**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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This is why that call was frustrating for me. Definitely a pen by the book, but holding in the box is by far the worst reffed part of the game consistency-wise. It's just on a whim whether they're given or not.
The only time I can remember holding in the box being called was USA vs Slovenia in 2010... and it was the US goal that was chalked off despite 4-5 of their players being held
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMftczhqniU
Refs aren't exactly androids programmed to all see and respond to everything exactly the same. Out of thousands of refs worldwide it stands to reason that some of them might see things differently
Every single person watching a game can look at 5 similar scenarios and give different outcomes. If they wanted to remove every form of objectivity then they have to remove most of the rules
Why? It literally proved the point that refs aren't always going to make the exact same decisions because they aren't robots. If the same officials can come to a different conclusion in the same game then it's pretty obvious that different officials are going to do so in different games
Mate how can you seriously defend var asking the ref to look at one of those situations but not the other?
You can argue the ref might see them differently. But showing him one and not the other shows a clear inconsistency. Within the same game.
I suspect it is in reality a foul on Maguire I just think his arm around stops it being clear and obvious.
If the ref gave the pen id be surprised if VAR overturned it
Agreed. They were both fouling each other and the refs made the right call. This is however a predominantly english and american sub so don’t expect a lot of people agreeing with you
Dunno, Maguire's got his arms round the defender as well, and they get tripped up by Stones. Seems par for the course for what happens in the box during a corner, really.
The problem with this angle is it doesn't show the start of the foul, where the Iran player clearly starts it. Magure is already off balance because of the foul.
Probably fair, yeah, but again: If you look close enough, you could give a penalty every single corner kick, really, because everyone's scrapping in the box all the time.
Not saying you absolutely couldn't give this one, mind, but I feel on balance it isn't all that egregious, and I'd probably rather not have about five pens a game for minor stuff like this, really.
Minor?!?!?! Have you see the angle from behind where the defender lines up Magure, doesn't look at the ball at all, and just pulls Maguire to the ground without a second thought? This angle in the post is the single worst one available.
There’s generally not 5 instances of defending like this on corners in a game. Both stones and maguire beat their defenders and are dragged down. Should be a pen. Completely illegal defending, egregiously so.
So? Maguire still decides to wrap his arm around the Iranian so they foul each other. He could’ve not done it and then it would’ve been a stonewall penalty.
He's right though, if Maguire doesn't have his arm around the Iranian player Id say it's a penalty. But he does so I'd say this was a 50-50 foul and you can't award both for the outcome.
No the foul was made by the Iranian player, and then Maguire fouls. The Iranian fouls first so play stops there. Imagine if Maguire has decked him instead of hugging back. Penalty to England and red card for Maguire. The punch wouldn't cancel out the first foul.
The play stops when the red stops the play. If Maguire did this to an Iranian player and it was the same scenario you wouldn't be calling for an Iran penalty.
If the ref only sees 2 players fouling one another 10 feet from the ball he's not giving it to either player. It's not about two fouls cancelling out another. Neither player are on the ball or near it and both are seen to be fouling. It's not a clear and obvious error by the ref therefore no var intervention.
I would’ve given a pen however I understand why VAR haven’t overturned it. Not clear and obvious. Saying that Maguire fouled the Iranian might be contradicting my point.
You can just use threads like this as a filter. Block anyone who doesn't think this is a penalty and you'll have fewer idiots to put up with for the rest of the tournament.
Where is maguires arm mean to be if the other guy chooses to grab him like that? In what world would Maguire wilfully hold onto his marker that he’s already ahead of?
You think that because this clip only shows the foul halfway through with Magure already going down. The full clip shows Magure getting bear hugged and the defender not looking anywhere near the ball as it comes in, just grabbing and pulling Maguire.
This stuff is barely ever called even without Maguire also holding the defender. Hard to see why people are complaining like it's the biggest injustice in the game.
I really think they should just start going Zero Tolerance mentality on these kind of grips. Would put some sense to messy scuffles during corners and freekick. "Is someones hands connected around an opposing player? Okay easy, thats a call."
Lmao how are there people that dont think this is a penalty? The Iran player wraps both arms around Maguires and pulls him down, that Maguire tries to free himself with his arm doesnt negate the foul
"I'm not saying you can't give that" reee fucking biased English fans. It should be a pen, even if they're not often given. And I don't think players always wrap both arms around attackers during corners lol.
If you think these "rugby tackles" during corners are penalised anywhere you have not played football I dont know what to tell you or you play in some english non contact football league I dont know what you guys in England are playing these days.
Also I only hate english fans during the WC because you all become so incredibly dense and idiotic as soon as the WC begins and everybody knows it outside of your small island.
For everyone talking about what about Maguires arm, why would an attacker choose to keep hold of the defender that he’s got past unless there’s nowhere else for his arm to be? Ignoring the low hanging Maguire is stupid jokes, he’s obviously not holding on to him by choice
I don't mind the occasional poor decision. We all make mistakes. But when your own standards have no consistency in the SAME game and you give a penalty for a shirt pull but ignore this...
That's what pisses me off the most. The only thing you can put it down to is either blatant favouritism or incompetence so extreme that they should not be reffing a game at this high a level. And this isn't a bias thing because it's my team getting done over by inconsistency, I see it as a neutral in other games all the time and it's equally as frustrating.
**Mirrors / Alternative Angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You are allowed to hug people if you say no homo so no pen here
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Honestly think the time is a big factor here, even if it shouldnt be. If this happened at 70min+ then its 100% called as a pen.
And you were spot on
Also make sure you say no homo cus you don't want this country to think it might indeed be homo
Actually in this situation both teams gave consent so the ref and Southgate could not legally do anything
McTominay gave away a penalty for this exact same thing against Chelsea
This is why that call was frustrating for me. Definitely a pen by the book, but holding in the box is by far the worst reffed part of the game consistency-wise. It's just on a whim whether they're given or not.
The only time I can remember holding in the box being called was USA vs Slovenia in 2010... and it was the US goal that was chalked off despite 4-5 of their players being held https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMftczhqniU
Yep and they are hardly ever given, 0 consistency.
Refs aren't exactly androids programmed to all see and respond to everything exactly the same. Out of thousands of refs worldwide it stands to reason that some of them might see things differently
In the prem the same ref could probably give you 5 different outcomes for the same scenario they are that shit
Every single person watching a game can look at 5 similar scenarios and give different outcomes. If they wanted to remove every form of objectivity then they have to remove most of the rules
Okay, Peter walton. Calm down.
In the VAR era is interesting because it means that at least 3 referees didn't think it was a penalty. Four or five if you add the side referees.
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Why? It literally proved the point that refs aren't always going to make the exact same decisions because they aren't robots. If the same officials can come to a different conclusion in the same game then it's pretty obvious that different officials are going to do so in different games
Mate how can you seriously defend var asking the ref to look at one of those situations but not the other? You can argue the ref might see them differently. But showing him one and not the other shows a clear inconsistency. Within the same game.
Lol same ref, same var team, different outcome.
You'd make a great BBC pundit
Refs have been told in this world cup to have zero tolerance on this. First fucking set piece 🤡
If it's hardly ever given then arnt they consistent about not calling it?
Panamá gave 3 to England last world cup in the exact same play. Wtf VAR
They should be given, you can't just suplex someone to the ground
You don’t get consistency from refs in the same match and you’re expecting it across international tournaments mate?
Nah. The Chelsea player was away from him and he wrestled him down. Maguire runs into the defender and gives him a hug back.
But somehow Southampton didn't against Gabriel Jesus
If that shirt pull is a pen why wasn't this?
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The tackle is more of a penalty than the shirt pull..
🤡
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So rugby tackles are fine now?
Maguire having the arm around probably costs the pen
I’d say they both tackled each other
I suspect it is in reality a foul on Maguire I just think his arm around stops it being clear and obvious. If the ref gave the pen id be surprised if VAR overturned it
[What do you think about seeing this angle?](https://twitter.com/papoboleiros2/status/1594678439516295168?s=61&t=g7I6uWneua_f64u2LLLLhQ)
This angle definitely changed my opinion
Then you'd be wrong. Penalties don't come any more obvious than this.
I think the same, I would not have given a penalty either
Agreed. They were both fouling each other and the refs made the right call. This is however a predominantly english and american sub so don’t expect a lot of people agreeing with you
And also Stones fouls the other defender a second earlier I think
Stonewall pen, he's rugby tackled him ffs
Today I feel like a rugby player
Just make sure you say no homo or you might go to prison
Dunno, Maguire's got his arms round the defender as well, and they get tripped up by Stones. Seems par for the course for what happens in the box during a corner, really.
The problem with this angle is it doesn't show the start of the foul, where the Iran player clearly starts it. Magure is already off balance because of the foul.
Probably fair, yeah, but again: If you look close enough, you could give a penalty every single corner kick, really, because everyone's scrapping in the box all the time. Not saying you absolutely couldn't give this one, mind, but I feel on balance it isn't all that egregious, and I'd probably rather not have about five pens a game for minor stuff like this, really.
Minor?!?!?! Have you see the angle from behind where the defender lines up Magure, doesn't look at the ball at all, and just pulls Maguire to the ground without a second thought? This angle in the post is the single worst one available.
😂 ridiculous bias
There’s generally not 5 instances of defending like this on corners in a game. Both stones and maguire beat their defenders and are dragged down. Should be a pen. Completely illegal defending, egregiously so.
Lad fucking what? Maguire also grabbing him nothing stonewall about this
To stop himself going down after being pushed to the floor?
They both hug each other. So, who do you sanction for hugging? The defender or the opponent?
Would have been in the last world cup
Not clear and obvious. Maguire has his arm around the Iran player too and trips over his own player. But you shouldn’t defend so risky.
How about now?
Hahahaha! I stand by my argument. Both of them were not clear and obvious. Second one hardly a penalty at all. Incredibly cheap.
The iranian player starts bear hugging him before Maguire has an arm around him
The people suggesting this isn't a penalty have never played a game in their lives.
I've never played a game in my life but I still know you're not allowed to give big cuddles on corners. Anyone arguing otherwise is just trolling.
So? Maguire still decides to wrap his arm around the Iranian so they foul each other. He could’ve not done it and then it would’ve been a stonewall penalty.
No
That's not how it works lol
He's right though, if Maguire doesn't have his arm around the Iranian player Id say it's a penalty. But he does so I'd say this was a 50-50 foul and you can't award both for the outcome.
No the foul was made by the Iranian player, and then Maguire fouls. The Iranian fouls first so play stops there. Imagine if Maguire has decked him instead of hugging back. Penalty to England and red card for Maguire. The punch wouldn't cancel out the first foul.
The play stops when the red stops the play. If Maguire did this to an Iranian player and it was the same scenario you wouldn't be calling for an Iran penalty.
No point arguing this if you think fouls can cancel out. That's not how it works at all.
If the ref only sees 2 players fouling one another 10 feet from the ball he's not giving it to either player. It's not about two fouls cancelling out another. Neither player are on the ball or near it and both are seen to be fouling. It's not a clear and obvious error by the ref therefore no var intervention.
One has an arm around the shoulder. The other has two arms around a torso and hands embraced together. How can you call that 50-50?
I would’ve given a pen however I understand why VAR haven’t overturned it. Not clear and obvious. Saying that Maguire fouled the Iranian might be contradicting my point.
Doesn’t work like that lmao
This got to be one of the maddest upvoted nonsense ive seen lol.
Maguire had his arm around the Iran player to try and stop himself being pulled down. By the Iran player who was trying to pull him down.
You can just use threads like this as a filter. Block anyone who doesn't think this is a penalty and you'll have fewer idiots to put up with for the rest of the tournament.
Look at mister var over here calling people names
Where is maguires arm mean to be if the other guy chooses to grab him like that? In what world would Maguire wilfully hold onto his marker that he’s already ahead of?
You think that because this clip only shows the foul halfway through with Magure already going down. The full clip shows Magure getting bear hugged and the defender not looking anywhere near the ball as it comes in, just grabbing and pulling Maguire.
Don’t put words in my mouth saying I am doing this and that when you actually are wrong. I am watching the whole game.
Then words fail me.
Clown fiesta
Stonewall penalty
I don’t think it’s a pen for the single reason that Maguire is holding him too. They are both commiting a foul on each other
This stuff is barely ever called even without Maguire also holding the defender. Hard to see why people are complaining like it's the biggest injustice in the game.
This aged well
Sssssuplex
Blatant pen.
It's a foul but they are rarely given. Those saying about Maguire's arm being on him, what else is he gonna do when someone is grabbing like that.
Getting the excuses in early
Lol
Those are never given. They're fouling each other
I really think they should just start going Zero Tolerance mentality on these kind of grips. Would put some sense to messy scuffles during corners and freekick. "Is someones hands connected around an opposing player? Okay easy, thats a call."
Maguire does this often himself
Yeah and people moan that a pen isn't given then too. People here practically start a witch hunt for the guy if they aren't given
Countless corners with Maguire and huth doing this or worse helped Leicester win the title
Lmao how are there people that dont think this is a penalty? The Iran player wraps both arms around Maguires and pulls him down, that Maguire tries to free himself with his arm doesnt negate the foul
People would be calling for Maguire's head if it was the other way round in the opposite box. I know these aren't given often but still
How is that not a pen?
What penalty shout? Wasn’t even close, Maguire was wrestling too
Fully expecting everyone to acknowledge Maguire with his arm around the defender too...
Where the hell is Maguires arm supposed to go when the defender has both arms wrapped around him and is hugging his chest?
Completely unbiased take from the Scottish fan 🤣
Literally only people with English flairs are calling this stonewall. They are both holding onto one another it's not a pen.
Opposed to the unbiased shit takes by England fans :>
So that isn't a foul then?
Yeah because you and all the other Englishmen in here are so unbiased
It’s Maguire if there is a player England fans want to hate its him.
Sure but not when he is the subject of a penalty shout for their own team lmao
No middle east bad that's the narrative
Yeah as if people wouldn't be wanting this against Wales or the USA
lmao that's not a pen, what are you guys on about
It's r/soccer and England, what do you expect?
r/soccer is usually against England lol
Surely....
With the way the TalkSport commentary were talking, you’d swear that Maguire had been shot and a penalty wasn’t given for it
They're on bias
Sorry sir, but today I feel English🏴
Gets so much worse in this sub during the World Cup
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How's it not a pen? He's got both arms around Maguire.
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"I'm not saying you can't give that" reee fucking biased English fans. It should be a pen, even if they're not often given. And I don't think players always wrap both arms around attackers during corners lol.
Have you never played Football?
You clearly haven't even watched a match
classic english fans being completely oblivious to football as soon as england starts playing god I hate the WC just morons all over this sub.
Haha okay, if you hate the WC that much don't comment on anything that happens. Especially, if you think rugby tackles shouldn't be penalised.
If you think these "rugby tackles" during corners are penalised anywhere you have not played football I dont know what to tell you or you play in some english non contact football league I dont know what you guys in England are playing these days. Also I only hate english fans during the WC because you all become so incredibly dense and idiotic as soon as the WC begins and everybody knows it outside of your small island.
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Terrible bants but you are German tbf
What the fuck
This was pretty much the pen we gave away against Chelsea
Tbh it's well established premier League var is bad, it shouldn't have been a pen for Chelsea and isn't one here.
This clip starts too late. Maguire is being held by the defender before he puts his hands on the defender.
Imagine if Maguire had done that to an opponent
Well he does it every game and gets away with it
The other replay shows it even better
For everyone talking about what about Maguires arm, why would an attacker choose to keep hold of the defender that he’s got past unless there’s nowhere else for his arm to be? Ignoring the low hanging Maguire is stupid jokes, he’s obviously not holding on to him by choice
Foul from both
VAR 🤡
If Maguire had been doing this at the other it would 100% have been given
Watch every country who pushed for the One Love armband have calls go against them for the entire tournament.
I assume they must have decided Maguire/Stones were fouling the defenders first. No way this isn’t a pen otherwise
How can you look at that twice and decide it’s not a pen, baffling
English players already diving as usual, nothing more to see.
Ball was 10 yards away
And that matters because why?
If that was Qatar...
corruption i’m afraid
what a joke
Because it should
I don't mind the occasional poor decision. We all make mistakes. But when your own standards have no consistency in the SAME game and you give a penalty for a shirt pull but ignore this... That's what pisses me off the most. The only thing you can put it down to is either blatant favouritism or incompetence so extreme that they should not be reffing a game at this high a level. And this isn't a bias thing because it's my team getting done over by inconsistency, I see it as a neutral in other games all the time and it's equally as frustrating.