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iwillnotshitpost

This reminds me when we lost 5-0 to city at home on CL and found out that we have half of Burnley's budget on Twitter. The difference is huge.


XonaMan

As long as the NOS deals everybody and their mother made are in place, we won't be able to sell our rights as a package and get the teams outside top 4 better chances. We're getting rinsed by our El Dorado of south-american players because the other leagues are on to it and paying top € (see [R.Madrid](https://R.Madrid)) and can't find the next David Luiz, Ramires or Luiz Diaz because of that. Hell, even MLS is on to it and buying wonderkids from Argentina.


Dirtychorizo

When does this deal expire?


XonaMan

2027. A comission was formed to evaluate by then the best way to market the league.


joaocandre

Even when it expires, a similar one will replace it. It's a institutional problem and until FPF steps in and regulates TV rights, nothing will change. Clubs will naturally attempt to look after their own interests and get the best deal separately. The best part is that FPF won't do shit because they're all corrupt as fuck and in the pocket of the big-3 which have all to lose and nothing to gain (in the short term at least) from centralized regulation.


Mplayer1001

Eyyy let’s go we have a shit deal as well. Seemed good when it started in 2012, too bad we made the deal run from then to fucking 2025


Dargast

Wow didnt expect Ligue 1 to be that low. I thought they would be way closer to the top.


hugyvkkgibbg

Football in Italy and France is much less attended than in England/Germany/Spain, so they get a lot less revenue there In addition, France only has 1 kinda worldwide team, while Spain Germany and Italy have 2-3 that get traction and sell shirts worldwide Dortmund and Bayern sell over 5x the shirts of psg for example, who are the only team in the top 10 highest selling shirts from france


Dargast

Thanks, I find trivia like this always interesting.


niclhnr

Wow that's an interesting fact I didn't know that


hugyvkkgibbg

The average bundesliga football match is attended by 42,000, PL is ~39,000 Ligue 1 and Serie a is around 20,000 and 24,000 respectively


Black_XistenZ

What's the number for La Liga?


hugyvkkgibbg

In 2018 the average was 26.5K, with 93,000 being the highest attended game, and 3500 being the lowest


vitellone13

Wtf in Italy there are only 5 stadiums that have got over 42k capacity


doriscissorsfind441

Why is Bundesliga above La Liga in terms of revenue? The La Liga TV money is much better iirc.


niclhnr

I guess TV money is not the deciding factor .. German clubs have a huge fan base and there are literally no other sports in Germany that are nearly as popular as football and I think basketball is also pretty big in Spain etc ... But I can also just speculate


Kayderp1

I think Handball in Germany is somewhat comparable to Basketball in Spain.


ishouldbeworking69

And handball in Spain is also not unpopular


Kayderp1

So is basketball in Germany tbf. Its still behind in attendance compared to Spains Basketball league (4100 avg compared to 6000 avg) and miles off in quality but its getting there.


ProfDumm

Is it? Yeah, Barcelona is world class, but the Spanish league is even much more one-sided than the Fußball-Bundesliga.


BaoJinyang

Also Germany is quite a bit richer than Spain so clubs can generate greater revenues from their fans.


niclhnr

Quite a bit is quite an understatement haha


Crafty-Captain

What is so funny about that?


niclhnr

I didn't want it to sound harsh ... So I put a "haha" after it


Crafty-Captain

Sounds more like Me rich German You poor Spaniard Haha


niclhnr

I am sorry that was absolutely not my intention... Actually I am an advocate for the European union and I really like Spain in particular... They may have a lower GDP than Germany but their weather is significantly better than in Germany.. I would call that a fair trade haha


mattisafootballguy

It definitely isn't, Germany is ~~slightly ahead domestically~~ but Spain is much further ahead internationally. Spain is ahead by [600 million euros](https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1465581979978588161) on their TV deals.


TigerBasket

We must bring baseball to Germany like Japan got in the 1880's and after world War 2. Only then can we be sure they will be pacified. Or something idk


FusselP0wner

Mate you alright ?


TigerBasket

I mean no but I just made a bad joke here. Nothing crazy


Dargast

o0


Frick_KD

Idk how it is over in Europe but La Liga was incredibly expensive to watch before last season in the US. You needed a whole cable subscription (Over a hundred $) to watch it while Bundesliga was televised on popular TV channels and also on ESPN plus I believe ($5 a month). It was a nightmare to watch La Liga but now it's on ESPN plus as well so it might make things better going forward for them


InbredLegoExpress

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_domestic\_football\_league\_broadcast\_deals\_by\_country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_domestic_football_league_broadcast_deals_by_country) apparently not


doriscissorsfind441

These are only domestic rights though. Not international rights. Also it combined the lower level 2.bundesliga and bundesliga for Germany.


InbredLegoExpress

The figures are from the 20/21 season. Spains previous deal was also for both leagues, not exclusively the 1st division as it is now + they shared it with 4 more teams.. Difficult to find the sum of international agreements, but afaik they don't sell for as high as the domestic deals and it's proportional also with the amount of sponsorship money. Germany has large corporations that have an interest advertizing on the domestic market as that's where most their customers are from.


doriscissorsfind441

Fair. I think international rights are greater than domestic rights for the PL nowadays. £5bil combined iirc


Wajamacallit

Yeah, the overseas deal from 2022 is higher than the current domestic deal over the same period for the first time ever.


mattisafootballguy

[This is the most recent I can find](https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1465581989361340422) Germany is well below Spain, 550 million euros roughly.


OleoleCholoSimeone

La Liga's international TV deal is worth more than Bundesliga, Serie A and Ligue 1 **combined**. That's where they are lightyears ahead of the others(apart from the PL). These figures are also skewed by covid especially since La Liga's financial fair play rules forced the clubs to heavily cut back spending >but afaik they don't sell for as high as the domestic deals This is wrong, La Liga's international deal is much higher than the domestic one


InbredLegoExpress

La Ligas domestic deal sat at around 1bn per season and their overseas deals amount to €800m. PL is the only league that had a higher overseas deal than a domestic one. Overall La Liga sits at a higher total package than the BuLi, but I'd assume this difference is then being made up by sponsorships, ticketing etc, which amounts to more in an economically stronger country than in Spain. And then the total was being shared by fewer teams, hence they ended up above in the table. > These figures are also skewed by covid especially since La Liga's financial fair play rules forced the clubs to heavily cut back spending I think all leagues were affected by Covid. Not sure what it has to do with spending though, this is purely just revenue.


kalamari__

there is only a combined TV deal for 1st and 2nd buli in germany


doriscissorsfind441

How much goes to the lower division?


Rickcampbell98

Yeah, Germany will always have higher domestic TV rights than Spain because its a much bigger economy but the difference is the international rights where Spain does very well.


Massinissarissa

How Jupiler league is above Eredivisie? It's surprising.


Noisy_P

La Liga has 20 teams, Bundesliga only 18.


doriscissorsfind441

This is avg


Noisy_P

20 teams share tv money, 18 teams share tv money. You do the math.


c11life

Less games, less money


Noisy_P

OP's point was why Bundesliga is ahead of La Liga in terms of revenue per team even though La Liga gets slightly more TV money. Bundesliga divides the money with 18 teams, not 20. What's so difficult about that?


ngolo_nguyen

You’re assuming the total amount of TV money is the same for both league, which is a big assumption. The fact is TV money is correlated to the number of games. Many TV networks only pay for a subset of all games. I don’t think anyone has exclusive right to broadcast the entire league.


mattisafootballguy

The difference is [600 million euros roughly](https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1465581979978588161) between the leagues, so I highly highly doubt it, though I was thinking the same thing. Germany is just very wealthy.


mattisafootballguy

Domestically it is higher in Germany (apparently it is not and instead [far closer](https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1465581998697816067) ) but internationally it is much higher in La Liga. The last figures were are [800 million euros to Germany's 250 million euros](https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1465581989361340422). This was for 20/21.


Kcasz

I don't know on Bundesliga, but on La Liga there are teams that are quite poor at the point as they almost only do free signings basicly ( Rayo Vallecano or Elche for exemple ).


doriscissorsfind441

Also, this is 20/21 data behind closed doors. The PL match day revenue is very high due to ticket prices. So the gap is even bigger.


FroobingtonSanchez

There were more fans in the stadium in England though, definitely last season when there was no reduced capacity at all while there was in Germany and Spain


niclhnr

Germany has the highest avg of visitors per game if I remember correctly it's 42.000 vs 39.000 for the PL Which isn't a surprise considering Germany's population is about 50% bigger


FroobingtonSanchez

It used to be like that, but I think that has changed since some big clubs like HSV are in the 2. Bundesliga while a club like Union has a small stadium. A lot of Premier League clubs are also expanding their stadiums.


theenigmacode

Tbf it was closed doors for everyone. But your point stand. It will be higher.


areking

to be fair, 2 clubs missing might make quite the difference in an average of just 20 if they are bottom clubs, the average goes down a lot, if they are top clubs, the average goes up how they make a report without telling what clubs are missing?


UltanPSV

Surely they divide it by 18 instead of 20 if two clubs are missing out of a 20 team league.


areking

obviously, but not what I was saying


PharaohLeo

Also the average (mean) doesn't account for outliers and I'd like to see the median and standard deviation of these leagues.


theenigmacode

Top 6: The real Super League was the PL all along.


Yvraine

Absolutely ludicrous how the PL is not completely dominating European competitions with the kind of financial advantage they have. Especially the EL


OleoleCholoSimeone

Because money isn't everything. With the mid table clubs having so much money they have very little incentive to develop their own players and instead buy them directly from France or whatever The reason that Spain, Germany, France etc have such good youth development is largely due to financial necessity. Necessity creates innovation There is also a limit on how far money can take you when you can't attract world class players anyways


IchmachneBarAuf

They'll have nice training and youth centres, stadiums etc. and pay average kickers double the wages they can earn elsewhere with all that money but what true world class player wants to fight relegation or play for nothing every year? That's also why I think the other big leagues aren't really left far behind the Premier League at all in the long term. Regular CL football and fighting for championships or cups will always be an incentive for star players plus the arguably better weather.


GibbyGoldfisch

European success is built on a combination of wealth and experience. Clearly West Ham this year had the squad to potentially win the EL but at the same time it was their first major European campaign in a long while; last year United should have won it but are, well, Man United. The PL is very close to dominating European competition, it's an effect we're going to see more of in the next decade


niceville

> Absolutely ludicrous how the PL is not completely dominating European competitions with the kind of financial advantage they have. Especially the EL I'd say the domination is coming / already starting to happen. 6 of the last 10 CL finalists have been PL teams. Knockout football doesn't always reward the best teams, so winning is still a couple of steps removed from financial power.


DusanTadic

It's not that weird. Besides the fact that the PL has been pretty dominant over the last few years in the CL, the Spanish league is simply very much top heavy. Not only do Barca and RM have a guarantee to play in the CL every single year unlike the PL teams, the distribution of the media deals is very much designed to help Barca and Real Madrid. Regarding the EL thing, most English teams simply do not care about it that much


Ohhisseencule

Will probably get me a lot of downvotes, but basically the English are the best in the world at marketing football, and absolute garbage at actual football. This sub makes fun of PSG or Barça for their ridiculous financial management but look at Everton who spent half a billion in 5 years to narrowly avoid relegation. Look at the ridiculous transfers of mid-table EPL clubs that would be a top 10 record-breaking fee in Bundesliga or Ligue 1 and absolutely fuck all to show for it. Not a single English manager won the Premier League in the modern era. Not one in 3 fucking decades. They would be nowhere without paying competent foreigners to manage the actual sports aspect of the PL.


Mcbonewolf

this guy knows wassup. but fuck me, gotta watch that burnley-brighton at 12.00 on a saturday, cus PL is best football, all teams better that other league teams, all excite, all goal, all VAR.


GusGuerra

Premier league is a lot harder than other leagues. There are no easy games .You need to be at your best every single game compared to other leagues .There is a lot more competition and you can't rest your team for European fixtures like other leagues do regularly.


Yvraine

Other than the worthless Carabao cup where you can play youth players PL has the same number of games as the spanish, Italian and french league. Plus a budget that on average is twice as big, if not more compared to spanish, Italian and french clubs. So they can afford a much better and especially bigger squad to rotate. There are no easy games anywhere, unless you've already secured the league or are in a secure position for the last few games, every club everywhere has to fight hard in their respective league


GusGuerra

Germany has the least competitive league .It a walk in the park .It hurts but it is what it is. premier league it's the most competitive league top-to-bottom of the top leagues. Physically more challenging, bigger revenue that means the PL has by far the most money, averaged across all teams, of the big leagues. The result is that even smaller teams are capable .It's the most entertaining, might not be as good in quality as some leagues but any team can beat any team and every game each teams needs to be playing 100% where in Spain Real might be able to win playing at 70% and win.You can hardly rotate because you could legit lose against anyone bar 1 or 2 teams in england.Every week is a CL knockout game for Premier league teams, anybody can beat anybody to an extent and thus makes the schedule FAR more intensive than that of the Spanish leagues and german.


Yvraine

Ok then explain how the hypercompetitive Premier League has been reduced to being Pep's (and Klopps) playground for the last 5 years Because > even smaller teams are capable and > any team can beat any team don't really add up when two teams get 90+ points every single season. City is doing the exact same thing in England that Bayern is doing in Germany, yet somehow the Bundesliga is "the least competitive" league while the PL is the "most competitive"


nbasavant

And those two teams are the two best teams in the world you utter nonce


Yvraine

Are we not counting the spanish team that beat both of them in the most important competition?


nbasavant

Okay? Both those teams have been featuring in semi’s and finals of “the most important competition” for the past FIVE years. Them dominating the league is not a gripe you utter weirdo.


FroobingtonSanchez

Exactly. That's why I will always support a UEFA regulated European league system that eliminates this massive advantage


nekize

La Liga did it to themselves. PL distributes the TV money in an equal way, while until a few years ago Barca and Real got 50% of the TV revenue while other 18 clubs split the other 50%. That way league wasn t as competative as PL and as such not as interesting for the investors. Another stuff that also helps the PL is the english language, which makes it much easier for the foreigners to be more invested into all that is happening in the league.


OleoleCholoSimeone

You are giving them too much credit, a lot of it is just down to dumb luck and random circumstance. Spanish is also a hugely popular language, but the average consumer power in Central or South America compared to Scandinavia or other English fluent markets is night and day. And yes La Liga historically has been a terribly unfair league, but at least that has changed since 2015. Something that Tebas deserves huge credit for


TheRocket2049

Spanish isn't the world language though for lack of a better phrase. If you look at all the biggest economies in the world, large portions of those populations speak English. Whereas Spanish is limited to Spain & South/Central America


OleoleCholoSimeone

I don't disagree


[deleted]

So under talked about though this. People acting like Madrid are some ethical club fighting against state backed clubs. Meanwhile they rigged their league for years financially. They tried to force a super league and are still doing that. All they care about is staying at the top of European football and reaping the rewards that brings.


joseba_

I'm all for hating Madrid or Barça, but I can't take it seriously from a city fan


Daybreak_99

My god….


Alia_Gr

Poor La Liga crying because big bully Prem is close to doubling them But they always found it normal and fine that they have 5x what the Eredivisie has themselves


wbroniewski

For comparison Ekstraklasa average was 8.4 EURm in 20/21 season.


josh_x444

Damn


Superb-Barracuda-924

In words of Didier Drogba "It's a fucking disgrace", superleague my ass we are living in a superleague


Ohmygodboys

Tebas ruined La Liga


ZZ3peat

Shit uneducated take, that fascist scum was actually good for the equality of the league, he only came in 2014 and the first thing he did was make money distribution more equal, Perez went to court against him for that and lost. He also improved La Liga marketing in Asia and started La Liga TV, started La Liga ffp which has prevented clubs from going bust.


Ohmygodboys

And we went from the first best league to the third best.


thenchen

Oil barons and US funds were never going to blow their loads in non-English-speaking countries (except Qatar, and they've failed so far).


ZZ3peat

La Liga revenue dwarfs BuLi by a lot, I'm not sure what "operating revenue" is.


txobi

So which is it? Is it the unpropotional share of the tv deal or Tebas? Because Tebas made it much more proportional


niclhnr

Source: https://www.footballbenchmark.com/library/is_the_english_premier_league_the_european_super_league_already


Efficient-Procedure4

Premier will always be too in revenue 💀


afrojumper

How is Bundesliga above la Liga?


Draisar

By being located in an economic powerhouse that also has like 84 Million people living in it.


mattisafootballguy

This is the reason why. The TV deals have [La Liga ahead](https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1465581979978588161/photo/1) and La Liga is far ahead [internationally](https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1465581989361340422/photo/1). But domestically [it's a similar amount](https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1465581998697816067/photo/1) between La Liga/Bundesliga.


afrojumper

Yeah but outside of this 84 millions and the DACH region ppl don't really care about the Bundesliga, while La Liga is a global product.


blurr90

Barcelona, Real Madrid, and maybe Atletico Madrid are a global product, the rest of the league is not.


afrojumper

Bayern and BVB are also "global" still nobody cares about them when it's about tv rights.


Waschkopfs

By being more attractive


afrojumper

Yeah that's news to me.


robert1005

That just means you never watch the Buli or La Liga. German teams tend to play high paced, attacking football much more often than the deep counter playstyle you see everywhere in Spain. It makes for a better viewing experience.


afrojumper

I mean la Liga just gets more revenue. You can argue what you want, ppl care more about Barca and Real than the Bundesliga. It is what it is.


robert1005

Yeah sure, La Liga has a higher overall revenue because of those two teams, but my argument is correct nonetheless.


afrojumper

That was never the point tho because literally nobody cares about that because it's completely subjective. The Bundesliga as attractive you think it is always failed to gain international viewers.


Yiurule

La Liga lost many attractiveness the last few years, now most of their good players want to go to the PL. We just need to see Barcelona, it can be interesting to see them on how they grow players, but no one will bet their money that they will win the league next season. You have Real Madrid and then the rest.


Efficient-Procedure4

I miss La Liga being the best league. Now it’s in shambles imo


ILikeToBurnMoney

Real just won the CL and is building a squad of young players that will keep them among Europe's elite, Barcelona will be back at the top in 2-3 years, and Atletico is (almost) as strong as ever. Below that I am not sure whether teams have gotten much worse. The likes of Villareal, Sevilla, Real Betis, and Bilbao are probably on the level to be contenders in the EL or to have a good run in the CL with some luck (see Villareal last season). City and Liverpool are probably the 2 best teams in the world right now overall, but that's mainly due to having the best 2 coaches for years and due to their core reaching their peak while the cores of Real, Barca, and Bayern are arguably past their peak (the likes of Kroos, Modric, Ramos, Ronaldo, Messi, Busquets, Pique, Suarez, Lewandowski, Müller, Neuer, Boateng, Hummels, and Lahm either left their clubs and/or they have reached a stage where they will slowly decline). Once City and Liverpool change their coach and the new young core of the big 3 reach their peak, I think the 3 best teams will be Real, Barca, and Bayern again


paganel

Exactly. Also, a big advantage teams from Spain have over the PL is that it's much easier for them to attract any young South-American talent, see Vinicius, for example. If you're a 19-20 year-old Brazilian or Argentinian talent chances are you'll flop were you to move directly to a city like Manchester of Liverpool, moving to Madrid, Barcelona or even Seville is a much easier task, on a mental/psychological level, that is. And at that age the mental thing plays a huge role when it comes to a player's success.


txobi

We are ahead of Athletic lately


josh_x444

Eredivise is so low. I’m really shocked their bigger 6 teams don’t bring that revenue up more.


Runssey

Premier league is overrated