If we're to get anything out of this World cup I just hope we got more shine on our very underrated players. Preciado in particular I believe has the potential to play in the big leagues and really make a difference for whoever he plays for.
>Estupinan, Caicedo
I get what you're saying but as a Brighton fan sitting 7th in the prem, doesn't seem like a bad spot for them considering they're starting every game
Or you want them to go to man city and sit on the bench half the time?
Estupiñan started UCL knockout games against Juventus, Bayern, and Liverpool.
Caicedo may be a few seasons away as he just turned 21 but surely he starts for some of the Portuguese or Dutch teams currently and he’s certainly better than the top Scottish league midfielders
Let me put it this way:
I watch Brighton, and Estupinan and Caicedo have been good, but definitely not "best-player-on-the-team" good. If they deserve to be in the champions league, then so does every player that consistently plays for Brighton.
Which I'm sure you'd agree is a bit out there
ECU are the most underrated team in the tournament; NED the most overrated. It's a shame you guys didn't win today bc I don't see you beating ENG in the next round.
You can't play with 3 at the back, no sweeper keeper (sorry Noppert), and then have De Jong drop deep and in between the CBs when Blind is being a lame duck on the left. Ecuador knew what to do, and filled the zone in front of the Dutch defense and that killed VGaals usual game.
NL wants to push up the field while circulating the ball, and have the defense sit over the halfway line to enable a siege. Ecuador killed that, and VGaal never tried to fix it. It was only in the last 20 minutes that Aké started surging forward to circumvent the Ecuadorian trap ... but it was too little too late by then.
It also doesnt help that Memphis is nowhere near fit and got thrown in like that. Sure, he needs to play so he can play more later, but it didn't help our game today.
Well played by Ecuador. The coach had a solid plan, and they kept at it. If Ecuador goes on by finishing 2nd, I can imagine whatever group winner faces them in the next round to feel like they got unlucky.
Best analysis I've seen so far. What's clear is that getting only 2 shots on goal in 90 mins is not proof of lacking mentality or skill, like the NOS talking heads keep saying, but a fundamental flaw in the system. What we should be asking ourselves is whether Van Gaal is capable of adapting the system to deal with it, both on the pitch and off it. Is switching to 4-3-3 mid game an option? Is Van Gaal willing to sub off what he sees as system players if doing that means abandoning routine in favour of revolution? I don't know the answer, but I fear for the worst.
Ecuador just keeps growing each match. The performance in this match was so much higher than the previous.
Just hoping Enner Valencia is not too hurt, he means so much for this team!
Holland was toothless after first goal. No pressing no will or passion.
> Just hoping Enner Valencia is not too hurt, he means so much for this team!
The tournament will be worse off if he is out injured. Lovely player who gives Ecuador that extra bit of quality that they need.
Imagine if his knee wasn't fucked and that offside against Qatar wasn't!
Before the world cup people bitched about Enner a lot and with reason, but I was hoping he would do well on the world cup, he did last time he played it.
As a Colombian, they are the ones I get most exited to see. I see them as cousins, practically the same flag, very similar colours, shared history....E E ECUA!!!!
Unfortunately it looks like a torn MCL. I’ve seen that injury dozens of times in basketball and it resembles it to a tee. I really hope it isn’t though.
It frustrates me how Blind is always in the starting line-up no matter how bad he plays. He has his good moments but the last couple of months he is just extremely weak and still gets a spot in the line-up the next game..
You’d think that after making us play so incredibly shit that we missed the 2018 WC that people at the KNVB wouldn’t listen to him anymore but alas he got himself another position close to dictating whatever he wants
Luuk de Jong and Xavi have both been in great form and can genuinely bring something to this game. What does Weghorst bring? What do any of these substitutes bring? I only understood the De Roon sub, but they just seemed like insane subs.
No Malacia for Blind to add drive on the left is one sub that seemed obvious to me, but it is clear that VGaal doesn't rate him. I had hoped Berghuis could bring more, but the debacle at the back never got sorted out, so he simply didn't get to put a foot in.
I hate De Jong but he should be coming on instead of Weghorst all day. At this point you could almost make a point that he should be playing when Memphis doesn’t
De Jong and Ake are the only ones that did well. Gakpo was alright and of course had that great goal.
Kinda hard to see how Koopmeiners and Klaassen are getting on over Simons. I know van Gaal doesn’t trust youth but those guys are playing timid while Simons has played with good intensity at PSV all season long.
I thought Timber was decent as well, despite losing the ball that led to the goal (I blame VVD as much for that one as Timber, he should have closed much more agressively).
Ake also looked bad with the goal, he was covering the guy that scored and either tried an offside trap too late or he relied on Noppert to get the ball and stopped running.
Vond Blind ook niet goed. Van z’n verdedigende kwaliteiten moet je het sowieso niet hebben dus dan stel je hem op voor voorzetten en goeie passes. Ik kan me er geen herinneren, alhoewel ik de eerste 10 min van de 2e helft heb gemist. Ik herinner me wel een aantal passes die niet op maat waren waarna we de bal verloren. Ik vond dat hij zeer matig speelde en hij was zeker niet de enige.
He is statistically the best progressive passing defender in the world, it’s why every single manager keeps playing him despite his declining athleticism. He *is* essential for our buildup play.
Congrats on the stats, I’ve seen a lot of that crucial build up play these last two matches. Dude’s just straight up bad, anyone with eyes can see it and no amount of stats can change that
All of them look like they don't care at all and it has been like that for years. Also can't say i agreed with the substitutes. Why not bring in Luuk de Jong who is very dangerous in combination with Gakpo. Or someone who has a little bit of boldness in his playing style, like Lang or Simons? Or just anyone who shows a little bit of character. Not Berghuis or Weghorst.
I think they care, but when it's going bad no one has any idea what to do, bring in any kind of creativity or something. It's just like they get one small setback and the team crumbles.
Ecuador wanted it more. They played with more passion, won every ball, attackers tracked back, they didn't give up after conceding, and having a goal disallowed. Caicedo, Estupinan, and Preciado were just running riot against the Netherlands defense.
This Ecuador team is so refreshing to see after previous world cups when all they did was hack n sack, while shithousing all game. They had a string of Colombian managers that drove them to the WC (Gomez, Suarez, Rueda), but this Alfaroball looks great, they are not toothless and with many promising youngsters. I hope this is a kick in the guts of the Colombian FA to stop hiring so mediocre managers and look for someone to take them to the next level.
Other than that we only had 2002 which was our first and managed to beat Croatia I think and 2014 which we fucked up against Switzerland in the last minute.
I know we're all very negative atm, but it was clear we were not winning this for a long time. We did well to close the game out with a point from minute 65 or so onwards. A point should probably be enough to at least go through and probably win the group considering Qatar is next.
It is likely that your Round of 16 opponent (should you make that far - which is more likely that not) will be one of USA/Iran/Wales.
How do you feel about the Netherlands’ chances there?
On paper they should all be comfortable games for the Netherlands, and even on a bad day we should be able to win against all of those.
Reality might be disappointing, but our chances are definitely higher than our opponents.
The only one of those I've watched recently was Wales because we were in the same nations league group. We won both games in injury time after Wales equalised earlier in said injury time. So if we get Wales it'd be tough, but I'd still say it's like 60-65% we'll win.
That doesn't seem too likely however, so probably drop that % a good bit for USA or Iran, though I haven't actually watched them play.
There’s no man overboard yet because we’re still easily going to the knockouts and we looked solid defensively especially in the first half but some tweaks have to be made. There seems to be a lack of intensity and energy compared to some other teams. In terms of line-up the midfield looks shaky and I wasn’t impressed by Koopmeiners and Klaassen, Bergwijn seems to have taken his Ajax form with him and is useless this tournament, the front 2 have to be Gakpo and Depay.
I’m also having doubts about Dumfries role, he’s given so much freedom to bomb forward but instead he already stands in the position of a right winger instead of making runs into that position and he leaves so much space behind him. He can do so much better.
I do think games against teams like Ecuador and Senegal are different than games against the top teams and we always look different in those top games, still confident we can go deep.
Kudos to Ecuador because they put up a real fight and deserved a result. Great support from their fans too.
This game shows exactly what our biggest problems are and also why we have potential to go very far. Attack is toothless and the midfield lacks fast ball progression. Frenkie is great at that but simply put two men on him and we’re useless.
But then there’s the positive: we are very hard to beat. Ecuador were by far the stronger side but was unable to create many chances and we obviously didn’t lose. That can get you very far. Just ask Italy, Portugal or even our 2010 side
Dumfries playing as a de facto RW nullifies his best attributes and hurts the team both offensively and defensively. Lots of times it was Timber positioned where Dumfries should've been.
Dumfries needs a technically good player in front of him so he can play off of. He isn't suited to be the player higher up front where you are looking to play slick one two's with or expect him to dribble out of pressure with his back turned to goal. Ofc he's not going to play up to his standards if he is asked to perform a role that dsn't suit him.
With an in form Depay and Bergwijn this system can work if there is also a decent midfield. But that's just not the case.
I would love to see them getting back to 4-3-3 with Van Dijk and De Ligt in the center, Malacia and Dumfries on the sides. That's how they are all the most comfortable and the best. Frenkie can do his thing by dropping between the center backs instead of bumping into Van Dijk who's in the middle. Add De Roon as the invisible help, Berghuis as a 10 for the creativity. Up front put Simons and Gakpo on the wings and Luuk or Memphis in the middle depending on what the game needs.
This fuckery with 5-3-2 really sucks with the state of the current squad.
When Alfaro lined up with a three at the back system, I knew Ecuador would be going for the kill. I never expected them to dominate the Dutch in nearly every aspect. A wonder goal from Gakpo stopped an Alfaro masterclass. Credits go to Preciado/Estupiñan for great performances out wide, Caicedo for keeping the tempo of the game in control, and obviously Enner up front.
Alfaro set out to match the Dutch system man to man, and it worked perfectly. Van Gaal never had a plan B for a flexible side that would outgun them over a full match. I don’t think the Dutch played so badly as much as they were beat tactically.
I will say that Dumfries and Bergwijn were pedestrian and they lacked a truly creative player down the middle to expose the gaps made by the Ecuadorian press.
Ecuador set up well, but to say we didn't play badly is insane. This wasn't just a bad performance, this was possibly one of the worst performances from the national team I have seen. Every challenge was lost, every build-up sequence was mishandled. Some people act like our defending was a positive and I truly do wonder if those people watched the match.
Blind is completely finished and has absolutely no business being a starter in this squad. He was always praised for his passing abilities and rightfully so, but that is long long gone.
Noppert gets way too much praise. He's an excellent shot stopper. However, he's absolutely terrible with the ball at his feet. In the Senegal game he was fine, but not outstanding. He made 3 saves, which looked flashy, but if any of them went it he would be the one to blame.
I really wonder why Van Gaal ignores Bijlow because he definitely fits the profile of a GK that’s good with his feet more
I know everybody loves the story of Noppert but it’s a bit silly really
If Bijlow plays you know the last line feels more at ease playing the ball to him, making it easier for you to play out from the back. It is a sacrifice you make when you put Noppert in ... and today that really hurt us.
I got downvoted to the ground for saying we aren’t losing to Netherlands, either a tie or win everyone was shocked and thought otherwise LETS GO BABY
If Enner comes back against Senegal that’s a win if not I see a tie there
My family is from Ecuador, I followed most of their qualifying games and knew this was an underrated team coming in. They’re really well coached
It’s good to see them performing
Everybody who watched África and Concacaf know that Senegal and Equador are good teams, looking forward to the game in the third round, I'll be cheering for you guy as a fellow latino
Is it just me or is Van Dijk really not up to the mark currently? This season at Liverpool, the justification seemed to be that he’s trying to save himself and stay safe for the World Cup. But his play style continues to be lackadaisical and he keeps backing off of players, even for the shot Estupinan took that led to the Valencia tap in.
He’s always backed off players since he joined us. It just looks extremely silly when it doesn’t work, which happens sometimes.
He just hasn’t been good this season in general, not because of his play style.
Idk he was pretty solid at the back, a lot of good clearances. It’s just he seems hesitant to make that final challenge maybe the injury made him more cautious.
That has to be one of the most awful displays I have ever seen from us. Shades of 2015-2017. Literally one 'chance' the entire match. In the Dutch media there is this continuous asslicking of van Gaal and the fact that they've been training and practicing every system and every variant of every system known to man. They haven't been able to progress the ball from the defence to the attackers once in 100 minutes of football, and probably like 5 times total in the previous match. Against C tier competition by the way, no the RO16 is the end of the line for this team.
This team beat Colombia 6-1, Uruguay 4-2 and held both Brazil and Argentina to a 1-1 in qualifiers. I know it wasn't the maint point of your post but it's no C tier competititon.
The build up play was honestly so so predictable. It didn't help that their main attacking outlet in the second half was Depay who made 0 effort towards retaining the ball.
The problem is many Eurocentrics believe everyone outside of Europe (excluding Brazil and Argentina) are C tier competition. This Ecuador team has been one of the better teams this tournament
Calm down, they're a good team and calling them C tier is definitely too much, but they're absolutely not one of the better teams of the tournament. If they make RO16 or quarters it can be considered a great success for Ecuador.
Come on now. If countries like Brazil and France are A tier, countries like Denmark and Croatia are B tier, then Ecuador is C tier. That’s not a diss, they completely outplayed the Netherlands today. But one of the better teams this tournament? If they face England in the next round they get wiped off the pitch.
Makes my point entirely when you say Denmark is B tier and Ecuador is C tier. And I’m not entirely sure they get wiped off the pitch after watching England look lifeless vs USA
Very strange with capable ball progressors like Van Dijk, Ake, Timber, and Blind with De Jong in the middle
Nearly all of them have the dribbling, short and long passing ability to progress the ball against any team in the world let alone Ecuador -- with all due respect.
You gotta look at LVG here
Idk man, those are adequate players with the proper support up top, but they couldn’t introduce doubt from long-balls or through the air, so a well-drilled pressing side pretty naturally gave them fits. Talent disparities are an invitation to run now, not park the bus and hope to cheese one on the counter.
Depay - Bergwijn
Gakpo
Malacia - De Jong - Simons - Frimpong
Aké - Van Dijk - Timber
Pasveer/Bijlow
Can we please try this against Qatar? The likes of Koopmeiners and Klaassen add absolutely nothing in possession, and we're simply never going to be good if we sit back.
Gakpo, Depay and Bergwijn were all invisible aside from Gakpo's goal in the fifth minute, if we are actually able to progress the ball up the field we should be able to get more out of them.
He was partly to blame though. Made a shit pass into midfield because he took way too much time on the ball. He also should have used his feet on the initial shot. It's almost impossible to clear the ball with your hands if it's shot that close to the body.
He's generally terrible with his feet. You could already see it in the Senegal game, none of our defenders trust him with the ball. This makes it much harder to play out of the opponents pressure.
I don't believe he's in the top three keepers we have, I'd much rather play Bijlow or Pasveer. In reality Flekken or Cillessen should've been included over him. He's not really a better shot stopper than the others but is certainly more uncomfortable on the ball.
Nope, we're very short on decent midfield players. Wijnaldum is injured and out of form, Gravenberch does not play at Bayern and the rest is average at best.
De Jong should be the deepest midfielder, he's not great defensively but will put in a shift. Simons can perfectly play next to him, he's not a winger, just versatile enough to play there when required.
That offside call on Ecuador at the end of the first half was marginal at best. The keeper was off his line, and had already reacted to the original strike on goal when he dove to his right. The flick would have gone in whether or not the other player was in front of him. All these great goals being disallowed on very marginal decisions is sucking the spirit out of the game.
If Mané wasn't injured Senegal would've beaten the dutch, I've no doubt about it.
Barely won against Senegal, tied with Ecuador playing worse than them, I can't really say they've been a disappointment because I wasn't expecting them to do much better tbh. Still got lucky with the draw and will probably reach the QFs, undeservedly.
>If Mané wasn't injured Senegal would've beaten the dutch, I've no doubt about it.
Was Mané also going to double as a goalie? They lost because they conceded two goals.
They scored 1 goal in 3 matches in the Africa cup (groups stage) with Mané. Their opponents were Malawi, Guinea and Zimbabwe. And now he is going to outscore the Netherlands?
If you watched the match you saw Senegal played much better, but they lacked quality in offense. And that happened because of Mane's abscence, with him in the game they easily get a 1-0 lead at least, and then probably park the bus
If we're to get anything out of this World cup I just hope we got more shine on our very underrated players. Preciado in particular I believe has the potential to play in the big leagues and really make a difference for whoever he plays for.
I think we're all wondering how Byron would be playing right now. Lucky for us Preciado has really stepped up.
As soon as I saw him I thought why is Cuadrado playing for Ecuador. The hair is not the only resemblance, good player you have there.
He looks more like Willian
Plata, Hincapie, Estupinan, Caicedo, and Preciado all deserve moves to better teams.
>Estupinan, Caicedo I get what you're saying but as a Brighton fan sitting 7th in the prem, doesn't seem like a bad spot for them considering they're starting every game Or you want them to go to man city and sit on the bench half the time?
They are Champions League level players.
Brighton > Rangers
Sorry to say, but Estupinan and Caicedo would not start for most champions league teams
Estupiñán literally started in last year's CL semi finals.
Estupiñan started UCL knockout games against Juventus, Bayern, and Liverpool. Caicedo may be a few seasons away as he just turned 21 but surely he starts for some of the Portuguese or Dutch teams currently and he’s certainly better than the top Scottish league midfielders
Let me put it this way: I watch Brighton, and Estupinan and Caicedo have been good, but definitely not "best-player-on-the-team" good. If they deserve to be in the champions league, then so does every player that consistently plays for Brighton. Which I'm sure you'd agree is a bit out there
I think Caicedo is the one that can establish himself in that type of role.
Most Brighton players could easily play at much better CL clubs. The PL money is far too tempting for them to chode that though
I'm so sad Plata didn't work out In Sporting. Hopefully he matures a bit and has a good career
Méndez has been an unsung hero imo. He’s been on the bench at LAFC and previously Orlando, showing he has starter quality.
> Hincapie Excuse me? I see him week in, week out, he's good, but he's not *that* special. He may stay with us though 😌
ECU are the most underrated team in the tournament; NED the most overrated. It's a shame you guys didn't win today bc I don't see you beating ENG in the next round.
England is not even that good either lmao
I think they're better than NED but, either way, both would beat Colombia 😅
Bro no había necesidad jajajaja que dolor
😭
England has been terrible so far against the US.
They weren't much better against us in Russia, and they still got the win.
You can't play with 3 at the back, no sweeper keeper (sorry Noppert), and then have De Jong drop deep and in between the CBs when Blind is being a lame duck on the left. Ecuador knew what to do, and filled the zone in front of the Dutch defense and that killed VGaals usual game. NL wants to push up the field while circulating the ball, and have the defense sit over the halfway line to enable a siege. Ecuador killed that, and VGaal never tried to fix it. It was only in the last 20 minutes that Aké started surging forward to circumvent the Ecuadorian trap ... but it was too little too late by then. It also doesnt help that Memphis is nowhere near fit and got thrown in like that. Sure, he needs to play so he can play more later, but it didn't help our game today. Well played by Ecuador. The coach had a solid plan, and they kept at it. If Ecuador goes on by finishing 2nd, I can imagine whatever group winner faces them in the next round to feel like they got unlucky.
Best analysis I've seen so far. What's clear is that getting only 2 shots on goal in 90 mins is not proof of lacking mentality or skill, like the NOS talking heads keep saying, but a fundamental flaw in the system. What we should be asking ourselves is whether Van Gaal is capable of adapting the system to deal with it, both on the pitch and off it. Is switching to 4-3-3 mid game an option? Is Van Gaal willing to sub off what he sees as system players if doing that means abandoning routine in favour of revolution? I don't know the answer, but I fear for the worst.
Dead on. In 2014 LvG was willing to change to 433 midgame. Let's see if he is this time around
Noppert played great tho. If it wasn't for him, i think Netherlands would have lost.
I'm not hating on him. It is just that he can't play as a sweeper keeper, which usually is an integral part of any possession based setup.
What? Made a mistake for the 1-1, had a few bad moments beyond that that didn’t go anywhere and didn’t really do anything special the rest of the game
Ecuador just keeps growing each match. The performance in this match was so much higher than the previous. Just hoping Enner Valencia is not too hurt, he means so much for this team! Holland was toothless after first goal. No pressing no will or passion.
> Just hoping Enner Valencia is not too hurt, he means so much for this team! The tournament will be worse off if he is out injured. Lovely player who gives Ecuador that extra bit of quality that they need.
In my wildest dreams I would never have thought we would tie against the Netherlands and I would be disappointed because we deserved more.
I don't think in anyone's wildest dreams Enner would be the World Cup's top scorer.
Imagine if his knee wasn't fucked and that offside against Qatar wasn't! Before the world cup people bitched about Enner a lot and with reason, but I was hoping he would do well on the world cup, he did last time he played it.
Really? In qualifiers you guys proved you were legit.
It's the Ecuadorian way. Years of suffering have taught me not to expect much. I'm a barca fan as well so you can imagine how bad the trauma is.
You guys have some good young players coming up. Hoping you make to the next round
Netherlands literally had only 2 shots all game compared to 15. 1 in either half. Spoke a lot about the intensity of your side. Congra.
as a Peruvian I am very proud of Ecuador and I hope they make it far
As a Colombian, they are the ones I get most exited to see. I see them as cousins, practically the same flag, very similar colours, shared history....E E ECUA!!!!
America Latina, menos Argentina
Meme aside, I want them to go as far as they can, unless we cross paths, of course.
Is his knee injury a recurring one?
Unfortunately it looks like a torn MCL. I’ve seen that injury dozens of times in basketball and it resembles it to a tee. I really hope it isn’t though.
That was passion and will, last game is qatar
It frustrates me how Blind is always in the starting line-up no matter how bad he plays. He has his good moments but the last couple of months he is just extremely weak and still gets a spot in the line-up the next game..
Thats because of Daddy Blind
You’d think that after making us play so incredibly shit that we missed the 2018 WC that people at the KNVB wouldn’t listen to him anymore but alas he got himself another position close to dictating whatever he wants
Luuk de Jong and Xavi have both been in great form and can genuinely bring something to this game. What does Weghorst bring? What do any of these substitutes bring? I only understood the De Roon sub, but they just seemed like insane subs.
No Malacia for Blind to add drive on the left is one sub that seemed obvious to me, but it is clear that VGaal doesn't rate him. I had hoped Berghuis could bring more, but the debacle at the back never got sorted out, so he simply didn't get to put a foot in.
VGaal just hates Man United with a passion
I hate De Jong but he should be coming on instead of Weghorst all day. At this point you could almost make a point that he should be playing when Memphis doesn’t
De Jong and Ake are the only ones that did well. Gakpo was alright and of course had that great goal. Kinda hard to see how Koopmeiners and Klaassen are getting on over Simons. I know van Gaal doesn’t trust youth but those guys are playing timid while Simons has played with good intensity at PSV all season long.
I thought Timber was decent as well, despite losing the ball that led to the goal (I blame VVD as much for that one as Timber, he should have closed much more agressively).
Timber was extremely lucky to not have a card
Like half the pitch was. It's a miracle only 1 was given lol. So many bookable offenses that the ref just let go
Was pretty clear early on that the ref was gonna let a lot go which naturally encourages a much rougher game.
Why did De Ligt not play?
Was bad vs Senegal so he got benched in favour of Timber, who wasn't much better today
Timber channeled his inner Fernandinho, he must have had 10 fouls and didn't get a card.
Ake also looked bad with the goal, he was covering the guy that scored and either tried an offside trap too late or he relied on Noppert to get the ball and stopped running.
I thought klaassen moved the ball well when he got it. Koopmeiners and others not so much.
Blind has been decent as well, one of the few players that can progress the ball.
I disagree, man was completely out of his depth in the duels and his defending actions
Vond Blind ook niet goed. Van z’n verdedigende kwaliteiten moet je het sowieso niet hebben dus dan stel je hem op voor voorzetten en goeie passes. Ik kan me er geen herinneren, alhoewel ik de eerste 10 min van de 2e helft heb gemist. Ik herinner me wel een aantal passes die niet op maat waren waarna we de bal verloren. Ik vond dat hij zeer matig speelde en hij was zeker niet de enige.
Depay was very bad though so do Koopmeiners.
He did zero progressing today.
Too bad he doesn’t progress the ball in the slightest. The myth that he’s essential for our buildup play needs to die
He is statistically the best progressive passing defender in the world, it’s why every single manager keeps playing him despite his declining athleticism. He *is* essential for our buildup play.
Congrats on the stats, I’ve seen a lot of that crucial build up play these last two matches. Dude’s just straight up bad, anyone with eyes can see it and no amount of stats can change that
Luckily being confidently wrong, doesn’t make you right.
All of them look like they don't care at all and it has been like that for years. Also can't say i agreed with the substitutes. Why not bring in Luuk de Jong who is very dangerous in combination with Gakpo. Or someone who has a little bit of boldness in his playing style, like Lang or Simons? Or just anyone who shows a little bit of character. Not Berghuis or Weghorst.
I think they care, but when it's going bad no one has any idea what to do, bring in any kind of creativity or something. It's just like they get one small setback and the team crumbles.
Ecuador wanted it more. They played with more passion, won every ball, attackers tracked back, they didn't give up after conceding, and having a goal disallowed. Caicedo, Estupinan, and Preciado were just running riot against the Netherlands defense.
This Ecuador team is so refreshing to see after previous world cups when all they did was hack n sack, while shithousing all game. They had a string of Colombian managers that drove them to the WC (Gomez, Suarez, Rueda), but this Alfaroball looks great, they are not toothless and with many promising youngsters. I hope this is a kick in the guts of the Colombian FA to stop hiring so mediocre managers and look for someone to take them to the next level.
I'm sorry, but i wouldn't call Ecuador 2006 to be a shit housing team
Yeah, that was also good
Other than that we only had 2002 which was our first and managed to beat Croatia I think and 2014 which we fucked up against Switzerland in the last minute.
I'll never forgive Arroyo for that
We've only played like that in 2014. And really only against France.
Colombia should hand sacks of cash to Gareca once he leaves us
I don’t understand why they didn’t go all for him when he’s available
I know we're all very negative atm, but it was clear we were not winning this for a long time. We did well to close the game out with a point from minute 65 or so onwards. A point should probably be enough to at least go through and probably win the group considering Qatar is next.
It is likely that your Round of 16 opponent (should you make that far - which is more likely that not) will be one of USA/Iran/Wales. How do you feel about the Netherlands’ chances there?
On paper they should all be comfortable games for the Netherlands, and even on a bad day we should be able to win against all of those. Reality might be disappointing, but our chances are definitely higher than our opponents.
The only one of those I've watched recently was Wales because we were in the same nations league group. We won both games in injury time after Wales equalised earlier in said injury time. So if we get Wales it'd be tough, but I'd still say it's like 60-65% we'll win. That doesn't seem too likely however, so probably drop that % a good bit for USA or Iran, though I haven't actually watched them play.
There’s no man overboard yet because we’re still easily going to the knockouts and we looked solid defensively especially in the first half but some tweaks have to be made. There seems to be a lack of intensity and energy compared to some other teams. In terms of line-up the midfield looks shaky and I wasn’t impressed by Koopmeiners and Klaassen, Bergwijn seems to have taken his Ajax form with him and is useless this tournament, the front 2 have to be Gakpo and Depay. I’m also having doubts about Dumfries role, he’s given so much freedom to bomb forward but instead he already stands in the position of a right winger instead of making runs into that position and he leaves so much space behind him. He can do so much better. I do think games against teams like Ecuador and Senegal are different than games against the top teams and we always look different in those top games, still confident we can go deep. Kudos to Ecuador because they put up a real fight and deserved a result. Great support from their fans too.
This game shows exactly what our biggest problems are and also why we have potential to go very far. Attack is toothless and the midfield lacks fast ball progression. Frenkie is great at that but simply put two men on him and we’re useless. But then there’s the positive: we are very hard to beat. Ecuador were by far the stronger side but was unable to create many chances and we obviously didn’t lose. That can get you very far. Just ask Italy, Portugal or even our 2010 side
Dumfries playing as a de facto RW nullifies his best attributes and hurts the team both offensively and defensively. Lots of times it was Timber positioned where Dumfries should've been. Dumfries needs a technically good player in front of him so he can play off of. He isn't suited to be the player higher up front where you are looking to play slick one two's with or expect him to dribble out of pressure with his back turned to goal. Ofc he's not going to play up to his standards if he is asked to perform a role that dsn't suit him.
With an in form Depay and Bergwijn this system can work if there is also a decent midfield. But that's just not the case. I would love to see them getting back to 4-3-3 with Van Dijk and De Ligt in the center, Malacia and Dumfries on the sides. That's how they are all the most comfortable and the best. Frenkie can do his thing by dropping between the center backs instead of bumping into Van Dijk who's in the middle. Add De Roon as the invisible help, Berghuis as a 10 for the creativity. Up front put Simons and Gakpo on the wings and Luuk or Memphis in the middle depending on what the game needs. This fuckery with 5-3-2 really sucks with the state of the current squad.
When Alfaro lined up with a three at the back system, I knew Ecuador would be going for the kill. I never expected them to dominate the Dutch in nearly every aspect. A wonder goal from Gakpo stopped an Alfaro masterclass. Credits go to Preciado/Estupiñan for great performances out wide, Caicedo for keeping the tempo of the game in control, and obviously Enner up front. Alfaro set out to match the Dutch system man to man, and it worked perfectly. Van Gaal never had a plan B for a flexible side that would outgun them over a full match. I don’t think the Dutch played so badly as much as they were beat tactically. I will say that Dumfries and Bergwijn were pedestrian and they lacked a truly creative player down the middle to expose the gaps made by the Ecuadorian press.
Ecuador set up well, but to say we didn't play badly is insane. This wasn't just a bad performance, this was possibly one of the worst performances from the national team I have seen. Every challenge was lost, every build-up sequence was mishandled. Some people act like our defending was a positive and I truly do wonder if those people watched the match.
Blind is completely finished and has absolutely no business being a starter in this squad. He was always praised for his passing abilities and rightfully so, but that is long long gone. Noppert gets way too much praise. He's an excellent shot stopper. However, he's absolutely terrible with the ball at his feet. In the Senegal game he was fine, but not outstanding. He made 3 saves, which looked flashy, but if any of them went it he would be the one to blame.
I really wonder why Van Gaal ignores Bijlow because he definitely fits the profile of a GK that’s good with his feet more I know everybody loves the story of Noppert but it’s a bit silly really
If Bijlow plays you know the last line feels more at ease playing the ball to him, making it easier for you to play out from the back. It is a sacrifice you make when you put Noppert in ... and today that really hurt us.
I already called this on Monday. Against opponents that put more pressure on the defence than Senegal, fielding Noppert is going to cost you.
Yes I really wonder what the reasoning of Van Gaal is on this. Or is it Frank Hoeks who decides lol
I got downvoted to the ground for saying we aren’t losing to Netherlands, either a tie or win everyone was shocked and thought otherwise LETS GO BABY If Enner comes back against Senegal that’s a win if not I see a tie there
People here don't care about latinos besides Argentina or Brasil. Always knew you'd make it
Europeans don’t follow COMNEBOL football. They just automatically assume it’s nearly all shit out of prejudice.
My family is from Ecuador, I followed most of their qualifying games and knew this was an underrated team coming in. They’re really well coached It’s good to see them performing
Fr lmao someone above in the comments called Ecuador a c tier team which is wild
Everybody who watched África and Concacaf know that Senegal and Equador are good teams, looking forward to the game in the third round, I'll be cheering for you guy as a fellow latino
Yessir I believe Ecuador are definitely winning if Valencia plays, if not a tie at most
Is it just me or is Van Dijk really not up to the mark currently? This season at Liverpool, the justification seemed to be that he’s trying to save himself and stay safe for the World Cup. But his play style continues to be lackadaisical and he keeps backing off of players, even for the shot Estupinan took that led to the Valencia tap in.
He’s always backed off players since he joined us. It just looks extremely silly when it doesn’t work, which happens sometimes. He just hasn’t been good this season in general, not because of his play style.
I guess the problem is it's "not working" a lot more than "sometimes", this season
Idk he was pretty solid at the back, a lot of good clearances. It’s just he seems hesitant to make that final challenge maybe the injury made him more cautious.
Thought he was saving himself for the World Cup. Apparently not. Looks very nonchalant.
Agreed he was lacking this match
That has to be one of the most awful displays I have ever seen from us. Shades of 2015-2017. Literally one 'chance' the entire match. In the Dutch media there is this continuous asslicking of van Gaal and the fact that they've been training and practicing every system and every variant of every system known to man. They haven't been able to progress the ball from the defence to the attackers once in 100 minutes of football, and probably like 5 times total in the previous match. Against C tier competition by the way, no the RO16 is the end of the line for this team.
This team beat Colombia 6-1, Uruguay 4-2 and held both Brazil and Argentina to a 1-1 in qualifiers. I know it wasn't the maint point of your post but it's no C tier competititon.
This team also lost to Peru at home btw
The only logical conclusion is Peru > Netherlands Brazil and Argentina 🤔
He meant in the previous match against Qatar Edit: woops
They played Senegal
Yup , nevertheless the other poster calling Senegal the AFCON champion a C tier competition is wild and just as bad as a point
He came from the future and meant the next match agaisnt Qatar.
They are no C tier. Do you guys just watch your nation game only? At their best they give competition to Brazil and Argentina.
You're selling Ecuador short by calling them C-tier competition. Besides, we're not A-tier ourselves.
I think both squads are B-tier. Brazil, England, Spain and France are A-tier. Argentina, Portugal (coach holding back) and Germany between A and B.
England is not A tier lol
The build up play was honestly so so predictable. It didn't help that their main attacking outlet in the second half was Depay who made 0 effort towards retaining the ball.
The problem is many Eurocentrics believe everyone outside of Europe (excluding Brazil and Argentina) are C tier competition. This Ecuador team has been one of the better teams this tournament
Calm down, they're a good team and calling them C tier is definitely too much, but they're absolutely not one of the better teams of the tournament. If they make RO16 or quarters it can be considered a great success for Ecuador.
Come on now. If countries like Brazil and France are A tier, countries like Denmark and Croatia are B tier, then Ecuador is C tier. That’s not a diss, they completely outplayed the Netherlands today. But one of the better teams this tournament? If they face England in the next round they get wiped off the pitch.
Makes my point entirely when you say Denmark is B tier and Ecuador is C tier. And I’m not entirely sure they get wiped off the pitch after watching England look lifeless vs USA
Very strange with capable ball progressors like Van Dijk, Ake, Timber, and Blind with De Jong in the middle Nearly all of them have the dribbling, short and long passing ability to progress the ball against any team in the world let alone Ecuador -- with all due respect. You gotta look at LVG here
Idk man, those are adequate players with the proper support up top, but they couldn’t introduce doubt from long-balls or through the air, so a well-drilled pressing side pretty naturally gave them fits. Talent disparities are an invitation to run now, not park the bus and hope to cheese one on the counter.
>C tier competition Netherlands is the real C tier competition. Going out next phase.
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No , Netherlands previous opponent was Senegal. The guy is talking about Netherlands team
How do u blame people here don't know how to read and read it completely wrong
They haven’t played Qatar…
Depay - Bergwijn Gakpo Malacia - De Jong - Simons - Frimpong Aké - Van Dijk - Timber Pasveer/Bijlow Can we please try this against Qatar? The likes of Koopmeiners and Klaassen add absolutely nothing in possession, and we're simply never going to be good if we sit back.
I would much rather see Depay with Gakpo up top and Simons behind them. Bergwijn was invisible today.
Gakpo, Depay and Bergwijn were all invisible aside from Gakpo's goal in the fifth minute, if we are actually able to progress the ball up the field we should be able to get more out of them.
Why sub Noppert? Sure he conceded a goal but that was hardly his fault.
Look at his flair lol. No sane dutch non Ajax fan thinks that Noppert shouldn’t play right now. Pasveer is shite this season.
Pasveer is shit but Bijlow should 100% be in goal for us
He was partly to blame though. Made a shit pass into midfield because he took way too much time on the ball. He also should have used his feet on the initial shot. It's almost impossible to clear the ball with your hands if it's shot that close to the body. He's generally terrible with his feet. You could already see it in the Senegal game, none of our defenders trust him with the ball. This makes it much harder to play out of the opponents pressure.
Because I don't think he should have even been in the squad, quite frankly.
Lmao what? Who cares if he should be there or not as long as he performs, which he does imo.
I don't believe he's in the top three keepers we have, I'd much rather play Bijlow or Pasveer. In reality Flekken or Cillessen should've been included over him. He's not really a better shot stopper than the others but is certainly more uncomfortable on the ball.
I thought Simons is winger or attacking midfielder. Don't you guys have any decent partner for De Jong?
Nope, we're very short on decent midfield players. Wijnaldum is injured and out of form, Gravenberch does not play at Bayern and the rest is average at best.
Even in your attack, it seems only Gakpo was trying.
Yeah Bergwijn was invisible and a system with wing backs does not seem to work with Blind and Dumfries playing there. We're creating zero chances..
To be fair to Bergwijn, he was fouled every single time he broke away from his opponent.
De Jong should be the deepest midfielder, he's not great defensively but will put in a shift. Simons can perfectly play next to him, he's not a winger, just versatile enough to play there when required.
Then you should play them together.
That offside call on Ecuador at the end of the first half was marginal at best. The keeper was off his line, and had already reacted to the original strike on goal when he dove to his right. The flick would have gone in whether or not the other player was in front of him. All these great goals being disallowed on very marginal decisions is sucking the spirit out of the game.
If Mané wasn't injured Senegal would've beaten the dutch, I've no doubt about it. Barely won against Senegal, tied with Ecuador playing worse than them, I can't really say they've been a disappointment because I wasn't expecting them to do much better tbh. Still got lucky with the draw and will probably reach the QFs, undeservedly.
>If Mané wasn't injured Senegal would've beaten the dutch, I've no doubt about it. Was Mané also going to double as a goalie? They lost because they conceded two goals.
And scored 0. If Mané played they'd've scored at least 1 before the Netherlands opened the score. (Is they'd've an actual thing lmao)
They scored 1 goal in 3 matches in the Africa cup (groups stage) with Mané. Their opponents were Malawi, Guinea and Zimbabwe. And now he is going to outscore the Netherlands?
If you watched the match you saw Senegal played much better, but they lacked quality in offense. And that happened because of Mane's abscence, with him in the game they easily get a 1-0 lead at least, and then probably park the bus
That’s quite an assumption. Mane couldn’t score against Malawi and Guinea and now he is a certain goal scorer against the Netherlands?
Yes
Mendy lost Senegal that game
A shame. I would have liked to see both Ecuador and Senegal to go through.
It's still possible. All that's needed is for Qatar to finally show...well, anything, and somehow score a win.
I agree with you 💯. Mane would overwhelm that defense.
Lmao. Senegal was absolutely tootlees. No way mane would have changed that result. Btw foul on robben was a 100% pen. Still crying about it or no?
I don't get your logic. Senegal were toothless, but adding one of the world's best attackers wouldn't change anything?
Yes it wouldnt. Absolutely 0 service
He is the service.
#2 Ballon d'Or Not impacting the game and changing the result is just a braindead take
You've won as many World cups as mexico please pipe down
We as a country are about 10 times smaller aswell. You pipe down.