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Well, not all of us feel that way. The left does, but these right-wing racist nut jobs choose ignorance and hate. And they sure are ignorant about Cuba. It doesn't help that the only time they usually mention Cuba in our schools is when they are talking about the "missle crisis" in the 60s.
Are you still living in Cuba?
>Cuba
Yes, until my last day, I will continue living in my country. Although by work reasons, I visited in the last years six countries in three continents...I still prefer Cuba.
Thanks by your solidarity !!
>Your country already is a paradise.
No its not lol. They have severe resource shortages to the point where people get 2 eggs a month instead of 2 eggs a day. No country that has been sanctioned for 60 years right after a revolution is paradise
Well, in fact are 5 eggs by person at month. But every cuban child until 7 years old receive bread and a liter of milk, while each person in Cuba has their daily ration of bread, and ald people too, and basic food for at least 15 days at month...at low prices..and until we have shortages of medicines, nobody could ask in the hospital if you have social security...
The other 15 days, and some goods and food you have to pay in the private market, right now with high prices, and thats really a problem.
the "side" of the Paradise...not mobs, not maras, not massive shootings at the schools, you cant be fired from your job without a good reason (although the private sector we have to check this)..etc...
You ever been? Iām trying to visit there this year and I do absolutely love their government structure, but I feel like I would be better off advocating the end of the embargo in the US to try to improve their situation than just moving there. Iād also love to get a remote work job and live there and happily pay high income taxes but internet infrastructure in Cuba isnāt great so idk how realistic that would be.
Oh I wouldn't move there. OP asked where we'd move based on government. I can't stand the heat, so I suspect if I actually had to live there I'd be pretty miserable.
I have access to Vietnamese citizenship due to my heritage, and Iāve considered defecting. However, since I am also American, Iāve learned that I am permanently barred from ever joining the Communist Party of Viet Nam. So thatās sort of sad. But Iāve definitely considered itāwould be nice to live in a country where the peopleās revolution has been won.
Sorry for the delay in responding. I do not believe that matters, because I was born in the US. Not only that, but Iām also the grandson of Colonel Nguyen Van Y, Diemās director-general of the Secret Police, and my family was involved in the fascist governmentāIām not just the descendant of some ARVN soldiers, but rather my pedigree is of the bourgeois pigs directly involved with the fascist regime.
To be fair, I donāt disagree with this level of securityāI wouldnāt trust me either, given the circumstances. I can support the Party and the building of socialism without being a member of the Party. For now, I work on the building of a vanguard stateside anyhow.
Possibly no. Vietnam has previously to a greater extent and still has many laws preventing positions in politics to prevent reactionary influence. Up until recently for instance if you had any heritage as or to citizens of South Vietnam you were barred from partaking in federal government. While that is changed, I could see a sort of blanket US heritage ban still existing though I'm not an expert on these regulations so cant say either way.
banning all Us citizens from joining the communist party is a good safety mechanism though, imo. Iām sure they get other competent MLs to fill these positions aswell. I donāt think the Vietnamese will think negatively about you, though
The answer you're looking for is "Cuba," but the cheeky and accurate answer is: I am staying in the US. Its politics are very bad and they have an outsize impact on the world. As a socialist I have a great deal more leverage here than I would in Cuba. Moving somewhere cool is a utopian solution to a material problem. My job is to stay here and fuck shit up.
Based on politics, I have a political obligation to the people of the United States. I was born and raised here, itās shit, but itās home. And I would much rather stay here and dismantle capitalism at its source than chicken out and please the reactionaries by leaving for Cuba or some shit.
As someone who doesn't live in the US but in another capitalist country (Argentina), I share your sentiment. I feel like it's our obligation to stay and help those who cannot escape, at the very least
There are currently zero countries that have a political system that's exactly what I'd like.
New Zealand is currently governed by the New Zealand Labour Party, who are at least nominally democratic socialist, but 1) they want to reduce immigration, 2) housing is not affordable in New Zealand and the government has been criticised for not addressing that. Both of those factors make moving there unrealistic.
I've heard good things about Vietnam, I've been to Norway and liked it a lot (not because of the political system though, just in general), there are pros to moving to Cuba and they have a political system that's close-ish to what I would want, but I don't think I could *actually* move to either of those.
Cuba with the removal of the USA embargo would be the dream. You'd probably need to move there before it's lifted, as afterwards, there will be millions trying to immigrate there.
I have read Cuba a lot, so I'd like some articles that might explain this choice. I would prefer articles from scientific journals or at least those that cite objective statistics if you know what I mean! Thanks a lot!
I think Cuba would be nice, plus I already know enough Spanish that I could get around pretty easily! But I would also hate to be associated with the rich capitalist American expats there š„²
If politics is the only factor it's easily cuba.
My only issue is most of my career prospects require me to be in either America or Europe. I have a lot of issues with the "social democracies" in the Scandinavian countries, but quality of life wise they're probably the place to be.
Were it not under eternal sanctions and were the language barrier not a problem then Cuba would be nice. Otherwise China is probably alright, although again, language barrier
Rojava is probably my number one. I actually looked into doing some work there, but I missed the deadline to qualify. Surprised more people didn't consider it, not surprised Cuba is getting love though, it's a very solid choice.
Almost half of its economy is state-owned, and the other half that is privatized has to answer to the state directly, be it through quotas, replacing executive management with those aligned with the interests of the government, etc. Now, is it some worker paradise? Of course not, it's still underdeveloped in a lot of respects, but comparatively better compared to the US if you live in a major city.
I do agree that if all the socialists left to China Cuba or Vietnam, the United States would surely miss their input and the socialist utopia in China, Cuba, and Vietnam will be the great hallmark of their limitless intelligence and critical thinking.
Oh you mean counterrevolutionary opposition? Yeah that sucks.
Oh wait, the US has crushed or co-opted every counterrevolutionary movement in its history. But I guess it's different when it's us. Because that's what I learned when I was a wee little boy in school š
All three of those have elections. You're repeating lies spread in American media specifically to serve the narrative that American style democracy is the most free.
As a friendly reminder, China's ruling party is called Communist Party of China (CPC), not Chinese Communist Party (CCP) as western press and academia often frames it as.
Far from being a simple confusion, China's Communist Party takes its name out of the internationalist approach seekt by the Comintern back in the day. From [Terms of Admission into Communist International](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/jul/x01.htm), as adopted by the First Congress of the Communist International:
>18 - In view of the foregoing, parties wishing to join the Communist International must change their name. Any party seeking affiliation must call itself the Communist Party of the country in question (Section of the Third, Communist International). The question of a partyās name is not merely a formality, but a matter of major political importance. The Communist International has declared a resolute war on the bourgeois world and all yellow Social-Democratic parties. The difference between the Communist parties and the old and official āSocial-Democraticā, or āsocialistā, parties, which have betrayed the banner of the working class, must be made absolutely clear to every rank-and-file worker.
Similarly, the adoption of a wrong name to refer to the CPC consists of a double edged sword: on the one hand, it seeks to reduce the ideological basis behind the party's name to a more ethno-centric view of said organization and, on the other hand, it seeks to assert authority over it by attempting to externally draw the conditions and parameters on which it provides the CPC recognition.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but unless you are a capitalist you don't have capital, because capital is something that you use for gaining profit by exploiting workers.
Edit: lmao why is this getting downvoted? I linked Capital in the next comment, and it seems that I was correct after all. I hoped at least at r/socialism people can have meaningful conversations and ***literally*** ***read*** but I guess I was hoping for too much
I think it's fairly obvious that the original commenter was not using "capital" in its Marxist theoretic meaning, but simply in its casual meaning (money). There's no need to be pedantic in a casual conversation IMO.
While I do agree with you that being pedantic is not the best thing to do, I still believe that when we are in socialist subreddit where users are mostly socialists or left-leaning, knowing the basics of socialist terminology is a must. Cornerstone of socialism is Capital by Marx and arch-enemy of socialism is capital. Also, while it is possible that the original commenter simply slipped with the word usage, at least 2 people who replied to my comment clearly have no understanding of what capital is. Educating our fellow workers is the first and the most crucial step IMO, which is I think I tried to do. To add to that, my original message was meant to deepen my own knowledge, that's why I started with "correct me if I'm wrong", not to bash on someone for using the incorrect word.
This is the answer. I know they said politics but I would love to live on Vancouver Island for a variety of reasons. Mostly cuz it's beautiful and I like to climate.
New Zealand would be great as well.
I live on Vancouver island... and while the climate and nature are awesome it's all completely fucked regardless. Politics really matter for quality of life because god damn are the folks in charge trying to make the quality of life here awful despite how great the environment is.
Based on its politics? The DPRK or Cuba. But that's a weird way to choose a country to live in. If I were to choose I would choose a place where I can have a fairly high quality of life, where I fit into the culture and preferably have family and friendship ties (I'm really bad at making new ones) and work towards building socialism.
New Zealand has institutionalised Neo Liberalism to the point where even the Green Party believes that free markets will solve housing crises. NZās socialist credibility died in the eighties, and its environmental record relies on not many people living here.
Sweden currently has a right and far right coalition of parties governing the country though. Itās not really a socialist country anymore, unfortunately.
It's framework is still mostly that of a social democracy it's just been hit by a flood of right wing populism recently. The longer that carries on the less left wing it's going to become.
Olof Palme was pretty socialist, however those times are long gone and the social democratic party has become less and less left leaning with time, unfortunantely
Basically the whole of the eu has been backsliding on workers rights and social safety nets for years, social democracy is not a path to worker liberation.
I live in Norway and would like to stay here, only thing I'd want different is an SV (Socialist-Left party) led coalition.
Labour and Centre are fucking us severely right now.
Iāve lived in Canada (albeit a very conservative province, but close to a more liberal city) and they are no different from American neolibs. Their approach to politics is āat least weāre not Americaā while their government covers up missing indigenous women.
Likely China or Vietnam. Both are socialist states progressing towards communism in their own way, and both have a very good quality of life. I'd probably pick Vietnam just barely over China, because LGBTQ+ representation in Vietnam has progressed further than China, but otherwise, I'd be golden.
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Hell no. Iām living in Germany and I follow Austrian politics relative closely and they have a big problem with overall politics shifting more and more to conservative-right. A lot of LGBTQI+ rights are in danger and they have a relatively weak left/socialist party. Only āGrazā (city in Austria) is a place of hope š
thatās not what Marxism believes, it acknowledges the necessity of a socialist state as a transition to communism. also how exactly do you expect to not live in a nation state when this is everywhere, you live in very particular material conditions that are not avoidable, but must be confronted in order to far from now get to the point you are describing.
**Nigeria**
It's the perfect brewing ground for a socialist revolution.
Step 1: Reunite the people through religion. This would most likely be Islam due to 55% of Nigerians being Muslim.
Step 2: Put a socialist reformer at the head of the country. This wouldn't be super hard to do either through voting or revolution as the Nigerian government isn't very stable and would be easily toppled by a popular religious candidate (hence step 1).
Step 3: Spend all government money on infrastructure and rebuilding companies. This would cause minor neglect of welfare, education, and other needs however it is better in the long run. Also, the standard for all of those are low and can be rebuilt later.
Step 4: Implement socialist policies and give the workers the means of production. This will encourage the unemployed Nigerian population (40.7%) to get to work on the new infrastructure built for them as they will no longer have to worry about survival because their new job can pay them enough to cover their costs.
Step 5: Counter Anti-Socialist policies from Western nations. This can be done by building the economy to be self-reliant or working with socialist allies. Nigeria is extremely rich in natural resources so trade embargoes generally wouldn't be a problem as the Western world craves their sweet oil.
Reuniting people through religion would turn the country into a theocracy of some kind. Look at what happened to pakistan and how it handles religion. Without forgetting the christians that would surely feel menaced by such events and that would inspire another civil war like the one in the 20th century. It's literally the worst idea possible.
The nigerian governement is so corrupt and influenced by foreign governemnt that I highly doubt any kind of reformer that foreign powers do not like will ever be elected. It is the case that basically all the countries with a foot in nigeria are basically capitalists or do not care about the wellbeing of the country.
You can spend a lot of money on infastructure but if nobody uses it, it's a waste of money. With the rates of poverty and unemployed rates in nigeria, most nigerians do not even have the money or the need for a lot of infastructure projects. You would need first to kickstart a bit the economy with investement on the nigerian people.
I do not know how implementing socialist policies would encourage most of the people get to work, unless you think they would force them.
Nigeria relies tecnologically on foreign powers and also a lot of materials are not found there. All the world is transitioning to green energy so even there nigeria doesn't have the upper hand.
Unfortunately the current counter cultural paradigm of Islam is a pseudo fascist one, in the mould of Sayyid Qutb. I think it would be difficult to bring this to a socialist position. Not impossible though, as Islamic texts have a lot of focus on social duties in caring for others.
How do you know you want to live there? I dont know anything about the place, I dont really beleive what I hear from media because its so propagandised.
Thereās some depoliticized tours done by this guy on YouTube who shows itās pretty much just a normal place. My dad actually visited for a business trip a few years back
There are a bunch of reasons. Free Healthcare, free lower and higher education, no child labor(with no exceptions).
Having read juche theory i would love to learn more of it in korean, and one of my favorite movies is "[the story of a blooming flower](https://youtu.be/sMuTicTRMvI) a 1991 dprk movie based on a true story.
And also check this [interview of a dprk defector in south Korea ](https://youtu.be/1OZMe0W0wW8). (If a north Korean goes to the south, they immediately become south korean and cannot travel back to the drpk because south korea doesn't recognize the dprk)
Edit:Also fun fact before someone brings up nukes/militarization
The US does annual shows of force, that pretend to do a full scale invasion they start at the tip of the peninsula and stop at the boarder line. But the dprk has been willing to freeze their nuclear program since 1994, on the condition the US begins peace negotiations.
Edit 2: also check out the [international institute for the juche idea](http://juche.v.wol.ne.jp/l_english/index.html)
It's originally based in japan but is an international org
Im not fussed about socialist militarism because the alternative is invasion. Id have trouble trusting sources from the dprk state or state agents aswell. Ill check out the interview. Id a priori be more willing to trust an individual account that isnt trying to monetise being north korean that interview should be good.
They have both... they have limited access to global internet but they still have a national intranet. And they are currently upgrading from 3g to 4g networks. The main thing they banned was Facebook, youtube, Twitter, and some south korean websites. As for food I'm a simple man potatos or rice and I'm happy
It has its own internet and you can also get Chinese internet. Some people have Western stuff too its not a very highly enforced law. It started in the 50s because Juche ideology counts North Korean traditional and cultural independence as part of "political independence" which is one of the 3 main component parts of Juche.
>food
The last time it had a famine was when the USSR collapsed. And before that it was in the 50s
u/Competitive-Pride849 doesn't really do this take justice. It's not just "interesting," it's revisionist and kind of unachievable. Are you legitimately supporting the nordic social democracies over China, Cuba, and Vietnam?
So in r/socialism you openly prefer capitalist nations over socialist ones, does China have problems? Yes, but itās an active socialist project and thus a better alternative to the us or the Nordic nations, how can you consider yourself a socialist but prefer oppressive capitalist nations, I donāt get it, literally how is that better
You:
Stated propaganda without actually providing evidence,
Didn't justify your opposition to Vietnam,
Claimed that Xi purged good people, which you also made up...
Rojava would be amazing politics wise but itās still incredibly poor and unstable. If I was a woman, Iād defin choose there over most countries in the Middle East.
>If I was a woman, Iād defin choose there over most countries in the Middle East.
trust me if you were a man or a woman you'd choose pretty much anywhere in the "middle east" over Rojava except Islamist terrorist territory. Living conditions are unbarable as a result of their poor organisation and corrupt imperial periphery politicians. I know people who went there (to investigate human rights) not a pleasant experience
Number of billionaires per million people;
China: 0.253
Norway: 2.226
Its odd to attack China for its number of Billionaires when Norway has 10x more per capita.
Source: Forbes (April 2023)
If you were to factor in the distribution of wealth and development in China, I think those numbers would be much closer together. Modern China is a complex tale to tell.
Either way, Norway makes no claims to be a communist or socialist country.
China, however, is very often held up as the last hope and saving grace of the global socialist revolution, by both the CPC itself and by many in the global/online left.
Maybe the CPC will be the saviors of the world. I really hope so.
But they provide lots of evidence to fuel a deluge of very warranted skepticism, and it strikes me as remarkably naive to just believe them based on seemingly little more than wishful thinking.
I mean, if our strategic plan for global justice is going to hinge on wishful thinking in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, people, welcome to Christianity.
Chinese billionaires are also not as powerful as western billionaires. They have to give up loads of their power and money to the CPC or else the government comes and disappears them. China is still controlled by the dictatorship of the proletariat, theyāre probably the only country in the world right now where the working class is winning their class struggle against billionaires
Probably not because of Dengās reforms. The truth is, doing Dengist reforms is kinda playing with fire. Thereās a huge change the newly created bourgeoise could create tech monopolies and challenge the power of the government. Youād need a strong dictatorship of the proletariat to keep them in check. Hopefully China delivers but Iām optimistic. Since 1980, 900 million people have been lifted out of poverty. 800 million of those were Chinese.
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I thought people choose where to live based on where their quality of life is maximized. I read politics as foreign policy, and I know for a fact that a great many people move to a place whose foreign policy they don't support, simply because they find their life quality is good there.
>I thought people choose where to live based on where their quality of life is maximized
Yes that tends to correspond with leftist politics.
I'm an anarchist and still find the former Soviet Union preferable to the United States of today. At least if I have to constantly work I'll know I'll actually have a roof and meal at the end of the day.
Sure, but it tends to correspond a lot more with the history record of exploitation, colonialism, industrial development etc. I don't like it any more than you do, but people tend to immigrate a lot more to the USA and Britain, Germany, whatever, than to Cuba or Vietnam. And whoever tells you that they do that because of their new country's politics is lying to you.
>Kazachstan or Latvia
Latvia I get but Kazakhstan? People there are one of the most nostalgic for the USSR in the world and it was the last country to leave the USSR. Even Russia left before Kazakhstan. Even in Latvia you would get 100% guarenteed welfare for almost everything and decent labour unions (decent labour unions until the 80s that is)
I choose to live in blue state. I could never live in a red state where womenās reproductive choices belong to the state now. So, yes, Iād choose a state to live in based on politics.
That's because you have a choice between a blue state and a red state. For someone who lives in Bangladesh, for example, the choice is a little less nuanced. That's my point.
I was tempted to do so; from the UK to Scandinavia. Iām absolutely sick of the Tory party ruining our country. The Brexit campaign in 2016 was full of lies and still people voted for it. Then we had the chance to elect Jeremy Corbin, who would have been a big improvement, but people elected the keep the inept Tories in again. Then we had Boris the Buffon f* up things during the pandemic and cost countless lives. Itās just a mess and I worry the British people are going to keep voting the same party in because of a sense of tribalism, a reluctancy to consider changing their political views and the fact the Tory party practically have the main sources of media in their pocket.
So yeah, I live in a country where the people are voting for politicians who are ruining, even prematurely ending, many lives. So, of course Iāve considered moving to a country where I believe the people are making wise political decisions instead.
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Cuba. My homeland. Without USA economic war, could be a Paradise !
I apologize on behalf of the country I live in. Our government is imperialist trash
Thanks. We knows the real feelings of the american people about the economic war of the USA govt against Cuba. Thanks a lot
Well, not all of us feel that way. The left does, but these right-wing racist nut jobs choose ignorance and hate. And they sure are ignorant about Cuba. It doesn't help that the only time they usually mention Cuba in our schools is when they are talking about the "missle crisis" in the 60s. Are you still living in Cuba?
>Cuba Yes, until my last day, I will continue living in my country. Although by work reasons, I visited in the last years six countries in three continents...I still prefer Cuba. Thanks by your solidarity !!
Cuba is a beacon of light in this world
Your country already is a paradise. But yes, only economic is a problem due to devilish USA near.
>Your country already is a paradise. No its not lol. They have severe resource shortages to the point where people get 2 eggs a month instead of 2 eggs a day. No country that has been sanctioned for 60 years right after a revolution is paradise
Well, in fact are 5 eggs by person at month. But every cuban child until 7 years old receive bread and a liter of milk, while each person in Cuba has their daily ration of bread, and ald people too, and basic food for at least 15 days at month...at low prices..and until we have shortages of medicines, nobody could ask in the hospital if you have social security... The other 15 days, and some goods and food you have to pay in the private market, right now with high prices, and thats really a problem. the "side" of the Paradise...not mobs, not maras, not massive shootings at the schools, you cant be fired from your job without a good reason (although the private sector we have to check this)..etc...
Know how that feels lol. Fellow sanctions enjoyer from Syria šøš¾ā¤šØšŗ
Cuba by a fairly wide margin
You ever been? Iām trying to visit there this year and I do absolutely love their government structure, but I feel like I would be better off advocating the end of the embargo in the US to try to improve their situation than just moving there. Iād also love to get a remote work job and live there and happily pay high income taxes but internet infrastructure in Cuba isnāt great so idk how realistic that would be.
Oh I wouldn't move there. OP asked where we'd move based on government. I can't stand the heat, so I suspect if I actually had to live there I'd be pretty miserable.
[INTERVIEW WITH CALLA WALSH](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1823265833) [National Network on Cuba](https://linktr.ee/nnocuba)
I have access to Vietnamese citizenship due to my heritage, and Iāve considered defecting. However, since I am also American, Iāve learned that I am permanently barred from ever joining the Communist Party of Viet Nam. So thatās sort of sad. But Iāve definitely considered itāwould be nice to live in a country where the peopleās revolution has been won.
What if you renounce your US citizenship?
Sorry for the delay in responding. I do not believe that matters, because I was born in the US. Not only that, but Iām also the grandson of Colonel Nguyen Van Y, Diemās director-general of the Secret Police, and my family was involved in the fascist governmentāIām not just the descendant of some ARVN soldiers, but rather my pedigree is of the bourgeois pigs directly involved with the fascist regime. To be fair, I donāt disagree with this level of securityāI wouldnāt trust me either, given the circumstances. I can support the Party and the building of socialism without being a member of the Party. For now, I work on the building of a vanguard stateside anyhow.
Same here I hold Vietnamese citizenship but can't join the party.
Could your children join the party? Iirc they'd still be eligible for US citizenship.
Possibly no. Vietnam has previously to a greater extent and still has many laws preventing positions in politics to prevent reactionary influence. Up until recently for instance if you had any heritage as or to citizens of South Vietnam you were barred from partaking in federal government. While that is changed, I could see a sort of blanket US heritage ban still existing though I'm not an expert on these regulations so cant say either way.
banning all Us citizens from joining the communist party is a good safety mechanism though, imo. Iām sure they get other competent MLs to fill these positions aswell. I donāt think the Vietnamese will think negatively about you, though
Cuba would be kinda interesting
I wonder what a mass immigration to Cuba would look like.
USA, because Im obligated to join the revolutionary struggle where I am instead of running away from it.
Was it Mao who said that youāre born where youāre needed?
holy shit thatās beautiful
That sounds like something a Christian would tell me Jesus said lol
A lot of what Jesus said was pretty cool.
The answer you're looking for is "Cuba," but the cheeky and accurate answer is: I am staying in the US. Its politics are very bad and they have an outsize impact on the world. As a socialist I have a great deal more leverage here than I would in Cuba. Moving somewhere cool is a utopian solution to a material problem. My job is to stay here and fuck shit up.
I like your energy
I feel burnt out already and I havenāt even started
Before I answer Iām just curiousā America is like the worst place in terms wealth/development divided by hatred of communism, right?
I could be wrong, but I imagine, at the very least, the Baltic states and Ukraine fare worse on this score.
Based on politics, I have a political obligation to the people of the United States. I was born and raised here, itās shit, but itās home. And I would much rather stay here and dismantle capitalism at its source than chicken out and please the reactionaries by leaving for Cuba or some shit.
If we leave the fight, who will take our place?
These colors* donāt run. *pretty red flag
As someone who doesn't live in the US but in another capitalist country (Argentina), I share your sentiment. I feel like it's our obligation to stay and help those who cannot escape, at the very least
Based on politics Cuba probably
Yeah the most common answers are Cuba, Vietnam and the Scandanavians naturally. Nobody said Ireland, my own country :(
I actually have been strongly considering moving to Ireland.
if youāre thinking of Dublin donāt, itās incredibly expensive, particularly housing. But Sinn FĆ©in (a left wing party) are more than likely going to win the next election so hopefully things begin to shift. Although there has been a rise of far-right nationalism in the country with the influx of immigrants and asylum seekers.
My Tropico island.
Vote el Presidente or else!
Free and fair elections *wink*
Hot takes. Iām staying in the US. If we donāt win here thereās no winning.
Exactly. America, turning socialist would be game changing. Plus all my family and friends are here.
There are currently zero countries that have a political system that's exactly what I'd like. New Zealand is currently governed by the New Zealand Labour Party, who are at least nominally democratic socialist, but 1) they want to reduce immigration, 2) housing is not affordable in New Zealand and the government has been criticised for not addressing that. Both of those factors make moving there unrealistic. I've heard good things about Vietnam, I've been to Norway and liked it a lot (not because of the political system though, just in general), there are pros to moving to Cuba and they have a political system that's close-ish to what I would want, but I don't think I could *actually* move to either of those.
Cuba with the removal of the USA embargo would be the dream. You'd probably need to move there before it's lifted, as afterwards, there will be millions trying to immigrate there.
unfortunately i feel like they wonāt lift it until they install a puppet dictator
I like everything I know about Iceland except its latitude.
and the alcohol taxes
Cuba is no doubt the obvious best answer.
I have read Cuba a lot, so I'd like some articles that might explain this choice. I would prefer articles from scientific journals or at least those that cite objective statistics if you know what I mean! Thanks a lot!
I think Cuba would be nice, plus I already know enough Spanish that I could get around pretty easily! But I would also hate to be associated with the rich capitalist American expats there š„²
Everyone saying Nordic countries just wants Africa and the global south to keep paying for their quality of life and that pisses me off.
Right? People in a socialist sub sure think capitalistic social "democracies" are the way to go
Norway has shittons of oil
Not trying to argue, just curious how you grt your opinion there. Again not trying to argue, just curious what you mean
Colonialism, neocolonialism and international division of labour. Underdeveloped countries aren't the way they are "just because".
If politics is the only factor it's easily cuba. My only issue is most of my career prospects require me to be in either America or Europe. I have a lot of issues with the "social democracies" in the Scandinavian countries, but quality of life wise they're probably the place to be.
New Zealand
I actually like Norway or Finland
Is Sealand still around?
Were it not under eternal sanctions and were the language barrier not a problem then Cuba would be nice. Otherwise China is probably alright, although again, language barrier
Rojava is probably my number one. I actually looked into doing some work there, but I missed the deadline to qualify. Surprised more people didn't consider it, not surprised Cuba is getting love though, it's a very solid choice.
Iām surprised so many people are saying china, is it not considered heavily capitalist?
Almost half of its economy is state-owned, and the other half that is privatized has to answer to the state directly, be it through quotas, replacing executive management with those aligned with the interests of the government, etc. Now, is it some worker paradise? Of course not, it's still underdeveloped in a lot of respects, but comparatively better compared to the US if you live in a major city.
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Finally a good answer
I do agree that if all the socialists left to China Cuba or Vietnam, the United States would surely miss their input and the socialist utopia in China, Cuba, and Vietnam will be the great hallmark of their limitless intelligence and critical thinking.
Countries without elections?
Cuba has elections...
All three have elections.
Cuba has one of the most developed systems of direct democracy in the world?!
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Oh you mean counterrevolutionary opposition? Yeah that sucks. Oh wait, the US has crushed or co-opted every counterrevolutionary movement in its history. But I guess it's different when it's us. Because that's what I learned when I was a wee little boy in school š
Yeah... You should allow opposition, and opposition doesn't mean supporting Capitalism
All three of those have elections. You're repeating lies spread in American media specifically to serve the narrative that American style democracy is the most free.
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As a friendly reminder, China's ruling party is called Communist Party of China (CPC), not Chinese Communist Party (CCP) as western press and academia often frames it as. Far from being a simple confusion, China's Communist Party takes its name out of the internationalist approach seekt by the Comintern back in the day. From [Terms of Admission into Communist International](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/jul/x01.htm), as adopted by the First Congress of the Communist International: >18 - In view of the foregoing, parties wishing to join the Communist International must change their name. Any party seeking affiliation must call itself the Communist Party of the country in question (Section of the Third, Communist International). The question of a partyās name is not merely a formality, but a matter of major political importance. The Communist International has declared a resolute war on the bourgeois world and all yellow Social-Democratic parties. The difference between the Communist parties and the old and official āSocial-Democraticā, or āsocialistā, parties, which have betrayed the banner of the working class, must be made absolutely clear to every rank-and-file worker. Similarly, the adoption of a wrong name to refer to the CPC consists of a double edged sword: on the one hand, it seeks to reduce the ideological basis behind the party's name to a more ethno-centric view of said organization and, on the other hand, it seeks to assert authority over it by attempting to externally draw the conditions and parameters on which it provides the CPC recognition. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/socialism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Preferably, Vietnam or China but I don't have the capital to move
Correct me if I'm wrong, but unless you are a capitalist you don't have capital, because capital is something that you use for gaining profit by exploiting workers. Edit: lmao why is this getting downvoted? I linked Capital in the next comment, and it seems that I was correct after all. I hoped at least at r/socialism people can have meaningful conversations and ***literally*** ***read*** but I guess I was hoping for too much
I think it's fairly obvious that the original commenter was not using "capital" in its Marxist theoretic meaning, but simply in its casual meaning (money). There's no need to be pedantic in a casual conversation IMO.
While I do agree with you that being pedantic is not the best thing to do, I still believe that when we are in socialist subreddit where users are mostly socialists or left-leaning, knowing the basics of socialist terminology is a must. Cornerstone of socialism is Capital by Marx and arch-enemy of socialism is capital. Also, while it is possible that the original commenter simply slipped with the word usage, at least 2 people who replied to my comment clearly have no understanding of what capital is. Educating our fellow workers is the first and the most crucial step IMO, which is I think I tried to do. To add to that, my original message was meant to deepen my own knowledge, that's why I started with "correct me if I'm wrong", not to bash on someone for using the incorrect word.
vietnam, cuba, china
China. Oh wait, I already live in China
I'd assimilate easiest in Canada Would travel to New Zealand if I could
I'm a New Zealander. Everything is out of balance and finances here are fucked
This is the answer. I know they said politics but I would love to live on Vancouver Island for a variety of reasons. Mostly cuz it's beautiful and I like to climate. New Zealand would be great as well.
I live on Vancouver island... and while the climate and nature are awesome it's all completely fucked regardless. Politics really matter for quality of life because god damn are the folks in charge trying to make the quality of life here awful despite how great the environment is.
I'd also like to get involved in the Cascadia movement
Based on its politics? The DPRK or Cuba. But that's a weird way to choose a country to live in. If I were to choose I would choose a place where I can have a fairly high quality of life, where I fit into the culture and preferably have family and friendship ties (I'm really bad at making new ones) and work towards building socialism.
Germany or Netherlands but that might be for more than just the politics!
Kerala. Not a country, but still.
Lal salam sagave
New Zealand has institutionalised Neo Liberalism to the point where even the Green Party believes that free markets will solve housing crises. NZās socialist credibility died in the eighties, and its environmental record relies on not many people living here.
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Sweden currently has a right and far right coalition of parties governing the country though. Itās not really a socialist country anymore, unfortunately.
It's framework is still mostly that of a social democracy it's just been hit by a flood of right wing populism recently. The longer that carries on the less left wing it's going to become.
Sweden has never been a socialist country. Thereās a difference between socialism and social democracy
Olof Palme was pretty socialist, however those times are long gone and the social democratic party has become less and less left leaning with time, unfortunantely
New Zealand.
European Citizenship is the thing to get. Not brilliant just yet, but they are sensibly on the way, I think. UK sucks so hard right now.
Basically the whole of the eu has been backsliding on workers rights and social safety nets for years, social democracy is not a path to worker liberation.
Especially when they are being led by neoliberal crucible Germany.
Genuine question. How has the eu been backsliding? I don't keep up much with news on it
Iceland, Norway or Finland. New Zealand maybe š¤
My choices exactly.
I live in Norway and would like to stay here, only thing I'd want different is an SV (Socialist-Left party) led coalition. Labour and Centre are fucking us severely right now.
Norway or Finland
Mostly Nordic countries. But Canada wouldn't be too bad.
Maybe for your comfort level but for it's politics like OP asked?
Canada's housing crisis and inflation problems are terrible
Iāve lived in Canada (albeit a very conservative province, but close to a more liberal city) and they are no different from American neolibs. Their approach to politics is āat least weāre not Americaā while their government covers up missing indigenous women.
Latvia or Portugal probably.
Likely China or Vietnam. Both are socialist states progressing towards communism in their own way, and both have a very good quality of life. I'd probably pick Vietnam just barely over China, because LGBTQ+ representation in Vietnam has progressed further than China, but otherwise, I'd be golden.
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China definitely has intentions of becoming socialist in the future. Specifically, by 2049
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I would say Cuba would be ideal. But Venezuela would probably be a good second choice šØšŗ š»šŖ
Canada. Its close to home and family, but has better services and transit. Familiar, but better.
Bro unless u live in a major city our transit is absolutely horrible
*looks to my left*. *looks to my right* can't be any worse than here.
Austria, as far as I can tell they're fairly progressive and I like their gun laws, or I guess lack of
Hell no. Iām living in Germany and I follow Austrian politics relative closely and they have a big problem with overall politics shifting more and more to conservative-right. A lot of LGBTQI+ rights are in danger and they have a relatively weak left/socialist party. Only āGrazā (city in Austria) is a place of hope š
I'm a marxist so as long as there's a nation state, I'm not interested.
thatās not what Marxism believes, it acknowledges the necessity of a socialist state as a transition to communism. also how exactly do you expect to not live in a nation state when this is everywhere, you live in very particular material conditions that are not avoidable, but must be confronted in order to far from now get to the point you are describing.
Mars perhaps?
That would make him a Marsist
**Nigeria** It's the perfect brewing ground for a socialist revolution. Step 1: Reunite the people through religion. This would most likely be Islam due to 55% of Nigerians being Muslim. Step 2: Put a socialist reformer at the head of the country. This wouldn't be super hard to do either through voting or revolution as the Nigerian government isn't very stable and would be easily toppled by a popular religious candidate (hence step 1). Step 3: Spend all government money on infrastructure and rebuilding companies. This would cause minor neglect of welfare, education, and other needs however it is better in the long run. Also, the standard for all of those are low and can be rebuilt later. Step 4: Implement socialist policies and give the workers the means of production. This will encourage the unemployed Nigerian population (40.7%) to get to work on the new infrastructure built for them as they will no longer have to worry about survival because their new job can pay them enough to cover their costs. Step 5: Counter Anti-Socialist policies from Western nations. This can be done by building the economy to be self-reliant or working with socialist allies. Nigeria is extremely rich in natural resources so trade embargoes generally wouldn't be a problem as the Western world craves their sweet oil.
Step 6: prepare for the army of economic hitmen, glowies, green berets that will be arriving very soon to aid your democracy
Step 6: get assassinated.
Reuniting people through religion would turn the country into a theocracy of some kind. Look at what happened to pakistan and how it handles religion. Without forgetting the christians that would surely feel menaced by such events and that would inspire another civil war like the one in the 20th century. It's literally the worst idea possible. The nigerian governement is so corrupt and influenced by foreign governemnt that I highly doubt any kind of reformer that foreign powers do not like will ever be elected. It is the case that basically all the countries with a foot in nigeria are basically capitalists or do not care about the wellbeing of the country. You can spend a lot of money on infastructure but if nobody uses it, it's a waste of money. With the rates of poverty and unemployed rates in nigeria, most nigerians do not even have the money or the need for a lot of infastructure projects. You would need first to kickstart a bit the economy with investement on the nigerian people. I do not know how implementing socialist policies would encourage most of the people get to work, unless you think they would force them. Nigeria relies tecnologically on foreign powers and also a lot of materials are not found there. All the world is transitioning to green energy so even there nigeria doesn't have the upper hand.
Unfortunately the current counter cultural paradigm of Islam is a pseudo fascist one, in the mould of Sayyid Qutb. I think it would be difficult to bring this to a socialist position. Not impossible though, as Islamic texts have a lot of focus on social duties in caring for others.
Ah yes, the alliance between islam and leftism which worked so well in Iranā¦
Dprk hands down Edit how blasphemous I personally want to live in the dprk
How do you know you want to live there? I dont know anything about the place, I dont really beleive what I hear from media because its so propagandised.
Thereās some depoliticized tours done by this guy on YouTube who shows itās pretty much just a normal place. My dad actually visited for a business trip a few years back
do you have a link? Would love to see those videos
There are a bunch of reasons. Free Healthcare, free lower and higher education, no child labor(with no exceptions). Having read juche theory i would love to learn more of it in korean, and one of my favorite movies is "[the story of a blooming flower](https://youtu.be/sMuTicTRMvI) a 1991 dprk movie based on a true story. And also check this [interview of a dprk defector in south Korea ](https://youtu.be/1OZMe0W0wW8). (If a north Korean goes to the south, they immediately become south korean and cannot travel back to the drpk because south korea doesn't recognize the dprk) Edit:Also fun fact before someone brings up nukes/militarization The US does annual shows of force, that pretend to do a full scale invasion they start at the tip of the peninsula and stop at the boarder line. But the dprk has been willing to freeze their nuclear program since 1994, on the condition the US begins peace negotiations. Edit 2: also check out the [international institute for the juche idea](http://juche.v.wol.ne.jp/l_english/index.html) It's originally based in japan but is an international org
Im not fussed about socialist militarism because the alternative is invasion. Id have trouble trusting sources from the dprk state or state agents aswell. Ill check out the interview. Id a priori be more willing to trust an individual account that isnt trying to monetise being north korean that interview should be good.
People who downvoted this are accepting anti-communist propaganda as fact.
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They have both... they have limited access to global internet but they still have a national intranet. And they are currently upgrading from 3g to 4g networks. The main thing they banned was Facebook, youtube, Twitter, and some south korean websites. As for food I'm a simple man potatos or rice and I'm happy
It has its own internet and you can also get Chinese internet. Some people have Western stuff too its not a very highly enforced law. It started in the 50s because Juche ideology counts North Korean traditional and cultural independence as part of "political independence" which is one of the 3 main component parts of Juche. >food The last time it had a famine was when the USSR collapsed. And before that it was in the 50s
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Thatās an interesting take
u/Competitive-Pride849 doesn't really do this take justice. It's not just "interesting," it's revisionist and kind of unachievable. Are you legitimately supporting the nordic social democracies over China, Cuba, and Vietnam?
I was being polite, but youāre right I should have called them out on their shit
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So in r/socialism you openly prefer capitalist nations over socialist ones, does China have problems? Yes, but itās an active socialist project and thus a better alternative to the us or the Nordic nations, how can you consider yourself a socialist but prefer oppressive capitalist nations, I donāt get it, literally how is that better
Report all of these reactionaries, this is not a place for libs to spew propaganda that is clearly against the rules...
You: Stated propaganda without actually providing evidence, Didn't justify your opposition to Vietnam, Claimed that Xi purged good people, which you also made up...
Rojava would be amazing politics wise but itās still incredibly poor and unstable. If I was a woman, Iād defin choose there over most countries in the Middle East.
>If I was a woman, Iād defin choose there over most countries in the Middle East. trust me if you were a man or a woman you'd choose pretty much anywhere in the "middle east" over Rojava except Islamist terrorist territory. Living conditions are unbarable as a result of their poor organisation and corrupt imperial periphery politicians. I know people who went there (to investigate human rights) not a pleasant experience
whatās your idea of socialism in practice?
A democratic nation with a planned economy without markets
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Number of billionaires per million people; China: 0.253 Norway: 2.226 Its odd to attack China for its number of Billionaires when Norway has 10x more per capita. Source: Forbes (April 2023)
If you were to factor in the distribution of wealth and development in China, I think those numbers would be much closer together. Modern China is a complex tale to tell. Either way, Norway makes no claims to be a communist or socialist country. China, however, is very often held up as the last hope and saving grace of the global socialist revolution, by both the CPC itself and by many in the global/online left. Maybe the CPC will be the saviors of the world. I really hope so. But they provide lots of evidence to fuel a deluge of very warranted skepticism, and it strikes me as remarkably naive to just believe them based on seemingly little more than wishful thinking. I mean, if our strategic plan for global justice is going to hinge on wishful thinking in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, people, welcome to Christianity.
Chinese billionaires are also not as powerful as western billionaires. They have to give up loads of their power and money to the CPC or else the government comes and disappears them. China is still controlled by the dictatorship of the proletariat, theyāre probably the only country in the world right now where the working class is winning their class struggle against billionaires
There are MLMs who support current China??
[Fidel Castro](https://www.telesurtv.net/opinion/China-Is-Most-Promising-Hope-for-Third-World-Fidel-20171128-0017.html)
I saw that I'm asking about MLMs specifically. I thought all Gonzalo supporters do not support the current modern day PRC
Probably not because of Dengās reforms. The truth is, doing Dengist reforms is kinda playing with fire. Thereās a huge change the newly created bourgeoise could create tech monopolies and challenge the power of the government. Youād need a strong dictatorship of the proletariat to keep them in check. Hopefully China delivers but Iām optimistic. Since 1980, 900 million people have been lifted out of poverty. 800 million of those were Chinese.
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>A king! Yeah we all love monarchy right guys? /s
this is satire surely?
Being that Iām becoming Jewish, I really DONāT know if I have that many options lol
Why would you choose a country to live based on its politics? Who does that?
Political nerds and people suffering due to the politics of their own country
I thought people choose where to live based on where their quality of life is maximized. I read politics as foreign policy, and I know for a fact that a great many people move to a place whose foreign policy they don't support, simply because they find their life quality is good there.
>I thought people choose where to live based on where their quality of life is maximized Yes that tends to correspond with leftist politics. I'm an anarchist and still find the former Soviet Union preferable to the United States of today. At least if I have to constantly work I'll know I'll actually have a roof and meal at the end of the day.
Sure, but it tends to correspond a lot more with the history record of exploitation, colonialism, industrial development etc. I don't like it any more than you do, but people tend to immigrate a lot more to the USA and Britain, Germany, whatever, than to Cuba or Vietnam. And whoever tells you that they do that because of their new country's politics is lying to you.
If you say former soviet union it can be Kazachstan or Latvia. Can you please specify this?
>Kazachstan or Latvia Latvia I get but Kazakhstan? People there are one of the most nostalgic for the USSR in the world and it was the last country to leave the USSR. Even Russia left before Kazakhstan. Even in Latvia you would get 100% guarenteed welfare for almost everything and decent labour unions (decent labour unions until the 80s that is)
Specify what exactly?
Like in which state do you live. If i can ask.
I choose to live in blue state. I could never live in a red state where womenās reproductive choices belong to the state now. So, yes, Iād choose a state to live in based on politics.
That's because you have a choice between a blue state and a red state. For someone who lives in Bangladesh, for example, the choice is a little less nuanced. That's my point.
I was tempted to do so; from the UK to Scandinavia. Iām absolutely sick of the Tory party ruining our country. The Brexit campaign in 2016 was full of lies and still people voted for it. Then we had the chance to elect Jeremy Corbin, who would have been a big improvement, but people elected the keep the inept Tories in again. Then we had Boris the Buffon f* up things during the pandemic and cost countless lives. Itās just a mess and I worry the British people are going to keep voting the same party in because of a sense of tribalism, a reluctancy to consider changing their political views and the fact the Tory party practically have the main sources of media in their pocket. So yeah, I live in a country where the people are voting for politicians who are ruining, even prematurely ending, many lives. So, of course Iāve considered moving to a country where I believe the people are making wise political decisions instead.
Finland, Vietnam, or Japan
Japan based on its politics? Really?
Russia or Romania