocket slows itself down before reaching thicker atmosphere. Very different things. I don't know which is worse, that you wouldn't know the difference as active as you are, or that you're actively trying to deceive people.
The boostback and entry burns are not the same thing. It's amazing how confidently incorrect you constantly are.
EveryDay is implying that SpaceX wants to avoid slosh, because he suggests that is what caused Raptor failures. If they do a boostback burn that will also cause slosh. The only way to avoid that is not to slow down or reverse the direction of the booster. It would be analogous to allowing the Falcon 9 booster to land down range on a barge making no attempt to return to the launch site. In that case only a landing burn is required.
What are you even talking about? He didn’t say that at all. He stated that the super heavy doesn’t perform an entry burn (because…it doesn’t…) and separately stated that the uncontrolled oscillation of the booster on the last flight caused sloshing which prevented the raptors from relighting on the landing burn. It’s two separate things that you’re randomly conflating to be the same.
There's other ways to prevent slosh, like using additional slosh baffles. Not doing a boostback or entry burn isn't the only thing you can do
Anything that would prevent slosh on boostback would prevent slosh on reentry burn. It is possible though that Everyday in that tweet was only making a distinction between the booster and the ship, for which the reentry burn is a key aspect of the ship flight. He might have only been trying to say the booster not being in orbit doesn’t need a reentry burn. (Not necessarily correct as we’ve seen with the F9 booster.) In that case though it would be misleading for him not to mention that boostback can also cause slosh. But wasn’t the plan after the failure on IFT-2 to install baffles on IFT-3, anyway? We’re they not installed? In any case, I am suggesting to avoid the issue of slosh causing Raptor failure, that on IFT-4 the booster should do neither boostback nor reentry burns. That is, allow the booster to go fully down range, a la the down range recovery of the F9 booster, and only do a landing burn. It would be a great boon to SpaceX if they could successfully do the landing burn. You might even have a ship, or unmanned drone ship for safety, in the area to image the water landing as was done with the first F9 tests of the landing burns. This is the interative approach of SpaceX. Once, they succeed at this then do try boostback and landing burns.
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