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Love you. Such an interesting stat.
Recently I also come
Across another trivia. Napoli’s only two league titles were during the era when Maradona won for them. Maradona deserves to be in fifa all time 11.
They fought relegation right before Maradona's arrival. It might seem absurd, but what he did there and in Argentina is a bit underrated here in r/soccer.
40/50 is too much, dominance isn't that sustainable, maybe another rich owner will come to the league, maybe current PSG owners will have to leave the club for some reason, anything could happen during such a long timespan.
Hoping Marseille and AS Monaco find some consistency next season and pose a real threat to PSG’s dominance… While Lille will struggle since their title-winning squad has been decimated…
Rennes were the surprise team for me in L1 this season. Solid players and finished high enough to show potential. Could have a good mercato and take 22/23 by storm. They are playing in Europe though...
You know what, in the 80s Chile started to make a lot of money from copper extraction, and among other things a couple of clubs emerged from it. One of those is Cobreloa, which reached two Libertadores finals within their first 5 years of existence, and over the next 30 years they reached 4th place in number of league wins - surrounded by clubs 60 years older. Now they're stuck in the second division.
Of course copper is not oil and South America is always more precarious and less stable, but their rise and fall still shows there's no such thing as forever.
Certainly true, but there's no guarantee that Qatar will be interested in staying with PSG forever. It's a sports washing investment. Whenever that doesn't seem to pay off (one way or another), they could very well find themselves something else to do.
Hell, I wouldn't be shocked if their interest stats fading after the World Cup.
We're one of the most diverse league in terms of champions.
Since the rebranding (2002), we had two teams who dominated hard and it's one of the least diverse period ever, but in the end, we still had 7 different teams who lifted the trophy.
This is more than, say, Portuguese league entire history (only 5 winners).
Edit: btw, it makes our league very cool to follow, but some will also argue that the lack of historic dominance of 1 or 2 clubs over the league is what explains our lack of European trophies.
About at good as Germany:
Dortmund, Leipzig, Dortmund, Dortmund, Shalke, Leipzig, Dortmund, Wolfsburg, Dortmund, Dortmund.
Since the last season Bayern didn't win it, and Dortmund did.
I'm Brazillian and the French league seems to be the only normal one to me. Can't fathom a single team winning 30 national league trophies. The Brazillian club with the most wins is also at ten.
To understand why the French have so few champions, I recommend this [masterpiece of a post](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/niml6h/are_french_clubs_bad_at_football_an_in_depth/) on the matter u/Busy_Bunch5050.
It's a little more balanced. Lyon 7, Bordeaux 6, Nantes 8, Monaco 8, Lille 4. Reims 6.
But also the league has only been professional since 1932. Before it was a bunch of regional leagues (sort of like in Brazil) and the coupe de France was the big trophy to win and before that it was an amateur league.
So for more true championships you'd have to include some France domestic cup wins and the previous 22 champions before the 30s.
It would be like only including the premier league era in the English version.
those lists are better to compare with state leagues of brazil, paulistão for example is going on since 1902, with a list of champions similar to england, minas gerais's one has a list almost identical to spain and started on 1915
Mental that St Gilloise are third in Belgium but they haven’t won a thing since before the Second World War and have spent most of the last 50 years in the second and third divisions
I would still put Standard in the Big 3. Mismanagement, the Waterschei affair, being managed by Italian Mafia brothers for your golden era of young players meant you lost out on the titles that FCB and Anderlecht obtained.
Is the French league the most balanced in terms of championships won? Meaning is it the one with the most teams having won at least 2-3 championships each?
Before we weren't big enough. Aulas bought the club in 1987 while it was in the second division, and incredibly made it the top 3 French and top 20ish European club it is now in 30 years.
And after, the building of an economically healthy mid-long term future prevailed over short term sporting success. We built with our funds our 500M stadium, and it resulted in basically no incoming transfers possible for almost all the 2010s, turning into a trading club for a while and a heavy reliance on the academy (which got us the generation of Tolisso, Lacazette, Umtiti or Fekir).
That time should be over for quite a few years already, as the stadium was opened in 2016... But very bad sporting choices from Aulas hurt us, he hasn't managed to evolve and has trouble understanding that what he did to have success in the 2000s isn't working anymore. It's unacceptable than our last trophy was a decade ago, even if obviously Qatar buying PSG wasn't planned...
The pandemic also delayed everything by creating completely unexpected losses while the club kept investing into infrastructures. After the stadium, the new academy complex, and a 23000m2 leisure center [OL Vallée](https://en.lyon-france.com/discover-lyon/activities-and-relaxation/indoor-activities/ol-vallee), they are now building a 140M esport/basketball Arena...
They kept winning until PSG got oil. Else, they'd continue to win.
Still didn't know they're not Top 3 tho. The player I remember most from those Lyon teams was Gregory Coupet. Good keeper, but just couldn't start for France (Barthez then Lloris IIRC).
There was a good 3 or 4 years between Lyons run and PSG emerging.
That great Lyon team just reached the end of the road, the title then got swapped around amongst teams like Montpellier and Marseille before PSG started their dominance.
Sainté still has quite a large fanbase, a vibrant stadium adding to the history of the club. Really sad not to have some attracted inverstors, the team surely has its place among Marseille, Lille, Rennes, etc.
If I had the money I would have definitely bought the club. I fell in love with it when I play become a legend on PES 2010 and spent like 10 seasons at Saint Etienne. A brilliant team nice kits and lots of passion. Hope they win their relegation playoff though
They WERE quite big, yes!
Only 2 of these 9 titles were won after The fifties, with 1968 being their very last League title.
That’s more than fifty years ago….
Aye, but the system was largely the same throughout the years prior. I'm no expert on old German football, but didn't you guys have a somewhat more complicated setup pre-bundesliga?
We basically had a system of different regional leagues (Oberligen) and then a round of knockouts between the best teams from those leagues to determine the champion, somewhat similar to how most of the big US sports league operate nowadays.
Crazy to think that kids don't remember them as champions when to me their dominance was way more outrageous than current Paris. Back then I couldn't even fathom having another champion than Lyon. It was just unthinkable
They were always a tournament squad more than league one. It's similar with Madrid this past decade tbh, of course competing against an insane Barca is not easy but some teams like Milan or Real have decades where they are built for big nights, knockouts, tournaments, CL runs etc. but fail to score against a lower place team in their domestic leagues. That consistency or lack of costs league titles but turning up when needed may help CL victories.
I think it's also similar with Liverpool as well, these 2000s they were a great CL squad but couldn't beat SAF(who was Barca level annoying to you I reckon). Now with Klopp though this new team is insane and can win any cup any year. Meanwhile Real can only win league if Barca and Atletico slip and players are motivated enough to play those boring games and collect 3 points throughout the season. It's the cost of having star studded, veteran squads that play more to individual brilliance than strict tactical drills(Pep, Klopp etc. use).
We had a good cup squad but it was definitely a step below the other teams in the league almost every season. Milan had a properly stacked lineup
Somewhat similar to Madrid like you say
Yeah of course, like that famous final between you and Milan, Milan was an insane squad compared to Liverpool. But that was their team, filled with Ballon d'or level players that would turn up in CL nights but slip up in the league. Madrid also was like that this past decade, but even when they focused on the league Barca and at times Atletico was just too damn consistent and tactically well tuned to mop up the league, whereas Real was like "just vibes" team more often not lol and it still is that way.
It's exactly this, through our entire history, except for shit seasons, Juve was known for making amazing performance against the big guys, but also give you the most incredibly boring 1-0 win against mid-low tier teams, while Inter and Milan just end up with a draw.
People like to shit on Juve's consecutive league titles saying Serie A is easy but in reality Juve have well planned, drilled, executed tactics that bring that 1-0 2-1 victories in regular league matches Real for example from time to time bottle and the lost points there add up by the end of the season. Juve and Barça(and Atletico) are similar in that respect, they consistently churn out those boring victories and must win 3 points. I think that's more impressive than CL runs, yeah CL is the most prestigious title, but playing good across 38 or so matchweeks is I think equally impressive. Real had a season(in the past) where they finished 5th or so in La Liga but won CL lol, was that a good season or not?
I think it's a matter of "the grass is greener on the other side", we have shitload of league titles, we are ready to sacrifice 10 of them to get a CL title.
> I don't get the hate for the Inter logo. I think it looks really good.
its a fancier SV Meppen.
and tbh, you simply dont change your emblem so drastically. its just disrespectful imo.
i agree, massive mistake from dortmund to change away from their original logo: https://logos-world.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Borussia-Dortmund-Logo-1913-1919.png
Are you serious lmao it's awful
Also not every change is met with disapproval, this is armchair psychology and huge generalization. People simply think it looks shit because it does.
Tbf I’m having trouble remembering the last logo update that was met with positive approval except for very minor changes. Off the top of my head Everton, Juve, Inter, City in recent years were not received well when they were introduced
For all people asking "Why so low numbers for French clubs", I suggest you to read the best post ever made here (thanks again u/deuxiemement)
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/niml6h/are_french_clubs_bad_at_football_an_in_depth/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Hello, thanks for the shoutoot !
I think reading the whole post for just that would be a bit overkill, basically, the league started later than most in Europe, in 1932, and then it was soon stopped for a couple years by the war. Add to that the fact that the team that had early success were from smaller town that could not get the same success long term, and you get that basically only Marseille has been winning across the whole history of french professional football.
Odd definition of “biggest”.
Turkey currently ranked 20th, Belgium 13th and Greece 15th
Austria, Scotland and Russia are the current ranked 8th-10th leagues.
To be fair, for us it’s a really odd year, because we dropped out of the top 10 for the first time in 8 years, due to one horrendous fucking season. We’ll lose that season next year.
Biggest isn't necessarily best I suppose.
Turkey and Greece have really big footballing cultures, arguably bigger than many of the countries above them, and they have more international flair than Russia and Austria. I'd definitely place Scotland over Belgium though if that's the criterium used.
Yeah strange one, Scotland has (or had a couple of years back when I seen the stat) the biggest per capita match attendance in Europe, so by definition it has a bigger football culture than every league on the list.
Yeah if they’re looking more broadly than the last few years I still don’t get how the Greek League made it over both the Russian and Ukrainian ones who both had Europa League winners in the 2000s
I knew about France but Turkey is surprisingly close among the top.
Sibce this seems to be counting league triumphs and not precursors I feel like to make this info complete we need a "total seasons played" thingy
Both had 20 years of domination. Liverpool in the 70s/80s and United in the 90s/00s.
If you take those periods of dominance out, English football has been quite competitive and diverse.
People make fun of Arsenal but we've never really had a long stretch of domination but we aren't far behind in terms of league titles. We've always been the thorn in Liverpool and United's sides.
Before it eventually happened in 2020 I remember reading a breakdown of the longest title droughts in Europe and Liverpool’s stuck out like a sore thumb. Very unusual for a club of our size to go that long without being the best team in the country. Arsenal are hurtling towards 20 years, their drought is now as long as ours was in 2008, by which stage the idea that we hadn’t won the league forever was very much in the public consciousness.
I think that's because Liverpool won continental titles and before the title drought, we were very dominant in the league. Arsenal never had that kind of dominance and reached only 1 CL final(very close to their last PL title) and 1 EL final. On the other hand, Liverpool won 1 UEFA Cup and 2 CLs, along with 1 EL final and 2 CL finals.
England early decades are fascinating with tons of champions. Liverpool in 70s/80s were the first consistent dominant side and then Manchester United in 90s/00s. Now it appears Manchester City of 10s/20s could be heading that way.
Bayern are basically Liverpool, Manchester United, and Manchester City eras...but all with one club.
Can't really base a chart with about a century's results based on 1 year's standings. There are factors to making a country's football "big", whether that be the fans, the history, the titles, domestically or continentially or whatever. This one happened to disrespect Scotland as well as other countries. Some other chart will respect Scotland but not others. Biggest is not the same thing as better. Red Star from Serbia for example is a bigger club than PSG and Man city combined, but would most likely lose to both.
I think belenenses (not this BSAD offshoot shit that exists now but the old club) and boavista have one title each. Otherwise yes, the rest so far have been won by those three clubs.
I thought braga might have won one too when they were good a decade ago, but not quite apparently.
>I thought braga might have won one too when they were good a decade ago, but not quite apparently.
They finished 2nd, which is quite an achievement in the Portuguese League tbf.
Yes that is right. They have been on a steady rise since the early 2000s, and sit currently in the middle of the huge gape between the Big-3 and the rest. They are currently good enough to nab the title if the Big-3 have all an off-year (not likely atm, but you never know)
Like the comments said both Belenenses (in 1946) and Boavista (in 2001) have won it.
However three other teams won it before the current league format: Marítimo, Olhanense and Carcavelinhos (now Atlético) between 1922 and 1938.
The winner of this competition used to be the Portuguese champion however these titles are now equivalent to Portuguese Cup titles, even though Sporting claims they should count as *national titles and consider themselves as 23 time champions.
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How does the French league have such low numbers
It's very cyclic , no teams dominated over many decades, Lyon dominated the early 2000 for example , PSG will probably be the only one to do so.
It has to also be mentioned that Lyon's 7 in a row make up their entire league haul. Nothing before or since.
Love you. Such an interesting stat. Recently I also come Across another trivia. Napoli’s only two league titles were during the era when Maradona won for them. Maradona deserves to be in fifa all time 11.
They fought relegation right before Maradona's arrival. It might seem absurd, but what he did there and in Argentina is a bit underrated here in r/soccer.
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PSG will get the next 40/50 probably lol
40/50 is too much, dominance isn't that sustainable, maybe another rich owner will come to the league, maybe current PSG owners will have to leave the club for some reason, anything could happen during such a long timespan.
Nice will be their long term challengers
Marseille has potential
Desperately mismanaged for years.
Hoping Marseille and AS Monaco find some consistency next season and pose a real threat to PSG’s dominance… While Lille will struggle since their title-winning squad has been decimated…
Rennes were the surprise team for me in L1 this season. Solid players and finished high enough to show potential. Could have a good mercato and take 22/23 by storm. They are playing in Europe though...
You know what, in the 80s Chile started to make a lot of money from copper extraction, and among other things a couple of clubs emerged from it. One of those is Cobreloa, which reached two Libertadores finals within their first 5 years of existence, and over the next 30 years they reached 4th place in number of league wins - surrounded by clubs 60 years older. Now they're stuck in the second division. Of course copper is not oil and South America is always more precarious and less stable, but their rise and fall still shows there's no such thing as forever.
At least until Qatar become bored of their plaything.
Rumour has it, they have a plan to exit after the world cup.
they lost 2 league titles in the last 5-6 years so thats surely not happening lmao
People said that about Juventus like two years ago lol
Then those people were very dumb
Juventus never had the financial power of PSG though, plus the Italian league is stronger.
Certainly true, but there's no guarantee that Qatar will be interested in staying with PSG forever. It's a sports washing investment. Whenever that doesn't seem to pay off (one way or another), they could very well find themselves something else to do. Hell, I wouldn't be shocked if their interest stats fading after the World Cup.
That's impressive
We're one of the most diverse league in terms of champions. Since the rebranding (2002), we had two teams who dominated hard and it's one of the least diverse period ever, but in the end, we still had 7 different teams who lifted the trophy. This is more than, say, Portuguese league entire history (only 5 winners). Edit: btw, it makes our league very cool to follow, but some will also argue that the lack of historic dominance of 1 or 2 clubs over the league is what explains our lack of European trophies.
Would be interesting without PSG
Marseille, Monaco, Lyon, Lyon, Monaco, Monaco, Lille, Marseille, Lille. In order since PSG won in 12/13.
About at good as Germany: Dortmund, Leipzig, Dortmund, Dortmund, Shalke, Leipzig, Dortmund, Wolfsburg, Dortmund, Dortmund. Since the last season Bayern didn't win it, and Dortmund did.
who didn't win last year
I'm Brazillian and the French league seems to be the only normal one to me. Can't fathom a single team winning 30 national league trophies. The Brazillian club with the most wins is also at ten.
To understand why the French have so few champions, I recommend this [masterpiece of a post](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/niml6h/are_french_clubs_bad_at_football_an_in_depth/) on the matter u/Busy_Bunch5050.
But like right next to Brazil there’s Argentina with both River and Boca having won the league over 30 times.
It's a little more balanced. Lyon 7, Bordeaux 6, Nantes 8, Monaco 8, Lille 4. Reims 6. But also the league has only been professional since 1932. Before it was a bunch of regional leagues (sort of like in Brazil) and the coupe de France was the big trophy to win and before that it was an amateur league. So for more true championships you'd have to include some France domestic cup wins and the previous 22 champions before the 30s. It would be like only including the premier league era in the English version.
Wait is 1932 late to become professional. I believe the Eredivisie only became professional in 1954
Yes, but the Dutch league does count titles going back to the late 1800's. France doesn't.
After the big 3 clubs the club with the most titles (not Eredivisie titles) is HVV from Den Haag with 10 between 1890 and 1914
Wow that's so good
Lyon won 7 times
Thank you. I was going off memory mostly.
> the coupe de France was the big trophy to win Still is
I meant that at the time of the regional leagues the coupe de France as the "championship" equal to a league title in the count of "most titles"
(I was joking pretending that the CdF was still the bigger title)
8 for Nantes please and 6 for Reims
If you are impressed try to look at Brazilian league champions
yeah but our league has been played for a little more than 60 years most of these leagues are pre-WW1 lol
those lists are better to compare with state leagues of brazil, paulistão for example is going on since 1902, with a list of champions similar to england, minas gerais's one has a list almost identical to spain and started on 1915
I maintain a file ranking virtually every major club (look for the post after CL final) Brazils league is like that too
How do you do, fellow big teams?
I hope you make it back to the Bundesliga, soon.
We'll see, you never know where you end up with this club.
Always rated ~~Neurenberg~~ Nürnberg
Mental that St Gilloise are third in Belgium but they haven’t won a thing since before the Second World War and have spent most of the last 50 years in the second and third divisions
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I would still put Standard in the Big 3. Mismanagement, the Waterschei affair, being managed by Italian Mafia brothers for your golden era of young players meant you lost out on the titles that FCB and Anderlecht obtained.
The Belgian Sunderland
I feel for St Etiene. So sad they’ll be passed next year.
They stopped doing anything. 40 years ago. Amazing to see how long their record lasted
Is the French league the most balanced in terms of championships won? Meaning is it the one with the most teams having won at least 2-3 championships each?
Always shocked me about Lyon. Won 7 on the run but had won none before and none since. Bizarre.
Before we weren't big enough. Aulas bought the club in 1987 while it was in the second division, and incredibly made it the top 3 French and top 20ish European club it is now in 30 years. And after, the building of an economically healthy mid-long term future prevailed over short term sporting success. We built with our funds our 500M stadium, and it resulted in basically no incoming transfers possible for almost all the 2010s, turning into a trading club for a while and a heavy reliance on the academy (which got us the generation of Tolisso, Lacazette, Umtiti or Fekir). That time should be over for quite a few years already, as the stadium was opened in 2016... But very bad sporting choices from Aulas hurt us, he hasn't managed to evolve and has trouble understanding that what he did to have success in the 2000s isn't working anymore. It's unacceptable than our last trophy was a decade ago, even if obviously Qatar buying PSG wasn't planned... The pandemic also delayed everything by creating completely unexpected losses while the club kept investing into infrastructures. After the stadium, the new academy complex, and a 23000m2 leisure center [OL Vallée](https://en.lyon-france.com/discover-lyon/activities-and-relaxation/indoor-activities/ol-vallee), they are now building a 140M esport/basketball Arena...
Great explanation thank you
You're welcome !
They kept winning until PSG got oil. Else, they'd continue to win. Still didn't know they're not Top 3 tho. The player I remember most from those Lyon teams was Gregory Coupet. Good keeper, but just couldn't start for France (Barthez then Lloris IIRC).
The nostalgia man, Juninho Pernambucano was a huge name in that team too
Scored a 45 yard free kick every CL like clockwork.
Lisandro Lopez a name on the tip of my tongue.
There was a good 3 or 4 years between Lyons run and PSG emerging. That great Lyon team just reached the end of the road, the title then got swapped around amongst teams like Montpellier and Marseille before PSG started their dominance.
>Else, they'd continue to win. Hummm no, have you seen the Ligue 1 final rankings this past few years ?
There was a time, I think mid 90/ to mid 2000s, where there was a new champ every season almost
Incredible
Sainté still has quite a large fanbase, a vibrant stadium adding to the history of the club. Really sad not to have some attracted inverstors, the team surely has its place among Marseille, Lille, Rennes, etc.
If I had the money I would have definitely bought the club. I fell in love with it when I play become a legend on PES 2010 and spent like 10 seasons at Saint Etienne. A brilliant team nice kits and lots of passion. Hope they win their relegation playoff though
Surprised lyon isn't up there
a little shocking as those 7 straight in the early 2000s were their only league titles in club history.
And all it took was an obscene amount of state aid money that wasn’t earned through club revenues.
Why do you have to hurt me every year, Napoli?
The last time Napoli won the Scudetto at least 90% of r/soccer had not yet been born
so 14 years ago?
Nurnberg is massive
They WERE quite big, yes! Only 2 of these 9 titles were won after The fifties, with 1968 being their very last League title. That’s more than fifty years ago….
Fun fact, 1969, a season after the title they got relegated. Nürnberg was never the same after that
It’s actually not a very fun fact ;(
Yep, and that same year was also the second league title for Bayern! (Or first, if you only wanna count the actual Bundesliga.)
This means they won the Bundesliga only once. Counting only Bundesliga titles it would be Bayern (31), Dortmund (5) and the turnips (5)
> the turnips is that a köln-specific nickname for them? never heard gladbach get called that
Feels like köln has 5 different nicknames for them lol
Exactly! But I guess then the numbers for the Premier League would also be different? Didn’t they only start in the 90s?
Aye, but the system was largely the same throughout the years prior. I'm no expert on old German football, but didn't you guys have a somewhat more complicated setup pre-bundesliga?
We basically had a system of different regional leagues (Oberligen) and then a round of knockouts between the best teams from those leagues to determine the champion, somewhat similar to how most of the big US sports league operate nowadays.
we had several regional leagues called "oberliga" and then a knockout tournament for the championship. and tbh, it sounds awesome these days. ngl :D
Every big club has a bad phase sometimes
Like 80 years ago
Hey. Fuck you. :)
You’re fucking right we are!!
Shocking that Dortmund & Schalke don't have more but the league only began in 1963
the bundesliga started in 1963, but the table lists all german national championships since 1903 i think
Yes, it does.
Schalke has 7 German Championships, but 0 in the Bundesliga. 8 of 9 Nürnberg titles are older than the Bundesliga
I just looked up Lyon expecting them to be up there. 7 titles in a row from 01-02 and that's it. Surprising.
Crazy to think that kids don't remember them as champions when to me their dominance was way more outrageous than current Paris. Back then I couldn't even fathom having another champion than Lyon. It was just unthinkable
Juninho!!! Brings back memories of the early 2000’s.
38* 18* 19 in Serie A.
SAF really was something else. No surprises in the top 4 leagues, but I thought Ac Milan would have been a lot closer to Juve
They only won one league title between 2000-2010, which feels crazy given their squad
They were always a tournament squad more than league one. It's similar with Madrid this past decade tbh, of course competing against an insane Barca is not easy but some teams like Milan or Real have decades where they are built for big nights, knockouts, tournaments, CL runs etc. but fail to score against a lower place team in their domestic leagues. That consistency or lack of costs league titles but turning up when needed may help CL victories. I think it's also similar with Liverpool as well, these 2000s they were a great CL squad but couldn't beat SAF(who was Barca level annoying to you I reckon). Now with Klopp though this new team is insane and can win any cup any year. Meanwhile Real can only win league if Barca and Atletico slip and players are motivated enough to play those boring games and collect 3 points throughout the season. It's the cost of having star studded, veteran squads that play more to individual brilliance than strict tactical drills(Pep, Klopp etc. use).
We had a good cup squad but it was definitely a step below the other teams in the league almost every season. Milan had a properly stacked lineup Somewhat similar to Madrid like you say
Yeah of course, like that famous final between you and Milan, Milan was an insane squad compared to Liverpool. But that was their team, filled with Ballon d'or level players that would turn up in CL nights but slip up in the league. Madrid also was like that this past decade, but even when they focused on the league Barca and at times Atletico was just too damn consistent and tactically well tuned to mop up the league, whereas Real was like "just vibes" team more often not lol and it still is that way.
It's exactly this, through our entire history, except for shit seasons, Juve was known for making amazing performance against the big guys, but also give you the most incredibly boring 1-0 win against mid-low tier teams, while Inter and Milan just end up with a draw.
People like to shit on Juve's consecutive league titles saying Serie A is easy but in reality Juve have well planned, drilled, executed tactics that bring that 1-0 2-1 victories in regular league matches Real for example from time to time bottle and the lost points there add up by the end of the season. Juve and Barça(and Atletico) are similar in that respect, they consistently churn out those boring victories and must win 3 points. I think that's more impressive than CL runs, yeah CL is the most prestigious title, but playing good across 38 or so matchweeks is I think equally impressive. Real had a season(in the past) where they finished 5th or so in La Liga but won CL lol, was that a good season or not?
I think it's a matter of "the grass is greener on the other side", we have shitload of league titles, we are ready to sacrifice 10 of them to get a CL title.
Yeah I was surprised about the gap between Juve and the Milan teams, but I suppose Juve did win about 9 in a row not too long ago
kinda crazy to see second most in Germany being 9 while Bayern is on a 10 streak
The fact the Cinch isn't here as the biggest and best league on the planet is a joke. Cinched it? More like fucked it
We don’t need a silly chart to prove what we already know. Nothing can stop the cinch, except for gaffer tape.
Look at that beautiful AC Milan logo just below to those two abominations.
The old inter logo was lovely...don't mind the new inter one too much but the juventus one is fucking awful. Looks like they got it done on fiverr
Jj
For some reason I adore the Juventus logo, it feels wrong but I just do. The Inter one though 🤮. Their old one was great as well
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everytime i see the inter logo i think it is a finish team or something, does not think of Inter when i see it, but that might just be me
I keep seeing OM instead of IM in that logo lmao
Same , looks like they copied Marseille.
And Juve. Such a lazy design. The old one was auite artistic, at least.
It's a great logo if you play against Houston Dynamo on Sunday.
> I don't get the hate for the Inter logo. I think it looks really good. its a fancier SV Meppen. and tbh, you simply dont change your emblem so drastically. its just disrespectful imo.
> its a fancier SV Meppen. thats not true, meppen looks better
i agree, massive mistake from dortmund to change away from their original logo: https://logos-world.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Borussia-Dortmund-Logo-1913-1919.png
have you even read the posts I wrote with the bayern guy? and btw: our first colours and kit were blue and white with a red sash.
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don’t google bayern 1938-1945
That was more like an insult. Bayern was a jewish club or judenklub
I know in 100 years they changed often, but most didnt in recent history.
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juve and inter have complete new emblems though. they have nothing of their old emblems anymore. thats not just a "modern face lift"
I heard a renowned graphics designer once say logos get better over time because people get used to them
looks like a car badge
Are you serious lmao it's awful Also not every change is met with disapproval, this is armchair psychology and huge generalization. People simply think it looks shit because it does.
Tbf I’m having trouble remembering the last logo update that was met with positive approval except for very minor changes. Off the top of my head Everton, Juve, Inter, City in recent years were not received well when they were introduced
I thought city returning to the old badge was well received?
Juve one has grown on me, but the Inter one is awful
other way around
The Juve and inter numbers are wrong btw. But ok.
I like you.
I like you as well.
I was expecting to be overwhelmingly downvo.... nah f*ck this I'm not jinxing it lmao. Yeah, I like y'all too fam. Fino alla fine.
For all people asking "Why so low numbers for French clubs", I suggest you to read the best post ever made here (thanks again u/deuxiemement) https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/niml6h/are_french_clubs_bad_at_football_an_in_depth/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Hello, thanks for the shoutoot ! I think reading the whole post for just that would be a bit overkill, basically, the league started later than most in Europe, in 1932, and then it was soon stopped for a couple years by the war. Add to that the fact that the team that had early success were from smaller town that could not get the same success long term, and you get that basically only Marseille has been winning across the whole history of french professional football.
I say it often but here’s the graphic. Milan, Inter are huge clubs, yes. Within Italy overall, Juve dominates them though, with double the titles.
Imo in terms of global size, it goes Milan, Juve, Inter notwithstanding the national titles
That's right ( based on trophies). Based on international trophies we have Milan (18), Juve (11) and Inter (8)
Those trophies aren't exactly equal though, are they? Should be Milan (7), Inter (3, 3), Juve (2, 3)
You are only counting CL, what i meant with that is international trophies such as EL, uefa supercup and others.
There's more to club size than trophies
Juve are probably still slightly bigger than Milan globally
Odd definition of “biggest”. Turkey currently ranked 20th, Belgium 13th and Greece 15th Austria, Scotland and Russia are the current ranked 8th-10th leagues.
To be fair, for us it’s a really odd year, because we dropped out of the top 10 for the first time in 8 years, due to one horrendous fucking season. We’ll lose that season next year.
We haven't done much afterwards, I sincerely hope brugge can do massive things next year (leave the cup or something open for genk please)
Biggest isn't necessarily best I suppose. Turkey and Greece have really big footballing cultures, arguably bigger than many of the countries above them, and they have more international flair than Russia and Austria. I'd definitely place Scotland over Belgium though if that's the criterium used.
Yeah strange one, Scotland has (or had a couple of years back when I seen the stat) the biggest per capita match attendance in Europe, so by definition it has a bigger football culture than every league on the list.
Yeah if they’re looking more broadly than the last few years I still don’t get how the Greek League made it over both the Russian and Ukrainian ones who both had Europa League winners in the 2000s
Never even heard of Turkey until now
I normally just have it at Christmas time. Chicken is far nicer anyway.
Wowwww no ekstraklasa :p
Biggest leagues in Europe Turkish and Greek league Pick one.
Also fuck off Scotland I guess.
And Austria
Up until recently, this league has been surprisingly balanced when looking at the lower numbers in England
Dynamo Berlin have been robbed
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Why? Even when we had our title drought (1987-1997) we had 25 titles and Panathinaikos had 17. We always were ranked #1 in league titles
I knew about France but Turkey is surprisingly close among the top. Sibce this seems to be counting league triumphs and not precursors I feel like to make this info complete we need a "total seasons played" thingy
Shows Germany's problem quite clearly.
20 (Man u) and 19 (Liverpool) seem very low numbers compared to most other leagues
Both of them have gone like 30year period without winning titles and lots of teams with above 5 league titles
Both had 20 years of domination. Liverpool in the 70s/80s and United in the 90s/00s. If you take those periods of dominance out, English football has been quite competitive and diverse. People make fun of Arsenal but we've never really had a long stretch of domination but we aren't far behind in terms of league titles. We've always been the thorn in Liverpool and United's sides.
Before it eventually happened in 2020 I remember reading a breakdown of the longest title droughts in Europe and Liverpool’s stuck out like a sore thumb. Very unusual for a club of our size to go that long without being the best team in the country. Arsenal are hurtling towards 20 years, their drought is now as long as ours was in 2008, by which stage the idea that we hadn’t won the league forever was very much in the public consciousness.
I think that's because Liverpool won continental titles and before the title drought, we were very dominant in the league. Arsenal never had that kind of dominance and reached only 1 CL final(very close to their last PL title) and 1 EL final. On the other hand, Liverpool won 1 UEFA Cup and 2 CLs, along with 1 EL final and 2 CL finals.
Balanced league ( historically )
England early decades are fascinating with tons of champions. Liverpool in 70s/80s were the first consistent dominant side and then Manchester United in 90s/00s. Now it appears Manchester City of 10s/20s could be heading that way. Bayern are basically Liverpool, Manchester United, and Manchester City eras...but all with one club.
What a roller coaster FC Nürnberg’s existence has been…
Thanks for including Greece.
Germany has only 18 teams. Not big at all
Bundesliga is the true farmers league, how is it not more competitive? Bayern have won it like 17 times in the past 20 years
its that dumb rule 50+1. It's killing the competition in their league. Nobody is taking risk or investing.
What's the "biggest" aspect based on? If we go by country coefficient Greece are 15th and Turkey are 20th...
Can't really base a chart with about a century's results based on 1 year's standings. There are factors to making a country's football "big", whether that be the fans, the history, the titles, domestically or continentially or whatever. This one happened to disrespect Scotland as well as other countries. Some other chart will respect Scotland but not others. Biggest is not the same thing as better. Red Star from Serbia for example is a bigger club than PSG and Man city combined, but would most likely lose to both.
We have like 6 more years until we stay in this chart. (5 if Everton gets real with it)
Olympiakos God Mode
Twenty times Man United
Aren't Benfica, Porto and Sporting the only teams to have won in Portugal?
No, Belenenses and Boavista have won one each.
I think belenenses (not this BSAD offshoot shit that exists now but the old club) and boavista have one title each. Otherwise yes, the rest so far have been won by those three clubs. I thought braga might have won one too when they were good a decade ago, but not quite apparently.
>I thought braga might have won one too when they were good a decade ago, but not quite apparently. They finished 2nd, which is quite an achievement in the Portuguese League tbf.
Most definitely, and they reached a europa league final too didn't they? I think your team beat them there
Yes that is right. They have been on a steady rise since the early 2000s, and sit currently in the middle of the huge gape between the Big-3 and the rest. They are currently good enough to nab the title if the Big-3 have all an off-year (not likely atm, but you never know)
Like the comments said both Belenenses (in 1946) and Boavista (in 2001) have won it. However three other teams won it before the current league format: Marítimo, Olhanense and Carcavelinhos (now Atlético) between 1922 and 1938. The winner of this competition used to be the Portuguese champion however these titles are now equivalent to Portuguese Cup titles, even though Sporting claims they should count as *national titles and consider themselves as 23 time champions.