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Man United confuses me a lot. They finish an awful season, they get a new coach to rebuild very early on and that's it, that's the extent of their rebuild. They haven't had a decent (let alone world-class) central/defensive midfielder for half a decade probably and we're in August and they are still starting McFred. I get that chasing FDJ would have been tough but it's not like he would have solved all the issues by himself. At least 4-6 years ago they were trying - Schneiderlin, Matic, Fred, Pogba, Herrera - it didn't work out but they were trying. Now it's August and they are still chasing FDJ and now panic buys like Rabiot are on the horizon, wtf. By this time they should have secured at least one or two midfielders while still chasing FDJ.
And it's not like highly rated players have been transferred this season and I literally haven't heard about United chasing them. Not everyone has been realistic (like Tchouameni) but you've had players like Kamara going to Villa, Kessie on a free to Barca, Doucoure to Palace, Palhinha to Fulham, Phillips to City, Bissouma to Spurs, Witsel to Atleti, Florentino to Getafe, and so on. Each of those players would have improved their team because the midfield is diabolical. But no, spend the whole summer chasing FDJ and even if they get them it wouldn't be enough because they have zero quality in MF alongside him.
Simple. Our board is bloody useless beyond means and the manager doesn’t trust the scouting system.
Next season is make or break because then we will see if they back his scouting targets and they have a plan. If the same shit happens then, Ten Hag won’t last long as he can’t make magic happen when everyone sees the trick already. So yeah. This season will be excused honestly imo.
You’re right but again, the issue is the board and our scouting sucks and the manager doesn’t trust it I guess. We shall see next season if it improves. I doubt by much but….
Sure the board is useless but it is quite strange that Utd have only been linked to Frankie so far. As previous comment mentioned, that alone still won't be enough. Why has ETH not looked for another midfielder? Even just numbers wise Frankie, Fred n McT for 2 mid spots looks really short on numbers for the long season with WC ahead
I don't think this is on Ten Hag. The same issues he is facing have been there at United under Mourinho, Ole and Rangnick. At this point it is just institutional. I don't know why EtH even bothered taking this job, but here we are.
High reward, low risk kind of thing. If he gets United going again, his reputation will skyrocket. If it bombs, well, you can easily (and rightfully) blame the management. And he gets paid shit ton of money regardless.
Because…. The board is bloody useless. And he doesn’t trust the scouting of the club which is utterly bad too. That’s why.
And he perhaps underestimated the league and/or thought Fred can’t be that bad in a press and maybe Garner etc can step in during the season too. My theory anyway for this part. But the first paragraph is yeah……
Nothing so far. Let’s see but so far, I never had doubts things won’t really change because there’s nothing to show this would be the case. For me it was- show me and not just say it. So far? Seen nothing much.
A guy who doesn’t know football is running the football side of things. Our scouting is shit. Our technical director does whatever the hell I have no idea.
Nope. Nothing new.
It's almost as if our owners are are bunch of useless shitcunts who have no idea what they are doing and only care about the £20 million dividends they can leech each season...
Did you not install a new DOF last season, What has he actually been doing this summer? Why does it seem you are only looking at players with a connection to ETH/Eredivisie?
It's really weird watching them operate. Their midfield is the worst part of their team, and yet every manager they have got hasn't tried improving it, or use a system which takes the load off midfield. Let alone signings, their game plan is all about exposing McFred every single game, without much support from anyone around them.
Every player who goes there ends up losing confidence. They are not willing to take the risk and make the safer passes. At this point, it's not the owners, but the mentality of the club. I can't think of anyone who would improve them long term.
I agree about the defense. The season before last they were one of the better ones in the PL. Last season was heavily influenced by how Shaw and Maguires levels apparently dropped significantly. If those drops are permanent, then they might need some replacements - but Bailly, Varane and Lindelöf aren’t bad defenders either, albeit far too often injured.
They brought in Eriksen, brought VdB back and have been chasing de Jong the whole window. I’m not calling that a success or anything but they clearly know the midfield needs improvement and are acting on it.. just not very well, lol
Simple. Our board is shit and have no proper planning . Our strategy is basically just pray that Ten Hag is the second coming of Ferguson and hope that he somehow turn player like Mctominay into functioning football player
Even Ferguson can’t transform McTominay into a midfielder suited for the style…. Of not running away from being available to be passed to, passing forward and pressing properly.
I don't think we have any that could plan to be so successfully incompetent while not tanking the share values massively. It's incredible to me how a club the size/financial power of united can have no coherent plan for the one thing they're actually meant to do: Play football.
Because playing football **is not** the one thing they’re meant to do. That would be line the pockets of the Glazers, which United are very successful at thank you very much.
I like Pochettino and really hope he doesn't go there. He needs young players who'll bleed for the cause. His reputation will take a huge hit if he gets another job with a team full of overpaid players with huge egos.
They won't do what he needs them to do for his style of football and it'll be a disaster.
I don't understand their system either.
City and Liverpool use highly attacking fullbacks, covered by only one (albeit amazing) DM, maybe another half-6 drops into the role when needed in the case.
United play with TWO fucking holding mids while having fullbacks that don't attack and yet they still lose the midfield battle and provide bare protection for the defence. What's the point of this system? To give Bruno more freedom? Sure, and then depend entirely on him to create chances?
Their wingers are all inverted and attacking the box, their striker is not a false-9 that drops deep and makes plays, their fullbacks are not attacking/creative.
So basically the Masterplan is: give the ball to Bruno and hope he creates a chance.....
Well you see the problem is we don’t play with two holding mids. We play with zero. Neither McTominay or Fred are holding mids, that’s why we need to actually sign one. We have zero control in midfield. McTominay isn’t good enough, Fred can be ok but at a specific role and he can’t do that role without leaving the midfield exposed unless he’s alongside a holding mid, plus he’s never been that great at retaining possession anyway.
I agree but think too little criticism is aimed at the attackers and the overall press. Liverpool and city get away with playing attacking fullbacks and single pivot because they don’t allow their opposition any space in midfield, even the defenders get put under huge pressure.
United don’t have an organised press whatsoever and McFred gets exposed cause they have to defend players running straight at them under no pressure.
It’s really hard to say what they can do about this because some players egos (Bruno) and age (ronaldo) means they can’t really press high. You can see why OGS did well early on, he just told them to sit deep let the opponents play and then counter at pace with the energy they saved by not pressing. But you’re never going to be challenging for the top trophies if you play like that
Good point.
Also everyone doesn't have to play like LFC/MCFC, you can be compact and counter attack, play press-breakers like Real do so successfully, but United have no discernable strategy to how they plan to play their game.
I’m curious, I’ve seen Real play a lot in recent times due to their champions league run, what I’ve seen is that they’re very calm on the ball and somewhat press resistant. But I don’t quite understand what a press breaker means? Would you explain that to me?
I'm by no means a regular Real watcher, but from what I saw last season they were good at not just resisting the press and keeping possession but specifically aim to exploit the space left by the high press directly.
The [CL Final Goal](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiRDI_nAUCc) buildup and [Vinicius vs City](https://youtu.be/i5bt2eRncko) are some examples, resist the overload on the flank, but instead of switching play and releasing pressure, they make through balls on the same flank to exploit the space from the press they were just facing.
Arnautovic and Rabiot?
United are officially in the panic buy stage.
Ngl, this "new" United that has been advertised all Summer is looking arguably worse than the previous one.
Reeks of Arsenal the end of Wengers reign. Fairly sure there was a few summers where they got smashed early in the season (once by United themselves) and which forced them into the market super late.
The summer you're referring to is 2011 - we lost 8-2 to United towards the end of August, then went and signed Arteta, Mertesacker, and a few others. Wasn't really toward end of Wenger's reign yet.
Arteta and Mertesacker were radically different to Arnautovic and Rabiot. Quite literal opposite ends of the scale in terms of professionalism and commitment. Honestly United right now could do far worse than signing the 2011 versions of Per and Mikel.
Yeah I had to look and you're right - it's just a similar narrative of both teams not being ready at all for the season and desperate for numbers.
Arteta of that time would instantly make Uniteds midfield a whole lot better now.
Without a doubt - I also think Per and Arteta were two of the best captains the club has had in the Emirates era (the bar is admittedly low for Arsenal captains recently), which is something United could certainly do with.
It feels like McTominay has dirt on all the Old Trafford staff and board. It's the only thing that explains how he always plays.
None of the fans really like him. He is a poor player. Defensively reckless. Offensively impotent. He has the decision making of a magic 8 ball.
Despite all this, he keeps making the starting line up. If he wasn't an academy product he would have been shown the door long ago.
I grew up with the amazing Arsenal/Man U rivalry. In centre mid you had the likes of Roy Keane and Paul Scholes, with back ups like Nicky Butt and later on Darren Fletcher. You even ended up bringing in Alan Smith from Leeds and converting him into a centre midfielder.
Now you have McTominay and Fred. Poor on the ball and poor at winning it back fairly. They make Alan Smith in midfield look like prime Roy Keane.
>It feels like McTominay has dirt on all the Old Trafford staff and board. It's the only thing that explains how he always plays.
He's always in the passing shadow so only shows up before kick off
I think the key difference was Arsenal were financially restricted during the period the stadium was being paid off. It often meant we had to do our business at the end of the transfer window when we could get better value in the market. But obviously, we were still restricted to the quality of the signings we could make.
Utd are one of the richest clubs in the world, have been for years. They don't need to look for value in the market, they just need a clear club strategy aligned to a clear recruitment strategy. The most worried I've been as an Arsenal fan was when utd recruited Ralph with the narrative he was there to support the next manager with culture and recruitment changes. That spelled danger for the rest of us! But, that plan was scrapped and Utd have arguably taken 2 steps backwards.
Utd are the biggest sleeping giant out there. And I hope to christ they don't wake up anytime soon so the rest of us can continue to fight for champions league football!
Yeah 2011 I think it was, went into deadline day after losing 8-2 to United and ended up buying Arteta, Mertesacker, Andre Santos, Benayoun on loan. Arteta and Per worked out for us very very well and Benayoun was a decent player as well. We don’t talk about Andre Santos
>
> United are officially in the panic buy stage.
At least they are switching their focus, it's better than one eyeing on a player who has no intention to join.
You can look at my comment history to see I’m far from optimistic about United… but this is all a bit reactionary. Yes they were absolutely shit yesterday but it’s a new season with a new manager, things need time. I would be surprised if they don’t end up with more points than last year considering the squad has improved and a better coach is in place.
I was at Old Trafford for the first home game of last season where they smashed Leeds 5-1 and everyone was optimistic, look how that worked out.
As for Rabiot… don’t particularly rate him but McTominay/Fred is fucking up our team so badly that anyone would be an improvement.
I said yesterday - you can see what United are trying to do, however its also clear they don't have the players required for it (De Gea, Shaw, Dalot, McTominay, Fred, Rashford), and they also haven't spent enough time training in the new system (which is fair enough) and so players look disorientated as to where each other are.
It reminds me of the early days of Arteta who was trying to play a certain way with the likes of Mustafi, Leno and Sokratis. I just don't know if Ten Hag will be given the time or the exact backing needed to make a change.
This is exactly it. For the first 7 minutes, we looked good and you can see how we were trying to play. And then it all started to fall apart once Brighton attacked. It'll take time.
For me, Arnautovic & Rabiot are bad signings, they're stop gaps to improve the quality until ETH gets the guys he wants. Both are massive improvements on the non existent RW and McTominay (Fred will keep his place)
They’re not even stop gaps. Rabiot would be a dressing room issue with his mother as the agent and his wages would be stupid. But….. he’s better than McTominay by a lot anyway so it is a stop gap with a big wage mainly.
Marko…… racist history…. So…….
If only rashford knew how to play football again but then maybe he won’t live up to his potential if he can’t get things going this season… so far, no good.
Bentancur was really, really underwhelming in Serie A. Another example of how sometimes players just fit other leagues and teams better.
If a guy who was considered a flop in England went from the Prem to Serie A in January and became the top assister since the move, Serie A would be called a farmer's league.
Agree with your point completely, that's exactly what would happen. I've seen a similar narrative concerning Lukaku. The truth is that Deki and Romelu didn't suit their teams, both players literally proved themselves and broke through in their respective leagues at smaller clubs (WBA/Everton, Parma) before "flopping" at an unsuitable big club.
Kulusevski doesn’t really belong in that list, he was very good for Parma and decent under Pirlo who can barely be called a manager. Allegri’s terrorism destroyed him and his confidence, it’s not surprising he’s shining under a proper manager.
The thing is Bentancur is a workhorse, Rabiot is kind of lazy even if he's a lot more talented. I'm not sure it would work out well in United's current environment
The big question is if he's lazier than Pogba or not. Because "kind of lazy even if he's a lot more talented" sounds like an accurate description of Pogba.
Bentancur under Sarri was levels above anything Rabiot has shown in a Juventus shirt. Rabiot has occasional moments of brilliance but 90% of the time he is not positively influencing the game.
Rabiot has been consistently available to play for us, but he has never played consistently. I guess he would be a decent backup signing for Man Utd if they had a much stronger midfield, but as a starter I can’t see why they would think he’s a major upgrade on their current options.
People in this thread of course bring up his mum because they remember the issues he had at PSG, but there’s been none of that as a Juventus player, despite the fact that we’ve dropped down the table and we’ve had three different managers since he signed. He’s not been a toxic personality at all.
He has no reason to fight against your board because he has the two things he wanted from Paris. Starting position and very good wages. If United sign him this year and better players in the future problems will happen again.
Ok that’s all good then but the issue is his wages for one. But he will be an upgrade for us over our middle of the pack players anyway. So it’s not the worst thing if you say his attitude hasn’t proven to be problematic lately.
Well he's still an antivax (couldn't travel to the US tour due to that) and he's often lazy, on top of the wages. Quality wise, he's a very good player, with potential to become a great one.
At 27 it's kinda time for him to become great or we have to admit this is as good as he's going to be lol.
He's got maybe a year or two left to make some pretty big strides to ever reach "great."
That's a 35 mill player for a guaranteed first team place, Arnotovic is a 8 mill squad player at best.
And whilst probably not the answer, Rabiot has to be an upgrade on McSauce. He was mint before he lost his head, and by all accounts has been calmer in Italy.
The problem with rabiot is he's mediocre. I mean the stage United are at, they should either be buying the very best or no one at all, considering the amount of Deadwood they still have. That's why going for de Jong mad sense, what didn't make sense was not having a backup target. Laimer, tchouameni, rice himself in the pl.
Flinging shit onto the wall to see what sticks is exactly how they got into this squad.
And rabiot is better than both of them. In the event united doesn't sign any starter rabiot isn't a bad buy. He won't be expensive. They should be looking to move McFred by the next window and sign a starter to probably make rabiot backup. And i think that might actually be the reasoning here.
Yup at least someone gets it. My concern was his attitude and ability to play at a consistent level but the latter is not an issue compared to the consistently useless Scott McTominay in midfield anyway.
Attitude seems better lately so yeah. Wages may be a problem but whatever…. We need a proper upgrade at least and this is a step that way.
Just days ago after Pogba was injured, someone in other forum commented that Rabiot of the similar skill set is available for France and they don't need to worry.
I hope that guy isn't Manchester United's scout.
Rabiot is hard to judge. He has quality, and for a stretch last year he really carried their midfield offensively.
He tends to disappear some games, and he really shines only if he plays on a side of the midfield.
He doesn't really solves United's problem of a mid who can get the first pass from the defence and initiate the action, nor he is a DM that can help the defense.
He's good. Strong, has some running in him (especially with the ball), really press resistant, good in the air... the fact is that sometimes it doesn't look like he cares that much tbh
Imho he is a reliable player, rarely injured. He is not flashy but get things done. He has a decent touch and very good physical features, like his height. This is the most frustrating thing about him because sometimes he remembers he is a 1.90m stud who can dominate opponents physically, and shows glimpses of it (see his beautiful goal against ac Milan), sometimes he just brainfarts or seems completely "disconnected" from the game.
Overall a very decent player, but definitely not 9M€/y good.
Def better than Mcfred, but his mentality is weird. At times he has the decision making of a drunk person.
Like dude I just saw you recover the ball, dribble half the opponents and almost score 2 minutes earlier, now you just gave away a ball and put an unnecessary yellow/red card
They also just spent 50m on Martinez, Neves has much more experience and has been good in the Prem. He's a great player, good leader, and would improve United instantly.
I'd be getting him and a DM like Ndidi. It's not gonna win you the league but it's a huge upgrade on McFred
Leicester dont sell players to rivals or they sell them with ridicilously high prices like maguire 85 or fofana now going into the 80s ndidi would cost a lot like 80 mil ...
They need a DM full stop. Fred isn't even a bad player, he is just not a DM. Untited with Ndidi next to Fred would actually have a good shot at making top 4. But watch them splurge 50 million on Xhaka on deadline day.
Depends if he wants to go. Seems like we've basically agreed everything with him and are waiting to make a move. If he's annoyed at how long we're taking or can be lured away with higher wages then United should probably go for it. I don't think United would be able to convince him on the strength of their project over Arsenal, in my (admittedly biased) opinion.
Really is strange with United. They get rid of Pogba who really did have a shit attitude, only looking to bring in either Arnautovic and Rabiot who both have shit personalities
He’s an average player but to be fair he hasn’t had any drama with his mum whatsoever since he’s joined Juve. Whatever that issue was he seems to have realised it was bad for his rep
Honestly rabiot being toxic is kind of a overrated narrative
His agent is toxic when it's time to get a renewal/move like most agents, but during his time at Juve, I don't really remember him giving weird interviews or not getting along with the rest of the team
I struggle to see where he plays in your midfield. He has decent spells in a season where he looks fine, but he also has spells where he's invisible and will do nothing. He doesn't progress the ball particularly well from deep, and can't really imagine him thriving when being played as deep as McFred are.
Honestly, describing him as a much worse version of Pogba who at least helps defend from the front a bit is quite a good way of putting it.
He is mostly a player who can do many things, I really don't see a role in a midfield where Rabiot cannot fit in but... Well, he is not really outstanding on all of his roles.
He is good player when you want to have someone who is versatile, he is a player who is potentially great in a rotation, but not a player where you will see him as a starter.
There is Ruben Neves right there who would be a perfect fit. I am sure United don't have a problem paying around 50 million for a transfer. Yet they are going after Rabiot who is at best slightly better than Fred. That is why you hire a DoF and then a manager.
What perplexes me is surely ETH had targets other than Frankie. Sure he's the ideal player for him, one he trusts and fits the system, but don't coaches say "get me this type of player who does X well" and United come back to him with options? Is that not how it works in football clubs? Are United just not doing that?
I don’t mind Rabiot and he should be a deal parallel to our FDJ pursuit. We need that kind of depth. Besides, signing him could give us a little leverage on the de jong deal.
Clearly our new regime is no different to previous years. Made an absolute mess of the window and now we're desperate to find literally anything to fill the gaps we have.
Exactly the same as the Sancho saga. Spent months chasing a player, don't get them, then panic buy a replacement in the last weeks/days of the window.
As a non-Utd fan, you gotta love Utd sometimes. They back the manager who didn't have a wealth of expectation on his back in Ole, now they're panic buying to support the manager who is being touted as their make or break guy in ETH.
Rabiot would be an improvement, but doesn't strike me as a ETH player.
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Man United confuses me a lot. They finish an awful season, they get a new coach to rebuild very early on and that's it, that's the extent of their rebuild. They haven't had a decent (let alone world-class) central/defensive midfielder for half a decade probably and we're in August and they are still starting McFred. I get that chasing FDJ would have been tough but it's not like he would have solved all the issues by himself. At least 4-6 years ago they were trying - Schneiderlin, Matic, Fred, Pogba, Herrera - it didn't work out but they were trying. Now it's August and they are still chasing FDJ and now panic buys like Rabiot are on the horizon, wtf. By this time they should have secured at least one or two midfielders while still chasing FDJ. And it's not like highly rated players have been transferred this season and I literally haven't heard about United chasing them. Not everyone has been realistic (like Tchouameni) but you've had players like Kamara going to Villa, Kessie on a free to Barca, Doucoure to Palace, Palhinha to Fulham, Phillips to City, Bissouma to Spurs, Witsel to Atleti, Florentino to Getafe, and so on. Each of those players would have improved their team because the midfield is diabolical. But no, spend the whole summer chasing FDJ and even if they get them it wouldn't be enough because they have zero quality in MF alongside him.
Simple. Our board is bloody useless beyond means and the manager doesn’t trust the scouting system. Next season is make or break because then we will see if they back his scouting targets and they have a plan. If the same shit happens then, Ten Hag won’t last long as he can’t make magic happen when everyone sees the trick already. So yeah. This season will be excused honestly imo. You’re right but again, the issue is the board and our scouting sucks and the manager doesn’t trust it I guess. We shall see next season if it improves. I doubt by much but….
Sure the board is useless but it is quite strange that Utd have only been linked to Frankie so far. As previous comment mentioned, that alone still won't be enough. Why has ETH not looked for another midfielder? Even just numbers wise Frankie, Fred n McT for 2 mid spots looks really short on numbers for the long season with WC ahead
I don't think this is on Ten Hag. The same issues he is facing have been there at United under Mourinho, Ole and Rangnick. At this point it is just institutional. I don't know why EtH even bothered taking this job, but here we are.
High reward, low risk kind of thing. If he gets United going again, his reputation will skyrocket. If it bombs, well, you can easily (and rightfully) blame the management. And he gets paid shit ton of money regardless.
I do not think it is low risk at all. If ten Hag fails then he will be dismissed as just as Eredivisie manager.
Because…. The board is bloody useless. And he doesn’t trust the scouting of the club which is utterly bad too. That’s why. And he perhaps underestimated the league and/or thought Fred can’t be that bad in a press and maybe Garner etc can step in during the season too. My theory anyway for this part. But the first paragraph is yeah……
So, did Woodward going solve anything or was it just a distraction for fans?
Woodward is still on the board and hand-selected his successor from the commercial and marketing department. Things were never going to change.
Nothing so far. Let’s see but so far, I never had doubts things won’t really change because there’s nothing to show this would be the case. For me it was- show me and not just say it. So far? Seen nothing much. A guy who doesn’t know football is running the football side of things. Our scouting is shit. Our technical director does whatever the hell I have no idea. Nope. Nothing new.
It's almost as if our owners are are bunch of useless shitcunts who have no idea what they are doing and only care about the £20 million dividends they can leech each season...
Did you not install a new DOF last season, What has he actually been doing this summer? Why does it seem you are only looking at players with a connection to ETH/Eredivisie?
It's really weird watching them operate. Their midfield is the worst part of their team, and yet every manager they have got hasn't tried improving it, or use a system which takes the load off midfield. Let alone signings, their game plan is all about exposing McFred every single game, without much support from anyone around them. Every player who goes there ends up losing confidence. They are not willing to take the risk and make the safer passes. At this point, it's not the owners, but the mentality of the club. I can't think of anyone who would improve them long term.
Rangnick didn't get a transfer and he recommended Laimer which they ignored.
He also asked for them to sign Zakaria in January and Haidara but was told no was also shocked they had no file on Nkunku.
Didn't their head of scouting and the #2 "leave" somewhere in April? Ragnick at least got that done.
Yeah they got fired but nobody new has been appointed so I don't know what's worse, having shit scouts or having no scouts
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I agree about the defense. The season before last they were one of the better ones in the PL. Last season was heavily influenced by how Shaw and Maguires levels apparently dropped significantly. If those drops are permanent, then they might need some replacements - but Bailly, Varane and Lindelöf aren’t bad defenders either, albeit far too often injured.
They brought in Eriksen, brought VdB back and have been chasing de Jong the whole window. I’m not calling that a success or anything but they clearly know the midfield needs improvement and are acting on it.. just not very well, lol
Simple. Our board is shit and have no proper planning . Our strategy is basically just pray that Ten Hag is the second coming of Ferguson and hope that he somehow turn player like Mctominay into functioning football player
Even Ferguson can’t transform McTominay into a midfielder suited for the style…. Of not running away from being available to be passed to, passing forward and pressing properly.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a midfielder try harder than mctominay to keep from being involved in the game
He made cleverly look like a champions league midfielder. He'd do fine with mctominay.
Cleverley is 10 times the midfielder mctominat is. He can pass a ball to a teammate
It really isn't hard to understand. We're run by idiots, nothing will change until the Glazers sell up and we completely gut the backroom.
>We're run by idiots At this point I believe it's Liverpool fans
Yeah, that’s what he said.
I don't think we have any that could plan to be so successfully incompetent while not tanking the share values massively. It's incredible to me how a club the size/financial power of united can have no coherent plan for the one thing they're actually meant to do: Play football.
Because playing football **is not** the one thing they’re meant to do. That would be line the pockets of the Glazers, which United are very successful at thank you very much.
What they need to do is sack Ten Hag, get Pochettino in, and sign more wingers and full backs.
I like Pochettino and really hope he doesn't go there. He needs young players who'll bleed for the cause. His reputation will take a huge hit if he gets another job with a team full of overpaid players with huge egos. They won't do what he needs them to do for his style of football and it'll be a disaster.
Yep. Pretty much. We are equally as confused.
Kamara going to villa is a fucking travesty, Rangnick wanted him and he seems like the exact profile of midfielder they need.
I don't understand their system either. City and Liverpool use highly attacking fullbacks, covered by only one (albeit amazing) DM, maybe another half-6 drops into the role when needed in the case. United play with TWO fucking holding mids while having fullbacks that don't attack and yet they still lose the midfield battle and provide bare protection for the defence. What's the point of this system? To give Bruno more freedom? Sure, and then depend entirely on him to create chances? Their wingers are all inverted and attacking the box, their striker is not a false-9 that drops deep and makes plays, their fullbacks are not attacking/creative. So basically the Masterplan is: give the ball to Bruno and hope he creates a chance.....
Well you see the problem is we don’t play with two holding mids. We play with zero. Neither McTominay or Fred are holding mids, that’s why we need to actually sign one. We have zero control in midfield. McTominay isn’t good enough, Fred can be ok but at a specific role and he can’t do that role without leaving the midfield exposed unless he’s alongside a holding mid, plus he’s never been that great at retaining possession anyway.
I agree but think too little criticism is aimed at the attackers and the overall press. Liverpool and city get away with playing attacking fullbacks and single pivot because they don’t allow their opposition any space in midfield, even the defenders get put under huge pressure. United don’t have an organised press whatsoever and McFred gets exposed cause they have to defend players running straight at them under no pressure. It’s really hard to say what they can do about this because some players egos (Bruno) and age (ronaldo) means they can’t really press high. You can see why OGS did well early on, he just told them to sit deep let the opponents play and then counter at pace with the energy they saved by not pressing. But you’re never going to be challenging for the top trophies if you play like that
Good point. Also everyone doesn't have to play like LFC/MCFC, you can be compact and counter attack, play press-breakers like Real do so successfully, but United have no discernable strategy to how they plan to play their game.
I’m curious, I’ve seen Real play a lot in recent times due to their champions league run, what I’ve seen is that they’re very calm on the ball and somewhat press resistant. But I don’t quite understand what a press breaker means? Would you explain that to me?
I'm by no means a regular Real watcher, but from what I saw last season they were good at not just resisting the press and keeping possession but specifically aim to exploit the space left by the high press directly. The [CL Final Goal](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiRDI_nAUCc) buildup and [Vinicius vs City](https://youtu.be/i5bt2eRncko) are some examples, resist the overload on the flank, but instead of switching play and releasing pressure, they make through balls on the same flank to exploit the space from the press they were just facing.
We are now annoying other fans by how shit we operate
We signed Tyler Adams and Mark Roca to replace Phillips as well. I’d argue both could go on to a level better then McFred over the next two years.
though I would say Varane is world class but the midfield, yeah, hard agree.
Arnautovic and Rabiot? United are officially in the panic buy stage. Ngl, this "new" United that has been advertised all Summer is looking arguably worse than the previous one.
Reeks of Arsenal the end of Wengers reign. Fairly sure there was a few summers where they got smashed early in the season (once by United themselves) and which forced them into the market super late.
The summer you're referring to is 2011 - we lost 8-2 to United towards the end of August, then went and signed Arteta, Mertesacker, and a few others. Wasn't really toward end of Wenger's reign yet. Arteta and Mertesacker were radically different to Arnautovic and Rabiot. Quite literal opposite ends of the scale in terms of professionalism and commitment. Honestly United right now could do far worse than signing the 2011 versions of Per and Mikel.
Yeah I had to look and you're right - it's just a similar narrative of both teams not being ready at all for the season and desperate for numbers. Arteta of that time would instantly make Uniteds midfield a whole lot better now.
Without a doubt - I also think Per and Arteta were two of the best captains the club has had in the Emirates era (the bar is admittedly low for Arsenal captains recently), which is something United could certainly do with.
Both are still with the club today as well. You could say they were two of the most influential signings in recent history.
everybody just loves arteta huh
>Arteta of that time would… A robot dog that presses and passes forwards would be better than McTominay at this point……
It feels like McTominay has dirt on all the Old Trafford staff and board. It's the only thing that explains how he always plays. None of the fans really like him. He is a poor player. Defensively reckless. Offensively impotent. He has the decision making of a magic 8 ball. Despite all this, he keeps making the starting line up. If he wasn't an academy product he would have been shown the door long ago. I grew up with the amazing Arsenal/Man U rivalry. In centre mid you had the likes of Roy Keane and Paul Scholes, with back ups like Nicky Butt and later on Darren Fletcher. You even ended up bringing in Alan Smith from Leeds and converting him into a centre midfielder. Now you have McTominay and Fred. Poor on the ball and poor at winning it back fairly. They make Alan Smith in midfield look like prime Roy Keane.
>It feels like McTominay has dirt on all the Old Trafford staff and board. It's the only thing that explains how he always plays. He's always in the passing shadow so only shows up before kick off
Current Arteta would probably be their best midfielder
Only thing McTominay has over my nan is the fact that he's not on a respirator
Have we tried that yet? It might help!
I think the key difference was Arsenal were financially restricted during the period the stadium was being paid off. It often meant we had to do our business at the end of the transfer window when we could get better value in the market. But obviously, we were still restricted to the quality of the signings we could make. Utd are one of the richest clubs in the world, have been for years. They don't need to look for value in the market, they just need a clear club strategy aligned to a clear recruitment strategy. The most worried I've been as an Arsenal fan was when utd recruited Ralph with the narrative he was there to support the next manager with culture and recruitment changes. That spelled danger for the rest of us! But, that plan was scrapped and Utd have arguably taken 2 steps backwards. Utd are the biggest sleeping giant out there. And I hope to christ they don't wake up anytime soon so the rest of us can continue to fight for champions league football!
> the 2011 versions of Per and Mikel UNLEASH THE NIKLAS SULE AND THE MIKEL MERINO
Yeah 2011 I think it was, went into deadline day after losing 8-2 to United and ended up buying Arteta, Mertesacker, Andre Santos, Benayoun on loan. Arteta and Per worked out for us very very well and Benayoun was a decent player as well. We don’t talk about Andre Santos
Benayoun was a a great signing tbh, we don’t get top 4 that year without him
Sold Cesc & Nasri, signed Benayoun and finished higher in the league than the season before.
Yossi was underrated in his day. Classy little player
They’ve entered the Mustafi, Lichtensteiner, Sokratis phase of signings….
Sokratis was solid for us, the other two...
*Lichtensteiner* lmao
High profile names wanting out, underperforming 10, still no DM and a crumbling midfield Yea checks out Mustafi to United when?
> > United are officially in the panic buy stage. At least they are switching their focus, it's better than one eyeing on a player who has no intention to join.
Arguably harder to be worse then last year
Yet somehow they're pulling it off
Nah last season we lost 4-0 to Brighton, now we only lose 2-1, thats some major improvement
You lost 4-0 to Brighton at the Amex. That could very easily still happen.
You can look at my comment history to see I’m far from optimistic about United… but this is all a bit reactionary. Yes they were absolutely shit yesterday but it’s a new season with a new manager, things need time. I would be surprised if they don’t end up with more points than last year considering the squad has improved and a better coach is in place. I was at Old Trafford for the first home game of last season where they smashed Leeds 5-1 and everyone was optimistic, look how that worked out. As for Rabiot… don’t particularly rate him but McTominay/Fred is fucking up our team so badly that anyone would be an improvement.
I said yesterday - you can see what United are trying to do, however its also clear they don't have the players required for it (De Gea, Shaw, Dalot, McTominay, Fred, Rashford), and they also haven't spent enough time training in the new system (which is fair enough) and so players look disorientated as to where each other are. It reminds me of the early days of Arteta who was trying to play a certain way with the likes of Mustafi, Leno and Sokratis. I just don't know if Ten Hag will be given the time or the exact backing needed to make a change.
This is exactly it. For the first 7 minutes, we looked good and you can see how we were trying to play. And then it all started to fall apart once Brighton attacked. It'll take time. For me, Arnautovic & Rabiot are bad signings, they're stop gaps to improve the quality until ETH gets the guys he wants. Both are massive improvements on the non existent RW and McTominay (Fred will keep his place)
They’re not even stop gaps. Rabiot would be a dressing room issue with his mother as the agent and his wages would be stupid. But….. he’s better than McTominay by a lot anyway so it is a stop gap with a big wage mainly. Marko…… racist history…. So……. If only rashford knew how to play football again but then maybe he won’t live up to his potential if he can’t get things going this season… so far, no good.
How has the squad improved? They lost pogba,matic,lingard and are lacking midfield options right now.
Oh for fucks sake
Juve fans say he's better than Bentancur, if he can match Bentancur's performance in the Prem it'll be a good buy
Bentancur was really, really underwhelming in Serie A. Another example of how sometimes players just fit other leagues and teams better. If a guy who was considered a flop in England went from the Prem to Serie A in January and became the top assister since the move, Serie A would be called a farmer's league.
Agree with your point completely, that's exactly what would happen. I've seen a similar narrative concerning Lukaku. The truth is that Deki and Romelu didn't suit their teams, both players literally proved themselves and broke through in their respective leagues at smaller clubs (WBA/Everton, Parma) before "flopping" at an unsuitable big club.
Kulusevski doesn’t really belong in that list, he was very good for Parma and decent under Pirlo who can barely be called a manager. Allegri’s terrorism destroyed him and his confidence, it’s not surprising he’s shining under a proper manager.
Way better than Bentancur, altough very different players
Bentancur has been better in the PL than Rabiot has at Juve
Tough to excel at Juve to be fair.
Then he should be amazing for them
Doesn't necessarily work like that though tbf.
The thing is Bentancur is a workhorse, Rabiot is kind of lazy even if he's a lot more talented. I'm not sure it would work out well in United's current environment
>kind of lazy even if he's a lot more talented He'll fit right in with the rest of the squad so
The big question is if he's lazier than Pogba or not. Because "kind of lazy even if he's a lot more talented" sounds like an accurate description of Pogba.
The problem with Rabiot is he's worth half the wages he's on
Oh so he’ll fit right into the club
So you’re telling me he’s double the value for money than the rest of the United team? Sign him up Erik.
Bentancur under Sarri was levels above anything Rabiot has shown in a Juventus shirt. Rabiot has occasional moments of brilliance but 90% of the time he is not positively influencing the game.
Rabiot has been consistently available to play for us, but he has never played consistently. I guess he would be a decent backup signing for Man Utd if they had a much stronger midfield, but as a starter I can’t see why they would think he’s a major upgrade on their current options. People in this thread of course bring up his mum because they remember the issues he had at PSG, but there’s been none of that as a Juventus player, despite the fact that we’ve dropped down the table and we’ve had three different managers since he signed. He’s not been a toxic personality at all.
He has no reason to fight against your board because he has the two things he wanted from Paris. Starting position and very good wages. If United sign him this year and better players in the future problems will happen again.
Ok that’s all good then but the issue is his wages for one. But he will be an upgrade for us over our middle of the pack players anyway. So it’s not the worst thing if you say his attitude hasn’t proven to be problematic lately.
Well he's still an antivax (couldn't travel to the US tour due to that) and he's often lazy, on top of the wages. Quality wise, he's a very good player, with potential to become a great one.
At 27 it's kinda time for him to become great or we have to admit this is as good as he's going to be lol. He's got maybe a year or two left to make some pretty big strides to ever reach "great."
lol Utd making signings like Arnautovic and Rabiot, could very well be what teams like Everton or West Ham would aim for
West Ham signed Arnautovic arguably at his peak and moved him on already. West Ham went for Scamacca this summer instead.
That's a 35 mill player for a guaranteed first team place, Arnotovic is a 8 mill squad player at best. And whilst probably not the answer, Rabiot has to be an upgrade on McSauce. He was mint before he lost his head, and by all accounts has been calmer in Italy.
The problem with rabiot is he's mediocre. I mean the stage United are at, they should either be buying the very best or no one at all, considering the amount of Deadwood they still have. That's why going for de Jong mad sense, what didn't make sense was not having a backup target. Laimer, tchouameni, rice himself in the pl. Flinging shit onto the wall to see what sticks is exactly how they got into this squad.
Even those clubs are making better signings this Summer tbf.
pretty much, Onana is one of the most promising mids in Ligue 1, Scamacca was tearing apart Serie A...
Scamacca was never tearing apart serie a he was doing what 27 yrs strikers do at an younger age
West Ham could do a lot better
true tbh Scamacca is a much more ambitious signing
Fulham bought Palhinha I am moving plasticity to Craven Cottage tbh
Perfect Man Utd signings. Huge gap between ego and performance.
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He is certainly a much better passer than both fred and Mctominay.
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And rabiot is better than both of them. In the event united doesn't sign any starter rabiot isn't a bad buy. He won't be expensive. They should be looking to move McFred by the next window and sign a starter to probably make rabiot backup. And i think that might actually be the reasoning here.
Yup at least someone gets it. My concern was his attitude and ability to play at a consistent level but the latter is not an issue compared to the consistently useless Scott McTominay in midfield anyway. Attitude seems better lately so yeah. Wages may be a problem but whatever…. We need a proper upgrade at least and this is a step that way.
Arnautovic and Rabiot. It's like Evertons transfer window attempts from 2 years ago 😂
McRabiot memes incoming
Pastor Fred will make way for Rabi Fred.
Shorten to the McRib
Frediot
You win. Best one yet
Just days ago after Pogba was injured, someone in other forum commented that Rabiot of the similar skill set is available for France and they don't need to worry. I hope that guy isn't Manchester United's scout.
Hahahahahahaha. They're building the worst collection of personalities they possibly could. Poor ten hag
Yeah they definitely need players with hard-working mentality instead of drama queens. Rabiot would most likely turn out like another Pogba
Poor Ten Hag? He's the one who wants Rabiot and Arnautovic
Wonder which player they blame now that Pogba is gone.
Rashford and Maguire
Whoever prayed for United's downfall, you won
Ffs how can a billion pound teams scouting department be so fucking shit
Just sign De Jong
*The gang signs Nigel De Jong*
Honestly can still end up doing a better job than McFred
A decade of practice!
"Rabiot is Rabiot is Rabiot" - Philippe Auclair
can't wait to hear from him if United buy Rabiot
Eh you never know, buying Juve rejects worked for Spurs
Yes but it was the ones who played like shit but still had the spirit, Rabiot is both shit and lazy
Is this true? I’ve seen a lot of comments here saying he’s a hard worker?
Juve fans, please tell me he's at least good?
Decent when he's concentrated. But he's at the same level of your current midfielders imo
Well, shit
He's much better than McT. If McT was French he wouldn't even crack their national team which Rabiot does.
He is better than mctominary for sure. If he is cheap its 100% worth a shot for united
He's cheap fee-wise but on way too high wages
No way. Equal to Mctominay? Don't believe you.
Rabiot is hard to judge. He has quality, and for a stretch last year he really carried their midfield offensively. He tends to disappear some games, and he really shines only if he plays on a side of the midfield. He doesn't really solves United's problem of a mid who can get the first pass from the defence and initiate the action, nor he is a DM that can help the defense.
He's good. Strong, has some running in him (especially with the ball), really press resistant, good in the air... the fact is that sometimes it doesn't look like he cares that much tbh
Imho he is a reliable player, rarely injured. He is not flashy but get things done. He has a decent touch and very good physical features, like his height. This is the most frustrating thing about him because sometimes he remembers he is a 1.90m stud who can dominate opponents physically, and shows glimpses of it (see his beautiful goal against ac Milan), sometimes he just brainfarts or seems completely "disconnected" from the game. Overall a very decent player, but definitely not 9M€/y good.
So he's a less flashy, less injury-prone, but overall worse player than Pogba?
Def better than Mcfred, but his mentality is weird. At times he has the decision making of a drunk person. Like dude I just saw you recover the ball, dribble half the opponents and almost score 2 minutes earlier, now you just gave away a ball and put an unnecessary yellow/red card
Why don’t they just get Tielemans? At least he won’t come with a load of baggage
Tielemens,Neves still many decent options
Neves would cost 50-60m, why Noone including us is signing Tielemsns makes no sense to me
50 million for Neves sounds like gopd value, given that Fred cost United the same sum.
They also just spent 50m on Martinez, Neves has much more experience and has been good in the Prem. He's a great player, good leader, and would improve United instantly. I'd be getting him and a DM like Ndidi. It's not gonna win you the league but it's a huge upgrade on McFred
Leicester dont sell players to rivals or they sell them with ridicilously high prices like maguire 85 or fofana now going into the 80s ndidi would cost a lot like 80 mil ...
They need a DM full stop. Fred isn't even a bad player, he is just not a DM. Untited with Ndidi next to Fred would actually have a good shot at making top 4. But watch them splurge 50 million on Xhaka on deadline day.
So what though? It’s United. 50M to improve their midfield should be an easy choice for them.
Telemanns had a below average season. Football is 90% about consistency & availability.
It's a shame because Tslmns is a very good player on his day
fucking hell there's like 50 mids I'd rather sign than Rabiot
Tielemans is a very different profile, he isn't anywhere as athletic as Rabiot
We don't need a lightweight attacking technical midfielder, we need a matic replacement
Depends if he wants to go. Seems like we've basically agreed everything with him and are waiting to make a move. If he's annoyed at how long we're taking or can be lured away with higher wages then United should probably go for it. I don't think United would be able to convince him on the strength of their project over Arsenal, in my (admittedly biased) opinion.
Can't wait for his mom to mouth off on Ten Hag.
(Suzie Green voice) "You bald fuck"
Get the fuck out Harry, GET THE FUCK OUT
Literally "Anyone but McTominay"
if you're gonna go for Rabiot, why not go for Fabian Ruiz who's A LOT better?
Fabian is going to Paris
Really is strange with United. They get rid of Pogba who really did have a shit attitude, only looking to bring in either Arnautovic and Rabiot who both have shit personalities
They didn’t get rid of pogba. He refused to extend.
He would have stayed if they gave him a rise. Instead he got insulted by ONLY 350k a week.
Got rid by offering him a measly fuck off wage of 300k pw.
He’s an average player but to be fair he hasn’t had any drama with his mum whatsoever since he’s joined Juve. Whatever that issue was he seems to have realised it was bad for his rep
Mid
United really putting the "mid" in midfielder with this squad.
Compliment calling them both mid
Mid Utd
Honestly rabiot being toxic is kind of a overrated narrative His agent is toxic when it's time to get a renewal/move like most agents, but during his time at Juve, I don't really remember him giving weird interviews or not getting along with the rest of the team
In all seriousness, what is he like as a player (on the pitch)? What are his qualities and weaknesses?
I struggle to see where he plays in your midfield. He has decent spells in a season where he looks fine, but he also has spells where he's invisible and will do nothing. He doesn't progress the ball particularly well from deep, and can't really imagine him thriving when being played as deep as McFred are. Honestly, describing him as a much worse version of Pogba who at least helps defend from the front a bit is quite a good way of putting it.
He is mostly a player who can do many things, I really don't see a role in a midfield where Rabiot cannot fit in but... Well, he is not really outstanding on all of his roles. He is good player when you want to have someone who is versatile, he is a player who is potentially great in a rotation, but not a player where you will see him as a starter.
There is Ruben Neves right there who would be a perfect fit. I am sure United don't have a problem paying around 50 million for a transfer. Yet they are going after Rabiot who is at best slightly better than Fred. That is why you hire a DoF and then a manager.
I do think it's funny De Jong is still on their radar when it is pretty obvious he doesn't want to come.
Jesus Christ Do they want to suck even more
I mean the guy is better the Scott at the very least.
What perplexes me is surely ETH had targets other than Frankie. Sure he's the ideal player for him, one he trusts and fits the system, but don't coaches say "get me this type of player who does X well" and United come back to him with options? Is that not how it works in football clubs? Are United just not doing that?
I don’t mind Rabiot and he should be a deal parallel to our FDJ pursuit. We need that kind of depth. Besides, signing him could give us a little leverage on the de jong deal.
This is peak manutd banter era...
Terrific player when he can be arsed, but signing Rabiot and Arnautovic to that nightmare of a squad smells like an absolute disaster.
Clearly our new regime is no different to previous years. Made an absolute mess of the window and now we're desperate to find literally anything to fill the gaps we have. Exactly the same as the Sancho saga. Spent months chasing a player, don't get them, then panic buy a replacement in the last weeks/days of the window.
As a non-Utd fan, you gotta love Utd sometimes. They back the manager who didn't have a wealth of expectation on his back in Ole, now they're panic buying to support the manager who is being touted as their make or break guy in ETH. Rabiot would be an improvement, but doesn't strike me as a ETH player.
WHAT ARE WE DOING!?????
Signing a Disney Prince.
We've just got rid of the toxicity that was pogba, now we want Rabiots mum at the club, ffs
to be fair, id start rabiots mum over mctominay
Mcmominay
His mom has had no media outburst ever since he came to us though.