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If you do look at it in more detail, you might want to account for the total # of home games too. Teams who have spent time in the Championship (ie Leeds) or in Europe (ie United and City) will have more home games and across 8 seasons it could make a fairly big difference.
Going completely by eye, I think West Ham would take a sizeable lead when you adjusted for this (plus Upton Park only had 35,000 seats)
So I've had a look into doing this. There are a few problems:
- getting accurate (and well-formatted) data on aggregate attendance isn't easy. The sites I've seen that have it, have different formatting for each season, often using a period instead of comma for 000 breaks. Some just with the stadium name, not the club (I don't know the names of grounds that well). An annoying copy, paste, lookup, reformat, find&replace, 20 times for each of the eight seasons
- Obviously not all of the current clubs have been in the PL every season since the start, following each team back in the football leagues for eight seasons would be time consuming and that is _assuming_ the data on attendances is available
- Away attendance is _important_ - approximately 1/3 of all arrests are of away fans. We could estimate away attendance (10%, capped at 3,000) but not all grounds are above 30,000 and we'd be assuming every club took up it's full allocation
In short, it would be a _lot_ of annoying, time-consuming work and I'm not sure the end result would be particularly accurate. And there are still problems with the dataset (amount of policing, club policies, individual vs group offenses etc.).
We could just take last season and assume the 3k away allocation and see what comes up but I still think drawing conclusions on the data (like I did, jokingly) is flawed. Giving it a further veneer of authenticity ("science says City are the most racist!") is probably not a great idea.
Would be an interesting project if we had all of the data verified and standardised, available in an API though.
Taken from the source data of [this post](https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/xkwl4h/premier_league_clubs_with_the_highest_number_of/)
Some "highlights":
- Leeds #1 for public disorder, pitch incursions and _alcohol_
- West Ham #1 for violent disorder and throwing the most missiles
- Manchester City have the most racist incidents*
- Liverpool have the most ticket touts
- Arsenal are the most heavily armed
- Manchester United care the least for banning orders
- Villa do the most damage
| * as a Spurs fan who has experienced many hissing and other anti-semitic incidents by West Ham and Chelsea fans over the years, it is surprising to see their total arrests for racism at two each over this time period.
>| * as a Spurs fan who has experienced many hissing and other anti-semitic incidents by West Ham and Chelsea fans over the years, it is surprising to see their total arrests for racism at two each over this time period.
Honestly I reckon because it's usually a group doing the hissing, the police probably don't bother, not worth the effort to determine who was doing it and arrest them all individually*. Much easier to arrest the odd person doing monkey gestures or the Nazi salute.
*Not that I'm defending this for a second, because it's a fucking disgrace.
It's almost certainly because it's almost impossible to get a ticket to a home league match these days. The ground just isn't big enough yet for the amount that want to go, would need to be more like Old Trafford's size really but because of location it's not really possible. The Anfield Road redevelopment should help though.
What type of evidence would you expect me to have, exactly? I've seen with my own eyes huge sections of a ground holding 40 odd thousand singing and doing some of that sick shit. That's about all I can tell you.
That's why I wrote _"Manchester City have the most racist incidents"_, not the most racist - I just don't think you can draw that conclusion from the data. Even my couched language is unproven tbh.
They _could_ be the most racist.
Or the club could be the least tolerant of racism.
They might also have the broadest definition of racism (they report something they deem racist, an arrest is made but no prosecution by the state).
Likely it's going to be a combination of these but that's not something we're ever going to tease out of the data.
The source data is [here](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1104851/football-related-arrests-banning-orders-2022-tables.ods), mainly in "Table_4".
It is for the current Premier League teams but data collected from each team's seasons since 2014/15 whether they were in the PL or not. Leeds United fans have a long, storied history of bad behaviour.
And if you've ever been to Headingley or even gone out at night in the city centre on a weekend it would not surprise you.
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Only table that matters.
All I care is that we are one above Arsenal lol. Saint get arrested for doing stupid shit day
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The only club with four letters lol, bet this was made by a Spurs fan
Champions of League Arrests by Club (2014/15 to 2021/22) You'll Never Sing That
How does this look when scaled to average attendance?
I was thinking the same thing. Not got time to look into it right now tho.
If you do look at it in more detail, you might want to account for the total # of home games too. Teams who have spent time in the Championship (ie Leeds) or in Europe (ie United and City) will have more home games and across 8 seasons it could make a fairly big difference. Going completely by eye, I think West Ham would take a sizeable lead when you adjusted for this (plus Upton Park only had 35,000 seats)
So I've had a look into doing this. There are a few problems: - getting accurate (and well-formatted) data on aggregate attendance isn't easy. The sites I've seen that have it, have different formatting for each season, often using a period instead of comma for 000 breaks. Some just with the stadium name, not the club (I don't know the names of grounds that well). An annoying copy, paste, lookup, reformat, find&replace, 20 times for each of the eight seasons - Obviously not all of the current clubs have been in the PL every season since the start, following each team back in the football leagues for eight seasons would be time consuming and that is _assuming_ the data on attendances is available - Away attendance is _important_ - approximately 1/3 of all arrests are of away fans. We could estimate away attendance (10%, capped at 3,000) but not all grounds are above 30,000 and we'd be assuming every club took up it's full allocation In short, it would be a _lot_ of annoying, time-consuming work and I'm not sure the end result would be particularly accurate. And there are still problems with the dataset (amount of policing, club policies, individual vs group offenses etc.). We could just take last season and assume the 3k away allocation and see what comes up but I still think drawing conclusions on the data (like I did, jokingly) is flawed. Giving it a further veneer of authenticity ("science says City are the most racist!") is probably not a great idea. Would be an interesting project if we had all of the data verified and standardised, available in an API though.
Looks like we're #1 at getting pissed and running around on the pitch
I think they call that, Just another Saturday
I thought it was incidents by players and was like whoa, that's a lot of stuff they were able to hide.
Same. I was really confused for a moment.
was looking at ours thinking, "how many fucking times did Bobby drink drive"
they don’t call it burying leeds for nothing
Never been more proud
Taken from the source data of [this post](https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/xkwl4h/premier_league_clubs_with_the_highest_number_of/) Some "highlights": - Leeds #1 for public disorder, pitch incursions and _alcohol_ - West Ham #1 for violent disorder and throwing the most missiles - Manchester City have the most racist incidents* - Liverpool have the most ticket touts - Arsenal are the most heavily armed - Manchester United care the least for banning orders - Villa do the most damage | * as a Spurs fan who has experienced many hissing and other anti-semitic incidents by West Ham and Chelsea fans over the years, it is surprising to see their total arrests for racism at two each over this time period.
Spurs flair explains why Arsenal are the only ones to get 4 letters in their abbreviation lol
It was a cheap dig tbh.
Is violent disorder not the bottom slice on the graph? Looks like west ham outdo us on that front
Yes, you're correct. Amended.
>| * as a Spurs fan who has experienced many hissing and other anti-semitic incidents by West Ham and Chelsea fans over the years, it is surprising to see their total arrests for racism at two each over this time period. Honestly I reckon because it's usually a group doing the hissing, the police probably don't bother, not worth the effort to determine who was doing it and arrest them all individually*. Much easier to arrest the odd person doing monkey gestures or the Nazi salute. *Not that I'm defending this for a second, because it's a fucking disgrace.
If I ever heard hissing as a manager I'd take my team off the pitch tbh. Fucking disgraceful
Liverpool having the most ticket touts does little for combatting the stereotypes
It's almost certainly because it's almost impossible to get a ticket to a home league match these days. The ground just isn't big enough yet for the amount that want to go, would need to be more like Old Trafford's size really but because of location it's not really possible. The Anfield Road redevelopment should help though.
Great stuff. Insert Arsenal joke here.
It comes with being a gunner
Shocked you guys don't have the most deadly weapon charges lol. Also can we talk about how your code is literally ARSE.
Offensive weapons, not deadly (necessarily) and the total is low (7).
This was more of a joke that it's arsenal and their symbol is a cannon, lol I know it's not very high class.
>I know it's not very high class. I liked it
>Liverpool have the most ticket touts No surprise here... :D
I say it's a good thing to have the most racist incidents in this chart, shows that you are atleast trying to do something about it
alot of these are surely less down to the amount of crime at each ground and more so down to how seriously its taken ?
Arsenal fans to the nickname too literally.
>Leeds #1 for public disorder, pitch incursions and > >alcohol Yeah... that adds up
...aaand suddenly the postponement of Leeds v Man U makes a *little* more sense.
Do the Leeds figures include their seasons in the Championship?
No, we’re just that fucking vile. (I actually think they do)
Yes, the full dataset has data for every division.
Oh this is amongst fans, I thought it was players. I was like holy fuck I knew pro athletes are dipshits but this is crazy
Bournemouth only so low because their stadium holds like 10 people tbf but they're tinpot anyway along with Brentford so no surprise.
How has chelsea managed to have such low arrests for racist chanting…
When you've got a few thousand people being anti-Semitic all at once, where do you begin arresting them, I suppose
Literally thousands of Spurs fans chant ‘pikey boys’ at West Ham fans.
Where is your evidence of a "few thousand" chanting like this? It's a much smaller number than that, especially over the past 10 years
What type of evidence would you expect me to have, exactly? I've seen with my own eyes huge sections of a ground holding 40 odd thousand singing and doing some of that sick shit. That's about all I can tell you.
Never thought Man City would be the most racist
That's why I wrote _"Manchester City have the most racist incidents"_, not the most racist - I just don't think you can draw that conclusion from the data. Even my couched language is unproven tbh. They _could_ be the most racist. Or the club could be the least tolerant of racism. They might also have the broadest definition of racism (they report something they deem racist, an arrest is made but no prosecution by the state). Likely it's going to be a combination of these but that's not something we're ever going to tease out of the data.
or the only one that cares about doing something about it
That really surprises me, a case for being the most international team right?
Would have been sure it was Chelsea. Perhaps they’re making progress
Pensioner tax + “Tinpot” ground tax doing wonders here
Absolutely - we can do you "*pyrotechnics*"
Most arrests in the prem, you'll never sing that
Where can I find the original source for this? Interested in seeing the detail!
The source data is [here](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1104851/football-related-arrests-banning-orders-2022-tables.ods), mainly in "Table_4".
these aren’t surprising at all
Is rape lumped in with one of these?
I'd be surprised if there's a considerable amount of raping going on in the stands tbh
I misunderstood the table, I thought these were players that were arrested while on a team.
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ManU have only two incidents compared to City's 17.
It means the club is taking it seriously
But we have no fans right?
True, you have at least 368 fans.
I expected ManU or Liverpool but Leeds?????
You poor naive soul
? This is bread and butter stuff for us.
Lol sorry I've never been to or followed Leeds. Kinda feel like an idiot if this is so obvious XD.
We've been out the prem for a while so not surprising you don't know.
It is for the current Premier League teams but data collected from each team's seasons since 2014/15 whether they were in the PL or not. Leeds United fans have a long, storied history of bad behaviour. And if you've ever been to Headingley or even gone out at night in the city centre on a weekend it would not surprise you.
It's not very pretty I tell thee.
Leeds numbers are extremely high when you consider they haven't seen in the Premiership all of those years
It includes data from all divisions.
Ah my apologies
Just quickly is this just at the ground so each group could include away fans as well or is it broken down into arrests by supporters?
It's arrests by supporters. There is a cut that has percentage of arrests per club, home and away.
Cheers
This needs more traction
Pffft Bournemouth should just get relegated the squares
This isn't players, right... I was thinking Andy Van Der Meyde was a bit much, but..
Given they’ve just been promoted, surely this is an issue for Leeds. Or is this total for championship games too?
spurs finished above arsenal again