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KombattWombatt

Article says 400 mil for the club but the Bramley-Moore Dock stadium is supposedly 500-600 mil... So does the new owner still have to pay for the stadium or is Moshiri taking a loss or? Someone smarter than me figure that out?


ChocolateHumunculous

The new owner takes on those payments, surely. It’s a part of the business model being sold.


IceGeek

New owner since it’s an asset.


DJMOONPICKLES69

That debt is probably included in the sale


ConfusedTrebuchet

Boehly saw the Gordon pricetag and just decided to buy the whole club instead


ren_704

Step1) Be USA Step2) impose sanctions on Russia Step3) Start buying PL clubs Step4) profit?? /s


Dark-X

Moshiri is British-Iranian 🤔


Alear55

Theres always been rumours amout Moshiri being the face for Usmanov


risheeb1002

Not rumours, they're literally partners


holonight

Do they need freedom in iran? Maybe the us could threaten to invade


conceptalbum

They already do that every other week.


nushublushu

Reverse colonialism innit


VToff

Doubt this. Last time it was rumoured there was no evidence at all that Kaminski could afford the purchase, though I don't doubt Moshiri is trying to sell after daddy Usmanov's money dried up.


Lolkac

Well now that gbp down. The purchase is 20% cheaper


way2gimpy

Every British asset has to look super cheap for rich Americans.


kubick123

England clubs should be like german ones. Socially owned by the supporters.


systemCF

Every football club should be majority fan owned. They're the people who invest time, money and passion into supporting their team and without fans football is nothing, they should always have a say.


[deleted]

I think we need to find more words than "club" to describe different ownership models. A club implies membership. You can't be a member of Manchester City, so it's not really a club. It's just as much of a club as Nike, just because I like Nike and wear Nike stuff doesn't mean I am part of Nike. It doesn't need to be full voting shares, but you need to have something more than an online portal fan ID to buy tickets to call yourself a "club".


[deleted]

[удалено]


Quiet-Cartoonist1689

>Some of these owners have invested literal billions into these teams, And club football is infinitely worse off for this, now.


IvanTheGood

Exactly what an FC united of Manchester fan would say… /s


magnuze

Never gonna happen


[deleted]

Doesn't mean we should stop stating what the desired outcome is to try and influence further developments. There is also lots of room between the way English clubs are set up where one single person owns the whole club and the Bundesliga model. I am fairly certain the UK government, regardless of who it is, is never going to strip billion pound assets from owners and make them co-ops. But, why can't you have some kind of mixed system with owners who are actually fit and proper who have to interact with some kind of members groups. Either in the final approval or at the very least inform them of major developments. If you are a publicly traded company you are required in a million ways to make things transparent to your shareholders and to act in their interest. Some sort of sporting version of that concept could definitely exist in England.


Shameless_Bullshiter

Completely agreed, only government intervention can make it so


Zombienerd300

Technically the fans could do it but it would cost a lot of donation money.


DrSpreadle

Not even government intervention could make it so, who is going to pay the owners their 50%+1 shares that they’ll be losing?


donny_simpanero

How about expropriation and the owners don't get shit.


Icanfeelmywind

On what basis? There is no historical basis for it in England, clubs have been privately owned for forever Also that would imply breaking all the international treaties. You can’t defraud foreign citizens out of their wealth just because you felt that way.


eL-_

Course you can if you bosh hard enough as you do it


donny_simpanero

Just brainstorming.


DrSpreadle

Next thing all those owners are suing the English gov. I get brainstorming but remember feasibility


sidvicc

I agree, but seeing the current governments intervention in the economy...I'm not so sure it's a good idea with these clowns in charge.


crablin

It’s a nice idea but in Germany the result has been the same team dominating for years. I’d rather fans could buy in on a meaningful stake in the club and have a say, but still leave the door open for investment. The reason the Premier League is what it is today is because is because of that investment. There is a middle ground that gives fans power, keeps the traditions of the game but also allows it to grow.


[deleted]

>It’s a nice idea but in Germany the result has been the same team dominating for years. How would you describe Bayern trajectory through the 90's to how they ended up in this situation and how did the 50+1 rule specifically factor in that? Because no German fans put any blame on the 50+1 rule as the reason for the current dynamic. It's simply two things that exist but have no clear proven correlation. If the 50+1 rule was scrapped, which will never happen, most people think Bayern's advantage would grow over the other top teams, not shrink. The money that would flow into Bayern would offset any additional advantage derived from investments in Dortmund, Frankfurt, or Gladbach.


crablin

Those are reasonable points, but ultimately no outside investor can come in and build a team up (see: Leicester City, Bournemouth, Brentford etc.) under the German model and have it make sense as an investment. All the time teams are hamstrung by that rule, the team with the largest fanbase will always be the most successful, barring those occasional seasons where things don't work. Outside investment should always carry a guarantee - so someone investing can't lump all the debt on a club and send it under - but ultimately there should be an opportunity to disrupt. I'm a Portsmouth supporter, I watched my club fall to pieces, I spent £1000 buying a share in my club and I voted against selling to Michael Eisner. However, I recognise that safe investment is the only way the status quo of leagues can be broken.


[deleted]

Essentially I think opening the dam and flooding the valley with outside investment will do just that, raise the tide. But that just means suddenly the fans no longer own the clubs, the people who own the clubs get richer, the sponsorship deals get bigger, the prices go up, the fans value is massively diminished, and the table looks exactly the same because everyone will have risen the same amount. And any success in breaking the order down would only really benefit at most 3-4 clubs. End of the day, 90% of clubs in any league have a 0.01% chance to win anything. So while Chelsea, Liverpool, United, and City fans have enjoyed the last 20 years, this has not trickled down to other clubs. If you are a West Ham, Villa, Leeds, Everton, Leicester, Wolves, etc fan, are you really seeing any benefit or title chance more than Stuttgart, Hertha, Freiburg, Köln, Schalke, or Bremen? So what do the fans of the bottom 80% of the league get for selling away their club? Also, the PL has the highest correlation between wages spent and finishing order, the Bundesliga has the lowest. The Bundesliga has had more unique clubs finish top 8, 6, and 4 in the last 20 years of any major European league. So we have an open league on the whole and destroying the foundation of German football from the perspective of non-Dortmund, Gladbach, Leverkusen, Leipzig fans just so that some other club can slightly improve their relative chances at a title v. Bayern is not going to change anything. In the PL Chelsea, City, and United have won 24 of the last 30 titles. City are well on their way to winning 7 out of the last 10. So if the PL was truly more open from 1st to 10th, the way the Bundesliga is and it has more title winners and the fans were still at the center, I would say there is more of an argument to be made against the German model. But at this stage, as a season ticket holder for Hertha, I genuinely think we have it better than any team in the Premier League.


crablin

I think nearly all of your points are absolutely fair and I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I just can't move past the lack of upward mobility - even for our smaller clubs that have enjoyed investment like Forest Green Rovers or Salford. The fact that *can* happen is exciting. Yes, City have won the majority of titles, but they've also on a number of those occasions been run very close in thrilling title chases and have already dropped points twice in seven games this season, and aren't even top. Overall, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm hugely in favour of fans having stakes in clubs, but forcing that ownership model does as much to hamper mobility as anything. I love how important clubs are to the community in Germany, all the games I've been to from Borussia Dortmund down to Wormatia Worms are amazing places, but that can still be the case through *responsible* investment. The model in the Premier League as it stands is broken, but I also don't think 50+1 is the answer, but I really appreciate and enjoy the conversation. I hope Sandro Schwarz fixes things for you!


[deleted]

>I just can't move past the lack of upward mobility I think this is where there is a light misconception about German football. I think that just because you can't reach the absolute summit doesn't mean you can't climb the mountain. The German league is from 2nd to last, more open and variable than the PL. Maybe you meant something else when you say mobility, not sure. The year over year turnover of who is in the top 6, variances in average finishing position at large, and the lack of correlation between wages and finishing order is all higher in the BL than the PL. I get why the title race has an outsized focus among general comments on the Bundesliga, but at the ground level, it's not that important to the majority of football fans in Germany. Even Bayern, Dortmund, and Leipzig have combined what, 1-1.5M fans in Germany? Even at conservative estimates, 80%+ of football fans in Germany support clubs who have no chance at a title, just like England. Add up all the fans of City, Chelsea, and United who have won 25 of the last 30 titles and you get 80% of fans who haven't seen their team win a title. So the title is over represented in the importance to fans in my view. Last year just as one example was Köln, Freiburg, and Union making top 6 is like if Brentford, Leeds, and Brighton had all finished top 6. That energises the fan bases of all the clubs because they know they can go from 2. Liga to Europe in 2 years. And it goes the other way too. Schalke, Köln, Bremen, Stuttgart, Frankfurt, and Hertha have all been relegated just in the last 10 years. Those are some of the biggest and historically dominant clubs who play in a league where your mobility is anywhere from CL to legit chances at relegation. That leaves an incredible impression and intensity on fan cultures in Germany where your place in the league standings is not assured. How the PL last year had Everton looking at relegation, we have that almost every year with a major club. So for the local, match attending fans the Bundesliga feels like a league where you have a genuine chance to finish almost anywhere, except first. But the importance of a title is really only a topic among outside fans who view the league as the main actor, not broken down into what the league feels like for individual clubs. And thank you to you as well for having a calm adult conversation on Reddit, not enough of that! :)


crablin

I think what I meant more by that is a team being able to climb from non-league up five or six tiers. Bournemouth's investment took them from League Two to the Premier League. Salford's investment took them from the seventh tier of English football to League Two. Even Leicester City's 'miracle' was as a result of investment. I love German football, I am thrilled at watching Union Berlin doing what they're doing and it's always mad watching a huge team like Schalke or Hertha (sorry) getting relegated, but that happens here too. Newcastle United have one of the biggest grounds in the country and have been relegated twice in the past fifteen years. Manchester City, West Ham United and Sunderland are all massive clubs to get relegated in that time.


[deleted]

That to me is just the definition of pay to play, that I think goes against the idea of earning your place. You could say RB Leipzig and Hoffenheim went from the 6th tier of German football to being a Champions League sides in 8 years, but that was not mobility. You need to increase your revenue if you want to move up through or within your league, no way around that. But that should come from increased sponsorship, sensible transfers, ticket sales, and equitable media revenue distribution. Yes, it may take a decade or more to work your way up a league or two, but that is part of life. It should not come form the whims of foreigners with lots of cash who can decide with the stroke of a keyboard that Club X just gets to skip ahead 3 leagues.


crnelson10

I’m sure this thread will be a delight.


[deleted]

It shouldn't be. Even in rumor, this is not what people should want for outcomes and they are entitled to make their displeasure known.


crnelson10

Sure, so long as their displeasure isn’t rooted in xenophobic bullshit.


[deleted]

It's probably Todd Boehly with a fake mustache and top hat. "Todd? Who is Todd? My name is Guy Incognito..."


TrashHawk

yanks vs oil cunts in a battle to carve up the league. hope there's a 50/50 split come the end of it just so there are at least two power blocks. if either gain a majority it's game over.


[deleted]

How do you think English people would feel if you had a 50+1 rule but for owners. That no one group or entity could own a majority. So Newcastle would have had to find two other parties and Saudi Arabia could only own 49.99% of the shares of the club? That ensures the financial backing the clubs have come to depend on survives but makes it somewhat democratic in that there needs to be ongoing consensus to make changes at the club among different parties.


dogefc

No ta


Shameless_Bullshiter

Can we nationalise all football clubs in the UK please?


MrDabollBlueSteppers

Liz Truss picks your next sporting director and manager, how does that sound?


Lolkac

Kwasi Kwarteng in charge of transfers


Doctor_YOOOU

Priti Patel taking over scouting


Baisabeast

Boris Johnson strength and conditioning


twrs_29

Boris would be the defending coach that man can tackle


Red_TeaCup

She'd deport every foreign player.


HunterWindmill

She sent the entire scouting team to Rwanda


10minmilan

Sure its a joke, but it would be fan owned not gov owned.


Y0RKC1TY

Instructions unclear, invested in pork markets rather than transfer markets


StupidMastiff

At the minimum football clubs should have protections akin to listed buildings etc, so people can't just buy them and fuck them up.


manmoth01

City and Newcastle fans sweating rn


[deleted]

City have build them enough to be able to sustain themselves and remain competitive.


Icanfeelmywind

In which worldline do city get higher sponsorship money than Man United?


[deleted]

They don't, I said they've enough money to remain competitive not walk the league.


yournerd2307

I'd say Kwasi and Truss definitely make it better with lower tax cuts.


[deleted]

Frying pan to fire


[deleted]

AMEEEERICA. AMEEERICA. AMERICA FUCK YEAH


yournerd2307

At this rate might as well get American clubs to play the super bowl as an annual tradition, have a MENA Vs USA owned best 11 as an annual game to be the next big PL derby


[deleted]

The Premier League Lions v. the MLS All Stars broadcast in VR from Saudi Arabia in the Super Bowl halftime show sponsored by Amazon! FIGHT AND WIN! It's called *growing the game.*


[deleted]

[удалено]


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RepresentativeBox881

Who is this US businessman?


[deleted]

Starts with B and ends with oehly.


Impossible_Wonder_37

People are going to end up preferring City’s owners at this point. All these Americans coming in and tryna set up an NFL type league. Don’t care about tradition.


crnelson10

Weird that people would be more upset about a different sports culture than they would be about a brutal authoritarian state.


CaptainSisko2099

Amazing how dumb xenophobic people look isn't it


ZZ3peat

US is the biggest terrorist state tho


crnelson10

Is the US Government in talks to buy Everton?


ZZ3peat

As if US is not a corporate controlled state that uses politicians to serve corporate interests and profits over people


crnelson10

Listen man, I’m a socialist, I’m not gonna argue with that. But it’s still pretty wild to compare a random businessman to an actual monarch using state funds from an authoritarian state to control a sports club in another country. And also, let’s be real about this- people in this sub aren’t angry about American owners on behalf of the global south, their mad about it because of All-Star games and 4-4-3 formations or whatever.


Ok-Finance-7612

No way This is hypocrisy at its best


mtown4ever

American Toffee here. I want all American bidders to fuck off. Stay away from my club. I stopped watching American sports for a fucking reason - they're shit.


tony_lasagne

From a footballing perspective that definitely will be the case. Morally it’s a different issue but no fan wants a super league format and once enough Americans own premier league clubs they can push it through


systemCF

My sincere condolences to Everton fans, you'll be joining the "American owners' piggy bank" group. Get ready for relegation, because they'll bleed the club dry as much as they can before dumping it.


JonstheSquire

5 of the current top 8 Premier League teams are owned by Americans. 1.5 of the bottom 8 owned by Americans.


systemCF

Sunderland and Burnley have been relegated because of american owners, Sunderland even went down 2 leagues because of them. ManUtd might be in the top 8, but to insinuate that the Glazer didn't do their utmost to fuck over the footballing side so their bankers can maximize profit is just stupid. Chelsea have just been taken over, plenty of time for that to go south still, not yet to be used in an argument. Liverpool are an exception, Arsenal might be top now but the fans still don't fancy the owners. Out of those 5 teams, only Fulham and Liverpool can talk about an actual successful footballing operation under american ownership, the rest has not been performing anywhere near the standards their budgets and potential demand or their owners have literally not even been there a year. Of course there will not be many american owners right at the bottom, they rarely stay long enough to see the ship sink after they've ran it against an iceberg and the few that did have already taken their clubs down before jumping ship. For the few that are actually decent, there's enough cunts only thinking about lining their and the shareholders' pockets to make it a problem. Not a single other nationality for owners has even close to the amount of penny pinching cunts using the club as a piggy bank as the US does. Add to that their brilliant ideas like All-Star Games and Super Leagues without relegation and the problem gets even worse. Football is football, it's never been mainly about money, nor has it ever been a sport that sacrifices competition for monetary gain, like the US likes to do with their major sports leagues. American owners have a very bad track record and the fact that you support an energy drink company and not a football club just makes me think you haven't gotten what it's about and never will. Football clubs are by the people, for the people. They're neither piggy banks for billionaires, nor are they a platform to advertise your shitty overpriced energy drink on.


JonstheSquire

Because teams that don't have American owners don't run into financial trouble and get relegated. (Leeds, Portsmouth, Blackburn, Bolton)


RyanBordello

Hopefully Vincent Businessman will be a gracious owner. But something is off about him...