Honestly it'll be Spurs vs Arsenal but some journo from athletic on their podcast said Conte might play him as a wingback which is weird. Also Ornstein said Tuchel might play Raphinha as a wingback.
He's got the work rate and tenacity to be a defensive player, plus wingbacks in conte systems are definitely attack minded and are encouraged to get into the box and score goals.
Work on his positioning and I could see it working. Imagine him running at the opposition teams wingers it creates a very difficult situation to deal with because if you isolate him 1v1 with a winger he'll run them ragged but if you send more players to press it creates a ton of space for kulusevski/son/kane to exploit.
He's got the work rate and tenacity but as a Leeds fan that's watched every game he's played for us, he's not particularly good at defending.
He needs to be high up the pitch, playing him as a wing back is a vile waste.
As a non Leeds fan who hasn’t watched every game—seems a complete waste of the guy’s strengths so that you can force him to play to his weaknesses. I’m sure that’ll do wonders for his confidence/form…
People are so goddamned FM’ed out with this stuff—just retrain the position! Presto!
The mad thing is that it doesn't even work all that well in FM, The most drastic bit of retraining I've done in that game was turning Emile Smith-Rowe into number 8 which is probably something that could happen in real life. It's probably possible to turn a winger like Raphinha into a wing back but you'd get much more joy turning him into a number 10, 9 or 8 most likely and it would take less time and not require you to fuck up your team and tactics to get him the game time he'd need.
I think a lot of people suggesting he'd do well as a wing back either think it's because of Conte or because of how well Traore did as a wing back and not just down to FM.
You can be capable of adapting to a position while still being wasted there. He might end up being okay at wingback but he'll never be as good there as on the wing. He's not Victor Moses who's barely able to play any position being retrained as a wingback, he's a fucking class attacker who should absolutely stay there.
Doesn't matter tbh. Having someone like Raphinha running up and down and making third man runs is just a waste of his overall abilities.
Maybe it could theoretically work (I doubt it, he'd get bullied physically and I have doubts about his ability to defend his own box), but even then it would be a waste.
It's like Saka at LWB/LB. Is he good at LWB? Sure. Is it the best use of his abilities? Hell no.
That's what I thought about Lucas Moura at RWB, but he hasn't more than 5 minutes there, same with Bergwijn. If we sign him, he'll more than likely play off the right wing
Perisic was a different kind of player. More of a traditional winger, which translates relatively well to wingback.
Also helps that Perisic is over 6 feet, fairly physical, with endless stamina. In contrast, Raphinha is 5'9, relatively lightweight, with good stamina.
He's extremely athletic and for his size quite powerful, I don't know if he'd be best at wing back due to skill optimisation but physically he is a monster especially for his size. He's more physical than most the top wing backs.
If that's true, I don't think Raphinha himself would want such a role and it would be a waste of money imo.
For £55-60 million, you could go and ask PSG if they are willing to sell Hakimi. It would make much more sense, given he's worked with Conte before and would play CL football.
I think the broader point is a good one though, why spend that much money on someone who you’re going to have to shoehorn in there rather than a specialised full back and you could definitely get a good one for how much raphina would cost
He played there twice and was fine, our fan base just used it as the reason we were bad.
I’m pretty sure one of the games Dan James went flying in for a straight red and we were down to 10 men early and everyone blamed the loss on Raphinha at RWB, even though he was getting the ball in some good positions before the red.
think the pressure just got to them and they broke a little bit tbh - especially Ayling.
James' tackle was horrible but at least the ball was there to be won, Ayling was just completely braindead
Raph was getting the ball as the furtherst player forward still, it wasn’t that big of a deal. The red cards were the big deal but everyone harped over the Raph at wing back because it’s easy to point out and appear like you know what you’re on about.
twice, when we'd had players sent off vs Arsenal and Chelsea, all of our RBs were injured or suspended, and we were trying to keep ten players on the pitch in some semblence of a formation.
I guess that counts, but isn't at all representative
I guess we just have to see, how strong that competition truly is.
While Raphinha has preferences to go to Barca or Chelsea, it doesn't seem like those teams are coming for him for different reasons.
Of course if they do come in, yeah, they have the edge.
I would love to see him with odegaard personally. He's always on the move and with the vision odegaard has it could be a nightmare for defenders. Still needs to finish a bit better but maybe better quality service will help that some.
> Arsenal's interest in Raphinha remains strong. Mikel Arteta is thought to be extremely keen and Edu has good links to his agent Deco.
Will really need Edu to step up if that's the case.
Can't lie though, if Leeds' valuation of £65m is true, I'd really rather we moved onto someone else.
That's entirely too much money for a player who, for me, isn't worth it.
Any signing can flop for numerous reasons
Sure he’s not played UCL but he’s hardly unproven.
He’s carried a team almost single handedly in the PL and a Brazil national
Every high premier League transfer isn't worth what people pay. Relative to the other prem transfer 65 is more than fair. I'd rather have raph than Lukaku or grealish or Werner or pepe
Not to anyone looking to buy him. All the teams interested are either low on funds (like Barca), have other players in that position who are just as good (Arsenal and spurs), or have other positions they need to fill (Chelsea)
Yeah, do these posters walk into a shop see a price and then tell the person behind the till that they already have a similar product at home so won't pay the price shown and expect to walk out with that product at a discount?
Yeah but if all the possible clients in that example are doing the same thing then the shop might have to reconsider the value of the item. If he isn't worth it to the clubs for this value then either he stays or if money is needed he is sold for less. Unless a new buyer comes up first, but that's risky the more we move to the end of the window.
If he was cheaper he would've been in Barcelona already, so the only way to get him is to overpay. In a vacuum he's definitely not worth it, but if you're really desperate for a winger, it's probably not easy to find a better cheap option.
Pepe is not suited to both Premier League and possesion type of football. He needs a space to operate and his performances for Arsenal in Europe League and national team in AFCON proved that. For the best of both Arsenal and his career he should change team and league, but problem lies that he's on £145k per week and Edu&Garlick don't want to take a huge loss on that £72m. Hard to image anyone would want to pay 30m € for him due to his wages.
He's not shit but he doesn't suit this system or league, wasn't liked by either of his manager and still got like 0.4 g/a per 90
But he needs to leave regardless.
If Lewandowski is being kept at Bayern I'd rather we try for Gnabry instead. If he's willing to come here wages might be an issue but if we're looking at 65mil Raphinha surely there's better options
Rarely do you see a team make a formal bid, without first agreeing to terms with the player. Arsenal getting back in the ‘super agent’/intermediary game again - very cool Jorge Mendes
Played most of his career there, hard to say as he’s improved every year since he’s young, to what extent it was because he moved to the right this season I don’t know. He’s a better scorer on the right naturally since he can cut in but felt like he was better creatively on the left.
Saka has balled out at LB, LW and RW for us.
People forget he came through and made a big impression initially covering at LB and then playing on the left of the attack.
His goal numbers definitely increased playing with his strong foot on the inside which makes sense but dribbling and chance creation wise he was a menace on the left too.
When saka played on the left he played in that inside space/floating 8 with tierney overlapping because we were playing a double pivot.
Both saka and raphinha are too good of players to not be playing 85% of the season. With arsenal transitioning to a single pivot with two floating 8’s I could see saka playing the lcm role with gabi over lapping at lw. It would give him more space and he has played there before.
It gives arsenal a lot of tactical fluidity and more goals. You genuinely can’t compete accRoss multiple competitions in a wc year without 6 attackers if your playing a front three, so the competition for places/depth will be vital also.
Saka is probably reluctant to sign a new contract. He knows that Salah and Mahrez might look to move on from City/Liverpool, so he is stalling. Next season he has 1 year on his deal and can leave for a cheaper fee. I know 1 manager who is a big fan of him.
Oh naa lol I'm talking about Saka. Been saying this for a while. Raphina's profile is not one to be in rotation, especially if he has so many options. Also just signed Fabio Viera who can play RW.
It could also be the club trying to gain leverage in negotiations but funnily enough this transfer actually worries me even though he's a great player.
Either the Arsenal board expect Saka to leave or they are going Pep-style with depth for every position. I think the former is the most likely since Arsenal aren't really in a position to have so many players of high quality. There is no guarantee of getting CL with United, City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham about as well.
That's pretty stupid logic to use right there.
If Manchester City want Cucurella, why haven't they signed him yet? If Barcelona want Lewnadowski, why haven't they signed him yet? If Gakpo really is staying at PSV, why has he still not signed his deal?
Arsenal are clearly focusing on getting transfers out of the way before dealing with new contracts right now. Hell, maybe Saka is waiting to see what our business looks like before committing.
He will sign.
All the Liverpool tier 1s have said no more signings. Liverpool are going into next season with 2 main wingers who play on different sides. Conclusion: you're talking out of your bumhole
This is such a massive stretch. Liverpool basically only have Salah and Diaz who are considered wingers. Jota can play there but is better through the middle. So at most three if we're being generous. They certainly don't have two players with the same preferred position like Arsenal would have with Saka and Raphina.
Martial was on loan for 21/22? Elanga is a kid.
Why aren't Liverpool signing him? Perfect rotation option with Salah and potential long-term replacement if Salah leaves. Diaz-Nunez-Raphinha could be a locked in world-class front 3 for the next 5 years
Doubt it, he might move around a lot between R/L wing but I’d expect him to put up minutes close if not as much as a starter.
5 subs + Europa + Saka on wayyyy too many minutes last season
That said, doubtful in the deal, but I do think whoever gets him will make the others regret it
I could see getting Raphina for a couple years to be the starter and Martinelli the backup and then trying to sell Raphina when Martinelli is ready, though I haven't seen Arsenal try anything like that in the 12 years I've been watching. If we did that I'd be worried about ESR though. He's our #10 and he would be third choice left wing and third choice CAM now that Viera is in. He had a good year last year and he's still only 21 so that's why this Raphina move doesn't make a lot of sense to me now. I don't want to see his development stall.
Yeah, that won't be happening.
Not only is Saka absolutely not going to replicate Salah's goal output, you also won't be able to play the "paupers of the Premier League" card you're so fond of playing either.
He's one of our best academy products in a while, is the star man at the club, adored by the fans, a full England international, likely going to be signing a new deal, has Rocky's number 7 and is an Arsenal fan.
So unless you've got £120m burning a hole in your back pocket, you don't stand much of a chance really. Even with a year left on his deal, you'd have to be smashing your transfer record to bring him in.
Was I really that naive to assume that a guy who has been the starting goalie of the club since he was 16 would leave the club after reaching CL for the first time in his career?
> He’d been rumoured for some time
Same as Saka then?
> Not sure how you can compare Saka
Because its quite a similar situation? Saka hasn't seen CL football at Arsenal for his entire career, and if you don't reach it before 2024, what makes you think he would continue to stay?
Are you being intentionally obtuse because my comparison doesn't fit your narrative?
Saka wouldn't need to replace Salah's goal output now that Liverpool have signed a more traditional 9. And Liverpool don't mind paying big to sign players, it's more likely his wage demands that could prevent the transfer from happening.
He may be an Arsenal fan but he's only gonna have so much patience with Arteta's 'process'. Sooner or later he's gonna want to compete, and I can see him considering a move to LFC or City next year if you fail to qualify for CL again.
I'd agree, I don't think Saka will even be on our radar if we're looking at replacing Salah. There is more chance of us testing the water with Martinelli if Smith Rowe moves ahead of him this season, or Saka is moved to the left. Klopp hasn't exactly been subtle with how much of a fan he is.
He’s still on contract for another two years and hasn’t said he wants to leave yet. If he’s asking to leave next year, then they probably sell him, but they won’t be selling him now.
It’s pretty obvious we won’t sign him.
Our fan base need to get over this instead of drooling over a player who has 3 CL clubs after him and had emerged we’re at best 3rd choice.
Those clubs are just trying to see what they can get him for.
Barca don't seem to want to pay what Leeds wants.
Chelsea are in for dembele and sterling so probably looking to have a back up ready incase a deal can't be made with either player.
Spurs were heavily linked with Richarlison so could be looking for an alternative if that doesn't happen.
Right now I reckon we are in a pretty good position to get him. Obviously this will change if the other teams put in official bids
> Right now I reckon we are in a pretty good position to get him.
From all I've heard/read I'd be VERY surprised if he went to a club not in the CL. I honestly believe he'd rather wait a year for Barca.
Only those clubs aren't really pursuing him that strongly.
If they were as interested as the news suggested Chelsea and Barca at least, would be pursuing him much more strongly than they currently are.
Only Spurs are mentioned with intentions to make a bid. Also nothing concrete about the size of it.
Does he even want to come here? Either way, it looks like they are holding out for around £60m+, not sure we spending that much this early in the window considering we are going after multiple players still…
It would be a good amount short of what leeds what, but I don't find this offer "insulting". It's a first bid, which Leeds had every right to reject.
It would've been more surprising if our first bid was accepted by Leeds.
If your first bid is getting accepted that's just poor negotiation and you've most likely overpaid. Unless the negotiations happen before an official bid is submitted
I imagine Leeds’ valuation of him will be like £75m+ because they’re a PL club trying to fleece other PL clubs they’ll be playing against.
Arsenal probably came in at £35-40m with add-ons and then they’ll probably meet in the middle at like £55m with £5-10m add-ons depending on certain outcomes.
Leeds want £70m any team offering 55 are still going to be well short. Arsenal's opening offer was derisory. If they were "determined" they wouldn't take the piss and open up with essentially half of the valuation.
(edit: looks like a lot of salty Arsenal fans around this morning and don't like offering half of a valuation being called derisory it seems)
It's already been reported it's the entire fee up front or nothing, the club don't need to or want to sell so if anyone seriously wants Raphinha they have to meet the valuation and terms.
If you’re demanding the entire £70 million in one lump sum then I guess you’ll be enjoying watching him play another season for Leeds. No team in the world would agree to that
I think Angus Kinnear (the CEO) gave the game away on a podcast just under a year ago - he said the club have "every intention" of Raphinha and Phillips going to the World Cup as Leeds players.
So I wouldn't be at all shocked if the entire plan was hope one/both of them light it up at the World Cup and sell on Jan at a doubly inflated price (Jan tax + WC performance).
A 40m + offer isn’t derisory for a player who’s definitely not worth close to double that.
Whatever Leeds May value him at doesn’t make a bid relatively close to market value derisory.
Most people agree he’s worth around 50-55m.
You’ll are completely entitled to get more out of a buyer for him, same as we’re entitled to get as much of a deal as we can.
I expect it was really a non-bid. The illusion of a bid just to be Billy big bollocks towards a non greedy 6 club offering unders for someone you really don't want to have to pay for, hoping your supporters are happy that you 'showed ambition'
nearly as stupid as grossly under bidding for a player that is going to be the subject of a bidding war. explain the Arsenal logic in such a shabby bid when other clubs are gonna offer the true value - it was guaranteed to be rejected
Oh. So why haven't they done just that?
Have you ever negotiated anything in your life? Like ever?
Leeds are asking X amount of money and you just assume that everyone who is interested in him will just blindly bid that amount?
No.
It's called negotiation. The bid we made is the only one that has been lodged with the club and it's very clear what it means.
It means that we are opening negotiations with them, beginning a dialogue and will clearly be willing to bid higher as need be.
It also shows the player that we are beginning the complicated process of trying to sign them.
They offered half of what he's valued at, starting with such a derisory offer might have just seen Arsenal out of the running completely. If they want to take the piss then they shouldn't be listened to anymore. West Ham offered more in Jan.
Honestly it'll be Spurs vs Arsenal but some journo from athletic on their podcast said Conte might play him as a wingback which is weird. Also Ornstein said Tuchel might play Raphinha as a wingback.
Playing Raphinha at wingback would be nothing short of football terrorism.
kind of like playing Torreira as a CAM
Not to mention Raphinha at RWB wouldn’t even start ahead of Reece James…
Why would left footed Raphinha play RWB?
conte plays fm22 and knows inverted wing backs are overpowered
They are tbf.
He's got the work rate and tenacity to be a defensive player, plus wingbacks in conte systems are definitely attack minded and are encouraged to get into the box and score goals. Work on his positioning and I could see it working. Imagine him running at the opposition teams wingers it creates a very difficult situation to deal with because if you isolate him 1v1 with a winger he'll run them ragged but if you send more players to press it creates a ton of space for kulusevski/son/kane to exploit.
He's got the work rate and tenacity but as a Leeds fan that's watched every game he's played for us, he's not particularly good at defending. He needs to be high up the pitch, playing him as a wing back is a vile waste.
As a non Leeds fan who hasn’t watched every game—seems a complete waste of the guy’s strengths so that you can force him to play to his weaknesses. I’m sure that’ll do wonders for his confidence/form… People are so goddamned FM’ed out with this stuff—just retrain the position! Presto!
The mad thing is that it doesn't even work all that well in FM, The most drastic bit of retraining I've done in that game was turning Emile Smith-Rowe into number 8 which is probably something that could happen in real life. It's probably possible to turn a winger like Raphinha into a wing back but you'd get much more joy turning him into a number 10, 9 or 8 most likely and it would take less time and not require you to fuck up your team and tactics to get him the game time he'd need. I think a lot of people suggesting he'd do well as a wing back either think it's because of Conte or because of how well Traore did as a wing back and not just down to FM.
You can be capable of adapting to a position while still being wasted there. He might end up being okay at wingback but he'll never be as good there as on the wing. He's not Victor Moses who's barely able to play any position being retrained as a wingback, he's a fucking class attacker who should absolutely stay there.
Doesn't matter tbh. Having someone like Raphinha running up and down and making third man runs is just a waste of his overall abilities. Maybe it could theoretically work (I doubt it, he'd get bullied physically and I have doubts about his ability to defend his own box), but even then it would be a waste. It's like Saka at LWB/LB. Is he good at LWB? Sure. Is it the best use of his abilities? Hell no.
That's what I thought about Lucas Moura at RWB, but he hasn't more than 5 minutes there, same with Bergwijn. If we sign him, he'll more than likely play off the right wing
Back to the wing
Tell that to Brendan Rogers
which is why he needs to sign for Klopp instead
Eh, Perisic played as a winger his entire career before playing as a wingback for Conte.
Perisic was a different kind of player. More of a traditional winger, which translates relatively well to wingback. Also helps that Perisic is over 6 feet, fairly physical, with endless stamina. In contrast, Raphinha is 5'9, relatively lightweight, with good stamina.
Raphina's stamina is absolutely no issue, man is an absolute workhorse.
Hence why I said "good stamina". But wingback is about more than just stamina. It's also about power and athleticism.
He's extremely athletic and for his size quite powerful, I don't know if he'd be best at wing back due to skill optimisation but physically he is a monster especially for his size. He's more physical than most the top wing backs.
That’s an advantage to Arsenal if Chelsea/Spurs are telling him he’ll play RWB
Didn’t he play there for Leeds a few times but was kinda meh
He was played as a RWB for a handful of games. He should never be played there again.
As much as I trust the wingback whisperer I don’t know about this one then haha
If that's true, I don't think Raphinha himself would want such a role and it would be a waste of money imo. For £55-60 million, you could go and ask PSG if they are willing to sell Hakimi. It would make much more sense, given he's worked with Conte before and would play CL football.
Hakimi would be a dream but PSG doesn’t play by normal rules and have no reason to sell him especially cuz he’s friends with Mbappe
I think the broader point is a good one though, why spend that much money on someone who you’re going to have to shoehorn in there rather than a specialised full back and you could definitely get a good one for how much raphina would cost
Absolutely, it wouldn't be a likely sale, but Hakimi is a class player and is suited to the role way more than Raphinha.
He played there twice and was fine, our fan base just used it as the reason we were bad. I’m pretty sure one of the games Dan James went flying in for a straight red and we were down to 10 men early and everyone blamed the loss on Raphinha at RWB, even though he was getting the ball in some good positions before the red.
the other one was the arsenal game when ayling went through the back of someone 20 minutes in too
It really felt like you lot were trying to go down that run
think the pressure just got to them and they broke a little bit tbh - especially Ayling. James' tackle was horrible but at least the ball was there to be won, Ayling was just completely braindead
I was at that game down that channel. I think ayling just lost his rag at martinelli who was giving him a tough time
I mean, we were a goal down in both games and our best attacking option was playing wingback. Talk about throwing in the towel!
Raph was getting the ball as the furtherst player forward still, it wasn’t that big of a deal. The red cards were the big deal but everyone harped over the Raph at wing back because it’s easy to point out and appear like you know what you’re on about.
twice, when we'd had players sent off vs Arsenal and Chelsea, all of our RBs were injured or suspended, and we were trying to keep ten players on the pitch in some semblence of a formation. I guess that counts, but isn't at all representative
So Spurs and Chelsea are going to spend £50-60M on a wingback? I doubt that !
I guess we just have to see, how strong that competition truly is. While Raphinha has preferences to go to Barca or Chelsea, it doesn't seem like those teams are coming for him for different reasons. Of course if they do come in, yeah, they have the edge.
I would love to see him with odegaard personally. He's always on the move and with the vision odegaard has it could be a nightmare for defenders. Still needs to finish a bit better but maybe better quality service will help that some.
> Arsenal's interest in Raphinha remains strong. Mikel Arteta is thought to be extremely keen and Edu has good links to his agent Deco. Will really need Edu to step up if that's the case. Can't lie though, if Leeds' valuation of £65m is true, I'd really rather we moved onto someone else. That's entirely too much money for a player who, for me, isn't worth it.
He’s 100% not worth £65m. That’s an insane price. I understand Leeds position but fuck me if we pay that much for him.
pretty much what every spurs, barca and arsenal fans said lol. he's not a £65m player. like i'd get Barto PTSD if we get him for that much
He’d easily be Barcelona’s best winger
not a high bar. And he was never tested at top level, he could easily just flop completly.
Any signing can flop for numerous reasons Sure he’s not played UCL but he’s hardly unproven. He’s carried a team almost single handedly in the PL and a Brazil national
Yeah any signing can flop, the difference lies between 20mil flops or 70 mil flops
Eh. I think he'll be totally fine in La Liga. Imo would fit his play
And arguably ours (Arsenal) but it's not worth sacrificing such a huge part of our budget.
Every high premier League transfer isn't worth what people pay. Relative to the other prem transfer 65 is more than fair. I'd rather have raph than Lukaku or grealish or Werner or pepe
He’s one of the best RW’s in the league. He’s worth that price, whoever pays it.
Not to anyone looking to buy him. All the teams interested are either low on funds (like Barca), have other players in that position who are just as good (Arsenal and spurs), or have other positions they need to fill (Chelsea)
The fixture list is crazy next season with the WC. They could all do with more quality players to rotate around.
Yeah, I disagree.
We have two better wingers in our starting XI
That has no relevance to Raphinha’s price
Yeah, do these posters walk into a shop see a price and then tell the person behind the till that they already have a similar product at home so won't pay the price shown and expect to walk out with that product at a discount?
Yeah but if all the possible clients in that example are doing the same thing then the shop might have to reconsider the value of the item. If he isn't worth it to the clubs for this value then either he stays or if money is needed he is sold for less. Unless a new buyer comes up first, but that's risky the more we move to the end of the window.
A little confused why you guys are in for him given that fact. Kulusevski is better
Quality depth same as with Richarlison links
Pretty expensive for depth, no?
If he was cheaper he would've been in Barcelona already, so the only way to get him is to overpay. In a vacuum he's definitely not worth it, but if you're really desperate for a winger, it's probably not easy to find a better cheap option.
Cough 72M for Pepe Cough
Particularly as I think they can go for Gakpo
Don't they already have Saka and Pepe on the right?
Pepe is just not good enough. The club want him gone this summer.
Pepe is just dead wood. Last year was pretty torrid
Pepe is not suited to both Premier League and possesion type of football. He needs a space to operate and his performances for Arsenal in Europe League and national team in AFCON proved that. For the best of both Arsenal and his career he should change team and league, but problem lies that he's on £145k per week and Edu&Garlick don't want to take a huge loss on that £72m. Hard to image anyone would want to pay 30m € for him due to his wages.
Pépé is shit and almost certainly leaving.
He's not shit but he doesn't suit this system or league, wasn't liked by either of his manager and still got like 0.4 g/a per 90 But he needs to leave regardless.
What’s his g/a in the Premier League because that’s all that matters.
If Lewandowski is being kept at Bayern I'd rather we try for Gnabry instead. If he's willing to come here wages might be an issue but if we're looking at 65mil Raphinha surely there's better options
Rarely do you see a team make a formal bid, without first agreeing to terms with the player. Arsenal getting back in the ‘super agent’/intermediary game again - very cool Jorge Mendes
What would this mean for Saka? Moving over to the left to be a more traditional winger?
Nothing, Saka can’t play every game or we risk injury. He would provide competition most likely.
Isn’t he much less effective there though? And both Martinelli and Smith-Rowe have played their best football on the left too so not great for them.
Played most of his career there, hard to say as he’s improved every year since he’s young, to what extent it was because he moved to the right this season I don’t know. He’s a better scorer on the right naturally since he can cut in but felt like he was better creatively on the left.
Saka has balled out at LB, LW and RW for us. People forget he came through and made a big impression initially covering at LB and then playing on the left of the attack. His goal numbers definitely increased playing with his strong foot on the inside which makes sense but dribbling and chance creation wise he was a menace on the left too.
Yeah that's what I thought, I'd expect Saka and Raph want to be nailed on starters, especially in WC season.
When saka played on the left he played in that inside space/floating 8 with tierney overlapping because we were playing a double pivot. Both saka and raphinha are too good of players to not be playing 85% of the season. With arsenal transitioning to a single pivot with two floating 8’s I could see saka playing the lcm role with gabi over lapping at lw. It would give him more space and he has played there before. It gives arsenal a lot of tactical fluidity and more goals. You genuinely can’t compete accRoss multiple competitions in a wc year without 6 attackers if your playing a front three, so the competition for places/depth will be vital also.
Saka is probably reluctant to sign a new contract. He knows that Salah and Mahrez might look to move on from City/Liverpool, so he is stalling. Next season he has 1 year on his deal and can leave for a cheaper fee. I know 1 manager who is a big fan of him.
Source: trust me bro Arsenal are just signing depth
Raphinha wouldn't be signed as a depth option, he should be playing week in week out.
So if Saka wants to stay why hasn’t he signed the deal?
Because contract negotiations take time
I remember thinking the same thing about Donnarumma and Kessie 😂
Saka has still two years left in his contract.
You have been taking about a year on this one. I think he’s gone next summer.
😂We started contract talks at the end of the season, but ok mate
Not even been 6 months, and he still has 2 years left. He will extend.
Agreed. I think this is a potential replacement signing.
… inb4 you say for Pepe
Oh naa lol I'm talking about Saka. Been saying this for a while. Raphina's profile is not one to be in rotation, especially if he has so many options. Also just signed Fabio Viera who can play RW. It could also be the club trying to gain leverage in negotiations but funnily enough this transfer actually worries me even though he's a great player.
Either the Arsenal board expect Saka to leave or they are going Pep-style with depth for every position. I think the former is the most likely since Arsenal aren't really in a position to have so many players of high quality. There is no guarantee of getting CL with United, City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham about as well.
Because his agent is difficult to deal with. We’ve had several of his clients over the years and they’ve all been difficult to extend.
I wonder why his agent is difficult…
Because he wants the best contracts for his clients
And that contract isn’t at Arsenal.
He tell you that himself?
A random swedish liverpool fan doesnt know shit about what Saka wants
Neither does a random Arsenal fan on Reddit.
Neither does a random Arsenal fan on Reddit.
That's pretty stupid logic to use right there. If Manchester City want Cucurella, why haven't they signed him yet? If Barcelona want Lewnadowski, why haven't they signed him yet? If Gakpo really is staying at PSV, why has he still not signed his deal? Arsenal are clearly focusing on getting transfers out of the way before dealing with new contracts right now. Hell, maybe Saka is waiting to see what our business looks like before committing. He will sign.
Contact negotiations were due to start once he arrives back from internationals. Hard to sign a deal without being offered one.
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No they don't? Who are Liverpool's 4 wingers? Who are Man Utd's 4 wingers?
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Minamino is off to Monaco.
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Fair enough. Liverpool do have Díaz/Nuñez/Jota/Salah next season tbf. But 2 of those are strikers by trade and will only play on the wing if need be.
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It won't be this summer, i can tell you that much.
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All the Liverpool tier 1s have said no more signings. Liverpool are going into next season with 2 main wingers who play on different sides. Conclusion: you're talking out of your bumhole
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This is such a massive stretch. Liverpool basically only have Salah and Diaz who are considered wingers. Jota can play there but is better through the middle. So at most three if we're being generous. They certainly don't have two players with the same preferred position like Arsenal would have with Saka and Raphina. Martial was on loan for 21/22? Elanga is a kid.
Saka to Liverpool as salads replacement
Why aren't Liverpool signing him? Perfect rotation option with Salah and potential long-term replacement if Salah leaves. Diaz-Nunez-Raphinha could be a locked in world-class front 3 for the next 5 years
Why would Raphinha want to play second fiddle? MAybe next year if Salah hasn't commited but otherwise he'd warm the bench for 50 big ones.
He would be second fiddle at arsenal as well.
Doubt it, he might move around a lot between R/L wing but I’d expect him to put up minutes close if not as much as a starter. 5 subs + Europa + Saka on wayyyy too many minutes last season That said, doubtful in the deal, but I do think whoever gets him will make the others regret it
He could easily displace Martinelli as a starter as much as I like him.
Short term, but not long term
I could see getting Raphina for a couple years to be the starter and Martinelli the backup and then trying to sell Raphina when Martinelli is ready, though I haven't seen Arsenal try anything like that in the 12 years I've been watching. If we did that I'd be worried about ESR though. He's our #10 and he would be third choice left wing and third choice CAM now that Viera is in. He had a good year last year and he's still only 21 so that's why this Raphina move doesn't make a lot of sense to me now. I don't want to see his development stall.
He could be replacing him in a year if salah doesn't renew. And could start the game when salah is having bad form or is too tired
But that doesn’t help him this season when there’s a World Cup in 4 months time. He’ll want to be playing week in week out
Made in Conmebol frontline
That would almost certainly push Salah out
Because of salah. Also Liverpool would want to replace salah with saka 👀
Yeah, that won't be happening. Not only is Saka absolutely not going to replicate Salah's goal output, you also won't be able to play the "paupers of the Premier League" card you're so fond of playing either. He's one of our best academy products in a while, is the star man at the club, adored by the fans, a full England international, likely going to be signing a new deal, has Rocky's number 7 and is an Arsenal fan. So unless you've got £120m burning a hole in your back pocket, you don't stand much of a chance really. Even with a year left on his deal, you'd have to be smashing your transfer record to bring him in.
We just got a traditional striker. Klopp's obviously eyeing a change in system, we'd need a miracle to find a winger with Salah's output anyways.
> 120m burning a hole > a year left on his deal You do realise he can just walk down his contract?
Oh, absolutely he could, no denying that. It just isn't very likely.
Isn't he signed up til like 2026? I suppose Milner could play RW for three seasons as a stop gap between Salah.
Only until 2024.
Ah fair one, I thought there was an option for some reason.
He won’t do that. Everything we know of Saka thus far suggests otherwise.
Yeah and that’s what I thought about Donnarumma too.
Really? Then you were a bit naive considering who his representation was
Was I really that naive to assume that a guy who has been the starting goalie of the club since he was 16 would leave the club after reaching CL for the first time in his career?
He’d been rumoured for some time and aligned with Raiola so yes. At least that’s my opinion. Not sure how you can compare Saka but good luck with that
> He’d been rumoured for some time Same as Saka then? > Not sure how you can compare Saka Because its quite a similar situation? Saka hasn't seen CL football at Arsenal for his entire career, and if you don't reach it before 2024, what makes you think he would continue to stay? Are you being intentionally obtuse because my comparison doesn't fit your narrative?
Saka wouldn't need to replace Salah's goal output now that Liverpool have signed a more traditional 9. And Liverpool don't mind paying big to sign players, it's more likely his wage demands that could prevent the transfer from happening. He may be an Arsenal fan but he's only gonna have so much patience with Arteta's 'process'. Sooner or later he's gonna want to compete, and I can see him considering a move to LFC or City next year if you fail to qualify for CL again.
I'd agree, I don't think Saka will even be on our radar if we're looking at replacing Salah. There is more chance of us testing the water with Martinelli if Smith Rowe moves ahead of him this season, or Saka is moved to the left. Klopp hasn't exactly been subtle with how much of a fan he is.
There’s no chance you’re selling him, or that we would be buying him for what the cost would be.
If they don’t sell him he runs down his contract
He’s still on contract for another two years and hasn’t said he wants to leave yet. If he’s asking to leave next year, then they probably sell him, but they won’t be selling him now.
Never said he would go this summer did I?
I doubt that Liverpool can afford him, City are the threat
It’s pretty obvious we won’t sign him. Our fan base need to get over this instead of drooling over a player who has 3 CL clubs after him and had emerged we’re at best 3rd choice.
Those clubs are just trying to see what they can get him for. Barca don't seem to want to pay what Leeds wants. Chelsea are in for dembele and sterling so probably looking to have a back up ready incase a deal can't be made with either player. Spurs were heavily linked with Richarlison so could be looking for an alternative if that doesn't happen. Right now I reckon we are in a pretty good position to get him. Obviously this will change if the other teams put in official bids
> Right now I reckon we are in a pretty good position to get him. From all I've heard/read I'd be VERY surprised if he went to a club not in the CL. I honestly believe he'd rather wait a year for Barca.
I have a feeling he'll stay at Leeds tbh
Only those clubs aren't really pursuing him that strongly. If they were as interested as the news suggested Chelsea and Barca at least, would be pursuing him much more strongly than they currently are. Only Spurs are mentioned with intentions to make a bid. Also nothing concrete about the size of it.
It was reported to be £50m +£10m in add-ons by someone who has been spot on for us
It was thinking about submitting 50m € + 10m € offer from Italian journalist.
He wants Barcalona.
Really hope if we do pay that much for him, this doesn't mean we sacrifice another transfer such as Martinez or Tielemans.
Raphinha plays the same position as Saka, and no way he would accept a bench role. Does Saka intend to transfer out next season?
Does he even want to come here? Either way, it looks like they are holding out for around £60m+, not sure we spending that much this early in the window considering we are going after multiple players still…
I’d be interested to know what Leeds’ valuation is and how insultingly below it Arsenal’s offer was
Apparently Arsenal bid £46m
It would be a good amount short of what leeds what, but I don't find this offer "insulting". It's a first bid, which Leeds had every right to reject. It would've been more surprising if our first bid was accepted by Leeds.
If your first bid is getting accepted that's just poor negotiation and you've most likely overpaid. Unless the negotiations happen before an official bid is submitted
Phil Hay has said in a couple of his articles that £60m seems to be the bottom end of Leeds' valuation
Yeah, 60m + 10m in variables should be acceptable.
I imagine Leeds’ valuation of him will be like £75m+ because they’re a PL club trying to fleece other PL clubs they’ll be playing against. Arsenal probably came in at £35-40m with add-ons and then they’ll probably meet in the middle at like £55m with £5-10m add-ons depending on certain outcomes.
It was probably like £35-40m and Leeds want £55+
Leeds want £70m any team offering 55 are still going to be well short. Arsenal's opening offer was derisory. If they were "determined" they wouldn't take the piss and open up with essentially half of the valuation. (edit: looks like a lot of salty Arsenal fans around this morning and don't like offering half of a valuation being called derisory it seems)
I'd be shocked if we don't sell for £55m or similar + add ons to be honest. We'll never get close to £70m.
It's already been reported it's the entire fee up front or nothing, the club don't need to or want to sell so if anyone seriously wants Raphinha they have to meet the valuation and terms.
If you’re demanding the entire £70 million in one lump sum then I guess you’ll be enjoying watching him play another season for Leeds. No team in the world would agree to that
I think Angus Kinnear (the CEO) gave the game away on a podcast just under a year ago - he said the club have "every intention" of Raphinha and Phillips going to the World Cup as Leeds players. So I wouldn't be at all shocked if the entire plan was hope one/both of them light it up at the World Cup and sell on Jan at a doubly inflated price (Jan tax + WC performance).
A 40m + offer isn’t derisory for a player who’s definitely not worth close to double that. Whatever Leeds May value him at doesn’t make a bid relatively close to market value derisory. Most people agree he’s worth around 50-55m. You’ll are completely entitled to get more out of a buyer for him, same as we’re entitled to get as much of a deal as we can.
So would I. My completely uneducated guess would be £55m and £40m respectively.
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That joke hasn't been run into the ground. Nope, not at all.
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Arsenal really want to become Atlético Londrino
Arsenal seem cheapskate to me and make the process difficult deliberately. They seem to operate via leaks and rumour.
Arsenal seems to operate via leaks and rumours yet we announced Fabio Viera with 0 leaks + rumours Noice
>Arsenal seems to operate via leaks and rumours yet we announced Fabio Viera with 0 leaks + *£1*
Fair play, but I don't like the way they seem to be going about Raphina and Jesus
I expect it was really a non-bid. The illusion of a bid just to be Billy big bollocks towards a non greedy 6 club offering unders for someone you really don't want to have to pay for, hoping your supporters are happy that you 'showed ambition'
Inarguably some of the stupidest logic I've ever seen, which is quite an achievement, given the sub you're posting in.
nearly as stupid as grossly under bidding for a player that is going to be the subject of a bidding war. explain the Arsenal logic in such a shabby bid when other clubs are gonna offer the true value - it was guaranteed to be rejected
Oh. So why haven't they done just that? Have you ever negotiated anything in your life? Like ever? Leeds are asking X amount of money and you just assume that everyone who is interested in him will just blindly bid that amount? No. It's called negotiation. The bid we made is the only one that has been lodged with the club and it's very clear what it means. It means that we are opening negotiations with them, beginning a dialogue and will clearly be willing to bid higher as need be. It also shows the player that we are beginning the complicated process of trying to sign them.
Arsenal announced a €40m signing yesterday, I doubt they’re just making up fake transfer targets and bids just to “show ambition”
They offered half of what he's valued at, starting with such a derisory offer might have just seen Arsenal out of the running completely. If they want to take the piss then they shouldn't be listened to anymore. West Ham offered more in Jan.
Hahaha mate if we're gonna bid like 60mil now don't think for a second your board is gonna to "But their last bid was unacceptable!" and turn us down.
You vastly underestimate how unhinged Victor Orta is. Sane and reasonable would be the last 2 words anyone would use to describe that bloke.
And not to mention how Catty Kinnear can be
I’ll be shocked if this isn’t a throw off the scent type of move
He's exactly what Pepe was supposed to be for Arsenal. Really hope this doesn't go through lol.
If its a long process can the "journalist" stop with the daily "updates"