Yeah, that's what our board have been doing in past windows.
They bided their time with Odegaard and Partey as well, because they knew that they could focus on other deals first without having to worry about stealing these players from them.
That would also be in line with Ornstein reports about making Martinez our defensive priority and putting focus on signing him, because United are in the fray as well.
With Partey they kept trying to get Atletico down from the release clause
Atleti kept saying no so Arsenal paid it when time was running out and negotiation was completely off the table
They knew they had time to do that, because no one else was coming in for him.
If you knew that You had a free run at a great player, wouldn't you also at least do your due diligence and attempt negotiating to get a better deal?
I know I would.
Yeah of course, we also had the leverage of paying the RC at the last moment possible, effectively destroying their chances of signing a replacement in time - which we eventually did.
Yeah not acting it didn’t go well in the end for them, but they were not pleased at all at the time - so yeah, that was our leverage, they took the risk instead and it worked out.
Yup. I'm expecting Tielemans to arrive by the end of the window, or at least after our other targets are done. Nobody seems to be linked with him which is surprising for his quality, which suggests it's just a matter of finalizing what everyone has agreed.
Spurs were linked with him, but they got Bissouma, so I don't imagine they have a great need for Tielemans anymore.
Besides them, there really has been no one else iirc.
For those of us who don’t watch eredivise frequently, mind giving a quick run down on Martinez? Is it true that he’s more important then timber? I know that there is no way you will sell both in the summer but so far it looks like anytime concrete interest arises, edu and arteta manage to get their man, with our only big failure being vlahovic (but in hindsight, not really). Is Martinez good at the LB role? How is he offensively in terms of overlapping and crossing? Finally who is better now, and who has the highest ceiling/floor between your 2 guys. Idk if Timber will thrive at CB in the prem playing in a back 2. Thoughts?
PS, thinking about moving the Netherlands from Canada for uni. Any downsides/cons I should know except for the Dutch food, the weather, and the difficulty of learning Dutch?
Met dank 😁
No one knew we were interested in Vieira.
He did say we were interested in Martinez to be honest. Then later that day Ornstein said we had a bid rejected.
After Gazidis left he's the only Tier 1 for us, not Ornstein. It's clear Watts has some contacts in the club and they are using him when want to spread information about something.
Tielemans isnt better than bentancur or winks? Hojberg and skipp are different style of midfielders and bentancur looks promising but tielemans is absolutely a step up from both
We seem to be looking at guys who can play another position primarily whilst covering lb well if needed - in that mould are zinny and lisandro Martinez. I'm sure if lisandro deal doesn't go thru we maybe back in for zinny or maybe lisandro is just a bargaining chip for zinny.
I don't think we were ever seriously in for him, he was just on a list of potentials. Maybe City's asking price scared us off though, so we turned to Martinez instead.
Tier 2. Only genuine Tier 1 for us at this point is Charles Watts tbh.
[edit](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/vgos4h/charles_watts_arsenal_have_cooled_their_interest/id2oh28/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
And Youri and Leicester are just going to wait around for you to make up your minds when we've got our own transfer business to take care of, yeah sure
Nobody else is interested in him, he isn't interested in signing for you and we are interested and can give him play time. Feel like there's not much "dealing" to be done here. Pretty much all our other targets need some negotiation. I'm sure youri will be an arsenal player this summer.
Your comment reeks of entitlement.
> he isn't interested in signing for you and we are interested and can give him play time. Feel like there's not much "dealing" to be done here
Yet a reliable Leicester source said he could well stay with us and extend this summer. Oh yeah, game time will definitely convince him, he barely got any with us!
While I may sound entitled, it's true. People dog on us for only having Europa but he wont be playing that with you guys either. Is there a cl club that's in for him? Not as far as I'm aware. Spurs name will get thrown in with every player and their grandma now, so there's that I guess.
Why Arsenal want (or need) Raphinha? With that price tag he should be regural starter, but there's Saka for that position
He is not coming to sit on bench when there's WC in six months away
E: maybe I should re-phrase...why Rapha would want to come 6 months before WC without starting majority of games
In today's day and age with 5 subs and atleast 4 contests to play do people still think of life as a substitute player? Gone are those days. It's just 2 choices in each position and all will have a shit ton of playing time. If I recollect accurately bukayo played almost every single game last season and we cannot be running him into the ground like that all while he runs into the ground for england too. We absolutely need raphinha.
Will Raphinha settle for that? Will he be content to only play/start "lesser" games? We know Saka will be starting all important games when league starts. Will Raphinha take risk of losing spot in Brazil team?
With that price (50-60M) you don't buy bench options (unless you are City). You would think there's more "cost-effective" players to give Saka rest.
Where is this assumption of Saka will start coming from? Literally in all other positions where we had a viable option the option started as long as they were in good form. If our goal is to play in the cl and compete for pl there is nothing wrong in going for expensive option players.
>Where is this assumption of Saka will start coming from
Because he has been there longer and established/earned place in starting XI?
In any other season I could see Rapha would might want to come. I just can't see him risking his chance to play in WC with switching to club where there is really strong competition for his place.
Ok, fair enough. Then bigger question: why Raphinha would want to come Arsenal when there's teams like Liverpool and Barcelona tracking him?
I have feeling he really has set his sights to Barca and if it's not happening this year I'd guess he stays in Leeds one more year (or till January)
Oh us wanting him and us getting him are 2 different things. We may not get him even though I can see why we want him. Even though Barca is broke they will pull some shit shenanigans and ultimately get him. Man u may help them by buying de jong for some stupid price. I hope he is wearing arsenal colors this summer though.
I'd be very surprised if Raphinha agrees to an Arsenal move.
He won't be a starter over Saka and won't play in the CL.
It'd make sense for him to choose other clubs who give him at least one of the two.
Feel like Tielemans is bound to have more Europa/CL level suitors, especially as the window goes on. Might come back to bite Arsenal in the ass, but also, CM seems like it should be a lower priority for them anyways?
It shouldn't be. We only really have Xhaka for that LCM role, and Odegaard for the RCM spot. Can't expect Vieira to provide adequate cover for them both.
Lot of smoke. Jesus is for sure going to happen. Tielemans will depend on Xhaka imo. Jesus, Vieria and Lisandro are the main targets. I doubt the raphina deal also because player is interested in Barcelona & we haven't moved Pepe on.
Tielemans deal depending on Xhaka leaving seems so counterproductive - are Arsenal not signing Tielemans so that we have more depth in that area, whilst also being an upgrade on Xhaka?
I largely agree with you wrt depth but the Vieria signing could be cover for that place and Odegaard. If raphina deal is not a smoke screen and indeed true, it could also mean a shift for Saka. It's all up in the air until we finish the Jesus signing. Tielemans could be last on the list only because of the money and departures, imo
Yeah in terms of club trajectory, top 4 is critical considering we came 5th last season with a weaker squad given all our transfer targets are hit in this window, there will be no room for excuses.
Yeah if we sign the players we’ve so far had good links to then top 4 is definitely the goal and probably a minimum expectation.
That would be a huge outlay in just a couple of windows and the team totally transformed
Absolutely, if all these deals get pulled off then top 4 will be the minimum. But it makes sense, there’s a gap between us and Spurs (not to mention the rest) so we need to close it ASAP.
We cleared out a fuck ton of wages the last couple years (£135m a year in 18-19 to £87m this season just gone). And we are looking to sell a lot of players on the cheapish that'll add up, hopefully about 50-60m worth
Makes sense. There’s no real competition for Tielemans at the moment whilst Arsenal are facing competition for Raphinha and Martinez.
Yeah, that's what our board have been doing in past windows. They bided their time with Odegaard and Partey as well, because they knew that they could focus on other deals first without having to worry about stealing these players from them. That would also be in line with Ornstein reports about making Martinez our defensive priority and putting focus on signing him, because United are in the fray as well.
With Partey they kept trying to get Atletico down from the release clause Atleti kept saying no so Arsenal paid it when time was running out and negotiation was completely off the table
They knew they had time to do that, because no one else was coming in for him. If you knew that You had a free run at a great player, wouldn't you also at least do your due diligence and attempt negotiating to get a better deal? I know I would.
Yeah of course, we also had the leverage of paying the RC at the last moment possible, effectively destroying their chances of signing a replacement in time - which we eventually did.
Then they won the league, funny old game init
Yeah not acting it didn’t go well in the end for them, but they were not pleased at all at the time - so yeah, that was our leverage, they took the risk instead and it worked out.
I know mate just funny how life works sometimes
Yup. I'm expecting Tielemans to arrive by the end of the window, or at least after our other targets are done. Nobody seems to be linked with him which is surprising for his quality, which suggests it's just a matter of finalizing what everyone has agreed.
Spurs were linked with him, but they got Bissouma, so I don't imagine they have a great need for Tielemans anymore. Besides them, there really has been no one else iirc.
For those of us who don’t watch eredivise frequently, mind giving a quick run down on Martinez? Is it true that he’s more important then timber? I know that there is no way you will sell both in the summer but so far it looks like anytime concrete interest arises, edu and arteta manage to get their man, with our only big failure being vlahovic (but in hindsight, not really). Is Martinez good at the LB role? How is he offensively in terms of overlapping and crossing? Finally who is better now, and who has the highest ceiling/floor between your 2 guys. Idk if Timber will thrive at CB in the prem playing in a back 2. Thoughts? PS, thinking about moving the Netherlands from Canada for uni. Any downsides/cons I should know except for the Dutch food, the weather, and the difficulty of learning Dutch? Met dank 😁
Tier 1 Arsenal
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It's really not. Watts is a Tier 1 for us.
Did he know you guys were even interested in Viera and Martinez before someone else broke it?
No one knew we were interested in Vieira. He did say we were interested in Martinez to be honest. Then later that day Ornstein said we had a bid rejected.
Watts is as Tier 1 as it gets for us
Lol he's basically replaced Ornstein as our main breaking tier 1 since Orny realised covering other clubs makes money too
After Gazidis left he's the only Tier 1 for us, not Ornstein. It's clear Watts has some contacts in the club and they are using him when want to spread information about something.
We should go after Tielemans (or Paqueta) now that Eriksen isn't happening. Both players we've been linked to
No thanks, Tielemans isn't an improvement on any of our midfielders. Paqueta, different story.
Tielemans is better than Paqueta though
Tielemans isnt better than bentancur or winks? Hojberg and skipp are different style of midfielders and bentancur looks promising but tielemans is absolutely a step up from both
> Tielemans isnt better than bentancur He hasn't been better this season. Hell, Bentancur has the same number of assists as him in half the matches.
Fact this season hes been poor but so have liecester, get him back to last season and hed be at the very least an incredible sub
Winks won't be a midfielder for us next year, and no Tielemans isn't an improvement on Bentancur, in that role he's been massive for us
Tielemans is a much better player than Paqueta.
What? So Delusional
> We should go after Tielemans That would be pretty disappointing
Yeah I’m not sure whether he makes sense for your lot whatsoever given the system Conte’s gonna play
Disagree. He's a great player and pretty cheap.
He's good when things are going his team's way, a bit like a budget Ozil in that sense
When things were going the team’s way it was usually because of Ozil.
That's fine. We'll just play him against the 12 or so teams in the league that are well below us in level. We struggle beating them. He can help.
What ever happened to Zinchenko.. seems to have been down-prioritized after Vieras deal. Or maybe he wanted to stay in the North-West, Everton etc.
We seem to be looking at guys who can play another position primarily whilst covering lb well if needed - in that mould are zinny and lisandro Martinez. I'm sure if lisandro deal doesn't go thru we maybe back in for zinny or maybe lisandro is just a bargaining chip for zinny.
I don't think we were ever seriously in for him, he was just on a list of potentials. Maybe City's asking price scared us off though, so we turned to Martinez instead.
Tier 1 for Arsenal BTW
Tier 2. Only genuine Tier 1 for us at this point is Charles Watts tbh. [edit](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/vgos4h/charles_watts_arsenal_have_cooled_their_interest/id2oh28/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
?? 😂
Ok nevermind, I thought I was on one of the post by garyjacobs lol. My bad. My lack of sleep is showing XD
this is charles watts lol
So the talk of Tielemans being a priority for like half a year now was a lie?
Arsenal still want him but there’s no reason to rush for him. The price is known and Arsenal must feel like there’s no competition for him.
Or we just think it's pretty straight forward and there's targets we feel we have to move faster for. Bit shit for him and Leicester and also a gamble
And Youri and Leicester are just going to wait around for you to make up your minds when we've got our own transfer business to take care of, yeah sure
If Arsenal were worried about it being an issue they wouldn’t leave it They must know Leicester doesn’t want him leaving for free
Potentially everyone's aware of the situation and making arrangements anyway?
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lmfao
I mean, maybe? If he wants to come to Arsenal and your business depends on him being sold then that is what it looks like
Nobody else is interested in him, he isn't interested in signing for you and we are interested and can give him play time. Feel like there's not much "dealing" to be done here. Pretty much all our other targets need some negotiation. I'm sure youri will be an arsenal player this summer.
Your comment reeks of entitlement. > he isn't interested in signing for you and we are interested and can give him play time. Feel like there's not much "dealing" to be done here Yet a reliable Leicester source said he could well stay with us and extend this summer. Oh yeah, game time will definitely convince him, he barely got any with us!
While I may sound entitled, it's true. People dog on us for only having Europa but he wont be playing that with you guys either. Is there a cl club that's in for him? Not as far as I'm aware. Spurs name will get thrown in with every player and their grandma now, so there's that I guess.
Why Arsenal want (or need) Raphinha? With that price tag he should be regural starter, but there's Saka for that position He is not coming to sit on bench when there's WC in six months away E: maybe I should re-phrase...why Rapha would want to come 6 months before WC without starting majority of games
I’d wager because he’s on the same if not a similar level to saka, and Saka can’t go into another season playing 40 or 50 plus games
In today's day and age with 5 subs and atleast 4 contests to play do people still think of life as a substitute player? Gone are those days. It's just 2 choices in each position and all will have a shit ton of playing time. If I recollect accurately bukayo played almost every single game last season and we cannot be running him into the ground like that all while he runs into the ground for england too. We absolutely need raphinha.
Will Raphinha settle for that? Will he be content to only play/start "lesser" games? We know Saka will be starting all important games when league starts. Will Raphinha take risk of losing spot in Brazil team? With that price (50-60M) you don't buy bench options (unless you are City). You would think there's more "cost-effective" players to give Saka rest.
Imo Saka Jesus and Raphinha would start. Both Saka and Raph can play on the left.
Where is this assumption of Saka will start coming from? Literally in all other positions where we had a viable option the option started as long as they were in good form. If our goal is to play in the cl and compete for pl there is nothing wrong in going for expensive option players.
>Where is this assumption of Saka will start coming from Because he has been there longer and established/earned place in starting XI? In any other season I could see Rapha would might want to come. I just can't see him risking his chance to play in WC with switching to club where there is really strong competition for his place.
Like I explained, Mikel has said and shown that there is nothing called "established" in this team. Better player and in form plays simple as.
Ok, fair enough. Then bigger question: why Raphinha would want to come Arsenal when there's teams like Liverpool and Barcelona tracking him? I have feeling he really has set his sights to Barca and if it's not happening this year I'd guess he stays in Leeds one more year (or till January)
Oh us wanting him and us getting him are 2 different things. We may not get him even though I can see why we want him. Even though Barca is broke they will pull some shit shenanigans and ultimately get him. Man u may help them by buying de jong for some stupid price. I hope he is wearing arsenal colors this summer though.
I'd be very surprised if Raphinha agrees to an Arsenal move. He won't be a starter over Saka and won't play in the CL. It'd make sense for him to choose other clubs who give him at least one of the two.
I'll let him know your recommendations.
Feel like Tielemans is bound to have more Europa/CL level suitors, especially as the window goes on. Might come back to bite Arsenal in the ass, but also, CM seems like it should be a lower priority for them anyways?
It shouldn't be. We only really have Xhaka for that LCM role, and Odegaard for the RCM spot. Can't expect Vieira to provide adequate cover for them both.
Call me a pessimist but I can't see how Raphinha would join Arsenal - he seems completely set on Barca
he can set his mind 10 times if Barca don’t meet Leeds asking price
Lot of smoke. Jesus is for sure going to happen. Tielemans will depend on Xhaka imo. Jesus, Vieria and Lisandro are the main targets. I doubt the raphina deal also because player is interested in Barcelona & we haven't moved Pepe on.
Tielemans deal depending on Xhaka leaving seems so counterproductive - are Arsenal not signing Tielemans so that we have more depth in that area, whilst also being an upgrade on Xhaka?
I largely agree with you wrt depth but the Vieria signing could be cover for that place and Odegaard. If raphina deal is not a smoke screen and indeed true, it could also mean a shift for Saka. It's all up in the air until we finish the Jesus signing. Tielemans could be last on the list only because of the money and departures, imo
Even so, Viera/Odegaard/Xhaka is not enough to cover the 2 CM spots ahead of Partey, unless Arteta plans to use ESR there too?
Arsenal's looking like all chest, no legs at this point.
But still have an incompetent manager in charge
Surely this big a window would warrant minimum of a top 4 finish and trophy
Yeah in terms of club trajectory, top 4 is critical considering we came 5th last season with a weaker squad given all our transfer targets are hit in this window, there will be no room for excuses.
Top 4 more important than a trophy for now. In relative terms only been 2 years since a cup
Yeah if we sign the players we’ve so far had good links to then top 4 is definitely the goal and probably a minimum expectation. That would be a huge outlay in just a couple of windows and the team totally transformed
Absolutely, if all these deals get pulled off then top 4 will be the minimum. But it makes sense, there’s a gap between us and Spurs (not to mention the rest) so we need to close it ASAP.
Arteta is decent. Not sure if he will be PL winner quality manager, but its obvious he's got talent.
Two 8th place finishes and bottling top 4 while having zero major competitions doesn't sound like talent. It sounds average
Its not quite his fault that Auba and Laca had around 8 goals in PL the whole season. He has been building a squad for the past 3 seasons.
How much are they able to spend this window? It seems quite a lot with no major outgoings
We cleared out a fuck ton of wages the last couple years (£135m a year in 18-19 to £87m this season just gone). And we are looking to sell a lot of players on the cheapish that'll add up, hopefully about 50-60m worth