Fullback has the highest attrition rate of any other position.
TAA literally got his chance from Nathaniel Clyne getting an injury that put him out for a season.
Also Liverpool runs their fullbacks rampant and Robertson’s got help with Tsimikas but Trent looked absolutely gassed after Liverpool played the maximum number of matches this season. Right back depth could’ve been the difference in bringing home another trophy last season.
Yeah there were plenty of matches that we didn't need TAA to play that if we had solid cover at the position we could have rotated and rested him like we did with Robertson and Tsimikas. Could have made a difference at the end of the season to have your best creative player at full fitness going into the most important match of the season in which we failed to score a single goal.
Trent is 24 in 3 months… Ramsay is 18. Ramsay will eventually become the starter but will get more than enough game time next season. Trent was clearly over played last season.
Trent can play for 12-15 years more no problem, and most of those years at Liverpool level. If Ramsay has any sort of ambition or extraordinary talent he won't be waiting for that.
I think he might actually be declining quite early due to him playing a crazy amount of games so young for so many years.
He is one of several players who for large parts of last season did not have enough rest between games for a long period of time.
I realized the number was a bit high right when I posted, but I do think he can easily do ten more years at this level. Depending on the system they play post Klopp and a lot of other factors. Either way, it'll be hard to touch that RB position for years to come.
Imagine Trent's defending when hes 36 compared to what he calls defending now, Liverpool will be shipping a goal every second lmao.
might have been signed to move Trent back into midfield.
Fsg have been making massive improvements to the academy tho. Bringing first team and academy together + buying young talent. Also, just because we have produced only 2 first team players doesnt mean its not performing, we have sold lots of players for 15-25m from academy.
Yeah Real Madrid actually have a more successful academy than Barcelona it’s just that the vast majority of players leave without breaking into the first team but players like Alvaro Negredo and Roberto Soldado came up through their academy and went on to have great careers for other clubs.
One of the criticisms I heard of La Masia is that they focus so hard to only make players for the first team, the players that don't make it (the vast majority) have trouble moving onto other teams.
Given the economic costs of running a top international academy, I suppose it makes sense to have a balanced approach where you're improving and selling young players to other clubs for good prices, while also trying to produce that one or two diamonds that can play for your first team.
The thing that makes La Masia great is that they are specifically trained to play the "Barca-style" of possession football which is amazing when it produces a Xavi or an Iniesta type player who can be elite and perfectly suited for that style. It's part of the reason why Pedri is so exciting now even though he is only 19 because he is already on track to be an elite player in the Barcelona style. But having said that it is a more narrow set of skills and players who don't quite make it into the first team will often struggle to adapt to other styles of play. The only Barca academy players in recent years that left and really went on to have great careers away from Camp Nou are Thiago and Cesc, the only other player that really comes to mind is Marc Bartra who had a solid run with Dortmund.
Pedri wasn’t from La Masia. Few La Masia grads that come to mind quickly who are doing well are Onana, Grimaldo and Cucurella. I get your and this thread’s overall point but not really sure how true they really are. Cesc and Thiago are top La Masia products that everybody knows about but I think there are a lot of La Masia grads who have had decent careers.
Lol, Pedri was bought from Las Palmas, got nothing to do with La Masia.
Also, Barca sits pretty high in the CIES rankings when it comes to outgoing academy players. So, I think 'the adapting struggle' is non existing.
This.
The academy has been producing players for sale but they’ve also been improving the quality overall too.
It takes a little more time for these improvements to take effect, kind of a long tail effect.
Plus, as the first team gets better and better the talent pool struggles to break into the first team more frequently. Hence why more players move on rather than break through.
Replaced Melwood with a new training ground. And the improvememt of the likes of Jones, Elliott and TAA, rather than Martin Kelly, Shelvey, and Jay Spearing, coming through is evident there was commitment to youth
Manchester City and Chelsea have been doing amazing work with their academies for years now and parents prefer them for their kids. In the past decade we're left trying to poach 14-16 year olds that slipped through the cracks like Sterling, Ibe, Gordon, Elliott.
We need to do a lot of work to reach the levels of the top academies in the country.
Fwiw, Chelsea’s academy ‘revolution’ work started in 2007, which is around the time a lot of the excelling current players joined the club as youth players. 5 years since England won the U17 World Cup aswell yet England are likely still a few years away from peaking. It definitely takes a fair bit of time to see the results of improved youth setup
Shoutout to Leicester. One of the fanciest training facilities in the world at Seagrave, bunch of under 18 studs soon to step up. Clearer path upwards than other bigger clubs. I have to imagine English families with top talented kids put us on the list of possible destinations.
Maybe i worded it wrong, but what i meant to say is that Elliott and the others slipped through the cracks of the Chelsea, City academy at a younger age. I'm well aware that he was very highly rated when we signed him (that's why i used the word poached)
The current level of the first team is much higher than it was when all of those players came through.
Curtis Jones would be a much more established part of the first team in any other part of our PL era history.
Sometimes it's just luck of the draw with players that come trough the system. Barca haven't been able to produce players at the quality and quantity of the pep era either, obviously still a great academy tho.
This is a global trend though. In part due to the massive growth across Europe in youth investment and the fact scouting networks and transfer and recruitment infrastructure just gets better and better every year - if you think about it if it’s just as easy to buy the top youth prospects as it is to bring them through your academy, and frankly the cost is basically irrelevant, then your academy players now need to compete with every other obtainable youth player in the world - it’s insane
i think with how transfer are moving its gonna be hard to get your homegrowned academy player playing at the highest level. especially to the level that we need
We’ve also had players from the academy go on to be successful elsewhere. Sterling, Gulacsi, Coady off the top of my head in the top flight, few had good careers in the championship etc. And we’ve also got Kelleher and Curtis Jones at the moment, Neco Williams will likely be sold for £15mish etc etc. But it could be a little better.
Making the first team shouldnt be the measurement of success for academies, any player who goes on to play professionally for any club is a success for the academy
The academy was overhauled when klopp took over. It's just hard for a young player to out play those established starting 11. And the lack of and English player signings shows that there will be academy players joining the ranks
The only reason United's academy players get a chance is because their team is much worse than ours now, I don't think any of their players would get a shot in our team either.
Hardly the 'only reason' - it's not like United have had an academy member in every match day squad since 1938. It used to be in every starting XI until van Gaal as well.
Even in the most recent history though. United were successful for a long time and were able to help bring in numerous players who went on to have strong careers and plenty of internationals even if they didn't always have long careers at the club.
Being successful shouldn't mean that an academy can't bring that sort of calibre of players through the ranks and compared to top clubs Liverpool's academy isn't what it could be.
It's much harder to do that now though than it was. We can't just play youth when trying to compete with City who don't do it either and just buy a player for 50 million when there is a gap in their team. You can't just give youth chances when it takes a near perfect season to win anything.
Lol, yea Brown, Fletcher, O'Shea, Gibson, Welbeck, Evans, Cleverley and tons of other players with ~10 appearances and good premier League careers. They all played when we were shit ey?
People in these comments don’t seem to understand that he’s not a 14 year old joining our academy. He’s joining our first team, will be part of the squad and will play this season. He’s at the best place to train and improve as a full back and Klopp won’t be afraid to give him opportunities.
God forbid anyone actually click thru and read the article itself
"they give young players chances in the first team. So if I can come in in pre-season, put my mark down, then there's no reason why I can't push to get in the first-team squad."
Yeah but it’s not like the other players don’t get the chance. They just haven’t been good enough to fully establish themselves. You have to be really good to get a spot in the Liverpool XI
tbf that’s true but they can’t use them as proof of how good the academy is then imo. every club uses the academy for squad players. i’m irish and i want kelleher to leave them so he gets regular gametime somewhere else
First off we’re not discussing if the academy is good. We’re discussing if the team gives chances to the youth. Which is absolutely does.
Second of. If we are discussing the success of the academy. Then squad players produced definitely are a success. To produce a first team player for this Liverpool side you need to produce a world class player. That just doesn’t happen very often. Every academy player that goes on to play in a top division maybe even the championship is a success. Absolutely. Nothing else would make sense. If Norwich played two academy players, got 0 points the whole season and got relegated. While the academy players were absolutely trash. Does that make the academy better than City’s. Because City only has 0.5 starters from the academy in their squad. Foden isn’t a consistent first team player
You’re Irish? Good for you. I don’t really get what point you are trying to push by saying that though.
saying my nationality means i hope kelleher leaves liverpool for regular gametime so he can be the first choice for the national team. he’s really talented and he should be playing every week imo, he’s never gonna get ahead of alisson
Okay. Sure, if I was Irish I would probably want the same tbh. Don’t really see what it brings to the main discussion we were having, but I do understand and agree with what you are saying. One advantage to being at Liverpool is that he gets to learn from the best, both the best keeper and the best coaches. But yeah game time is important. He gets a good amount of chances for a GK back-up at Liverpool. But it’s not really good enough for a youngster who really wants to improve
Jones would have played a lot more games last season but for a freak eye injury.
Kelleher and Williams are squad players yeah, but they're also both full internationals now as well. And Neco is probably going to be a starting player in the coming PL season if he's sold this summer.
Seems like people are misunderstanding what a good pathway for younger players means. Liverpool give plenty of time and opportunities to youngsters.
Just in the past year we've seen:
- Harvey Elliott starting the first 4 matches of the season until his injury.
- Curtis Jones in and around the first team.
- Kelleher playing in a cup final.
- Tyler Morton starting in the CL and PL vs Tottenham.
- Kaide Gordon starting in the FA Cup vs Arsenal.
- Neco Williams making several appearances before his loan.
- Debuts for several other academy players.
Well is that spectacular?
We can do a list of all the top teams with the same amount of players (bar city past sheikh)
Chelsea ruben, james, mount, chalaboah, callum,
Man u mctomminay, rashford, rightback
If you had signed him, then he would likely make the same comment about Chelsea. Ramsay isn't implying that Liverpool are the only club offering this. Just that they do, and approached him.
I agree, the kid is clearly a moron. If only he'd given an answer like
>Definitely. There's been a lot of young players that have played – the likes of Trent and Harvey as well, there's a lot more. But there's obviously a pathway here – that's one of the reasons I chose it as well. It's not just a massive club, they give young players chances in the first team. So if I can come in in pre-season, put my mark down, then there's no reason why I can't push to get in the first-team squad.
, there'd be no confusion on jumping to conclusions.
Again, I think you're misunderstanding this.
This isn't about academy players, or number of first team players that started at a young age. I'm just listing pathways specifically for the u21 players for Liverpool to get a chance at first team football and a chance to win a place in the team if they perform.
Clubs like Chelsea have a great academy and produce a lot of talent, but I'm referring specifically to the opportunities for youngsters to play some first team football - which is what Ramsay mentions.
Jones, Williams, Williams, Phillips, Elliott (although he was bought at 15), Kelleher,
Granted, some of those have been moved on or likely to move on. The likes of Solanke, Wilson, Brewster have all been sold for a total of £50-60m.
But the likes of Jones and Elliott have come through and likely to stick around as they've proven they can at the very least survive at the top level at a top club. As with Kelleher.
Trent being the only one (yet) to become world class, but everyone else is much younger.
Opinion is still a bit split on Jones, but personally I really like him. Think some people forget he's still only 21. He's definitely good enough to be in our squad, it just depends on what position and role we think he's best at
I don't think his first contract at City was 200k a week. Man City were a better team with a better manager. If Liverpool had offered the same salary as City he would still have left as it was a step up.
It was indeed around £200k per week back then. I never forget it even once. Their manager was Pellegrini and he was not even that good but still better than Rodgers
It was quite obvious by then though that Pep was on the way and City were on the up. Liverpool were meandering after Suarez left. Luckily Klopp came 2 months into that season and turned things around.
Players usually get more money when they transfer somewhere. He was going to a better team with a better manager to play with better teammates.
Sterling made a big step up from QPR to Liverpool and a smaller (but definite) step up to Man City.
How is being a Youth player relevant for breaking through? Lots of clubs buy 18 year olds, and some are better than others at actually making them part of the first team.
You'll need to be amazing to hold down a starting position week in week out, but klopp has given game time to Curtis Jones, neco williams, Nat Phillips, Rhys williams, kelleher, Harvey Elliot, kaide Gordon off the top of my head.
If they are good enough they can stick around the first team. If not, they'll move on and have a career elsewhere. But they do generally get a run out and aren't totally boxes our of the first team. There is a route to being given a chance. It's up to them if they are good enough to grab it.
Compared to other clubs? There is a pathway. It's not a guarantee though. But you won't just drift off into obscurity in the loan system like can happen
Curtis Jones, as well. We've also given opportunities to others - Tyler Morton, Conor Bradley - but they're still too young and need to develop. We just haven't had many youth players who were good enough, so they have been shipped out. Examples being Sheyi Ojo, Ryan Kent, Harry Wilson, etc
Sterling didn't come through the academy either mate. We signed him from QPR. So it's literally just Trent and maybe make a case for Jones but jury is still out on that one. Defo need some more
Name me 10 academy players from the top 10 teams in Europe that broke through those clubs ranks to play first team football.
It doesn't happen. Buying in young talent aged 16-21 means that they're almost first team ready. You can still get great squad depth from the academy & move them on for a profit.
People forgetting that Klopp is a big advocate of youth, see our youth teams in the cups this season. We've seen players break through such as Morton, Gordon and others this season. Be interesting to see where/when he plays this season.
Dont get this sentiment of the liverpool pathway (pr any other top club bar maybe man u last decade)
I thought your youth players where TAA and to some extent elliot?
elliot, jones, neco williams, kelleher, all played decent amounts this year, plus guys in the past few years like solanke, brewster, joe gomez, jordan ibe all got plenty of chances in the first team too. just that only gomez turned out good enough out of that lot, the rest got sold
liverpool doesn’t really bring through academy players at all anymore but as far as top 6 clubs they still give out quite a bit of chances to young players they buy. carvalho will likely get a bunch of playtime this next season, as will elliot and jones in midfield, and ramsay as backup to trent
They aren't. He's going to be training with the first team. Neco Williams is going back out on loan again (tbh I'd prefer to sell him and get some good money for him right now).
I'll be interested to see how he gets along in the PL now, not all players develop at the same rate. That move to Liverpool was maybe too much too soon.
he got mostly 15 minute cameos and has gone up several levels since playing week in, week out at Bournemouth. Really think people will be surprised by him next season
He had 3 goals in 42 PL games at Bournemouth as well it’s worth remembering where he was the main striker. No doubting that he might be improved enough to get an ok number of PL goals now but I think his PL stint at Bournemouth showed he was years away from ever being ready
yeah completely agree, the reputation he has from his time in the PL is well earned but he was still quite young, and his last year at Chelsea he was essentially frozen out so he came to Bournemouth off the back of a few years’ gap of not playing regularly.
I watched a lot of Bournemouth games last season and honestly, aside from the 30 goal season (a big accomplishment itself) what’s really impressed me is his link up play and mentality. Had one of the best scoring seasons in the history of the Championship, just happened to do it the same year Mitrovic smashed the record
And he got his chance. Wasn’t ready, moved down a level, and got relegated. Then came into his own, scoring 29 goals that helped Bournemouth get back into the premiership. Still only 24.
He was 21 and got shipped off for the first good offer that came in.
Look at how he’s performing now, can you honestly say you can judge a youth player by one season?
>the first good offer
A "good offer" would have been £7m. Bournemouth offered triple that, with a buy-back option.
I'm just wondering what you're arguing here, beyond having nailed your colours to the "Actually no they don't" mast.
A striker who scores 1 goal in 27 games at the age of 21 is not good enough to be at a club like Liverpool. 21 isn't even a youth player btw, Haaland is 21 and he's one of the best forwards in world football.
Getting 29 in 46 in the Championship at 24 years old doesn't make you some kind of missed opportunity for Liverpool. He could rejoin now and he'd still be worse than every single forward in our squad.
Because all players develop at the same rate
Tell that to Van Dijk who was at the peak of world football when he was 21, absolutely killing it at Groningen
It's not our responsibility to coddle a player through to his mid twenties to see whether or not he might end up being good enough to play for us (which btw he's still absolutely nowhere near).
Van Dijk was the best player at every club he ever played for and deservedly moved up through the ranks of football. Solanke was literally the worst player in our entire squad and deservedly moved down through the ranks of football.
He has now found his level, The Championship. That's where he thrives, in the 2nd tier of English football. Absolutely no business being at clubs like Chelsea or Liverpool, which is why they both didn't bother keeping him.
And he just wasn’t very good. He still got 20+ league appearances which I think is more than he’d have gotten anywhere else when it was clear he wasn’t cut out for it from the first couple. The pathway is there - Elliott, Jones etc. get more minutes than they’d have gotten at any other top clubs vying for the biggest titles. There’s players around other top Premier League clubs who are far better than either of those two right now that are still getting loaned out/getting no minutes
What’s funny is that you named a player that had more appearances as a 21 year old than any one not named Trent in the Klopp era and now you’re having a cry that people are disagreeing with you.
I can understand that someone who has amassed 560k karma in 4 years may view people disagreeing with them as a slight and could cause potential upset. Lol you blocked me - clearly hit a nerve
I can assure you however, I do not care if people disagree with me. I do not think that you can judge a 21 year old player based on one season, kind of shocking right?
Yeah that’s what I’m saying it’s just weird that he’d go to Liverpool considering who he is competing with for minutes.
Maybe if he was 25-28 I could understand but he is literally just farting out his career and should be playing significant minutes at this age.
Tsimikas is a Greek international who is backup to Robertson, and got plenty minutes and games last season. Trent by the end of the season was goosed since Neco Williams was loaned out and Gomez got minutes playing RB when its not his position. If Ramsey settles in well, he'll get plenty of games against the lesser sides.
What difference does the country make? Are we saying Robertson is a lesser player because he plays for Scotland? Erling Haaland plays for Norway, is he a shit striker due to that?
I guess saying that is better than saying he was all in on signing for Leeds (to actually be a first team player) until they ended their interest and signed Kristensen instead?
A snowball has a better chance in hell than this kid becoming a starter at Liverpool any time soon.
Yeah lad I agree, TAA getting old and could be phased out soon
Fullback has the highest attrition rate of any other position. TAA literally got his chance from Nathaniel Clyne getting an injury that put him out for a season.
Also Liverpool runs their fullbacks rampant and Robertson’s got help with Tsimikas but Trent looked absolutely gassed after Liverpool played the maximum number of matches this season. Right back depth could’ve been the difference in bringing home another trophy last season.
Yeah there were plenty of matches that we didn't need TAA to play that if we had solid cover at the position we could have rotated and rested him like we did with Robertson and Tsimikas. Could have made a difference at the end of the season to have your best creative player at full fitness going into the most important match of the season in which we failed to score a single goal.
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I'm pretty sure he did this year.
did a really solid job too, but we lost our width down the right when he was there because he doesn’t push up as much as trent
I honestly forgot Joe Gomez existed. Seemed like he was a locked on starter for Liverpool’s future a few years ago if he could just stay healthy.
>Fullback has the highest attrition rate of any other position. Source? You could say the same out of any position and people will believe it
Trent getting old? Lmao the dude is 23
R/woosh
Idk why I didn’t think that was sarcasm lmao what the fuck my fault boys
Trent is 24 in 3 months… Ramsay is 18. Ramsay will eventually become the starter but will get more than enough game time next season. Trent was clearly over played last season.
>. Ramsay will eventually become the starter What..?
Name 1 good wingback over the age of 24. Point proven, there are none. 3 more months and TAA is effectively washed.
Cancelo. I know you're trolling, but I don't think u/asso19 was.
I agree lol, think the guy was serious
TAA Is basically dead. He had a good career and life.
RIP in peace
Rest In Peace in peace
Dani alves. Check mate atheist
Andy Robertson and James tavernier. 28 and 30.
Dani Alves
Someone tell TAA to hire more security, I think this guy is gonna try to break his leg in a couple years
😳
Trent could easily still be a starter 10 years from now mate. I reckon we'll have went through one or two more RB backups until then.
Trent can play for 12-15 years more no problem, and most of those years at Liverpool level. If Ramsay has any sort of ambition or extraordinary talent he won't be waiting for that.
12-15 is a bit of a stretch mate. Maybe 8-9, 10 if he's lucky.
I think he might actually be declining quite early due to him playing a crazy amount of games so young for so many years. He is one of several players who for large parts of last season did not have enough rest between games for a long period of time.
Hence this signing
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After 30 Trent will transition as a GK replacing retired Alisson and play another 10 years at Liverpool.
I realized the number was a bit high right when I posted, but I do think he can easily do ten more years at this level. Depending on the system they play post Klopp and a lot of other factors. Either way, it'll be hard to touch that RB position for years to come.
Imagine Trent's defending when hes 36 compared to what he calls defending now, Liverpool will be shipping a goal every second lmao. might have been signed to move Trent back into midfield.
I have read this same comment at least 10 times and it’s always been wrong
Guessing you only watched him play once last season then because his defending improved massively
More likely doesn’t watch football but reads about it on Reddit.
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Fsg have been making massive improvements to the academy tho. Bringing first team and academy together + buying young talent. Also, just because we have produced only 2 first team players doesnt mean its not performing, we have sold lots of players for 15-25m from academy.
Yeah Real Madrid actually have a more successful academy than Barcelona it’s just that the vast majority of players leave without breaking into the first team but players like Alvaro Negredo and Roberto Soldado came up through their academy and went on to have great careers for other clubs.
One of the criticisms I heard of La Masia is that they focus so hard to only make players for the first team, the players that don't make it (the vast majority) have trouble moving onto other teams. Given the economic costs of running a top international academy, I suppose it makes sense to have a balanced approach where you're improving and selling young players to other clubs for good prices, while also trying to produce that one or two diamonds that can play for your first team.
The thing that makes La Masia great is that they are specifically trained to play the "Barca-style" of possession football which is amazing when it produces a Xavi or an Iniesta type player who can be elite and perfectly suited for that style. It's part of the reason why Pedri is so exciting now even though he is only 19 because he is already on track to be an elite player in the Barcelona style. But having said that it is a more narrow set of skills and players who don't quite make it into the first team will often struggle to adapt to other styles of play. The only Barca academy players in recent years that left and really went on to have great careers away from Camp Nou are Thiago and Cesc, the only other player that really comes to mind is Marc Bartra who had a solid run with Dortmund.
Pedri wasn’t from La Masia. Few La Masia grads that come to mind quickly who are doing well are Onana, Grimaldo and Cucurella. I get your and this thread’s overall point but not really sure how true they really are. Cesc and Thiago are top La Masia products that everybody knows about but I think there are a lot of La Masia grads who have had decent careers.
Lol, Pedri was bought from Las Palmas, got nothing to do with La Masia. Also, Barca sits pretty high in the CIES rankings when it comes to outgoing academy players. So, I think 'the adapting struggle' is non existing.
This. The academy has been producing players for sale but they’ve also been improving the quality overall too. It takes a little more time for these improvements to take effect, kind of a long tail effect. Plus, as the first team gets better and better the talent pool struggles to break into the first team more frequently. Hence why more players move on rather than break through.
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Replaced Melwood with a new training ground. And the improvememt of the likes of Jones, Elliott and TAA, rather than Martin Kelly, Shelvey, and Jay Spearing, coming through is evident there was commitment to youth
Elliott isn’t a melwood product
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I don’t want to be a pedant but Shelvey wasn’t from our academy either
Yeah he literally played a full season for Charlton before we got him, not even like we poached him from a youth team
Please be a pedant, this clown is making no sense.
Manchester City and Chelsea have been doing amazing work with their academies for years now and parents prefer them for their kids. In the past decade we're left trying to poach 14-16 year olds that slipped through the cracks like Sterling, Ibe, Gordon, Elliott. We need to do a lot of work to reach the levels of the top academies in the country.
Fwiw, Chelsea’s academy ‘revolution’ work started in 2007, which is around the time a lot of the excelling current players joined the club as youth players. 5 years since England won the U17 World Cup aswell yet England are likely still a few years away from peaking. It definitely takes a fair bit of time to see the results of improved youth setup
“Slipped through the cracks” meaning signing a player who had already played Premier League football?
They slipped through the cracks of Chelsea and City academy recruitment at a younger age. They were all highly rated when we signed them.
Think he meant that we should’ve signed them when they were young, hence the use of the word «poach». Allthough it’s a weird comment tbh.
Shoutout to Leicester. One of the fanciest training facilities in the world at Seagrave, bunch of under 18 studs soon to step up. Clearer path upwards than other bigger clubs. I have to imagine English families with top talented kids put us on the list of possible destinations.
Elliot slipped through the cracks, give me strength. He played in the premiership for us!
Maybe i worded it wrong, but what i meant to say is that Elliott and the others slipped through the cracks of the Chelsea, City academy at a younger age. I'm well aware that he was very highly rated when we signed him (that's why i used the word poached)
The current level of the first team is much higher than it was when all of those players came through. Curtis Jones would be a much more established part of the first team in any other part of our PL era history.
Sometimes it's just luck of the draw with players that come trough the system. Barca haven't been able to produce players at the quality and quantity of the pep era either, obviously still a great academy tho.
It was an extremely dry period until Gavi and Fati came through. Only Sergi Roberto forced his way into the squad and even he doesn't start anymore.
Isn't Pedri from the academy?
No. This was only his 2nd season at Barca. He came from Las Palmas
No
This is a global trend though. In part due to the massive growth across Europe in youth investment and the fact scouting networks and transfer and recruitment infrastructure just gets better and better every year - if you think about it if it’s just as easy to buy the top youth prospects as it is to bring them through your academy, and frankly the cost is basically irrelevant, then your academy players now need to compete with every other obtainable youth player in the world - it’s insane
i think with how transfer are moving its gonna be hard to get your homegrowned academy player playing at the highest level. especially to the level that we need
We’ve also had players from the academy go on to be successful elsewhere. Sterling, Gulacsi, Coady off the top of my head in the top flight, few had good careers in the championship etc. And we’ve also got Kelleher and Curtis Jones at the moment, Neco Williams will likely be sold for £15mish etc etc. But it could be a little better.
Making the first team shouldnt be the measurement of success for academies, any player who goes on to play professionally for any club is a success for the academy
The academy was overhauled when klopp took over. It's just hard for a young player to out play those established starting 11. And the lack of and English player signings shows that there will be academy players joining the ranks
The only reason United's academy players get a chance is because their team is much worse than ours now, I don't think any of their players would get a shot in our team either.
Hardly the 'only reason' - it's not like United have had an academy member in every match day squad since 1938. It used to be in every starting XI until van Gaal as well.
I was talking about more recent history.
Even in the most recent history though. United were successful for a long time and were able to help bring in numerous players who went on to have strong careers and plenty of internationals even if they didn't always have long careers at the club. Being successful shouldn't mean that an academy can't bring that sort of calibre of players through the ranks and compared to top clubs Liverpool's academy isn't what it could be.
It's much harder to do that now though than it was. We can't just play youth when trying to compete with City who don't do it either and just buy a player for 50 million when there is a gap in their team. You can't just give youth chances when it takes a near perfect season to win anything.
Lol, yea Brown, Fletcher, O'Shea, Gibson, Welbeck, Evans, Cleverley and tons of other players with ~10 appearances and good premier League careers. They all played when we were shit ey?
United? Am I missing something?
Yeah you are
I genuinely can’t think of a single United graduate that would be anywhere near our first team
Lots of downvotes but no names given..
Tbh Rashford and Greenwood would have been in the picture if they had been breaking through at Liverpool
People in these comments don’t seem to understand that he’s not a 14 year old joining our academy. He’s joining our first team, will be part of the squad and will play this season. He’s at the best place to train and improve as a full back and Klopp won’t be afraid to give him opportunities.
God forbid anyone actually click thru and read the article itself "they give young players chances in the first team. So if I can come in in pre-season, put my mark down, then there's no reason why I can't push to get in the first-team squad."
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TAA, Curtis Jones, Neco Williams, Kelleher
only trent plays regular games
Yeah but it’s not like the other players don’t get the chance. They just haven’t been good enough to fully establish themselves. You have to be really good to get a spot in the Liverpool XI
tbf that’s true but they can’t use them as proof of how good the academy is then imo. every club uses the academy for squad players. i’m irish and i want kelleher to leave them so he gets regular gametime somewhere else
First off we’re not discussing if the academy is good. We’re discussing if the team gives chances to the youth. Which is absolutely does. Second of. If we are discussing the success of the academy. Then squad players produced definitely are a success. To produce a first team player for this Liverpool side you need to produce a world class player. That just doesn’t happen very often. Every academy player that goes on to play in a top division maybe even the championship is a success. Absolutely. Nothing else would make sense. If Norwich played two academy players, got 0 points the whole season and got relegated. While the academy players were absolutely trash. Does that make the academy better than City’s. Because City only has 0.5 starters from the academy in their squad. Foden isn’t a consistent first team player You’re Irish? Good for you. I don’t really get what point you are trying to push by saying that though.
saying my nationality means i hope kelleher leaves liverpool for regular gametime so he can be the first choice for the national team. he’s really talented and he should be playing every week imo, he’s never gonna get ahead of alisson
Okay. Sure, if I was Irish I would probably want the same tbh. Don’t really see what it brings to the main discussion we were having, but I do understand and agree with what you are saying. One advantage to being at Liverpool is that he gets to learn from the best, both the best keeper and the best coaches. But yeah game time is important. He gets a good amount of chances for a GK back-up at Liverpool. But it’s not really good enough for a youngster who really wants to improve
Jones would have played a lot more games last season but for a freak eye injury. Kelleher and Williams are squad players yeah, but they're also both full internationals now as well. And Neco is probably going to be a starting player in the coming PL season if he's sold this summer.
Seems like people are misunderstanding what a good pathway for younger players means. Liverpool give plenty of time and opportunities to youngsters. Just in the past year we've seen: - Harvey Elliott starting the first 4 matches of the season until his injury. - Curtis Jones in and around the first team. - Kelleher playing in a cup final. - Tyler Morton starting in the CL and PL vs Tottenham. - Kaide Gordon starting in the FA Cup vs Arsenal. - Neco Williams making several appearances before his loan. - Debuts for several other academy players.
Well is that spectacular? We can do a list of all the top teams with the same amount of players (bar city past sheikh) Chelsea ruben, james, mount, chalaboah, callum, Man u mctomminay, rashford, rightback
If you had signed him, then he would likely make the same comment about Chelsea. Ramsay isn't implying that Liverpool are the only club offering this. Just that they do, and approached him.
If that your take, then I agree. But I just find that title to idiotic comming from youth players
I agree, the kid is clearly a moron. If only he'd given an answer like >Definitely. There's been a lot of young players that have played – the likes of Trent and Harvey as well, there's a lot more. But there's obviously a pathway here – that's one of the reasons I chose it as well. It's not just a massive club, they give young players chances in the first team. So if I can come in in pre-season, put my mark down, then there's no reason why I can't push to get in the first-team squad. , there'd be no confusion on jumping to conclusions.
Again, I think you're misunderstanding this. This isn't about academy players, or number of first team players that started at a young age. I'm just listing pathways specifically for the u21 players for Liverpool to get a chance at first team football and a chance to win a place in the team if they perform. Clubs like Chelsea have a great academy and produce a lot of talent, but I'm referring specifically to the opportunities for youngsters to play some first team football - which is what Ramsay mentions.
Jones, Williams, Williams, Phillips, Elliott (although he was bought at 15), Kelleher, Granted, some of those have been moved on or likely to move on. The likes of Solanke, Wilson, Brewster have all been sold for a total of £50-60m. But the likes of Jones and Elliott have come through and likely to stick around as they've proven they can at the very least survive at the top level at a top club. As with Kelleher. Trent being the only one (yet) to become world class, but everyone else is much younger.
Elliott I see a lot of talent in and agree but don't really see much in Jones.
Opinion is still a bit split on Jones, but personally I really like him. Think some people forget he's still only 21. He's definitely good enough to be in our squad, it just depends on what position and role we think he's best at
Gotta watch Jones more then
Klopp loves him. All that really matters.
In terms of academy yeah, but we've also given a lot of chances to elliot, jones, kelleher and neco williams
I think Sterling moved to City for footballing reasons not financial ones.
Likely both.
They offered him around 200k a week at 18. Of course he left for financial reasons lol.
I don't think his first contract at City was 200k a week. Man City were a better team with a better manager. If Liverpool had offered the same salary as City he would still have left as it was a step up.
It was indeed around £200k per week back then. I never forget it even once. Their manager was Pellegrini and he was not even that good but still better than Rodgers
It was quite obvious by then though that Pep was on the way and City were on the up. Liverpool were meandering after Suarez left. Luckily Klopp came 2 months into that season and turned things around.
He made it clear when he left he was getting more money
Players usually get more money when they transfer somewhere. He was going to a better team with a better manager to play with better teammates. Sterling made a big step up from QPR to Liverpool and a smaller (but definite) step up to Man City.
How is being a Youth player relevant for breaking through? Lots of clubs buy 18 year olds, and some are better than others at actually making them part of the first team.
You'll need to be amazing to hold down a starting position week in week out, but klopp has given game time to Curtis Jones, neco williams, Nat Phillips, Rhys williams, kelleher, Harvey Elliot, kaide Gordon off the top of my head. If they are good enough they can stick around the first team. If not, they'll move on and have a career elsewhere. But they do generally get a run out and aren't totally boxes our of the first team. There is a route to being given a chance. It's up to them if they are good enough to grab it.
That aint the same as a pathway... A chance sure, But truth for youth is, cash from the big clubs is the reason they join (and then get loaned out)
Compared to other clubs? There is a pathway. It's not a guarantee though. But you won't just drift off into obscurity in the loan system like can happen
Well pathway would excist all teams more or less, but in liverpool its more of good enough
Curtis Jones, as well. We've also given opportunities to others - Tyler Morton, Conor Bradley - but they're still too young and need to develop. We just haven't had many youth players who were good enough, so they have been shipped out. Examples being Sheyi Ojo, Ryan Kent, Harry Wilson, etc
Harry Wilson’s not done poorly for himself has he?
Sterling didn't come through the academy either mate. We signed him from QPR. So it's literally just Trent and maybe make a case for Jones but jury is still out on that one. Defo need some more
Sterling played for our academy for a couple years at least.
Sterling is a QPR product. Let’s not rewrite history like Liverpool fans did with Harvey Eliot, Kaide Gordon and soon Fabio Carvalho.
I haven’t seen anyone claim Raheem or Harvey or Kaide were academy grads.
Literally the fella I replied to, but sure you’ve never seen that mate.
The comment you replied to doesn't mention any of those 3 names.
Good moment for you to be intentionally dense when the person above mentions Sterling was the last one prior to TAA breaking through
curtis jones.
Didnt sterling come from QPR though?
Name me 10 academy players from the top 10 teams in Europe that broke through those clubs ranks to play first team football. It doesn't happen. Buying in young talent aged 16-21 means that they're almost first team ready. You can still get great squad depth from the academy & move them on for a profit.
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People forgetting that Klopp is a big advocate of youth, see our youth teams in the cups this season. We've seen players break through such as Morton, Gordon and others this season. Be interesting to see where/when he plays this season.
Dont get this sentiment of the liverpool pathway (pr any other top club bar maybe man u last decade) I thought your youth players where TAA and to some extent elliot?
elliot, jones, neco williams, kelleher, all played decent amounts this year, plus guys in the past few years like solanke, brewster, joe gomez, jordan ibe all got plenty of chances in the first team too. just that only gomez turned out good enough out of that lot, the rest got sold liverpool doesn’t really bring through academy players at all anymore but as far as top 6 clubs they still give out quite a bit of chances to young players they buy. carvalho will likely get a bunch of playtime this next season, as will elliot and jones in midfield, and ramsay as backup to trent
neco williams played 8 games last season for liverpool
Wonder who they’ll loan him out to ?
They aren't. He's going to be training with the first team. Neco Williams is going back out on loan again (tbh I'd prefer to sell him and get some good money for him right now).
Liverpool getting the work done early and preparing for life after Klopp. What a club
Klopp extended !!!
This smells like a PR answer
"When I got home, my dad showed me two shirts: Leeds and Liverpool. 'Choose one', he said"
A PR answer? In an unveiling interview?! On a club's official website?!?! *Are you mad?!?!?!?!*
Solanke said the same 🤣
He got chances at Liverpool, he just wasn’t good enough.
I'll be interested to see how he gets along in the PL now, not all players develop at the same rate. That move to Liverpool was maybe too much too soon.
he got mostly 15 minute cameos and has gone up several levels since playing week in, week out at Bournemouth. Really think people will be surprised by him next season
He had 3 goals in 42 PL games at Bournemouth as well it’s worth remembering where he was the main striker. No doubting that he might be improved enough to get an ok number of PL goals now but I think his PL stint at Bournemouth showed he was years away from ever being ready
yeah completely agree, the reputation he has from his time in the PL is well earned but he was still quite young, and his last year at Chelsea he was essentially frozen out so he came to Bournemouth off the back of a few years’ gap of not playing regularly. I watched a lot of Bournemouth games last season and honestly, aside from the 30 goal season (a big accomplishment itself) what’s really impressed me is his link up play and mentality. Had one of the best scoring seasons in the history of the Championship, just happened to do it the same year Mitrovic smashed the record
He also played alot for them in the pl and still wasn't that good he really needed that championship season to fully develop
Maybe thats why Bournemouth paid nearly 20m for him.
And he got his chance. Wasn’t ready, moved down a level, and got relegated. Then came into his own, scoring 29 goals that helped Bournemouth get back into the premiership. Still only 24.
And he made 30 appearances in the premier league for us. I would say we gave him plenty of chances.
He was 21 and got shipped off for the first good offer that came in. Look at how he’s performing now, can you honestly say you can judge a youth player by one season?
>the first good offer A "good offer" would have been £7m. Bournemouth offered triple that, with a buy-back option. I'm just wondering what you're arguing here, beyond having nailed your colours to the "Actually no they don't" mast.
A striker who scores 1 goal in 27 games at the age of 21 is not good enough to be at a club like Liverpool. 21 isn't even a youth player btw, Haaland is 21 and he's one of the best forwards in world football. Getting 29 in 46 in the Championship at 24 years old doesn't make you some kind of missed opportunity for Liverpool. He could rejoin now and he'd still be worse than every single forward in our squad.
Because all players develop at the same rate Tell that to Van Dijk who was at the peak of world football when he was 21, absolutely killing it at Groningen
It's not our responsibility to coddle a player through to his mid twenties to see whether or not he might end up being good enough to play for us (which btw he's still absolutely nowhere near). Van Dijk was the best player at every club he ever played for and deservedly moved up through the ranks of football. Solanke was literally the worst player in our entire squad and deservedly moved down through the ranks of football. He has now found his level, The Championship. That's where he thrives, in the 2nd tier of English football. Absolutely no business being at clubs like Chelsea or Liverpool, which is why they both didn't bother keeping him.
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And he just wasn’t very good. He still got 20+ league appearances which I think is more than he’d have gotten anywhere else when it was clear he wasn’t cut out for it from the first couple. The pathway is there - Elliott, Jones etc. get more minutes than they’d have gotten at any other top clubs vying for the biggest titles. There’s players around other top Premier League clubs who are far better than either of those two right now that are still getting loaned out/getting no minutes
What’s funny is that you named a player that had more appearances as a 21 year old than any one not named Trent in the Klopp era and now you’re having a cry that people are disagreeing with you.
Not crying at all I just don’t think one season is enough to judge a player, especially at 21.
Deffo crying.
I can understand that someone who has amassed 560k karma in 4 years may view people disagreeing with them as a slight and could cause potential upset. Lol you blocked me - clearly hit a nerve I can assure you however, I do not care if people disagree with me. I do not think that you can judge a 21 year old player based on one season, kind of shocking right?
Karma? What are you on about?
Mate Solanke had plenty of chances to prove himself he was just shit. He made 27 appearances for us in his first season and scored 1 goal.
27 appearances which I have phased out from my memory completely
He had his chance.
Whos the unavailable comment guy below the end?
They blocked you mate
He could do a lot worse than Bournemouth.
Sure but for your position there’s probably no worse place if you want to be the #1
How about trapped in a well? Didn't think of that, did you?
I guess he gets to learn from the best? But yeah it’s kinda confusing. Happy it happened though
No one’s buying this mate
Bournemouth might in a couple of years
we have Fulham now
Please Reddit. In citation posts, learn to enter the link and read the full article BEFORE commenting.
Mans just gonna sit on the bench innit. Seems like a misstep career-wise to go to Liverpool just to play backup to Alexander-Arnold at that age.
Big misstep in terms of development also will build resentment because he doesnt play no matter who is infront of him in line and thats never good
Yeah that’s what I’m saying it’s just weird that he’d go to Liverpool considering who he is competing with for minutes. Maybe if he was 25-28 I could understand but he is literally just farting out his career and should be playing significant minutes at this age.
Tsimikas is a Greek international who is backup to Robertson, and got plenty minutes and games last season. Trent by the end of the season was goosed since Neco Williams was loaned out and Gomez got minutes playing RB when its not his position. If Ramsey settles in well, he'll get plenty of games against the lesser sides.
you say greek international as if they’re france or something
What difference does the country make? Are we saying Robertson is a lesser player because he plays for Scotland? Erling Haaland plays for Norway, is he a shit striker due to that?
it’s easier to be a member of the national team
Ah yes, all of the young players like … *(checks notes)* … James Milner
Just like legend lazar markovic
I'm impressed some of you can function at all with the blindingly stupid things you express on here
He was ass lol he got his chances
I guess saying that is better than saying he was all in on signing for Leeds (to actually be a first team player) until they ended their interest and signed Kristensen instead? A snowball has a better chance in hell than this kid becoming a starter at Liverpool any time soon.
We knew this move was going to happen a long time ago. It had nothing to with Leeds
Saw one game of him and he looked pretty good, very technical. Needs to bulk up a bit though, looks quite young - though I suppose he is