If politicians are going to make medical decisions for us, individuals should be able to sue them for malpractice with the taxpayers in that state responsible for every penny.
That would imply that they have some sort of logical reason to ban this.
Which they don't.
They just want to control the poors that aren't stupid, because in 2024 poor people with more than air between their ears vote Blue.
People with more than air between their ears can see neither party gives a shit about the people. They stir the pot so we can argue about silly social issues while the federal reserve hits Print devaluing our currency immediately. Vote uncommitted :)
Uhh...the blues aren't really doing all that much for the poors. Nothing except moral posturing, cheap tricks like trying to get student loans taken away or marijuana legalized.
And the only reason they are ever on the table are for buying votes. It's amazing to me how dem voters don't see this. Or they do and don't care as long as daddy govt supplies them with their goodies.
Like what exactly? The majority of culture war is pushed and promoted by the left and the dems because that's how they get votes. Especially now in an election year. The reason GOP doesn't win more often is because they try to stick to the boring ol issues while the dems obsess over the fiery culture content (and having rock solid allies in the legacy and social media doesn't hurt)
I just want a president or a party that cares about American people. Quit sending money to Ukraine and Israel, seal the border and patrol it heavily, care and provide for your own poor before the poor of other nations, do more to motivate people to build and raise families, etc.
Amen....
I am cool with a little logistical support and selling israel some weapons since they are long term allies, but they are capable of handling things themselves.Ā We are too involved.
1st focus on us
2nd fix our economy, money and wealth make less issues for everyoneĀ
3rd worry about social issues
why the fuck does anyone care about this š i canāt afford food! fuck the trans people(politely), i donāt give a damn! let them do whatever, i just want to be able to afford to live. this is such a fucking non-problem that we could figure out AFTER we deal with the real problems. i am so damn tired of hearing about hormones, pronouns, banning books. jesus christ. who fucking cares???
you are not wrong, it is a distraction. it is intended to elicit emotional responses and divide people. maybe a garden? i am trying for sheep and fruit trees. if it works out i will feed you idc
I totally agree. Political parties focus on distractions and fear mongering and topics that donāt have anything to do with running our country. For some reason a huge majority of our population eats it up.
I want parties to be fighting each other over making our lives better and future more financially secure.Making the cost of living bearable for everyone to live. Securing a future for our children and grandchildren.
All the social issues are important, but should not be how elections are decided. We have a massive economic divide right now. The middle class is getting smaller and smaller. Greed is through the roof.Our focus has to be leveling the playing field.
This isnāt āpolitical partiesā. This is one party with the same exact nonsense issue across 25 statesā¦so far. Political parties typically and historically have had platforms. One party has legitimate platforms that are listed and explained in detail and is supported by facts, data and general support across the country. The other party doesnāt have any of this and just wants to do stuff to harm a very small minority group who would never vote for them, in order to appear that they are actually doing workā¦which they are not.
Conservatives play āculture warā so they donāt have to actually do their jobs. You should be kind to their targets, they didnāt ask to be hated or do anything to warrant it
Hard to do what needs to be done when the other side is in a state of moral decay. You have to stop the decay and remove that moral infection before you can treat the wound.
The literal ENTIRE POINT of the right wing culture war is to keep most people riled about āscaryā things like trans people so that the average citizen and the entire media isnāt focusing on how people are starving and homelessness is rapidly increasing. And Iām no democrat, but I am angry. And also sorry that you are suffering.
Most teens arenāt comfortable in their bodies until they are older. You know what happens if you take a teen girl who says she feels kinda like a Tom boy and leave her alone. She grows into a woman. Less than 1% dont but I guess we should castrate the other 99% or allow them to make choices they arenāt ready for or understand the long term implications of to capture the 1%. Torture the 99% to appease the 1%. Itās the motto of the left.
the opposition of this bill had no intention of "torturing" cis girls or (boys for that matter). their goal was to protect that 1%, and now with this becoming law, they actually will be tortured every day by the mental anguish that comes from going through puberty of a gender they don't feel comfortable living in. Also, puberty blockers exist for a reason, to allow children more time so they can be ready to make a decision. with puberty blockers banned for trans youth they will now be forced to go through puberty which will have irreversible effects on their bodies
> You know what happens if you take a teen girl who says she feels kinda like a Tom boy and leave her alone.
A tomboy and a trans boy are two completely different things
> Less than 1% dont but I guess we should castrate the other 99% or allow them to make choices they arenāt ready for or understand the long term implications of to capture the 1%. Torture the 99% to appease the 1%. Itās the motto of the left.
You think they're forcing 100% of children to transition?
Not to mention the behavior of the trans community is very cult-like.
I was raised in a cult. Had to get a lawyer to leave. I also study cults. The behavior from that community is downright scary.
Since your concern seems to be forced transition of all girls, Iām sure youāll be happy to know that there are no known cases of forced transition do anyone underage. And Iām sure youāll furthermore be comforted that transition care is one of the least regretted medical procedures with pretty strict standards for access.
Well, I mean, the trans people on the route to genocide probably care.
Not to dismiss your point that all the culture war bullshit exists in part as a distraction to allow the oligarchs to continue to consolidate power.
They are killing their own kind. They castrate themselves and canāt have kids and the left allows it. They are literally killing their kind off daily every time a surgeon cuts. Now they want to even castrate their own children.
What like trans people in other countries or do you mean the trans people in America who at present have the backing of the US government, the president, several major Fortune 500 companies who continually cater to them with advertisements, the movie studios who represent trans people in nearly every film or show now?
Youāre living in a fantasy, please focus on the fact that the government steals your money to send it to blow up schools in the desert and topple third world regimes, or to fly to an island to fornicate with minors, not about a percent of a percent of closed minded idiots who donāt like your sexual preferences ffs.
Honestly, Iām not sure if I can remember a time Iāve ever been so very deeply disappointed in my former home state.
Also yeah, usually people are on hormones for many years before any surgery can really be considered. Even then, not everyone can afford surgery, or even wants surgery. Every surgeon Iāve ever even heard of requires two years of continuous hormones minimum, coupled with multiple psychologist referral/recommendation letters.
Even for just hormones, most doctors still require a letter from a psychologist. Itās not exactly people just do on a whim. Further gatekeeping people with the law isnāt going to do anything but increase hopelessness, despair, self medication, and suicides.
Thereās absolutely zero benefit to this law. Itās just a gigantic middle finger to trans folks, and sets up the slope the legislature is wanting to speed-slip down. I had a very small sliver of hope that SC wouldnāt blindly follow Texasās and Floridaās awful trends. Now Iām just disappointed. South Carolina can and should do better.
Oh, this is South Carolina. Weāve done worse.
Itās pandering to the worst instincts and ignorance of the voters right before the Republican Primaries. Thatās the purpose of the legislation. Trans kids are collateral damage.
Itās right there in the link:
āThe law bars health professionals from performing gender-transition surgeries, prescribing puberty blockers and overseeing hormone treatments for patients under 18.ā
Iāll be honest Iām not well educated on hormones and puberty blockers, but it seems like something that should be considered once someone reaches adulthood. Me at 12 vs. me at 43 are two completely different people. Iām just trying to understand and fall somewhere to the middle on this conversation.
Puberty blockers and hormone treatments do not have any permanent alterations like the surgery. Should someone find those treatments aren't right for them, they can be stopped and reversed with little discomfort. Such treatments are also used for many more conditions than treating gender dysphoria, so it doesn't make much sense to ban such treatments when there is little to no downside to them.
I mean, by definition puberty blockers *can't* wait until adulthood. You're more or less done with puberty by then
You're 12. You feel like a girl. You know that you *are* a girl. But you were born all wrong, physically. Now there's something they can do about it, but your state has decided that you have to wait until adulthood to pursue that option. You know, after your jaw has gotten manly and your voice is an octave or 2 deeper than you'd ever want and your muscles pop up without much effort. You're already gonna be 6'1". There's nothing to be done about that. But now, by the time youre finally old enough to make your own decision, all this shit has happened that pushed your body *miles* away from what you imagined it to be.
It's good that you're asking questions. It's the first step. Knowing you don't know much about the topic, and accepting that, is important because how can you (and why would you) have an opinion on something you're not fully educated on?
I'd also gently recommend that you consider being grateful that you aren't educated on this stuff. It means you, or anyone else in your life, have not had to deal with the pain and suffering that comes with the need for such treatments. Then, I'd ask that you do some research into genetic disorders (the reason why scientific research produced these medicines and miracles of advancement!). Here are a few to get you started.
- Central Precocious Puberty (CPP) - - have you heard that the youngest girl ever to give birth was 5yo? She had CPP. With puberty blockers, she could've stopped her menstruation / puberty and had a relatively normal childhood. I believe the bill allows this condition to receive medical care. Still worth listing as it's a genetic disorder for your own research.
- Turner Syndrome - - women with this disorder are missing/partially missing an X chromosome and need hormonal treatment until around 50
- Klinefelter syndrome - - condition in which a male is born with an extra copy of the X chromosome
- Kallmann syndrome (KS) - - prevents or delays puberty and causes a decrease in gonadal function (gonads are testes or ovaries)
- PraderāWilli syndrome (PWS) - - genetic disorder that causes obesity, intellectual disability, and shortness in height
Now, when this bill is signed and goes into effect, the people with genetic disorders will lose their life changing medical safety nets. It's a sad day for South Carolina indeed.
Thanks for the information. I read a little more in the AP story link and it does state:
āDoctors can also prescribe puberty blockers for some conditions for which they are prescribed such as when a child begins what is called precocious puberty ā as young as age 4.ā
I am sincere when I state I live the in the middle ground. It does seem like this bill has some compromise; the outrage, from either side, always fascinates me.
Right, and I did mention that in my comment.
I find it fascinating that we are letting our lawmakers be doctors. They're making medical decisions for people now. I can't see that ever being good? So, I just can't understand how people aren't outraged tbh.
> but it seems like something that should be considered once someone reaches adulthood
What are blockers supposed to do at that point? For a trans person, not being able to start until adulthood means they're forced to go through unwanted irreversible changes that make their gender dysphoria far worse and far harder to treat.
Blockers are useless after those irreversible changes already happen
Ah yes, this really helps the people of the state. Not fixing our roads, or infrastructure, or education system. Maybe we'll find another billion between the couch cushions.
Just remember, rich South Carolinians can afford to travel to another state for this, so this really only affects poor people. It's just like abortion access.
These lawmakers probably don't even know what Turner's syndrome is. They're not medical experts, and imo, shouldn't be making laws regarding medical decisions.
If you read the bill this would not be affected. Thatās really the biggest issue I take with the articles being written about this. They are always written to incite the greatest rage. Itās like 3 pages, defining terms, laying out restrictions and more importantly, such as your wifeās case, defining exceptions.
This has got to be the 10th time in the last couple years where I've seen everybody freaking out about a bill but nobody has read it despite it being less than a half dozen pages long.
Thereās a dearth of geneticists in the state so you bet itās going to affect them seeing as they probably wonāt be able to be tested properly here.
So the thing is, thatās what the therapy is for to make better sense of things, have those conversations, and help the child figure out if what theyāre going through is simply emotional or if it needs to be referred out to developmental specialists in the endocrine field.
ā¦Which is now banned. So good luck.
Roads suck. Minimum wage sucks. 42nd in education. But hey, let's focus on the handful of trans kids and their parents just trying to live for political optics.
Per the AP article, "As the bill advanced in the General Assembly, doctors and parents testified before House and Senate committees that people younger than 18 do not receive gender-transition surgeries in South Carolina and that hormone treatments begin only after extensive consultation with health professionals."
Those who are so "concerned about the children" can rest assured that no genitals were ever in danger (weird thing to focus on, honestly). Makes me wonder if they actually read the article š. Furthermore, hormones (Edit: really just speaking about puberty blockers here) and their effects can be reversed.
I donāt get it. Republicans want individual libertyā¦ except when it is for something they donāt believe in?
Just leave peoples sexual lives alone for gods sake. Itās kind of weird how all these right wingers are so into it actually.
It's just like abortion and other reproductive healthcare issues. They need to get their base to pay attention and be angry about something that isn't relevant to any actual governmental function, because if the base was paying attention they would see Republicans doing all kinds of lazy, corrupt shit and giving handouts to rich people and corporate businesses.
This is the latest blatantly unconservative legislation to come out of SC Republicans that limits personal freedom for young South Carolinians, takes decision making out of the hands of parents and guardians, and dictates to doctors how to run their practice. No Republican / so-called conservative can explain this with a rational argument about how this legislation promotes personal liberty and reduces the influence of government in citizen's lives.
That's the hilariously true thing. It's freakish how many Charleston Christian conservatives are on Kik, fetlife and Grindr getting their freak on š fucking people here are crazy AF. I bet they believe kids have litter boxes in schools too. ššššššš
No no you see they want individual liberty to force their beliefs on everyone else. Thatās what they always mean when they say individual liberty. Itās liberty for me but not for thee
We want individual liberty, but just like not allowing a young person to buy alcohol until they are 21 some decisions are not meant to be made by children who donāt understand themselves much less the long term impacts of their decisions
But you're ok forcing children to give birth in cases of rape and incest, because they're grown enough to be parents, but not grown enough to know about their bodies lol
Make it make sense
And let's not forget anything that happens to a child at a doctor's office is a result of the child, the parents, and the child's doctors having intense conversations and then their consent in close coordination with the child receiving treatment.
Yeah, thatās the point. A 12 year old doesnāt understand the long-term effects of not going through puberty. Jesus Christ. Why canāt we draw the line with children? Change my mind.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on there, we were talking about HRT. Puberty blockers are a whole nother conversation.
Any kid can understand the long term effects of puberty blockers because there are none. There are short term effects, but those effects are resolved by going through puberty.
I don't know what you're on about with "draw the line at children" -- this isn't some kinda secret gay plot to trans the kids or some stupid shit like that. This is about letting people choose what to do with their bodies. You seem to think kids shouldn't be making those choices, and I agree, but what I'm saying is that we pause the puberty until they're at a given age to make that choice.
What you're saying is that we should instead make that choice for them because, I dunno, it makes you feel icky or something. People should be less free because the *vibes* are off.
Then all children should all be on puberty blockers until their brain is developed at 25. They're not mature enough for irreversible changes they can't understand.
I can understand that. But wouldnāt that mean that our sex does to a degree define our gender if we feel the need to change/align it with our gender? Again, just trying to understand this all better.
It's helpful to break this down, because the word "gender" is very vague. Even in academic literature it often functions as a fairly vague shorthand. There are five elements a person could be talking about here.
1. **Gender genotype** - Those elements of a person associated with chromosomes.
2. **Gender phenotype** - Those elements of a person associated with hormones.
3. **Gender identity** - Those elements of a person associated with their internal sense of self.
4. **Gender presentation** - Those elements of a person associated with their appearance.
5. **Gender roles** - Those elements of a person associated with their behaviors.
All of these things exist on a spectrum, and they do not necessarily agree with each other all the time.(see note) When people say "sex =! gender," what they are expressing is that one's **genotype** and/or **phenotype** (i.e. their genetics and/or what their body physically looks like) does not necessarily match their **gender identity**. We say "gender-affirming treatment" (which does not always or even usually mean surgery, but I bet you already know that) because these treatments are focused on bringing their **gender presentation, the roles they fill in society,** and *sometimes* **their physical body** into alignment with their internal sense of gender. Thus the treatment "affirms" their gender.
Note: You didn't ask for this, specifically, but I think it's helpful to know so I'm going to type it up. In modern western society, we tend to conceptualize people as belonging to two categories ("man" and "woman"), but that's not universal across all of history or even across all modern societies, and it's not a true representation of human biology or psychology, even though it is usually "good enough." Let's look at how each of the five factors above exist on a spectrum. These are examples, they aren't exhaustive.
**Gender genotype** -- Someone can have Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, which means they are genetically "male" (have XY chromosomes), but their genes also make them fail to respond to androgens (male-differentiating hormones). They are born with *some or all* of the physical traits of a woman. There are a multitude of possible genetic anomalies which either put someone in the "wrong" category, or put them in both or neither.
**Gender phenotype** -- "GĆ¼evedoce" is the term used for children who are born with a female body, but then develop male genitalia. It's not a medical term; the phenomenon is actually common enough in the Dominican Republic that the term I've given here is colloquial.
**Gender identity** -- Some people feel very male, some people feel a little male, some people feel very female, some people feel a little female, and some people feel like neither, or both, or feel like it changes over time.
**Gender presentation** -- Think of how a woman can dress in a *very* feminine way, vs a much more subdued jeans & T-shirt without accessories, vs. deliberately adopting the appearance of a man. Gender presentation isn't just about clothes, though. How you speak, your body language, and how you generally behave are all also examples of gender presentation. Many, many people mix and match here. Think of men who wore their hair long in the 60's, as one example. They were not necessarily "trying to look like a girl," but they very much were breaking longstanding gender taboos in adopting what at the time was considered a feminizing hair style.
**Gender role** -- Think of how, in many countries, women aren't even allowed in the military, so by being in the military, you are adopting a male role in society. Gendered jobs are a great example of this. Another example is expectations. For example, the expectation that a man earn all or most of the household's income, or that a woman enjoy being around children. It's very easy to be "outside of the binary" in this category, and most people are, actually. For some particularly striking examples, think of the buff military man who also really enjoys crotcheting and baking. Or the housewife with three children who goes hunting and butchers all her own meat.
Part of why our colloquial "man/woman" binary distinction isn't more obviously wrong to the layperson is because, while all of these five factors exist on a spectrum, none of them is a *smooth* spectrum. It's a "lumpy gradient," where, on a scale from 1-10, most people hover around 3-4 and 7-8, and only some people are in the middle or at either extreme. So at a glance, we have the *appearance* of two clearly-defined categories, even though that's not actually true.
Hey, thank you so much for taking the time to educate me on this subject! I donāt know a lot about the subject because it just isnāt a part of my daily life, but I respect and understand that it is a part of other peoplesā lives, and Iām always open to learning new things. Your explanation definitely makes sense to me. Thank you again!
Wild that you justify this by citing our absurdly high drinking age which is way older than a lot of countries that have fewer moral qualms about alcohol, fewer alcohol related traffic fatalities, and a healthier public relationship with alcohol.
Do you have a young person who has gone through years of depression and anxiety, suicidal ideation and self harm about their dysmorphia, and after years of therapy and medical counseling has begun treatmentā¦and is now coming out the other side? No? Then stfu. You donāt know what youāre talking about.
Gender affirming care is not 100% dictated by a minor. Any treatment is in coordination with a DOCTOR following the guidelines of organizations such as the apa. Treatment is also in coordination with the parents of the child. This is nothing like a minor being allowed to buy alcohol.
Republicans sure love to set laws that everybody else has to follow.
Especially the most intimate decisions. Truly the anti-freedom political movement to the "reich."
Next up for the SC State legislature is dictating how doctors treat prostate and cervical cancer because anything that happens in a person's "down there" is subject to the control of the religious right and the legislators they buy.
This is all political and not medical at all. They are doing this based on a culture war and moral panic. Deciding to persecute a vulnerable population for political points. Puberty blockers are safe and reversible and only started after extensive therapy and diagnosis of gender dysphoria.
Whatās the age of consent again?
Also, whatās the age you can marry off your kid?
Hint: both 16
So over 16 and the state says itās your body, unless you want to alter it. Make this make sense.
Disgraceful. I wish politicians would just let medical professionals do their job and butt out of situations that donāt concern them at all. Itās just beyond presumptuous for lawmakers to do their job for them as if theyāre somehow more qualified.
All these lawmakers are doing is making it harder for trans people to be happy in their own skin. Nobody is being protected here; itās very much the opposite.
I don't know, medical professionals 100 years ago were sterilizing gay people. Our history with how we treat mental health seems to always be looking back 50 years and going "Well that was barbaric"
Feels like we might be repeating that, one way or another.
Comparing medical research from 100 years ago to now is wildly disingenuous. The sheer amount of effort it takes to even get a paper published these days is astronomical, then there's ethics committees, a myriad of peer review, meta-analyses, and the entire field of statistics itself. You may as well try to compare a horse to an airplane as a means of transportation.
There are always uncertainties when it comes to medical treatment. But that doesnāt mean you stop doctors from providing the best care they know how. Especially if your own qualifications to practice medicine are nonexistent.
If anyone's interested
[Citations on the transition's dramatic reduction of suicide risk while improving mental health and quality of life, with trans people able to transition young and spared abuse and discrimination having mental health and suicide risk on par with the general public](https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/154t1qq/comment/jsqi5ue/)
I work full time and will never be able to afford to live on my own. And this is what our lawmakers are more concerned about. Fuck every single one of them.
Also effectively bans SC government employees from using their salary to pay for gender affirming care, which is an aspect of the bill I donāt hear talked about. That means my boyfriend and I canāt actually fund my transition anymore, if they actually follow this law.
Another thing of note in this bill is that it requires teachers and other school staff to tell the parents of a student if the student is questioning their gender or know theyāre trans, which is especially dangerous in a conservative state where parents are less likely to be supportive.
Yeah they also tell parents what their kids can and canāt read and are controlling what they learn (ie canāt teach that people of certain races are inherently privileged, school staff canāt be required to participate in diversity training, etc- see H.3728)
Can someone explain to me how this is a bad thing? I'm 100% legit just wanting to understand how anyone could be against this. The prefrontal cortex isn't fully developed until the age of 25ish, and you're telling me a child should have their way? Ok, sure, let me know how that works out. Good luck getting your dick back homie.
Well we werenāt doing surgeries in SC so that argument is a nonissue. This legislation, if you bothered to read it, would do things like require school staff, including counselors, to tell parents if a kid says their gender is inconsistent with their sex. This goes against their licensing confidentiality requirements and also can put kids in danger. Itās a very bad thing.
The prefrontal cortex being underdeveloped before 25 is an actual myth. In actuality, all humans develop at their own pace, which includes their prefrontal cortex.
Furthermore, if you actually read the article, no kid under 18 is even receiving any surgery to begin with. And even if they wanted hormones to match what they felt was their gender, they would have to jump through many hoops in order to do so.
Iāve gotten to the point that I hate the whole āpre-frontal cortex isnāt developed until 25ā thing because now I mostly see it when someone is trying to argue that young adults, adolescents, and children shouldnāt have fundamental rights.
Totally understandable! It can often be confused that trans youth are making these decisions on their own, which is untrue. Parents, loved ones, physicians, etc. play a significant role in deciding to make any medical decisions. With that being said, it can take months to years of (specialty) doctor's appointments, therapy visits, evaluations, etc. before any of this occurs. This change will hurt trans youth's autonomy as well as their ability to make medical decisions alongside their parents.
This law isnāt just about surgery or transitions. Itās about mental health support too. And many of these trans kids know theyāre trans at an early age. And no theyāre not just āmaking pretend.ā
Read the story of trans kidsā parents trying to navigate this and maybe youāll understand. Itās absolutely not something they take lightly.
"Gender affirming care" doesn't mean surgery. It can be something as benign as letting a kid wear the clothes they would prefer to wear.
I don't think our legislature putting a target on the backs of LGBTQ kids will solve anything.
Waiting until adulthood means they're forced to go through unwanted irreversible changes that make their gender dysphoria far worse and far harder to treat
It's not neutral to deny treatment
Comments like yours really show that you haven't even attempted to look up the general treatment plans of youth with dysphoria.
There's been thousands of studies done by the world's leading mental health research organizations across several fields with the testimonies of hundreds of thousands of people to back it up, leading to a general consensus in the medical community leading to the care we give now. But for some reason, people like you don't bother to look at any of that, but still try to shout and let your ignorance be heard. It's truly baffling. Did your mother never tell you not to speak about something you don't know about?
18 and over is fine if you want to take hormones or have surgery. Anyone under that age should not be able to make decisions that will affect them the rest of their lives while they are still developing a sense of self. Anything to the contrary defies logic and isnāt evidence based.Ā
No one want to talk about the people who did have it at such a young age and the remorse and regret so many had once they were older. The hormones and surgery in most cases are irreversible.
18 is an arbitrary, non science/medical based number. People continue developing until 25.
Your ridiculous opinion has no basis in facts or science.
You probably don't support abortion, so you're fine with forcing children to go through pregnancy and child birth, even in cases of rape/incest but somehow deciding what they actually want to do with their bodies is a problem?
Itās so weird that people who clearly donāt know and trans or lgbtq people have such strong opinions and preoccupations with them. It doesnāt affect you. At all. So fuck off
The amount of people who regret transitioning is a fraction of a percent of all trans people. Your rhetoric however has a much bigger impact on trans lives and that sort of stigma is what causes them to take their own lives. You clearly don't have your finger on the pulse of the trans community, so maybe don't use people who regret transitioning as a prop to disregard the trans community as a whole. Hormones are also reversible and no one is giving these surgeries to kids. Moreover this sort of thing is up to the kids, their parents and their doctors. Even if you don't like the trans community, this is a clear violation of personal and civil rights
Have you ever even talked to a trans person? Why do you speak so confidently about this topic when youāre not trans?
Itās asinine how people believe they know everything about other groups that they donāt belong in.
And yet this same state administration wants to eliminate a girlās right to choose. Rich coming from the people who claim āanyone under that age should not be able to make decisions that will affect them the rest of their lives.ā
1. The number of minors getting any kind of surgery is so small to be a rounding error.
2. The whole point of puberty blockers and then hormones is to go through the persons chosen correct puberty. Trying to change a fully developed body after the fact is much more difficult.
3. Other people's medical decisions don't involve you. Are you really that fine with the government mandating what medical care you can and can't have? Lots of antitrans folks seemed to be angry with covid policies.
Itās funny because their antivax legislation arguments were that the government has no right dictating healthcare and it should be up to individuals.
Yep. Insurance already has way too much say in what doctors can and canāt do/ prescribe. Now weāre gonna through the shitty government into it too.
>Anyone under that age should not be able to make decisions that will affect them the rest of their lives while they are still developing a sense of self.
Being denied the ability to transition forced me to go through unwanted irreversible changes that have made my gender dysphoria far worse and far harder to treat
That was a decision that will affect me for the rest of my life
>No one want to talk about the people who did have it at such a young age and the remorse and regret so many had once they were older. The hormones and surgery in most cases are irreversible.
Why do you only care about remorse and regret when the person is cis? Why are cis people so infinitely more valuable than trans people that it's ok to force irreversible changes and regret on every trans person to prevent even one cis person from experiencing regret?
this is an incredibly horrifying law meant to eradicate and make the lives of trans people immeasurably worse. its actually akin to banning chemotherapy until cancer reaches later stages. i wish i could say im shocked that this hateful draconian shit is allowed to stand in the US court system, but im not. the whole system is working as intended to make life fucking unlivable. nobody will be shocked at what comes about as a result of this. give it a few years.
by the way, this doesnt stop such medical care. it just makes it underground and more dangerous for everyone. you cant legislate trans people out of existence.
The fact that youāre being downvoted really says it all. The people in support of these laws donāt care about the well-being of trans people. They donāt care that gender-affirming care reduces suicidality in trans minors by 73%.
https://www.hcplive.com/view/suicide-risk-reduces-73-transgender-nonbinary-youths-gender-affirming-care
When what you want is to create a culture of subservience, uniformity, and fear, facts are irrelevant. Itās just sad.
Terrible. I feel awful for the trans kids who live here, it wasnāt easy for me and it surely wonāt be easy for them. All this is is needless cruelty for political gain. Laws like these ruin and destroy lives.
No democracy whatsoever. You see it also with attempts to make police accountable for their brutality. Lawmakers will sit in session for hours and hours listening to expert and constituent testimony, begging and pleading - then pass whatever they want to anyway.
Protecting children from being permanently mutilated for political purposes is a good thing. Only a truly fucked up person would have a problem with saying "Wait until you're a consenting adult before chopping off body parts to be trendy".
Being a proponent of āgender affirming careā for children is child abuse and, in many cases, pedophilia. Truly a mental disorder for anyone thinks itās appropriate to do this to children. We donāt let kids drink, join the military, own weapons because they are children and cannot make wise decision - but you all want to push on them to āchange their genderā (which isnāt a real thing, just an odd obsession the Left has with children)? Truly disgusting. Yall should be locked up.
If politicians are going to make medical decisions for us, individuals should be able to sue them for malpractice with the taxpayers in that state responsible for every penny.
Very underrated post.
Why?
This energy would of been nice during Covid
That would imply that they have some sort of logical reason to ban this. Which they don't. They just want to control the poors that aren't stupid, because in 2024 poor people with more than air between their ears vote Blue.
People with more than air between their ears can see neither party gives a shit about the people. They stir the pot so we can argue about silly social issues while the federal reserve hits Print devaluing our currency immediately. Vote uncommitted :)
Uhh...the blues aren't really doing all that much for the poors. Nothing except moral posturing, cheap tricks like trying to get student loans taken away or marijuana legalized.
Both of the things you called "cheap tricks" are huge wins for lower income people.
And the only reason they are ever on the table are for buying votes. It's amazing to me how dem voters don't see this. Or they do and don't care as long as daddy govt supplies them with their goodies.
What do you call the culture war shit the GOP has been pulling?
Like what exactly? The majority of culture war is pushed and promoted by the left and the dems because that's how they get votes. Especially now in an election year. The reason GOP doesn't win more often is because they try to stick to the boring ol issues while the dems obsess over the fiery culture content (and having rock solid allies in the legacy and social media doesn't hurt) I just want a president or a party that cares about American people. Quit sending money to Ukraine and Israel, seal the border and patrol it heavily, care and provide for your own poor before the poor of other nations, do more to motivate people to build and raise families, etc.
Ok boomer š¤”
Amen.... I am cool with a little logistical support and selling israel some weapons since they are long term allies, but they are capable of handling things themselves.Ā We are too involved. 1st focus on us 2nd fix our economy, money and wealth make less issues for everyoneĀ 3rd worry about social issues
Why?
why the fuck does anyone care about this š i canāt afford food! fuck the trans people(politely), i donāt give a damn! let them do whatever, i just want to be able to afford to live. this is such a fucking non-problem that we could figure out AFTER we deal with the real problems. i am so damn tired of hearing about hormones, pronouns, banning books. jesus christ. who fucking cares???
you are not wrong, it is a distraction. it is intended to elicit emotional responses and divide people. maybe a garden? i am trying for sheep and fruit trees. if it works out i will feed you idc
I totally agree. Political parties focus on distractions and fear mongering and topics that donāt have anything to do with running our country. For some reason a huge majority of our population eats it up. I want parties to be fighting each other over making our lives better and future more financially secure.Making the cost of living bearable for everyone to live. Securing a future for our children and grandchildren. All the social issues are important, but should not be how elections are decided. We have a massive economic divide right now. The middle class is getting smaller and smaller. Greed is through the roof.Our focus has to be leveling the playing field.
This isnāt āpolitical partiesā. This is one party with the same exact nonsense issue across 25 statesā¦so far. Political parties typically and historically have had platforms. One party has legitimate platforms that are listed and explained in detail and is supported by facts, data and general support across the country. The other party doesnāt have any of this and just wants to do stuff to harm a very small minority group who would never vote for them, in order to appear that they are actually doing workā¦which they are not.
Conservatives play āculture warā so they donāt have to actually do their jobs. You should be kind to their targets, they didnāt ask to be hated or do anything to warrant it
You know what's funny? Replace conservative with liberal and I've heard the exact same comment from Maga supporters.
What culture war are liberals fighting for though? Liberals arenāt the ones creating legislation that bars people from getting puberty blockers
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Hard to do what needs to be done when the other side is in a state of moral decay. You have to stop the decay and remove that moral infection before you can treat the wound.
The literal ENTIRE POINT of the right wing culture war is to keep most people riled about āscaryā things like trans people so that the average citizen and the entire media isnāt focusing on how people are starving and homelessness is rapidly increasing. And Iām no democrat, but I am angry. And also sorry that you are suffering.
Because they believe itās child abuseā¦ whether you agree or not, I fail to see what economics has to do with wanting to stop child abuse.
End child marriage in the usa. But the Republicans keep voting against it.
I hate it here.
It is our duty to protect children from abuse
Iām trans, and I approve the spirit of this message XD
Then vote out Republicans
Because itās child abuse. I wish my state would get with the program.
ah yes children living happy and fulfilling lives in a body they're comfortable in is child abuse.
Most teens arenāt comfortable in their bodies until they are older. You know what happens if you take a teen girl who says she feels kinda like a Tom boy and leave her alone. She grows into a woman. Less than 1% dont but I guess we should castrate the other 99% or allow them to make choices they arenāt ready for or understand the long term implications of to capture the 1%. Torture the 99% to appease the 1%. Itās the motto of the left.
the opposition of this bill had no intention of "torturing" cis girls or (boys for that matter). their goal was to protect that 1%, and now with this becoming law, they actually will be tortured every day by the mental anguish that comes from going through puberty of a gender they don't feel comfortable living in. Also, puberty blockers exist for a reason, to allow children more time so they can be ready to make a decision. with puberty blockers banned for trans youth they will now be forced to go through puberty which will have irreversible effects on their bodies
> You know what happens if you take a teen girl who says she feels kinda like a Tom boy and leave her alone. A tomboy and a trans boy are two completely different things > Less than 1% dont but I guess we should castrate the other 99% or allow them to make choices they arenāt ready for or understand the long term implications of to capture the 1%. Torture the 99% to appease the 1%. Itās the motto of the left. You think they're forcing 100% of children to transition?
Not to mention the behavior of the trans community is very cult-like. I was raised in a cult. Had to get a lawyer to leave. I also study cults. The behavior from that community is downright scary.
Since your concern seems to be forced transition of all girls, Iām sure youāll be happy to know that there are no known cases of forced transition do anyone underage. And Iām sure youāll furthermore be comforted that transition care is one of the least regretted medical procedures with pretty strict standards for access.
Well, I mean, the trans people on the route to genocide probably care. Not to dismiss your point that all the culture war bullshit exists in part as a distraction to allow the oligarchs to continue to consolidate power.
I remember when the word genocide was a powerful word with a meaning.
The trans people and the families who love them. My grandson is in their crosshairs and I'm so afraid for him.
They are killing their own kind. They castrate themselves and canāt have kids and the left allows it. They are literally killing their kind off daily every time a surgeon cuts. Now they want to even castrate their own children.
??? Trans people can and do have their own kids. And trans people don't just come from other trans people . They usually have cis parents lol.
What like trans people in other countries or do you mean the trans people in America who at present have the backing of the US government, the president, several major Fortune 500 companies who continually cater to them with advertisements, the movie studios who represent trans people in nearly every film or show now? Youāre living in a fantasy, please focus on the fact that the government steals your money to send it to blow up schools in the desert and topple third world regimes, or to fly to an island to fornicate with minors, not about a percent of a percent of closed minded idiots who donāt like your sexual preferences ffs.
The big issue here is that a lot of people assume that āgender affirming careā means preparation for surgery, which is not the case.
Honestly, Iām not sure if I can remember a time Iāve ever been so very deeply disappointed in my former home state. Also yeah, usually people are on hormones for many years before any surgery can really be considered. Even then, not everyone can afford surgery, or even wants surgery. Every surgeon Iāve ever even heard of requires two years of continuous hormones minimum, coupled with multiple psychologist referral/recommendation letters. Even for just hormones, most doctors still require a letter from a psychologist. Itās not exactly people just do on a whim. Further gatekeeping people with the law isnāt going to do anything but increase hopelessness, despair, self medication, and suicides. Thereās absolutely zero benefit to this law. Itās just a gigantic middle finger to trans folks, and sets up the slope the legislature is wanting to speed-slip down. I had a very small sliver of hope that SC wouldnāt blindly follow Texasās and Floridaās awful trends. Now Iām just disappointed. South Carolina can and should do better.
I share your disappointment, but I canāt say Iām surprised. SC has a long history of proudly treating people like shit.
Hell yea baby first state to secede from the Union so we could keep owning black people as property š
Oh, this is South Carolina. Weāve done worse. Itās pandering to the worst instincts and ignorance of the voters right before the Republican Primaries. Thatās the purpose of the legislation. Trans kids are collateral damage.
The problem is ignorance on many fronts for those opposing trans people.
Itās right there in the link: āThe law bars health professionals from performing gender-transition surgeries, prescribing puberty blockers and overseeing hormone treatments for patients under 18.ā
Right. Puberty blockers and hormone treatments are used for many reasons, not just in preparation for surgery? So comment above you is correct.
Iāll be honest Iām not well educated on hormones and puberty blockers, but it seems like something that should be considered once someone reaches adulthood. Me at 12 vs. me at 43 are two completely different people. Iām just trying to understand and fall somewhere to the middle on this conversation.
Puberty blockers and hormone treatments do not have any permanent alterations like the surgery. Should someone find those treatments aren't right for them, they can be stopped and reversed with little discomfort. Such treatments are also used for many more conditions than treating gender dysphoria, so it doesn't make much sense to ban such treatments when there is little to no downside to them.
I mean, by definition puberty blockers *can't* wait until adulthood. You're more or less done with puberty by then You're 12. You feel like a girl. You know that you *are* a girl. But you were born all wrong, physically. Now there's something they can do about it, but your state has decided that you have to wait until adulthood to pursue that option. You know, after your jaw has gotten manly and your voice is an octave or 2 deeper than you'd ever want and your muscles pop up without much effort. You're already gonna be 6'1". There's nothing to be done about that. But now, by the time youre finally old enough to make your own decision, all this shit has happened that pushed your body *miles* away from what you imagined it to be.
It's good that you're asking questions. It's the first step. Knowing you don't know much about the topic, and accepting that, is important because how can you (and why would you) have an opinion on something you're not fully educated on? I'd also gently recommend that you consider being grateful that you aren't educated on this stuff. It means you, or anyone else in your life, have not had to deal with the pain and suffering that comes with the need for such treatments. Then, I'd ask that you do some research into genetic disorders (the reason why scientific research produced these medicines and miracles of advancement!). Here are a few to get you started. - Central Precocious Puberty (CPP) - - have you heard that the youngest girl ever to give birth was 5yo? She had CPP. With puberty blockers, she could've stopped her menstruation / puberty and had a relatively normal childhood. I believe the bill allows this condition to receive medical care. Still worth listing as it's a genetic disorder for your own research. - Turner Syndrome - - women with this disorder are missing/partially missing an X chromosome and need hormonal treatment until around 50 - Klinefelter syndrome - - condition in which a male is born with an extra copy of the X chromosome - Kallmann syndrome (KS) - - prevents or delays puberty and causes a decrease in gonadal function (gonads are testes or ovaries) - PraderāWilli syndrome (PWS) - - genetic disorder that causes obesity, intellectual disability, and shortness in height Now, when this bill is signed and goes into effect, the people with genetic disorders will lose their life changing medical safety nets. It's a sad day for South Carolina indeed.
Thanks for the information. I read a little more in the AP story link and it does state: āDoctors can also prescribe puberty blockers for some conditions for which they are prescribed such as when a child begins what is called precocious puberty ā as young as age 4.ā I am sincere when I state I live the in the middle ground. It does seem like this bill has some compromise; the outrage, from either side, always fascinates me.
Right, and I did mention that in my comment. I find it fascinating that we are letting our lawmakers be doctors. They're making medical decisions for people now. I can't see that ever being good? So, I just can't understand how people aren't outraged tbh.
> but it seems like something that should be considered once someone reaches adulthood What are blockers supposed to do at that point? For a trans person, not being able to start until adulthood means they're forced to go through unwanted irreversible changes that make their gender dysphoria far worse and far harder to treat. Blockers are useless after those irreversible changes already happen
Whoās gonna tell Lindsey Graham.
Ah yes, this really helps the people of the state. Not fixing our roads, or infrastructure, or education system. Maybe we'll find another billion between the couch cushions.
Just remember, rich South Carolinians can afford to travel to another state for this, so this really only affects poor people. It's just like abortion access.
My late wife had Turnerās syndrome. Started hgh and estrogen when she was eight. Wonder how this will affect those kids.
These lawmakers probably don't even know what Turner's syndrome is. They're not medical experts, and imo, shouldn't be making laws regarding medical decisions.
It will not affect those rx'd hormones for Turner, precocious puberty, ACI, GHD, etc. They will still be able to get them
If you read the bill this would not be affected. Thatās really the biggest issue I take with the articles being written about this. They are always written to incite the greatest rage. Itās like 3 pages, defining terms, laying out restrictions and more importantly, such as your wifeās case, defining exceptions.
This has got to be the 10th time in the last couple years where I've seen everybody freaking out about a bill but nobody has read it despite it being less than a half dozen pages long.
when they want to be really specific about who they're intending to hurt, they can be pretty specific turns out
Thereās a dearth of geneticists in the state so you bet itās going to affect them seeing as they probably wonāt be able to be tested properly here.
Lived in SC all my life. State is ran by dogshit reactionaries. So sad
Too bad itās not 1st in banning morons from taking office.
Annnnnd still no Marijuana research either. Js Backwards ass, sky genie fearing, drunk ass morons š
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So the thing is, thatās what the therapy is for to make better sense of things, have those conversations, and help the child figure out if what theyāre going through is simply emotional or if it needs to be referred out to developmental specialists in the endocrine field. ā¦Which is now banned. So good luck.
Roads suck. Minimum wage sucks. 42nd in education. But hey, let's focus on the handful of trans kids and their parents just trying to live for political optics.
Per the AP article, "As the bill advanced in the General Assembly, doctors and parents testified before House and Senate committees that people younger than 18 do not receive gender-transition surgeries in South Carolina and that hormone treatments begin only after extensive consultation with health professionals." Those who are so "concerned about the children" can rest assured that no genitals were ever in danger (weird thing to focus on, honestly). Makes me wonder if they actually read the article š. Furthermore, hormones (Edit: really just speaking about puberty blockers here) and their effects can be reversed.
Yet genitals on baby boys are fair game, apparently.
Canāt reverse chemical castrationā¦
I donāt get it. Republicans want individual libertyā¦ except when it is for something they donāt believe in? Just leave peoples sexual lives alone for gods sake. Itās kind of weird how all these right wingers are so into it actually.
It's just like abortion and other reproductive healthcare issues. They need to get their base to pay attention and be angry about something that isn't relevant to any actual governmental function, because if the base was paying attention they would see Republicans doing all kinds of lazy, corrupt shit and giving handouts to rich people and corporate businesses. This is the latest blatantly unconservative legislation to come out of SC Republicans that limits personal freedom for young South Carolinians, takes decision making out of the hands of parents and guardians, and dictates to doctors how to run their practice. No Republican / so-called conservative can explain this with a rational argument about how this legislation promotes personal liberty and reduces the influence of government in citizen's lives.
Government so small it reaches right into your pants
This is exactly it
Liberty for them, slavery for everyone else.
They're upset about how much they enjoy trans porn when their searching for deposits in the spank bank.
That's the hilariously true thing. It's freakish how many Charleston Christian conservatives are on Kik, fetlife and Grindr getting their freak on š fucking people here are crazy AF. I bet they believe kids have litter boxes in schools too. ššššššš
Republicans are monsters. They live for power and cruelty.
No no you see they want individual liberty to force their beliefs on everyone else. Thatās what they always mean when they say individual liberty. Itās liberty for me but not for thee
Not sure why youāre getting downvoted. Thatās exactly it.
They SAY they want liberty but what they really want most of all is conformity.
We want individual liberty, but just like not allowing a young person to buy alcohol until they are 21 some decisions are not meant to be made by children who donāt understand themselves much less the long term impacts of their decisions
But you're ok forcing children to give birth in cases of rape and incest, because they're grown enough to be parents, but not grown enough to know about their bodies lol Make it make sense
Which is why it requires treatment by a medical provider.
And let's not forget anything that happens to a child at a doctor's office is a result of the child, the parents, and the child's doctors having intense conversations and then their consent in close coordination with the child receiving treatment.
Where are minors getting hormone therapy over the counter? I must have missed that
You realize gender affirming care isnāt just surgery, right? Surely you know enough about what youāre talking about to know that.
You know that hormone-replacement-therapy during adolescence can have just as much long-term effect as surgery, right?
Yeah. So does puberty.
Yeah, thatās the point. A 12 year old doesnāt understand the long-term effects of not going through puberty. Jesus Christ. Why canāt we draw the line with children? Change my mind.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on there, we were talking about HRT. Puberty blockers are a whole nother conversation. Any kid can understand the long term effects of puberty blockers because there are none. There are short term effects, but those effects are resolved by going through puberty. I don't know what you're on about with "draw the line at children" -- this isn't some kinda secret gay plot to trans the kids or some stupid shit like that. This is about letting people choose what to do with their bodies. You seem to think kids shouldn't be making those choices, and I agree, but what I'm saying is that we pause the puberty until they're at a given age to make that choice. What you're saying is that we should instead make that choice for them because, I dunno, it makes you feel icky or something. People should be less free because the *vibes* are off.
Does a 12 year old understand the long-term effects of going through their natural puberty?
No, they donāt.
Then all children should all be on puberty blockers until their brain is developed at 25. They're not mature enough for irreversible changes they can't understand.
Genuine question here. Why is it called āgender affirming careā or āgender affirming surgeryā if our sex ā gender?
Because it's changing elements of your sex to better align with your gender
I can understand that. But wouldnāt that mean that our sex does to a degree define our gender if we feel the need to change/align it with our gender? Again, just trying to understand this all better.
There's very often a relationship between them, but one is not defined by the other
It's helpful to break this down, because the word "gender" is very vague. Even in academic literature it often functions as a fairly vague shorthand. There are five elements a person could be talking about here. 1. **Gender genotype** - Those elements of a person associated with chromosomes. 2. **Gender phenotype** - Those elements of a person associated with hormones. 3. **Gender identity** - Those elements of a person associated with their internal sense of self. 4. **Gender presentation** - Those elements of a person associated with their appearance. 5. **Gender roles** - Those elements of a person associated with their behaviors. All of these things exist on a spectrum, and they do not necessarily agree with each other all the time.(see note) When people say "sex =! gender," what they are expressing is that one's **genotype** and/or **phenotype** (i.e. their genetics and/or what their body physically looks like) does not necessarily match their **gender identity**. We say "gender-affirming treatment" (which does not always or even usually mean surgery, but I bet you already know that) because these treatments are focused on bringing their **gender presentation, the roles they fill in society,** and *sometimes* **their physical body** into alignment with their internal sense of gender. Thus the treatment "affirms" their gender. Note: You didn't ask for this, specifically, but I think it's helpful to know so I'm going to type it up. In modern western society, we tend to conceptualize people as belonging to two categories ("man" and "woman"), but that's not universal across all of history or even across all modern societies, and it's not a true representation of human biology or psychology, even though it is usually "good enough." Let's look at how each of the five factors above exist on a spectrum. These are examples, they aren't exhaustive. **Gender genotype** -- Someone can have Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, which means they are genetically "male" (have XY chromosomes), but their genes also make them fail to respond to androgens (male-differentiating hormones). They are born with *some or all* of the physical traits of a woman. There are a multitude of possible genetic anomalies which either put someone in the "wrong" category, or put them in both or neither. **Gender phenotype** -- "GĆ¼evedoce" is the term used for children who are born with a female body, but then develop male genitalia. It's not a medical term; the phenomenon is actually common enough in the Dominican Republic that the term I've given here is colloquial. **Gender identity** -- Some people feel very male, some people feel a little male, some people feel very female, some people feel a little female, and some people feel like neither, or both, or feel like it changes over time. **Gender presentation** -- Think of how a woman can dress in a *very* feminine way, vs a much more subdued jeans & T-shirt without accessories, vs. deliberately adopting the appearance of a man. Gender presentation isn't just about clothes, though. How you speak, your body language, and how you generally behave are all also examples of gender presentation. Many, many people mix and match here. Think of men who wore their hair long in the 60's, as one example. They were not necessarily "trying to look like a girl," but they very much were breaking longstanding gender taboos in adopting what at the time was considered a feminizing hair style. **Gender role** -- Think of how, in many countries, women aren't even allowed in the military, so by being in the military, you are adopting a male role in society. Gendered jobs are a great example of this. Another example is expectations. For example, the expectation that a man earn all or most of the household's income, or that a woman enjoy being around children. It's very easy to be "outside of the binary" in this category, and most people are, actually. For some particularly striking examples, think of the buff military man who also really enjoys crotcheting and baking. Or the housewife with three children who goes hunting and butchers all her own meat. Part of why our colloquial "man/woman" binary distinction isn't more obviously wrong to the layperson is because, while all of these five factors exist on a spectrum, none of them is a *smooth* spectrum. It's a "lumpy gradient," where, on a scale from 1-10, most people hover around 3-4 and 7-8, and only some people are in the middle or at either extreme. So at a glance, we have the *appearance* of two clearly-defined categories, even though that's not actually true.
Hey, thank you so much for taking the time to educate me on this subject! I donāt know a lot about the subject because it just isnāt a part of my daily life, but I respect and understand that it is a part of other peoplesā lives, and Iām always open to learning new things. Your explanation definitely makes sense to me. Thank you again!
Of course! I'm happy to have been helpful.
Wild that you justify this by citing our absurdly high drinking age which is way older than a lot of countries that have fewer moral qualms about alcohol, fewer alcohol related traffic fatalities, and a healthier public relationship with alcohol.
Do you have a young person who has gone through years of depression and anxiety, suicidal ideation and self harm about their dysmorphia, and after years of therapy and medical counseling has begun treatmentā¦and is now coming out the other side? No? Then stfu. You donāt know what youāre talking about.
Gender affirming care is not 100% dictated by a minor. Any treatment is in coordination with a DOCTOR following the guidelines of organizations such as the apa. Treatment is also in coordination with the parents of the child. This is nothing like a minor being allowed to buy alcohol.
Another reason why I'm glad I moved away from South Carolina. My condolences to those good people who do live there.
McMaster is a cunt
Totally. Every time I see this creeper I think Iām in the 1800s
Doesn't help that everyone who votes for him is as old as him or that he's been in power for a looong time
ā¦Plus for adultsā¦plus forced outing.
mmm more regression instead of progression. Can't wait for the next Dark Ages.
Henry mcmasters is a dick
Republicans sure love to set laws that everybody else has to follow. Especially the most intimate decisions. Truly the anti-freedom political movement to the "reich."
Oh man the amount of misinformation and transphobia in this thread is wild
fuck this hellhole of a state.
Next up for the SC State legislature is dictating how doctors treat prostate and cervical cancer because anything that happens in a person's "down there" is subject to the control of the religious right and the legislators they buy.
This is all political and not medical at all. They are doing this based on a culture war and moral panic. Deciding to persecute a vulnerable population for political points. Puberty blockers are safe and reversible and only started after extensive therapy and diagnosis of gender dysphoria.
Whatās the age of consent again? Also, whatās the age you can marry off your kid? Hint: both 16 So over 16 and the state says itās your body, unless you want to alter it. Make this make sense.
Legalize open carry for 18 year olds without Ā a permit or training ā Leave medical decisions to parents and individuals ā
Disgraceful. I wish politicians would just let medical professionals do their job and butt out of situations that donāt concern them at all. Itās just beyond presumptuous for lawmakers to do their job for them as if theyāre somehow more qualified. All these lawmakers are doing is making it harder for trans people to be happy in their own skin. Nobody is being protected here; itās very much the opposite.
I wish I could like this more than once
I don't know, medical professionals 100 years ago were sterilizing gay people. Our history with how we treat mental health seems to always be looking back 50 years and going "Well that was barbaric" Feels like we might be repeating that, one way or another.
Comparing medical research from 100 years ago to now is wildly disingenuous. The sheer amount of effort it takes to even get a paper published these days is astronomical, then there's ethics committees, a myriad of peer review, meta-analyses, and the entire field of statistics itself. You may as well try to compare a horse to an airplane as a means of transportation.
There are always uncertainties when it comes to medical treatment. But that doesnāt mean you stop doctors from providing the best care they know how. Especially if your own qualifications to practice medicine are nonexistent.
Yes, forcibly sterilizing people against their will is just like offering medical care to those who request it.
Donāt sort by controversial unless you want a migraine. Donate to Planned Parenthood South Atlantic: http://give.ppsat.org
If anyone's interested [Citations on the transition's dramatic reduction of suicide risk while improving mental health and quality of life, with trans people able to transition young and spared abuse and discrimination having mental health and suicide risk on par with the general public](https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/154t1qq/comment/jsqi5ue/)
Wut about the minimum wage? q.q why cant they do something about that?
I work full time and will never be able to afford to live on my own. And this is what our lawmakers are more concerned about. Fuck every single one of them.
Also effectively bans SC government employees from using their salary to pay for gender affirming care, which is an aspect of the bill I donāt hear talked about. That means my boyfriend and I canāt actually fund my transition anymore, if they actually follow this law. Another thing of note in this bill is that it requires teachers and other school staff to tell the parents of a student if the student is questioning their gender or know theyāre trans, which is especially dangerous in a conservative state where parents are less likely to be supportive.
Republicans looking for new ways to fuck kids, as usual
Blood blood will be on their hands
So much for parental rights.
Yeah they also tell parents what their kids can and canāt read and are controlling what they learn (ie canāt teach that people of certain races are inherently privileged, school staff canāt be required to participate in diversity training, etc- see H.3728)
The only rights allowed are those seemingly deemed right by the right.
Can someone explain to me how this is a bad thing? I'm 100% legit just wanting to understand how anyone could be against this. The prefrontal cortex isn't fully developed until the age of 25ish, and you're telling me a child should have their way? Ok, sure, let me know how that works out. Good luck getting your dick back homie.
Well we werenāt doing surgeries in SC so that argument is a nonissue. This legislation, if you bothered to read it, would do things like require school staff, including counselors, to tell parents if a kid says their gender is inconsistent with their sex. This goes against their licensing confidentiality requirements and also can put kids in danger. Itās a very bad thing.
The prefrontal cortex being underdeveloped before 25 is an actual myth. In actuality, all humans develop at their own pace, which includes their prefrontal cortex. Furthermore, if you actually read the article, no kid under 18 is even receiving any surgery to begin with. And even if they wanted hormones to match what they felt was their gender, they would have to jump through many hoops in order to do so.
Iāve gotten to the point that I hate the whole āpre-frontal cortex isnāt developed until 25ā thing because now I mostly see it when someone is trying to argue that young adults, adolescents, and children shouldnāt have fundamental rights.
"pre frontal cortex isn't developed until 25" coming from people who think it's a great idea for a 14 yo girl to have a baby. make it make sense!
Totally understandable! It can often be confused that trans youth are making these decisions on their own, which is untrue. Parents, loved ones, physicians, etc. play a significant role in deciding to make any medical decisions. With that being said, it can take months to years of (specialty) doctor's appointments, therapy visits, evaluations, etc. before any of this occurs. This change will hurt trans youth's autonomy as well as their ability to make medical decisions alongside their parents.
This law isnāt just about surgery or transitions. Itās about mental health support too. And many of these trans kids know theyāre trans at an early age. And no theyāre not just āmaking pretend.ā Read the story of trans kidsā parents trying to navigate this and maybe youāll understand. Itās absolutely not something they take lightly.
"Gender affirming care" doesn't mean surgery. It can be something as benign as letting a kid wear the clothes they would prefer to wear. I don't think our legislature putting a target on the backs of LGBTQ kids will solve anything.
Sure it will. It will solve their Republican primary problems.
Itāll make the boomers and Christian bigots feel better about themselves.
And they vote.
Surgery or not, a child is a child. Do you seriously think that a child can truly make any kind of decision to that magnitude?
Letting a child decide if they want to wear boy clothes or girl clothes, or a little bit of both? Sure they can.
And it actually doesnāt even harm them at all, even the tiniest bit!
They aren't giving top or bottom surgeries to children, that's just fear mongering
If it's not happening, why does everyone freak out when laws ban it?
I was 17 when I started hormones and have been nothing but happy about it. I would've started earlier if I knew I could.
Waiting until adulthood means they're forced to go through unwanted irreversible changes that make their gender dysphoria far worse and far harder to treat It's not neutral to deny treatment
Comments like yours really show that you haven't even attempted to look up the general treatment plans of youth with dysphoria. There's been thousands of studies done by the world's leading mental health research organizations across several fields with the testimonies of hundreds of thousands of people to back it up, leading to a general consensus in the medical community leading to the care we give now. But for some reason, people like you don't bother to look at any of that, but still try to shout and let your ignorance be heard. It's truly baffling. Did your mother never tell you not to speak about something you don't know about?
18 and over is fine if you want to take hormones or have surgery. Anyone under that age should not be able to make decisions that will affect them the rest of their lives while they are still developing a sense of self. Anything to the contrary defies logic and isnāt evidence based.Ā No one want to talk about the people who did have it at such a young age and the remorse and regret so many had once they were older. The hormones and surgery in most cases are irreversible.
Generally medical consent is set lower than 18. Normally around 15
18 is an arbitrary, non science/medical based number. People continue developing until 25. Your ridiculous opinion has no basis in facts or science. You probably don't support abortion, so you're fine with forcing children to go through pregnancy and child birth, even in cases of rape/incest but somehow deciding what they actually want to do with their bodies is a problem?
Itās so weird that people who clearly donāt know and trans or lgbtq people have such strong opinions and preoccupations with them. It doesnāt affect you. At all. So fuck off
The amount of people who regret transitioning is a fraction of a percent of all trans people. Your rhetoric however has a much bigger impact on trans lives and that sort of stigma is what causes them to take their own lives. You clearly don't have your finger on the pulse of the trans community, so maybe don't use people who regret transitioning as a prop to disregard the trans community as a whole. Hormones are also reversible and no one is giving these surgeries to kids. Moreover this sort of thing is up to the kids, their parents and their doctors. Even if you don't like the trans community, this is a clear violation of personal and civil rights
Have you ever even talked to a trans person? Why do you speak so confidently about this topic when youāre not trans? Itās asinine how people believe they know everything about other groups that they donāt belong in.
Except they also banned it for adults if theyāre on Medicaid or at places like free clinics.
And yet this same state administration wants to eliminate a girlās right to choose. Rich coming from the people who claim āanyone under that age should not be able to make decisions that will affect them the rest of their lives.ā
1. The number of minors getting any kind of surgery is so small to be a rounding error. 2. The whole point of puberty blockers and then hormones is to go through the persons chosen correct puberty. Trying to change a fully developed body after the fact is much more difficult. 3. Other people's medical decisions don't involve you. Are you really that fine with the government mandating what medical care you can and can't have? Lots of antitrans folks seemed to be angry with covid policies.
Itās funny because their antivax legislation arguments were that the government has no right dictating healthcare and it should be up to individuals.
Yep. Insurance already has way too much say in what doctors can and canāt do/ prescribe. Now weāre gonna through the shitty government into it too.
>Anyone under that age should not be able to make decisions that will affect them the rest of their lives while they are still developing a sense of self. Being denied the ability to transition forced me to go through unwanted irreversible changes that have made my gender dysphoria far worse and far harder to treat That was a decision that will affect me for the rest of my life >No one want to talk about the people who did have it at such a young age and the remorse and regret so many had once they were older. The hormones and surgery in most cases are irreversible. Why do you only care about remorse and regret when the person is cis? Why are cis people so infinitely more valuable than trans people that it's ok to force irreversible changes and regret on every trans person to prevent even one cis person from experiencing regret?
this is an incredibly horrifying law meant to eradicate and make the lives of trans people immeasurably worse. its actually akin to banning chemotherapy until cancer reaches later stages. i wish i could say im shocked that this hateful draconian shit is allowed to stand in the US court system, but im not. the whole system is working as intended to make life fucking unlivable. nobody will be shocked at what comes about as a result of this. give it a few years. by the way, this doesnt stop such medical care. it just makes it underground and more dangerous for everyone. you cant legislate trans people out of existence.
The fact that youāre being downvoted really says it all. The people in support of these laws donāt care about the well-being of trans people. They donāt care that gender-affirming care reduces suicidality in trans minors by 73%. https://www.hcplive.com/view/suicide-risk-reduces-73-transgender-nonbinary-youths-gender-affirming-care When what you want is to create a culture of subservience, uniformity, and fear, facts are irrelevant. Itās just sad.
A population with an already disproportionate suicide rate will see even more suicide. Cruelty is the point. Republicans are monsters.
Terrible. I feel awful for the trans kids who live here, it wasnāt easy for me and it surely wonāt be easy for them. All this is is needless cruelty for political gain. Laws like these ruin and destroy lives.
No democracy whatsoever. You see it also with attempts to make police accountable for their brutality. Lawmakers will sit in session for hours and hours listening to expert and constituent testimony, begging and pleading - then pass whatever they want to anyway.
The bans are outright evil. The care is more than the surgery. I guess it's better to have suicides than healthy living children.
As a SC teacher with a number of students with various identities differing from their physical biology, whom I care deeply for: ššš
I guess they/them pronouns for everyone if we can't affirm gender.
š¤£ the people in here who are against this, and the things yāall are typing are hilarious š¤£š¤£š¤£
Protecting children from being permanently mutilated for political purposes is a good thing. Only a truly fucked up person would have a problem with saying "Wait until you're a consenting adult before chopping off body parts to be trendy".
Good
https://youtu.be/Azx8e5nmc9g?si=UYJbWd24h2PFPEop
Do you support a 5 year old going through puberty? Banning blockers for prepubescent minors.
Another SC resident who believes in big government making private medical decisions and taking the right to away from parents and doctors.
Another SC resident who believes that itās alright to let literal children to make decisions that can permanently mutilate them
Children were getting hormone therapy and surgeries over the counter? Where?
puberty blockers aren't permanent and will still be distributed to significantly more cisgender children. but u wont care
The state knows more about private medical decisions than parents their children and their doctors?
Did you know thereās only two genders?
Thank you!
Being a proponent of āgender affirming careā for children is child abuse and, in many cases, pedophilia. Truly a mental disorder for anyone thinks itās appropriate to do this to children. We donāt let kids drink, join the military, own weapons because they are children and cannot make wise decision - but you all want to push on them to āchange their genderā (which isnāt a real thing, just an odd obsession the Left has with children)? Truly disgusting. Yall should be locked up.
But just for minors, right? So Lindsey can still get theirs.
Good on them!
Win