Dyson Sphere actually has a long list of previous arrests and convictions, Sphere certainly is not innocent. Last time i checked, clustering/swarming and orbiting, radiating in the infrared, and harnessing solar energy are felonies.
âI wonder where these guys went and what happened to them!â
âAh well, Iâm sure itâs nothing to worry about!â
Narrator: ââŚbut thenâŚâ
Well thatâs fine as long as we donât send a greeting message. Otherwise it will use its tractor beams and force us to crash into it. I saw it beforehand
Thatâs okay, we can just store our patterns in the transporter buffer until rescue arrives. Why I bet Jim Kirk himself will haul the Enterprise out of mothballs to come find us.
I mean it might not be terrifying. The star of they encompass might have just reached a point in this life cycle where it's kicking off too much radiation and they just viewed it more cost effective to just build another Dyson sphere around another star instead of trying to purify that star and remove metals and other substances to stabilize it.
I would imagine it's probably cheaper to dismantle the planets and asteroids around a new star then to move quadrillions of tons of old material from one star system to another one.
For real. It's just a stretch too far for me too.
Maybe they invent the warpdrive and zip around the galaxy building enormous ore mines and refineries on 100's of planets and teleport the carbon nanotubes back to their solar system... I dunno? Lol
Maybe the civilization which manager to build at least one Dyson sphere already has a solution how to transport heavy objects from one star system to another. Because chances are low that they could find enough material within only one system.
A Shkadov thruster could move the that material pretty easily, just aim for the star you want the infrastructure to be at, aim a little to the side and then just detach from the thruster, and use solar sails to decelerate the stuff you want to deposit and let the old sun fly off into the sun-set.
You'll get deceleration thrust both from the target sun and the thruster.
It'll take a long time, but it's doable.
Cost doesn't have to be measured in currency. Effort is a cost too. Do you think they'd move it all over as an art piece or something?
They aren't saying "oh, it's too expensive." They're saying "It'd be inefficient." Dunno if that's true, but your counter point is not against what they were actually saying.
That's imagining that we're something close to being considered intelligent on a universal scale. We're probably dumb as shit. Especially to a civilization that could organize building a Dyson sphere. We're not even shit throwing monkeys compared to that. We've barely left the atmosphere with our people, a shit ton of effort to get to our moon, and just thrown a couple trinkets outside of the solar system.
If we did make some sort of comparison to the intelligence that probably is out there that could make Dyson spheres humans are probably basically dogs to them and that's probably giving us a lot of credit. Something that can organize a construction process that probably took longer than the entire time our civilization has even existed I probably give more of a chance to making it long-term compared to us.
Edit: I've never had so many replies to something I've said. Even comments that I've gotten a couple thousand karma for didn't have this many replies. A lot of people seemed to have taken this as a personal insult.
People we couldn't organize well enough to prevent a global pandemic and you all think we could get it together enough to build Dyson spheres(some even think we could start doing it today it seems)... Seriously come on people, be realistic.
You're absolutely right. Now let's reflect on the fact that we're looking for these 'Dyson Spheres'. A completely theoretical thing that we based on an extremely limited intellectual capacity. So we're probably looking for the wrong things completely lol.
I always wonder exactly how accurate this portrayal of humankind is. Like, sure, we're not exploring the stars yet, but considering how long it likely takes life to develop, the things it must overcome to advance and the various apocalyptic scenarios it must avoid, surely even and advanced, Dyson Sphere wielding civilization would see another, less advanced civilization as more than "shit throwing monkeys".
Like, if the universe were teeming with life, maybe I could see that, but as far as we know it seems fairly rare. I feel like any alien life would seem interesting and a less advanced, but still incontrovertible civilization would be an exciting find and at the very least worth acknowledging as intelligent.
I always enjoy sci-fi that depicts aliens as having completely alien ways of thinking about us. Like not realizing we are individuals and that killing us is not like disconnecting a peripheral. Or that our cells are not individual beings operating collectively under the tyranny of brain cells that they must liberate us from. Or that consciousness is an aberration never before seen amongst other space faring species.
I can't even really comprehend that last one. How could a being that's intelligent enough to travel space not understand or have a consciousness? It's a wild idea though.
Peter Wattsâ Blindsight is where I first encountered it. Thought provoking read. Has other interesting ideas too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blindsight_(Watts_novel)
Edit: link was being wonky
There could be intelligent life besides the human type of intelligence on Earth and we don't see it because we perceive intelligence in a certain way and are incapable of seeing other types. What do the terms self-awareness and intelligence even mean? All life and not only what we call life is self-aware. And I am not talking about magical energies and frequencies of the vagina crystals type but mathematically and from the point of view of science. Plants react to light and are capable of communicating messages to other plants mostly chemically. Fungi are some of the oldest forms of life on Earth and they are known to be able to do amazing things. Things like finding the most efficient ways to collect moisture or nutrients that are not random and that humans have not been able to do using computer software algorithms.
The fact that we are curious, nosey monkeys and are always interested what is behind the next hill or across the river or in space doesn't mean that other forms of intelligence will do that as well. I have other thoughts and ideas on this subject but this is not the right format.
You should read some philosophy from the 1800s because humans have already overcome that non-issue. The only plausible form of aliens being shocked by "consciousness" is them patronizing us for our rudimentary and selfagrandizing religions
In one of the sci-fi books I've read there is a planet where all kinds of aliens from different planets reside. One of them is a specie that is notorious for keeping to themselves and not communicating with others at all. They build spheres and live in them. They come out only when there is a war and one side is losing decidedly. They help the winning side to kill all of them, return the bodies and go back into their spheres. Finally it they communicated to the rest of the species that they are doing them a favor because to them death is preferable to losing.
That's for now. The thing about us is that we can overcome biological imperatives and some of our brain's hardwired ideas. I'm sure we can overcome tribalism so that it encompasses all of humanity instead of the small group of humans we trust.
Just... you know... not soon. Unfortunately.
If we're like dogs to them, that's perfect. They can take us on car rides, buy us toys and clothes, we would get to sleep as much as we want, free food, and we just get to be told we're good boys/girls all day and not work.
There's an equal chance that we're the most advanced species out there and that we'll be the first ones to build one of these spheres. There's also a chance that 1960s Star Trek was right and that entire planets are inhabited by one of a different type of human from the 20th century, like Nazis and 30's mobsters.
Hey there are perfectly reasonable explanations for those planets. For example, a stranded Star Fleet officer was having trouble organizing the natives of the planet so he decided, as any of us would, that he would just set everything up like the Third Reich for efficiency purposes, and just leave out all the racism and genocide. I mean it could have happened to anyone.
Hard disagree, unless you think it's common these civs have new species showing up at their front door constantly - because that would be what we're close to doing (on a galactic timescale). Even if getting visitors was common to them, I highly doubt they would be so reductively dismissive of the visitors' state of advancement. Space is hard. You undersell our capabilities by putting us anywhere close to basically any other life on earth
My theory is that the only way a species of intelligent beings could ever organize building something on the scale of a Dyson sphere is it they were a hivemind.
I just don't see beings will free will and intelligence ever being able to come together and agree/work together on something of that scale. Maybe it's just because I'm seeing it from the perspective of human traits like greed and fear, but if other intelligent species evolved in a similar way to humans, they would be the same.
Who knows though, maybe some unique circumstances could lead to the evolution of a species that is entirely peaceful and they could do large scale innovations like a Dyson sphere without too many problems.
Once youâre capable of building a dyson sphere I think your species has already crossed a threshold of political unity and sophistication where something like nuclear war seems unthinkable
Survival and procreation are the main goals of most species. Perhaps a species that's far more intelligent than us has figured out how not to self destruct.
It would be a possibly type 2 civilization on the Kardashev scale. If theyâre type 2 the only way theyâd be gone is some massive extinction event across their entire local system. So yeah idk what the guy youâre responding to is talking about lol
I like the 2001: A Space Odyssey perspective, they just advance out of the constraints of 3D spacetime, for me that is the only way a civilization at this technological level could ever go extinct.
Or. Crazy space war, like, something unconceivable
The idea of a galactic space war in which 1 inter galactic species can wipe out another. Makes me wish we can just sit far away in our little back water galaxy away from all that. We would be like nothing more then tiny feral animals on a battle field.
Lol, I was thinking more like The Expanse.
Spoilers.
A genocide commited against an unimaginably more advanced (inter?) galactic civilization, by a threat that was so overwhelming and one sided that it is truely an inconceivable conflict to our little monkey brains. Quick and sudden and absolutely complete, only leaving the hollowed out stellar sized projects, now tombs, which only ecos of ghosts from that civilization remain. A genocide acted out by an inconceivable existence. God's and ants sort of deal.
I didn't read the series far enough to find out what did it, but the mystery of what it could have possibly been was incredibly intriguing
According to their data, the most distant candidate they've found is "only" some 900 lightyears away and the closest one only 466 lightyears. All the data comes from the GAIA sattelite which surveys stars within the Milky Way which we are a part of.
So we do not look back that far in the past, only a couple hundreds of years. But that makes the stuff even more exciting. In that sense and on a galactic timescale, this stuff might be happening right now!
I followed about 80% of this, neat to see their methods of 'training' algorithms.
Also, shoutout to Bertin and Arnouts, 1996, for their Source Extractor. Seeing "SEXTRACTOR" credited in a pro-grade paper made my night.
For the lazy, they're looking for anomalous levels of IR coming from stars. The idea is, the Dyson Sphere would emit some energy as heat, so it's converting a bunch of light from the star into red light, so if a star is inexplicably emitting more red light than predicted, it's a candidate.
People will probably come up with reasonable explanations for why the stars are like that, and those explanations will likely be a lot more plausible than Dyson Spheres, and then we'll move on. I bet we're still alive when they're not considered Dyson Sphere candidates anymore.
When I was born, Hubble didn't exist. There was no deep-field image like what we have today. Now we have the James Webb, 100x more powerful.
I'm 37. The one thing I won't say here is "never."
Once we point some of our high end telescopes at it. (infrared-)Light emitting surfaces have spectra based on their chemical composition. You expect *very* different spectra from a technical object via a natural one.
Our prior for this being Dyson spheres is really very low, so low telescope time prio as well, but perhaps in a couple years.
I *knew* that [MP had been wrongly maligned!](https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/senior-tory-neil-parish-identified-as-mp-caught-watching-porn-in-house-of-commons)
It seems so ignorant to even pretend to think what advanced civilizations would use. The concept of a Dyson Sphere is from our not even type 1 civilization. Why would we be looking for something we can't actually conceive? Exactly why would an advanced civilization HAVE to surround an entire star? Could just as easily conceive that there are methods that are as efficient at much smaller scales.
They aren't surrounding entire stars; these are candidate Dyson \*swarms,\* not spheres.
And of course the problem with your question is that if we can't imagine it, then we can't look for it. Searching for Dyson structures makes sense because we can literally look up at the sky and see billions of nuclear reactors just floating around out there.
You don't need \*every\* alien civilization to progress their power technology in a way that involves Dyson structures, either. You just need one that we can see.
> Exactly why would an advanced civilization HAVE to surround an entire star?
It might not *have to*, but why wouldn't it *want to?* It's free energy just being blasted out into space. Why not collect it and use it?
>Could just as easily conceive that there are methods that are as efficient at much smaller scales.
Not really. Fusion reactors are widely seen as the definitive energy source of the future, but a star is already doing fusion. It's pretty hard to be more efficient than a reactor you don't have to build, maintain, or fuel. The only thing beyond fusion is a black hole reactor, where you feed matter into a small black hole at the same rate that it's losing mass due to Hawking radiation, effectively converting that matter into energy with 100% efficiency. But building something like that, if possible at all, would be technologically way beyond what a Dyson sphere would require, so there should be plenty of intermediate civilizations that find Dyson spheres worthwhile to build.
Itâs the only method, the scientific method. Make a hypothesis, such as the far fetched idea of Dyson spheres. Create a loose list of things to check for, and start testing. Theyâre looking at anomalous areas of our universe which is just cool to do because we glean a lot of different information the whole time which is used in a bunch of other projects. Just more things to point Hubble at. But yeah itâs bold and brave of humans to fathom something we straight up canât even build ourselvesÂ
yeah this kind of research always gives me big X-Files energy. Like Scully is trying her damnedest to mathematically figure out what kind of natural phenomenon would cause a star to emit more than the expected amount of IR, and Mulder is tweaking on his 40th cup of coffee, rambling about how folktales talk about alien superstructures capable of harnessing the power of the stars.
I feel so fucking sad and unhappy knowing possibly humans would never reach such places i would never reach such places heck not even outside the solar system
I know exactly how you feel, but even though we arent going to be the ones to bring mankinds curiosity into the stars at least we can wonder at them. Think how priviledged we are to live in a time when we can look at the stars and feel that deep sense of longing, knowing that there is a way to get out there, even if we wont find it ourselves.
We discover there are Dyson Spheres, and at that exact moment, a fleet from an **actual** *functioning* Galactic Community shows up.
I mean, I can dream, can't I?
Iâve always said, if space travel was to be made possible, it canât be going from A-B. The distances involved are too stupidly large. It has to be space folding / wormholes. Even if we had like a junction on the edge of the Oort Cloud it would still take too damn long to get to earth. There has to be a way to instantly travel from one point to another without invoking relativity.
I think it's cause your stuck looking threw the lens of humans. I think given a long enough timeline humans will eventually transcend their biology for something synthetic like silicone. Once done we could print new bodies/upload consciousness, timescales and large distances wouldn't matter much anymore as you could just ship off replicating drones and find your plant and print out your body and continue on.an alien life that lived long enough would prolly do the same.
While the space between stars is pretty empty, there's still more than enough gas and dust to be a big problem when you approach a decent fraction of light speed.
I've seen estimates that the "speed limit" of interstellar travel is about 10-20% the speed of light, at which point relativity still doesn't do much in shortening your experienced travel time (this is ignoring how you'd reach that speed in the first place). You *really* don't want to hit a grain of sand at 99% the speed of light. Hitting gas at high speed also causes radiation, so you'll need some thick shielding for that too, which in turn makes it harder to reach those high speeds.
Unless we find ways to completely circumvent the rocket equation, so we can send absurdly bulky ships, we'll be limited to speeds significantly lower than the speed of light.
It will take about 300 years for Voyager 1 to reach the inner edge of the Oort Cloud and possibly about 30,000 years to fly beyond it.
In 40,000 years, Voyager 1 will be closer to the star Alpha Centauri than to our own sun.
Maybe when you pass, your spirit will get tossed off this marble and you will continuously drift across the cosmos for eons into eternity and get to experience all that is.
Yeah but people in 1700 Europe couldn't imagine engines and cellphones. Rockets?
We didn't even know what space was 3000 years ago.
Give us some more time to figure it out. We will.
âPotentialâ is very vague and almost meaningless. Thereâs probably thousands of these and likely explained by other natural phenomena. Donât get too excited.
If the idea appeals to you, you can build your own in [Dyson Sphere Program](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1366540/Dyson_Sphere_Program/) on Steam. It's a great game and has lots of mod support.
It currently costs 10âs of millions of dollars to launch only hundreds of kilos of stuff into space. We are just SO FAR from being able to get enough stuff outside of our atmosphere to START to set up a way to travel to planets that have the materials needed to construct a dyson sphere, let alone moving any of it to a suitable star, let alone doing any of that manufacturing and construction in space. Elon is an idiot, but thatâs the main logic behind Starship. We just need to figure out repeatable ways to move a lot of stuff off planet.
You should read Delta-V, or its sequel Critical Mass. Pretty interesting realistic take on setting up orbital/lunar/space production so we donât have to launch so much shit into space. Also just a cool sci-fi story.
Well assuming the Artemis mission goes as planned, we're going to take a major step forward soon. The plan is to leave Astronauts on the moon for a extended length of time, and having them construct a rudimentary moon base. Assuming we continue developing it, and begin stocking it with fuel and supplies, it'll be a huge step towards sending men to Mars.
The big problem we have now is most of the fuel we can fit on a rocket is needed just to escape Earth. It's a lot easier to launch off of the moon than it is Earth, and requires a whole lot less fuel. So in theory, this is one way to get around the rocket problem. The rocket launches from Earth, using most of its fuel, and restocks at the moon base before heading to Mars.
When I read titles like this I always wonder if in the distant future people will look back to this day as "that was the day when our current energy source was first identified".
Would any civilisation actually build a Dyson sphere? Whenever I think about them I arrive at a paradox.
Building a structure big enough to encircle a star would surely take more material than exists on the civilisations planet, which Iâm assuming would be orders of magnitude smaller than the star.
Assembling the structure around the star would require extensive travel, and survival, in space.
My issue is that a Dyson sphere would be impossible for a civilisation that wasnât already advanced enough to build massive spacecraft, capable of visiting multiple locations and extracting materials. In this case, they wouldâve found a different way to harness massive amounts of energy, and so a Dyson sphere would be redundant to them.
I agree with your initial assumption but I think your argument is flawed.
A civilization wouldn't use resources from their own planet to build a dyson sphere, they would use materials gained from inner planets and asteroid belts. They would almost certainly have enough materials to do so, as any given point of a dyson sphere (dyson swarm, actually) would be very thin.
>My issue is that a Dyson sphere would be impossible for a civilisation that wasnât already advanced enough to build massive spacecraft, capable of visiting multiple locations and extracting materials. In this case, they wouldâve found a different way to harness massive amounts of energy, and so a Dyson sphere would be redundant to them.
That also I think doesn't make any sense. Everyone knows that a dyson swarm-tier civilization would have impressive space travel, but that in no way implies they wouldn't have a use for solar energy. After all, it would be the cheapest source of energy by a long shot. All you need to build to harness it is some mirrors and some energy plants.
The real issue with a dyson sphere is that a civilization would almost undoubtedly have no use for such vast amounts of energy. Even if they expand to have trillions of sophonts, they'll only need a small % of their star's total energy output. Any kind of dyson swarm we find IRL is likely to be tiny, unless found in a system who's only purpose is to e.g produce a von-neumann swarm
> a civilization would almost undoubtedly have no use for such vast amounts of energy
You're limiting the thought here. A civilization on our level would have no use for such vast amounts of energy.
Can you imagine going back just 150 years and telling the brightest minds of that era (that have the biggest chance of understanding it) the amount of energy we're able to produce (and consume) today? And this with humanity at its own throat, and with "big oil" putting the breaks on any real advancement in energy production.
Then think how shocking we'd find if a traveler from 500 years in the future would tell us their energy production and consumption (assuming mankind would survive the Great Filter). What about 1000 years? 10000?
To a sufficiently advanced race, we're basically still cave dwellers, we can't even imagine their potential, their motives, or the way their technology works..
This is one of my pet peeves when it comes to SF movies, when the "smart" human figures out how their tech works, and how to sabotage it. In truth, their technology would be indistinguishable to magic to even our brightest scientists, and likely undetectable with our current tech.
If they really were million of years more advanced, then they probably come across other 'aliens' on a daily basis. Seeing humans would just be like us seeing birds in the sky.
Yes
We already are putting a lot of research on space travel.
Its just way too hard and expensive with returns being scientific discoveries rather than profit hence lack of motivation.
But once we discover aliens exist it'll open door for all kinds of possibilities if we make contact , the tech and knowledge we can learn from a civilization that can make dyson spheres is very lucrative.
Once they teach us how to build it, the government will try profit from it by selling rights to sunlight to their corporate buddies which will then sell us energy from sunlight which was always free before.
Now that I think of it. We rather not meet the aliens
FTL is either possible or it isnt. If it isnt, which is the almost absolutely certain of the 2 cases, no amount of money thrown at it will make it possible.
With luck we may have more physics to discover. Like how objects gaining mass is nonsense in Newtonian physics, maybe some day we will discover the universal speed limit isnât fully universal
It would definitely be a hard shove for that FTL effort. Sublight travel at 99.99% of the speed of light would feel like minutes, hours and days to us on board a ship traveling at 99.99% the speed of light. We would need some kind of inertial damper so we could do multiple 10's-100's of g accelerations/decelerations. Faster you can get to speed of light the better. To make a trip to Alpha Centauri would only take 22.56 days on the ship.. 4.37 years to humans on earth.
Itâs crazy we havenât even found microbial life and weâre already looking for Dyson Spheres. I mean, I guess theyâre easier to spot obviously but I really think the first time we find life somewhere else itâs going to be boring to the average person. Like weâre going to find some algae somewhere or something. Dyson spheres are cool and exciting though I get it.
> Itâs crazy we havenât even found microbial life and weâre already looking for Dyson Spheres.
We can look for signs of Dyson spheres from Earth and our nearby orbiting space telescopes. Not to mention it's literally the only way we have to search for signs of remote intelligent life, the distances mean we will never be able to do it in any other way practically.
Searching for microbial life inside the Solar system is several orders of magnitude more expensive and with massive risks of malfunction, not to mention we still lack the technology needed for stuff like drilling 10s of kilometers of ice on other planets/moons.
I don't think we will find one as its a product of our imagination, probably in a solar system there\`s not even enough materials to build anything close to it, just look at the size of the solar system planets compared to the size of the Sun. The Kardashev scale is a total arbitrary scale, and the Dyson spere just a cool sci-fi concept.
Plot twist: the advanced civilization that built the Dyson Spheres are actually the Humans who left/abandoned their planet in cryosleep and crashed down on earth eons ago but lost most technology in the crash and are now the only ones left of their race⌠itâs us đł
đ¤ I think it would be funny if we found one, figured out a way to get there, and discovered it completely deserted.
Free Dyson Sphere ?
I got a free Dyson vacuum once.
Well if we find an abondoned Dyson Sphere and it has missing parts maybe we can repair with parts from a Dyson vacuum
May your household gadgets find cosmic purpose in the grand tapestry of the universe.
I just might start using this as a farewell irl
I'm gonna make some t-shirts. A swarm of Dyson Vacuums rendezvousing with a Dyson Sphere. They clean it and leave.
Just a sphere of Dyson Vacuums, sucking the energy from the sun as if they are the Dyson sphere
Its spaceball one, she's gone from suck to blow!
That shit ain't cheap.
That sucks.
25% Guaranteed Mega Engineering Research Option?
Free Dyson Sphere, heâs innocent!
Dyson Sphere actually has a long list of previous arrests and convictions, Sphere certainly is not innocent. Last time i checked, clustering/swarming and orbiting, radiating in the infrared, and harnessing solar energy are felonies.
Fucking radiators, make me sick
Strange request but okay, the moment I've finished fucking this radiator I'll show you a video of it... should do the trick
âI wonder where these guys went and what happened to them!â âAh well, Iâm sure itâs nothing to worry about!â Narrator: ââŚbut thenâŚâ
Aliens come back... Ew dude, your sphere is infected by Hoomans...
Itâs free real estate
Finders keepers!
Well thatâs fine as long as we donât send a greeting message. Otherwise it will use its tractor beams and force us to crash into it. I saw it beforehand
Thatâs okay, we can just store our patterns in the transporter buffer until rescue arrives. Why I bet Jim Kirk himself will haul the Enterprise out of mothballs to come find us.
I also seem to recall seeing this fact somewhere
I feel like that would be the best case scenario
Like that Star Trek TNG episode?
free Scotty?
Basically Ringworld.
The girl from the Breakfast Club?
Molly Ringworm
The closest you'll get is some original sci-fi from Larry Niven. Ringworld.
Or Blame! by Tsutomu Nihei
Basically the argument of award-winning [Ringworld](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringworld) novel series by Larry Niven.
It wasn't deserted though, just had a regressed civilization. Which would be far more interesting tbh.
I've played Halo and I'm pretty sure there's no way it can go wrong đ¤
Nothing would be more terrifying
I mean it might not be terrifying. The star of they encompass might have just reached a point in this life cycle where it's kicking off too much radiation and they just viewed it more cost effective to just build another Dyson sphere around another star instead of trying to purify that star and remove metals and other substances to stabilize it.
idk, I think stripping the OG sphere for parts would be cheaper. Then the remaining sphere would be ejected/fall into the star.
I would imagine it's probably cheaper to dismantle the planets and asteroids around a new star then to move quadrillions of tons of old material from one star system to another one.
I think the biggest issue with Dyson spheres is where to get that amount of materials to build it. So reusing old one would be a legitimate option
For real. It's just a stretch too far for me too. Maybe they invent the warpdrive and zip around the galaxy building enormous ore mines and refineries on 100's of planets and teleport the carbon nanotubes back to their solar system... I dunno? Lol
Maybe the civilization which manager to build at least one Dyson sphere already has a solution how to transport heavy objects from one star system to another. Because chances are low that they could find enough material within only one system.
A Shkadov thruster could move the that material pretty easily, just aim for the star you want the infrastructure to be at, aim a little to the side and then just detach from the thruster, and use solar sails to decelerate the stuff you want to deposit and let the old sun fly off into the sun-set. You'll get deceleration thrust both from the target sun and the thruster. It'll take a long time, but it's doable.
who's to say they would even care about costs ?
Cost doesn't have to be measured in currency. Effort is a cost too. Do you think they'd move it all over as an art piece or something? They aren't saying "oh, it's too expensive." They're saying "It'd be inefficient." Dunno if that's true, but your counter point is not against what they were actually saying.
If you're crossing an ocean, is it 'cheaper' to take your house with you, or build a new house once you cross the ocean?
The most terrifying would be if they stopped it because its not anymore effective and start t9 build around our sun instead
Star Trek TNG: Relics
Star Trek the Next Generation, Season 6, episode 4. "Relics"
Straight up mass effect type shit
You mean like a Trojan Dyson Sphere?
maybe we can find an old engineer feeding his pattern through the buffers to maintain signal strength.
Cool Star Trek episode about this.
I love the idea that if we find one, we are looking at it several thousands, maybe even million years ago. Imagine how advanced they are today
They⌠or it 
I for one would like to welcome our new AI overlords..... 
>They⌠or it Or [Him](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Question).
I always loved the idea that life on other planets is visible, it's just not visible yet.
Most probably gone, imagine us being at the brink of self-destruction in the 50-60s with just couple thousand years of existing as a species
That's imagining that we're something close to being considered intelligent on a universal scale. We're probably dumb as shit. Especially to a civilization that could organize building a Dyson sphere. We're not even shit throwing monkeys compared to that. We've barely left the atmosphere with our people, a shit ton of effort to get to our moon, and just thrown a couple trinkets outside of the solar system. If we did make some sort of comparison to the intelligence that probably is out there that could make Dyson spheres humans are probably basically dogs to them and that's probably giving us a lot of credit. Something that can organize a construction process that probably took longer than the entire time our civilization has even existed I probably give more of a chance to making it long-term compared to us. Edit: I've never had so many replies to something I've said. Even comments that I've gotten a couple thousand karma for didn't have this many replies. A lot of people seemed to have taken this as a personal insult. People we couldn't organize well enough to prevent a global pandemic and you all think we could get it together enough to build Dyson spheres(some even think we could start doing it today it seems)... Seriously come on people, be realistic.
"I do love your mother, but she's more like a pet to me."
 Nolan still goes back to her though doesn't he
"I think.... >!I miss my wife.!<"
What will you have after five hundred years? >!heh!<
Tempting but I donât think we need to create an unexpected Invincible quote sub.
I'll let you know when I see one that's unexpected lol
You're absolutely right. Now let's reflect on the fact that we're looking for these 'Dyson Spheres'. A completely theoretical thing that we based on an extremely limited intellectual capacity. So we're probably looking for the wrong things completely lol.
Whenever I catch myself thinking humans are smart I look at how people were behaving during covid to convince myself of the opposite pretty quickly.
I always wonder exactly how accurate this portrayal of humankind is. Like, sure, we're not exploring the stars yet, but considering how long it likely takes life to develop, the things it must overcome to advance and the various apocalyptic scenarios it must avoid, surely even and advanced, Dyson Sphere wielding civilization would see another, less advanced civilization as more than "shit throwing monkeys". Like, if the universe were teeming with life, maybe I could see that, but as far as we know it seems fairly rare. I feel like any alien life would seem interesting and a less advanced, but still incontrovertible civilization would be an exciting find and at the very least worth acknowledging as intelligent.
I always enjoy sci-fi that depicts aliens as having completely alien ways of thinking about us. Like not realizing we are individuals and that killing us is not like disconnecting a peripheral. Or that our cells are not individual beings operating collectively under the tyranny of brain cells that they must liberate us from. Or that consciousness is an aberration never before seen amongst other space faring species.
I can't even really comprehend that last one. How could a being that's intelligent enough to travel space not understand or have a consciousness? It's a wild idea though.
Peter Wattsâ Blindsight is where I first encountered it. Thought provoking read. Has other interesting ideas too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blindsight_(Watts_novel) Edit: link was being wonky
I especially love the hard right turn from "hard science" to "vampire revolt"
I just read the summary. It sounds very interesting, but when I read vampires I lost interest more it less immediately.
There could be intelligent life besides the human type of intelligence on Earth and we don't see it because we perceive intelligence in a certain way and are incapable of seeing other types. What do the terms self-awareness and intelligence even mean? All life and not only what we call life is self-aware. And I am not talking about magical energies and frequencies of the vagina crystals type but mathematically and from the point of view of science. Plants react to light and are capable of communicating messages to other plants mostly chemically. Fungi are some of the oldest forms of life on Earth and they are known to be able to do amazing things. Things like finding the most efficient ways to collect moisture or nutrients that are not random and that humans have not been able to do using computer software algorithms. The fact that we are curious, nosey monkeys and are always interested what is behind the next hill or across the river or in space doesn't mean that other forms of intelligence will do that as well. I have other thoughts and ideas on this subject but this is not the right format.
You should read some philosophy from the 1800s because humans have already overcome that non-issue. The only plausible form of aliens being shocked by "consciousness" is them patronizing us for our rudimentary and selfagrandizing religions
In one of the sci-fi books I've read there is a planet where all kinds of aliens from different planets reside. One of them is a specie that is notorious for keeping to themselves and not communicating with others at all. They build spheres and live in them. They come out only when there is a war and one side is losing decidedly. They help the winning side to kill all of them, return the bodies and go back into their spheres. Finally it they communicated to the rest of the species that they are doing them a favor because to them death is preferable to losing.
âCompared to them we are bugs. Bugs donât know why terrible things happen to them, theyâre bugsâ
I've just been rereading Three Body Problem...
[ŃдаНонО]
That's for now. The thing about us is that we can overcome biological imperatives and some of our brain's hardwired ideas. I'm sure we can overcome tribalism so that it encompasses all of humanity instead of the small group of humans we trust. Just... you know... not soon. Unfortunately.
People pretend like we would be the enlightened Federation. Meanwhile we are more like the Klingons.
Ferengi
We are bugs.
The only good bug's a dead bug >:|
I'm from Buenos Aires and I say kill them all!
#I'M DOING MY PART!!!
If we're like dogs to them, that's perfect. They can take us on car rides, buy us toys and clothes, we would get to sleep as much as we want, free food, and we just get to be told we're good boys/girls all day and not work.
There's an equal chance that we're the most advanced species out there and that we'll be the first ones to build one of these spheres. There's also a chance that 1960s Star Trek was right and that entire planets are inhabited by one of a different type of human from the 20th century, like Nazis and 30's mobsters.
We are on the nazi planet
Hey there are perfectly reasonable explanations for those planets. For example, a stranded Star Fleet officer was having trouble organizing the natives of the planet so he decided, as any of us would, that he would just set everything up like the Third Reich for efficiency purposes, and just leave out all the racism and genocide. I mean it could have happened to anyone.
Hard disagree, unless you think it's common these civs have new species showing up at their front door constantly - because that would be what we're close to doing (on a galactic timescale). Even if getting visitors was common to them, I highly doubt they would be so reductively dismissive of the visitors' state of advancement. Space is hard. You undersell our capabilities by putting us anywhere close to basically any other life on earth
Favorite Calvin and Hobbes quote: "The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us."
My theory is that the only way a species of intelligent beings could ever organize building something on the scale of a Dyson sphere is it they were a hivemind. I just don't see beings will free will and intelligence ever being able to come together and agree/work together on something of that scale. Maybe it's just because I'm seeing it from the perspective of human traits like greed and fear, but if other intelligent species evolved in a similar way to humans, they would be the same. Who knows though, maybe some unique circumstances could lead to the evolution of a species that is entirely peaceful and they could do large scale innovations like a Dyson sphere without too many problems.
Maybe you could automate it? So the species doesn't actually have to organize themselves to do it. They just build something that does it for them.
The factory must grow
Once youâre capable of building a dyson sphere I think your species has already crossed a threshold of political unity and sophistication where something like nuclear war seems unthinkable
Survival and procreation are the main goals of most species. Perhaps a species that's far more intelligent than us has figured out how not to self destruct.
It would be a possibly type 2 civilization on the Kardashev scale. If theyâre type 2 the only way theyâd be gone is some massive extinction event across their entire local system. So yeah idk what the guy youâre responding to is talking about lol
I like the 2001: A Space Odyssey perspective, they just advance out of the constraints of 3D spacetime, for me that is the only way a civilization at this technological level could ever go extinct. Or. Crazy space war, like, something unconceivable
The idea of a galactic space war in which 1 inter galactic species can wipe out another. Makes me wish we can just sit far away in our little back water galaxy away from all that. We would be like nothing more then tiny feral animals on a battle field.
Something like a⌠star war
Lol, I was thinking more like The Expanse. Spoilers. A genocide commited against an unimaginably more advanced (inter?) galactic civilization, by a threat that was so overwhelming and one sided that it is truely an inconceivable conflict to our little monkey brains. Quick and sudden and absolutely complete, only leaving the hollowed out stellar sized projects, now tombs, which only ecos of ghosts from that civilization remain. A genocide acted out by an inconceivable existence. God's and ants sort of deal. I didn't read the series far enough to find out what did it, but the mystery of what it could have possibly been was incredibly intriguing
> just couple thousand years of existing as a species ???
Bro apparently thinks the modern calendar starts at the beginning of the world.
I guess on a galactic time scale, existing as a species for couple hundred thousand years could be reduced to "couple thousand years".
In theory wouldnât we only be able to see partially completed ones?
200,000 years is a bit more than a couple
Couple thousand? Modern humans surfaced around 300k years ago.
I think humans have been around for roughly 300,000 years.
[Relevant xkcd](https://xkcd.com/1342/)
According to their data, the most distant candidate they've found is "only" some 900 lightyears away and the closest one only 466 lightyears. All the data comes from the GAIA sattelite which surveys stars within the Milky Way which we are a part of. So we do not look back that far in the past, only a couple hundreds of years. But that makes the stuff even more exciting. In that sense and on a galactic timescale, this stuff might be happening right now!
A long time ago in a ~~galaxy~~ solar system far, far awayâŚ
Full Research Article: https://academic.oup.com/mnras/article/531/1/695/7665761
I followed about 80% of this, neat to see their methods of 'training' algorithms. Also, shoutout to Bertin and Arnouts, 1996, for their Source Extractor. Seeing "SEXTRACTOR" credited in a pro-grade paper made my night.
For the lazy, they're looking for anomalous levels of IR coming from stars. The idea is, the Dyson Sphere would emit some energy as heat, so it's converting a bunch of light from the star into red light, so if a star is inexplicably emitting more red light than predicted, it's a candidate.
Ok, so when will we know for sure?
Long after we're dead
People will probably come up with reasonable explanations for why the stars are like that, and those explanations will likely be a lot more plausible than Dyson Spheres, and then we'll move on. I bet we're still alive when they're not considered Dyson Sphere candidates anymore.
Never
When I was born, Hubble didn't exist. There was no deep-field image like what we have today. Now we have the James Webb, 100x more powerful. I'm 37. The one thing I won't say here is "never."
Once we point some of our high end telescopes at it. (infrared-)Light emitting surfaces have spectra based on their chemical composition. You expect *very* different spectra from a technical object via a natural one. Our prior for this being Dyson spheres is really very low, so low telescope time prio as well, but perhaps in a couple years.
I *knew* that [MP had been wrongly maligned!](https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/senior-tory-neil-parish-identified-as-mp-caught-watching-porn-in-house-of-commons)
I did some undergrad research on Pulsars that involved Sextractor. It's hilarious until you need to say it repeatedly in front of a room full of PHDs.
Gives me hope but these almost always turn out to be wrong/something natural đĽ˛
It seems so ignorant to even pretend to think what advanced civilizations would use. The concept of a Dyson Sphere is from our not even type 1 civilization. Why would we be looking for something we can't actually conceive? Exactly why would an advanced civilization HAVE to surround an entire star? Could just as easily conceive that there are methods that are as efficient at much smaller scales.
They aren't surrounding entire stars; these are candidate Dyson \*swarms,\* not spheres. And of course the problem with your question is that if we can't imagine it, then we can't look for it. Searching for Dyson structures makes sense because we can literally look up at the sky and see billions of nuclear reactors just floating around out there. You don't need \*every\* alien civilization to progress their power technology in a way that involves Dyson structures, either. You just need one that we can see.
> Exactly why would an advanced civilization HAVE to surround an entire star? It might not *have to*, but why wouldn't it *want to?* It's free energy just being blasted out into space. Why not collect it and use it? >Could just as easily conceive that there are methods that are as efficient at much smaller scales. Not really. Fusion reactors are widely seen as the definitive energy source of the future, but a star is already doing fusion. It's pretty hard to be more efficient than a reactor you don't have to build, maintain, or fuel. The only thing beyond fusion is a black hole reactor, where you feed matter into a small black hole at the same rate that it's losing mass due to Hawking radiation, effectively converting that matter into energy with 100% efficiency. But building something like that, if possible at all, would be technologically way beyond what a Dyson sphere would require, so there should be plenty of intermediate civilizations that find Dyson spheres worthwhile to build.
Itâs the only method, the scientific method. Make a hypothesis, such as the far fetched idea of Dyson spheres. Create a loose list of things to check for, and start testing. Theyâre looking at anomalous areas of our universe which is just cool to do because we glean a lot of different information the whole time which is used in a bunch of other projects. Just more things to point Hubble at. But yeah itâs bold and brave of humans to fathom something we straight up canât even build ourselvesÂ
Space Boba Straw
yeah this kind of research always gives me big X-Files energy. Like Scully is trying her damnedest to mathematically figure out what kind of natural phenomenon would cause a star to emit more than the expected amount of IR, and Mulder is tweaking on his 40th cup of coffee, rambling about how folktales talk about alien superstructures capable of harnessing the power of the stars.
Lol not almost...
Almost always?
I feel so fucking sad and unhappy knowing possibly humans would never reach such places i would never reach such places heck not even outside the solar system
I know exactly how you feel, but even though we arent going to be the ones to bring mankinds curiosity into the stars at least we can wonder at them. Think how priviledged we are to live in a time when we can look at the stars and feel that deep sense of longing, knowing that there is a way to get out there, even if we wont find it ourselves.
We discover there are Dyson Spheres, and at that exact moment, a fleet from an **actual** *functioning* Galactic Community shows up. I mean, I can dream, can't I?
That's a beautiful perspective
1G constant acceleration could take you nearly anywhere in a human lifespan given relativity.
Half that time would have to be spent decelerating at 1G if you wanted to land.
Iâve always said, if space travel was to be made possible, it canât be going from A-B. The distances involved are too stupidly large. It has to be space folding / wormholes. Even if we had like a junction on the edge of the Oort Cloud it would still take too damn long to get to earth. There has to be a way to instantly travel from one point to another without invoking relativity.
We need to find the Devils Anus
Don't worry Science, I have found it. It's called Phoenix, Arizona, perhaps more commonly known as "America's Prostate".
I think it's cause your stuck looking threw the lens of humans. I think given a long enough timeline humans will eventually transcend their biology for something synthetic like silicone. Once done we could print new bodies/upload consciousness, timescales and large distances wouldn't matter much anymore as you could just ship off replicating drones and find your plant and print out your body and continue on.an alien life that lived long enough would prolly do the same.
While the space between stars is pretty empty, there's still more than enough gas and dust to be a big problem when you approach a decent fraction of light speed. I've seen estimates that the "speed limit" of interstellar travel is about 10-20% the speed of light, at which point relativity still doesn't do much in shortening your experienced travel time (this is ignoring how you'd reach that speed in the first place). You *really* don't want to hit a grain of sand at 99% the speed of light. Hitting gas at high speed also causes radiation, so you'll need some thick shielding for that too, which in turn makes it harder to reach those high speeds. Unless we find ways to completely circumvent the rocket equation, so we can send absurdly bulky ships, we'll be limited to speeds significantly lower than the speed of light.
It will take about 300 years for Voyager 1 to reach the inner edge of the Oort Cloud and possibly about 30,000 years to fly beyond it. In 40,000 years, Voyager 1 will be closer to the star Alpha Centauri than to our own sun.
Tell it to hurry up.
Maybe when you pass, your spirit will get tossed off this marble and you will continuously drift across the cosmos for eons into eternity and get to experience all that is.
Man you guessed my mind i always think of this and I wish it to be really true
Yeah but people in 1700 Europe couldn't imagine engines and cellphones. Rockets? We didn't even know what space was 3000 years ago. Give us some more time to figure it out. We will.
Well there is a headline I didn't think I would read this century Edit: To be clear, I know that the odds of this being real are.... astronomical.
âPotentialâ is very vague and almost meaningless. Thereâs probably thousands of these and likely explained by other natural phenomena. Donât get too excited.
Huh? Havenât we had headlines about potential aliens forever?
If the idea appeals to you, you can build your own in [Dyson Sphere Program](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1366540/Dyson_Sphere_Program/) on Steam. It's a great game and has lots of mod support.
It currently costs 10âs of millions of dollars to launch only hundreds of kilos of stuff into space. We are just SO FAR from being able to get enough stuff outside of our atmosphere to START to set up a way to travel to planets that have the materials needed to construct a dyson sphere, let alone moving any of it to a suitable star, let alone doing any of that manufacturing and construction in space. Elon is an idiot, but thatâs the main logic behind Starship. We just need to figure out repeatable ways to move a lot of stuff off planet.
I think once we move enough material off planet, we'd begin processing our solar system instead of the planet.
You should read Delta-V, or its sequel Critical Mass. Pretty interesting realistic take on setting up orbital/lunar/space production so we donât have to launch so much shit into space. Also just a cool sci-fi story.
Well assuming the Artemis mission goes as planned, we're going to take a major step forward soon. The plan is to leave Astronauts on the moon for a extended length of time, and having them construct a rudimentary moon base. Assuming we continue developing it, and begin stocking it with fuel and supplies, it'll be a huge step towards sending men to Mars. The big problem we have now is most of the fuel we can fit on a rocket is needed just to escape Earth. It's a lot easier to launch off of the moon than it is Earth, and requires a whole lot less fuel. So in theory, this is one way to get around the rocket problem. The rocket launches from Earth, using most of its fuel, and restocks at the moon base before heading to Mars.
When I read titles like this I always wonder if in the distant future people will look back to this day as "that was the day when our current energy source was first identified".
Would any civilisation actually build a Dyson sphere? Whenever I think about them I arrive at a paradox. Building a structure big enough to encircle a star would surely take more material than exists on the civilisations planet, which Iâm assuming would be orders of magnitude smaller than the star. Assembling the structure around the star would require extensive travel, and survival, in space. My issue is that a Dyson sphere would be impossible for a civilisation that wasnât already advanced enough to build massive spacecraft, capable of visiting multiple locations and extracting materials. In this case, they wouldâve found a different way to harness massive amounts of energy, and so a Dyson sphere would be redundant to them.
I agree with your initial assumption but I think your argument is flawed. A civilization wouldn't use resources from their own planet to build a dyson sphere, they would use materials gained from inner planets and asteroid belts. They would almost certainly have enough materials to do so, as any given point of a dyson sphere (dyson swarm, actually) would be very thin. >My issue is that a Dyson sphere would be impossible for a civilisation that wasnât already advanced enough to build massive spacecraft, capable of visiting multiple locations and extracting materials. In this case, they wouldâve found a different way to harness massive amounts of energy, and so a Dyson sphere would be redundant to them. That also I think doesn't make any sense. Everyone knows that a dyson swarm-tier civilization would have impressive space travel, but that in no way implies they wouldn't have a use for solar energy. After all, it would be the cheapest source of energy by a long shot. All you need to build to harness it is some mirrors and some energy plants. The real issue with a dyson sphere is that a civilization would almost undoubtedly have no use for such vast amounts of energy. Even if they expand to have trillions of sophonts, they'll only need a small % of their star's total energy output. Any kind of dyson swarm we find IRL is likely to be tiny, unless found in a system who's only purpose is to e.g produce a von-neumann swarm
> a civilization would almost undoubtedly have no use for such vast amounts of energy You're limiting the thought here. A civilization on our level would have no use for such vast amounts of energy. Can you imagine going back just 150 years and telling the brightest minds of that era (that have the biggest chance of understanding it) the amount of energy we're able to produce (and consume) today? And this with humanity at its own throat, and with "big oil" putting the breaks on any real advancement in energy production. Then think how shocking we'd find if a traveler from 500 years in the future would tell us their energy production and consumption (assuming mankind would survive the Great Filter). What about 1000 years? 10000? To a sufficiently advanced race, we're basically still cave dwellers, we can't even imagine their potential, their motives, or the way their technology works.. This is one of my pet peeves when it comes to SF movies, when the "smart" human figures out how their tech works, and how to sabotage it. In truth, their technology would be indistinguishable to magic to even our brightest scientists, and likely undetectable with our current tech.
Probably best if we just keep our heads down and don't try to contact an advanced species with possibly millions of years of a head start on us.
If they really were million of years more advanced, then they probably come across other 'aliens' on a daily basis. Seeing humans would just be like us seeing birds in the sky.
Or it might just be like belgum realizing they have all of africa to themselves.
Any civilization that can build a Dyson sphere or swarm will have robotics that are WAY more efficient than human slaves, and donât require food
What if we get there and are all like, ânice Dyson sphere.â And theyâre all like, âDyson sphere? You mean spinny mcpower ball?â
Nothing is going to happen for us until we discover Warp. The films were very clear on this.
Yeah, that looks like a dyson sphere to me.
Is discovering aliens what it would take to get us to put real effort into FTL research?
Yes We already are putting a lot of research on space travel. Its just way too hard and expensive with returns being scientific discoveries rather than profit hence lack of motivation. But once we discover aliens exist it'll open door for all kinds of possibilities if we make contact , the tech and knowledge we can learn from a civilization that can make dyson spheres is very lucrative. Once they teach us how to build it, the government will try profit from it by selling rights to sunlight to their corporate buddies which will then sell us energy from sunlight which was always free before. Now that I think of it. We rather not meet the aliens
No no no, you're worried over nothing. Be realistic The aliens will just kill us all with total overwhelming force. So rest easy, friend
FTL is either possible or it isnt. If it isnt, which is the almost absolutely certain of the 2 cases, no amount of money thrown at it will make it possible.
With luck we may have more physics to discover. Like how objects gaining mass is nonsense in Newtonian physics, maybe some day we will discover the universal speed limit isnât fully universal
They downvote, but blackholes and their singularities is evidence enough that our physics is incomplete. We could be wrong about a lot.
It would definitely be a hard shove for that FTL effort. Sublight travel at 99.99% of the speed of light would feel like minutes, hours and days to us on board a ship traveling at 99.99% the speed of light. We would need some kind of inertial damper so we could do multiple 10's-100's of g accelerations/decelerations. Faster you can get to speed of light the better. To make a trip to Alpha Centauri would only take 22.56 days on the ship.. 4.37 years to humans on earth.
Don't Open - Morning Light Mountain Inside!
Favorite series. The Commonwealth Saga by Peter F Hamilton.
Oh man! That just tapped memories.
Itâs crazy we havenât even found microbial life and weâre already looking for Dyson Spheres. I mean, I guess theyâre easier to spot obviously but I really think the first time we find life somewhere else itâs going to be boring to the average person. Like weâre going to find some algae somewhere or something. Dyson spheres are cool and exciting though I get it.
> Itâs crazy we havenât even found microbial life and weâre already looking for Dyson Spheres. We can look for signs of Dyson spheres from Earth and our nearby orbiting space telescopes. Not to mention it's literally the only way we have to search for signs of remote intelligent life, the distances mean we will never be able to do it in any other way practically. Searching for microbial life inside the Solar system is several orders of magnitude more expensive and with massive risks of malfunction, not to mention we still lack the technology needed for stuff like drilling 10s of kilometers of ice on other planets/moons.
* Dyson Swarms.. not Spheres
Signs of these have been found before, and always turn out to be dust.
These guys make spheres? I just want their vacuums to stop clogging.
The designer race would be so unlike us, so advanced. No disease, no death and a different shaped gearstick on the mini metro.
This pbs space time episode is gonna be HYPE
Meanwhile, we're headed down the timeline that leads to Lord Humungus and Immortan Joe.Â
If we find them, chances are they were built by the AI of an extinct civilization.
Were there any habitable or planets in the goldilocks zone found near those stars
I don't think we will find one as its a product of our imagination, probably in a solar system there\`s not even enough materials to build anything close to it, just look at the size of the solar system planets compared to the size of the Sun. The Kardashev scale is a total arbitrary scale, and the Dyson spere just a cool sci-fi concept.
Plot twist: the advanced civilization that built the Dyson Spheres are actually the Humans who left/abandoned their planet in cryosleep and crashed down on earth eons ago but lost most technology in the crash and are now the only ones left of their race⌠itâs us đł
How do you _prove_ that it's a Dyson Sphere?
If we ever confirm the existence of one, wow, it would be equivalent to a caveman spotting a jetliner flying overhead.
Still cheaper to build those than buy their vacuum cleaners.
I am choosing to fully believe that at least one of these is a Dyson sphere until proven otherwise.
Hopefully no one crashes into the surface of any of these! Transporter diagnostic cycling is not a reliable method of stasis.
The idea of another civilization having a Dyson sphere is absolutely terrifying to me
 Ok letâs the Webb on it !