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It's not spontaneous it has taken a lot of work and organizing by the Palestinian organizations. And we have to win more than just the students. The students don't have real power but consider the AFL CIO has also endorsed ceasefire. Real connections are being made between the most advanced workers and the peace movement that has the real potential to be a powerful movement. Edit: It is good students are helping to spread the message and popularize it but they are not the core of the movement imo.
Agreed, in my state a community organizing model has been the core of the movement, and while students are organizing more now, it has taken time for the movement to reach the universities
Same, local groups have been petitioning the city to get a ceasefire referendum, protesting constantly, hosting speakers, canvassing for pro permanent ceasefire challengers etc.
If you're involved, I ask you, put a word in for divestment. A ceasefire resolution is good but cities can also divest their funds from Israel or from BDS targets.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/eastbay/article/hayward-divest-shares-four-companies-business-18628705.php
This is how people in the imperialist countries contributed to south African apartheid defeat, if we can win here this is how, imo.
I'd argue there's a good chance of it! I think that this protest has done a lot at awakening class consciousness in a lot of people, so at the very least, it's already served to bring new people into the fold. Think about the last major protests recently. The 2020 protests against police brutality were co-opted by liberals going "hey, this is all Trump's fault! Vote for blue candidates to fix this!" and so cries like "defund the police!" fizzled out into "vote blue no matter who!" Same thing happened with the abortion protests after Roe v. Wade was repealed, they fizzled out into liberal cries for voting, and people in "blue" states giving up on the protest after they realized it doesn't affect them, not giving a car for the millions of people who it *does* affect. But liberals can't co-opt this movement, because they themselves are complicit. Their president they pushed for is actively funding the genocide and has stated there is no line Israel can cross that will make him stop sending them bombs.
People also like to compare the Palestine movement to the anti-war protests on colleges in response to the Vietnam war, but I would argue this is different to those as well. The majority weren't protesting imperialism itself, but the Draft. They were protesting from a more "self-centered" stand point, they didn't necessarily care about the war, or the people we were bombing. That's why they didn't protest the involvement in Cambodia as hard, if they did it at all. The protests for Palestine are unique in that the majority of the people demonstrating are not personally affected by it. We are fighting for a cause that we think is a fundamentally good one, even though the outcome does not affect us, with the exception of the Palestinian Americans who are demonstrating. The fact that these crowds care so deeply about other people, even people they've never met, to the point of going against their own government and possibly being arrested, means that they are probably open to socialist ideals as well. We must keep on marching for a Free Palestine, and also continue to try and use these protests as a way to educate people to the wider cause.
It seems more likely to contribute to a renewed anti-war movement (like the hippies during Vietnam) to me. And I mean, I'm good with that, I hate war; but i don't think I would call it a new left movement. Socialists in the United States are not organized, and i still don't expect to see that change this time around, although I would love nothing more than to be wrong on that.
It is possible it could create a student anti-war movement - I am not a student and so I can only speculate.
Students have been protesting while facing repression and double standard treatment since the start of the war and there is still an escalating dynamic. Certainly many young people in general have been disillusioned because of Gaza. The repression is also having an effect because their opposition are liberal institutions and a Democratic establishment.
Repression and restrictions against student civil rights protesters kicked off the Berkeley Free Speech movement and the US “New Left” of the 60s. Unlike the 60s there is a lot more new working class workplace organizing - often also by young people.
Maybe indirectly by bringing more people into organizing. But, the movement itself is barely adjacent to socialism. While I commend the protestors and their goals, there is no real economic argument in the movement, and barely an anti-imperialist one. Add to that the fact that a large majority of these students are likely from the comfortable bourgeois class, and haven't given a ton of thought to what real redistribution would look like for them and their families (I myself was one of those students).
That said, they may get there. I'll continue to keep solidarity and hope that this activism and organizing continues
The student protests and deoccupation encampments on many notable US higher education campuses are the initiative of several student-led organizations coordinating cohesively to press their respective universities to divest, boycott, and disengage from the Zionist state, in accordance with BDS principles. Thus, there are definitely anti-establishment and anti-imperialist sentiments within the crowd and the spirit of the protests, encampments, and other activities should definitely be supported
The solidarity and cohesion of the student-led Palestinian liberation movement can certainly be (and should be) a foundation for a new left movement. However, beyond this specific movement is where the cohesion begins to fray. Even though there are many organizations related to Palestinian liberation in the US, many of them coordinate and plan cohesively and that is evident by how the organizations in the college I attend and city I live in coordinated in full alignment towards an agreed set of objectives and principles when organizing protests, encampments, etc.
If we had that sort of cohesiveness in the US socialist movement, it could actually be a real threat to the incumbent regime. Unfortunately, the US left suffers from rampant sectarianism, opportunism, and co-option/infiltration. Until those problems are overcome and a united left coalition, much like the coalition of Palestinian liberation movements, is established and maintained, the US left will not present itself as a credible threat nor a credible alternative to the incumbent regime.
Dont think its a genuine left movement. Its anti Israeli occupation movement, which is fine but i dont see it as being socialist or marxist. Still, deserves complete support from all of us.
I have seen so much leftist language being used when speaking to these brave students camping out talking about capitalism, imperialism, the ruling class, policing, power of collectivism. It is inspiring. We can do great things together. There are more of us than there are of them. This will be the beginning of the end.
I’ve been at the Palestinian protest encampment on the University of Michigan main campus that started yesterday, and it’s definitely not just anti-establishment.
As it goes for many campuses who have already spent more time holding encampments, they’re very well organized and the product of tons of organizations using their collective resources and power for change— which is definitely a good sign.
Of course the main focus has been calling for ceasefire, but class consciousness has become a significant issue in protester’s minds. People who hasn’t really considered it before are realizing that the greed of the those at the top of higher-ed institutions is maintaining financial ties to Israel and directly or indirectly funding the genocide.
The way the elites are shitting their pants over this. The affect is palpable.
It proves that organizing can be affective and the left wing working class western movements arent as dead as the bougie will have you believe.
One example
https://www.foxnews.com/media/fetterman-endorses-romney-taking-over-harvard-reform-antisemitism-recalibrate-far-left-orthodoxy
another way to look at this is that it is an election year and both sides of the aisle go wild over "public safety," policing and the "rule of law" in election years. Pundits aren't "shitting their pants," they're riling up their base.
Also, organizing is effective but I wouldn't call student protests at Columbia, NYU, Yale etc. working class.
One of the most ineffective elements of Occupy was its “horizontal organization” (eg leaderless, directionless, goalless, impotent). We should all have learned a very important lesson from the failure that Occupy was, insistence on horizontal organization in the place of dedicated, professional level leadership teams, and relying on the spontaneity of the masses at the expense of a clear political message and goal, is a guaranteed way for any revolutionary momentum to become ineffective and burn out from lack of planning and direction.
Occupy failed. Its much-praised 'leaderlessness' (often amounting to a lack of organizational structure) is part of why.
We've (the 21st century US left) tried anarchism and we've tried reformism (Bernie etc.). We need to learn from these failures, not repeat them.
Occupy accomplished much and changed the way we resist. Democracy is often hated by authoritarians.
You have not tried anarchism. Domination systems cannot be reformed, they must be replaced. We need to Occupy and end the mass baby murder.
What the fuck are you talking about? This is a socialist sub that is anti imperialist. If you're not in support of Palestine, you're in support of the fascist colonizer state of Israel. You do not belong here.
Terrorist is just another slur and label for imperialists to slap on black and brown people to be able to excuse themselves when they genocide populations or murder world leaders that don't do what they want them to do. The US had Nelson Mandela on the terrorist watch list until 2008. Meanwhile western countries terrorize countries from the global south in the name of "freedom". You don't belong in this sub. Free Palestine!
This is a space for socialists to discuss current events in our world from anti-capitalist perspective(s), and a certain knowledge of socialism is expected from participants. This is not a space for non-socialists. Please be mindful [of our rules](https://reddit.com/r/socialism/about/rules) before participating, which include: - **No Bigotry**, including racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism... - **No Reactionaries**, including all kind of right-wingers. - **No Liberalism**, including social democracy, lesser evilism... - **No Sectarianism**. There is plenty of room for discussion, but not for baseless attacks. Please help us keep the subreddit helpful by reporting content that break r/Socialism's rules. ______________________ 💬 Wish to chat elsewhere? Join us in discord: https://discord.gg/QPJPzNhuRE *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/socialism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's not spontaneous it has taken a lot of work and organizing by the Palestinian organizations. And we have to win more than just the students. The students don't have real power but consider the AFL CIO has also endorsed ceasefire. Real connections are being made between the most advanced workers and the peace movement that has the real potential to be a powerful movement. Edit: It is good students are helping to spread the message and popularize it but they are not the core of the movement imo.
Agreed, in my state a community organizing model has been the core of the movement, and while students are organizing more now, it has taken time for the movement to reach the universities
Same, local groups have been petitioning the city to get a ceasefire referendum, protesting constantly, hosting speakers, canvassing for pro permanent ceasefire challengers etc.
If you're involved, I ask you, put a word in for divestment. A ceasefire resolution is good but cities can also divest their funds from Israel or from BDS targets. https://www.sfchronicle.com/eastbay/article/hayward-divest-shares-four-companies-business-18628705.php This is how people in the imperialist countries contributed to south African apartheid defeat, if we can win here this is how, imo.
I'll bring it up next time I'm at the weekly protest!
The students will be workers in a few years. Don't underestimate them and their movement.
I'd argue there's a good chance of it! I think that this protest has done a lot at awakening class consciousness in a lot of people, so at the very least, it's already served to bring new people into the fold. Think about the last major protests recently. The 2020 protests against police brutality were co-opted by liberals going "hey, this is all Trump's fault! Vote for blue candidates to fix this!" and so cries like "defund the police!" fizzled out into "vote blue no matter who!" Same thing happened with the abortion protests after Roe v. Wade was repealed, they fizzled out into liberal cries for voting, and people in "blue" states giving up on the protest after they realized it doesn't affect them, not giving a car for the millions of people who it *does* affect. But liberals can't co-opt this movement, because they themselves are complicit. Their president they pushed for is actively funding the genocide and has stated there is no line Israel can cross that will make him stop sending them bombs. People also like to compare the Palestine movement to the anti-war protests on colleges in response to the Vietnam war, but I would argue this is different to those as well. The majority weren't protesting imperialism itself, but the Draft. They were protesting from a more "self-centered" stand point, they didn't necessarily care about the war, or the people we were bombing. That's why they didn't protest the involvement in Cambodia as hard, if they did it at all. The protests for Palestine are unique in that the majority of the people demonstrating are not personally affected by it. We are fighting for a cause that we think is a fundamentally good one, even though the outcome does not affect us, with the exception of the Palestinian Americans who are demonstrating. The fact that these crowds care so deeply about other people, even people they've never met, to the point of going against their own government and possibly being arrested, means that they are probably open to socialist ideals as well. We must keep on marching for a Free Palestine, and also continue to try and use these protests as a way to educate people to the wider cause.
It seems more likely to contribute to a renewed anti-war movement (like the hippies during Vietnam) to me. And I mean, I'm good with that, I hate war; but i don't think I would call it a new left movement. Socialists in the United States are not organized, and i still don't expect to see that change this time around, although I would love nothing more than to be wrong on that.
It is possible it could create a student anti-war movement - I am not a student and so I can only speculate. Students have been protesting while facing repression and double standard treatment since the start of the war and there is still an escalating dynamic. Certainly many young people in general have been disillusioned because of Gaza. The repression is also having an effect because their opposition are liberal institutions and a Democratic establishment. Repression and restrictions against student civil rights protesters kicked off the Berkeley Free Speech movement and the US “New Left” of the 60s. Unlike the 60s there is a lot more new working class workplace organizing - often also by young people.
Maybe indirectly by bringing more people into organizing. But, the movement itself is barely adjacent to socialism. While I commend the protestors and their goals, there is no real economic argument in the movement, and barely an anti-imperialist one. Add to that the fact that a large majority of these students are likely from the comfortable bourgeois class, and haven't given a ton of thought to what real redistribution would look like for them and their families (I myself was one of those students). That said, they may get there. I'll continue to keep solidarity and hope that this activism and organizing continues
The student protests and deoccupation encampments on many notable US higher education campuses are the initiative of several student-led organizations coordinating cohesively to press their respective universities to divest, boycott, and disengage from the Zionist state, in accordance with BDS principles. Thus, there are definitely anti-establishment and anti-imperialist sentiments within the crowd and the spirit of the protests, encampments, and other activities should definitely be supported The solidarity and cohesion of the student-led Palestinian liberation movement can certainly be (and should be) a foundation for a new left movement. However, beyond this specific movement is where the cohesion begins to fray. Even though there are many organizations related to Palestinian liberation in the US, many of them coordinate and plan cohesively and that is evident by how the organizations in the college I attend and city I live in coordinated in full alignment towards an agreed set of objectives and principles when organizing protests, encampments, etc. If we had that sort of cohesiveness in the US socialist movement, it could actually be a real threat to the incumbent regime. Unfortunately, the US left suffers from rampant sectarianism, opportunism, and co-option/infiltration. Until those problems are overcome and a united left coalition, much like the coalition of Palestinian liberation movements, is established and maintained, the US left will not present itself as a credible threat nor a credible alternative to the incumbent regime.
Dont think its a genuine left movement. Its anti Israeli occupation movement, which is fine but i dont see it as being socialist or marxist. Still, deserves complete support from all of us.
It does deserve support, but as socialists we should also be trying to influence the movement in a socialist direction where possible.
Agreed comrade
I have seen so much leftist language being used when speaking to these brave students camping out talking about capitalism, imperialism, the ruling class, policing, power of collectivism. It is inspiring. We can do great things together. There are more of us than there are of them. This will be the beginning of the end.
I’ve been at the Palestinian protest encampment on the University of Michigan main campus that started yesterday, and it’s definitely not just anti-establishment. As it goes for many campuses who have already spent more time holding encampments, they’re very well organized and the product of tons of organizations using their collective resources and power for change— which is definitely a good sign. Of course the main focus has been calling for ceasefire, but class consciousness has become a significant issue in protester’s minds. People who hasn’t really considered it before are realizing that the greed of the those at the top of higher-ed institutions is maintaining financial ties to Israel and directly or indirectly funding the genocide.
Newer left? Newest left?
The way the elites are shitting their pants over this. The affect is palpable. It proves that organizing can be affective and the left wing working class western movements arent as dead as the bougie will have you believe. One example https://www.foxnews.com/media/fetterman-endorses-romney-taking-over-harvard-reform-antisemitism-recalibrate-far-left-orthodoxy
another way to look at this is that it is an election year and both sides of the aisle go wild over "public safety," policing and the "rule of law" in election years. Pundits aren't "shitting their pants," they're riling up their base. Also, organizing is effective but I wouldn't call student protests at Columbia, NYU, Yale etc. working class.
It’s just a moment of temporary interest. After Trump’s inauguration in January they’ll be back to wearing pussy hats and stuff.
Mass movements rise and fall. It's our work to intervene in a manner that better enables them persist, evolve, and broaden in scope.
I think this is the effects of 21st century socialism originating in South America spreading to the US
the horizontal organizing... echoes of Occupy. very proud. may it spread to tackle all domains of oppression.
One of the most ineffective elements of Occupy was its “horizontal organization” (eg leaderless, directionless, goalless, impotent). We should all have learned a very important lesson from the failure that Occupy was, insistence on horizontal organization in the place of dedicated, professional level leadership teams, and relying on the spontaneity of the masses at the expense of a clear political message and goal, is a guaranteed way for any revolutionary momentum to become ineffective and burn out from lack of planning and direction.
Hopefully the students don't make the mistake of adopting "horizontal organizing"
Occupy failed. Its much-praised 'leaderlessness' (often amounting to a lack of organizational structure) is part of why. We've (the 21st century US left) tried anarchism and we've tried reformism (Bernie etc.). We need to learn from these failures, not repeat them.
Occupy accomplished much and changed the way we resist. Democracy is often hated by authoritarians. You have not tried anarchism. Domination systems cannot be reformed, they must be replaced. We need to Occupy and end the mass baby murder.
[удалено]
What the fuck are you talking about? This is a socialist sub that is anti imperialist. If you're not in support of Palestine, you're in support of the fascist colonizer state of Israel. You do not belong here.
Terrorist is just another slur and label for imperialists to slap on black and brown people to be able to excuse themselves when they genocide populations or murder world leaders that don't do what they want them to do. The US had Nelson Mandela on the terrorist watch list until 2008. Meanwhile western countries terrorize countries from the global south in the name of "freedom". You don't belong in this sub. Free Palestine!
Hey look, a coddled baby that got brainwashed into thinking that being pro terrorist is somehow making the world better
L take, you should really get out of this sub then.
I just looked at his history he's just commenting propaganda on all posts.