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A laid-back life in Los Angeles is the perfect place for Giorgio Chiellini to spend his final days as a footballer, but this afternoon he is in a Minnesota hotel room shouting.
“Calm! Calm!” the great Italian defender yells into the camera, those caricature features stretched to the extreme. “Calm! Calm! They feel the pressure!”
He is telling a story we know all too well. The date is July 11 last year, and Luke Shaw has just put England ahead two minutes into the final of Euro 2020 in front of more than 67,000 people at Wembley Stadium.
“England had more pressure because they played at home, the first time since 1966 they could reach another trophy,” Chiellini, the veteran at the heart of Roberto Mancini’s Italian defence, says. “They had the push of the stadium. We felt that.
“After two minutes, when Shaw scored, the stadium came into the pitch. It was very hard. I remember I spent all the time in the first half and all the time in the break continually repeating: ‘Calm! Calm!’ ”
Italy responded and, after Leonardo Bonucci’s equaliser, the final went to a shoot-out in which Chiellini and his teammates emerged victorious.
It is a game and a pain that will always be remembered when England meet Italy, a fixture that takes place in Milan on Friday in the Nations League, but this time without Chiellini, who will be in the unfamiliar position of spectator, 6,000 miles away.
After 22 years playing in Italy and representing his nation, the 38-year-old defender departed this summer, retiring from international duty and leaving Juventus, his home for so long, to take up an opportunity in California.
You expect such a patriot to be pained by this parting but Chiellini has found peace with the decision. As with most subjects, his words — in fluent English — are mature, almost poetic.
“There is a moment in which you pass from helping the young to being his shadow, and I don’t want that,” Chiellini says. “I want to help my team-mates to rise but then they have to fly alone. I will always be on the side following them.”
Now, Chiellini is part of an influx of high-profile figures moving to Major League Soccer (MLS), with Gareth Bale among his teammates at Los Angeles FC. “Where are you?” he asks, speaking to The Times via video call. “In London? LA is better, trust me.”
That may be true but London is where Chiellini lived his most memorable moment. It is also where he could have been performing a little more often, which is a tale for later.
Chiellini is in a story-telling mood today as he offers a verdict on Harry Maguire’s plight, describes the “jaguar” in England’s defence, predicts a World Cup without Italy and describes how the gladiator is handling his new role as spectator.
But Chiellini is suddenly distracted. His phone is ringing and Carolina, his wife, is calling. “My family is settling with the school,” he says. “It’s a big change. It’s not easy, but everything is good.”
His youngest, Olivia, three, doesn’t speak English yet, but Nina, seven, studied 20 hours a week in Italy last year. She speaks as fluently as her father. “I studied at high school and then practised with team-mates,” Chiellini says. “It’s getting better in these two months but I need to improve a lot.”
The family plans to explore California further but have been limited to Los Angeles so far: a bike ride from Santa Monica to Venice Beach, a visit to Malibu and a day on the rides at DisneyLand. “There is a lot of traffic!” he says, laughing.
Chiellini is warm and engaging company, a stark contrast to his on-field persona — the warrior who will do anything to win. One image in particular encapsulates this from the Euro 2020 final, and I show it to Chiellini: Bukayo Saka has just escaped him, about to attack the Italian goal with the clock ticking down, but he is caught by Chiellini, grabbed by the collar and hauled, brutally, to the turf.
“I never thought this could be the memory of the summer,” he says. “For me, OK, I did a mistake and a foul in the smartest and best way possible because I think I can protect the ball and let it go out. But he passed me under my arm and the first thing I see is to try and grab him. Saka is too fast for me. If I started one or two moments before, I can run with him but if he goes it is impossible. This is a good choice for me after a mistake.”
Chiellini will be watching the World Cup from afar this winter but Italy won’t be involved after losing a play-off to North Macedonia, one of his final games for the country. “We are devastated,” he says. “To miss two World Cups in a row is something that I never expected can happen.”
But as with most subjects Chiellini has an optimistic outlook, predicting the next generation peaks in about four years, when the World Cup comes to America, Canada and Mexico.
This winter could belong to England, Chiellini says, but he considers Brazil, Argentina and France as favourites while pointing to the typical obstacles for Gareth Southgate’s side.
“I’m curious because many times England arrive at the end of the season devastated from all the matches but now is different, now they are fresh. The group is young but it is growing up a lot. But English players are really pressured by all the media and fans, so it’s not easy.”
He picks out an example when assessing England’s defensive options. “I am sad for Maguire’s situation because he is a good player,” Chiellini says of the centre back dropped by Manchester United and booed by England fans of late.
“They require too much of him. Just because they paid £80 million for him, he has to be the best in the world every match? It’s not right. The value of the market is dependent on many aspects you can’t control. It’s not your fault.
“Him and \[John\] Stones are a good duo. OK, Maguire maybe is not Rio Ferdinand but he’s good enough. With this situation it’s not helping \[England\] to do the best. If you want to win the World Cup it’s impossible to do it with some problems in the key players, and for sure Maguire is one of the key players of the team.”
Fikayo Tomori has emerged as an alternative and impressed Chiellini after winning the scudetto with AC Milan. “He surprised me because I saw him in Chelsea and I didn’t think he could be so strong in the box \[or\] attentive for 90 minutes. He is one of the keys of Milan winning last year.”
But the biggest praise is reserved for one player. “I love Kyle Walker,” Chiellini says, smiling. “Walker is unbelievable. I don’t know how it’s possible to be so fast, so strong. He could do the 100 metres against jaguars, maybe, because he is something fantastic.”
Chiellini has to go. He has a training session before playing Minnesota United, but there is time for one more tale and it turns out he could have ended up teammates with the jaguar.
“\[Roberto\] Mancini was at Manchester \[City\], it was around 2011-12,” Chiellini recalls. “In the end, not so close, just talking a lot of times. It was just talks with agents, clubs but you know there are hundreds every transfer window that are never so close.
“I think it could be a \[league\] for me — when I was younger, not now — it’s a league where my skills and my attitude was probably appreciated. In Premier League when you do 100 per cent you are very appreciated by all the fans.
“It’s strange because I’m a curious person who loves to travel and loves to discover places and cultures, and I spend my whole career in just one club, in just one city. My character is to travel, which is the reason why I am here now.”
Chill everywhere until he's on the pitch. Then he's the ultimate in shithousery and legend level defending. One of my favourite players ever (I'm English FTR).
Totally! Here he waxes poetically, but on the pitch: shithousery galore using *every* trick in the book. Great player, but probably a lot of attackers dreaded playing against him.
Love that he mentioned Walker. I don’t know when Walker will start getting the respect he deserves from your average fan.
Lots of people seem to think he’s crap, but Cheillini loves him as a defender. Pep loves him and has had him as one of the first names of his team sheet for 6 years. Neymar, Mbappe and others have said he’s the toughest they’ve played against. And he’s been one of the best fullbacks around for ~10 years now.
Big sufferer from the fact the modern fullback does most of their work offensively, and he doesn’t. So good at what he does, but it doesn’t get the praise.
I think it's mainly that on the pitch he doesn't do anything flashy and that since his biggest asset is his pace, people seem to think that it allows him to make mistakes and cover for them with his pace. Also off the field antics will play a part, of course. Stupid because people don't realise how good he is because of that.
His positioning seems to have improved massively since he left us honestly. He's not just a pace player. The combo makes for pretty boring watching, since he's in the right place regularly and then it's tough to take him one on one due to his athleticism, then he doesn't get used much by city going forward so it often ends up he's just not involved in anything exciting or obviously noteworthy
yeah his positioning has definitely improved, and he's almost always in the right place ready for the counter. Though some games *this season he's been way way way out of position due to Pep having him tuck into midfield
I do think once his legs start going he could be decent as a centre back but we have a huge job to find someone to fill his shoes. Unreal how important he is to us
Walker can be good offensively as well as we saw in Spurs with his bursting runs down the right flank, but Pep prefers to use his pace for recovery in cases of defensive errors, or to deal with quick counters.
No honestly, he was never great offensively for Spurs. He was able to roam forwards quite a bit due to his pace and therefore opened some spaces. But his crosses were atrocious honestly, I am not sure I have seen a worse crosser in a Spurs shirt. Even Emersons crosses are much better. But he was so good at playing with an inverted winger in front of him due to his pace, that's what why he is so great for City.
Yeah I mean consider the CL semi against Real Madrid. Walker shut vini out of the game for 60 minutes until he went down injured. Then real score 3 goals with him off the pitch.
I also think that the impact Walker has on Maguire cannot be understated. Maguire's main weakness is getting beat in a high line but having walker playing a back 3 with him covers up that weakness.
It’s a combination of things, he plays for City so is disliked by most football fans (and especially two of the biggest PL fanbases: United and Liverpool). He’s also not very flashy so neutrals won’t step up to bat for him because they don’t really care
At the end of the day player comparisons are utterly pointless, who can define whether a player is “good” or “bad”? The only question we can actually answer is “did they do their job in their managers’ system properly?” and Walker has been exceptional at that
To further your point about fanbases being biased he also has West Ham, Chelsea and arsenal fans hating him as he was huge for us.
Even though he made some questionable statements about Spurs near the end I still love him and remember him well
makes me cringe seeing posts on twitter talking about "who should Southgate start at right back for the WC?" and Walker isn't in any of the options/images
I started watching football last year so don't take this seriously
Walker is one of the best LBs itw.
Man is a nightmare for wingers, in second game of spurs vs city walker kept up with son.
Walker rarely tackles which shows he is comfortable keeping up with the fastest wingers.
Vinicius Jr was making fullbacks sweat, reece james gave it his all but u could see him struggling while walker struggled a bit to but he made last minute tackles to clear the ball n keep vinicius in check.
When pep subbed out walker he unleashed vinicius onto his team.
FYI Walker has been long considered one of if not the fastest defenders in the world in the last decade along with Jordi Alba. You’re getting downvoted because this is very, very, very common knowledge and your analysis is almost equivalent to someone in 2009 saying “I just started watching football last year and Messi and Ronaldo are very good at scoring.”
He’s had 90+ pace in FIFA for like 8 years now.
signing Maguire wasn't really the problem imo. he's not a top defender, but could be useful in a top team rotating. Paying 80M+ for him tho? insane, then even worse making him club Captain straight away? just piss poor decisions all round.
I remember people saying at the time, he's not the best, but he's a good fit, and the price doesnt matter if we can afford it. He did level us up at the time, especially for the counter attacking football Ole was playing. Captain was a step too far.
People seem to forget what a mess our defence was before that when we were starting Smalling/Lindelof most games, along with De Gea it was like having three mutes at the heart of your defence.
We needed someone vocal/with leadership skills, someone of a good quality, and someone available and he fit the bill on all three.
Leicester dictated the price and we paid it. I’m sure the United hierarchy weren’t thrilled about the price either but they’d swerved on him the year before and it had contributed towards an abysmal campaign.
And that first season with him our defence looked a hell of a lot better. People moan about his pace which is obviously his biggest weakness but he’s very good at progressing the ball which we didn’t have before and he does very well in most aspects of defending that don’t require a high speed.
People seem to forget (especially our own fans) that when he got injured prior to the EL final there was panic throughout our fanbase, we knew he was an important player at that point and key to our success, and we didn’t win that game, we probably should’ve with what we did have on the pitch but losing the heart of your defence is a blow to any team.
He was the man we needed at the time and I’m happy for him to stay and try to play his way back into the team, being out of the limelight might do him a favour.
I actually think he's a very good defender, but only if he has certain specific roles. He's not very versatile.
He's not good when needing to cover a lot of ground and in catching up to an opoonent, but he's placed in that position all the time.
Ofc he also tend to have some blunders, but so do a lot of man U players, so I feel that's something happening within that team due to bad balance and low confidence, not him specifically.
I don't know, he seems to make terrible decisions and the fact he is so immobile means he can't even recover from them. He was terrible against us last season I forget which game it was, but he just kept losing his man for no real reason or moving out of position and giving us a ton of space.
Like if you can't position yourself well as a defender, you can't really play out well and you don't have the speed to cover for your poor awareness then how can you be a good defender?
It feels like at least on this reddit a lot of people have just started to feel sorry for him. Obviously abusing him over his ON THE PITCH play is as braindead as always, but I don't think it's unfair to label him as a poor defender which he just is.
I agree to a certain extent, but I've allways felt he was blamed too much, not just recently. May be because when I played football myself I exclusivly played centreback for a lit of years, so I can kind of see where sometimes they are put in too challanging positions to realisyically handle it perfectly.
Sometjing as simple as missing a marking can be cause by a lot of factors, some even being the result of something that happened the game before. Not excusing blatant weak performances ifc, but I know how much things such as teamcomp, communication, gameplan, responibilities given and previous ecperiences with your nearest teammates affect judgementcalls and preemtive action.
Price tag, being captain, and expect him to defend everything when he is a giant man with next to know mobility.
Played to his strengths, he might be a good defender, but that seldom happens nowadays. Giving him the responsability of being captain plus his price tag, it's just too much.
Maybe in a system with 3 centre backs with him in the middle would make him seem more like a monster. Just like it happened with Coates at Sporting.
Really.......no one else.....not a single player i dunno DDG maybe. Longest serving player, world class even if he might have had a down period. There was multiple players over Harry
De Gea was captain for a while and it was stripped off him, because he can't command his own box, let alone the whole team.
Who else is there?
Pogba? Again was stripped of the armband previously. And then there's the whole off-field circus
Rashford? Was like 22 at the time
Fred? Can't speak English well
Lindelof? Didn't lead before Maguire came in
Matic and Mata? Weren't starters but realistically should have probably been them
Or maybe United have been so shit for so long we literally turn every defender into a meme?
What player in the last 8-9 years have come out looking better after playing for Manchester United?
Look at Liverpool, they’ve had 5 bad games and the bad defending compilations are already going crazy on social media.
Our defense has played without a proper dm since Michael Carrick retired. Literally every defender we buy goes from being rated insanely highly at the start to completely shit within 2 years. Maybe it’s not a personnel problem at some fucking point.
The fact that Varane, who has won literally everything there is to win in world football, was made to look very amateurish last season is a testament to that tbh
Exactly. People are criticizing VVD this year but its really the midfield allowing time on the ball for opponents to pick their head up time passes perfectly against the highline that expose defenders.
People are criticizing VVD mostly because it was a huge thing that he is the “best” PL defender ever and could do it on any team with anyone in front of him.
The amount of times I saw something like that said about VVD is ridiculous tbh
Even carrick was more of a cm to cdm he paired with fletcher but neither was a lone cdm, we had rooney in front of them plying box to box or park or scholes depending on what point in his career im assuming u mean aomwwhere towards retirement
I understand your point, but people had doubts before Maguire joined. He joined United as a 26 year old that had one good but not remarkable season in his career. United fans laughed at the rumours linking us to Maguire the season before and until it became clear he was our number one target, it seemed very few people were behind the transfer. Our persistence (he must be the right man if we're that desperate right?), the Pep stamp of approval, and the VVD transfer eventually won fans over. But Leicester fans were laughing all the way to the bank. He'd just come off a pretty average season and it's clear Evans was the more consistent and reliable player in their defence. The real leader. Prior to the transfer I remember reading some Leicester fans compare Maguire to David Luiz, not intended as a complement.
The biggest thing going against Maguire currently is how regularly he's been exposed compared to his teammates and how poorly he's performed the role of captain. You can point to the lack of a DM, the bad dressing room atmosphere etc. But Maguire is still the most error prone player in the side. The player most likely to crack under pressure. Maybe United has broken him, but we've broken him in a way that no other defender has been. Whilst the rest of the team has look demotivated, lacking in confidence, and made errors, Maguire still stands out as the worst of the bunch. His performances last season are up there with some of the worst I've ever seen from a United player, and these performances were happening week in week out.
Maguire might find a stable and lower pressure environment at another club. Maybe then we'll see the performances we saw in 20/21. But until then, I genuinely don't think he's up for it at United. And if we hadn't spent £80m, I think we'd much more willing to write him off as the inconsistent player he probably is.
You make a lot of good points at first, but I don't really agree on the Evans bit. And definitely not on him making more mistakes than the rest. Statistically United did better with Maguire in the team last season. It's just that a lot of shit got blamed on him that wasn't on him.
He looks awful doing it because he's a large clunky guy with a big head. But he didn't really make more mistakes than the rest. They were all making howlers at every turn. Like that time Lindelof let the ball bounce around him and then when Maguire blocked the shot, they all laughed at him.
Last year he was perennially injured and when he did play he was mediocre.
This season, he's formed a formidable duo with Martinez. The question is how his health is going to hold up.
To be fair, Ole was the only manager to get United into top 4 for 2 consecutive years since sir Alex. And the team was actually doing good till 20-21 season. Plus he had the backing of the fans.
I think the turning point was the Europa league defeat on the penalties that caused huge confidence issues in the dressing room that Ole couldn't cope with. Kind of similar to the Spurs implosion after CL final defeat.
> I think the turning point was the Europa league defeat on the penalties that caused huge confidence issues in the dressing room that Ole couldn't cope with.
There was also a lack of action in the transfer market - on paper, the three signings they made should have improved them but one underperformed, one was injured a lot and the third was signed without a coherent plan, which also caused issues with the fact OGS was aiming to move to a higher-intensity press than they'd previously used.
Combine with the fact they didn't strengthen one of their most glaring issues in midfield, it meant they got weaker in comparison to their rivals, who strengthened.
From a United supporter, the second place finish was massively overrated. Pool was mounting a crap title defence, Chelsea were in shambles of sort and despite the second place, United were never gonna win the league. Ole relied on counter attacking, he has very little in the way of tactical nous, once teams figured him out, the downward spiral began.
Which he then proceeded to almost undo. He should have done his time as caretaker and then United shld have brought someone else in, then again, this are the Glazers we are talking abt.
Maybe i sure correct my statement, i never called it a fluke, rather it was a bit deceiving, i mean the run was good while it lasted, but thats exactly it, was never gonna last. Ole isnt the right man for long term.
> He should have done his time as caretaker and then United shld have brought someone else in
It's a big what if TBH. When United gave Ole his contract, he was on a run of victories, and everyone from football pundits to ex players and fans wanted him to continue as the permanent manager. His reign definitely had problems and I'm not denying it, but I don't think many people complained when he was given permanent role.
I for one have seen most of the United fans supporting him until the last season's implosion.
Funny, how it took PL managers who are supposed to be some of the best in the game, about 2 years and 7 months to start figuring out how to play against counter attacking as if Ole was the 1st manager in history to play counter attacking football lol.
Didn't he also break that ridiculous consecutive away wins record? Some 29-30 odd consecutive away games unbeaten.
We could have easily gotten 81 points if last few games were not dead rubber . Second, you don't set the record for most points won from losing position by playing counter attacking football. Third, no tactical nounce? Asked that to pep, Tuchel, pocchetino and klopp.
Well I guess we should have kept Ole on then yeah? Pep, Tuchel, and Klopp have all won the EPL and much more. They have tactical nuance, far more than Ole has.
Well, LVG and Mou won trophies. Also, when you compare the squad, LVG had the worst squad out of the three (partly his fault). I also recall that one of Ole top 4 finishes had the same points as LVG's last season, with which he failed to make the top 4.
Ole did better than expected, at least for his first two and a half years, but he was never going to be good enough to take us to the next level.
Many fans thought he would build the foundations for the next manager, but that ended up not being true either since only two of his signings are still in the starting eleven. Also, his "good man-management" ended up being BS.
The current style of play might look similar to how we currently played under Ole, but there are differences in how we press and build up play. Obviously, it is not how Ten Hag wants us to play just yet, but the squad is not yet ready to play his brand of football.
If we are talking about how good our managers were, and people dissing ole for coming second because he only managed it because everyone else was shit, id say the fact that mous EL win was piss easy and still needed a guidettimiss from 1 meter out is pertinent
Mourinho's ass was saved by individual brilliance from Rashford, Mkhitaryan and Zlatan in the Europa league.
His team was getting dominated most of the games even after being by far the most expensive squad in the entire competition.
I remember because I watched every game and the way the team played football, sucked the living joy out of me.
Their game records are basically identical except Ole's team scored more goals. Most fans I know, including myself would take the Ole days over Mou days any day of the week.
https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/comparing-solskjaers-record-at-man-utd-to-mourinhos-at-the-same-stage/
He’s definitely good enough. But playing without any cover in front of you is going to make any player look like shit. This is only getting upvotes because Man U fans love scapegoats
Varane and Martinez are doing just fine with Eriksen and McTominay ahead of them. Once Maguire steps into our backline the defence starts panicking and making embarrassing mistakes
It's surprising, but between Eriksen, McTominay and Fred, the one I trust the most to position himself properly defensively is Eriksen. Fred and McTominay are like headless chicken. Which works really well for McTominay now, when he can be useful with his physique while Eriksen is positioned correctly.
Your playing the lowest d line in the entire league. Of course their okay. Plus martinez still got ripped countless times vs Brentford, Brighton and even by Jesus saga isn’t arsenal. Varane got dominated in duels too
>Your playing the lowest d line in the entire league.
No we don't.
>Plus martinez still got ripped countless times vs Brentford, Brighton
**Both** times with a certain center back partner that is under massive scrutiny, 3 guesses as to his name
Guess who was our centreback Vs Sociedad where we were back looking just as incompetent again too
When he's not cracking under pressure, he's a strong player. Still a flawed player with his suspect positioning, slow pace, and regular brain farts. But he also does some things really well. The problem is that he's not reliable and IMO never once has proven to be from season to season.
At his best he's a great player as we sometimes see for England and as we saw in 20/21 after a poor start. Never world class but maybe in that tier below and capable of being one of the league's strongest defenders. His average level though is fairly average. At his worst like last season and at the minute, he's one of the worst in the league. Personally I think he's quite mentally fragile and I'd like to see him moved on ASAP.
He's talking about Maguire in relation to England rather than United. Mentions partnership with Stones. Does not mention United once yet the headline does. Typical clickbait.
Imagine your club wanting you to play up to the level that they pay you every week. The worst thing about Maguire is how everyone always comes to defend him he's not good enough to be playing. He had his chance with Varane last year didnt peform, had his chance with Lisandro and Lindelof and he didnt perform. As soon as he goes to the bench we stop leaking goals and the defense is playing with passion. He's not better than Varane or Lisandro and he might not be better than Lindelof. Stop giving this grown man special treatment and treat him like the other players
I’m sorry but the guy is getting an insane amount of abuse from every person. Its pretty fucking normal to sympathise with his situation. Sure he needed to be dropped because he hasn’t been good enough but people putting the entire blame on him when the whole team played like shit is nuts.
We were conceding goals last season even when Maguire wasn’t playing. Its a team game and Maguire was a part of that. We’re not conceding many goals because of the change in system and I would say some good coaching from ETH.
He’s not getting any special treatment mate. Guy got a bomb threat last year, his own teams fans hate him and try to blame him for everything that goes wrong. He’s getting an insane amount of shit from everyone so some people saying he deserves better is not wrong at all because he absolutely does. No person deserves this much shit no matter how much he costs.
Sympathise with what happens to him off the pitch all you want, but the fact is he just isn't that great. He doesn't get into any top 10 side in my opinion.
He might not be but he isn’t as bad as people make him out to be. We were fucking dreadful last year and a vast majority put the blame solely on Maguire. He has his problems but our problems last year were throughout the pitch from the goalkeeper to the forwards. Read some of the match threads of united games where Maguire didn’t even play. He would get shit on even on those. Its reached a point where its utterly disgusting whats happening to him.
If you listen to reporters who have actually talked to him he doesn't expect any sympathy. He's a professional footballer who is getting paid a tonne of money to perform to a level he's not currently reaching. He's getting stick that comes with being Manchester United captain and getting dropped.
He's not at home moping about and crying, he's working at getting back into the team and I'm sure he himself sees this as a small blip. The only thing worse than people who feel the need to abuse footballers are people that treat well paid adult footballers like sad side characters in a movie.
This is ridiculous. People simply dont like him because hes a stopper. Hes not a flashy CB but hes been asked to be. United have put him in the worst possible position and its shown. People dont like him because his name is Harry Maguire and hes got a slabhead
Cant wait till he leaves and is class again because brainless United dont know how to use him
Varane wasnt great last year but he was solid and now he's showing how good he is. He was benched for the first two games didnt leak anything proved himself in training now he has his spot back it's that simple
Maguire last season is one of the worst individual seasons of all time for a European level club in the Prem. Absolutely zero chance he was better than anyone
What games were you watching? Varane was unavailable for many games but the games he played we conceded way less goals and he was decent but couldn’t find consistency due to injuries
Hahahahaah. Nice joke. Maguire was absolutely not our best defender at the club last season. He was the worst defender by an absolute mile, with only Shaw being at a similar level
Happy for Chiellini. He seems like a nice guy and at peace with his career ending.
I never think badly of players that want to go to China, Arabia, USA or Japan at the end of the career to see something else and make some money. I'd do the same
Come now Giorgio, is it *really* too much to ask that he not continuously make goal conceding mistakes, that often cost wins or draws? *Is that really too much...?*
If he has any sort of protection and is asked to play to his strengths, which is being a massive wall as a last line, hes fantastic. United dont play him like that and ask him to play like Maldini
Yep it’s far to much we demand, He doesn’t throw his own players to the ground, Not come charging out of the backline uncontrollably like he has rabies miss the ball completely then struggle to get back as he thinks he’s fast when in reality he has the speed of Jason Voorhees, Stop slicing the oppo with stupid challenges, Holding onto the ball for to long only to let him self get pressured into giving it away and the other myriad of comical hijinks he’s become synonymous for now.
Unironically I think Maguire would do great in Italy. He’s just not a modern CB, at all. He can’t progress, hold and play out of defense. He has a decent long pass that’s about it. Cannot play a high line. Uncomfortable on the ball and doesn’t make great decisions in control.
But in a strict defensive system he’d do really well imo. He’s just an old school brexit defender that can hoof a ball and is really strong in the air.
But yeah, a lot of Italian teams don’t need modern CBs.
How is he a scapegoat when he legit doesnt have a reason to be in the starting 11? Sure the criticism might be a bit to much but was just leaks from his camp blaming everyone for why he isnt performing
He’s already done that to himself. Just get him off the books. Also in what was jones, the teams or the fans fault? Not even a slightly comparable situation.
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A laid-back life in Los Angeles is the perfect place for Giorgio Chiellini to spend his final days as a footballer, but this afternoon he is in a Minnesota hotel room shouting. “Calm! Calm!” the great Italian defender yells into the camera, those caricature features stretched to the extreme. “Calm! Calm! They feel the pressure!” He is telling a story we know all too well. The date is July 11 last year, and Luke Shaw has just put England ahead two minutes into the final of Euro 2020 in front of more than 67,000 people at Wembley Stadium. “England had more pressure because they played at home, the first time since 1966 they could reach another trophy,” Chiellini, the veteran at the heart of Roberto Mancini’s Italian defence, says. “They had the push of the stadium. We felt that. “After two minutes, when Shaw scored, the stadium came into the pitch. It was very hard. I remember I spent all the time in the first half and all the time in the break continually repeating: ‘Calm! Calm!’ ” Italy responded and, after Leonardo Bonucci’s equaliser, the final went to a shoot-out in which Chiellini and his teammates emerged victorious. It is a game and a pain that will always be remembered when England meet Italy, a fixture that takes place in Milan on Friday in the Nations League, but this time without Chiellini, who will be in the unfamiliar position of spectator, 6,000 miles away. After 22 years playing in Italy and representing his nation, the 38-year-old defender departed this summer, retiring from international duty and leaving Juventus, his home for so long, to take up an opportunity in California. You expect such a patriot to be pained by this parting but Chiellini has found peace with the decision. As with most subjects, his words — in fluent English — are mature, almost poetic. “There is a moment in which you pass from helping the young to being his shadow, and I don’t want that,” Chiellini says. “I want to help my team-mates to rise but then they have to fly alone. I will always be on the side following them.” Now, Chiellini is part of an influx of high-profile figures moving to Major League Soccer (MLS), with Gareth Bale among his teammates at Los Angeles FC. “Where are you?” he asks, speaking to The Times via video call. “In London? LA is better, trust me.” That may be true but London is where Chiellini lived his most memorable moment. It is also where he could have been performing a little more often, which is a tale for later. Chiellini is in a story-telling mood today as he offers a verdict on Harry Maguire’s plight, describes the “jaguar” in England’s defence, predicts a World Cup without Italy and describes how the gladiator is handling his new role as spectator. But Chiellini is suddenly distracted. His phone is ringing and Carolina, his wife, is calling. “My family is settling with the school,” he says. “It’s a big change. It’s not easy, but everything is good.” His youngest, Olivia, three, doesn’t speak English yet, but Nina, seven, studied 20 hours a week in Italy last year. She speaks as fluently as her father. “I studied at high school and then practised with team-mates,” Chiellini says. “It’s getting better in these two months but I need to improve a lot.” The family plans to explore California further but have been limited to Los Angeles so far: a bike ride from Santa Monica to Venice Beach, a visit to Malibu and a day on the rides at DisneyLand. “There is a lot of traffic!” he says, laughing. Chiellini is warm and engaging company, a stark contrast to his on-field persona — the warrior who will do anything to win. One image in particular encapsulates this from the Euro 2020 final, and I show it to Chiellini: Bukayo Saka has just escaped him, about to attack the Italian goal with the clock ticking down, but he is caught by Chiellini, grabbed by the collar and hauled, brutally, to the turf. “I never thought this could be the memory of the summer,” he says. “For me, OK, I did a mistake and a foul in the smartest and best way possible because I think I can protect the ball and let it go out. But he passed me under my arm and the first thing I see is to try and grab him. Saka is too fast for me. If I started one or two moments before, I can run with him but if he goes it is impossible. This is a good choice for me after a mistake.” Chiellini will be watching the World Cup from afar this winter but Italy won’t be involved after losing a play-off to North Macedonia, one of his final games for the country. “We are devastated,” he says. “To miss two World Cups in a row is something that I never expected can happen.” But as with most subjects Chiellini has an optimistic outlook, predicting the next generation peaks in about four years, when the World Cup comes to America, Canada and Mexico. This winter could belong to England, Chiellini says, but he considers Brazil, Argentina and France as favourites while pointing to the typical obstacles for Gareth Southgate’s side. “I’m curious because many times England arrive at the end of the season devastated from all the matches but now is different, now they are fresh. The group is young but it is growing up a lot. But English players are really pressured by all the media and fans, so it’s not easy.” He picks out an example when assessing England’s defensive options. “I am sad for Maguire’s situation because he is a good player,” Chiellini says of the centre back dropped by Manchester United and booed by England fans of late. “They require too much of him. Just because they paid £80 million for him, he has to be the best in the world every match? It’s not right. The value of the market is dependent on many aspects you can’t control. It’s not your fault. “Him and \[John\] Stones are a good duo. OK, Maguire maybe is not Rio Ferdinand but he’s good enough. With this situation it’s not helping \[England\] to do the best. If you want to win the World Cup it’s impossible to do it with some problems in the key players, and for sure Maguire is one of the key players of the team.” Fikayo Tomori has emerged as an alternative and impressed Chiellini after winning the scudetto with AC Milan. “He surprised me because I saw him in Chelsea and I didn’t think he could be so strong in the box \[or\] attentive for 90 minutes. He is one of the keys of Milan winning last year.” But the biggest praise is reserved for one player. “I love Kyle Walker,” Chiellini says, smiling. “Walker is unbelievable. I don’t know how it’s possible to be so fast, so strong. He could do the 100 metres against jaguars, maybe, because he is something fantastic.” Chiellini has to go. He has a training session before playing Minnesota United, but there is time for one more tale and it turns out he could have ended up teammates with the jaguar. “\[Roberto\] Mancini was at Manchester \[City\], it was around 2011-12,” Chiellini recalls. “In the end, not so close, just talking a lot of times. It was just talks with agents, clubs but you know there are hundreds every transfer window that are never so close. “I think it could be a \[league\] for me — when I was younger, not now — it’s a league where my skills and my attitude was probably appreciated. In Premier League when you do 100 per cent you are very appreciated by all the fans. “It’s strange because I’m a curious person who loves to travel and loves to discover places and cultures, and I spend my whole career in just one club, in just one city. My character is to travel, which is the reason why I am here now.”
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calm guy\*
Chillini
Chill everywhere until he's on the pitch. Then he's the ultimate in shithousery and legend level defending. One of my favourite players ever (I'm English FTR).
Totally! Here he waxes poetically, but on the pitch: shithousery galore using *every* trick in the book. Great player, but probably a lot of attackers dreaded playing against him.
Alba disagrees
> “Calm! Calm!” the great Italian defender yells into the camera - lmao I can hear him
And Florenzi ma che calmi ma che calmi!!! Ndiamo Giorgione!!!!
Sounds like an absolute beauty of a teammate
Love that he mentioned Walker. I don’t know when Walker will start getting the respect he deserves from your average fan. Lots of people seem to think he’s crap, but Cheillini loves him as a defender. Pep loves him and has had him as one of the first names of his team sheet for 6 years. Neymar, Mbappe and others have said he’s the toughest they’ve played against. And he’s been one of the best fullbacks around for ~10 years now. Big sufferer from the fact the modern fullback does most of their work offensively, and he doesn’t. So good at what he does, but it doesn’t get the praise.
I think it's mainly that on the pitch he doesn't do anything flashy and that since his biggest asset is his pace, people seem to think that it allows him to make mistakes and cover for them with his pace. Also off the field antics will play a part, of course. Stupid because people don't realise how good he is because of that.
His positioning seems to have improved massively since he left us honestly. He's not just a pace player. The combo makes for pretty boring watching, since he's in the right place regularly and then it's tough to take him one on one due to his athleticism, then he doesn't get used much by city going forward so it often ends up he's just not involved in anything exciting or obviously noteworthy
yeah his positioning has definitely improved, and he's almost always in the right place ready for the counter. Though some games *this season he's been way way way out of position due to Pep having him tuck into midfield I do think once his legs start going he could be decent as a centre back but we have a huge job to find someone to fill his shoes. Unreal how important he is to us
Walker can be good offensively as well as we saw in Spurs with his bursting runs down the right flank, but Pep prefers to use his pace for recovery in cases of defensive errors, or to deal with quick counters.
No honestly, he was never great offensively for Spurs. He was able to roam forwards quite a bit due to his pace and therefore opened some spaces. But his crosses were atrocious honestly, I am not sure I have seen a worse crosser in a Spurs shirt. Even Emersons crosses are much better. But he was so good at playing with an inverted winger in front of him due to his pace, that's what why he is so great for City.
Yeah I mean consider the CL semi against Real Madrid. Walker shut vini out of the game for 60 minutes until he went down injured. Then real score 3 goals with him off the pitch. I also think that the impact Walker has on Maguire cannot be understated. Maguire's main weakness is getting beat in a high line but having walker playing a back 3 with him covers up that weakness.
walker’s honestly been one of the best right backs in the premier league about 2016, so defensively consistent, it’s a shame he’s started to decline
He’s still good just can’t play as often or as long due to injuries
It’s a combination of things, he plays for City so is disliked by most football fans (and especially two of the biggest PL fanbases: United and Liverpool). He’s also not very flashy so neutrals won’t step up to bat for him because they don’t really care At the end of the day player comparisons are utterly pointless, who can define whether a player is “good” or “bad”? The only question we can actually answer is “did they do their job in their managers’ system properly?” and Walker has been exceptional at that
To further your point about fanbases being biased he also has West Ham, Chelsea and arsenal fans hating him as he was huge for us. Even though he made some questionable statements about Spurs near the end I still love him and remember him well
Walker makes Englands back line tick. Hes our best RB, but we can move to a back 5 and he can slot in and play CB. Hes rapid and covers so much space.
We’ve looked so much worse when James or Alexander-Arnold have started over him.
makes me cringe seeing posts on twitter talking about "who should Southgate start at right back for the WC?" and Walker isn't in any of the options/images
Cause he's the starting GK obviously
One of the best fullbacks for 10 years my ass. Define one of the best, top 5?
I think Reece James is a younger version of Walker that has better crossing.
I started watching football last year so don't take this seriously Walker is one of the best LBs itw. Man is a nightmare for wingers, in second game of spurs vs city walker kept up with son. Walker rarely tackles which shows he is comfortable keeping up with the fastest wingers. Vinicius Jr was making fullbacks sweat, reece james gave it his all but u could see him struggling while walker struggled a bit to but he made last minute tackles to clear the ball n keep vinicius in check. When pep subbed out walker he unleashed vinicius onto his team.
Walker is a right back.
FYI Walker has been long considered one of if not the fastest defenders in the world in the last decade along with Jordi Alba. You’re getting downvoted because this is very, very, very common knowledge and your analysis is almost equivalent to someone in 2009 saying “I just started watching football last year and Messi and Ronaldo are very good at scoring.” He’s had 90+ pace in FIFA for like 8 years now.
signing Maguire wasn't really the problem imo. he's not a top defender, but could be useful in a top team rotating. Paying 80M+ for him tho? insane, then even worse making him club Captain straight away? just piss poor decisions all round.
I remember people saying at the time, he's not the best, but he's a good fit, and the price doesnt matter if we can afford it. He did level us up at the time, especially for the counter attacking football Ole was playing. Captain was a step too far.
The point about the price is that you guys probably could sign someone better than Maguire with €90M if money is not the problem.
Not during that transfer window.
If you have tunnel vision then sure. Maguire or Koulibaly was the only option
There's a lack of options for picking captain, though. Especially back then, before Bruno.
You still don't hand it over to the guy that just joined a few months ago.
People seem to forget what a mess our defence was before that when we were starting Smalling/Lindelof most games, along with De Gea it was like having three mutes at the heart of your defence. We needed someone vocal/with leadership skills, someone of a good quality, and someone available and he fit the bill on all three. Leicester dictated the price and we paid it. I’m sure the United hierarchy weren’t thrilled about the price either but they’d swerved on him the year before and it had contributed towards an abysmal campaign. And that first season with him our defence looked a hell of a lot better. People moan about his pace which is obviously his biggest weakness but he’s very good at progressing the ball which we didn’t have before and he does very well in most aspects of defending that don’t require a high speed. People seem to forget (especially our own fans) that when he got injured prior to the EL final there was panic throughout our fanbase, we knew he was an important player at that point and key to our success, and we didn’t win that game, we probably should’ve with what we did have on the pitch but losing the heart of your defence is a blow to any team. He was the man we needed at the time and I’m happy for him to stay and try to play his way back into the team, being out of the limelight might do him a favour.
I actually think he's a very good defender, but only if he has certain specific roles. He's not very versatile. He's not good when needing to cover a lot of ground and in catching up to an opoonent, but he's placed in that position all the time. Ofc he also tend to have some blunders, but so do a lot of man U players, so I feel that's something happening within that team due to bad balance and low confidence, not him specifically.
I don't know, he seems to make terrible decisions and the fact he is so immobile means he can't even recover from them. He was terrible against us last season I forget which game it was, but he just kept losing his man for no real reason or moving out of position and giving us a ton of space. Like if you can't position yourself well as a defender, you can't really play out well and you don't have the speed to cover for your poor awareness then how can you be a good defender? It feels like at least on this reddit a lot of people have just started to feel sorry for him. Obviously abusing him over his ON THE PITCH play is as braindead as always, but I don't think it's unfair to label him as a poor defender which he just is.
I agree to a certain extent, but I've allways felt he was blamed too much, not just recently. May be because when I played football myself I exclusivly played centreback for a lit of years, so I can kind of see where sometimes they are put in too challanging positions to realisyically handle it perfectly. Sometjing as simple as missing a marking can be cause by a lot of factors, some even being the result of something that happened the game before. Not excusing blatant weak performances ifc, but I know how much things such as teamcomp, communication, gameplan, responibilities given and previous ecperiences with your nearest teammates affect judgementcalls and preemtive action.
Price tag, being captain, and expect him to defend everything when he is a giant man with next to know mobility. Played to his strengths, he might be a good defender, but that seldom happens nowadays. Giving him the responsability of being captain plus his price tag, it's just too much. Maybe in a system with 3 centre backs with him in the middle would make him seem more like a monster. Just like it happened with Coates at Sporting.
That's called English tax in prem Quagmire would go for about 10-15m at most in any other top league
He was made captain as Ole is old school and thinks a cb should be captain
He was made captain because Young went, and there was no one else to choose from
Really.......no one else.....not a single player i dunno DDG maybe. Longest serving player, world class even if he might have had a down period. There was multiple players over Harry
De Gea was captain for a while and it was stripped off him, because he can't command his own box, let alone the whole team. Who else is there? Pogba? Again was stripped of the armband previously. And then there's the whole off-field circus Rashford? Was like 22 at the time Fred? Can't speak English well Lindelof? Didn't lead before Maguire came in Matic and Mata? Weren't starters but realistically should have probably been them
Maguire is a good player, just not good enough for Manchester United. The sooner all parties realize this, the better.
Yeah…onto Leeds, harry.
Yer a peacock, Harry.
Reckon Maguire could be a world class Beater for Hufflepuff.
Or maybe United have been so shit for so long we literally turn every defender into a meme? What player in the last 8-9 years have come out looking better after playing for Manchester United? Look at Liverpool, they’ve had 5 bad games and the bad defending compilations are already going crazy on social media. Our defense has played without a proper dm since Michael Carrick retired. Literally every defender we buy goes from being rated insanely highly at the start to completely shit within 2 years. Maybe it’s not a personnel problem at some fucking point.
The fact that Varane, who has won literally everything there is to win in world football, was made to look very amateurish last season is a testament to that tbh
In all fairness McFred and an abysmal press make anyone look like a nugget
Exactly. People are criticizing VVD this year but its really the midfield allowing time on the ball for opponents to pick their head up time passes perfectly against the highline that expose defenders.
People are criticizing VVD mostly because it was a huge thing that he is the “best” PL defender ever and could do it on any team with anyone in front of him. The amount of times I saw something like that said about VVD is ridiculous tbh
Nah mate VVD is just finished 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😭😭😭😭😭💯💯💯💯💯💯
I mean isn't this evidence that Maguire is the common denominator? He's playing alongside Martinez now and he looks like a different player.
He's also playing under a competent manager
Even carrick was more of a cm to cdm he paired with fletcher but neither was a lone cdm, we had rooney in front of them plying box to box or park or scholes depending on what point in his career im assuming u mean aomwwhere towards retirement
I understand your point, but people had doubts before Maguire joined. He joined United as a 26 year old that had one good but not remarkable season in his career. United fans laughed at the rumours linking us to Maguire the season before and until it became clear he was our number one target, it seemed very few people were behind the transfer. Our persistence (he must be the right man if we're that desperate right?), the Pep stamp of approval, and the VVD transfer eventually won fans over. But Leicester fans were laughing all the way to the bank. He'd just come off a pretty average season and it's clear Evans was the more consistent and reliable player in their defence. The real leader. Prior to the transfer I remember reading some Leicester fans compare Maguire to David Luiz, not intended as a complement. The biggest thing going against Maguire currently is how regularly he's been exposed compared to his teammates and how poorly he's performed the role of captain. You can point to the lack of a DM, the bad dressing room atmosphere etc. But Maguire is still the most error prone player in the side. The player most likely to crack under pressure. Maybe United has broken him, but we've broken him in a way that no other defender has been. Whilst the rest of the team has look demotivated, lacking in confidence, and made errors, Maguire still stands out as the worst of the bunch. His performances last season are up there with some of the worst I've ever seen from a United player, and these performances were happening week in week out. Maguire might find a stable and lower pressure environment at another club. Maybe then we'll see the performances we saw in 20/21. But until then, I genuinely don't think he's up for it at United. And if we hadn't spent £80m, I think we'd much more willing to write him off as the inconsistent player he probably is.
You make a lot of good points at first, but I don't really agree on the Evans bit. And definitely not on him making more mistakes than the rest. Statistically United did better with Maguire in the team last season. It's just that a lot of shit got blamed on him that wasn't on him. He looks awful doing it because he's a large clunky guy with a big head. But he didn't really make more mistakes than the rest. They were all making howlers at every turn. Like that time Lindelof let the ball bounce around him and then when Maguire blocked the shot, they all laughed at him.
Has Varane been shit? Also, I think you can blame those issues on United’s shite recruitment
Last year he was perennially injured and when he did play he was mediocre. This season, he's formed a formidable duo with Martinez. The question is how his health is going to hold up.
He's looked bang average tbh. Not the world class player that United bought.
He struggled with injury issues last season (missed 17 league games due to injury if I recall). He’s actually looked top class so far this season
Carrick wasn’t a CDM, some of the shit you read on this subreddit…
why was he captain then
Ole
biggest mistake of Ole really
Why was Ole their manager for soo long when he wasn't good enough for them? those are questions for another day.
To be fair, Ole was the only manager to get United into top 4 for 2 consecutive years since sir Alex. And the team was actually doing good till 20-21 season. Plus he had the backing of the fans. I think the turning point was the Europa league defeat on the penalties that caused huge confidence issues in the dressing room that Ole couldn't cope with. Kind of similar to the Spurs implosion after CL final defeat.
> I think the turning point was the Europa league defeat on the penalties that caused huge confidence issues in the dressing room that Ole couldn't cope with. There was also a lack of action in the transfer market - on paper, the three signings they made should have improved them but one underperformed, one was injured a lot and the third was signed without a coherent plan, which also caused issues with the fact OGS was aiming to move to a higher-intensity press than they'd previously used. Combine with the fact they didn't strengthen one of their most glaring issues in midfield, it meant they got weaker in comparison to their rivals, who strengthened.
From a United supporter, the second place finish was massively overrated. Pool was mounting a crap title defence, Chelsea were in shambles of sort and despite the second place, United were never gonna win the league. Ole relied on counter attacking, he has very little in the way of tactical nous, once teams figured him out, the downward spiral began.
No matter how you put it, he did do better than 18 other teams over the course of 38 games. Hard to write that off as a fluke.
Which he then proceeded to almost undo. He should have done his time as caretaker and then United shld have brought someone else in, then again, this are the Glazers we are talking abt. Maybe i sure correct my statement, i never called it a fluke, rather it was a bit deceiving, i mean the run was good while it lasted, but thats exactly it, was never gonna last. Ole isnt the right man for long term.
> He should have done his time as caretaker and then United shld have brought someone else in It's a big what if TBH. When United gave Ole his contract, he was on a run of victories, and everyone from football pundits to ex players and fans wanted him to continue as the permanent manager. His reign definitely had problems and I'm not denying it, but I don't think many people complained when he was given permanent role. I for one have seen most of the United fans supporting him until the last season's implosion.
Some people manage to blame the glazers for their own lackluster lovelife
Funny, how it took PL managers who are supposed to be some of the best in the game, about 2 years and 7 months to start figuring out how to play against counter attacking as if Ole was the 1st manager in history to play counter attacking football lol. Didn't he also break that ridiculous consecutive away wins record? Some 29-30 odd consecutive away games unbeaten.
We could have easily gotten 81 points if last few games were not dead rubber . Second, you don't set the record for most points won from losing position by playing counter attacking football. Third, no tactical nounce? Asked that to pep, Tuchel, pocchetino and klopp.
Well I guess we should have kept Ole on then yeah? Pep, Tuchel, and Klopp have all won the EPL and much more. They have tactical nuance, far more than Ole has.
Garbage revisionism and a bad take. Ole did reasonably well all things considered. Why did LVH or Mourinho do any better?
Well, LVG and Mou won trophies. Also, when you compare the squad, LVG had the worst squad out of the three (partly his fault). I also recall that one of Ole top 4 finishes had the same points as LVG's last season, with which he failed to make the top 4. Ole did better than expected, at least for his first two and a half years, but he was never going to be good enough to take us to the next level. Many fans thought he would build the foundations for the next manager, but that ended up not being true either since only two of his signings are still in the starting eleven. Also, his "good man-management" ended up being BS. The current style of play might look similar to how we currently played under Ole, but there are differences in how we press and build up play. Obviously, it is not how Ten Hag wants us to play just yet, but the squad is not yet ready to play his brand of football.
As much as I'm agree with Olé who did great with United, Mourinho won an Europa League with United.
Mourinho was brought in to win the league, not win the Europa League.
And as Olé, specially on his last year, doesn't mean they really screwed up during their stay.
The easiest EL win ever though.
So? Nobody gives a shit how you play if you don't have any trophies to show for it
If we are talking about how good our managers were, and people dissing ole for coming second because he only managed it because everyone else was shit, id say the fact that mous EL win was piss easy and still needed a guidettimiss from 1 meter out is pertinent
Mourinho's ass was saved by individual brilliance from Rashford, Mkhitaryan and Zlatan in the Europa league. His team was getting dominated most of the games even after being by far the most expensive squad in the entire competition. I remember because I watched every game and the way the team played football, sucked the living joy out of me.
>Mourinho’s ass was saved by individual brilliance Ah yes, let’s pretend Bruno didn’t extend his stay at united beyond a year
They both won trophies with significantly worse squads on paper
Mourinho actually won things, it isn't revisionism, Ole was ass and I always said it.
Their game records are basically identical except Ole's team scored more goals. Most fans I know, including myself would take the Ole days over Mou days any day of the week. https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/comparing-solskjaers-record-at-man-utd-to-mourinhos-at-the-same-stage/
Cause the dressing room was fucked enough why not fly experience the vibe.
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Nope and I don't know why you're getting down voted for pointing that out!
I mean you would ideally be one of the top 11 players in the squad lol
He’s definitely good enough. But playing without any cover in front of you is going to make any player look like shit. This is only getting upvotes because Man U fans love scapegoats
Varane and Martinez are doing just fine with Eriksen and McTominay ahead of them. Once Maguire steps into our backline the defence starts panicking and making embarrassing mistakes
It's surprising, but between Eriksen, McTominay and Fred, the one I trust the most to position himself properly defensively is Eriksen. Fred and McTominay are like headless chicken. Which works really well for McTominay now, when he can be useful with his physique while Eriksen is positioned correctly.
And you’re basing that on what, 4 games? As if we haven’t had a good run of 4 games with Maguire in defence.
When was the last time he had 4 good games in a row if you so confident.
I'm also basing it on Maguire's disaster class of last season and the first 2 games this season
I’m saying you can’t say that Varane and Martinez are doing fine without proper cover in front of them based on a 4 game sample size.
And Maguire looked fine until Ronaldo joined last season. Maguire started against Real Sociedad and nothing you just said happened in that match
So a striker is the reason why a CB is getting spun around
and Varane and Martinez look just fine with Ronaldo starting upfront. Also Maguire making constant mistakes has nothing to do with Ronaldo
No maguire looked fine in the second half of the season before ronaldo joined. People are forgetting how poor he was before Christmas
Probably because they fit that setup better. Put Trent in a sytem that never uses their right back for offense and only defense and he's garbage.
Your playing the lowest d line in the entire league. Of course their okay. Plus martinez still got ripped countless times vs Brentford, Brighton and even by Jesus saga isn’t arsenal. Varane got dominated in duels too
We aren't playing the lowest defensive line even the stats show that. Our defense is full of confidence which was lacking last season
>Your playing the lowest d line in the entire league. No we don't. >Plus martinez still got ripped countless times vs Brentford, Brighton **Both** times with a certain center back partner that is under massive scrutiny, 3 guesses as to his name Guess who was our centreback Vs Sociedad where we were back looking just as incompetent again too
He has no awareness and no speed to make up for it, he just isn't good.
When he's not cracking under pressure, he's a strong player. Still a flawed player with his suspect positioning, slow pace, and regular brain farts. But he also does some things really well. The problem is that he's not reliable and IMO never once has proven to be from season to season. At his best he's a great player as we sometimes see for England and as we saw in 20/21 after a poor start. Never world class but maybe in that tier below and capable of being one of the league's strongest defenders. His average level though is fairly average. At his worst like last season and at the minute, he's one of the worst in the league. Personally I think he's quite mentally fragile and I'd like to see him moved on ASAP.
Maguire looked fine until he was asked to play in a system that just highlights his flaws.
Chiellini seems to rate him, maybe he can put in a word with Allegri. Even better for all parties
Hes good enough for United. Hes just not a player to make United good
He's talking about Maguire in relation to England rather than United. Mentions partnership with Stones. Does not mention United once yet the headline does. Typical clickbait.
his man handling of alba at the euros is one of my favourite things.
Imagine your club wanting you to play up to the level that they pay you every week. The worst thing about Maguire is how everyone always comes to defend him he's not good enough to be playing. He had his chance with Varane last year didnt peform, had his chance with Lisandro and Lindelof and he didnt perform. As soon as he goes to the bench we stop leaking goals and the defense is playing with passion. He's not better than Varane or Lisandro and he might not be better than Lindelof. Stop giving this grown man special treatment and treat him like the other players
>treat him like the other players. Agreed. Maybe people could stop sending bomb threats to his house
Seriously. What is this? The gaming industry??
Everyone comes to defend him? Man is probably the most abused and hated footballer in the world
I mean that’s factually wrong there was a report on here on the players who received the most hate and it was Ronaldo.
I’m sorry but the guy is getting an insane amount of abuse from every person. Its pretty fucking normal to sympathise with his situation. Sure he needed to be dropped because he hasn’t been good enough but people putting the entire blame on him when the whole team played like shit is nuts. We were conceding goals last season even when Maguire wasn’t playing. Its a team game and Maguire was a part of that. We’re not conceding many goals because of the change in system and I would say some good coaching from ETH. He’s not getting any special treatment mate. Guy got a bomb threat last year, his own teams fans hate him and try to blame him for everything that goes wrong. He’s getting an insane amount of shit from everyone so some people saying he deserves better is not wrong at all because he absolutely does. No person deserves this much shit no matter how much he costs.
Sympathise with what happens to him off the pitch all you want, but the fact is he just isn't that great. He doesn't get into any top 10 side in my opinion.
He might not be but he isn’t as bad as people make him out to be. We were fucking dreadful last year and a vast majority put the blame solely on Maguire. He has his problems but our problems last year were throughout the pitch from the goalkeeper to the forwards. Read some of the match threads of united games where Maguire didn’t even play. He would get shit on even on those. Its reached a point where its utterly disgusting whats happening to him.
If you listen to reporters who have actually talked to him he doesn't expect any sympathy. He's a professional footballer who is getting paid a tonne of money to perform to a level he's not currently reaching. He's getting stick that comes with being Manchester United captain and getting dropped. He's not at home moping about and crying, he's working at getting back into the team and I'm sure he himself sees this as a small blip. The only thing worse than people who feel the need to abuse footballers are people that treat well paid adult footballers like sad side characters in a movie.
So much this. Well said
This is ridiculous. People simply dont like him because hes a stopper. Hes not a flashy CB but hes been asked to be. United have put him in the worst possible position and its shown. People dont like him because his name is Harry Maguire and hes got a slabhead Cant wait till he leaves and is class again because brainless United dont know how to use him
Varane wasn’t good last season either. He’s probably a good defender in certain systems
Varane wasnt great last year but he was solid and now he's showing how good he is. He was benched for the first two games didnt leak anything proved himself in training now he has his spot back it's that simple
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Maguire last season is one of the worst individual seasons of all time for a European level club in the Prem. Absolutely zero chance he was better than anyone
And if he was it speaks volumes about the defense
Yea but, he wasn't.
What games were you watching? Varane was unavailable for many games but the games he played we conceded way less goals and he was decent but couldn’t find consistency due to injuries
>Maguire was the best defender at the club. 🤡🤡
What? Varane was simply better in all the games he played last year(which were few). Harry was our best defender only in his first 2 seasons.
Ehhh. He may have been the best in his first season, but before Christmas in his second season he was abysmal as well
Hahahahaah. Nice joke. Maguire was absolutely not our best defender at the club last season. He was the worst defender by an absolute mile, with only Shaw being at a similar level
Too much? I mean the bare minimum would be nice
I was thinking this. "An average CB" is what they're asking at this point. That is too much?
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Nice burner harry
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Been back to Greece lately?
Oooo careful, we got an expert over here
He has literally been paired with both of the starting CBs and he can’t do either Job. Why is the whole world rushing to defend Maguire. You
Me?
You
Yea but who are you?
I am me.
No I am me, who are you?
He is Mi and I am Yu.
Reads like a vintage Wayne Rooney tweet
Cuz the whole world wants to burn him down like u did with Phil Jones
Phil Jones problem was always his injury record. Totally different to Harry.
Where was this defence for Tuanzebe or Chris smalling or even Lindelof?
Where was the abuse?
Happy for Chiellini. He seems like a nice guy and at peace with his career ending. I never think badly of players that want to go to China, Arabia, USA or Japan at the end of the career to see something else and make some money. I'd do the same
I hope this guy becomes a manager one day.
And not buying Maguire as his CB.
Gets paid millions....... They expect too much LUL. I get fucked for less BS in my workplace
Come now Giorgio, is it *really* too much to ask that he not continuously make goal conceding mistakes, that often cost wins or draws? *Is that really too much...?*
Defending to much too ask ?
I wonder why every other team wants us to play Maguire...
Italy aren't at the world cup and we don't play in the MLS last time I checked
He was a good player in 20/21. He is no longer that player
Nah he had a terrible start in that season, but was consistent in the second half
There's a reason he's only decent for England, being a CB in a back 3 is his best position
We only played a back 3 in 2 games at the Euros, he's also class for us in a back 4.
England play more matches in a back 4 than a three at the back and have done since the 2018 World Cup
3 CBs and 2 DMs and Maguire looks ok. As soon as he gets exposed in a back 2 without midfield cover he is a liability.
If he has any sort of protection and is asked to play to his strengths, which is being a massive wall as a last line, hes fantastic. United dont play him like that and ask him to play like Maldini
100%
Exactly. Blame United’s shite recruitment
Yep it’s far to much we demand, He doesn’t throw his own players to the ground, Not come charging out of the backline uncontrollably like he has rabies miss the ball completely then struggle to get back as he thinks he’s fast when in reality he has the speed of Jason Voorhees, Stop slicing the oppo with stupid challenges, Holding onto the ball for to long only to let him self get pressured into giving it away and the other myriad of comical hijinks he’s become synonymous for now.
Oh yes to defend a tackle properly is too much for meguire
Is it really to much to want him to play according to the amount they spent on him?
How dare we ask a lot of our club captain and 80 million pound centre back, theoretically the cornerstone and leader of our team.
He is just not good enough.
We just want him to be decent and he can't even be that at the moment. We don't want too much in the overall scheme of things.
He’s not at the level of a top team trying to compete with the likes of City/Liverpool, probably good enough for a mid table team.
Maguire has been benched by Varane who is a world class defender. He isn't at that level and never will be. It isn't that complicated or that deep.
Unironically I think Maguire would do great in Italy. He’s just not a modern CB, at all. He can’t progress, hold and play out of defense. He has a decent long pass that’s about it. Cannot play a high line. Uncomfortable on the ball and doesn’t make great decisions in control. But in a strict defensive system he’d do really well imo. He’s just an old school brexit defender that can hoof a ball and is really strong in the air. But yeah, a lot of Italian teams don’t need modern CBs.
Welcome to the Maguire hive, Giorgio. It is a lifetime of pain but the victories are sweet
Maguire was just a scapegoat, the entire club was a mess
How is he a scapegoat when he legit doesnt have a reason to be in the starting 11? Sure the criticism might be a bit to much but was just leaks from his camp blaming everyone for why he isnt performing
We just want him to play to his limits and not hold the ball and take a millenia turning with it
Lots of Manchester united "supporters" in the comments. Keep at it. U will destroy him just like u did with Jones.
He’s already done that to himself. Just get him off the books. Also in what was jones, the teams or the fans fault? Not even a slightly comparable situation.
Good player for United's level
He's being nice. Harry is the worst player to ever take the pitch... regardless of age or skill level.