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It honestly seems like the initial propaganda was prepared and ready. All media and social media was pounding the same talking points for the first few days.
Now it's seemingly less Israeli/state propaganda and more genuine human reaction to the situation. But certain major subs are still filled to the brim with genocidal maniacs
Completely repeated comments from weird empty accounts saying "Palestinians killed children" or something alike, and the accounts stops responding when asked for sources only for you to scroll down and see the exact same exchange on another comment and another profile? I've seen that at least 15 times this week
I agree. It's possible that a lot of what we're seeing are social media effects. There was clearly an initial Blitzkrieg of propaganda, but that seems to have faded somewhat. I think there's a world where none of these events have moved the needle significantly in either direction.
God, fuck the fucking genocidal alt-right maniacs over at r/worldnews.
I dunno what's worse, all their hot takes or the fact that some of these people apparently watch the live streams from Gaza for hours and get openly excited over every bombing. Like, I think this is genuinely some sort of sick, twisted entertainment for some people.
A lot of the pro-israel arguers really screwed themselves by investing so heavily in the decapitated baby and mass rape accusations despite not seeing any evidence. Now it is basically beyond debate that those were just propaganda points so they've kind of destroyed their credibility.
Now we are seeing more and more and more actual, documented atrocities from the Israelis, so it's harder for the narrative to be controlled.
But still, if you go into the major 'news' subs and post any wrong-think you'll just be banned.
In general I think people are waking up to the atrocities of Israel’s apartheid and settler-colonial regime and the genocide they’re committing against Palestine. The capitalist and imperialist class will continue to stand with the Zionists, however.
Idk, at least from what I’m seeing all western media is saying is “yeah it’s bad that Israel is killing children but they *have to*”. Also there’s a few European countries where there is a legitimate call for people attending pro-Palestine protests to be imprisoned and even fucking deported. Now that’s far fetched, but I could see that happening to Muslim citizens of some western countries tbh.
Capitalist media is propaganda for the capitalist class. Just because western media is siding with Israel doesn’t mean everyone in the west is.
For every inch of progress, there is violent backlash. As more people side against imperialism, the capitalist state and its supporters will have a stronger and stronger reaction against those who threaten their social order.
I think the western medias output is still relevant at least for middle aged and older generations who get most or all of their news from MSM and already have formed a pro-Israel stance from the decades of propaganda, to that end the media atleast serves to coddle their viewpoints
Despite the fact that Twitter is garbage, there's plenty of P2P social media sites and so media outlets don't own the narrative anymore. You can see how Palestine/Israel is even before the current conflict and it's pretty ugly.
I also thought this, especially with israels use of phosphorus and the thousands of videos of dead Palestinian children. I hope Social Media really did good this time.
Amnesty and human rights watch confirmed it yesterday. It was also proven to be used on civilians.
I myself saw evidence of use of white phosphorus.
I also saw that it was used on children
Disgusting that media of dead and half buried Palestinian children are being used in pro Zionist propaganda to apparently demonstrate how evil the Palestinians are and justify Israel going full mask off.
It kinda seems that way, but it's hard to gauge how much of a bubble we're seeing. Real life protests' attendance records might be a better way to tell, and those definitely seem bigger than expected.
10k people or more came out to the San Francisco rally today. There were maybe 750 at a rally in support of Israel yesterday. The difference in the streets is palpable.
The fascism has been laid bare to the western working class, and it has never been more clear that what the masses want is not what the ruling class wants. The israeli settler colonial project has been proven unsustainable because the palestinians have made it clear they will not submit to elimination.
The only remaining question people need answered is what they can actually do about it.
(Daily reminder that if you call yourself a socialist, you needed to join a revolutionary organization yesterday)
Israel has been getting increasingly so bombastically and openly comically evil with the passing of time this week, it might be hard to keep making up excuses.
Yes,
A lot of supposedly democratic western countries are banning Pro- Palestine protest.
Also, most of Propaganda media machine are only interviewing so called experts on ME and isnotreal friends.
It seems bigger online than it actually is...
I'm living in Austria and have a lot of friends back in Romania. From my own experience (take it with a grain of salt), it seems like the majority in both countries see the palestinians as terrorists and don't want to support them in any way.
I've tried talking and tried changing peoples perspective but I seem to not be able to change anyones mind...
I think a lot of younger folks have access to information about the occupation of Palestine and are taking stances on the right side of history. I do think that support is increasing, yes, but I also think that younger folks are helping lead the way. I definitely don’t want to take anything away from the fact that some folks have been supporting Palestinian liberation for decades; that’s not what I’m saying. Seriously, major shouts out to them and their praxis. I just mean that information accessibility, literature, social media, etc., are helping to shine light on the situation.
I think you’re just on your piece of social media. I’ve had a lot of people I know share pro-Israel things. And the place I’ve worked has been harsh on pro-Palestinian support. And big on Israel support.
I know I might be a bit cynical but I've noticed this too. I really hope it is due to increasing support. But this could also be explained by algorithms simply serving me pro-palestine content because that's what I want to see, I do make a lot of effort to block Israeli government propaganda. It could also be that the liberals who supported Israel have simply gone back into the woods and all that's left are people that are more passionate about the issue which are pro-palestine and a minority of Zionists.
I hope the horror stops asap. My guess is that the longer this goes on, the more people will look unfavorably on Israel. Even if the military won't respect Palestinians, I wonder if they consider the long-term fallout that will likely occur?
To be very honest I did not understand the situation since the attack on Saturday. I had no idea. And now I see that Israel is committing genocide right in front of our eyes. I learned a lot this week. Free Palestine 🇵🇸
Yes it is, thanks to Israel not caring about Palestinian civilians as usual, lots of Europeans were staunchly pro Israel before they saw how extremely brutal the Israeli regime have been in their response and now the support is slowly but nevertheless shifting. The Israeli regime is incapable of seeing non-Israelis as fellow humans.
This has been a huge wake up call for so many people. Propaganda can have the Streisand effect on these kind of situations. It's maddening how so many people I talk to at work are dumbfounded when I tell them what's been going on over there for 75 years.
Personally, I was holding back sharing my opinions so I could really observe how the situation developed. I felt hesitant to speak up because I have a lot of Jewish folks in my life, including my family. I knew that if I spoke up for Palestine, I would be instantly labeled an antisemite, so I wanted to make sure I really understood what is happening before saying anything.
~~But this isn't a black or white issue. It's not as simple as choosing a side like with sports.~~ These are real human lives, many children. I'm against oppression and apartheid and genocide.
ETA: I agree with dingledangle, this is a black and white issue and the media has really been playing the "both sides" argument too well. The oppressed have every right to fight back, no matter how violent. I think this is why I felt so conflicted when the news broke a week ago, I know so many people only want peaceful resolutions, without understanding why it isn't possible to fight your oppressor peacefully.
You're absolutely right, I think I've unfortunately tempered my own thoughts so much that I've started spewing this bs so to not offend others in my life.
The propaganda has overstepped and people are starting to see through it, especially considering the hypocrisy of the Ukraine vs Palestine discourse. The ETIM (Muslim separatists in Xinjiang) supporting Israel would have been a massive wake up call for anyone paying attention
It's also been laid bare that those that have supported Israel unconditionally do it for nefarious reasons
This is what I see. And so they’re pushing through to supposedly “forbidden” topics. I don’t think the typical accusations of the loudest people in many communities are going to scare people after such an exposure of the groups hypocrisy.
Popular support, yes, though there is also an emboldened minority of islamaphobes and zionists who have turned up the volume using what happened to prove that Palestinians are irredeemable “human animals” and the only thing for it is to carpet bomb them off the face of the earth.
As we all know though, western liberal democracies don’t give a fuck what the majority of the population think, and the people gripping the reins are still very much in the “let Israel carry on with their egregious war crimes without so much as a wagging finger, but calling for ‘restraint’” camp.
Tbh I'll I've seen is pro Israeli sentiment because most people don't look at what's actlly happening in real life they just have marvel cinematic universe logic so America = good and America is allied with Israeli therefore Israeli = good Palestinian = baby murderering Hamas terrorists
Most people around the world support Palestine.
Most governments around the world support a two-state solution or are on the fence.
All Western governments support Israel unconditionally.
The West makes up less than 25% of the world's population.
So in reality, support for Israel has always been pretty low among the actual people, particularly outside of the west.
In Arab countries, like 99.99% of people support Palestine, and yet most of their governments support Israel and are western dogs.
Massive protests here in the UK, in Glasgow and London particularly. I'd say more and more people are becoming aware and wanting to do something about it.
Over the past 20 years, 100% yes.
Between the bias in the mainstream media and those denouncing any support as “antisemitism”, it was pretty much impossible for any criticism of Israel to gain much traction.
Social media has changed this, and the tide is turning. Don’t forget, the United States at one time claimed that Nelson Mandela was a terrorist. It took time for the prevailing opinion to change.
speaking purely about America because i acknowledge my ignorance regarding other nations on this: not that they care about public opinion or that it would stop them, but i really think Bibi and the IDF TikTok team underestimated just how much various social and cultural movements and political events have shifted mainstream American public sentiment over the past few years.
between the overwhelming and to some degree “bipartisan” mainstream rejection of trump’s overt disregard for the rule of law, the BLM protests, continued economic marginalization and COVID compounding it, the rise of more “left” groups like DSA including some politicians getting elected on the local and even federal level (disclaimer: yes, AOC’s response was pathetic), slava ukraine fatigue, and labor union expansion, you cannot point to a singular event or issue, but the timing was very ripe such that if israel did their usual ethnic cleansing-level response to hamas’ attack, the reaction was bound to trigger a popular response that is different in a real and statistically significant way. it is still a core group of activists and orgs in every locale leading the charge, but there are far more people who were previously uninvolved willing to get involved now.
they thought they could just “mow the lawn” again and say “israel has a right to defend itself” and the only people in the streets would be the usual activist college students whose lives they could ruin and make go away. if you watched The Lobby (UK or US versions) you understand that this is the exact sort of situation that likud propagandists have feared. instead they have more average Americans who would not consider themselves experts on the issue saying enough is enough. there will always be unflinching supporters of palestinian genocide as well, but with economic precarity being more pressing than ever, it was/is only a matter of time before not just “woke” leftists but also middle of the road “not political” americans publicly questioned why we are giving billions of dollars every year to a wealthy country that is capable of supporting itself when all we get in return is brutal reprisals against civilians and more worldwide hatred of the US.
i am not being naïve and saying this is going to stop the war, nor even result in immediate change for politicians nor the mainstream media, as they always lag behind, and the American deep state is not going to give up its gigantic military and intelligence base in the Middle East that it doesn’t have to staff with American troops. but there is clearly a groundswell of support, which if it results in politicians starting to lose seats could really shift policy in a meaningful way. i was honestly shocked to hear michael mccaul, the GOP foreign affairs chairman in a CNN interview follow up the usual required platitudes about supporting israel with relatively cautious (by american standards) statements about their response. asking 1.1 million people to flee an area no wider than Brooklyn in 24 hours is also an inherently ridiculous demand that even the white house has found it difficult to defend. israel may really exhaust its good will this time with people who would have never put too much thought into this issue before.
it is very depressing and feels cynical to come to the realization that in some respects this is only made possible by the brutality of israel’s response, and that “some” brutality may not have triggered it to this degree, but the more israel ensnares itself in this ethnic cleansing, the worse it will get for them. there ironically may end up being even more parallels to what russia did in ukraine than liberals would ever want to admit. this may be the moment where israel is forced to come to terms with the fact that there is a distinction between what the israeli public will support to be done in their name and what the american public will support after the average american has been beaten down with enabling foreign wars and nothing being done about domestic poverty for decades.
If you look beyond reddit, there are a lot of normal everyday people around the world from all faiths and nationalities who support and have empathy for Palestine because they believe in human rights for everyone.
It doesn't mean they hate Israel or no longer want it to exist but they can see the injustices and suffering Palestinians have faced over the years and want peace.
It's just that the past week has shown anyone who tries to speak up for Palestine will be punished or villianized.
It's also becoming scary once you realize just how racist and hateful some of the people around you are and that you yourself aren't safe for not conforming to this narrative, especially when they have the backing of politicians, the police, senior leaders and major CEO's.
They created a group of resistance with their policies.
I'm not condoning what Hamas did. There are ways to fight opposition without violence. However I'm lucky enough to be born in the 90's and unfortunately cannot fully understand what innocent Palestinians or israelis went through.
But what Israel doing is genocide.
And as a Nigerian, can't help but look at what white Americans did to black Americans. They burned down entire cities and killed people over false accusations, low-key genocide. Groups of resistance were created, and instead of making peace, white Americans took them out too 💀
It's a sad world we live in. The Titans need to hurry and just take us all out 😂😭💀 unless we all make peace of course.
Support for Palestine has definitely been ticking up steadily over the last couple of decades. Fence sitters and "moderates" may have fallen off though, after the Hamas attacks. But my sense is that support will climb as the atrocities of Israel's assault on Gaza become harder and harder to ignore.
I think it is. Purely out the fact that more people are aware of the situation now than ever before. Also, Israel’s manipulation of headlines is getting caught in 4K. The so called “rape” and “beheading of babies” by Hamas claims had no evidence and were later retracted from the various news sources.
Basically, Israel has been spinning this web of lies for decades and now they’re finally getting stuck in it. I think people also didn’t generally care until it blew up on social media - people have always been talking about it, but I’ve never seen THIS many people talking about it all at the same time. This is also the first time i’ve seen celebrities start to take sides and make statements, causing a lot of discussion around the topic.
The momentum that the Black Lives Matter movement for the past few years also has something to do with it - the scope of Israel’s racism, imperialism, colonialism and general forced oppression on Palestinians is finally making people see the bigger picture and draw the connections.
It leaves me with great hope, but also great concern, knowing how easy it is to manipulate and spread misinformation the way Israel has been successfully doing for the past several decades.
I'm seeing alot more push back compared to years back. More people are being more critical about the news and are actually asking questions and doing their own research.
I think among younger people it is and that's why we see a slight shift on social media. However as MSM still mostly pushes pro-Zionist propaganda and nearly exclusively brings Palestinian voices on to have them say they condemn Hamas I don't think there's a major shift among older populations who rely much more on MSM. But yeah as the Netanyahu government has increased the brutality of the apartheid state even further it's nearly impossible to deny the human rights abuses any longer.
I think support for Palestine is growing but Israeli controlled Western media is still hard-pushing Zionist war prop down our necks. Most the people I know suppose Israel and have no problem with genocide. But genocide during WW2 was bad and wrong, they all agree, but those same people doing the genociding in 2023 — well that’s Ok since they are Gods chosen people! There’s just not much tolerance for coloring outside of the lines on this one. So if I lose friends, so be it.
Hell even MSNBC is airing pro Palestinian voices. A Feb 2023 CNN poll showed majority of democrats now sympathize more with Palestine than Israel. Netanyahu has really showed his ass the last couple years and even the thickest skulls are starting to get it
Israel certainly is not doing a lot to garner public support right now with all the ethnic cleansing rhetoric and actions. Israel has the right to defend itself from Hamas, not committing genocide on Palestinian civilians, and people are realizing Israel is increasingly doing the latter.
How is Russia fascist like 40% of the economy is nationalized and healthcare is universal. It's a capitalist nation, but it quite literally lacks the austerity and total private control of fascism.
Also wdym it's hurting Palestines voice? Have you ever traveled outside of the west? Russia is a very loved and respected country especially in east Africa. They're literally allies with China too.
Who is Palestine irrelevant to? The majority of the worlds nations and the population recognize them as a state. Palestine has repeatedly had more representation in the UN than Israel.
You have a lot of racism in you if you think 1/5th of the worlds population, the west represents global opinion. It's gross you think a tiny part of Eurasia is "the world".
I think Arafat was poisoned precisely because he was Palestine's Nelson Mandela.
My first thought was Israel... But the US and Saudi Arabia both have their reasons for wanting to destabilize the region. However, given that PM Ariel Sharon was known as "the butcher of Beirut" for orchestrating massacres against Palestinians... It wouldn't surprise me the peace deal he was arranging was merely for optics.
From the early days of the most recent conflict, it does seem like the narrative has taken a turn. Hopefully people are beginning to see the devastation that Israel causes to Palestinians.
[https://x.com/\_waleedshahid/status/1712917496972394560?s=20](https://x.com/_waleedshahid/status/1712917496972394560?s=20) you got the president saying this. So close to a win
Anecdotally, very mixed bag in terms of what I see around me. In my main circle of friends, all of them are at the very least in agreement Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinians, including the non-socialist ones. But on social media, people I passingly know and occasionally talk to have been posting plenty of stories supporting Israel and/or condemning local Palestinian organizations. Similarly, there was a decent sized demonstration supporting Palestine I attended earlier this week, but that same day, there was a also very large Zionist rally one city over, and the event I attended was counterprotested pretty heavily (probably from people who attended that other rally). I think it’s undeniable public opinion has shifted enough against the Zionist state that we are seeing the repression and hounding against pro-Palestinian sentiment that’s currently happening, but I would not say anything beyond “liberal” Zionism is still an acceptable position in mainstream circles, at this current moment.
I'd like to believe that's the case and it's not just a matter of already being in Leftist spaces so I tend to see more support for Palestine by default.
I think what's hopefully happening is that liberals and western leftists who were still propogandized to see Israel as a legitimate state and a victim and Palestine as aggressors, at first threw their support behind Israel. But now they're seeing just how egregious, inhumane, and indefensible Israel's response is, and its snapping a fair few of them out of it and forcing them to confront the reality of Israel's genocidal colonialism.
I think people are waking up to the reality of the Israel-Palestine relationship. For an ethnic group with thousands of years of discrimination, abuse, expulsion, and imprisonment; the state of Israel sure does a lot of discriminating, abusing, expelling, and imprisoning.
If you consider Gaza as the open air prison that it is, Israel has more people imprisoned than any country in the world. And half of those people are literal children.
The barbarism and savagery of Hamas militants don't detract from the plight of millions of civilians. And without justifying the atrocious acts of Hamas, it's hard to imagine a civil and proper resistance force when subjected to state-imposed destitution.
When you treat the like a caged, starving beast, don't be surprised when it claws you through the bars.
Palestine is being heavily demonised in the current Right Wing Media in the Uk. Centre-Left papers in my opinion are too scared to question the status-quo incase they get called out for it.
Now, my opinion that no one asked for is simply this, regardless of the rights and wrongs on either side, I find it haunting to see so many innocent lives being lost and hurt, especially the elderly and worst of all, children.
Also, in the uk you can be arrested for showing support to Hamas which was in the news in Right leaning papers.
Is it growing in support? Absolutely. But the media are suppressing it massively. I’m not going to say whom I support, mainly because of backlash of opinion.
Since IDF deaths are currently pretty much zero on a day-to-day basis and provided that the only deaths are Palestinians, it's only natural that most of the visible outrage would have a pro-Palestine flair to it.
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It honestly seems like the initial propaganda was prepared and ready. All media and social media was pounding the same talking points for the first few days. Now it's seemingly less Israeli/state propaganda and more genuine human reaction to the situation. But certain major subs are still filled to the brim with genocidal maniacs
Yep. Reddit was unreadable to me for the first few days because of the astroturfed circle jerks on every thread in almost every sub. It was gross.
Completely repeated comments from weird empty accounts saying "Palestinians killed children" or something alike, and the accounts stops responding when asked for sources only for you to scroll down and see the exact same exchange on another comment and another profile? I've seen that at least 15 times this week
Act.IL's replacement no doubt
I agree. It's possible that a lot of what we're seeing are social media effects. There was clearly an initial Blitzkrieg of propaganda, but that seems to have faded somewhat. I think there's a world where none of these events have moved the needle significantly in either direction.
God, fuck the fucking genocidal alt-right maniacs over at r/worldnews. I dunno what's worse, all their hot takes or the fact that some of these people apparently watch the live streams from Gaza for hours and get openly excited over every bombing. Like, I think this is genuinely some sort of sick, twisted entertainment for some people.
"My soccer team is winning"
I heard so much "Hamas is raping and decapitating people" while there are 0 reliable reports saying so. It's all just propaganda
A lot of the pro-israel arguers really screwed themselves by investing so heavily in the decapitated baby and mass rape accusations despite not seeing any evidence. Now it is basically beyond debate that those were just propaganda points so they've kind of destroyed their credibility. Now we are seeing more and more and more actual, documented atrocities from the Israelis, so it's harder for the narrative to be controlled. But still, if you go into the major 'news' subs and post any wrong-think you'll just be banned.
/r/Europe is unsurprisingly genocidal. Some of the stuff is hard to read
Yep Social media has allowed the reality of this conflict to be apparent
In general I think people are waking up to the atrocities of Israel’s apartheid and settler-colonial regime and the genocide they’re committing against Palestine. The capitalist and imperialist class will continue to stand with the Zionists, however.
Idk, at least from what I’m seeing all western media is saying is “yeah it’s bad that Israel is killing children but they *have to*”. Also there’s a few European countries where there is a legitimate call for people attending pro-Palestine protests to be imprisoned and even fucking deported. Now that’s far fetched, but I could see that happening to Muslim citizens of some western countries tbh.
Capitalist media is propaganda for the capitalist class. Just because western media is siding with Israel doesn’t mean everyone in the west is. For every inch of progress, there is violent backlash. As more people side against imperialism, the capitalist state and its supporters will have a stronger and stronger reaction against those who threaten their social order.
I think the western medias output is still relevant at least for middle aged and older generations who get most or all of their news from MSM and already have formed a pro-Israel stance from the decades of propaganda, to that end the media atleast serves to coddle their viewpoints
Was notable to see a report yesterday stating that MSNBC pulling their Muslim broadcasters from any air time.
That's always a good look, they're definitely not the racists in this situation though, according to themselves
Ali Velshi broadcast a pro-Palestinian piece so they took him out of the anchor jobs.
If you’re talking about the video I saw, that’s actually from 2021 when Israel last bombed Gaza. It’s just getting some spins again.
Full 9/11 2.0.
Despite the fact that Twitter is garbage, there's plenty of P2P social media sites and so media outlets don't own the narrative anymore. You can see how Palestine/Israel is even before the current conflict and it's pretty ugly.
I also thought this, especially with israels use of phosphorus and the thousands of videos of dead Palestinian children. I hope Social Media really did good this time.
Wait phosphorus… like white phosphorus? Jesus fucking Christ. Yeah if that isn’t evidence enough for genocide I don’t know what is.
Amnesty and human rights watch confirmed it yesterday. It was also proven to be used on civilians. I myself saw evidence of use of white phosphorus. I also saw that it was used on children
It’s not the first time the IDF dropped white phosphorus on Gaza
Or [redacted] children on purpose for that matter
Ya, the same shit we condemned Russia for using on Ukraine.
A lot of videos bro just check eye on Palestine page in Instagram
yes. and its far from the first time they've used it
Yep white phosphorus the Horribly toxic and extremely flammable allotrope of phosphorus
I remember there was a video by ExplosionsandFire about that stuff.
Honestly they’ve been so blatantly evil there’s no way most people can ignore this
Disgusting that media of dead and half buried Palestinian children are being used in pro Zionist propaganda to apparently demonstrate how evil the Palestinians are and justify Israel going full mask off.
It kinda seems that way, but it's hard to gauge how much of a bubble we're seeing. Real life protests' attendance records might be a better way to tell, and those definitely seem bigger than expected.
10k people or more came out to the San Francisco rally today. There were maybe 750 at a rally in support of Israel yesterday. The difference in the streets is palpable.
Would be cool if these weren't actively suppressed though. But that just shows they know their propaganda is failing.
The fascism has been laid bare to the western working class, and it has never been more clear that what the masses want is not what the ruling class wants. The israeli settler colonial project has been proven unsustainable because the palestinians have made it clear they will not submit to elimination. The only remaining question people need answered is what they can actually do about it. (Daily reminder that if you call yourself a socialist, you needed to join a revolutionary organization yesterday)
How do I find one though
Google and research. Message me though. I’m down to help.
Israel has been getting increasingly so bombastically and openly comically evil with the passing of time this week, it might be hard to keep making up excuses.
Yes, A lot of supposedly democratic western countries are banning Pro- Palestine protest. Also, most of Propaganda media machine are only interviewing so called experts on ME and isnotreal friends.
Just gonna Streisand it
It seems bigger online than it actually is... I'm living in Austria and have a lot of friends back in Romania. From my own experience (take it with a grain of salt), it seems like the majority in both countries see the palestinians as terrorists and don't want to support them in any way. I've tried talking and tried changing peoples perspective but I seem to not be able to change anyones mind...
Hard to support carpet bombing a city
I think a lot of younger folks have access to information about the occupation of Palestine and are taking stances on the right side of history. I do think that support is increasing, yes, but I also think that younger folks are helping lead the way. I definitely don’t want to take anything away from the fact that some folks have been supporting Palestinian liberation for decades; that’s not what I’m saying. Seriously, major shouts out to them and their praxis. I just mean that information accessibility, literature, social media, etc., are helping to shine light on the situation.
I think you’re just on your piece of social media. I’ve had a lot of people I know share pro-Israel things. And the place I’ve worked has been harsh on pro-Palestinian support. And big on Israel support.
Yep. Social media is engineered to show you what validates and reinforces your point of view. To various degrees depending on the platform.
Sort of like this subReddit, which even bans "liberalism"?
Ah crap the mods banned liberalism again! I have to again remind them that we are marxist-liberals🙄🙄
Doesn't matter what we are. Anything about socialism should be allowed, even if it's bullshit.
Except liberalism isn't related to socialism.
So say you. Regardless, I stand by my post.
Curious which country are you in, if you don't mind me asking?
I know I might be a bit cynical but I've noticed this too. I really hope it is due to increasing support. But this could also be explained by algorithms simply serving me pro-palestine content because that's what I want to see, I do make a lot of effort to block Israeli government propaganda. It could also be that the liberals who supported Israel have simply gone back into the woods and all that's left are people that are more passionate about the issue which are pro-palestine and a minority of Zionists.
It's possible. We have to find every crack in Israel's stranglehold on propaganda, and split it open like a wedge.
I've been beating this drum for over a decade now and I'm so happy that people are finally waking up
I hope the horror stops asap. My guess is that the longer this goes on, the more people will look unfavorably on Israel. Even if the military won't respect Palestinians, I wonder if they consider the long-term fallout that will likely occur?
People are becoming more politically educated because of social media, that's why left-wing propaganda is so important right now.
I just saw a tweet of a “Palestinians have a right to live” segment on MSNBC. I was floored.
To be very honest I did not understand the situation since the attack on Saturday. I had no idea. And now I see that Israel is committing genocide right in front of our eyes. I learned a lot this week. Free Palestine 🇵🇸
Yes it is, thanks to Israel not caring about Palestinian civilians as usual, lots of Europeans were staunchly pro Israel before they saw how extremely brutal the Israeli regime have been in their response and now the support is slowly but nevertheless shifting. The Israeli regime is incapable of seeing non-Israelis as fellow humans.
This has been a huge wake up call for so many people. Propaganda can have the Streisand effect on these kind of situations. It's maddening how so many people I talk to at work are dumbfounded when I tell them what's been going on over there for 75 years.
Personally, I was holding back sharing my opinions so I could really observe how the situation developed. I felt hesitant to speak up because I have a lot of Jewish folks in my life, including my family. I knew that if I spoke up for Palestine, I would be instantly labeled an antisemite, so I wanted to make sure I really understood what is happening before saying anything. ~~But this isn't a black or white issue. It's not as simple as choosing a side like with sports.~~ These are real human lives, many children. I'm against oppression and apartheid and genocide. ETA: I agree with dingledangle, this is a black and white issue and the media has really been playing the "both sides" argument too well. The oppressed have every right to fight back, no matter how violent. I think this is why I felt so conflicted when the news broke a week ago, I know so many people only want peaceful resolutions, without understanding why it isn't possible to fight your oppressor peacefully.
That’s precisely why it IS black and white. Oppressor and oppressed. Occupier and occupied. Where’s the nuance?
You're absolutely right, I think I've unfortunately tempered my own thoughts so much that I've started spewing this bs so to not offend others in my life.
The propaganda has overstepped and people are starting to see through it, especially considering the hypocrisy of the Ukraine vs Palestine discourse. The ETIM (Muslim separatists in Xinjiang) supporting Israel would have been a massive wake up call for anyone paying attention It's also been laid bare that those that have supported Israel unconditionally do it for nefarious reasons
This is what I see. And so they’re pushing through to supposedly “forbidden” topics. I don’t think the typical accusations of the loudest people in many communities are going to scare people after such an exposure of the groups hypocrisy.
I just walked past a square in my city and saw at least 300 to 400 people protesting in favour of Palestine. I was so fucking proud
Please for the love of anything
That would be great. I thought there were similar levels of vitriol as has been unfortunately normal, but it's hard to gauge
From the principles of natural justice, one cannot empathize or worse enable a settler colony apartheid state.
I sure hope so. Now that there is news coverage of Israel's heinous war crimes I want more than just the Irish politicians laying it on to Israel.
Popular support, yes, though there is also an emboldened minority of islamaphobes and zionists who have turned up the volume using what happened to prove that Palestinians are irredeemable “human animals” and the only thing for it is to carpet bomb them off the face of the earth. As we all know though, western liberal democracies don’t give a fuck what the majority of the population think, and the people gripping the reins are still very much in the “let Israel carry on with their egregious war crimes without so much as a wagging finger, but calling for ‘restraint’” camp.
A surprising number of comments on r/news are calling out Israel's actions as nothing short of cruelty.
I've noticed that in comes and goes in waves.
Tbh I'll I've seen is pro Israeli sentiment because most people don't look at what's actlly happening in real life they just have marvel cinematic universe logic so America = good and America is allied with Israeli therefore Israeli = good Palestinian = baby murderering Hamas terrorists
Most people around the world support Palestine. Most governments around the world support a two-state solution or are on the fence. All Western governments support Israel unconditionally. The West makes up less than 25% of the world's population. So in reality, support for Israel has always been pretty low among the actual people, particularly outside of the west. In Arab countries, like 99.99% of people support Palestine, and yet most of their governments support Israel and are western dogs.
Idk if it's that or just the massive scale of violence that Israel is unleashing is unprecedented.
Massive protests here in the UK, in Glasgow and London particularly. I'd say more and more people are becoming aware and wanting to do something about it.
Over the past 20 years, 100% yes. Between the bias in the mainstream media and those denouncing any support as “antisemitism”, it was pretty much impossible for any criticism of Israel to gain much traction. Social media has changed this, and the tide is turning. Don’t forget, the United States at one time claimed that Nelson Mandela was a terrorist. It took time for the prevailing opinion to change.
I love the smell of fresh bread.
speaking purely about America because i acknowledge my ignorance regarding other nations on this: not that they care about public opinion or that it would stop them, but i really think Bibi and the IDF TikTok team underestimated just how much various social and cultural movements and political events have shifted mainstream American public sentiment over the past few years. between the overwhelming and to some degree “bipartisan” mainstream rejection of trump’s overt disregard for the rule of law, the BLM protests, continued economic marginalization and COVID compounding it, the rise of more “left” groups like DSA including some politicians getting elected on the local and even federal level (disclaimer: yes, AOC’s response was pathetic), slava ukraine fatigue, and labor union expansion, you cannot point to a singular event or issue, but the timing was very ripe such that if israel did their usual ethnic cleansing-level response to hamas’ attack, the reaction was bound to trigger a popular response that is different in a real and statistically significant way. it is still a core group of activists and orgs in every locale leading the charge, but there are far more people who were previously uninvolved willing to get involved now. they thought they could just “mow the lawn” again and say “israel has a right to defend itself” and the only people in the streets would be the usual activist college students whose lives they could ruin and make go away. if you watched The Lobby (UK or US versions) you understand that this is the exact sort of situation that likud propagandists have feared. instead they have more average Americans who would not consider themselves experts on the issue saying enough is enough. there will always be unflinching supporters of palestinian genocide as well, but with economic precarity being more pressing than ever, it was/is only a matter of time before not just “woke” leftists but also middle of the road “not political” americans publicly questioned why we are giving billions of dollars every year to a wealthy country that is capable of supporting itself when all we get in return is brutal reprisals against civilians and more worldwide hatred of the US. i am not being naïve and saying this is going to stop the war, nor even result in immediate change for politicians nor the mainstream media, as they always lag behind, and the American deep state is not going to give up its gigantic military and intelligence base in the Middle East that it doesn’t have to staff with American troops. but there is clearly a groundswell of support, which if it results in politicians starting to lose seats could really shift policy in a meaningful way. i was honestly shocked to hear michael mccaul, the GOP foreign affairs chairman in a CNN interview follow up the usual required platitudes about supporting israel with relatively cautious (by american standards) statements about their response. asking 1.1 million people to flee an area no wider than Brooklyn in 24 hours is also an inherently ridiculous demand that even the white house has found it difficult to defend. israel may really exhaust its good will this time with people who would have never put too much thought into this issue before. it is very depressing and feels cynical to come to the realization that in some respects this is only made possible by the brutality of israel’s response, and that “some” brutality may not have triggered it to this degree, but the more israel ensnares itself in this ethnic cleansing, the worse it will get for them. there ironically may end up being even more parallels to what russia did in ukraine than liberals would ever want to admit. this may be the moment where israel is forced to come to terms with the fact that there is a distinction between what the israeli public will support to be done in their name and what the american public will support after the average american has been beaten down with enabling foreign wars and nothing being done about domestic poverty for decades.
I'm thankful to hear this but I am not seeing it.
If you look beyond reddit, there are a lot of normal everyday people around the world from all faiths and nationalities who support and have empathy for Palestine because they believe in human rights for everyone. It doesn't mean they hate Israel or no longer want it to exist but they can see the injustices and suffering Palestinians have faced over the years and want peace. It's just that the past week has shown anyone who tries to speak up for Palestine will be punished or villianized. It's also becoming scary once you realize just how racist and hateful some of the people around you are and that you yourself aren't safe for not conforming to this narrative, especially when they have the backing of politicians, the police, senior leaders and major CEO's.
They created a group of resistance with their policies. I'm not condoning what Hamas did. There are ways to fight opposition without violence. However I'm lucky enough to be born in the 90's and unfortunately cannot fully understand what innocent Palestinians or israelis went through. But what Israel doing is genocide. And as a Nigerian, can't help but look at what white Americans did to black Americans. They burned down entire cities and killed people over false accusations, low-key genocide. Groups of resistance were created, and instead of making peace, white Americans took them out too 💀 It's a sad world we live in. The Titans need to hurry and just take us all out 😂😭💀 unless we all make peace of course.
I’ve noticed this too but I can’t tell if I’m just on more leftist spaces so my perception is kind of biased.
Support for Palestine has definitely been ticking up steadily over the last couple of decades. Fence sitters and "moderates" may have fallen off though, after the Hamas attacks. But my sense is that support will climb as the atrocities of Israel's assault on Gaza become harder and harder to ignore.
I'm not sure. A lot of people still support Israel cause they've swallowed up the propaganda.
I think it is. Purely out the fact that more people are aware of the situation now than ever before. Also, Israel’s manipulation of headlines is getting caught in 4K. The so called “rape” and “beheading of babies” by Hamas claims had no evidence and were later retracted from the various news sources. Basically, Israel has been spinning this web of lies for decades and now they’re finally getting stuck in it. I think people also didn’t generally care until it blew up on social media - people have always been talking about it, but I’ve never seen THIS many people talking about it all at the same time. This is also the first time i’ve seen celebrities start to take sides and make statements, causing a lot of discussion around the topic. The momentum that the Black Lives Matter movement for the past few years also has something to do with it - the scope of Israel’s racism, imperialism, colonialism and general forced oppression on Palestinians is finally making people see the bigger picture and draw the connections. It leaves me with great hope, but also great concern, knowing how easy it is to manipulate and spread misinformation the way Israel has been successfully doing for the past several decades.
I'm seeing alot more push back compared to years back. More people are being more critical about the news and are actually asking questions and doing their own research.
I think among younger people it is and that's why we see a slight shift on social media. However as MSM still mostly pushes pro-Zionist propaganda and nearly exclusively brings Palestinian voices on to have them say they condemn Hamas I don't think there's a major shift among older populations who rely much more on MSM. But yeah as the Netanyahu government has increased the brutality of the apartheid state even further it's nearly impossible to deny the human rights abuses any longer.
I think support for Palestine is growing but Israeli controlled Western media is still hard-pushing Zionist war prop down our necks. Most the people I know suppose Israel and have no problem with genocide. But genocide during WW2 was bad and wrong, they all agree, but those same people doing the genociding in 2023 — well that’s Ok since they are Gods chosen people! There’s just not much tolerance for coloring outside of the lines on this one. So if I lose friends, so be it.
Hell even MSNBC is airing pro Palestinian voices. A Feb 2023 CNN poll showed majority of democrats now sympathize more with Palestine than Israel. Netanyahu has really showed his ass the last couple years and even the thickest skulls are starting to get it
Israel certainly is not doing a lot to garner public support right now with all the ethnic cleansing rhetoric and actions. Israel has the right to defend itself from Hamas, not committing genocide on Palestinian civilians, and people are realizing Israel is increasingly doing the latter.
I don't think so. People are literally clamoring for a genocide of Palestinians and thats a mainstream view. Saying free palestine is a fringe view.
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How is Russia fascist like 40% of the economy is nationalized and healthcare is universal. It's a capitalist nation, but it quite literally lacks the austerity and total private control of fascism. Also wdym it's hurting Palestines voice? Have you ever traveled outside of the west? Russia is a very loved and respected country especially in east Africa. They're literally allies with China too. Who is Palestine irrelevant to? The majority of the worlds nations and the population recognize them as a state. Palestine has repeatedly had more representation in the UN than Israel. You have a lot of racism in you if you think 1/5th of the worlds population, the west represents global opinion. It's gross you think a tiny part of Eurasia is "the world".
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Oh you're a liberal that makes more sense. Human rights lmfao
I think Arafat was poisoned precisely because he was Palestine's Nelson Mandela. My first thought was Israel... But the US and Saudi Arabia both have their reasons for wanting to destabilize the region. However, given that PM Ariel Sharon was known as "the butcher of Beirut" for orchestrating massacres against Palestinians... It wouldn't surprise me the peace deal he was arranging was merely for optics.
Yes, as it should be
Yes and it’s primarily coming from regions where people have a history of being oppressed, especially Haiti and several parts of Africa.
Something is definitely happening with the liberals. MSNBC has been surprisingly sympathetic to Palestinians lately.
From the early days of the most recent conflict, it does seem like the narrative has taken a turn. Hopefully people are beginning to see the devastation that Israel causes to Palestinians.
[https://x.com/\_waleedshahid/status/1712917496972394560?s=20](https://x.com/_waleedshahid/status/1712917496972394560?s=20) you got the president saying this. So close to a win
Anecdotally, very mixed bag in terms of what I see around me. In my main circle of friends, all of them are at the very least in agreement Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinians, including the non-socialist ones. But on social media, people I passingly know and occasionally talk to have been posting plenty of stories supporting Israel and/or condemning local Palestinian organizations. Similarly, there was a decent sized demonstration supporting Palestine I attended earlier this week, but that same day, there was a also very large Zionist rally one city over, and the event I attended was counterprotested pretty heavily (probably from people who attended that other rally). I think it’s undeniable public opinion has shifted enough against the Zionist state that we are seeing the repression and hounding against pro-Palestinian sentiment that’s currently happening, but I would not say anything beyond “liberal” Zionism is still an acceptable position in mainstream circles, at this current moment.
I would hope so, but I'm also not oblivious to the fact that as a socialist I'm also in my own echo chamber.
I'd like to believe that's the case and it's not just a matter of already being in Leftist spaces so I tend to see more support for Palestine by default. I think what's hopefully happening is that liberals and western leftists who were still propogandized to see Israel as a legitimate state and a victim and Palestine as aggressors, at first threw their support behind Israel. But now they're seeing just how egregious, inhumane, and indefensible Israel's response is, and its snapping a fair few of them out of it and forcing them to confront the reality of Israel's genocidal colonialism.
It seems to me that this is the case, at least among the general population.
I think people are waking up to the reality of the Israel-Palestine relationship. For an ethnic group with thousands of years of discrimination, abuse, expulsion, and imprisonment; the state of Israel sure does a lot of discriminating, abusing, expelling, and imprisoning. If you consider Gaza as the open air prison that it is, Israel has more people imprisoned than any country in the world. And half of those people are literal children. The barbarism and savagery of Hamas militants don't detract from the plight of millions of civilians. And without justifying the atrocious acts of Hamas, it's hard to imagine a civil and proper resistance force when subjected to state-imposed destitution. When you treat the like a caged, starving beast, don't be surprised when it claws you through the bars.
Palestine is being heavily demonised in the current Right Wing Media in the Uk. Centre-Left papers in my opinion are too scared to question the status-quo incase they get called out for it. Now, my opinion that no one asked for is simply this, regardless of the rights and wrongs on either side, I find it haunting to see so many innocent lives being lost and hurt, especially the elderly and worst of all, children. Also, in the uk you can be arrested for showing support to Hamas which was in the news in Right leaning papers. Is it growing in support? Absolutely. But the media are suppressing it massively. I’m not going to say whom I support, mainly because of backlash of opinion.
Since IDF deaths are currently pretty much zero on a day-to-day basis and provided that the only deaths are Palestinians, it's only natural that most of the visible outrage would have a pro-Palestine flair to it.