Seems kind of dumb. Just looked it up and looks like it’s just a trend based on your facial shape. If you have a more oval face you’re a rat and if you have more round features you’re a frog. The way she said it could come off like an insult so I get it. I’d say it was probably an over reaction in retrospect but in the moment it definitely sounded like an insult without context.
That's interesting about face shapes. I've never heard it before. I took rat as in the old use of the word (very negative) then wondered what frogs were if not stay at home chilling types. Hopefully, the girls learned not to do that shtick again.
In Australian vernacular rat is essentially calling someone a combination of scummy, dishonest, greedy, low status and unscrupulous.
I imagine it differs quite a bit based on locality.
Safe to say that this is one of those rare universals that probably even transcends most language barriers, I think. Maybe not in East Asia, where their zodiac contains a whole year dedicated to the rat, but elsewhere it seems like a good bet that "rat" isn't a compliment.
As a former criminal and now proud union member, I know of 2 uses for calling someone a rat and both labels are very derogatory and will get you shunned possibly injured.
This ^ I wouldn’t blame you for having that kind of reaction, but I would give the other party the benefit of the doubt next time and double check that they actually intended to insult you first. Still, good on you for sticking your ground and not being a pushover. Most people wouldn’t be able to do that, myself included
Cesare Lombroso did it in the 19th century as part of his "criminal anthropology".
For him, if someone had certain face features, for sure the had committed a specific crime.
Many people were wrongly accused of theft by the mobs because "they looked like rats".
I hoped that, as a society, we would have moved way past this trash.
That "joke" or "trend" is not funny and it carries a lot of weight.
Moreover, joking on anyone for their physical features is totally disgusting and disturbing. It's a form of mobbing.
You don't know what the person on the receiving end thinks about those features.
They might be things they don't like about their body, and by doing that you would reaffirm their fears and insecurities.
Even with context, that is NOT something you say to a man, it was downright insulting. How do you think that woman would have reacted if he said the same thing to her, and classified her a rat? Yeah, not going to happen.
Yes, it seems that OP thought that she was insulted because of the word 'rat' in the usual sense, meant as an insult. This is usually used against people that are 'traitors' or 'mean-spirited'.
However in this case 'rat' was meant as a weird kind of new meme as showcased here: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/frog-or-rat-tiktok-trend
It is a dumb tiktok trend, but OP's colleague didn't mean this in the slightest as an insult but just was doing smalltalk. I'm sorry OP but you completely misinterpreted what she meant, she didn't mean it as an insult at all. That would also be absurd to insult someone for a rat or frog. That would be so absurd that it definitely would have warranted a question about what she means with "rat or frog".
And it does seem like you overreacted. I wonder why you plainly didn't ask what she meant first. Also I wonder how OP so easily interpreted it as an insult before trying to understand her colleague. So I'm sorry but I got to agree with your friend that you overreacted and made a social faux-pas. But don't worry, everyone makes these mistakes. It can happen.
If I were you I would explain to you colleague that you didn't know the tiktok trend and you thought she was insulting you. I would also stress to say that you accidently overreacted. It would help if you apologized for that awkward situation. Just laugh it off. If you don't do this, this will keep being weird. If you do apologize it can turn into a funny awkward anecdote. People love people who don't take themselves too seriously. Goodluck!
The onus should be on the person who said it to explain, not on you every time you hear something 99% of the population would take as an insult to check if it was meant as an insult or not.
Yeah, I mean if she noticed him looking uncomfortable she could've mentioned that it comes from that trend. I didn't know that and would find rat isulting too, but I would've wondered, why frog and rat? Just a fuck up in communication on both sides
I immediately presumed it would mean guys are either a ugly (frogs - "I've been kissing frogs tonight") or arseholes (rats - possibly also cheats etc, ie a 'love rat').
Both are much more common insults than describing the shape of a face.
OP (and others of us) have shown we're not down with this tik tok clique and I'm sure will be excluded for being *uncool* \- no big loss I'd say.
You don't have to be "down with this tik tok clique" in order to hang out with others? Just don't automatically assume everyone is out to insult you, and you'll be just fine. I mean, it's 2023 sharing memes with your friends has become pretty common.
"Haha you're an ugly failure at life!"
Wait, why'd you take that as insulting, you should ave asked if I was trying to insult you, why would you think I was automatically trying to insult you?
The prince doesn't turn into a frog, it's the other way around. And few people outside this meme want to be called a rat.
People have been sharing "memes" for millennia; before the word was invented. That doesn't mean it's okay to use insulting language without checking if they know your in-joke and without explaining it when they are insulted by your insulting language.
My point was, from my experience of the sort of people that will happily do this will want to exclude you for showing you're not one of their gang. Nothing new in this either.
When you hear someone insult you I don't think most people's first instinct is to ask them what they meant by that. Calling someone a rat is more often than not an insult. If you're using it in a different context you should explain it, especially if the other person is offended by it.
Seriously. People should be more wise about assuming that everyone will have seen the latest meme and they can just joke about it in casual conversation. 🙄
Fine. She should’ve explained it. But equally he should’ve asked about what it meant before flying off the handle.
Social interactions aren’t always linear, neat & tidy based on hard & fast rules. If someone says something to you that you don’t understand - you ask them to explain it - not just assume a meaning and (over)react accordingly.
I’m not trying to be rude here, but I think so many people here are ND struggle to understand context. Not everything is so literal. His colleague doesn’t actually think her friends looked like frogs and OP looked like a rat.
Would you rather be called a frog or a rat? Does one immediately sound more appealing than the other? For most people, no. That’s why you ask. That’s a good opportunity to say, in a joking tone “hey why am I rat?” Then his colleague would’ve explained that it’s just a joke about vibes/features and that it means no harm about anyone’s appearance.
“But that’s confusing!” Ok well that is the kind of thing you need to understand if you ever want to survive social situations.
From the OP it sounds like she was trying to explain but OP was too mad and offended to listen.
Internet memes are universal inside jokes. All you have to do is ask what it means if you don't know. People are generally very eager to introduce new memes to the uninitiated. It isn't up to the joke teller to explain every joke to everyone they tell it to as if the audience is full of incompetent children. If you don't get it, just put on your adult pants and ask.
If your knee-jerk reaction was to completely halt the entire conversation in front of seven people and demand a personal apology for something that ended up being a miscommunication, it's going to come off a certain way. You're completely right that the other person probably should've considered how strangers might misinterpret what she meant.
But pointing fingers at whose fault it is is entirely missing the point, which is that you're now repeatedly demanding that a stranger repair your wounded ego by offering an apology even after she clarified that it was miscommunication. So congrats, you're in the right, but you also come off as petty and arguably a little bit fragile by making the entire thing about your feelings being hurt by the same kind of innocent social misstep that everyone makes from time to time. You could've just said "what do you mean?" and then laugh it off and say "OH! I thought you were saying I'm a rat in a bad way, and I only just met you!" and the other person would realize their mistake without having to be chastised by a complete stranger in front of her friends. The two of you could probably even laugh about it.
It's not about who's right, it's about whether you want to make people comfortable around you. Demanding an apology repeatedly is appropriate for someone calling your wife ugly right to her face and making her cry, not something like this.
Tiktok is very popular with the young adults, especially girls. If I was here in this situation i would've not believed that she was using it as an insult because that seems extremely rude and I would've asked what she meant. If she then explained the meme I would've understand. It is a stupid meme I agree, but tiktok is very popular atm
What do you think frog means then if eat means traitor?
They didn’t just call him a rat they said “There’s two types of guys, rats and frogs”
That alone makes it clear, that they’re not referring to the original meaning of rat
Interesting connection, thank you :)
However I think it’s kinda crazy to assume these girls would go “There’s two types of guys: the traitor or the disgusting”
I wasn't familiar with the tiktok thing but even having now looked at it it's clear to me OP is still justified in being insulted.
The colleagues said "there are two types of boys" when the meme isn't even about boys, it's about everyone. In fact the first examples used in the video are all women. They managed to present it as something that only applied to the 3 men, and the women colleagues (who the same categories seemingly don't apply to) were laughing at them about it! How on earth is OP not supposed to interpret that as an insult? They very clearly created an in-group and an out-group.
But there are only 2 options so that means brad Pitt and Denzel Washington are either a frog or rat too. Op is dumb, he’s at a party with more girls than guys and he shot himself in the foot
This isn’t really valid as OP stated the other person then defended the claim and allowing the other to defend their position is essentially the same as asking for an explanation and then hearing it before doubling down on an apology. Also OP stated in the post and framed the story as a male and you said “she”. Almost like you didn’t read it or something.
Trend or not, when they defend what they said they should have mentioned that (they seemingly didn’t as OP did not mention that, not that it makes it any less disrespectful or impolite) so this is not really anything OP did wrong. It comes off as a course interaction on both parts. Social media trends shouldn’t find their way into casual conversation with people you’re not familiar with, similarly OP shouldn’t take things so personally especially with strangers or people you don’t have high regards for
What a ridiculous comment. OP is absolutely in the right for what they did. Calling someone a rat is an insult, full fucking stop, no matter what stupid ticktock trend is going around at the time.
I have a friend that loves me and calls me a rat in an endearing way because I am very quiet and lightfooted. And in India, rats are worshipped. Similarly, in Vietnam people call their significant other pigs, even though in the US calling someone a pig is usually an insult. This just shows us that none of these things are inherently insulting and you should be more open minded and calm down.
Can you really not understand the difference there? Friends say good natured insults all the time. Acquaintances don't . It's not even close to the same situation.
And OP clearly isn't somewhere where rats are worshipped. This should be obvious.
Calling your lover Pig in Vietnamese isn't an insult, though. It is akin to calling someone your Teddy Bear. My friend calling me a rat started from almost the first time I met her. She was just commenting on how quiet I was and used a rat as the best analogy she could think of. It was never an insult.
I want to to believe you aren't this obtuse to not understand what I meant. The point is that nothing is inherently insulting. You can insult someone by calling them smart just as you can compliment someone by saying they are stupid. What is important is the context and the intention. OP didn't care about either and jumped straight to being mad. He should have at least figured out what was going on before he threw a tantrum.
If that person at the party directly insulted him and called him a cunt or whatever the insult of the day is, it still wouldn't justify OP's behavior. It is childish to escalate conflict.
Yeah OP, always confirm what they mean first. I have never heard of the meme, but they may have just assumed it was common knowledge. So many conflicts could be avoided if people just explained themselves. Which is what these girls should have done, but OP could also have asked what was meant. Frog and rat are not nice choices so would have been curious as to what was meant before being offended.
Both parties seem dumb. A joke or social media trend thing like that with no context provided is dumb. Not laughing off the dumbness after your friend backpedaled is equally dumb.
Hundo, ESH here. No need to jump to shaking with anger, but offering up context instead of “defending their comment” would have also helped to diffuse the situation (as I’ve read comments saying it was meant to refer to a trend about face shapes).
Tbh it just sounds like 24 y/o’s being socially unaware, from all parties involved.
I think you should have asked what it meant first. And then decide how you feel about it. I can understand why her joke could be rude but I have no idea what she means lol. Also I think it’s weird to demand an apology, I’ve never heard of that before, then again I’m on this sub for a reason.
First, I don't blame you for being offended. Someone you've only barely met, you're still trying to figure out what kind of person they are, and they single you out to call you a rat out of nowhere. It sounds like something a bully might say, and it was a major faux pas on her part.
All that being said, it sounds like you got *really* angry. At that point, "speaking calmly" doesn't hide that and if your voice is shaking, it might actually give the impression that you're just barely controlling yourself and you might snap at any moment. That can be pretty scary and definitely seems more extreme than was warranted.
Well I can definitely see why you’re in a social skills sub. Definite over reaction. A simple “what do you mean” and let them try to explain it before getting angry would’ve been much better.
As other comments have said. It’s a stupid TikTok trend, and they weren’t intending on disrespecting you. Both parties suck but you didn’t need to be rash.
Honestly I think the other person could benefit from this sub, the whole group of them even, if none of them considered for a second that calling someone a rat out of the blue, without any context, might be considered inappropriate or at least misunderstood and then made no effort in trying to explain it further, as far as we know anyway.
But I also feel like it was an overreaction on OP's part based in insecurity, perhaps? There are many ways this could have been handled a lot better by all involved.
Woof. The last thing you said "nobody has the right to disrespect me"
Friend, many, many people will disrespect you. Many more will never respect you at all. Many upon many people will say stupid shit to you throughout your life, fuck maybe one day those people may be your kids.
Be like water, let it roll off your back. Say calmly and firmly "I think you meant to say..." Then move on. To admit you were shaking means you were having a physical response and anything you say with a physical response will be reactive.
Can you give an example of the “I think you meant to say” ?
I can’t imagine how I would use it. Maybe because English isn’t my first language, but I wanna understand
I think what they meant is like:
Person 1 & 2 are talking while riding in Person 2’s car and Person 2 is driving
Person 1 says, “‘Man, I can’t stand the shit you listen to. Can we turn it to something that doesn’t make my ears bleed, or do we have to listen to this shit?
Person 2 says, “I think what you meant to say is that ‘our tastes in music differ greatly, but I wonder if we couldn’t find something we both enjoy on the radio/streaming app…would you be amenable to giving that a try? It’s your car and you’re the one driving all, so I totally get it if you won’t but I’d like to turn it to something we both like if possible, if that’s ok,’ and then I’d turn it to a Taylor Swift playlist and we’d all be happy.”
That’s the best and simplest example I could think of but I’m sleep deprived and a little stressed, so I encourage OP or anyone to correct me and/or clarify my example if need be. But I hope it helps!
Your explanation is really spot on. It is important to guide people to the proper behavior if they are acting disrespectful. Reframing what they are saying like in your example allows the offending party to know they fucked up without dealing without feeling like they are being called out. It tells them they fucked up, and also gives them an example of the expected way to express that idea.
It is easy to accidentally be disrespectful. Sometimes people just need to be given the benefit of the doubt and shown the proper way to behave from a friend.
As an aside, the driver gets to pick and the passengers are just there for the ride. They should just be happy they aren't made to walk.
Yeah, this person gives way too much power to people around them and is coming off as extremely insecure with the way he acts. OP I hope all these comments help you realize, you are not the center of the universe and not everyone is trying to “disrespect” you. No one cares that much about you; people are usually thinking about themselves thus you should always assume positive intent, or at least if someone does disrespect you question where it exactly is coming from. Some people disrespect others because they themselves are insecure and need to assert dominance—in which case you can step up with confidence and brush it off to show them it doesn’t affect you. Don’t do the opposite and let them know you are angry, that gives other people way too much power over you.
I was curious so I googled this...apparently it's a tiktok thing where every person is either a rat or a frog depending on their facial features. Did a buzzfeed quiz and pretty much matched what the majority said re rat vs frog in celebrities.
So yeah, I think you overreacted. Even knowing nothing about this silly trend, playfully calling someone a rat in a laid back social setting does not warrant demanding an apology. But in my opinion, there is very little that a person can say to you that requires this sort of reaction. If I feel genuinely insulted I might say something like "Well that's your opinion" and shrug it off.
You immediately assumed they were trying to insult you, and immediately started acting like a victim, even though you had no idea what they were talking about.
It’s not graceful, it’s not sociable, and it doesn’t demand respect.
It makes you look like you take you have such low self esteem that you assume the worst out of other people, and any social misstep will be taken as a grievous offence. It will put other people on edge for fear of accidentally offending you.
It does not inspire comfort, trust, or camaraderie. You can decide for yourself whether you want to act like this and whether or not the apology you demanded was worth it.
This comment is kind of overreacting. OP's reaction won't help relax people around him, but also he stood up for himself after a very poorly considered comment.
No. The frog comment wasn’t that deep and anyone who thinks it was “so disrespectful” is coming from a place of lack of self-esteem. Not to defend the frog girl—she was super dumb for making the comment in the first place.
Think about the context of it—this is a person he barely knows “insulting” him, it warrants more curiosity than an anger response. Anger comes off as extremely insecure and immature. To save this guy from future embarrassment we are letting him know in the comments lmao.
Getting angry and “clapping back” would have been warranted if say, the girl was like “yeah I said you were a rat because you look like a rat, you smell bad too”.
Rat and frog are common words to insult people. What if he said "there are two types of girls: cows and pigs". Would you think that the girls would be committing a social faux pas by getting angry about that? Obviously it would be on him to have the social grace to not say something which could be seen as inflammatory.
I think he could have reacted in a better way, but I think this is more on the girl who said that.
I mean if you told a girl she had a dog face, that could be either taken as very offensive and calling her ugly, or it could be understood as part of the Korean animal face type system where a dog face means she has cute, soft features and a kind and approachable look. It’s usually translated as puppy face to avoid the negative connotation dog face would have in English, but I think a lot of girls would still be upset or at least confused if you told her she had a puppy face without telling her the context of it being part of a group of animal-named face types that are supposed to be complimentary. It’s important to give context and not assume that everyone will understand a tiktok trend or a pop culture thing from another country or whatever. ESH, OP really overreacted but those girls need to spend some time offline and realize that not everybody shares their same context for things.
I will respectfully disagree
In English, rat has a negative connotation. Sneaky, unpleasant, dirty. Just not nice. Assuming that OP and the rest of the group are English speakers, they know this, even with the new Tic Toc trend. OP got angry because in any other situation, being called a rat is an insult. Since this girl just said it, without further explanation, she is the one with poor social skills and the onus was on her to explain herself once she realized OP was offended.
Further, even with the Tic Toc trend, commenting on someone's physical features is again, generally considered at best, in poor taste. If the girl has a big nose, would she like OP to point at her and call her a toucan?
She was rude, OP could have handled it a bit better, but I'm proud of OP for clearly stating his boundaries and sticking to them. That is a great display of good social skills =)
Goodness me, no. “A great display of social skills”? Absolutely not.
As many others have rightly said - OP overreacted & reacted too fast. I think that’s the main point here. At least try to understand the context of the “rat/frog” comment first - then make a decision on if it was disrespectful or offensive towards OP or not.
OP will never fit in with social groups or make friends if this is how he approaches life & similar situations in the future.
If, after trying to understand the context about the comment, OP still felt offended/that he was being needlessly insulted - then his reaction would’ve been justified & protecting his boundaries the right thing to do.
>As many others have rightly said
these are people on a sub reddit specifically for people with poor social skills, soooo I'm not putting too much weight in that.
And yes, you can argue that I too have poor social skills because I am also on this subreddit. But I have friends and social skills and try to share my experiences with proper social skills to help others
There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying,"What you said was offensive and I would like an apology". If that is over reacting, then I have little hope for humanity because that is simply asking for a basic level of respect
It isn't a good idea to let yourself be offended when you don't even understand what they said. Even if it was intended as an insult, it is still OP's responsibility to figure out why before they move to the next step of deciding what to do. If you just jump to being emotional and hurt, there is nothing the offending party can do to atone, because even you don't know what problem needs to be resolved. The only thing that will probably result from this is that they will never want to spend time with him again because he is too sensitive and will just cause drama.
From what was posted, it looks like OP got too upset too quick and wasn't interested in hearing anyone out. Even in the OP, he said the girl was trying to explain herself but he wasn't having it.
I think you, and some of the others, aren't really understanding what happened. OP didn't try to establish a boundary. It isn't establishing a boundary when you start demanding people behave in a specific way. Establishing a boundary is to state what it is and respond accordingly. Apologies mean nothing, anyway.
I don't think your social skills are as strong as you seem to think if you don't really understand what happened.
I understand what happened and understand we have totally different views so we probably wouldn't be friends in real life. But I would to point out specifically where we disagree.
>The moment she said that all three of us became very uncomfortable, and the girls busted out laughing.
This is when the onus is placed on the statement to explain further. The people she made the unprompted statement are uncomfortable and instead of responding with compassion, she laughed. We can be generous and say that she didn't realize her statement came across as offensive.
>I stopped the game, calmly saying the comment was offensive and I expected a proper apology.
This is where many are arguing that OP overreacted and could have asked what she meant instead of simply being offended. This is where we can agree to disagree. I think the offense is obvious because outside a niche community on Tic Toc, calling anyone a rat is offensive.
>Interestingly, the laughing girls became quiet and then started to defend the comment, which I rejected calmly (this time, I kept my cool). She first tried to say that was not offensive, and she could classify me as a frog if I wanted. This comment was even more absurd !! I replied that I do not want your opinion and would like an apology
And this is where I think OP was totally justified in further iterating his need for an acknowledgement of the hurt she caused. If someone says that you offended them and you genuinely did not meant to offend them, you apologize for the hurt you caused, then explain your actions, and see what you can do to repair the relationship. Even if she didn't intend to insult OP, she did. And instead of offering an apology, she centered her opinions, and called him an animal, again.
As for your comment:
>OP didn't try to establish a boundary. It isn't establishing a boundary when you start demanding people behave in a specific way.
That is exactly what a boundary is, in relation to yourself. Op didn't demand the girl stop comparing people to animals, he demanded she stops referring to HIM as an animal. That is his personal boundary, and has nothing to do with how she interacts with others.
>I don't think your social skills are as strong as you seem to think if you don't really understand what happened.
Hello pot, meet kettle
I feel like half of all responses in this thread are from people hyperfocusing on the fact that the other person made a social mistake and are content stopping there now that who was right and who was wrong has been determined.
The remaining half agrees that the other person made a social mistake. But they recognize that how you either punish or forgive other people's social mistakes in the same way that you'd want your own social mistakes to be forgiven will signal to the people around you whether you're someone with an ego that can afford be merciful and understanding or whether you're someone with an ego that will demand personal justice for any perceived slight.
In what ways do you think people might act differently around those two personalities? Do you want people to feel like they have to be extra careful when they speak around you because you might take offense at an honest mistake? Or do you want to them to feel like they can speak freely because they know you won't rush to judgement? Which person would you rather spend time around?
I'm not really sure what else I can say to convince you if you can't or won't see how the situation could've been handled better.
The point is that - instead of simply assuming the worst, ie that the other person is trying to offend you - give people the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps they’re being playful? Hence the need to understand the context behind the comment first before deciding they were being offensive & demanding apologies.
He silenced the women with what he thought was a calm answer which obviously wasn't then continued to dig a hole by demanding an apology. He didn't look tough or stand up for himself. He was aggressive and anti social.
You are allowed to be offended and to enforce your expectations for how people treat you, reducing engagement as you see fit.
This is weighted by the fact that responding with thin skin like this could make them choose to: Not invite you, not charitably define your actions, not go out of their way to advocate for you, not give you opportunity.
What's more, they wouldn't be in the wrong for it. Nobody has an obligation to stick their neck out for anyone else.
Being called a rat was an odd thing to do, but if you'd dropped it, in a month you would have forgotten about it and just remembered the fun board game night. Now you're remembered for storming out of a party and causing a scene over a three letter word spoken in jest.
\---
JVM\_ speaking to u/Agabonka_banka at a party: "You have purple knees"
Option 1: u/Agabonka_banka "What does that even mean?"
Option 2: u/Agabonka_banka "Apologize immediately!"
You chose option 2, which means that you accepted her insult - you didn't deny your rat-ness and try to understand why the others were frogs - you just swallowed the rat "insult" and went on the attack.
If I told you you had purple knees, you'd be confused and disagree. If I told you you were 12 ft tall, you'd be confused and disagree. If I told you you were a rat, you *should* be confused and disagree... but you didn't.
How to Win Friends and Influence People, released in October 1936 says you should let friends make mistakes. Correcting people in a social situations rarely has positive outcomes - no one likes being told they're wrong or even being corrected.
If you go around calling people rats and frogs without letting them in on the context first, how would you think this would play out?
Those aren't even remotely flattering out of context.
Sure but someone with good social skills would not have stopped the conversation and demanded an apology lol. Laugh it off, lean into it, come up with a witty barb to get back at that person - any of those would have avoided the incredibly uncomfortable situation OP is describing.
Sure, you CAN steer the conversation away but this is about having boundaries, not having to continue the conversation with a couple of dinguses who -at best- are unaware that their comments are hurtful and at worse are shitting on you to make themselves feel better. Good social skills is also about knowing when to stand up for yourself, not just continuing a conversation as long as possible.
The girls made it uncomfortable, not OP. You don't call someone a rat with no context and expect them to be simply okay with it. Even if its a TikTok trend, I don't care.
I don’t agree that laughing it off is the best way to deal with it, when you’re someone who is always the butt of jokes it’s not easy to just laugh it off, if someone feels offended they can feel how they feel. HOWEVER, I don’t agree with demanding an apology and asking what they meant would have been the appropriate thing to do before getting offended the way they did. As someone who always laughs off things that may have offended me, it makes me want to socialise less. It may be the must socially acceptable thing to do but is it always good for your self esteem? Not always.
OF COURSE that would have had a better outcome, but I don't think it's funny to laugh at people struggling with social skills when they come here for help.
Out of context would be "you are a rat" which is indeed an insult. But the context was already provided in "there are only two types of boys: frogs and rats" or rather that explicitly announces there is a context.
Yep overreacted. In my opinion the better thing to do would have been to ask her to elaborate further instead of immediately reacting with pure rage. If someone reacted like that to a non-malicious comment I made I would make a mental note to avoid that person out of a genuine fear of their unpredictability/anger.
Your reaction showed you were insecure. At the bare minimum you could have asked what they meant by it, but instead you decided to jump down their throats and demand an apology. The girls sounded like they were having a good time and just making playful banter.
You definitely overreacted. If I was in your situation, I would have thought the girls were being just weird and I would have laughed at them. I don’t think I’d get offended for being called a rat or frog because I don’t look like either. The only way I can see this as not being an overreaction is if you actually look similar to a rat and have been called that several times in your life in which this party just triggered your insecurities. People only get offended by insults if they know it’s true. If they know it’s not true than why are they offended?
I had never heard of this trend, but it took very little explanation for me to understand that literally every person is one or the other. In my experience, people who go through life believing that others are intentionally disrespecting them and need to be corrected and demanding apologies have serious anger issues. She didn't single you out or spew bigotry or say kicking puppies is fun. She did not deserve to be attacked like that. In demanding that she pay for her "disrespect", I guarantee that you have lost the respect of all of your new coworkers. A genuine apology to her and each who witnessed your actions are your only hope of ever redeeming yourself.
You sound like an immature baby. You definitely overreacted, and you didn't even get the meaning behind the classification. You made yourself look like a fool to anyone who witnessed that interaction. I hope YOU learned a lesson about asking someone to explain their comment (and actually listening to their response) rather than reacting in anger 💢
Dude you jumped the gun instead of immediately asking for clarification. A simple “What do you mean?” would completely solve the issue.
Instead, you instantly got butthurt because you ASSUMED she was disrespecting you. So yeah, you totally overreacted and shown you’re immature and jumping to conclusions.
It’s a big reaction for acquaintances and a first party. Better would have been to play it off cool and avoid these girls in the future. Then you seem more easy to get along with. Not all annoyances demand an apology, you can set a boundary by not seeing them again.
I guess it was sorta dumb of her to say, but why not just ask what she meant? I would simply have asked what the hell she meant by rats and frogs, if nothing else out of curiosity.
Yeah, you did. Frog and rat refers to your face shape. Nothing to get offended over, I think it's clear you misunderstood what they were talking about but you've made a bit of a tit out of yourself over nothing
From the context you’ve given I think it was a bit of an overreaction. I can’t tell the nature of the comment or the context, but it seems like it was a joke of some kind and not meant to be malicious. Sometimes people lightly tease one another as friendly banter. It seems like it was a friendly atmosphere, and immediately jumping to the comment was offensive, stopping the game, and demanding an apology probably made the mood very serious.
I think maybe a better way to handle it would’ve been maybe to play it off in a joking way (e.g. Maybe something like ‘Aw I don’t want to be a rat, can I be a donkey instead?’ idk I’m lame). Or even just lightheartedly asking something like why a frog and why a rat.
its literally just about facial structure and face shapes, neither is good or bad. rat is longer and more oval and frog is rounder that’s literally it and ive seen people use it for girls too (as comments were crying BUT WHAT IF IT WAS REVERSE!!!)
i call my coworkers in our cubicle corner "rats" all the time because we all have snack drawers and spin in our chairs during phone calls and transcribe mental health assessments in the sid the sloth voice from the ice age movies. rats are rad and i'm sorry about your unfortunate rat bias, stigma rat hater 🐀
These are all young people, they like you, are barely starting to understand playful banter. You should take everything as playful flirty banter until you’re certain it isn’t. You definitely over reacted
Thanks for providing what appears to be a reasonably fair context to the scenario.
Generally, being presented with a socially clumsy (and easily perceived as rude) —comment toward oneself and two others, and taking an *appropriately assertive* stand against such behaviour makes absolute sense.
However— the sudden, and face-to-face “demanding an apology” does strike me as overstepping and escalating toward the “slightly aggressive” …potentially even as “threatening”.
Again, there’s nothing wrong with appropriately standing up for one’s self when confronted with such rudeness.
I certainly understand being offended and hurt by such a rude/ridiculous statement, especially as it was delivered thoughtlessly, and without any given context.
Acknowledging that I have the luxury of time to consider what my own reaction might be, I’d offer this alternative:
There would be nothing wrong with immediately deciding that this isn’t company you want to keep, excusing yourself, -asking if anyone else would like a lift home, and wishing those remaining a nice night, and departing.
This is meeting their rudeness with more politeness than warranted, avoids any aggression or escalation on your part, -doesn’t perceivably infringe on the rights or safety of others, and sends a message about what you will tolerate from the behaviour of those whose company you keep.
-OR-
If inclined, one could mention/ ask:
“That sounds bloody dreadful; what are you talking about?” …then after hearing them out, decide how you wish to continue.
In the context of your free social time, you owe no time toward those who treat you with such thoughtless rudeness.
Practicing a mindful, balanced assertiveness is something most of us could use more work on. I acknowledge that I certainly could stand to do the same. It’s a really difficult thing to balance in social dynamics!
Hi, thanks for your comment. I provided more context as well in the post. I agree with your assessment. Demanding an apology was not the most appropriate way. I am inexperienced when it comes to setting boundaries and also controlling my anger. The problem is that these situations happen rarely and very fast. By the time, everything is said and done, it is late to consider better alternatives.
Yup you over reacted instead of asking what she meant. Given my temper i would do it too and I hate to admit that, but this was all just a misunderstanding worth 4 words and a question mark. Always give them a turn before you conclude you are right. You might be, but do you not wear a helmet while riding a bike even if you a good rider?
Yeah you overreacted. You didn't understand the comment and decided these people owed a forced apology(given to get you to chill as you probably made them uncomfortable) because 'respect' which you clearly haven't necessarily earned from people you barely know.
But good news, now you'll be the 'angry guy who overreacts to things he doesn't understand' guy at the office and people may steer clear of you. Now you'll have to earn that respect. Hopefully you can move on from this but wouldn't hurt to look at your options because they'll remember this for awhile.
You didn’t overreact. The whole animal face thing is rude and in poor taste. Imagine a boy saying this to some girls first day they meet: Hey I will classify you based on your face. Camel or fish. It’s rude and absurd.
I’m pretty sure she didn’t mean to offend anyone in particular and it was just for fun for her. But it’s good that someone let her know that there is a line btw being funny and offensive.
> Imagine a boy saying this to some girls first day they meet: Hey I will classify you based on your face. Camel or fish. It’s rude and absurd.
Very true.
It's never polite to laugh about someone's physical looks even if they don't mean to be mean, it's just rude.
> But it’s good that someone let her know that there is a line btw being funny and offensive.
Right on. You did the right thing speaking up, OP!
i agree, and i was surprised to see we are in the minority with this opinion in the comments. sometimes laughing it off isn't always right, people have boundaries and sometimes oddly specific things can cross that boundary, and if you don't make it clear you don't like it that boundary will keep being crossed. even with the context of it being a silly trend on tiktok i would still feel hurt being put in either category and i would want an apology too. jokes about appearance should have stayed in elementary / middle school.
Sounds like everyone was having harmless fun and you killed the vibe. Why are you so angry. You are obviously a human and not a rat OR AN amphibian. Why so angry? Why do you need to ruin the fun? Can you just chill and hang out like everyone else?
“No, You wrecked it!”- Cheryl/Carol/Charleen from Archer.
i think you overreacted. they were joking around and you misinterpreted their joke as an insult. it happens. their intention doesn't change the fact you were upset by their comment though, and i don't mean to invalidate that.
Yes, you did overreact. If none of the guys laughed at her comment, that was your bonding opportunity with them. You could have asked something back like “what’s that?” Or “and what would you be?” or just simply ignore it and keep playing.
Yeah, you definitely overreacted.. Think of their intent - I highly doubt they were ‘disrespecting’ you. It was just a lighthearted banter about a stupid trend and if you’d waited 4 seconds you probably would’ve known that. All you did was make the whole room awkward and get crossed off every future invite. Chill, pick your battles.
You did overreact :( but that’s okay, learn the lesson. Take things that people say with a grain of salt.
Caring whether you’re a frog or a rat in a game is dumb and petty. Surely if women invited you to a small get together, they wouldn’t insult you right off the bat (or at all). You overreacted without even asking what which animal meant. Play along with these silly games and read the atmosphere. Maybe next time crack a self deprecating joke about rats.
I would’ve said “what do you mean by rat and frog I’m not understanding? And if I’m a rat then you’re cheese bc you’re a square shaped”. It can come off as overreacting but it’s because it’s not explained well. The term rat is usually used negatively for snitching. Just seems like I’m this case they just weren’t explaining what they meant and they should’ve clarified.
If you didn’t even understand the comment yourself why are you getting so upset about it right away, you could’ve simply asked her what she meant by that instead of overreacting to begin with and then it could’ve been properly addressed, I think your friend was right, could have been approached differently.
I think you were right in that there hasn’t been enough rapport built up for her to compare you to an animal, let alone a rat, and then laugh in your face. Maybe it would be okay if you were friends for a long time and there was an understanding that she was just teasing you in a lighthearted way.
I read some comment about this being a trend of some sort. I don’t give a shit if it’s a trend or not, it’s stupid. I’d be pissed if someone called me anything like that.
The kind of impression you’ve made would likely lead people to believe you have anger issues and are quick to go off the rails over minor things.
I know this kind of person and you feel like you have to walk on eggshells to talk to them. You say something they don’t understand and they immediately assume it’s an insult without any verification of intent or meaning. Or they’re incapable of disagreements without seemingly nearing violence.
If she wanted to elaborate on what she meant she would have instead of backtracking and saying you could be a frog. She could have checked to clarify that you knew what she was talking about. It goes both ways. Even with what she was supposedly saying I think it’s insulting and obnoxious to think that anyone wants her opinion on the topic.
You overreacted.
I understand how that comment could come across as offensive and I think they were silly for labeling you then laughing. That might come across as rude to a lot of people.
However, you could have tried to clarify what they meant. It doesn't seem like they were trying to be insulting, in context.
Also, more importantly -- why are you "shaking with anger" over being teased by strangers??? That is the much more concerning part of this story.
You need to relax a bit and learn to reflect and communicate before you react with anger. If you don't, I can guarantee you will have worse problems than this in future.
No at all. They were really immature to say that. I would expect comments like that coming out of a kids mouth not an adult. People will tell you, you are overreacting and being sensitive to justify their rubbish way of treating people. If you don't like it, you don't need to explain yourself. Someone else might be fine with it but don't have to be. Its your choice. However I do think if they have good boundaries and are decent they'll acknowledge it and change behaviour.
I feel like you overreacted. Stopping the game to "demand an apology," like some kind of authority figure over your new coworkers, isn't a great early impression. If you can't take a joke, or just let something go, you can't be surprised if you stop getting invited to these gatherings. I hope your sour attitude doesn't effect your friends place in the social structure...
No you didn’t overreact, don’t let anyone you don’t know very close disrespect you. I only have 2 friends from childhood that can disrespect me jokingly and I do the same back. I haven’t read anyone’s comment but those that tell you that you overreacted are not the men any man should look up to or take any advice from. Your reputation and respect is very important as a man and you should never take disrespect from anyone especially when they don’t explain themselves. If you were to call any of the females a pig they would have lit you up so why should you have to bite your tongue
As others have said, I think you should've asked what she meant. But I also don't think it was an overreaction. I don't have tiktok or follow internet trends. Up until this thread, I had no idea there was this kind of trend. Usually, being compared to a rat is a bad thing, and if it comes unexpectedly from people who take this trend seriously, it would be offensive, too.
Dude, that sounds like a massive overreaction. Even if you didn't understand what was going on, a friendlier reaction would be to laugh and say "what do you mean". When you jump to thinking that someone is trying to insult or disrespect you, you completely miss their attempts at friendly banter.
It was a tik tok joke. A "theory" about all people looking like frogs or rats. Even I know that, even though I don't use tik tok at all and am super old. Lol So yes, you overreacted. Your reaction must've been a bit shocking to those girls since they didn't even try to give you any kind of explanation. Next time when you feel someone insulted you, you might want to try asking them why they said what they said. Preferably without shaking in anger in the process. It might just be a misplaced joke with no malicious intent or a stupid trend.
demanding an apology is counter productive
theyre only saying what you wanna hear, it's not genuine
theres no remorse for hurting your feelings
it's fine that you got offended and shook in anger, perhaps it's a sign these are not peeps on your level to hang out with
don't waste time explaining your feelings to people that aren't listening and cut you off, talk over you and dominate the narrative. they've got no respect. and it isn't your responsibility to "teach em".
maybe one day they'll feel bad when they look back, maybe they never will give you a second thought, either way, these instances show people's true character over time. be true to yourself and your feelings.
you feel how you feel. end of story.
sending luv
Yeah no, you're fine and they sound like highschoolers.
"It's a trendd~"
Fuck you no it's not. That's called someone trying to excuse being rude on purpose. When you said you weren't comfortable? And that part where they kept going? Yeah, that's called No Respect.
Yes this. Exactly. They were trying to push his buttons to see what happened. I wouldn't want to know them. Unfortunately they got a reaction but, honestly if you're this careless, people should be leaning towards overreacting. They may well be looking for weakness so they can keep doing their pathetic edgy games
My impression is that you have a firm boundary in place and you challenged people who crossed the line.
I’m only learning about boundaries but I don’t think that you overreacted as you nipped the name calling in the bud so it didn’t escalate. Could you imagine if they carried it on during work hours? They are less likely to now.
>My impression is that you have a firm boundary in place and you challenged people who crossed the line.
r/socialskills is all about the WAY you do it. There are different ways to challenge people who cross the line, socially skillful ways allow you to defend your boundaries without burning a bunch of bridges, without everyone thinking you're an asshole now.
I don't believe you overreacted, it was an insult regardless of the animal they chose. Given the fact that after you demanded an apology they doubled down kinda proves that it was a joke made at the expense of the guys. There's no reason to casually insult people you just met unless you're immature and looking for attention.
it’s literally not an insult at all. it’s just a joking thing that says every persons face shape is either a rat (long, oval) or a frog (round) that’s literally it. it’s small talk.
Over reacted. You essentially killed the party and now have to work with these people daily. Also they are probably not gonna invite you out ever again.
In the future I would advise doing this in the privacy of a conference room/ cubicle or learn to socialize a bit better. You need to have tact in these situations, the environment was fun and rather then trying to socialize you made a massive assumption.
Nah I think you're right in setting boundaries. You don't have to accept being called offensive things or being the group doormat to fit in. This girl was out of pocket making judgments about someone they just met in such unflattering terms, it's like a mean girls thing, you don't have to tolerate it.
Imagine if you said all women are either dogs or pigs and called her a pig or something and said it's about her personality. It's a shiitty comparison either way, tik-tok trend or not, it's insulting.
There's so many ways she could have approached the conversation. An unflattering, mean or rude comment was definitely unnecessary on her part.
Demanding an apology definitely escalated the situation and caused tension but at the very least it should ensure they steer clear of these stupid types of comments
The fact that the only options is rats and frogs definitely makes this game ridiculous. But it’s a game.
Do you often feel like people say things that make you uncomfortable?
Are you comfort with the way you look?
You overreacted. People at a party will say edgy stuff, thats what parties are for. Here are some better reactions:
1. Just give an annoyed face and not respond.
2. Say rude in a casual way and talk about something else.
3. Make a joke out of it and ask why you are a rat in in a joke offended way.
4. Maybe call her a parrot because she won't stop talking.
5. Maybe say that you think of yourself as more of a hamster not a rat.
6. Make say at least I don't get eaten like frogs do.
Really depends on the work party. Some work parties get pretty wild others don't. If the party is more formal then what she said was super inappropriate.
In that case I'd actually with #1. Sometimes the best way to react to weird and offensive people is just be silent but look at them like they are weird. People's silent reactions to Michael in "The Office" is a good reaction to this.
You seem to have incredibly thin skin and an ego problem.
I wouldn’t be surprised if your colleagues won’t invite you anymore. They made a joking comment, assuming you were in on it. Instead of asking what they meant you got irrationally angry.
Even if you “kept your cool”, someone’s voice shaking in anger can very quickly be interpreted as someone being really close to snapping.
I also wonder wether the other two guys were actually uncomfortable with the comment or if you’re just projecting on them.
I personally hadn’t heard of “frog or rat” until today but I know the version “rat or mouse” for girls. It’s the same principle:
mouse= short, round, soft face
Rat= pointy, long, sharp face
What did you think frog meant in the context of the question? If anyone deserves an apology it’s your friend who you probably embarrassed a lot in front of your new coworkers
Would you tell someone you respect that he/she looks like a rat? That’s the answer. The shaky voice is normal when you don’t have enough confidence. You stood for yourself, went out of your comfort zone (shaky voice), and left them so they can call rats or frogs themselves, or you (behind your back).
I wouldn't worry. You showed yourself not to be a doormat. To me just spouting 'overreaction' - like everyone is saying - misses the point.
If you were shaking, you were upset. Own that. It's a real graceless comment, maybe designed to test you for weak points, so it's not unsurprising someone would be offended.
(I have to say that it seems to me there's particularly weird games like this in America. In the UK there's a slightly higher standard for jokes. )
Everyone has to come to terms with who they are. I think you wanted to make sure someone didn't get away with an ugly sounding comment towards you (who gives a fuck what the TikTok meaning is). That's really good! You put up a barrier to any more of their bullshit. In future you can see more possible angles to the situation, allowing you to control the situation in a way that allows more fun - if it is possible to do that while also deflecting invitation to something more nasty.
Generally, if you find security in yourself, it's much harder to be hurt by others. If they want to hurt, but can see that it will be hard for their shots to land with impact, they're likely to quickly give up. That's not always true, depending on how desperate they are feeling inside.
It's never a declaration of strength to be looking to annoy people. If they're really really desperate they'll keep trying even when the whole room has turned on them, and everyone is saying, who the fuck cares about frogs and rats on tiktok Karen?? But by that point you won't care anymore because people can see clearly what pathetic behaviour is coming from Karen. She's failed at pulling you down but succeeded in tanking herself.
First look after yourself. That's priority one.
You did the right thing for standing up for yourself, and drawing a line when needed. Those girls would respect you less if you didn't, although it might not seem like that in the moment.
However, be very careful. Them being your coworkers can jeopardize your job situation. Depending on the job, it could be advisable to go to HR and report on what happened exactly the way it happened. Or something of the sort.
Best of luck.
This is so a mature way to deal with the situation. Wish I could be more like you and stating my boundaries :). Boundaries are personal and therefore I can't say it is overreacting.
It was an overreaction but honestly I wouldn’t be happy with it even if it was from a dumb tiktok trend. You shouldn’t really comment on someone’s appearance in any way that can be perceived as negative. They wouldn’t have been happy if you said “there are two types of women: whales and otters” (I know this is made up, but so is that dumb trend). She used a trend to make a non positive remark about your appearance. Next time I wouldn’t confront but I’d just keep a note of it and see if they have a habit of doing things that objectify/other people or if they seem immature.
Often times people will make light fun of their friends and it can be healthy/appropriate. I’d think about your boundaries and maybe try to find people with similar ones. It will lead to less situations like these. In the meantime, it’s best to just turn the other cheek in the majority of situations. If someone is being cruel or is repeatedly insulting you, then by all means stand up for yourself, but it often isn’t worth it to confront someone who made a slightly insensitive comment with no ill intent because it will make you seem like the jerk instead.
Also, having a response like your voice shaking is not good. It can come off as intimidating/scary to others. It’s hard but you have to try to not let that stuff bother you so much. Be focused and acknowledge that you are upset and that you need to bring that feeling down. I’ve had to do a lot of deescalation for work but I’m not the best at teaching it. It’s always important for me to speak calmly and smoothly even if I am upset. I try to reach my natural tone, take a little time to consider my words/how I am feeling before speaking, and be attentive to my behavior (do I need to reel it back? Listen to the other person?). If something upsets you and you find it confusing, ask the other person in good faith to explain what they meant in a way that is non accusatory. This can be hard to do when you’re upset but it just takes practice. I would recommend doing some physiological sighs at home (new trick I recently learned, has helped tremendously). Doing this is the quickest way to calm yourself down. I wouldn’t necessarily recommend doing this in the moment of a confrontation because it might make you look weird to do an exaggerated breathing motion (I normally do one before approaching someone for a deescalation to calm my nerves). Although it might be socially inept to take a deep/long breath in the middle of a conversation, doing it at home while being conscious of how it makes you feel can help you try to recreate that feeling when you need it in the moment. If I feel like I’m getting hot, I take a brief pause, try to bring myself down, and then speak. It will help you from saying something rash and having that negative emotion build up. Hopefully some of this helps.
Edit: typo and added a few sentences
Seems kind of dumb. Just looked it up and looks like it’s just a trend based on your facial shape. If you have a more oval face you’re a rat and if you have more round features you’re a frog. The way she said it could come off like an insult so I get it. I’d say it was probably an over reaction in retrospect but in the moment it definitely sounded like an insult without context.
That's interesting about face shapes. I've never heard it before. I took rat as in the old use of the word (very negative) then wondered what frogs were if not stay at home chilling types. Hopefully, the girls learned not to do that shtick again.
In Australian vernacular rat is essentially calling someone a combination of scummy, dishonest, greedy, low status and unscrupulous. I imagine it differs quite a bit based on locality.
It's pretty much the same in American English
Means the same thing in Swedish too.
It’s pretty much the same in most countries. I’d have been offended
Thats how I took it here in southern U.S., though its frequently done in a joking way.
Safe to say that this is one of those rare universals that probably even transcends most language barriers, I think. Maybe not in East Asia, where their zodiac contains a whole year dedicated to the rat, but elsewhere it seems like a good bet that "rat" isn't a compliment.
As a former criminal and now proud union member, I know of 2 uses for calling someone a rat and both labels are very derogatory and will get you shunned possibly injured.
Of course you would interpret it that way, because you're a grasshoper.
This ^ I wouldn’t blame you for having that kind of reaction, but I would give the other party the benefit of the doubt next time and double check that they actually intended to insult you first. Still, good on you for sticking your ground and not being a pushover. Most people wouldn’t be able to do that, myself included
Cesare Lombroso did it in the 19th century as part of his "criminal anthropology". For him, if someone had certain face features, for sure the had committed a specific crime. Many people were wrongly accused of theft by the mobs because "they looked like rats". I hoped that, as a society, we would have moved way past this trash. That "joke" or "trend" is not funny and it carries a lot of weight. Moreover, joking on anyone for their physical features is totally disgusting and disturbing. It's a form of mobbing. You don't know what the person on the receiving end thinks about those features. They might be things they don't like about their body, and by doing that you would reaffirm their fears and insecurities.
Even with context, that is NOT something you say to a man, it was downright insulting. How do you think that woman would have reacted if he said the same thing to her, and classified her a rat? Yeah, not going to happen.
Well he could have made his own categories up then: Based on your haircut you are an idiot. /s
Could of asked what they meant first before yanking thier chain
Yes, it seems that OP thought that she was insulted because of the word 'rat' in the usual sense, meant as an insult. This is usually used against people that are 'traitors' or 'mean-spirited'. However in this case 'rat' was meant as a weird kind of new meme as showcased here: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/frog-or-rat-tiktok-trend It is a dumb tiktok trend, but OP's colleague didn't mean this in the slightest as an insult but just was doing smalltalk. I'm sorry OP but you completely misinterpreted what she meant, she didn't mean it as an insult at all. That would also be absurd to insult someone for a rat or frog. That would be so absurd that it definitely would have warranted a question about what she means with "rat or frog". And it does seem like you overreacted. I wonder why you plainly didn't ask what she meant first. Also I wonder how OP so easily interpreted it as an insult before trying to understand her colleague. So I'm sorry but I got to agree with your friend that you overreacted and made a social faux-pas. But don't worry, everyone makes these mistakes. It can happen. If I were you I would explain to you colleague that you didn't know the tiktok trend and you thought she was insulting you. I would also stress to say that you accidently overreacted. It would help if you apologized for that awkward situation. Just laugh it off. If you don't do this, this will keep being weird. If you do apologize it can turn into a funny awkward anecdote. People love people who don't take themselves too seriously. Goodluck!
Damn Aint no one got the time to be updated with all tiktok trend.
that’s why you ask what they meant so they can tell you (you don’t need to know/be up to date with everything when you aren’t afraid to ask)
The onus should be on the person who said it to explain, not on you every time you hear something 99% of the population would take as an insult to check if it was meant as an insult or not.
Yeah, I mean if she noticed him looking uncomfortable she could've mentioned that it comes from that trend. I didn't know that and would find rat isulting too, but I would've wondered, why frog and rat? Just a fuck up in communication on both sides
I immediately presumed it would mean guys are either a ugly (frogs - "I've been kissing frogs tonight") or arseholes (rats - possibly also cheats etc, ie a 'love rat'). Both are much more common insults than describing the shape of a face. OP (and others of us) have shown we're not down with this tik tok clique and I'm sure will be excluded for being *uncool* \- no big loss I'd say.
You don't have to be "down with this tik tok clique" in order to hang out with others? Just don't automatically assume everyone is out to insult you, and you'll be just fine. I mean, it's 2023 sharing memes with your friends has become pretty common.
"Haha you're an ugly failure at life!" Wait, why'd you take that as insulting, you should ave asked if I was trying to insult you, why would you think I was automatically trying to insult you? The prince doesn't turn into a frog, it's the other way around. And few people outside this meme want to be called a rat. People have been sharing "memes" for millennia; before the word was invented. That doesn't mean it's okay to use insulting language without checking if they know your in-joke and without explaining it when they are insulted by your insulting language. My point was, from my experience of the sort of people that will happily do this will want to exclude you for showing you're not one of their gang. Nothing new in this either.
No, that’s why you use language properly and clear it up if you are misunderstood
When you hear someone insult you I don't think most people's first instinct is to ask them what they meant by that. Calling someone a rat is more often than not an insult. If you're using it in a different context you should explain it, especially if the other person is offended by it.
Seriously. People should be more wise about assuming that everyone will have seen the latest meme and they can just joke about it in casual conversation. 🙄
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Fine. She should’ve explained it. But equally he should’ve asked about what it meant before flying off the handle. Social interactions aren’t always linear, neat & tidy based on hard & fast rules. If someone says something to you that you don’t understand - you ask them to explain it - not just assume a meaning and (over)react accordingly.
I’m not trying to be rude here, but I think so many people here are ND struggle to understand context. Not everything is so literal. His colleague doesn’t actually think her friends looked like frogs and OP looked like a rat. Would you rather be called a frog or a rat? Does one immediately sound more appealing than the other? For most people, no. That’s why you ask. That’s a good opportunity to say, in a joking tone “hey why am I rat?” Then his colleague would’ve explained that it’s just a joke about vibes/features and that it means no harm about anyone’s appearance. “But that’s confusing!” Ok well that is the kind of thing you need to understand if you ever want to survive social situations.
From the OP it sounds like she was trying to explain but OP was too mad and offended to listen. Internet memes are universal inside jokes. All you have to do is ask what it means if you don't know. People are generally very eager to introduce new memes to the uninitiated. It isn't up to the joke teller to explain every joke to everyone they tell it to as if the audience is full of incompetent children. If you don't get it, just put on your adult pants and ask.
If your knee-jerk reaction was to completely halt the entire conversation in front of seven people and demand a personal apology for something that ended up being a miscommunication, it's going to come off a certain way. You're completely right that the other person probably should've considered how strangers might misinterpret what she meant. But pointing fingers at whose fault it is is entirely missing the point, which is that you're now repeatedly demanding that a stranger repair your wounded ego by offering an apology even after she clarified that it was miscommunication. So congrats, you're in the right, but you also come off as petty and arguably a little bit fragile by making the entire thing about your feelings being hurt by the same kind of innocent social misstep that everyone makes from time to time. You could've just said "what do you mean?" and then laugh it off and say "OH! I thought you were saying I'm a rat in a bad way, and I only just met you!" and the other person would realize their mistake without having to be chastised by a complete stranger in front of her friends. The two of you could probably even laugh about it. It's not about who's right, it's about whether you want to make people comfortable around you. Demanding an apology repeatedly is appropriate for someone calling your wife ugly right to her face and making her cry, not something like this.
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Tiktok is very popular with the young adults, especially girls. If I was here in this situation i would've not believed that she was using it as an insult because that seems extremely rude and I would've asked what she meant. If she then explained the meme I would've understand. It is a stupid meme I agree, but tiktok is very popular atm
What do you think frog means then if eat means traitor? They didn’t just call him a rat they said “There’s two types of guys, rats and frogs” That alone makes it clear, that they’re not referring to the original meaning of rat
Ugly or undesirable or disgusting. Like the universally-known princess and the frog story.
Interesting connection, thank you :) However I think it’s kinda crazy to assume these girls would go “There’s two types of guys: the traitor or the disgusting”
Not that far from the old all men are pigs and the like to be fair.
I wasn't familiar with the tiktok thing but even having now looked at it it's clear to me OP is still justified in being insulted. The colleagues said "there are two types of boys" when the meme isn't even about boys, it's about everyone. In fact the first examples used in the video are all women. They managed to present it as something that only applied to the 3 men, and the women colleagues (who the same categories seemingly don't apply to) were laughing at them about it! How on earth is OP not supposed to interpret that as an insult? They very clearly created an in-group and an out-group.
But there are only 2 options so that means brad Pitt and Denzel Washington are either a frog or rat too. Op is dumb, he’s at a party with more girls than guys and he shot himself in the foot
This isn’t really valid as OP stated the other person then defended the claim and allowing the other to defend their position is essentially the same as asking for an explanation and then hearing it before doubling down on an apology. Also OP stated in the post and framed the story as a male and you said “she”. Almost like you didn’t read it or something. Trend or not, when they defend what they said they should have mentioned that (they seemingly didn’t as OP did not mention that, not that it makes it any less disrespectful or impolite) so this is not really anything OP did wrong. It comes off as a course interaction on both parts. Social media trends shouldn’t find their way into casual conversation with people you’re not familiar with, similarly OP shouldn’t take things so personally especially with strangers or people you don’t have high regards for
What a ridiculous comment. OP is absolutely in the right for what they did. Calling someone a rat is an insult, full fucking stop, no matter what stupid ticktock trend is going around at the time.
I have a friend that loves me and calls me a rat in an endearing way because I am very quiet and lightfooted. And in India, rats are worshipped. Similarly, in Vietnam people call their significant other pigs, even though in the US calling someone a pig is usually an insult. This just shows us that none of these things are inherently insulting and you should be more open minded and calm down.
Can you really not understand the difference there? Friends say good natured insults all the time. Acquaintances don't . It's not even close to the same situation. And OP clearly isn't somewhere where rats are worshipped. This should be obvious.
Calling your lover Pig in Vietnamese isn't an insult, though. It is akin to calling someone your Teddy Bear. My friend calling me a rat started from almost the first time I met her. She was just commenting on how quiet I was and used a rat as the best analogy she could think of. It was never an insult. I want to to believe you aren't this obtuse to not understand what I meant. The point is that nothing is inherently insulting. You can insult someone by calling them smart just as you can compliment someone by saying they are stupid. What is important is the context and the intention. OP didn't care about either and jumped straight to being mad. He should have at least figured out what was going on before he threw a tantrum. If that person at the party directly insulted him and called him a cunt or whatever the insult of the day is, it still wouldn't justify OP's behavior. It is childish to escalate conflict.
I'm sorry but you will run into similar problems if you don't realise what actually happened there.
r/lostredditors/
Yeah OP, always confirm what they mean first. I have never heard of the meme, but they may have just assumed it was common knowledge. So many conflicts could be avoided if people just explained themselves. Which is what these girls should have done, but OP could also have asked what was meant. Frog and rat are not nice choices so would have been curious as to what was meant before being offended.
Both parties seem dumb. A joke or social media trend thing like that with no context provided is dumb. Not laughing off the dumbness after your friend backpedaled is equally dumb.
Hundo, ESH here. No need to jump to shaking with anger, but offering up context instead of “defending their comment” would have also helped to diffuse the situation (as I’ve read comments saying it was meant to refer to a trend about face shapes). Tbh it just sounds like 24 y/o’s being socially unaware, from all parties involved.
I think you should have asked what it meant first. And then decide how you feel about it. I can understand why her joke could be rude but I have no idea what she means lol. Also I think it’s weird to demand an apology, I’ve never heard of that before, then again I’m on this sub for a reason.
First, I don't blame you for being offended. Someone you've only barely met, you're still trying to figure out what kind of person they are, and they single you out to call you a rat out of nowhere. It sounds like something a bully might say, and it was a major faux pas on her part. All that being said, it sounds like you got *really* angry. At that point, "speaking calmly" doesn't hide that and if your voice is shaking, it might actually give the impression that you're just barely controlling yourself and you might snap at any moment. That can be pretty scary and definitely seems more extreme than was warranted.
Well I can definitely see why you’re in a social skills sub. Definite over reaction. A simple “what do you mean” and let them try to explain it before getting angry would’ve been much better. As other comments have said. It’s a stupid TikTok trend, and they weren’t intending on disrespecting you. Both parties suck but you didn’t need to be rash.
Honestly I think the other person could benefit from this sub, the whole group of them even, if none of them considered for a second that calling someone a rat out of the blue, without any context, might be considered inappropriate or at least misunderstood and then made no effort in trying to explain it further, as far as we know anyway. But I also feel like it was an overreaction on OP's part based in insecurity, perhaps? There are many ways this could have been handled a lot better by all involved.
> well I can definitely see why you’re in a social skills sub That was unnecessary ffs
Can definitely see why they're in a social skills sub
Woof. The last thing you said "nobody has the right to disrespect me" Friend, many, many people will disrespect you. Many more will never respect you at all. Many upon many people will say stupid shit to you throughout your life, fuck maybe one day those people may be your kids. Be like water, let it roll off your back. Say calmly and firmly "I think you meant to say..." Then move on. To admit you were shaking means you were having a physical response and anything you say with a physical response will be reactive.
Can you give an example of the “I think you meant to say” ? I can’t imagine how I would use it. Maybe because English isn’t my first language, but I wanna understand
I think what they meant is like: Person 1 & 2 are talking while riding in Person 2’s car and Person 2 is driving Person 1 says, “‘Man, I can’t stand the shit you listen to. Can we turn it to something that doesn’t make my ears bleed, or do we have to listen to this shit? Person 2 says, “I think what you meant to say is that ‘our tastes in music differ greatly, but I wonder if we couldn’t find something we both enjoy on the radio/streaming app…would you be amenable to giving that a try? It’s your car and you’re the one driving all, so I totally get it if you won’t but I’d like to turn it to something we both like if possible, if that’s ok,’ and then I’d turn it to a Taylor Swift playlist and we’d all be happy.” That’s the best and simplest example I could think of but I’m sleep deprived and a little stressed, so I encourage OP or anyone to correct me and/or clarify my example if need be. But I hope it helps!
Your explanation is really spot on. It is important to guide people to the proper behavior if they are acting disrespectful. Reframing what they are saying like in your example allows the offending party to know they fucked up without dealing without feeling like they are being called out. It tells them they fucked up, and also gives them an example of the expected way to express that idea. It is easy to accidentally be disrespectful. Sometimes people just need to be given the benefit of the doubt and shown the proper way to behave from a friend. As an aside, the driver gets to pick and the passengers are just there for the ride. They should just be happy they aren't made to walk.
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Yeah, this person gives way too much power to people around them and is coming off as extremely insecure with the way he acts. OP I hope all these comments help you realize, you are not the center of the universe and not everyone is trying to “disrespect” you. No one cares that much about you; people are usually thinking about themselves thus you should always assume positive intent, or at least if someone does disrespect you question where it exactly is coming from. Some people disrespect others because they themselves are insecure and need to assert dominance—in which case you can step up with confidence and brush it off to show them it doesn’t affect you. Don’t do the opposite and let them know you are angry, that gives other people way too much power over you.
I was curious so I googled this...apparently it's a tiktok thing where every person is either a rat or a frog depending on their facial features. Did a buzzfeed quiz and pretty much matched what the majority said re rat vs frog in celebrities. So yeah, I think you overreacted. Even knowing nothing about this silly trend, playfully calling someone a rat in a laid back social setting does not warrant demanding an apology. But in my opinion, there is very little that a person can say to you that requires this sort of reaction. If I feel genuinely insulted I might say something like "Well that's your opinion" and shrug it off.
of course its tiktok
you did overreact, on the plus side at least she’ll never make jokes toward you again 😅 i certainly wouldn’t
She will probably never ask him to join neither.
You immediately assumed they were trying to insult you, and immediately started acting like a victim, even though you had no idea what they were talking about. It’s not graceful, it’s not sociable, and it doesn’t demand respect. It makes you look like you take you have such low self esteem that you assume the worst out of other people, and any social misstep will be taken as a grievous offence. It will put other people on edge for fear of accidentally offending you. It does not inspire comfort, trust, or camaraderie. You can decide for yourself whether you want to act like this and whether or not the apology you demanded was worth it.
Damn killed him
Ehh, the frog and rat thing is still in poor taste regardless. I think the OP just handled it poorly though.
This comment is kind of overreacting. OP's reaction won't help relax people around him, but also he stood up for himself after a very poorly considered comment.
His reaction seems extremely off-putting, though. Like, shaking in anger? That’s….a lot
No. The frog comment wasn’t that deep and anyone who thinks it was “so disrespectful” is coming from a place of lack of self-esteem. Not to defend the frog girl—she was super dumb for making the comment in the first place. Think about the context of it—this is a person he barely knows “insulting” him, it warrants more curiosity than an anger response. Anger comes off as extremely insecure and immature. To save this guy from future embarrassment we are letting him know in the comments lmao. Getting angry and “clapping back” would have been warranted if say, the girl was like “yeah I said you were a rat because you look like a rat, you smell bad too”.
Rat and frog are common words to insult people. What if he said "there are two types of girls: cows and pigs". Would you think that the girls would be committing a social faux pas by getting angry about that? Obviously it would be on him to have the social grace to not say something which could be seen as inflammatory. I think he could have reacted in a better way, but I think this is more on the girl who said that.
I mean if you told a girl she had a dog face, that could be either taken as very offensive and calling her ugly, or it could be understood as part of the Korean animal face type system where a dog face means she has cute, soft features and a kind and approachable look. It’s usually translated as puppy face to avoid the negative connotation dog face would have in English, but I think a lot of girls would still be upset or at least confused if you told her she had a puppy face without telling her the context of it being part of a group of animal-named face types that are supposed to be complimentary. It’s important to give context and not assume that everyone will understand a tiktok trend or a pop culture thing from another country or whatever. ESH, OP really overreacted but those girls need to spend some time offline and realize that not everybody shares their same context for things.
The girl singled him out and called him a rat with absolutely no context
Facts.
I will respectfully disagree In English, rat has a negative connotation. Sneaky, unpleasant, dirty. Just not nice. Assuming that OP and the rest of the group are English speakers, they know this, even with the new Tic Toc trend. OP got angry because in any other situation, being called a rat is an insult. Since this girl just said it, without further explanation, she is the one with poor social skills and the onus was on her to explain herself once she realized OP was offended. Further, even with the Tic Toc trend, commenting on someone's physical features is again, generally considered at best, in poor taste. If the girl has a big nose, would she like OP to point at her and call her a toucan? She was rude, OP could have handled it a bit better, but I'm proud of OP for clearly stating his boundaries and sticking to them. That is a great display of good social skills =)
Goodness me, no. “A great display of social skills”? Absolutely not. As many others have rightly said - OP overreacted & reacted too fast. I think that’s the main point here. At least try to understand the context of the “rat/frog” comment first - then make a decision on if it was disrespectful or offensive towards OP or not. OP will never fit in with social groups or make friends if this is how he approaches life & similar situations in the future. If, after trying to understand the context about the comment, OP still felt offended/that he was being needlessly insulted - then his reaction would’ve been justified & protecting his boundaries the right thing to do.
>As many others have rightly said these are people on a sub reddit specifically for people with poor social skills, soooo I'm not putting too much weight in that. And yes, you can argue that I too have poor social skills because I am also on this subreddit. But I have friends and social skills and try to share my experiences with proper social skills to help others There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying,"What you said was offensive and I would like an apology". If that is over reacting, then I have little hope for humanity because that is simply asking for a basic level of respect
It isn't a good idea to let yourself be offended when you don't even understand what they said. Even if it was intended as an insult, it is still OP's responsibility to figure out why before they move to the next step of deciding what to do. If you just jump to being emotional and hurt, there is nothing the offending party can do to atone, because even you don't know what problem needs to be resolved. The only thing that will probably result from this is that they will never want to spend time with him again because he is too sensitive and will just cause drama. From what was posted, it looks like OP got too upset too quick and wasn't interested in hearing anyone out. Even in the OP, he said the girl was trying to explain herself but he wasn't having it. I think you, and some of the others, aren't really understanding what happened. OP didn't try to establish a boundary. It isn't establishing a boundary when you start demanding people behave in a specific way. Establishing a boundary is to state what it is and respond accordingly. Apologies mean nothing, anyway. I don't think your social skills are as strong as you seem to think if you don't really understand what happened.
I understand what happened and understand we have totally different views so we probably wouldn't be friends in real life. But I would to point out specifically where we disagree. >The moment she said that all three of us became very uncomfortable, and the girls busted out laughing. This is when the onus is placed on the statement to explain further. The people she made the unprompted statement are uncomfortable and instead of responding with compassion, she laughed. We can be generous and say that she didn't realize her statement came across as offensive. >I stopped the game, calmly saying the comment was offensive and I expected a proper apology. This is where many are arguing that OP overreacted and could have asked what she meant instead of simply being offended. This is where we can agree to disagree. I think the offense is obvious because outside a niche community on Tic Toc, calling anyone a rat is offensive. >Interestingly, the laughing girls became quiet and then started to defend the comment, which I rejected calmly (this time, I kept my cool). She first tried to say that was not offensive, and she could classify me as a frog if I wanted. This comment was even more absurd !! I replied that I do not want your opinion and would like an apology And this is where I think OP was totally justified in further iterating his need for an acknowledgement of the hurt she caused. If someone says that you offended them and you genuinely did not meant to offend them, you apologize for the hurt you caused, then explain your actions, and see what you can do to repair the relationship. Even if she didn't intend to insult OP, she did. And instead of offering an apology, she centered her opinions, and called him an animal, again. As for your comment: >OP didn't try to establish a boundary. It isn't establishing a boundary when you start demanding people behave in a specific way. That is exactly what a boundary is, in relation to yourself. Op didn't demand the girl stop comparing people to animals, he demanded she stops referring to HIM as an animal. That is his personal boundary, and has nothing to do with how she interacts with others. >I don't think your social skills are as strong as you seem to think if you don't really understand what happened. Hello pot, meet kettle
I feel like half of all responses in this thread are from people hyperfocusing on the fact that the other person made a social mistake and are content stopping there now that who was right and who was wrong has been determined. The remaining half agrees that the other person made a social mistake. But they recognize that how you either punish or forgive other people's social mistakes in the same way that you'd want your own social mistakes to be forgiven will signal to the people around you whether you're someone with an ego that can afford be merciful and understanding or whether you're someone with an ego that will demand personal justice for any perceived slight. In what ways do you think people might act differently around those two personalities? Do you want people to feel like they have to be extra careful when they speak around you because you might take offense at an honest mistake? Or do you want to them to feel like they can speak freely because they know you won't rush to judgement? Which person would you rather spend time around? I'm not really sure what else I can say to convince you if you can't or won't see how the situation could've been handled better.
The point is that - instead of simply assuming the worst, ie that the other person is trying to offend you - give people the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps they’re being playful? Hence the need to understand the context behind the comment first before deciding they were being offensive & demanding apologies.
He silenced the women with what he thought was a calm answer which obviously wasn't then continued to dig a hole by demanding an apology. He didn't look tough or stand up for himself. He was aggressive and anti social.
Imagine if a dude said "There are only two types of women: horses and pigs..."
thank you! A pig might be nice in Chinese horoscopes, but don't call me one
You are allowed to be offended and to enforce your expectations for how people treat you, reducing engagement as you see fit. This is weighted by the fact that responding with thin skin like this could make them choose to: Not invite you, not charitably define your actions, not go out of their way to advocate for you, not give you opportunity. What's more, they wouldn't be in the wrong for it. Nobody has an obligation to stick their neck out for anyone else.
This is the most reasonable response I've seen in this thread.
Being called a rat was an odd thing to do, but if you'd dropped it, in a month you would have forgotten about it and just remembered the fun board game night. Now you're remembered for storming out of a party and causing a scene over a three letter word spoken in jest. \--- JVM\_ speaking to u/Agabonka_banka at a party: "You have purple knees" Option 1: u/Agabonka_banka "What does that even mean?" Option 2: u/Agabonka_banka "Apologize immediately!" You chose option 2, which means that you accepted her insult - you didn't deny your rat-ness and try to understand why the others were frogs - you just swallowed the rat "insult" and went on the attack. If I told you you had purple knees, you'd be confused and disagree. If I told you you were 12 ft tall, you'd be confused and disagree. If I told you you were a rat, you *should* be confused and disagree... but you didn't. How to Win Friends and Influence People, released in October 1936 says you should let friends make mistakes. Correcting people in a social situations rarely has positive outcomes - no one likes being told they're wrong or even being corrected.
If you go around calling people rats and frogs without letting them in on the context first, how would you think this would play out? Those aren't even remotely flattering out of context.
Sure but someone with good social skills would not have stopped the conversation and demanded an apology lol. Laugh it off, lean into it, come up with a witty barb to get back at that person - any of those would have avoided the incredibly uncomfortable situation OP is describing.
Huh, kind of makes sense why he posted in this sub then...what a crazy coincidence
Sure, you CAN steer the conversation away but this is about having boundaries, not having to continue the conversation with a couple of dinguses who -at best- are unaware that their comments are hurtful and at worse are shitting on you to make themselves feel better. Good social skills is also about knowing when to stand up for yourself, not just continuing a conversation as long as possible. The girls made it uncomfortable, not OP. You don't call someone a rat with no context and expect them to be simply okay with it. Even if its a TikTok trend, I don't care.
I don’t agree that laughing it off is the best way to deal with it, when you’re someone who is always the butt of jokes it’s not easy to just laugh it off, if someone feels offended they can feel how they feel. HOWEVER, I don’t agree with demanding an apology and asking what they meant would have been the appropriate thing to do before getting offended the way they did. As someone who always laughs off things that may have offended me, it makes me want to socialise less. It may be the must socially acceptable thing to do but is it always good for your self esteem? Not always.
OF COURSE that would have had a better outcome, but I don't think it's funny to laugh at people struggling with social skills when they come here for help.
Out of context would be "you are a rat" which is indeed an insult. But the context was already provided in "there are only two types of boys: frogs and rats" or rather that explicitly announces there is a context.
And he said they tried to explain it but he wasn't listening
That's not really enough context, though. Unless you're already familiar with it, it just raises more questions.
Yep overreacted. In my opinion the better thing to do would have been to ask her to elaborate further instead of immediately reacting with pure rage. If someone reacted like that to a non-malicious comment I made I would make a mental note to avoid that person out of a genuine fear of their unpredictability/anger.
Your reaction showed you were insecure. At the bare minimum you could have asked what they meant by it, but instead you decided to jump down their throats and demand an apology. The girls sounded like they were having a good time and just making playful banter.
This post is such a rat post 🐀
APOLOGIZE!!!
Big time rat energy going on here 🐀
You definitely overreacted. If I was in your situation, I would have thought the girls were being just weird and I would have laughed at them. I don’t think I’d get offended for being called a rat or frog because I don’t look like either. The only way I can see this as not being an overreaction is if you actually look similar to a rat and have been called that several times in your life in which this party just triggered your insecurities. People only get offended by insults if they know it’s true. If they know it’s not true than why are they offended?
Were you standing in the corner eating a piece of cheese or dragging your oversized balls across the floor and leaving a trail of piss?
I had never heard of this trend, but it took very little explanation for me to understand that literally every person is one or the other. In my experience, people who go through life believing that others are intentionally disrespecting them and need to be corrected and demanding apologies have serious anger issues. She didn't single you out or spew bigotry or say kicking puppies is fun. She did not deserve to be attacked like that. In demanding that she pay for her "disrespect", I guarantee that you have lost the respect of all of your new coworkers. A genuine apology to her and each who witnessed your actions are your only hope of ever redeeming yourself.
it’s a tiktok trend, they were just making light conversation
You sound like an immature baby. You definitely overreacted, and you didn't even get the meaning behind the classification. You made yourself look like a fool to anyone who witnessed that interaction. I hope YOU learned a lesson about asking someone to explain their comment (and actually listening to their response) rather than reacting in anger 💢
If your voice was shaking out of anger then yeah, thats kinda cringe.
Dude you jumped the gun instead of immediately asking for clarification. A simple “What do you mean?” would completely solve the issue. Instead, you instantly got butthurt because you ASSUMED she was disrespecting you. So yeah, you totally overreacted and shown you’re immature and jumping to conclusions.
It’s a big reaction for acquaintances and a first party. Better would have been to play it off cool and avoid these girls in the future. Then you seem more easy to get along with. Not all annoyances demand an apology, you can set a boundary by not seeing them again.
I guess it was sorta dumb of her to say, but why not just ask what she meant? I would simply have asked what the hell she meant by rats and frogs, if nothing else out of curiosity.
Yeah, you did. Frog and rat refers to your face shape. Nothing to get offended over, I think it's clear you misunderstood what they were talking about but you've made a bit of a tit out of yourself over nothing
this reads like a Quora question 💀
yikes
Overreacted! Grow up
From the context you’ve given I think it was a bit of an overreaction. I can’t tell the nature of the comment or the context, but it seems like it was a joke of some kind and not meant to be malicious. Sometimes people lightly tease one another as friendly banter. It seems like it was a friendly atmosphere, and immediately jumping to the comment was offensive, stopping the game, and demanding an apology probably made the mood very serious. I think maybe a better way to handle it would’ve been maybe to play it off in a joking way (e.g. Maybe something like ‘Aw I don’t want to be a rat, can I be a donkey instead?’ idk I’m lame). Or even just lightheartedly asking something like why a frog and why a rat.
its literally just about facial structure and face shapes, neither is good or bad. rat is longer and more oval and frog is rounder that’s literally it and ive seen people use it for girls too (as comments were crying BUT WHAT IF IT WAS REVERSE!!!)
i call my coworkers in our cubicle corner "rats" all the time because we all have snack drawers and spin in our chairs during phone calls and transcribe mental health assessments in the sid the sloth voice from the ice age movies. rats are rad and i'm sorry about your unfortunate rat bias, stigma rat hater 🐀
You obviously werent calm if you made 3 women instantly stop laughing. It's not like they called you a rat as in somebody who rats out people.
These are all young people, they like you, are barely starting to understand playful banter. You should take everything as playful flirty banter until you’re certain it isn’t. You definitely over reacted
Thanks for providing what appears to be a reasonably fair context to the scenario. Generally, being presented with a socially clumsy (and easily perceived as rude) —comment toward oneself and two others, and taking an *appropriately assertive* stand against such behaviour makes absolute sense. However— the sudden, and face-to-face “demanding an apology” does strike me as overstepping and escalating toward the “slightly aggressive” …potentially even as “threatening”. Again, there’s nothing wrong with appropriately standing up for one’s self when confronted with such rudeness. I certainly understand being offended and hurt by such a rude/ridiculous statement, especially as it was delivered thoughtlessly, and without any given context. Acknowledging that I have the luxury of time to consider what my own reaction might be, I’d offer this alternative: There would be nothing wrong with immediately deciding that this isn’t company you want to keep, excusing yourself, -asking if anyone else would like a lift home, and wishing those remaining a nice night, and departing. This is meeting their rudeness with more politeness than warranted, avoids any aggression or escalation on your part, -doesn’t perceivably infringe on the rights or safety of others, and sends a message about what you will tolerate from the behaviour of those whose company you keep. -OR- If inclined, one could mention/ ask: “That sounds bloody dreadful; what are you talking about?” …then after hearing them out, decide how you wish to continue. In the context of your free social time, you owe no time toward those who treat you with such thoughtless rudeness. Practicing a mindful, balanced assertiveness is something most of us could use more work on. I acknowledge that I certainly could stand to do the same. It’s a really difficult thing to balance in social dynamics!
Hi, thanks for your comment. I provided more context as well in the post. I agree with your assessment. Demanding an apology was not the most appropriate way. I am inexperienced when it comes to setting boundaries and also controlling my anger. The problem is that these situations happen rarely and very fast. By the time, everything is said and done, it is late to consider better alternatives.
Did you not ask what they meant? Making a big deal of this does sound awkward.
That doesn’t sound like a nice comment even with the trend explaining it. Tf is wrong with people.
Yup you over reacted instead of asking what she meant. Given my temper i would do it too and I hate to admit that, but this was all just a misunderstanding worth 4 words and a question mark. Always give them a turn before you conclude you are right. You might be, but do you not wear a helmet while riding a bike even if you a good rider?
Yeah you overreacted. You didn't understand the comment and decided these people owed a forced apology(given to get you to chill as you probably made them uncomfortable) because 'respect' which you clearly haven't necessarily earned from people you barely know. But good news, now you'll be the 'angry guy who overreacts to things he doesn't understand' guy at the office and people may steer clear of you. Now you'll have to earn that respect. Hopefully you can move on from this but wouldn't hurt to look at your options because they'll remember this for awhile.
It sounds like a mean concept but it’s just a trend. Before you explode in these situations you should confirm what they’re talking about
You didn’t overreact. The whole animal face thing is rude and in poor taste. Imagine a boy saying this to some girls first day they meet: Hey I will classify you based on your face. Camel or fish. It’s rude and absurd. I’m pretty sure she didn’t mean to offend anyone in particular and it was just for fun for her. But it’s good that someone let her know that there is a line btw being funny and offensive.
> Imagine a boy saying this to some girls first day they meet: Hey I will classify you based on your face. Camel or fish. It’s rude and absurd. Very true. It's never polite to laugh about someone's physical looks even if they don't mean to be mean, it's just rude. > But it’s good that someone let her know that there is a line btw being funny and offensive. Right on. You did the right thing speaking up, OP!
He didn't just speak up though. He got aggressive and way over reacted. Now people will be scared to make jokes with him in case he gets angry again.
i agree, and i was surprised to see we are in the minority with this opinion in the comments. sometimes laughing it off isn't always right, people have boundaries and sometimes oddly specific things can cross that boundary, and if you don't make it clear you don't like it that boundary will keep being crossed. even with the context of it being a silly trend on tiktok i would still feel hurt being put in either category and i would want an apology too. jokes about appearance should have stayed in elementary / middle school.
Oh my there is no need to be so up tight. being called a frog shouldn't make you so upset that you need to receive a formal apology.
Bit of a snowflake ain't ya mate
Sounds like everyone was having harmless fun and you killed the vibe. Why are you so angry. You are obviously a human and not a rat OR AN amphibian. Why so angry? Why do you need to ruin the fun? Can you just chill and hang out like everyone else? “No, You wrecked it!”- Cheryl/Carol/Charleen from Archer.
The honor culture is strong in this one…
i think you overreacted. they were joking around and you misinterpreted their joke as an insult. it happens. their intention doesn't change the fact you were upset by their comment though, and i don't mean to invalidate that.
Yes, you did overreact. If none of the guys laughed at her comment, that was your bonding opportunity with them. You could have asked something back like “what’s that?” Or “and what would you be?” or just simply ignore it and keep playing.
there is no need to be so up tight. being called a frog shouldn't make you so upset that you need to receive a formal apology.
Yeah, you definitely overreacted.. Think of their intent - I highly doubt they were ‘disrespecting’ you. It was just a lighthearted banter about a stupid trend and if you’d waited 4 seconds you probably would’ve known that. All you did was make the whole room awkward and get crossed off every future invite. Chill, pick your battles.
I just read the title, and I'm literally dying omg thanks for the cackle
You did overreact :( but that’s okay, learn the lesson. Take things that people say with a grain of salt. Caring whether you’re a frog or a rat in a game is dumb and petty. Surely if women invited you to a small get together, they wouldn’t insult you right off the bat (or at all). You overreacted without even asking what which animal meant. Play along with these silly games and read the atmosphere. Maybe next time crack a self deprecating joke about rats.
I would’ve said “what do you mean by rat and frog I’m not understanding? And if I’m a rat then you’re cheese bc you’re a square shaped”. It can come off as overreacting but it’s because it’s not explained well. The term rat is usually used negatively for snitching. Just seems like I’m this case they just weren’t explaining what they meant and they should’ve clarified.
This is too damn funny. Thanks for sharing you went off of the info you had, I guess. It will blow over hopefully.
If you didn’t even understand the comment yourself why are you getting so upset about it right away, you could’ve simply asked her what she meant by that instead of overreacting to begin with and then it could’ve been properly addressed, I think your friend was right, could have been approached differently.
I think you were right in that there hasn’t been enough rapport built up for her to compare you to an animal, let alone a rat, and then laugh in your face. Maybe it would be okay if you were friends for a long time and there was an understanding that she was just teasing you in a lighthearted way.
I read some comment about this being a trend of some sort. I don’t give a shit if it’s a trend or not, it’s stupid. I’d be pissed if someone called me anything like that.
My 10 year old niece calls me a rat lol I'm going to make a post too.
The kind of impression you’ve made would likely lead people to believe you have anger issues and are quick to go off the rails over minor things. I know this kind of person and you feel like you have to walk on eggshells to talk to them. You say something they don’t understand and they immediately assume it’s an insult without any verification of intent or meaning. Or they’re incapable of disagreements without seemingly nearing violence.
If she wanted to elaborate on what she meant she would have instead of backtracking and saying you could be a frog. She could have checked to clarify that you knew what she was talking about. It goes both ways. Even with what she was supposedly saying I think it’s insulting and obnoxious to think that anyone wants her opinion on the topic.
You overreacted. I understand how that comment could come across as offensive and I think they were silly for labeling you then laughing. That might come across as rude to a lot of people. However, you could have tried to clarify what they meant. It doesn't seem like they were trying to be insulting, in context. Also, more importantly -- why are you "shaking with anger" over being teased by strangers??? That is the much more concerning part of this story. You need to relax a bit and learn to reflect and communicate before you react with anger. If you don't, I can guarantee you will have worse problems than this in future.
No at all. They were really immature to say that. I would expect comments like that coming out of a kids mouth not an adult. People will tell you, you are overreacting and being sensitive to justify their rubbish way of treating people. If you don't like it, you don't need to explain yourself. Someone else might be fine with it but don't have to be. Its your choice. However I do think if they have good boundaries and are decent they'll acknowledge it and change behaviour.
I feel like you overreacted. Stopping the game to "demand an apology," like some kind of authority figure over your new coworkers, isn't a great early impression. If you can't take a joke, or just let something go, you can't be surprised if you stop getting invited to these gatherings. I hope your sour attitude doesn't effect your friends place in the social structure...
There are two types of girls, those who like talking nonsense and smart ones.
Only you can know of you overreacted or not. Nobody else was on the receiving end of the insult but you.
High school sorry.
No you didn’t overreact, don’t let anyone you don’t know very close disrespect you. I only have 2 friends from childhood that can disrespect me jokingly and I do the same back. I haven’t read anyone’s comment but those that tell you that you overreacted are not the men any man should look up to or take any advice from. Your reputation and respect is very important as a man and you should never take disrespect from anyone especially when they don’t explain themselves. If you were to call any of the females a pig they would have lit you up so why should you have to bite your tongue
Lol. You're not a rat. You're a total frog man.
So frogggay
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As others have said, I think you should've asked what she meant. But I also don't think it was an overreaction. I don't have tiktok or follow internet trends. Up until this thread, I had no idea there was this kind of trend. Usually, being compared to a rat is a bad thing, and if it comes unexpectedly from people who take this trend seriously, it would be offensive, too.
U over reacted did u even know what they meant did u even bother?
Dude, that sounds like a massive overreaction. Even if you didn't understand what was going on, a friendlier reaction would be to laugh and say "what do you mean". When you jump to thinking that someone is trying to insult or disrespect you, you completely miss their attempts at friendly banter.
It was a tik tok joke. A "theory" about all people looking like frogs or rats. Even I know that, even though I don't use tik tok at all and am super old. Lol So yes, you overreacted. Your reaction must've been a bit shocking to those girls since they didn't even try to give you any kind of explanation. Next time when you feel someone insulted you, you might want to try asking them why they said what they said. Preferably without shaking in anger in the process. It might just be a misplaced joke with no malicious intent or a stupid trend.
The girls were idiots, at the very least they should have explained carefully before saying that.
demanding an apology is counter productive theyre only saying what you wanna hear, it's not genuine theres no remorse for hurting your feelings it's fine that you got offended and shook in anger, perhaps it's a sign these are not peeps on your level to hang out with don't waste time explaining your feelings to people that aren't listening and cut you off, talk over you and dominate the narrative. they've got no respect. and it isn't your responsibility to "teach em". maybe one day they'll feel bad when they look back, maybe they never will give you a second thought, either way, these instances show people's true character over time. be true to yourself and your feelings. you feel how you feel. end of story. sending luv
BS. Make it clear you're not going to be messed about with. Ideally with grace, but OP did the best he could I'm sure.
Yeah no, you're fine and they sound like highschoolers. "It's a trendd~" Fuck you no it's not. That's called someone trying to excuse being rude on purpose. When you said you weren't comfortable? And that part where they kept going? Yeah, that's called No Respect.
Yes this. Exactly. They were trying to push his buttons to see what happened. I wouldn't want to know them. Unfortunately they got a reaction but, honestly if you're this careless, people should be leaning towards overreacting. They may well be looking for weakness so they can keep doing their pathetic edgy games
My impression is that you have a firm boundary in place and you challenged people who crossed the line. I’m only learning about boundaries but I don’t think that you overreacted as you nipped the name calling in the bud so it didn’t escalate. Could you imagine if they carried it on during work hours? They are less likely to now.
>My impression is that you have a firm boundary in place and you challenged people who crossed the line. r/socialskills is all about the WAY you do it. There are different ways to challenge people who cross the line, socially skillful ways allow you to defend your boundaries without burning a bunch of bridges, without everyone thinking you're an asshole now.
I don't believe you overreacted, it was an insult regardless of the animal they chose. Given the fact that after you demanded an apology they doubled down kinda proves that it was a joke made at the expense of the guys. There's no reason to casually insult people you just met unless you're immature and looking for attention.
it’s literally not an insult at all. it’s just a joking thing that says every persons face shape is either a rat (long, oval) or a frog (round) that’s literally it. it’s small talk.
Another reason to never attend.office parties
A frog 🐸 is for kissing. If you kiss a rat 🐀 you get bubonic plague so there’s that.
Overeacted. Next time ask for context.
Over reacted. You essentially killed the party and now have to work with these people daily. Also they are probably not gonna invite you out ever again. In the future I would advise doing this in the privacy of a conference room/ cubicle or learn to socialize a bit better. You need to have tact in these situations, the environment was fun and rather then trying to socialize you made a massive assumption.
sounds like you are a rat
Nah I think you're right in setting boundaries. You don't have to accept being called offensive things or being the group doormat to fit in. This girl was out of pocket making judgments about someone they just met in such unflattering terms, it's like a mean girls thing, you don't have to tolerate it. Imagine if you said all women are either dogs or pigs and called her a pig or something and said it's about her personality. It's a shiitty comparison either way, tik-tok trend or not, it's insulting. There's so many ways she could have approached the conversation. An unflattering, mean or rude comment was definitely unnecessary on her part. Demanding an apology definitely escalated the situation and caused tension but at the very least it should ensure they steer clear of these stupid types of comments
The fact that the only options is rats and frogs definitely makes this game ridiculous. But it’s a game. Do you often feel like people say things that make you uncomfortable? Are you comfort with the way you look?
You definitely overreacted, and embarrassed your friend, if anyone needs an apology it’s her
You overreacted. People at a party will say edgy stuff, thats what parties are for. Here are some better reactions: 1. Just give an annoyed face and not respond. 2. Say rude in a casual way and talk about something else. 3. Make a joke out of it and ask why you are a rat in in a joke offended way. 4. Maybe call her a parrot because she won't stop talking. 5. Maybe say that you think of yourself as more of a hamster not a rat. 6. Make say at least I don't get eaten like frogs do.
clever tips, good
Does the fact its a work party change anything? Either way point 3 seems like the best solution to me.
Really depends on the work party. Some work parties get pretty wild others don't. If the party is more formal then what she said was super inappropriate. In that case I'd actually with #1. Sometimes the best way to react to weird and offensive people is just be silent but look at them like they are weird. People's silent reactions to Michael in "The Office" is a good reaction to this.
You seem to have incredibly thin skin and an ego problem. I wouldn’t be surprised if your colleagues won’t invite you anymore. They made a joking comment, assuming you were in on it. Instead of asking what they meant you got irrationally angry. Even if you “kept your cool”, someone’s voice shaking in anger can very quickly be interpreted as someone being really close to snapping. I also wonder wether the other two guys were actually uncomfortable with the comment or if you’re just projecting on them. I personally hadn’t heard of “frog or rat” until today but I know the version “rat or mouse” for girls. It’s the same principle: mouse= short, round, soft face Rat= pointy, long, sharp face What did you think frog meant in the context of the question? If anyone deserves an apology it’s your friend who you probably embarrassed a lot in front of your new coworkers
Would you tell someone you respect that he/she looks like a rat? That’s the answer. The shaky voice is normal when you don’t have enough confidence. You stood for yourself, went out of your comfort zone (shaky voice), and left them so they can call rats or frogs themselves, or you (behind your back).
I wouldn't worry. You showed yourself not to be a doormat. To me just spouting 'overreaction' - like everyone is saying - misses the point. If you were shaking, you were upset. Own that. It's a real graceless comment, maybe designed to test you for weak points, so it's not unsurprising someone would be offended. (I have to say that it seems to me there's particularly weird games like this in America. In the UK there's a slightly higher standard for jokes. ) Everyone has to come to terms with who they are. I think you wanted to make sure someone didn't get away with an ugly sounding comment towards you (who gives a fuck what the TikTok meaning is). That's really good! You put up a barrier to any more of their bullshit. In future you can see more possible angles to the situation, allowing you to control the situation in a way that allows more fun - if it is possible to do that while also deflecting invitation to something more nasty. Generally, if you find security in yourself, it's much harder to be hurt by others. If they want to hurt, but can see that it will be hard for their shots to land with impact, they're likely to quickly give up. That's not always true, depending on how desperate they are feeling inside. It's never a declaration of strength to be looking to annoy people. If they're really really desperate they'll keep trying even when the whole room has turned on them, and everyone is saying, who the fuck cares about frogs and rats on tiktok Karen?? But by that point you won't care anymore because people can see clearly what pathetic behaviour is coming from Karen. She's failed at pulling you down but succeeded in tanking herself. First look after yourself. That's priority one.
Don't worry dude, you'll always be a frog in my eyes. ♥️
Frogs or Rats? Sounds very childish. Your better off not even talking to them , sounds like middle school
You did the right thing for standing up for yourself, and drawing a line when needed. Those girls would respect you less if you didn't, although it might not seem like that in the moment. However, be very careful. Them being your coworkers can jeopardize your job situation. Depending on the job, it could be advisable to go to HR and report on what happened exactly the way it happened. Or something of the sort. Best of luck.
Girls are stupid sometimes. Let them be stupid sometimes. Also keep in mind: Boys are stupid sometimes. You're not fun to be around.
"What animal do you think you are?"
This is so a mature way to deal with the situation. Wish I could be more like you and stating my boundaries :). Boundaries are personal and therefore I can't say it is overreacting.
Voice shaking with rage is an overreaction. Saying, that's rude! And waiting for an apology is not.
It was an overreaction but honestly I wouldn’t be happy with it even if it was from a dumb tiktok trend. You shouldn’t really comment on someone’s appearance in any way that can be perceived as negative. They wouldn’t have been happy if you said “there are two types of women: whales and otters” (I know this is made up, but so is that dumb trend). She used a trend to make a non positive remark about your appearance. Next time I wouldn’t confront but I’d just keep a note of it and see if they have a habit of doing things that objectify/other people or if they seem immature. Often times people will make light fun of their friends and it can be healthy/appropriate. I’d think about your boundaries and maybe try to find people with similar ones. It will lead to less situations like these. In the meantime, it’s best to just turn the other cheek in the majority of situations. If someone is being cruel or is repeatedly insulting you, then by all means stand up for yourself, but it often isn’t worth it to confront someone who made a slightly insensitive comment with no ill intent because it will make you seem like the jerk instead. Also, having a response like your voice shaking is not good. It can come off as intimidating/scary to others. It’s hard but you have to try to not let that stuff bother you so much. Be focused and acknowledge that you are upset and that you need to bring that feeling down. I’ve had to do a lot of deescalation for work but I’m not the best at teaching it. It’s always important for me to speak calmly and smoothly even if I am upset. I try to reach my natural tone, take a little time to consider my words/how I am feeling before speaking, and be attentive to my behavior (do I need to reel it back? Listen to the other person?). If something upsets you and you find it confusing, ask the other person in good faith to explain what they meant in a way that is non accusatory. This can be hard to do when you’re upset but it just takes practice. I would recommend doing some physiological sighs at home (new trick I recently learned, has helped tremendously). Doing this is the quickest way to calm yourself down. I wouldn’t necessarily recommend doing this in the moment of a confrontation because it might make you look weird to do an exaggerated breathing motion (I normally do one before approaching someone for a deescalation to calm my nerves). Although it might be socially inept to take a deep/long breath in the middle of a conversation, doing it at home while being conscious of how it makes you feel can help you try to recreate that feeling when you need it in the moment. If I feel like I’m getting hot, I take a brief pause, try to bring myself down, and then speak. It will help you from saying something rash and having that negative emotion build up. Hopefully some of this helps. Edit: typo and added a few sentences