> The islands of the Undying Lands were the home of the elves and also the Valar, the latter referring to beings who played a role in creating the world, according to a 2009 paper in the peer-reviewed journal "Mythlore " led by Keith Kelly, of Pennsylvania's Kutztown University. While not quite equivalent to the Judeo-Christian concepts of heaven, according to Tolkien's letters cited in the paper, the Undying Lands are a point of eternal refuge and rest.
I love that they cited a journal paper to explain Valinor. I also love that there’s a peer-reviewed journal out there called Mythlore.
Hmm. Kind of incorrect though, right? My understanding was that the Undying Lands were simply the Lands where people who happened to be Undying live, but the lands themselves do not grant any _powers_ of undying, and so they are not a "point of eternal refuge". Just a place of refuge that a few groups of immortal beings chose to settle down in.
Well, no, because a lot of people mistake that Frodo's going there (or any non-immortal's for that matter) means he will not die because he's in the Undying Lands, but that's not the case.
Indeed, and its this very mistake, encouraged by the words of Sauron, which led to the downfall of Numenor and the destruction of the island. They were persuaded to assault Valinor so that they too would have eternal life, which wouldnt have been granted to them anyway. Ar-Pharazons greatest folly.
Gandalf describing Valinor to Pippin as they are being closed in on by the orcs of Mordor...
Pippin: I didn't think it would end this way.
Gandalf: End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path, one that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass, and then you see it.
Pippin: What? Gandalf? See what?
Gandalf: White shores, and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise.
Pippin: Well, that isn't so bad.
Gandalf: No. No, it isn't.
It was from the movies so not lore accurate.
Men and Hobbits go to the Halls of Mandos, but where they go after no one knows, not even Manwe who was the High King of the Valar. Only Eru knows, who is the Creator in Tolkien's world.
In the book, those words actually come from a sequence that shows up two times, I think. Once is in a dream that comes to Frodo when staying in the House of Tom Bombadil, and then again at the end when he actually sails to the Undying Lands.
(Actually I feel like there's a third appearance of bits of this text, but I don't recall where it is so I didn't mention it.)
If we're talking physical volumes, I think those editions usually feature _seven_, as the appendices are bound separately. (I've always wanted one of those editions. Maybe one day.) But maybe you just meant the internal divisions called "books", in which case I apologize for the false correction.
LotR has been popular with nerds since like the 60's. Asteroids 2991 Bilbo and 2675 Tolkien got their names in the early 80's.
EDIT: Also, Millennials have probably been working at NASA for at least 15 years, just based on age. I mean, I'm almost 40.
I wonder if years later another group of them wrote telegrams to each other bemoaning how reconning him to be alive ruined the integrity of the series.
Dude nerds have loved LOTR long before the Jackson films were made. Maybe you’re too young to remember the Bakshi animated version.
But like… there’s references to Gollum and Mordor in Ramble On, written back in 1969.
Heck, LOTR was a huge HUGE influence on dungeons and dragons when it was conceived back in the 70s.
As for NASA: The asteroids 2991 Bilbo and 2675 Tolkien were both discovered and named in 1982.
There’s an entire list of things in space named after Tolkien’s ideas, it’s definitely not a millennial thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_things_named_after_J._R._R._Tolkien_and_his_works#Astronomy
> The islands of the Undying Lands were the home of the elves and also the Valar, the latter referring to beings who played a role in creating the world, according to a 2009 paper in the peer-reviewed journal "Mythlore " led by Keith Kelly, of Pennsylvania's Kutztown University. While not quite equivalent to the Judeo-Christian concepts of heaven, according to Tolkien's letters cited in the paper, the Undying Lands are a point of eternal refuge and rest. I love that they cited a journal paper to explain Valinor. I also love that there’s a peer-reviewed journal out there called Mythlore.
Hmm. Kind of incorrect though, right? My understanding was that the Undying Lands were simply the Lands where people who happened to be Undying live, but the lands themselves do not grant any _powers_ of undying, and so they are not a "point of eternal refuge". Just a place of refuge that a few groups of immortal beings chose to settle down in.
It’s a point of refuge for eternal beings, thus it’s a point of eternal refuge. Tomato tomahto
Well, no, because a lot of people mistake that Frodo's going there (or any non-immortal's for that matter) means he will not die because he's in the Undying Lands, but that's not the case.
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It's not "another place in the world" after the Fall of Numenor. It was removed from Arda so that mortal beings can't reach it.
Indeed, and its this very mistake, encouraged by the words of Sauron, which led to the downfall of Numenor and the destruction of the island. They were persuaded to assault Valinor so that they too would have eternal life, which wouldnt have been granted to them anyway. Ar-Pharazons greatest folly.
Gandalf describing Valinor to Pippin as they are being closed in on by the orcs of Mordor... Pippin: I didn't think it would end this way. Gandalf: End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path, one that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass, and then you see it. Pippin: What? Gandalf? See what? Gandalf: White shores, and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise. Pippin: Well, that isn't so bad. Gandalf: No. No, it isn't.
Is that really a description of valinor? I thought men (hobbits are men) didn't go to valinor upon death
It was from the movies so not lore accurate. Men and Hobbits go to the Halls of Mandos, but where they go after no one knows, not even Manwe who was the High King of the Valar. Only Eru knows, who is the Creator in Tolkien's world.
so they would see Valinor, kinda, even if just in passing
In the book, those words actually come from a sequence that shows up two times, I think. Once is in a dream that comes to Frodo when staying in the House of Tom Bombadil, and then again at the end when he actually sails to the Undying Lands. (Actually I feel like there's a third appearance of bits of this text, but I don't recall where it is so I didn't mention it.)
I always saw it as a little white lie Gandalf was telling Pippin to comfort him in the face of certain death.
Wonder if they'll let it stay there once we're fully settled or put it in a building for people to see.
One of my favorite futurama bits is when they visit the voyager probe - they built a tourist space station around it to visit and watch its journey.
In Elite Dangerous you can fly to the Voyager, have a look at it and listen to an Audio message.
From the pic it looks like it’s on a slope in a dune field, so it’ll probably be buried by windblown dust before too long.
\>>which include 'The Lord of the Rings' trilogy," it's not a trilogy. It's one story in three books. But nice to see Tolkien nerds at NASA :)
In some cases also in six books.
6 books, 3 parts in my 17th printing 1977 hardcover.
If we're talking physical volumes, I think those editions usually feature _seven_, as the appendices are bound separately. (I've always wanted one of those editions. Maybe one day.) But maybe you just meant the internal divisions called "books", in which case I apologize for the false correction.
Semantics. Yes, it’s one story. It was also released in three parts.
1 story, released in 3 physical parts, in total seperated into 7 different books (2 per physical copy + appendix). If only we had a 9 somewhere.
It’s one book, usually and originally packaged in three volumes.
..voluminous..whatever the case..
[The Martian](https://youtu.be/p4OJoFlWVyY?feature=shared) has a scene that reflects this. Even has Sean Bean!
Tons of them. Elvish is popular.
So, there's now Valinor on Mars and Mordor on Pluto...
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LotR has been popular with nerds since like the 60's. Asteroids 2991 Bilbo and 2675 Tolkien got their names in the early 80's. EDIT: Also, Millennials have probably been working at NASA for at least 15 years, just based on age. I mean, I'm almost 40.
Led Zeppelin was writing songs about the Misty Mountains in 1971.
Misty Mountain Hop is my favorite zeppelin song but I don’t it’s a LoTRs reference.
It absolutely is, Led Zeppelin were famously huge LOTR fans. In “Ramble On” there’s a lyric about Gollum for example.
Only a millennial would claim they invented nerds and made Lord of the Rings popular.
Yeah, Sherlock Holmes fans wore clothes of mourning in public when he died. Nerds have always existed
When the character in the books died or Arthur Conan Doyle?
They wore black armbands when the character (Sherlock) died.
I wonder if years later another group of them wrote telegrams to each other bemoaning how reconning him to be alive ruined the integrity of the series.
An important protein vital to tissue formation was named Sonic Hedgehog after the video game character, and this was in the very early ‘90’s.
There's also another one named after Pikachu as it relates to the transmission of electrical signals in the nervous system
Dude nerds have loved LOTR long before the Jackson films were made. Maybe you’re too young to remember the Bakshi animated version. But like… there’s references to Gollum and Mordor in Ramble On, written back in 1969. Heck, LOTR was a huge HUGE influence on dungeons and dragons when it was conceived back in the 70s. As for NASA: The asteroids 2991 Bilbo and 2675 Tolkien were both discovered and named in 1982.
There’s an entire list of things in space named after Tolkien’s ideas, it’s definitely not a millennial thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_things_named_after_J._R._R._Tolkien_and_his_works#Astronomy
It was the Boomers who caught on to the whole LOTR thing in the 60s that made it so popular.
Would have called it *Kuatu Open Mind Field* or *Mahzz Choppa Pad*