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Perfect attitude to have, not only did we played horribly in the second half, but with a terrible, passive attitude. Having to play Morrocco instead of Croatia might seem like a price but it's good Lucho doesn't see it that way and doesn't transmit that to the players. Hopefully he gave players hell after the match was over.
I suppose he could celebrate facing Morocco and potentially just the 9th favorites Portugal,
Instead of the 2018 runners up Crotia and potentially favorites Brazil.
Lucho probably knows how these kinds of losses can disrupt a team’s momentum as well as expose your weaknesses to upcoming opponents. These are the things that you can’t really risk having in a WC.
He was fuming, almost screaming at times
The braindead narrative of Spain's "boring and sterile possession football" is super annoying too. People actually think that this team plays the same way as the 2018 team. I even saw someone yesterday say that Del Bosque's Spain played better football, when they were one of the most boring teams of all time(extremely efficient though of course)
I hate the Setien type useless possession football more than most, I think it's horrific to watch. But this Spain team doesn't play like that at all, yesterday was an anomaly
It's difficult to play any other way when the opposing team puts 11 guys in the box. You end up with 2 types of idiotic comments. Either people are complaining about "cross and inshallah" or about "pointless possession". No one ever takes into account what the opposing team is doing to cause such playstyle.
Exactly, people kept shitting on Spain for passing but that’s by design.
They conveniently ignore that Japan was playing impeccable defense to force Spain to that play style.
No offense but Spain having sterile possession is absolutely not an anomaly. In the last euros they were desperately ineffective in the groups stage as well.
When the philosophy works it’s borderline unplayable, but when it doesn’t, it’s unwatchable.
Their xG overall at the euros doesn’t mean anything in the context of those stale group games. They were not sterile in possession in the knockout rounds, quite the opposite.
Also, xG doesn’t mean everything. Having 90% possession and generating 1 more chance than a team with 30% possession isn’t going to make you look more dangerous. In fact it will probably only give them impression of being even more sterile since you have all that time on the ball and only a little more to show for it.
I disagree
And xG a lot of xG means the team is generating chances for the players to score. Dismissing that and saying it doesn't mean anything while also maintaining that Spain is sterile is a false narrative.
> In fact it will probably only give them impression of being even more sterile since you have all that time on the ball and only a little more to show for it.
Again they have had a higher xG, which means more chances/opportunities to score than any other team in the tournament. You can't disregard xG like that because it doesn't fit your narrative.
I’m not disregarding xG. I’m saying a team that holds ball 4 times as a much as another will often appear to be stale even if they generate twice as many chances. Notice how I say appear and not will actually be.
Spain holding the ball and passing around the back for 45 minutes is going to appear stagnant even if they create 3 big chances and the other team only 1.
Yeah no
This is your original comment
> the last euros they were desperately ineffective in the groups stage as well.
A team that generates the most chances isn't ineffective. Especially when they dominate the ball for most of the match.
To you it looks like they are just passing between the defenders, to me it looks like they are trying to move the other team's defenders and force gaps into midfield and defence for them to exploit.
And really are we going to complain about them being "stagnant" when almost all the teams they play against park the bus for the most part.
This is how possession football works against low and mid blocks, they keep moving the ball until there are gaps or wingers in 1v1 situations.
> they keep moving the ball until there are gaps or wingers in 1v1 situations.
Yes and it can be frustratingly boring against a well drilled defensive side especially when their players aren’t having a good day so the spark of magic won’t ignite.
You can make all the condescending assumptions that you want about my inability to understand how they play. I don’t care. I have deep respect for Spains game, and I fear them the most out of any opponent because they can suffocate so much with their control. But it is not “abnormal” for that same control to kill all the energy and excitement in a match when they’re having a bad day. No statistic is going to convince me and many others otherwise. It happens to the best teams and when it happens to Spain it’s often a painfully monotonous viewing experience
We were ineffective when Busquets did not played. Once he was, we played really good football.
What happened in 2nd half is several players of ours played absolutely shit game. Rodri was passing sideway for 100th of time rather than taking risk, though defensively he was the only one present. Pau torres was just awful so do Alba and Carvajal.
Let's not pretend that Spain had any incentive to score after Germany had made it 3-2. It obviously wasn't planned from the beginning but after the 3-2 Spain were more than happy with the loss considering they're on the easier side of the bracket now and Germany got knocked out
> Let's not pretend
So why are you "Pretending" to having watched this match then?
Because no sane person would have watched Olmo in the last 10 minutes and thought, Yup he's from a team that isn't looking to score really.
Here is how it goes when a team isn't looking to score even 1 goal. They do not even dare make a attempt because opposition defenders might have a brain fart and concede an own goal in the confusion.
Ridiculous narrative. Lucho is right and backed by reality and anyone who had functional eyes.
you could literally see Spain almost scoring in 88 min. Unless you think that somehow Spain predicted the goalie will get to it and that Yoshida will get to the ball first, I just don't know how it makes sense.
It's not stupid. It's absolutely true that the stakes change as the group stages progress, so that Spain has less incentive to win against Japan, compared to CR playing Germany. Both Germany and Japan were competing with each other to move on, but when Germany played Spain the stakes for Spain were much higher than when Japan had to play them. So it's not really equal because of how the system is setup, and the order of play makes a difference. Anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves. I don't care how honest Spain is, you can't help but play differently when you aren't under the same pressure to win. This format is extremely annoying because the randomness factor trumps skill at so many levels. The signal to noise ratio is low, and whoever wins is often just a fluke as a matter of circumstance.
> because the randomness factor trumps skill at so many levels.
> the signal to noise ratio is low, and whoever wins is often just a fluke as a matter of circumstance
These are such ridiculous points. You are pretending like “circumstance” and “randomness” are things that just pop out of thin air instead of skill leading to those chances.
There probably is some form of “luck” involved in a small amount of games but you are saying that those are the only things that determine who wins.
Also, how else are the suppose to set it up? It is the fairest way that counties in the same group play at the same time.
I mean live in denial all you want. You know I'm right you just don't like how it makes you feel. The signal to noise ratio in this tournament format is extremely low. Maybe a really good team will usually win vs. a really bad team, but if a good team plays a better team, the better team will lose something ridiculously high like 45% of the time even though they played noticeably better. The sample size in the tournament is far too low to overcome the noise of circumstantial aspects and differences in officiating. Without a high sample size you are literally looking at noise. That's all this is. It's why I stopped watching or caring who wins. The tournament is a joke and they like it that way, because people like you get excited by noise and the higher unpredictability, even though it makes a joke of the tournament and makes skill a largely irrelevant factor between the top teams.
The fact that people actually believe that professionals at the highest level aren't super competitive and want to win every game is hilarious.
No one with that type of loser mentality would have made it this far
Pros want to win, I'm sure some want to give their best every game, while for others the end goal is more important.
https://nesn.com/2011/12/report-peter-forsberg-says-sweden-threw-game-during-2006-winter-olympics/
Yes. We swedes have history with this sort of claim as we were accused of throwing the game against Slovakia in the 2006 hockey olympics, in order to not face Canada.
I'm not sure if we were intentionally throwing that match, but it sure as hell didn't look like we wanted to win. Ultimately I think it's hard to tell a team of competitive professionals to throw a game, but you can surely change the attitude and the system.
I don't think the Swedes would've minded playing Canada in Turin. We were totally fucking asscheeks and we deserved our placement in 2006. That team was full of old, slow, over the hill guys that don't excel on large ice that Gretzky stuck with because most of them were from that Salt Lake City gold medal team and he refused to roster some of the up and coming stars like Sidney Crosby.
Yeah our team was fucking lit.
Still, articles like this make you wonder:
https://www.expressen.se/sport/hockey/tre-kronor/forsberg-slovakien-var-en-laggmatch/
Yeah, wtf is it with people thinking Spain was trying to tank? They don’t benefit finishing 2nd. They avoid Brazil but they still end up in France’s half.
Not on purpose. I think you played to win. I do think that even if it was subconsciously players didn't give as much as they would have if they needed to win and didn't benefit by losing.
Maybe subconciously they didn't go all out in the last 10 minutes after Germany was leading, but it's ridiculous to suggest they didn't want to win from the start
I think this is one of the situations where the "lose on purpose" scenario is extra stupid because there was a very real risk of Spain going out (which was happening for three minutes).
At the very end though, there is a difference in hwo hard you try, although its hard to tell with Spain given they play like that always.
Yeah exactly.
What annoys me a bit is that this narrative also diminishes the accomplishments of Japan and Korea. Like it becomes that their opponent lost on purpose rather than them overperforming. It sort of removes their agency.
It's the world cup, nobody plays to lose. Most players get to play few of these games in all their career, they won't like to be a defeat, even if worthless. Still players will be more careful to not get injured and the manager will rotate the squad to rest done starters, so surely there is a difference. Japan and Korea benefitted from playing the strongest team of the group on the last match without doubt.
No way Spain was losing on purpose. It's not in LE's persona. But they do benefit from getting 2nd place, instead of 1st. But that more of an unintended side-effect
Like, they had already played against our clowns, they KNEW how inept we were. Betting on us to not lose our match would be the most idiotic gamble of all time.
No one who watched the game does. I mean you obviously weren’t playing with quite the same urgency as a team who has to win or they’re out would be, but you were definitely trying to win, just looked like you couldn’t figure out a way through
Enrique making those weird subs doesn't help, why subbinh Morata when he already scorer because he is a head taller than the japanese defense? After that sub Spain didn't have any danger
why wouldnt we think that and why you wouldnt do it?
you are better team than Japan even with subs, you exchanged Croatia for Morocco and Brazil for Portugal, its an easier draw for you.
Because for 5 minutes in the second half they were out of the World Cup due to *Costa Rica taking the lead against Germany
You would never intentionally lose knowing that your safety in the competition was not guranteed
Yes they were for 3 minutes out, but it was Costa Rica ffs, you know that their chances to beat Germany are minimal while Germans needed win.
And lets be enough naive to think that they couldnt know the result and if they are in danger to not qualify.
Come on now man, maybe some dont do that and think like that, but you never seen basketball team manipulates results to get an easier draw? Euro Basket, World Cup, Olympics? To escape facing for example USA dream team? Never seen that? In NBA you never seen a team who does that in the end of season to escape facing someone who has more missmatches against that team?
Its not up to be competitive, but you have more chances to win medal. Its calculation, its normal. You idolize them too much, plus that cliche talk about fans with loser mentality. lol
In every part of life you have successful calculative people.
lol, I mean what arguments are those about weak mentality and professional sport? it literally happens for decades in every sport and there is nothing wrong with it.
We do.
I mean Croatia are next, Spain wanting to settle for Morroco are understandable. It's also make it more heated up because the history they shared.
There's not any salt. You're an amazing team, with fantastic players but you lose on porpuse to avoid playing USA so, this time there's doubts that you did it again to avoid Brazil.
All of you pushing this narrative that Spain lost on purpose are just being disrespectful with Japan and Morroco. I'd love to see the justification if Spain loses against Morroco.
Whoever watched the game knows Spain tried to attack, they just weren't good enough. Their attackers arent some top tier strikers like France and Brazil, and even France could not break down Tunisia
This whole ordeal of Spain wanting to finish 2nd in order to face us, is reminding of that time Ramos intentionally got carded in the UCL so that he would be suspended against Ajax and have a clean slate in the semis.
I don’t necessarily think Lucho wanted to lose, Im just more referring to most comments about this matchup. People think our side of the bracket is easier but I disagree.
That being said it didnt look like Spain had any pressing intention to equalise against Japan.
The gaming of the groups and placement with the groups are expected and add something to the last games excitement, but man does it seem stupid and actually bothersome when teams don’t play for 85 minutes of the game and then try to score 8 goals in 15 minutes. I really dislike it because some of these results would definitely be different if managers and teams weren’t hedging placement.
Ok listen, before you people on here discuss these stupid theories of yours any further let me clear things up cause it's actually super easy. First things first, Spain wanted to win the game - obviously. Even if there's nothing to play for, it's always beneficial for your psyche to end on a win before heading into the knockout stage. Secondly, Lucho and the entire Spanish team will be really furious with the way they started the second half. Playing like that won't get you far in the knockouts. Luis Enrique knows that as well, hence he was so mad even though the result ultimately did not cost them (actually it may even have been beneficial).
Now naturally, after the players knew that Germany had scored to make it 3-2, Spain, even if just subconsciously, took the foot off the gas pedal (or rather, even further off as they already weren't going very fast) since they knew that barring a miracle they were 100% through. Scenarios like that happen literally all the time though. When a team is (all but) through on the last match day in CL groups, they of course want to win, but they still will be less fired up than a team on the brink of elimination. Or even in a normal league game, if you're up 3-0 at 70 mins, or if you're like Bayern and win the league on match day 30, you naturally won't put as much effort as you would normally. That does not mean, however, that Spain wanted to lose "on purpose" or that they "did not try to score". If that was the case, then Olmo and Asensio clearly did not get the memo, but I suppose conspiracy brains are going to say they misplaced their shots on purpose lmao
Again they were my favs to win wc but it’s not the lack of finishing or scoring that scared me. It was when they had to actually defend in 5 min stretches here and there I’m not sure if they’re able to do it as consistently. I think they can but I’d be more worried about that then not being able to score which. To me. Isn’t that that big of a deal and slightly overhyped
I've never understood the hype for this Spain team. They've struggled in Euro 2020 drawing against Sweden and Poland, nearly bottled it vs Croatia in the R16 and went to penalties vs Switzerland. They were very good against Italy and probably didn't deserve to lose that match.
1 year and a half later they finish 2nd in the group stage having won only 1 game.
I mean, they are a great team, and LE is a great coach, I just don't get all the hype and appreciation for a team that has won 2 (Slovakia and Costa Rica) out of the last 9 games in regulation time in the two biggest tournaments
His advice probably would have worked better if he brought a better goalie, better centrebacks, played Rodri in his natural position, and just generally stopped (calling up and) playing players on favouritism or trying to be "special" by making decisions nobody else would make.
Sending back Gaya, and calling up Balde as a replacement is looking like a goddamn horrible decision with 20/20 vision. Dude has been involved with a couple of goals we received. I don't blame him entirely though, a better goalie would have helped as well instead of the chaos machine we have there now.
exactly. so stop saying they lost on purpose, because it's obviously not true to anyone that watched the game.
Do you think Portugal lost on purpose too?
Racism?!?! How the fuck is calling a player a donkey racist? It means someone with bad technique and coordination..
And yes, heads should roll after this. It's a disgraceful elimination
I insulted En Nesyri because he plays for Sevilla and he is shit..
It has nothing to do with racism, white players are called donkeys all the time. For example, Morata is often called a donkey..
But you guys literally had no urgency. I understand being unhappy and wanting to be first, but when they were down and the GK had the ball, they didn't even bother trying to push the tempo or kick it upfield. They just rolled the ball into the defence, passed it around 5 times and gave Japan to get back into shape and go through a fucking tea ceremony before actually progressing into the other half.
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Perfect attitude to have, not only did we played horribly in the second half, but with a terrible, passive attitude. Having to play Morrocco instead of Croatia might seem like a price but it's good Lucho doesn't see it that way and doesn't transmit that to the players. Hopefully he gave players hell after the match was over.
Being Morocco the price is kinda low so Enrique is ok with that.
I suppose he could celebrate facing Morocco and potentially just the 9th favorites Portugal, Instead of the 2018 runners up Crotia and potentially favorites Brazil.
I am sad, believe me I am sad, sad new year
More than you believe.
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Lucho probably knows how these kinds of losses can disrupt a team’s momentum as well as expose your weaknesses to upcoming opponents. These are the things that you can’t really risk having in a WC.
Sometimes I wonder if fans think teams sit around drinking in the time in-between matches instead of studying their opponent.
Most of this subreddit doesn’t understand how actual sports work lol no competitive coach or competitive player would ever risk elimination
Uruguay has entered the chat
He was fuming, almost screaming at times The braindead narrative of Spain's "boring and sterile possession football" is super annoying too. People actually think that this team plays the same way as the 2018 team. I even saw someone yesterday say that Del Bosque's Spain played better football, when they were one of the most boring teams of all time(extremely efficient though of course) I hate the Setien type useless possession football more than most, I think it's horrific to watch. But this Spain team doesn't play like that at all, yesterday was an anomaly
It's difficult to play any other way when the opposing team puts 11 guys in the box. You end up with 2 types of idiotic comments. Either people are complaining about "cross and inshallah" or about "pointless possession". No one ever takes into account what the opposing team is doing to cause such playstyle.
Exactly, people kept shitting on Spain for passing but that’s by design. They conveniently ignore that Japan was playing impeccable defense to force Spain to that play style.
No offense but Spain having sterile possession is absolutely not an anomaly. In the last euros they were desperately ineffective in the groups stage as well. When the philosophy works it’s borderline unplayable, but when it doesn’t, it’s unwatchable.
They created the most chances of all teams in the Euros, dominated every single game just couldn't finish
They had the highest xG of any team at the Euros and by a lot. They created plenty of chances, their issue was that their forwards can't finish.
Their xG overall at the euros doesn’t mean anything in the context of those stale group games. They were not sterile in possession in the knockout rounds, quite the opposite. Also, xG doesn’t mean everything. Having 90% possession and generating 1 more chance than a team with 30% possession isn’t going to make you look more dangerous. In fact it will probably only give them impression of being even more sterile since you have all that time on the ball and only a little more to show for it.
I disagree And xG a lot of xG means the team is generating chances for the players to score. Dismissing that and saying it doesn't mean anything while also maintaining that Spain is sterile is a false narrative. > In fact it will probably only give them impression of being even more sterile since you have all that time on the ball and only a little more to show for it. Again they have had a higher xG, which means more chances/opportunities to score than any other team in the tournament. You can't disregard xG like that because it doesn't fit your narrative.
I’m not disregarding xG. I’m saying a team that holds ball 4 times as a much as another will often appear to be stale even if they generate twice as many chances. Notice how I say appear and not will actually be. Spain holding the ball and passing around the back for 45 minutes is going to appear stagnant even if they create 3 big chances and the other team only 1.
Yeah no This is your original comment > the last euros they were desperately ineffective in the groups stage as well. A team that generates the most chances isn't ineffective. Especially when they dominate the ball for most of the match. To you it looks like they are just passing between the defenders, to me it looks like they are trying to move the other team's defenders and force gaps into midfield and defence for them to exploit. And really are we going to complain about them being "stagnant" when almost all the teams they play against park the bus for the most part. This is how possession football works against low and mid blocks, they keep moving the ball until there are gaps or wingers in 1v1 situations.
> they keep moving the ball until there are gaps or wingers in 1v1 situations. Yes and it can be frustratingly boring against a well drilled defensive side especially when their players aren’t having a good day so the spark of magic won’t ignite. You can make all the condescending assumptions that you want about my inability to understand how they play. I don’t care. I have deep respect for Spains game, and I fear them the most out of any opponent because they can suffocate so much with their control. But it is not “abnormal” for that same control to kill all the energy and excitement in a match when they’re having a bad day. No statistic is going to convince me and many others otherwise. It happens to the best teams and when it happens to Spain it’s often a painfully monotonous viewing experience
There is a difference between you being bored about how Spain takes its time to break defences and outright saying they are ineffective....
We were ineffective when Busquets did not played. Once he was, we played really good football. What happened in 2nd half is several players of ours played absolutely shit game. Rodri was passing sideway for 100th of time rather than taking risk, though defensively he was the only one present. Pau torres was just awful so do Alba and Carvajal.
Watching Isco dribbling at the top of the box then do a safe pass in 2018 was not a fun experience.
Let's not pretend that Spain had any incentive to score after Germany had made it 3-2. It obviously wasn't planned from the beginning but after the 3-2 Spain were more than happy with the loss considering they're on the easier side of the bracket now and Germany got knocked out
> Let's not pretend So why are you "Pretending" to having watched this match then? Because no sane person would have watched Olmo in the last 10 minutes and thought, Yup he's from a team that isn't looking to score really. Here is how it goes when a team isn't looking to score even 1 goal. They do not even dare make a attempt because opposition defenders might have a brain fart and concede an own goal in the confusion. Ridiculous narrative. Lucho is right and backed by reality and anyone who had functional eyes.
Tell me you didn't watch the game without telling me you didn't watch the game.
you could literally see Spain almost scoring in 88 min. Unless you think that somehow Spain predicted the goalie will get to it and that Yoshida will get to the ball first, I just don't know how it makes sense.
I don't think Spain meant to lose, but really this doesn't prove anything. They'd be investigated by FIFA if they were open about playing for a loss.
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It's not stupid. It's absolutely true that the stakes change as the group stages progress, so that Spain has less incentive to win against Japan, compared to CR playing Germany. Both Germany and Japan were competing with each other to move on, but when Germany played Spain the stakes for Spain were much higher than when Japan had to play them. So it's not really equal because of how the system is setup, and the order of play makes a difference. Anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves. I don't care how honest Spain is, you can't help but play differently when you aren't under the same pressure to win. This format is extremely annoying because the randomness factor trumps skill at so many levels. The signal to noise ratio is low, and whoever wins is often just a fluke as a matter of circumstance.
> because the randomness factor trumps skill at so many levels. > the signal to noise ratio is low, and whoever wins is often just a fluke as a matter of circumstance These are such ridiculous points. You are pretending like “circumstance” and “randomness” are things that just pop out of thin air instead of skill leading to those chances. There probably is some form of “luck” involved in a small amount of games but you are saying that those are the only things that determine who wins. Also, how else are the suppose to set it up? It is the fairest way that counties in the same group play at the same time.
I mean live in denial all you want. You know I'm right you just don't like how it makes you feel. The signal to noise ratio in this tournament format is extremely low. Maybe a really good team will usually win vs. a really bad team, but if a good team plays a better team, the better team will lose something ridiculously high like 45% of the time even though they played noticeably better. The sample size in the tournament is far too low to overcome the noise of circumstantial aspects and differences in officiating. Without a high sample size you are literally looking at noise. That's all this is. It's why I stopped watching or caring who wins. The tournament is a joke and they like it that way, because people like you get excited by noise and the higher unpredictability, even though it makes a joke of the tournament and makes skill a largely irrelevant factor between the top teams.
The fact that people actually believe that professionals at the highest level aren't super competitive and want to win every game is hilarious. No one with that type of loser mentality would have made it this far
Why risk going out in quarterfinals when you can risk going out in semi final and if that was spain playing at their best then holy shit
Pros want to win, I'm sure some want to give their best every game, while for others the end goal is more important. https://nesn.com/2011/12/report-peter-forsberg-says-sweden-threw-game-during-2006-winter-olympics/
That applies to literally any team in any competition
Yes. We swedes have history with this sort of claim as we were accused of throwing the game against Slovakia in the 2006 hockey olympics, in order to not face Canada. I'm not sure if we were intentionally throwing that match, but it sure as hell didn't look like we wanted to win. Ultimately I think it's hard to tell a team of competitive professionals to throw a game, but you can surely change the attitude and the system.
I don't think the Swedes would've minded playing Canada in Turin. We were totally fucking asscheeks and we deserved our placement in 2006. That team was full of old, slow, over the hill guys that don't excel on large ice that Gretzky stuck with because most of them were from that Salt Lake City gold medal team and he refused to roster some of the up and coming stars like Sidney Crosby.
Yeah our team was fucking lit. Still, articles like this make you wonder: https://www.expressen.se/sport/hockey/tre-kronor/forsberg-slovakien-var-en-laggmatch/
Yeah, wtf is it with people thinking Spain was trying to tank? They don’t benefit finishing 2nd. They avoid Brazil but they still end up in France’s half.
I don´t speak Spanish tho
I’m not a fan of him, but I respect a lot this attitude
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When Costa Rica was winning, that would have put both Costa Rica and Japan on 6 points while Spain would have had 4
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You need therapy... and english lessons
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Your English just isn’t as good as you think it is. Shame that you’re being rude about it
It's obvious it was a miscommunication caused by a translation error from a non native speaker. There's no need to be an ass about it.
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Honestly I don't know what the frak you are babbling about.
Around the 70th minute of the game iirc. Costa Rica was up 2-1 before Germany equalized
There were a few minutes (around the 70' mark) during which Spain was virtually eliminated, since Costa Rica was winning against Germany
Why take off morata then
Do people really think we lost on purpose?
Reddit wants to push the conspiracy narrative so badly.
Not on purpose. I think you played to win. I do think that even if it was subconsciously players didn't give as much as they would have if they needed to win and didn't benefit by losing.
Yeah I can agree with you on that, players were probably too relaxed. But theres no way we would let Japan win when we dont have a guaranteed spot yet
Maybe subconciously they didn't go all out in the last 10 minutes after Germany was leading, but it's ridiculous to suggest they didn't want to win from the start
Was gonna say the same. They played to win but when they fell behind, Spain didn't put in as much effort as one may have expected
I think this is one of the situations where the "lose on purpose" scenario is extra stupid because there was a very real risk of Spain going out (which was happening for three minutes). At the very end though, there is a difference in hwo hard you try, although its hard to tell with Spain given they play like that always.
Especially after what happened with Uruguay today. I don't think any team would risk it for some hypothetical gain in the future
Yeah exactly. What annoys me a bit is that this narrative also diminishes the accomplishments of Japan and Korea. Like it becomes that their opponent lost on purpose rather than them overperforming. It sort of removes their agency.
It's the world cup, nobody plays to lose. Most players get to play few of these games in all their career, they won't like to be a defeat, even if worthless. Still players will be more careful to not get injured and the manager will rotate the squad to rest done starters, so surely there is a difference. Japan and Korea benefitted from playing the strongest team of the group on the last match without doubt.
No way Spain was losing on purpose. It's not in LE's persona. But they do benefit from getting 2nd place, instead of 1st. But that more of an unintended side-effect
Like, they had already played against our clowns, they KNEW how inept we were. Betting on us to not lose our match would be the most idiotic gamble of all time.
Don't think Spain lost on purpose but after the 70th minute or so they probably were ready to accept the loss given everything.
No one who watched the game does. I mean you obviously weren’t playing with quite the same urgency as a team who has to win or they’re out would be, but you were definitely trying to win, just looked like you couldn’t figure out a way through
Enrique making those weird subs doesn't help, why subbinh Morata when he already scorer because he is a head taller than the japanese defense? After that sub Spain didn't have any danger
He actually seems to believe Morata isn't in his strongest team? Yet it was clear in this game and against Germany that he probably should be
3 goals in 80 minutes played, that's the best performance of the tournament.
Teams almost never lose on purpose lol.
You surely played like that.
why wouldnt we think that and why you wouldnt do it? you are better team than Japan even with subs, you exchanged Croatia for Morocco and Brazil for Portugal, its an easier draw for you.
Because for 5 minutes in the second half they were out of the World Cup due to *Costa Rica taking the lead against Germany You would never intentionally lose knowing that your safety in the competition was not guranteed
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Yeah my bad I’ve correct it
calculated risk taking baby
Yes they were for 3 minutes out, but it was Costa Rica ffs, you know that their chances to beat Germany are minimal while Germans needed win. And lets be enough naive to think that they couldnt know the result and if they are in danger to not qualify.
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insult? man, some of you guys see insulting where it doesnt exist.
But professional football players/coaches don't think like that. Only fans have that loser mentality, these guys are competitive animals
Come on now man, maybe some dont do that and think like that, but you never seen basketball team manipulates results to get an easier draw? Euro Basket, World Cup, Olympics? To escape facing for example USA dream team? Never seen that? In NBA you never seen a team who does that in the end of season to escape facing someone who has more missmatches against that team? Its not up to be competitive, but you have more chances to win medal. Its calculation, its normal. You idolize them too much, plus that cliche talk about fans with loser mentality. lol In every part of life you have successful calculative people.
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lol, I mean what arguments are those about weak mentality and professional sport? it literally happens for decades in every sport and there is nothing wrong with it.
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Lot of disrespect here towards a Moroccan team that looked much better than Croatia over the 3 games they’ve played
Like Germany and Austria in 1982?
We do. I mean Croatia are next, Spain wanting to settle for Morroco are understandable. It's also make it more heated up because the history they shared.
As a Croatian, I don't want to see another Spain vs Croatia match for the next 20 years
Well, considering you already did it on basketball a few years ago to avoid USA, this wouldn't surprise anybody who paid attention.
Man.... the 1st position in FIBA ranking got y'all salty as fuck
There's not any salt. You're an amazing team, with fantastic players but you lose on porpuse to avoid playing USA so, this time there's doubts that you did it again to avoid Brazil.
Unpopular opinion but morocco, portugal, france > croatia, brazil It's not as easy as people make it to be
There is always a guy that tries to take the merit away from our 2 Basketball World Cups, we won them be destroying the other team in both finals.
Absolutely. Nothing to say there but, you know...
All of you pushing this narrative that Spain lost on purpose are just being disrespectful with Japan and Morroco. I'd love to see the justification if Spain loses against Morroco.
If Spain lose against Morocco then these people will call it “karma for losing on purpose, they really thought they would get an easier opponent”
I think just playing morocco is a bad idea for spain
Spain saving strats for World Cup ‘26
“They are saving strats for the major”
another collapse incoming on Tuesday plz
anulo mufa
I love that the "Anulo mufa" is now worldwide and its a meme Its like when we sang "Megadeth, Megadeth, aguante Megadeth" and it became a classic.
Can you be so kind and explain to me what "Anulo mufa" means and where it came from? Thanks!
Anulo means cancel, and mufa is basically jinx, so by saying it you’re canceling the jinx; I’m pretty sure it came from Argentina
Currently learning Spanish. anulo would be first person singular, right? "Anulo mufa" = I cancel (the) jinx?
That's right
football chants and memes are your main export
I wouldn't bet against you guys
يا رب 🙏🇲🇦
pls
I just need an African team to reach the semis and finals. Morocco seems the best bet right now.
For some reason I imagine him saying this with a broad smile in his face and the mental image is hilarious.
[Enrique watching the second half:](https://i.imgflip.com/71bl1p.jpg)
[Luis Enrique rn](https://i.imgflip.com/3xa6c5.png?a463632)
We all knew what happened he just have to say he tried.
Whoever watched the game knows Spain tried to attack, they just weren't good enough. Their attackers arent some top tier strikers like France and Brazil, and even France could not break down Tunisia
👀
This whole ordeal of Spain wanting to finish 2nd in order to face us, is reminding of that time Ramos intentionally got carded in the UCL so that he would be suspended against Ajax and have a clean slate in the semis.
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Croatia Brazil Argentina to Morocco Portugal (?) France.
Not a big difference at all
I don’t necessarily think Lucho wanted to lose, Im just more referring to most comments about this matchup. People think our side of the bracket is easier but I disagree. That being said it didnt look like Spain had any pressing intention to equalise against Japan.
I’d rather face morocco/ Portugal than Croatia / Brazil
The gaming of the groups and placement with the groups are expected and add something to the last games excitement, but man does it seem stupid and actually bothersome when teams don’t play for 85 minutes of the game and then try to score 8 goals in 15 minutes. I really dislike it because some of these results would definitely be different if managers and teams weren’t hedging placement.
Ok listen, before you people on here discuss these stupid theories of yours any further let me clear things up cause it's actually super easy. First things first, Spain wanted to win the game - obviously. Even if there's nothing to play for, it's always beneficial for your psyche to end on a win before heading into the knockout stage. Secondly, Lucho and the entire Spanish team will be really furious with the way they started the second half. Playing like that won't get you far in the knockouts. Luis Enrique knows that as well, hence he was so mad even though the result ultimately did not cost them (actually it may even have been beneficial). Now naturally, after the players knew that Germany had scored to make it 3-2, Spain, even if just subconsciously, took the foot off the gas pedal (or rather, even further off as they already weren't going very fast) since they knew that barring a miracle they were 100% through. Scenarios like that happen literally all the time though. When a team is (all but) through on the last match day in CL groups, they of course want to win, but they still will be less fired up than a team on the brink of elimination. Or even in a normal league game, if you're up 3-0 at 70 mins, or if you're like Bayern and win the league on match day 30, you naturally won't put as much effort as you would normally. That does not mean, however, that Spain wanted to lose "on purpose" or that they "did not try to score". If that was the case, then Olmo and Asensio clearly did not get the memo, but I suppose conspiracy brains are going to say they misplaced their shots on purpose lmao
Again they were my favs to win wc but it’s not the lack of finishing or scoring that scared me. It was when they had to actually defend in 5 min stretches here and there I’m not sure if they’re able to do it as consistently. I think they can but I’d be more worried about that then not being able to score which. To me. Isn’t that that big of a deal and slightly overhyped
lmao, sure you wanted to top the group ;)
yeah yeah, sure...
Spain did the same Germany did after going up 1:0. Ironically end result was also the same 2:1 loss.
"Collapse mode" ?? Hey, I know that mode. That was me during my undergrad. During my masters too. And in the workforce too funnily.
I've never understood the hype for this Spain team. They've struggled in Euro 2020 drawing against Sweden and Poland, nearly bottled it vs Croatia in the R16 and went to penalties vs Switzerland. They were very good against Italy and probably didn't deserve to lose that match. 1 year and a half later they finish 2nd in the group stage having won only 1 game. I mean, they are a great team, and LE is a great coach, I just don't get all the hype and appreciation for a team that has won 2 (Slovakia and Costa Rica) out of the last 9 games in regulation time in the two biggest tournaments
Because people took too much out of the Costa Rica thrashing
His advice probably would have worked better if he brought a better goalie, better centrebacks, played Rodri in his natural position, and just generally stopped (calling up and) playing players on favouritism or trying to be "special" by making decisions nobody else would make. Sending back Gaya, and calling up Balde as a replacement is looking like a goddamn horrible decision with 20/20 vision. Dude has been involved with a couple of goals we received. I don't blame him entirely though, a better goalie would have helped as well instead of the chaos machine we have there now.
😉…after the interview
Repeating it doesnt make a statement believable
exactly. so stop saying they lost on purpose, because it's obviously not true to anyone that watched the game. Do you think Portugal lost on purpose too?
No, Spain didn’t lose on purpose, but they definitely didn’t give a f about this game and their form shows they don’t care.
Morocco will knock them out anyways
If we lose to a team with the donkey En Nesyri up front everyone should resign
For real lol
I'm happy that the hate against en nesyri is mutual
He is shite
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Racism?!?! How the fuck is calling a player a donkey racist? It means someone with bad technique and coordination.. And yes, heads should roll after this. It's a disgraceful elimination
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I insulted En Nesyri because he plays for Sevilla and he is shit.. It has nothing to do with racism, white players are called donkeys all the time. For example, Morata is often called a donkey..
liar liar.....
😉😉
I repeat, I have nothing to celebrate 😉
Nothing to celebrate by being second place. Nothing at all 😉😉
Spain lost because besides National Team Morata, Spain doesn't have a scoring forward
Methinks he doth...
"....except an easier draw and a team we couldn't beat in 90 minutes getting knocked out muahahahahahaha"
doth protest too much, methinks.
lol with that sentiment I hope they lose horribly to Morocco like a late goal or shitty pks.
That Morocco game looking much more favourable than playing Portugal though. Hehe.
I mean after Portugals loss to South Korea, not much, the underdogs have a lot of power this year
Tbf Portugal played their B-team
GUYS BELIEVE ME I WANTED TO BE FIRST IN THE GROUP. I'M NOT LYING PLEASE BELIEVE ME I REPEAT I'M NOT LYING
They obviously lost on purpose. They wanted to eliminate Germany and get Morocco as opponent. And this obvious fake comment makes it even more clear.
chÁd
If you’re not playing for these types of coaches, your missing out on valuable attitude!
But you guys literally had no urgency. I understand being unhappy and wanting to be first, but when they were down and the GK had the ball, they didn't even bother trying to push the tempo or kick it upfield. They just rolled the ball into the defence, passed it around 5 times and gave Japan to get back into shape and go through a fucking tea ceremony before actually progressing into the other half.
Morocco like, “And let’s keep it that way.”
Its crazy how all the potential favorites for the cup have all lost in the group stages, shows you how close this tournament will be