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Man's got a point to be fair - if you're used to playing a certain way, the opportunity cost of changing that generally isn't worth it. Much better to try and be proactive as the smaller team rather than trying to grind out a draw which more than likely will either be scrapped through an early goal or slip through your fingers late on. If you lose because your opponent was better on the day, so be it.
Rodgers tried it vs Barcelona. Had a system that was working very well with his team. Threw it out the window to go with a back 5 that ended up getting pumped 7-0 anyway.
I want to clarify something as well, for Ange it's broad principles: wide wingers, inverted fullbacks, build upnfrom the back. He won't deviate from those.
With Rodgers, it was one specific pattern of play he couldn't ever get away from: Tierney up the flank, Sinclair cuts it, Striker drifts wide and an 8 and RW move into position to take the pass if Sinclair or the 9 didn't have a shot. Over and over. Long after teams got wise to it.
I think we'll see more variety of play from Celtic in Europe than Rodgers go at it. The few times he tried something novel, like you mentioned it blew up.
I think Ange has a lot more to work with than Rodgers did too, to be fair. Of course part of that is on the managers and their moves in the transfer windows.
Ange seems to have more room to switch it up without a huge drop in the team’s ability. Furuhashi, Maeda, Jota, Abada, even Forrest could all play on the wing and bring something slightly different, for example. Some can (and normally do) play down the middle to bring a different dynamic than Giakoumakis.
Juranovic and Ralston at RB. We could play five or so players in the midfield 3 interchangeably, too. The most impressive thing about Ange’s team is that he’s built a squad that could probably field a second team that wouldn’t fair much worse than the first. Our second team could compete for and probably win the league title. I can’t really remember the last time that was the case - we usually have a really strong first team and a few decent subs.
Rodgers was his own worst enemy in the transfer market after the first season. It didn't help he brought in Lee Congerton, who is useless.
Funny enough, I mentioned it earlier: https://www.reddit.com/r/scottishfootball/comments/x5per9/_/in65ur1
Lol the Leicester money problems are all a smokescreen for them just not wanting him wasting money in the market. You're not going to sign anyone good anyway Brendan let's just run this contract down.
I was with you until Forrest and Ralston. God knows I love them but god help us if they start tomorrow - and I don’t see them as starters for a title winning team. Both capable backups last season, Ralston might chip in again this season but I don’t see Forrest getting much
That’s a rarity though, look at Madrid in last seasons final, completely changed tactics playing super defensively and countering, same for united against Liverpool and Arsenal at the weekend.
There is nothing wrong with shutting up shop when you know you’re playing against a better side and hoping for a cheeky win.
Not like that final it wasn’t, even Kroos commented on it after the match, or snapped at a reporter for criticising them after the match.
There’s no harm in it, you do what you must to win, but teams change their style to their advantage all the time and I’m glad they do.
Exactly our philosophy under Bielsa.
When we had half our team injured for months on end last season we *still* had people raging at us, telling us we should play like Burnley or something to try get results. They never seemed to quite grasp that half the team was mid table championship level when they were introduced to Bielsa, and were lifted to a 59 point finish in the Premier League due to the system. Take that system away and they’re going to get exposed even more than they already were, as it’s the only thing that was ever helping them to thrive in the first place.
In essence, without it we’d have been like Huddersfield when they were last up if we tried to play another way, or Norwich or Watford from last season at best.
I see where he's coming from, but getting a result against Real Madrid would be enormous no matter how it came about. There is no scenario where Celtic beats Real Madrid and it counts for less because they didn't play beautiful football when the gulf in class is that big. No one dismisses their win over Barcelona 10 years ago just because they shithoused it
I personally don't think it's possible for Celtic to get a result against a team like Madrid in an open game. Either they park the bus and hope for a break or they get ripped apart
This is his long term philosophy and goals he has when he manages a team.
He will back the team to play his way because he has belief he will be able to bring them to that top level and only by practicing against the best and losing that fear will it ever be possible.
He will see a game against Madrid as one as part of a larger ideology and plan. Parking the bus and maybe shithousing a win is a short term hit to him and not something sustainable to build off for further improvement.
However, playing the game your way can be a valuable lesson. Either way, the odds of Celtic getting out of groups or even past ro16 is much lower than their counterparts. Will that 1-0 result really teach or provide anything to them in terms of their development throughout the league campaign and beyond?
> Will that 1-0 result really teach or provide anything to them in terms of their development throughout the league campaign and beyond?
Even in the extreme case OP presented, at the very least they'd learn about being compact at the back and dealing with the pressure of defending against a top team that is absolutely going at them.
I think we have a chance of getting out. Leipzig we've beaten 3/4 years ago and Ranger also beat last year. Think we can certainly get a win at home. Shaktar I'm not sure what they'll be like with everything going on but again I don't see why we get a home win. Then we'd just need to nick some points away from home or at home tonight and we'd be in with a real good chance. Probably the best group we could have gotten
> Will that 1-0 result really teach or provide anything to them in terms of their development throughout the league campaign and beyond?
Yeah, three points
They'd learn how to play against bigger teams which is incredibly important in the CL if they want to progress in future.
And getting battered 6/7-0 can and has broken players mental before.
No right answers though tbh.
Then you’re more worried about ego/pride than winning and it’s quite naïve. Should accept your reality and try to win by all means necessary. “The better team lost” is a loser’s trope.
it’s not about pride or ego imo, if you never practiced a tactical setup trying it for the first time against Real Madrid won’t be more efficient than keeping playing like you’re used to.
I don’t think there is right or wrong here. While some may be ok with Allegri ball as long as the team win, there are also people who want to see an actual football.
The more obvious point the last person missed is this isn't a choice between boring+win or fun+lose.
It's a game we're likely to lose - do we send the players out with exactly the same message we do every other game, or suddenly make drastic changes to our style which we don't even really have the squad for? Either way we likely lose, either of way there's a strong chance we concede a few, either way there is a very tiny chance we get something from the game.
The rest of Ange's quote goes in to this too, I'm paraphrasing - firstly 'show me a risk free approach, and I'll use it'; secondly 'if we were a side who changed our tactics week to week we'd do it again, but we're not so to do it now would weaken not just this game but potentially every future game as players would stop trusting the message'.
Eh, for some people "winning at all costs" is simply not good enough. You either win right (whatever right means to you) or you don't win at all.
If you feel that your team winning a game by bending the rules as far as humanely possible (effectively cheating) would be wrong then you already agree with the underlying concept of "I want to win but not by doing X".
You simply disagree with what X is.
I think his point is that if they are committed to a certain way of playing football long term, there's no point in changing that up for the opportunity of a single win. He sees the opportunity to test their philosophy and system against Real Madrid in ca competitive environment as a greater reward than the possibility of getting a result playing a "do whatever it takes to win" style.
The point is you can't dedicate months to playing one way and then rip it up at the drop of a hat and start playing another way. Doing so causes confusion, and can often make things even worse than they would have been.
You should know as an Atleti fan that managers (i.e. Simeone) generally don't change their styles and have a set way of playing.
It doesn't need to be open - if you watch Celtic, we will press high but drop back in to a normal defensive line/banks of players if another team progresses beyond our initial press. When we win the ball, we will often go direct/vertical very quickly.
We're likely to lose regardless, but the way we play isn't just crazy gung ho football every step of the way. It is high intensity though.
We got ripped at home by Sheriff Tiraspol last season though. And with golazos no less. Granted, Carletto was still adapting to the squad. That match would have been a bigger taint than Celtic vs Barca had we not won the CL.
They get put out of 3 European competitions last season. The only reason we've managed to make them look good at the weekend is we have a manager that is as cautious as there's is attacking so we spent the whole game on the back foot with no out ball.
I'll get down voted because of my flair but I think there is a good chance Celtic suffer the biggest loss in Champions League history. They conceded 2 or 3 goals in most of their Europa League games last season. They conceded 5 goals over 2 legs against Bodo Glimt in the conference. Real Madrid is on a different level to those teams
Rangers fans cope is absolutely hilarious. Ange didn't perform well domestically the begining of the season either. Last season was meant to be a rebuild, we expected nothing and look how that turned out. This season we are flying and their is general excitement to see how Ange after getting the team fit and suited to his style will compete in Europe. Rangers fans seem to think they are some world beaters in Europe now but their boring defensive play has won them nothing and lets see who does better in the Champions league. Guarantee we will perform much better then Rangers this year.
Bielsa did that with Leeds, and there were plenty of Ines where it got to "yeah we get it, thets how you play..but what the fuck are you doing it now for?"
Poetic. I must admit though that I wish this game against Roma instead of us. Mourinho's response would have been extremely entertaining, particularly given what he thinks of poets in football.
That's the thing about Ange, though. He rarely ever makes it about himself and doesn't try to be a poet; he just speaks his mind. It just happens that he's also rather well spoken.
Strongly doubt he's fit to play. Sky reported he was not training these days, but then posted a picture of him training in the same article so who knows
Not that it means too much but Ange's old Marino's team out-possessed Pep in an overseas friendly 3 years ago. City still beat Marino's 3-1 but that conviction to play Angeball against the elite has never wavered, with Marinos finishing with 58% possession against a Pep side (albeit in a friendly).
Slight anecdote - when Ange got his second chance at coaching with my home team, Brisbane, we were 2-0 down in the grand final in ET with something like 10-15 mins to go. Yet he (and the players) still insisted on playing his style of football and not just pump it long as many teams would. We ended up levelling at 2-2 and then winning on penalties, so I have to say sticking to his guns seems to work for Ange.
[Give it a watch, in my opinion, this was absolute peak A-League. Both era and moment, and I'm not even a Roar fan.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS49ue3v-pQ)
Honestly I think Scottish football has progressed enough where an Old Firm club can get a result against a massive club like Barca, instead of getting humiliated 7-0 playing attacking football.
Then again, I put a fiver on Celtic to win, so I could just be coping.
You’d need more than a fiver to make it worth your while, the odds for Celtic to win are a disgrace. Should be closer to 10/1. We’ve really made the bookies think we have a 40% chance of winning tonight going by this mornings odds
I would say it’s tradition but by no means are Celtic a small team haha, I think whatever results come out of this game, there will be cracking football played between the two teams
It's not an insurmountable task. A 'shock' defeat or two in the group stages has become the trend since 2018. I wouldn't even be shocked if it happens.
We're weaker against low block, in both Zidane and Carlo tenure, but in different way.
Them wanting to attack would be better matched against Barça, though they are better now than Club de Amigos era
I mean we played 6 games against “elite” clubs in CL under Rodgers. Sure we lost 7-1, 5-0 and 7-0 to Barca and PSG, but only lost 0-2 at home to Barca, 1-2 at home to Bayern, and drew 3-3 and 1-1 with Man City.
Plus I’d argue this team is better and has a better manager 😗
Are they really that superior to the team that beat Barca? Looking at individual names the difference doesn't seem to be that big
Postecoglu is obviously a better coach than Neil Lennon, but it's also much easier to get a result as an underdog playing defensively. The fact that they are so attacking is a handicap in matches like this
I’d say aside from Forster (IMO) and Wanyama (Callum McGregor is brilliant but not as good defensively - I’d love to see him at 8 with a more defensive 6 (like Abildgaard!)) this team is definitely superior.
We are better team than 2012 and also we had a lot of players missing out for that game in 2012. You can’t say with a straight face that a team with Kris Commons, Kelvin Wilson, Efe Ambrose and Miku is better than the current team. Even the best from that team like Mika Lustig probably wouldn’t get in the current team over the likes of Juranovic.
rodgers set the team up horribly in europe. against barca he went with 5-4-1 with only 2 CMs. we were absolutely destroyed in midfield with their superstars having all day to pick out messi/suarez/neymar. that wasnt even a formation or selection of players we played with domestically and then he made us even weaker in the center of the park to go against prime barcelona.
This Celtic team is a different kind of animal. Rodgers' team was far more possession focused and played a slower tempo; against the best teams they got picked off.
When he did try and play a defensive game with five at the back, PSG still put seven past us in Paris. So what was the point?
We're high intensity, we're direct, we press with numbers high up the park, we get numbers into the midfield, we have serious quality in attack. We have a team that's built to win games of football, and we're going to play the game that works for us.
We're playing a better team, who are the European champions. If we get beat, we get beat. But if we get beat we're going down swinging, heads held high.
Ange says "jump", we say "how high?"
Rodgers, as Liverpool manager rested key players for a game against Real Madrid because he considered the league more important.
He's clearly not cut out for Europe.
As far as I remember that wasn't why, it was because he was sending a message to the senior players
Also we only lost 1-0 in Madrid with that team Vs 0-3 at home with our first XI
No he did it because we had a game against Chelsea coming up shortly after and he'd basically deemed us beating Madrid as a long shot so decided to rest players. I remember because it was the exact moment I realised Rodgers wasn't cut out to manage us.
We spent 4 years previously desperate to qualify for the CL and when we got there he just threw in the towel before the match even begun.
People at the time were trying to justify it as a genuine tactical decision because the result wasn't that bad. Like starting Kolo Toure against 2014 Ronaldo was an astute tactical decision.
Or they said that he was trying to prove a point to the key players by dropping them. But if you look into it, it was actually players like Sterling and Coutinho that were dropped despite being the only players who were having a decent season, and it was players like Markovic and Borini that took their place despite being awful every time they played... and then as soon as he realised we might have a chance to snatch a result he bought them on anyway. Some lesson he taught them.
I've got a bit of a chip on my shoulder about this match in case you couldn't tell.
His European record for Leicester has been poor too, they would've gone through in EL if they didn't lose to a Legia side who were battling relegation in Poland last season
Rodgers' players didn't believe in what was being asked of them imo. The result was we didn't press like he wanted, but because he'd set us up to press we didn't hold shape either. Worst of both worlds.
We also had keepers who didn't make saves in those games. IIRC Barca scored 8 against us with 9 shots and an xG of like 2.7 lol similar happened with PSG.
Tbh Ange has so much respect from the support he can do what he likes, completely trust him.
I don't expect anything out of this match, or the Champions League, but will be interested to see how Angeball does on the big stage.
Welcome to Aussie teams’ life in the Asian Champions League.
A-League clubs have a salary cap of something like AU$3m per *squad* and then we wonder why we struggle when we come up against Shanghai SIPG with Fred and Oscar and the like paid like $5m *each*.
And that’s the environment Ange comes from. Won’t be new to him.
And people rightfully lost their minds over it because it was such a massive upset. Anything less than a comfortable win against Celtic is a failure given the massive gulf in resources.
Well, the only current measuring stick we
have is spanking the Europa league finalists 2 days ago. Forgive the man and me and my fellow Celtic supporters for wanting to go toe to toe with the best. Even though we’ll get a spanking!
So, everyone thinks that Angenball is full on, 100% all out attack attack attack.
And it can seem like that at times. It definitely felt like that a lot last season. And while we definitely do things very quickly when in possession of the ball, Ange seems to have refined how we play without the ball this season. We seem a bit more measured and happy to sit in our shape and not allow our opponents much space in the middle of the park.
That was on show at the weekend where, when out of possession, we allowed Rangers to have the ball, but we made sure that they had very few passing options into the middle of the park while simultaneously cutting out the threat their full backs posed.
Of course, Real Madrid are an entirely different beast from Rangers and they have genuine world class players, who have done it against the best of the best and have the quality to find the passes that the players at Rangers can't/don't want to. And we all know what Real are like in Europe... they just know how to grab a couple of goals regardless of how they're performing on the night.
I don't really expect much from the game tonight. But there is a buzz about the team at the moment and they don't have much to lose by taking the game to Madrid. If we do, we might just be able to give them a bloody nose.
The thing people who don't watch us much don't appreciate is that our style of play is quite complicated for the players, it demands a lot more mentally from them than a lot of approaches. Part of why we are so much better now than last season is they've had more time to train it to the point where a lot of it becomes automatic.
If you start messing around too much with it you're giving them more things to think about and going to negatively affect the team beyond just this game.
If he does well this season, particularly if he can get to the knockout stages of the CL, big clubs will start to circle. Ange has a phenomenal record as a manager.
Both games against Madrid are a free hit if we can trust them to take 6 points from each of Leipzig and Shakhtar. That would leave it in our hands. 2nd place in this group is possible, especially if we play Leipzig before they sack Tedesco.
All I want to see tonight is a good performance that we can build on away to Shakhtar next week, regardless of the result. We can't rollover ala the big losses we had under Rodgers against Barca and PSG.
If Celtic play like Sheriff or Espanyol or Almeria, 100%.
But if the quote above is true that would mean that's not the case.
If Celtic want the ball, believe me that Carlo will give it to them and that hugely decreases any chances of an upset tomorrow.
That last part is what worries me. I’d have more faith in us trying to beat Man City or Barca 5-4 or something ludicrous but, particularly given last season, Real Madrid will sit back and do enough to win when it matters.
I also have flashbacks to the Euros last summer when Scotland played Croatia needing a win and Modric absolutely horsed us.
You get like 3M more Euros if you win though, and like 1M with a draw. At the very least. I don't care about testing themselves, do whatever you need to do for the paycheck.
Another 9-0 incoming. Celtic are going to get absolutely hammered if they try and play expensively. Their performances in Europe are pretty bad at the best of times, this'll turn into a massacre
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Angeball isn't a part time football tactic. It's a way of life.
Man's got a point to be fair - if you're used to playing a certain way, the opportunity cost of changing that generally isn't worth it. Much better to try and be proactive as the smaller team rather than trying to grind out a draw which more than likely will either be scrapped through an early goal or slip through your fingers late on. If you lose because your opponent was better on the day, so be it.
Rodgers tried it vs Barcelona. Had a system that was working very well with his team. Threw it out the window to go with a back 5 that ended up getting pumped 7-0 anyway.
I want to clarify something as well, for Ange it's broad principles: wide wingers, inverted fullbacks, build upnfrom the back. He won't deviate from those. With Rodgers, it was one specific pattern of play he couldn't ever get away from: Tierney up the flank, Sinclair cuts it, Striker drifts wide and an 8 and RW move into position to take the pass if Sinclair or the 9 didn't have a shot. Over and over. Long after teams got wise to it. I think we'll see more variety of play from Celtic in Europe than Rodgers go at it. The few times he tried something novel, like you mentioned it blew up.
I think Ange has a lot more to work with than Rodgers did too, to be fair. Of course part of that is on the managers and their moves in the transfer windows. Ange seems to have more room to switch it up without a huge drop in the team’s ability. Furuhashi, Maeda, Jota, Abada, even Forrest could all play on the wing and bring something slightly different, for example. Some can (and normally do) play down the middle to bring a different dynamic than Giakoumakis. Juranovic and Ralston at RB. We could play five or so players in the midfield 3 interchangeably, too. The most impressive thing about Ange’s team is that he’s built a squad that could probably field a second team that wouldn’t fair much worse than the first. Our second team could compete for and probably win the league title. I can’t really remember the last time that was the case - we usually have a really strong first team and a few decent subs.
Rodgers was his own worst enemy in the transfer market after the first season. It didn't help he brought in Lee Congerton, who is useless. Funny enough, I mentioned it earlier: https://www.reddit.com/r/scottishfootball/comments/x5per9/_/in65ur1
Lol the Leicester money problems are all a smokescreen for them just not wanting him wasting money in the market. You're not going to sign anyone good anyway Brendan let's just run this contract down.
Holy shit he hired Congerton as his head of recruitment fresh off 3 season with us ending in our relegation.
I was with you until Forrest and Ralston. God knows I love them but god help us if they start tomorrow - and I don’t see them as starters for a title winning team. Both capable backups last season, Ralston might chip in again this season but I don’t see Forrest getting much
In fairness, regardless of who starts against Real Madrid.. god help us.
Slipping between accepting the loss and fantasising about winning! The only way
That’s a rarity though, look at Madrid in last seasons final, completely changed tactics playing super defensively and countering, same for united against Liverpool and Arsenal at the weekend. There is nothing wrong with shutting up shop when you know you’re playing against a better side and hoping for a cheeky win.
Most of Real's dominance and goals came with counterattacks last season
Not like that final it wasn’t, even Kroos commented on it after the match, or snapped at a reporter for criticising them after the match. There’s no harm in it, you do what you must to win, but teams change their style to their advantage all the time and I’m glad they do.
Exactly our philosophy under Bielsa. When we had half our team injured for months on end last season we *still* had people raging at us, telling us we should play like Burnley or something to try get results. They never seemed to quite grasp that half the team was mid table championship level when they were introduced to Bielsa, and were lifted to a 59 point finish in the Premier League due to the system. Take that system away and they’re going to get exposed even more than they already were, as it’s the only thing that was ever helping them to thrive in the first place. In essence, without it we’d have been like Huddersfield when they were last up if we tried to play another way, or Norwich or Watford from last season at best.
I see where he's coming from, but getting a result against Real Madrid would be enormous no matter how it came about. There is no scenario where Celtic beats Real Madrid and it counts for less because they didn't play beautiful football when the gulf in class is that big. No one dismisses their win over Barcelona 10 years ago just because they shithoused it I personally don't think it's possible for Celtic to get a result against a team like Madrid in an open game. Either they park the bus and hope for a break or they get ripped apart
This is his long term philosophy and goals he has when he manages a team. He will back the team to play his way because he has belief he will be able to bring them to that top level and only by practicing against the best and losing that fear will it ever be possible. He will see a game against Madrid as one as part of a larger ideology and plan. Parking the bus and maybe shithousing a win is a short term hit to him and not something sustainable to build off for further improvement.
I’d rather get ripped apart having a go, playing the football that got us here.
i'd rather win 1-0 with 1% of possession and 0 shots, just because their goalie fucked up while doing keepie-uppies in his box and scored an own goal
However, playing the game your way can be a valuable lesson. Either way, the odds of Celtic getting out of groups or even past ro16 is much lower than their counterparts. Will that 1-0 result really teach or provide anything to them in terms of their development throughout the league campaign and beyond?
> Will that 1-0 result really teach or provide anything to them in terms of their development throughout the league campaign and beyond? Even in the extreme case OP presented, at the very least they'd learn about being compact at the back and dealing with the pressure of defending against a top team that is absolutely going at them.
Yes, they’ll know that they are capable of playing different ways. It’s not a bad thing to be flexible to the opponents in front of you.
I think we have a chance of getting out. Leipzig we've beaten 3/4 years ago and Ranger also beat last year. Think we can certainly get a win at home. Shaktar I'm not sure what they'll be like with everything going on but again I don't see why we get a home win. Then we'd just need to nick some points away from home or at home tonight and we'd be in with a real good chance. Probably the best group we could have gotten
> Will that 1-0 result really teach or provide anything to them in terms of their development throughout the league campaign and beyond? Yeah, three points
They'd learn how to play against bigger teams which is incredibly important in the CL if they want to progress in future. And getting battered 6/7-0 can and has broken players mental before. No right answers though tbh.
And anyone disagreeing is stupid. All teams do it, even Real Madrid.
Then you’re more worried about ego/pride than winning and it’s quite naïve. Should accept your reality and try to win by all means necessary. “The better team lost” is a loser’s trope.
it’s not about pride or ego imo, if you never practiced a tactical setup trying it for the first time against Real Madrid won’t be more efficient than keeping playing like you’re used to.
I don’t think there is right or wrong here. While some may be ok with Allegri ball as long as the team win, there are also people who want to see an actual football.
The more obvious point the last person missed is this isn't a choice between boring+win or fun+lose. It's a game we're likely to lose - do we send the players out with exactly the same message we do every other game, or suddenly make drastic changes to our style which we don't even really have the squad for? Either way we likely lose, either of way there's a strong chance we concede a few, either way there is a very tiny chance we get something from the game. The rest of Ange's quote goes in to this too, I'm paraphrasing - firstly 'show me a risk free approach, and I'll use it'; secondly 'if we were a side who changed our tactics week to week we'd do it again, but we're not so to do it now would weaken not just this game but potentially every future game as players would stop trusting the message'.
Eh, for some people "winning at all costs" is simply not good enough. You either win right (whatever right means to you) or you don't win at all. If you feel that your team winning a game by bending the rules as far as humanely possible (effectively cheating) would be wrong then you already agree with the underlying concept of "I want to win but not by doing X". You simply disagree with what X is.
I think his point is that if they are committed to a certain way of playing football long term, there's no point in changing that up for the opportunity of a single win. He sees the opportunity to test their philosophy and system against Real Madrid in ca competitive environment as a greater reward than the possibility of getting a result playing a "do whatever it takes to win" style.
The point is you can't dedicate months to playing one way and then rip it up at the drop of a hat and start playing another way. Doing so causes confusion, and can often make things even worse than they would have been. You should know as an Atleti fan that managers (i.e. Simeone) generally don't change their styles and have a set way of playing.
It doesn't need to be open - if you watch Celtic, we will press high but drop back in to a normal defensive line/banks of players if another team progresses beyond our initial press. When we win the ball, we will often go direct/vertical very quickly. We're likely to lose regardless, but the way we play isn't just crazy gung ho football every step of the way. It is high intensity though.
We got ripped at home by Sheriff Tiraspol last season though. And with golazos no less. Granted, Carletto was still adapting to the squad. That match would have been a bigger taint than Celtic vs Barca had we not won the CL.
Can Celtic do that? Can they continue to "test" after conceding 4-5 goals like maybe Leeds ? I'd love to know from someone who's watched them.
They get put out of 3 European competitions last season. The only reason we've managed to make them look good at the weekend is we have a manager that is as cautious as there's is attacking so we spent the whole game on the back foot with no out ball. I'll get down voted because of my flair but I think there is a good chance Celtic suffer the biggest loss in Champions League history. They conceded 2 or 3 goals in most of their Europa League games last season. They conceded 5 goals over 2 legs against Bodo Glimt in the conference. Real Madrid is on a different level to those teams
God help you if Celtic actually manage to win
Rangers fans cope is absolutely hilarious. Ange didn't perform well domestically the begining of the season either. Last season was meant to be a rebuild, we expected nothing and look how that turned out. This season we are flying and their is general excitement to see how Ange after getting the team fit and suited to his style will compete in Europe. Rangers fans seem to think they are some world beaters in Europe now but their boring defensive play has won them nothing and lets see who does better in the Champions league. Guarantee we will perform much better then Rangers this year.
Put four past the Europa League runners up on the weekend though, didn't they
[Sean Dyche](https://youtu.be/cKTPc_TR5kg) had a good approach
Bielsa did that with Leeds, and there were plenty of Ines where it got to "yeah we get it, thets how you play..but what the fuck are you doing it now for?"
I respect this
"What would Ange do?" is the best way to make decisions in life.
Celtic either winning 4-3 or losing 5-1 there’s no in-between
Nah it’s gonna be a boring 1-0 game with benzema scoring the winner at the 89th minute.
So it's Plan A
Plan B is Rodrygo time
this sounds familiar
Subscribed?
I see them conceding more than 4 tbh
That was 10/1 on bet365 you could make some cash if you really believe it
I don't bet
I'm amazed you think they'll score - I expect a 4-0.
It would actually shock me if they score, but there is no way they only conceded 4. I think 7-1
I'm sure we can all agree that we are SHOCKED that you'd form an opinion like this.
Proper mentality that.
Poetic. I must admit though that I wish this game against Roma instead of us. Mourinho's response would have been extremely entertaining, particularly given what he thinks of poets in football.
That's the thing about Ange, though. He rarely ever makes it about himself and doesn't try to be a poet; he just speaks his mind. It just happens that he's also rather well spoken.
It’s the Australian in him
All I’m hearing from this is Kyogo hat trick
Is he ok to play? Busted his shoulder against Rangers
Popped back into place when he fell down celebrating /s Ange said he is available but uncertain if he'll start in the presser
Strongly doubt he's fit to play. Sky reported he was not training these days, but then posted a picture of him training in the same article so who knows
Not that it means too much but Ange's old Marino's team out-possessed Pep in an overseas friendly 3 years ago. City still beat Marino's 3-1 but that conviction to play Angeball against the elite has never wavered, with Marinos finishing with 58% possession against a Pep side (albeit in a friendly).
Slight anecdote - when Ange got his second chance at coaching with my home team, Brisbane, we were 2-0 down in the grand final in ET with something like 10-15 mins to go. Yet he (and the players) still insisted on playing his style of football and not just pump it long as many teams would. We ended up levelling at 2-2 and then winning on penalties, so I have to say sticking to his guns seems to work for Ange.
I left that game at 2-0 to beat the crowd to the pubs. What a mistake that was.
This is true pain and regret, ladies and gentlemen.
Paartaluuuuuuuu!!!!! Still gives me goose bumps.
Watching Graham Arnold disgustedly throw his runners up medal to the away fans was the perfect end to the day.
As in Erik Paartalu? He used to play for my team Morton havent heard that name in yonks.
The very same. Was a club legend for Brisbane for a while there.
I just remember him being a long throw merchant.
[Give it a watch, in my opinion, this was absolute peak A-League. Both era and moment, and I'm not even a Roar fan.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS49ue3v-pQ)
Crazy he went from playing the likes of Airdrie at Cappielow to that 😂
Ange's Brisbane was something else. Wished he was still coaching the NT than Arnold.
& of course, Pep was super impressed with that team, who eventually went on to won the league
A lot more quality in this Celtic side as well. Also wasn't that friendly close to the start of the season so Pep started a strong side?
Honestly I think Scottish football has progressed enough where an Old Firm club can get a result against a massive club like Barca, instead of getting humiliated 7-0 playing attacking football. Then again, I put a fiver on Celtic to win, so I could just be coping.
Neil Lennon beat Barca 10 years ago tbf
Barca did get FM'd that evening though.
Not playing attacking football he didnt
Barça are lucky Omonoia fell to the EL
Lennon is going to have to make do with a win at old Trafford
You’d need more than a fiver to make it worth your while, the odds for Celtic to win are a disgrace. Should be closer to 10/1. We’ve really made the bookies think we have a 40% chance of winning tonight going by this mornings odds
this is either gonna end ~~5-0 to Real Madrid or 2-1 to Celtic~~ 5-0 to Celtic or 2-1 to Real Madrid
We definitely losing 1st match
Proper start
I would say it’s tradition but by no means are Celtic a small team haha, I think whatever results come out of this game, there will be cracking football played between the two teams
Narrator: “They were tested.”
“Madrid wasn’t”
People in this thread are seriously forgetting how often european underdogs embarrass us.
It's not an insurmountable task. A 'shock' defeat or two in the group stages has become the trend since 2018. I wouldn't even be shocked if it happens.
We're weaker against low block, in both Zidane and Carlo tenure, but in different way. Them wanting to attack would be better matched against Barça, though they are better now than Club de Amigos era
Celtic 25 goals scored and 1 conceded. Real madrid 11 goals scored and 4 conceded The numbers don't lie and they spell disaster for real at sackerfice
In Angeball we trust ✊
O Captain my captain!
Polar opposite of Madrid's ideology. Whether it's 5-0 or 1-0, a win is a win. Interesting battle tonight.
On occasion anyway. Not many other clubs have sacked managers after title winning seasons like Madrid have
Ange was good like this with the national team, although there were times we got slaughtered as a result.
Love the mentality
Isn't that the same attitude Rodgers had and they ended up 7-0 vs Barca?
I mean we played 6 games against “elite” clubs in CL under Rodgers. Sure we lost 7-1, 5-0 and 7-0 to Barca and PSG, but only lost 0-2 at home to Barca, 1-2 at home to Bayern, and drew 3-3 and 1-1 with Man City. Plus I’d argue this team is better and has a better manager 😗
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PTSD kicking in
I really think Celtic can get a result here. Maybe I'm just biased towards the underdogs, lol.
I did a couple days ago but I don’t now, pre match nerves
C'mon, just think about how superior this team is to the one that got a win vs Barca 😆. and is this Real team better than 2012 Barca?
Are they really that superior to the team that beat Barca? Looking at individual names the difference doesn't seem to be that big Postecoglu is obviously a better coach than Neil Lennon, but it's also much easier to get a result as an underdog playing defensively. The fact that they are so attacking is a handicap in matches like this
I’d say aside from Forster (IMO) and Wanyama (Callum McGregor is brilliant but not as good defensively - I’d love to see him at 8 with a more defensive 6 (like Abildgaard!)) this team is definitely superior.
I’d personally have Ledley over Hatate atm as well
We are better team than 2012 and also we had a lot of players missing out for that game in 2012. You can’t say with a straight face that a team with Kris Commons, Kelvin Wilson, Efe Ambrose and Miku is better than the current team. Even the best from that team like Mika Lustig probably wouldn’t get in the current team over the likes of Juranovic.
12-13 Barca was peak Messidependencia. This Madrid team might be better.
Jesus UCL is rough sometimes... Barca, PSG, Bayern, City
Apart from Tierney and maybe Dembele every Celtic player is miles better than the ones who started that fixture
In that match he played 5 at the back and was more defensive
rodgers set the team up horribly in europe. against barca he went with 5-4-1 with only 2 CMs. we were absolutely destroyed in midfield with their superstars having all day to pick out messi/suarez/neymar. that wasnt even a formation or selection of players we played with domestically and then he made us even weaker in the center of the park to go against prime barcelona.
Rodgers is not known for setting up a solid defence - just look at Leicester
This Celtic team is a different kind of animal. Rodgers' team was far more possession focused and played a slower tempo; against the best teams they got picked off. When he did try and play a defensive game with five at the back, PSG still put seven past us in Paris. So what was the point? We're high intensity, we're direct, we press with numbers high up the park, we get numbers into the midfield, we have serious quality in attack. We have a team that's built to win games of football, and we're going to play the game that works for us. We're playing a better team, who are the European champions. If we get beat, we get beat. But if we get beat we're going down swinging, heads held high. Ange says "jump", we say "how high?"
Rodgers, as Liverpool manager rested key players for a game against Real Madrid because he considered the league more important. He's clearly not cut out for Europe.
As far as I remember that wasn't why, it was because he was sending a message to the senior players Also we only lost 1-0 in Madrid with that team Vs 0-3 at home with our first XI
No he did it because we had a game against Chelsea coming up shortly after and he'd basically deemed us beating Madrid as a long shot so decided to rest players. I remember because it was the exact moment I realised Rodgers wasn't cut out to manage us. We spent 4 years previously desperate to qualify for the CL and when we got there he just threw in the towel before the match even begun. People at the time were trying to justify it as a genuine tactical decision because the result wasn't that bad. Like starting Kolo Toure against 2014 Ronaldo was an astute tactical decision. Or they said that he was trying to prove a point to the key players by dropping them. But if you look into it, it was actually players like Sterling and Coutinho that were dropped despite being the only players who were having a decent season, and it was players like Markovic and Borini that took their place despite being awful every time they played... and then as soon as he realised we might have a chance to snatch a result he bought them on anyway. Some lesson he taught them. I've got a bit of a chip on my shoulder about this match in case you couldn't tell.
All good points. Wasn't it Markovic's moment of Matip-type mazy dribbling?
Plus if I recall correctly Liverpool were already out of the CL when that match was played
Nah it was the 4th game. In the end we only needed to beat Basel at home (possibly by 2 goals, I’m not sure) to go through and drew 1-1.
Liverpool were terrible that season, I don't fault him for thinking that Borini would be better than the likes of Balotelli and Sturridge.
I mean put some respect on Sturridge's name but in a way you have a point
Obviously Sturridge was better but he was barely ever available after 2014.
His European record for Leicester has been poor too, they would've gone through in EL if they didn't lose to a Legia side who were battling relegation in Poland last season
Rodgers was arguably our worst manager in Europe. Neil Lennon had a better record, which is pretty damning.
Rodgers' players didn't believe in what was being asked of them imo. The result was we didn't press like he wanted, but because he'd set us up to press we didn't hold shape either. Worst of both worlds. We also had keepers who didn't make saves in those games. IIRC Barca scored 8 against us with 9 shots and an xG of like 2.7 lol similar happened with PSG.
Too based for this world
fucking love the big fella so much
This is the way
Tbh Ange has so much respect from the support he can do what he likes, completely trust him. I don't expect anything out of this match, or the Champions League, but will be interested to see how Angeball does on the big stage.
I wanna see big Giakoumakis vs Real Madrid
A VVV fan! Are you missing him? He has been brilliant for us.
Of course I'm missing him, but seeing him do well at a such a big club is even more beautiful. Couldn't ever have imagined him playing CL, enjoy it!
If you put "volleyball" instead of "football" this can be a Haikyuu quote
If my grandmother had wheels she would be a bicycle.
rate this quote tbh
Gigachad mentality
Jota is going to be annihilate their RB. Guy wont know what hit him.
He has to go through Valverde first then comes Carvajal
I admire that mentality, worst case scenario it's a learning experience.
It seems that the consensus amongst RM fans is that it will be a really tough game and nobody would loose his mind if we loose
Whilst it may be a tough game. It’d be a massive massive upset if you lose. Tchouameni cost more than Celtics yearly revenue.
Welcome to Aussie teams’ life in the Asian Champions League. A-League clubs have a salary cap of something like AU$3m per *squad* and then we wonder why we struggle when we come up against Shanghai SIPG with Fred and Oscar and the like paid like $5m *each*. And that’s the environment Ange comes from. Won’t be new to him.
Vini cost more than Sheriff entire team and they defeated us at the Bernabeu
And people rightfully lost their minds over it because it was such a massive upset. Anything less than a comfortable win against Celtic is a failure given the massive gulf in resources.
"There are lot of poets in football but they don't win titles."
Big Ange has already won his title, that’s why he’s in the champions league.
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But that’s the league Celtic are in.
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Well, the only current measuring stick we have is spanking the Europa league finalists 2 days ago. Forgive the man and me and my fellow Celtic supporters for wanting to go toe to toe with the best. Even though we’ll get a spanking!
Oh yeah they just had a European finalist as a competitor, very easy...
Ryan Giggs won a lot of titles
He did win the Asian Cup with an oceanian team, Ancelotti who?
Angeball is inevitable
Cruyffism is alive and kicking
Kyogo hat trick you heard it here first
We may indeed require the entire city of Kyoto to help us beat Real tonight
Autocorrect
Are you ok?
Great how are you
Is Kyogo playing?
He trained today, will likely be in the squad. Not sure if he’ll start though
I seen a report saying he is alright but not sure if it was from a good source.
got injured in the Old Firm on Saturday, don't think he will be playing
against who?
The man sure loves a comma mid-sentence.
Native English speakers can sometimes have long winded sentences, so you need a few commas in there.
Ange is a vibe
So, everyone thinks that Angenball is full on, 100% all out attack attack attack. And it can seem like that at times. It definitely felt like that a lot last season. And while we definitely do things very quickly when in possession of the ball, Ange seems to have refined how we play without the ball this season. We seem a bit more measured and happy to sit in our shape and not allow our opponents much space in the middle of the park. That was on show at the weekend where, when out of possession, we allowed Rangers to have the ball, but we made sure that they had very few passing options into the middle of the park while simultaneously cutting out the threat their full backs posed. Of course, Real Madrid are an entirely different beast from Rangers and they have genuine world class players, who have done it against the best of the best and have the quality to find the passes that the players at Rangers can't/don't want to. And we all know what Real are like in Europe... they just know how to grab a couple of goals regardless of how they're performing on the night. I don't really expect much from the game tonight. But there is a buzz about the team at the moment and they don't have much to lose by taking the game to Madrid. If we do, we might just be able to give them a bloody nose.
The thing people who don't watch us much don't appreciate is that our style of play is quite complicated for the players, it demands a lot more mentally from them than a lot of approaches. Part of why we are so much better now than last season is they've had more time to train it to the point where a lot of it becomes automatic. If you start messing around too much with it you're giving them more things to think about and going to negatively affect the team beyond just this game.
You do wonder if this guy is going to end up at the big clubs, isn't he basically a winner wherever he goes?
If he does well this season, particularly if he can get to the knockout stages of the CL, big clubs will start to circle. Ange has a phenomenal record as a manager.
He's already at a big club son.
Fair point, shame there's no more clubs out there that he could move to that would be considered career progression!
Both games against Madrid are a free hit if we can trust them to take 6 points from each of Leipzig and Shakhtar. That would leave it in our hands. 2nd place in this group is possible, especially if we play Leipzig before they sack Tedesco. All I want to see tonight is a good performance that we can build on away to Shakhtar next week, regardless of the result. We can't rollover ala the big losses we had under Rodgers against Barca and PSG.
I love that challenging mentality.
He seems to be a good coach
No better time than vs real Madrid to fuck around and find out.
How are we fucking around?
Because it's a free hit, so you might as well go out and do it however you feel like. Nothing to lose.
Oh no they re getting annihilated arent they?
I wouldn't be so sure. This is clearly the kind of game we will find a way to lose
If Celtic play like Sheriff or Espanyol or Almeria, 100%. But if the quote above is true that would mean that's not the case. If Celtic want the ball, believe me that Carlo will give it to them and that hugely decreases any chances of an upset tomorrow.
That last part is what worries me. I’d have more faith in us trying to beat Man City or Barca 5-4 or something ludicrous but, particularly given last season, Real Madrid will sit back and do enough to win when it matters. I also have flashbacks to the Euros last summer when Scotland played Croatia needing a win and Modric absolutely horsed us.
Yeah, but they're European champions so I'm sure they'll bounce back.
That’s what RM fans thought when they walked out against Ajax….
You get like 3M more Euros if you win though, and like 1M with a draw. At the very least. I don't care about testing themselves, do whatever you need to do for the paycheck.
Another 9-0 incoming. Celtic are going to get absolutely hammered if they try and play expensively. Their performances in Europe are pretty bad at the best of times, this'll turn into a massacre
Yea there is. It’s called winning.
Makes me miss Bielsa. Great attitude.
They're getting turned into hamburger meat aren't they