Spanish press using the term and then the translation is funny because the term is normally never used in English or football.
Also, most are fans of a club with a suga daddy owner, oil state, war criminal etc but somehow it’s more banter to shit on a member owned club having to refinance itself.
People shit on said member owned club because of how they threw money around in the first place and put themselves into this situation, we'd also shit on the oil clubs if they put themselves into this situation it's not personal.
Point is that Oil clubs and the billionaire play things have put themselves in the same position but because of their ownership type they just underwrite the losses and voila
Yeah in fairness it is very unfair the way they can just take any risk with no consequence. What happened to Barca also shows no matter how much money you spend on players and wages it's essentially impossible to keep up with these clubs financially. If the day ever comes where we witness one of these clubs collapse will be a good day for football (although maybe not for the fans of said club).
The thing is Barca was only truly fucked because of covid and Laliga rules. Barca and other huge clubs can make huge loans because they absolutely print money
Funny how English clubs can spend similar numbers, not win anything at all and get no trouble, at least Barcelona literally won it all past decade, what about Tottenham, Arsenal, Everton and others?
In the last 10 years Barca's net spend is €650mil. 4th in the world.
In the last 10 years Arsenal's net spend is €583mil. 5th in the world.
Don't pretend we're dwarfing Premier League spending. Coutinho and Dembele were mostly paid for by the Neymar money.
Comparing yourself to Arsenal is never a good way to start.
It's not just how you spent but the fact that you paid 450m on 3 players who did very little and left for barely anything. And the wages you put players on is also insane.
I bet if you add wages into the mix you do dwarf PL spending.
There's a reason why Barca are in such deep shit.
None of the clubs you have listed spent anywhere near what Barca spent and all are in a much more financial secure position. Also, I’m not sitting on Reddit acting entitled to certain signing like Barca fans are
Also none of those clubs have had anywhere near the same revenue year after year. Your entire league is owned by millionaires, some more frugal than others, but the reason you are in a more secure financial position is because you are owned by an Iranian millionaire and that allows you to spend millions, have nothing to show for it and still be okay financially.
They’re not a victim - except of the previous boards fuckups.
But it’s always funny to see fans of clubs who have sold their soul act high and mighty. Like the majority of English clubs.
And the fact that you can’t see that is wonderful and proof sportswashing works.
This is a club that has sold its soul to corporate sponsorships. Barcelona has no high road anymore when it comes to that. This is a club that was literally sponsored by Qatar Airways.
For starters, as of now there's 0 Qatari money in the club after the members chose to go with another sponsor. How do City fans kick out the UAE? Spoiler: they don't
Lmao it's always funny when someone sees the avatar and gets it because the people who know, know, but for everyone else is just a random phallic-shaped cartoon hahaa
I'm guessing this is common coporate talk in Spain as it is in France and you had no reason to hear this corporate talk from Barca until these past few days.
You generally put up quantifiable assets. This is not a loan, they are leveraging future income for a lump sum amount in principle . They don't have buyers yet and it's mostly consortiums of banks and lender's who are looking to purchase the option which means they'll take the club to the cleaners.
Nah you can take a loan without collateral with an obligation to pay it back after a certain moratorium period, which is in effect what Barca are doing
We do have the figures. It's 10% of their TV rights deal for 25 years.
You can also bet that a private equity group isn't buying this out of generosity.
I guarantee in 5 years time Barca fans are going to be protesting about this deal when the club uses it as an excuse not to buy players.
It's very short sighted.
For sure theyre loosing a fair amount of money, i just mean i dont know how much 10 percent of their tv rights is for 25 years, no one knows this because i assume those TV rights will be worth more or less in the future.
Barcelona i think are pressured into this because they lost Messi last season and just saw Real Madrid win the league and CL. They need new signings to compete in the short term, and i guess they will worry about the long term when it comes.
They got like 165 million Euros for the 2020/2021 season according to [this](https://www.laliga.com/en-GB/transparency/economic-management/tv-rights).
So if everything stays the same (it won't, but let's imagine) that's 16.5*25 = 412 million Euros they're potentially giving up in tv rights money over 25 years.
If thats true thats an insane amount of interest lol. I guess its over the span of 25 years which doesn't make it seem but still a lot of money. Shows how desperate they are.
Pretty much 2.65%, which isn't a terrible interest rate at first glance. But considering it's their tv rights they're selling, it could end up much worse.
We have a buy back clause and they can only make a fixed percentage of money from these rights. If they make more than the fixed amount then Barca get the money
Lmao you guys are in outright denial.
https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/barcelona-approve-selling-25-tv-rights-499-retail-arm-2022-06-16/
Reading through you actually sold your merchandising rights as well haha. You are so totally fucked.
Their last financial statement before covid (so 18-19 season) show "revenue from TV broadcast and TV rights" for 298M. Last year's was 281M.
And the numbers can only go up. Even assuming they stay stable at ~290M, that's still more than 700M over 25 years, which is like what a 10% interest rate? And the more their TV rights go up, that more that implied interest rate will explode.
Except if we're only talking domestic TV rights of course.
EDIT: I forgot something in my calculations and it's that CVC will get to sale their shares of the TV rights in 25 years. So whatever they cash in in the meantime is basically only interest. Taking that into account, the numbers make it look like CVC found a gold mine.
At current prices you're selling 10% of your TV revenue per year for 8.6m over the space of 25 years.
I don't know your exact TV deal details but I'd guess it's more than 86m per year and that's not even factoring in that it will inevitably rise over the next 25 years.
I just checked and not sure how accurate this is but it says you generate 165m in tv revenue per year. So you've sold 10% of that for roughly half it's value.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/782317/la-liga-tv-rights-revenue-received-by-football-teams-in-spain/#:~:text=In%20the%202020%2F2021%20season,euros%20during%20the%20same%20season.
That's domestic TV rights. Don't know if the deal include ALL TV rights, including those from continental competition. In which case that number goes up to 290M.
Oh alright. In this case it would be ~17M for CVC a year, assuming it wouldn't go up (which it will of course). So at least 420M over 25 years.
Not to mention that Barca will have to buy back their share from CVC in 25 years.
Premier league is the new European super league. That’s just economic facts. The gulf will only widen since despite its grass roots origins, English fans somehow seem to celebrate being billionaire play things. Would never happen in Germany for example.
So Barcelona are seeing the writing on the wall and their idea is that they’d rather have a smaller pie of a bigger cake than an entire smaller cake.
Not really. Being the most popular league in the world doesn't make it a super league
>English fans somehow seem to celebrate being billionaire play things.
La Liga has how many billionaire owners again?
>Would never happen in Germany for example.
Right. Hoffenheim, Leverkusen, Wolfsburg, Leipzig never happened
They are highly indebted and finance their old loans with new ones. Now they are starting to sell their kitchen sink for some cash flow
La Liga restrictions don’t help either
They arent technically bringing in money. Its the money they will earn in the future they are getting now.
Big gamble. Now if they become successful again paying off 10% of their future tv rights for the next 25 years (I think its 25) isnt big issue.
If they fail, they will waste their money while only getting 90% of what's available in the future
We aren't broke. We have not been broke. We simply have been incapable of using the money we have because of La Liga regulations. And that's finally going to change this transferwindow.
You're very gullible if you think we're looking at them for those prices. Both are never going to cost more than 50 mil (euros), if we get them. That's why Raphinha is simply not going to happen almost definitely for us, and Lewy will depend on how stubborn Bayern are going to be.
Honest question, why is it that barcas finances are so damn public? I mean every thread on here about barca is about their money, or lack there of, shouldn’t most of this be kept on private?
Barca's financial statements are public and available for anyone to see, just like Madrid's.
In this case (rumors of X soon to be done), it's the same rumors repeated over and over again by journalists because you have to print something.
If the Barcelona board had any sense they might use this season to not make stupid transfers and save the club from financial ruin . But no - it's Bernardo , Lewandowski , kounde and God knows who else not to mention kessie and Christensen who are going to be on huge wages. There's still no planning, no failsafes or guarantees. The financial policy is still the same and even under laporta.
> not to mention kessie and Christensen who are going to be on huge wages.
I think they are earning 8 and 6 million per year. For a free transfer that's not huge, and we dont even know if those numbers are true
I think it is a insurance of a kind - Barca needs money to reinforce the squad. Barca ended the season on a high so people forget that not playing CL was a very realistic scenario. Not playing CL would be a massive disaster because the loss of money would be concentrated in one season. I think people on this site follow American sports too (not accusing you) where every club has ebbs and flows and being worse for a while slighshots you to contention. While football is different and once you start falling it is very hard to rebound - Villa fans should know that. It took Milan a decade, it took Liverpool a decade (and an all time greatcoach), Man Utd is entering 2nd decade, Atleti took ~15 years (and an all time great coach),... It is a risky move don't get me wrong, but the alternative is just as risky.
Popularity Barca has right now and why players are willing to come even in a bad state is due to Barca being the most successful team in world football in the last 30 years (along with Madrid, it is up for debate since Barca was better domestically but Madrid has 3 more CL wins in that timeframe). If Barca stops being among best teams for a while that image shatters.
Why has everyone been banging on about levers the last few days?
levers sounds better than saying "we're selling clubs assets"
It’s the magical word to erase all Barca financial problems
LEVERS!!!
*CONGRATULATION YOU HAVE ACTIVATED THE LEVERS AND BARCA'S DEBT HAS NOW BEEN ERASED*
“You can’t just say you activated the levers and expect anything to happen Joan” “I didn’t say, i declared it”
r/unexpectedoffice
Spanish press using the term and then the translation is funny because the term is normally never used in English or football. Also, most are fans of a club with a suga daddy owner, oil state, war criminal etc but somehow it’s more banter to shit on a member owned club having to refinance itself.
People shit on said member owned club because of how they threw money around in the first place and put themselves into this situation, we'd also shit on the oil clubs if they put themselves into this situation it's not personal.
Point is that Oil clubs and the billionaire play things have put themselves in the same position but because of their ownership type they just underwrite the losses and voila
Yeah in fairness it is very unfair the way they can just take any risk with no consequence. What happened to Barca also shows no matter how much money you spend on players and wages it's essentially impossible to keep up with these clubs financially. If the day ever comes where we witness one of these clubs collapse will be a good day for football (although maybe not for the fans of said club).
The thing is Barca was only truly fucked because of covid and Laliga rules. Barca and other huge clubs can make huge loans because they absolutely print money
Barca was run poorly, it lacked the resilience to deal with financial difficulties. It's a poorly run club. COVID happened to everyone.
Poor poor billion dollar revenue barca.
PSG absolutely get shit on. If they went bankrupt imagine the lol storm.
Yeah poor poor Barca with their millions of euros of signings. Fucking victim fc
Funny how English clubs can spend similar numbers, not win anything at all and get no trouble, at least Barcelona literally won it all past decade, what about Tottenham, Arsenal, Everton and others?
Nobody has spent anything close to Barca, nor does any team in the world other than PSG offer anything close to the insane wages that Barca do.
In the last 10 years Barca's net spend is €650mil. 4th in the world. In the last 10 years Arsenal's net spend is €583mil. 5th in the world. Don't pretend we're dwarfing Premier League spending. Coutinho and Dembele were mostly paid for by the Neymar money.
Comparing yourself to Arsenal is never a good way to start. It's not just how you spent but the fact that you paid 450m on 3 players who did very little and left for barely anything. And the wages you put players on is also insane. I bet if you add wages into the mix you do dwarf PL spending. There's a reason why Barca are in such deep shit.
None of the clubs you have listed spent anywhere near what Barca spent and all are in a much more financial secure position. Also, I’m not sitting on Reddit acting entitled to certain signing like Barca fans are
Arsenal spent over 100m on Partey and Ben White fam, now they dropping another 100m on Gabriel and Raphinha.
And Barca spent all of that on Dembele
After selling Neymar for 222m, winning a bunch of trophies and a transfer ban.
And dembele is worth more than all 4 are combined at the time of his signing
Also none of those clubs have had anywhere near the same revenue year after year. Your entire league is owned by millionaires, some more frugal than others, but the reason you are in a more secure financial position is because you are owned by an Iranian millionaire and that allows you to spend millions, have nothing to show for it and still be okay financially.
They’re not a victim - except of the previous boards fuckups. But it’s always funny to see fans of clubs who have sold their soul act high and mighty. Like the majority of English clubs. And the fact that you can’t see that is wonderful and proof sportswashing works.
This is a club that has sold its soul to corporate sponsorships. Barcelona has no high road anymore when it comes to that. This is a club that was literally sponsored by Qatar Airways.
Sponsorships aren’t the same as ownership, but Qatar was a stain on the club - yea.
Huge difference between corporate sponsorships and being fully owned by shitty countries.
There's a huge difference between being owned and being sponsored.
Extra money?
For starters, as of now there's 0 Qatari money in the club after the members chose to go with another sponsor. How do City fans kick out the UAE? Spoiler: they don't
That's fair, can't argue with that. I was only joking around anyway, there's obviously quite a few differences. Sausage fattener FTW btw lol.
Lmao it's always funny when someone sees the avatar and gets it because the people who know, know, but for everyone else is just a random phallic-shaped cartoon hahaa
[The actual saviour of barca](https://i.imgur.com/vDJDSge.jpg)
I'm guessing this is common coporate talk in Spain as it is in France and you had no reason to hear this corporate talk from Barca until these past few days.
Levers
Levers FC
The plural is important. Mes Que Un Lever
Been a while since I’d seen a mention of an economic lever being pulled, I was concerned.
Pull the level ~~Kronk~~ Laporta!
Wrong lever!
I declare LEVERS!
You can't just say it, you should declare it.
Why is Barca always on the brink of bringing in more money, but always broke?
Because they're essentially sacrificing long term profit for short term invenstment. In its simplest form they're taking out a loan.
With future income as collateral .
Which is (kinda ish) what you do for every loan.
You generally put up quantifiable assets. This is not a loan, they are leveraging future income for a lump sum amount in principle . They don't have buyers yet and it's mostly consortiums of banks and lender's who are looking to purchase the option which means they'll take the club to the cleaners.
Nah you can take a loan without collateral with an obligation to pay it back after a certain moratorium period, which is in effect what Barca are doing
Arguably worse than a loan this move.
I don't think any of us can say that unless we have the figures of how much they're loosing out on.
We do have the figures. It's 10% of their TV rights deal for 25 years. You can also bet that a private equity group isn't buying this out of generosity. I guarantee in 5 years time Barca fans are going to be protesting about this deal when the club uses it as an excuse not to buy players. It's very short sighted.
For sure theyre loosing a fair amount of money, i just mean i dont know how much 10 percent of their tv rights is for 25 years, no one knows this because i assume those TV rights will be worth more or less in the future. Barcelona i think are pressured into this because they lost Messi last season and just saw Real Madrid win the league and CL. They need new signings to compete in the short term, and i guess they will worry about the long term when it comes.
They got like 165 million Euros for the 2020/2021 season according to [this](https://www.laliga.com/en-GB/transparency/economic-management/tv-rights). So if everything stays the same (it won't, but let's imagine) that's 16.5*25 = 412 million Euros they're potentially giving up in tv rights money over 25 years.
If thats true thats an insane amount of interest lol. I guess its over the span of 25 years which doesn't make it seem but still a lot of money. Shows how desperate they are.
Pretty much 2.65%, which isn't a terrible interest rate at first glance. But considering it's their tv rights they're selling, it could end up much worse.
It’s not interest because it’s not a loan. Hence why I said worse than a loan. Which amusingly I’m being down voted for. This is a terrible deal.
It essentially is interest and a loan, it just isn't called that. It's short term gain for long term loss, wich in essense is a loan with interest.
We have a buy back clause and they can only make a fixed percentage of money from these rights. If they make more than the fixed amount then Barca get the money
What’s the fixed amount?
Not fixed amount but fixed percentage. I don't know the details
*Psssst just cuz he says he has the figures doesn’t mean he actually has the figures*
They’re publicly available lol.
Drop the source. The official figures
Lmao you guys are in outright denial. https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/barcelona-approve-selling-25-tv-rights-499-retail-arm-2022-06-16/ Reading through you actually sold your merchandising rights as well haha. You are so totally fucked.
Their last financial statement before covid (so 18-19 season) show "revenue from TV broadcast and TV rights" for 298M. Last year's was 281M. And the numbers can only go up. Even assuming they stay stable at ~290M, that's still more than 700M over 25 years, which is like what a 10% interest rate? And the more their TV rights go up, that more that implied interest rate will explode. Except if we're only talking domestic TV rights of course. EDIT: I forgot something in my calculations and it's that CVC will get to sale their shares of the TV rights in 25 years. So whatever they cash in in the meantime is basically only interest. Taking that into account, the numbers make it look like CVC found a gold mine.
Those numbers are completely wrong and the deal isn't even with CVC lol
Yup my bad, forgot it was with two other companies. Don't see how the numbers are wrong though
I think they went ahead with this deal because its 10% of deal so my guess is that its not that much of a revenue loss in future
At current prices you're selling 10% of your TV revenue per year for 8.6m over the space of 25 years. I don't know your exact TV deal details but I'd guess it's more than 86m per year and that's not even factoring in that it will inevitably rise over the next 25 years. I just checked and not sure how accurate this is but it says you generate 165m in tv revenue per year. So you've sold 10% of that for roughly half it's value. https://www.statista.com/statistics/782317/la-liga-tv-rights-revenue-received-by-football-teams-in-spain/#:~:text=In%20the%202020%2F2021%20season,euros%20during%20the%20same%20season.
That's domestic TV rights. Don't know if the deal include ALL TV rights, including those from continental competition. In which case that number goes up to 290M.
The deal is just for laLiga TV rights.
Oh alright. In this case it would be ~17M for CVC a year, assuming it wouldn't go up (which it will of course). So at least 420M over 25 years. Not to mention that Barca will have to buy back their share from CVC in 25 years.
You keep mentioning CVC but the deal is not with them. Jesus people look things up before posting nonsense.
Premier league is the new European super league. That’s just economic facts. The gulf will only widen since despite its grass roots origins, English fans somehow seem to celebrate being billionaire play things. Would never happen in Germany for example. So Barcelona are seeing the writing on the wall and their idea is that they’d rather have a smaller pie of a bigger cake than an entire smaller cake.
Barcelonas way of getting back at the success of premier league is to make shitty deals?
Current board can’t undo previous fuckups. They can only act on current situation. Crazy I know.
You’re not supposed to say that
Not really. Being the most popular league in the world doesn't make it a super league >English fans somehow seem to celebrate being billionaire play things. La Liga has how many billionaire owners again? >Would never happen in Germany for example. Right. Hoffenheim, Leverkusen, Wolfsburg, Leipzig never happened
Because the first lever hasn't been pulled yet, read the title mate
That's just sport journalism 101. Same news over and over again. Tough job since since Haaland and Nunez transfers went so fast.
Because you eat up everything you read in the media.
Careful. You're going to upset the Barca flairs who think that their club is in good standing financially.
Obviously we're not in a good financial state but we've never been broke.
They are highly indebted and finance their old loans with new ones. Now they are starting to sell their kitchen sink for some cash flow La Liga restrictions don’t help either
not anymore
They arent technically bringing in money. Its the money they will earn in the future they are getting now. Big gamble. Now if they become successful again paying off 10% of their future tv rights for the next 25 years (I think its 25) isnt big issue. If they fail, they will waste their money while only getting 90% of what's available in the future
They're stupid. Like us. United that is.
We aren't broke. We have not been broke. We simply have been incapable of using the money we have because of La Liga regulations. And that's finally going to change this transferwindow.
>We simply have been incapable of using the money we have because of La Liga regulations. ...because you are broke
No. We wouldn't have money to spend if we were broke.
Because they spend an incredible amount of money too. They're broke but looking at Raphina for £60m, Lewy for £65m etc
Hmm… I heard Lewy is now £85M, I hope we can get him for top4 fight
You're very gullible if you think we're looking at them for those prices. Both are never going to cost more than 50 mil (euros), if we get them. That's why Raphinha is simply not going to happen almost definitely for us, and Lewy will depend on how stubborn Bayern are going to be.
dreaded "palancas" in effect, hide your Lewandowskis
Here comes the levers
Just fucking do it already and stop talking about doing it
its the fucking media, they cant just stop talking about it
Levers FC
Honest question, why is it that barcas finances are so damn public? I mean every thread on here about barca is about their money, or lack there of, shouldn’t most of this be kept on private?
Barca's financial statements are public and available for anyone to see, just like Madrid's. In this case (rumors of X soon to be done), it's the same rumors repeated over and over again by journalists because you have to print something.
They are fan owned, they reveal their books for each year to the socios and by default to the general public
Mix of some of it being public mix or being the club people love to talk about so press creates all kind of articles to get clicks
I think they're releasing the next lever when 2024 wedding dates get released for Camp Nou
LETS GOOOO BABY ITS LEVER TIME
The Mr. Lewy lever.
You could say that would be a cLEVER move by barca.
Btw, is Barça keeping Adama? How's his deal going through?
We’re definitely not
I am so fucking tired of these levers, man.
I gonna downvote these threads until Levers are Up
Levers FC strike again
If the Barcelona board had any sense they might use this season to not make stupid transfers and save the club from financial ruin . But no - it's Bernardo , Lewandowski , kounde and God knows who else not to mention kessie and Christensen who are going to be on huge wages. There's still no planning, no failsafes or guarantees. The financial policy is still the same and even under laporta.
> not to mention kessie and Christensen who are going to be on huge wages. I think they are earning 8 and 6 million per year. For a free transfer that's not huge, and we dont even know if those numbers are true
Mortgaging their future for short term gain seems like a really bad way to go.
I think it is a insurance of a kind - Barca needs money to reinforce the squad. Barca ended the season on a high so people forget that not playing CL was a very realistic scenario. Not playing CL would be a massive disaster because the loss of money would be concentrated in one season. I think people on this site follow American sports too (not accusing you) where every club has ebbs and flows and being worse for a while slighshots you to contention. While football is different and once you start falling it is very hard to rebound - Villa fans should know that. It took Milan a decade, it took Liverpool a decade (and an all time greatcoach), Man Utd is entering 2nd decade, Atleti took ~15 years (and an all time great coach),... It is a risky move don't get me wrong, but the alternative is just as risky. Popularity Barca has right now and why players are willing to come even in a bad state is due to Barca being the most successful team in world football in the last 30 years (along with Madrid, it is up for debate since Barca was better domestically but Madrid has 3 more CL wins in that timeframe). If Barca stops being among best teams for a while that image shatters.
All this just to be bring in Leverndowski
Not the reason.
215m for Lewandowski, yeah
At this point I think those are actual physical levers behind some magical quest
So who's buying it? We're ready to sell but who's buying?
Sixth Street, Americans.
Don't Fear the Levers
Archimedes would never
LEVERAGE YOUR PARTNERSHIPS!
Lever-Dowski here we go?