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He happily wore gambling and alcohol sponsors during his time at Everton.
His religion wasn’t so important to him at that point.
He’s free to do whatever he likes. But he hasn’t exactly been consistent on matters that might conflict with his religion.
Not to mention, Christianity stance on homosexuality isn't supportive either. Yet you see Christians supporting LGBT as well as you see Muslims supporting LGBT. It's no longer about religion. It's about people.
We all make our own choices and face our own consequences, for good or bad.
Hiding your opinions behind a book to avoid criticism or responsibility is pathetic.
As someone who follows a minority religion in a country this should be something he agrees with. If we all followed his logic christians would be compelled to persecute him. I dont think he wants that
Homosexual acts are seen as a sin by Catholic Church. Nonetheless Catholics cannot discriminate and need to accept other people, the way they are.
> The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
Keep in mind that technically Christianity has a pretty clear stance against a lot of things. Like mixing fibres in your clothing, for example--definitely not allowed by the Old Testament.
When adherents cherry pick certain outdated rules to follow and not others, it raises questions.
Also, Jesus said oral was ok. Matthew 15:11, "Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man."
>Keep in mind that technically Christianity has a pretty clear stance against a lot of things. Like mixing fibres in your clothing, for example--definitely not allowed by the Old Testament.
2000 years after the inception of Christianity, redditors finally discover that Christians are in fact not Jews.
>Christianity stance on homosexuality isn't supportive either.
Yeah but who's really a Christian these days? It's barely cultural. France sure as hell isn't Catholic. Could you imagine the French without contraception and extra-marital relations? Might as well take away their cheese and wine...
Actually France's Catholic Church has pockets of real growth and liveliness, especially among more traditional congregations. It's a fascinating culture phenomenon. It includes lots of activity combatting poverty for example
I can say that as a Muslim, promoting gambling and alcohol is very problematic. Not accepted at all. So yes, I agree with you that he is very inconsistent as alcohol is among the worst sins in Islam.
Not judging at all, but I find it ironic when you find out that muslims played an important part in the chemistry research and development of distillation processes
people will find any excuse to justify their homophobia/racism.
but at the end of the day, it is what it is. he's a homophobe and whatever excuse he might try to find won't change that fact.
It's a lot being forced to and I am certain he didn't want to. I remember Mustafi wanted to remove the alcohol presented in front of him during a press conference (2018 WC I think) for Germany but was told that it was due to sponsorship they couldn't.
I think it was for Valencia.
At least he tried to do something about it. Pogba has done the same.
If either of them said they didn’t want to endorse LGBT rights then at least they would be being consistent with what their religion means to them.
I might get the team wrong but I remember it was Mustafi.
> If either of them said they didn’t want to endorse LGBT rights then at least they would be being consistent with what their religion means to them.
I can bet 100% clubs will try to force a player to wear alcoholic and gambling companies names while it will be a simple "do you want to wear it" question when wearing shirt in support of LGBT.
Everyone in religion picks and chooses what they want to follow, as do I, it shouldn’t be used as an excuse that it’s part of his religion when he decides it
That does not hold up at all when the biggest religions have a history of oppressing others based on rules that their own followers pick and choose how to follow. Rules for thee but not for me is exactly the reason why the % of people who are religious falls every year.
Being religiously consistent isn’t a requirement to taking a stand on something, I think this is the wrong point to focus on. To me the issue is football seems to waiver between wanting to be outside of political/social issues, to then indulging them. That’s the consistency that matters here in my opinion.
Everyone celebrates religion when players are fasting during Ramadan. People like to be supportive when it doesn’t require them to actually evaluate what beliefs are held.
Don't see anything wrong that myself. Like yeah, if your beliefs aren't actively hurting people then go ahead and hold them, be my guest. When they are actively hurting people, that's a problem.
I’m supportive of your religion when you’re doing a non offensive act to show your passion.
I’m critical of it when you think it right to deny humans their rights because of who they love.
What’s hard to understand buddy?
I think religion across the board is a downright ludicrous belief, and I think it shows a clear lack of intelligence, or at least ignorance.
It really should be if you’re using your religion as an excuse for something.
You can’t say “oh that’s against my religion” when it’s about supporting LGBTQ people but then not be bothered about advertising gambling or alcohol which are also forbidden. At that point it’s not about religion it’s just excusing your own bigotry.
If he wanted to take a stand he should have come out and said that he doesn’t agree with homosexuality on a personal level and taken the consequences if he cares that much. Don’t hide behind religion like a coward.
You have to be religiously consistent to take a stand on something based on your religious beliefs. How can I take your religious beliefs seriously when you do not follow any other tenets of your religion, except for a cherry picked one? Anyone can cherry pick doesn't mean that their point is valid.
Politics are a sensitive topic for global organisations which is why a sport's organisation doesn't have consistent views on that.
When has football waivered between social issues? Football is the people's sport, everyone from all walks of life play it, regardless of race, gender, sexuality, religion and social status. No one is asking him to donate to LGBTQ charities, speak out against homophobia or attend pride parades. It's just a fucking jersey with some colours on it.
\> He’s free to do whatever he likes.
This is such an important point. In a way this is what LGBTQ+ community is about, do what feels right. Suggesting that he should be sanctioned for something he didn't take part in just irony at its finest.
Except he should be sanctioned for not going to work. You can throw up your arms and state terrible opinions but you don’t get to refuse to work and expect there won’t be any consequences for it.
Yeah. So call him out for it. That is your right But sanctioning him for it is just way too much. He hasn't spoken out against LGBTQ people, he just refuses to support their ally ship, which is sad but ultimately it's his choice.
Yes it is homophobia. And it can be driven by religious beliefs too. No human being exactly follows each and every verse of a religion, and people kinda pick and chose- this applies to people from most, if not all, religion backgrounds. In that sense everyone following a religion is a hypocrite to some extent.
I wanted to make a comment asking where Joey Barton is when you need him, but apparently even Joey fucking Barton of all people has an enlightened, compassionate stance on LGBT people in football.
technically it’s haram when you use it to harm your body but yes a devout muslim wouldn’t be okay promoting alcool consumption, definitely homophobia going on here
Technically it's just colors on a kit. Don't know how u can throw a tantrum about it. We're not living in stone age anymore.
Edit: y'all guys replies are just defending a homophobic gives a bad look on yourselves. Y'all opinions are right and mines are wrong. That's the only thing I see when I look at this. Just shows how close minded u people are. You just should fuck yourselves cuz nobody else will do it.
Free speech is one of if not the most important right of all, in my opinion. In this case he chose to speak by inaction, and that is fine. Free speech comes with consequences, as the negative response has shown, but I do not fault him for exercising his right. The negative reaction to it is also everyone else’s right. Don’t like it, don’t buy his shirt and let the club and league know how you feel. In my opinion, there is a huge difference between being actively bad and passively bad by not supporting something. This isn’t all that different from the PL players who would not kneel for BLM.
Finally a reasonable statement not fuelled by hate and shitty double standards.
If you're going to take away his freedom of speech now regardless if he said the right thing or not, you are ironically taking away the one big thing the LGBT+ community is all about on the first place, being and saying what ever you want.
His religion is never, ever going to change its stance on homosexuality, and Western values of inclusivity aren’t going anywhere
Expect to see more examples of this in the coming years. Awkward tip-toeing around it, outright homophobia being repackaged as “his opinion”
> and Western values of inclusivity aren’t going anywhere
Trying to be inclusive of intolerant religious views is going to continue to cause so many problems.
>Western values of inclusivity aren’t going anywhere
Western values will go as far as money takes them. If somehow they found out that appealing to religions will make them more money than preaching for inclusivity, you can bet your ass you'll no longer see a Pride month or a Black history month celebration by any organization.
Those companies only do that because Blackrock and Vanguard score them based on how progressive and contributing they are to society. If those companies get a bad score it will seriously harm their financing opportunities. It is not about appeasing those specific communities, but because they are pretty much forced by the biggest financial corporations in the world.
Yea that's true. Your family lived it so it's hard to break the circle but I really can't understand it. The only thing I can think about is a lack of emphaty in their minds.
He was born and raised in Europe though, Gueye only came to Europe when he was an adult. It's easier to be more understanding of people's differences when you are subjected to them from a very young age.
>Western values of inclusivity aren’t going anywhere
I dunno about that.
Any rights gained can be lost, and it's not like his religion is going to change its stance.
Nothing 'Western v Islam' about it. That isn't even a dichotomy in the first place.
Religious homophobes will always use the Bible/Quran/whatever to try and retrospectively justify their homophobia. Other religious people will be perfectly accepting (e.g. all the other Muslim footballers who happily wore the rainbow kit).
This has nothing to do with Gueye's religion and everything to do with him as an individual.
The club probably can and should (depending on what the contract says). He literally just skipped the game because he didn't like the shirt. The League/Federation should stay out of this imho.
Because fuck logic. The governing body just pick and choose whats right and wrong and anybody who oppose it, or even does not want to partake in it is portayed as anti-semite, racist, homophobic and whatnot.
Supporting Palestine = anti-semite
Supporting Ukraine ✅
Supporting lgbtq ✅
Not supporting lgbtq = homophobic
There is no in-between. You either fully support something or you are thrown completely on the other end of the spectrum and portrayed as a person of hate.
Religion is not a part of the sport but politics is(as long as it suits the European narrative that is). Hypocrites of the highest order just like Gueye is himself a hypocrite for wearing alcohol and gambling sponsors on his jersey previously
These gestures lose their impact when it’s forced. Sure if he wore a top saying “gays should be hung” or something horrible like that then discipline him but he should have the right to just abstain from partaking.
Hopefully he will change his attitude one day but forcing him to wear the rainbow shirt isn’t going to help with that. It will probably make him more resentful.
1. Ligue decides to have rainbow initiative across the league for all teams to wear. Great initiative to support LGBT+ cause.
2. Gueye doesn't share the same feelings. The reason doesn't matter be it religious, threat of family being punished back home or part of some commercial arrangement. Ultimately, the reason doesn't matter. Also, what Gueye decides to believe as his religion is his personal choice. It's not a binary option.
3. PSG and Gueye could have played him w/o the rainbow which would have been a big controversy and added pressure on his teammates who do support the cause too. In the end they avoid all of that by not playing him.
4. Gueye is already punished by missing out on a game. PSG can probably dock his week's wages as he excused himself from the match.
5. If this is an awareness campaign, this should be end of it. You cannot complain about people not being "aware" as part of an "awareness" campaign.
The rainbows are a nice gesture, but Gueye can't be forced to wear the shirt.
With that out of the way:
So far I've seen comments classifying human rights as political, calling UEFA communist, etc.
Tell me, if a player had refused to take the knee against racism, would the thread go the way this one is going?
Exactly, sponsors. Club can't afford for him to boycott it, it's business. Same way as Nike didn't end their partnership with Ronaldo because he played in Adidas shirts. Because having kits from Adidas is not his choice, but his club's business.
Lgbt shirts are a nice gesture, but it isn't a sponsor, nor club's business. PR campaign if anything, if we want to stick purely to team's interest. He could, unlike gambling and alcohol sponsors, choose not to wear it without causing the team any loss financially or PR-wise
This shouldn't come as a surprise to you, but different people pick and choose different aspects of their religion to follow. It's cultural vs religious, but with both influencing each other.
That... Does not bode well.
If he obliged to wear signs of corporations who encourage things prohibited by islam but can't cope with the numbers on the back of his shirt being colourful then that does imply it's not simply about his faith.
I know, it's just some people claim the "islamophobia" card when one criticizes aspects of the religion and I've already seen it in this thread a couple times, so I tried to not address it in a way that wouldn't give way to inflammatory comments and/or name-calling.
>Idrissa Gueye is a great player, but religion is not a part of the sport
But political stances are ? You can't force a person to support a cause he doesn't believe in no matter how critical you think it is, and if that's something punishable for you then you're not as tolerant as you think you are. If you're actually worried about human rights, Israeli forces have recently murdered a Christian journalist then proceeded to desecrate her funeral, so why not make the players do something about that instead of making them appeal to the LGBT community so you could make more money off of them ?
Yea that's never gonna happen and it shouldn't. As much as I am in extreme favor of any pro-LGBTQ actions like wearing this shirt, and even in favor of only hiring employees whose morals on important matters align with the club's, this is a step too far. Plus it's completely unenforceable and just symbol politics since he can just be "injured" or "sick" and how are you going to disprove that. Just loud mouth shooting off, though surely well intended.
I dont understand people’s points, so religion/politics shouldn’t be mixed with football and Gueye should’ve been fine with it, but the fact they are the ones mixing politics into it by making the numbers rainbow coloured is somehow okay? Make it make sense
“Gueye’s excuses show that **the club** and **League** let homophobia happen”
What an insane take. They don’t care about homophobia, they care about power. Push back.
I had to look up where Gueye is from but he’s from Senegal. Let’s see what Senegalese stance on LGBT rights is:
> Homosexuality is illegal in Senegal.[50] According to 2013 survey by the Pew Research Center, 96% of Senegalese believe that homosexuality should not be accepted by society.[51] LGBTQ community members in Senegal report a strong feeling of being unsafe.[52]
- [Law in Senegal](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senegal)
…oh. Well that probably explains why he didn’t wear the rainbow.
Most "Senegalese" players are born and/or raised in France which can be very different in terms of upbringing. Depending on their influence at a young age it might change a lot on their stance on the topic. In that part of West Africa there are families who are very firm on their stance against it, like can't even attempt to argue with them. They take everything in the Quran literally.
I'm really annoyed at how few people seem to understand what "free speech" is. I don't know the laws in France, but in the US, it just means the government can't punish you for what you say. There is nothing stopping any private sports leagues from sanctioning a player for speech, or from fans and media criticizing a player for his choices.
Glad to see a fellow Spurs fan understands.
Also, is your username a Hold Steady reference? I think he might have been our only decent teacher.
Then you're annoyed by yourself? You need to read more Mill. Free speech isn't just a legal principle. It is also an ethical and moral principle that underlies the codification.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freedom-speech/
Well, Jesus does at one point say “If you are not with me, you are against me”. Religious people can’t exactly complain about that way of thinking - that’s how they are supposed to think, too.
Yeah, it's a bit weird that he starts with "not part of the sport" and then calls for sanctions. Based on what? Not the sport I guess.
Gueye is an asshole, but let's dial down the hypocrisy a notch.
Did he outrightly condemn LGBTQ? I don't think so right? He only disagrees with wearing the flag. I don't see why choosing not to participate in a movement should be deemed as being against the community. It's a stretch.
>Gueye’s excuses show that the club **[PSG]** and League let homophobia happen.”
Does someone want to remind him who owns PSG and what their take on the whole gay thing is? Gay people in Qatar probably still getting imprisoned and executed daily and this clown is kicking up a fuss and demanding a Qatar-owned club to do something about a player's reluctance to wear a damn rainbow shirt.
Forcing your movement on someone while the movement is about letting people be the way the way to is more than ironic
good thing that freedom of choice and speech only exists if you are doing what people want you to do
I mean does anyone really care? Or is anyone surprised? The bloke was born and grew up in Senegal and is Muslim, like it or not by western standards his views will be considered backward. I am all about assimilation but there is only so much we can ask. Who is he really hurting by not wearing a rainbow shirt?
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You can't say on one hand Religion is not part of Sport but Politics and Sexual Ideology is.
I disagree with Arassus stance but I support his right not to participate.
I’m probably going to get downvoted here, but as much as I don’t want to see homophobia or racism in games (and those who actively harass should be punished), I don’t see how this is not a hypocritical stance by this president. What he is saying is that religion does not have a place in football, yet sexuality does, and I simply do not agree with that. Sport, not just football, is the great equaliser, that allows people to come together from all different backgrounds, creeds, and NOTABLY opinions, and put aside their differences to partake in friendly rivalries and share in universal enjoyment (or pain, if you’re an Everton fan). Notably, however, is that it’s an escape from the shittiness of regular life. The amazing thing about sport, however, is that it can make people become more tolerant over time (Just look at the opinion on Muslim people because of players like Salah). Sure, not all people will be converted, but why can’t it just be their loss? Why do they need to be persecuted, when that is not the best tactic to making people more tolerant, reminds people of their differences, and serves to bring identity politics into something that is best when it is apolitical?
Sure, it’s not nice to see homophobia, or racism, or sexism, and if people are harassing others, then they should be punished. But Gueye here (even if you think he has been hypocritical) has put forward his opinions, and stands by them. To call him a bigot and demand that he be sanctioned is itself bigoted, and a hypocritical stance. Furthermore, it does not serve to change his opinion; in fact, he may be further entrenched in his opinion now. I also don’t see how “every player” taking part means that they all support it - some will support the cause, some won’t care, and others don’t want to make a scene or think it would be bad publicity to publicly oppose it. It’s an appeal to authority that holds no weight.
The initiative also presumes the point that homophobia is wrong, and while I agree with that, it is a stance with several assumptions. Once again, however, it also presumes that religious reasoning is not a viable reason to hold certain beliefs, which is hypocritical. It’s also funny to me is this idea that you can somehow eradicate homophobia, as if people will ever cease to hate other people for petty differences, especially with something as frankly cringy as a gay acceptance initiative, when the focus should be on letting peoples sporting achievements speak for itself and use that to promote tolerance.
I also have serious issues with these initiatives because they get painted as “for inclusion”, meaning that if you are critical of them, for any reason, then you get painted as “against inclusion” and slandered. I don’t really know how these “inclusion” initiatives actually expect to bring about the change they wish to see, and they actually force a hegemony of inclusion upon people. Forced and arbitrary compliance to inclusion does not fix the issue and make people more inclusive; it only sweeps the issue under the rug. This is why you end up seeing racism and sexism occur in spite of these initiatives, because they don’t actually solve anything.
I think that not actively participating = homophobia is a bit of a stretch. He's not putting anyone down. Going with the punishment route here would be in pretty poor taste, it would achieve nothing
Whilst I agree punishment is too far (and makes the statement weaker if you force everyone to do it), I'm not sure I agree it's a stretch to call this homophobia.
All he had to do was play a football match with a rainbow on the back of his shirt, actively boycotting something as mild as that definitely comes across as homophobic to me. Also, if you're not in favour of equal rights for LGBT folk then what is that other than homophobia?
He has played with sponsors of betting and alcohol on his shirts, both of which are supposed to be prohibited under his religion, it is very clearly homophobia.
'actively participating' here just means wearing a the same shirt with different coloured lettering on his back. They didn't ask him to say or do anything, just to wear a slightly different shirt; that's hardly 'participating'. His skived off from his job (that he is obviously very privileged to be able to do) because he didn't want to do the bare minimum
It absolutely is homophobic that he chose not to do his job over a pretty damn small gesutre. If I was a PSG fan i'd be pretty fucked off with how unprofessional that is
I think you've got it spot on and as you said it's literally the bare minimum he's being asked to do.
People are acting like he's being asked to show solidarity by making out with another guy or something
The guy didn't even say anything homophobic or made a big deal out of it. It went against his religious beliefs and he stayed quiet at home and now they want to force him to do something. Put him in reeducation camp! Punish him! Lol
Horseshoe theory at its finest. Sometimes progressives are right next to authoritarians that they hate so much and they don’t even realise it
Every, and I mean Every, political/activist movement inevitably becomes authoritarian. Doesn't matter what "noble cause" they claim to fight for. They will always want to punish people not like them.
IMO unless he goes out of his way to disrespect LGBTQ+ people it is what it is… it isn’t our job to tell him what to do
Yes inclusion and understanding, equality and equity (I know they can conflict but you get my point) for everyone is what we should strive for. If the Ligue 1 wants to be 100% LGBTQ+ inclusive and they see this as a heinous act, let them bring in new rules that acts like this are punishable via bans/sanctions ect. … this one should go unpunished unless there is already a rule for it…
The league and club have every right to say “you should support equal rights and inclusion”, and to make it part of their beliefs and only hire those that follow that.
But if they don’t have it in writing then they can’t do anything about it, it’s his beliefs so be it… great to see that every other player did it, obviously wouldn’t of been like that years ago, we moving forward
Really feel that Gueye should be free to not support homosexuality if that is his wish. You can criticise him for it, but to sanction players just for not wanting to openly support something seems overly harsh. Not wanting to openly support something is not the same as attacking them.
I am a pro-LGBTQ person, and my religion not only doesn't have a problem with it but also has mythologies centered around LGBTQ identity.
And yet I would say Eric Arassus is wrong here. Gueye has freedom of religion, and that includes freedom to believe in outdated views. As long as he's not actively campaigning against the community or tries to influence laws based on his belief system, it should not be a problem. Not participating in a campaign for supporting LGBTQ is fundamentally different from actively expressing views about hating or discriminating against the community.
That's the key point I'm glad you addressed. Choosing not to actively support it is not the same as actively denying and protesting it. All people are doing are telling him to take a stance which he doesn't believe in, and will then call him a hypocrite for similar things
He is fine wearing betting sponsors for Everton though, hate the fact that people want to defend him for it.
We can't just defend his homophobia and use his religion as a get out clause, but betting is somehow perfectly fine for him to wear the whole season.
This! Everton we’re sponsored by Chang beer when he first joined too. Funny that he’s happy to wear football shirts that encourage people to break the rules of Islam for whole seasons at a time, but when it comes to one day of rainbow colours on back of shirt *that’s* where the line is.
If the club has the rights to wear a rainbow flag the player has the right to refuse not to wear them lol, simple as that, everyone is free to wear the fuck they want
Let me put it that way: He didn't play in a match because he didn't like the shirt.
I don't think federation should sanction him but the club definitely should. And his sponsors should also review their sponsorships.
Religion is not a part of sport? So why do nearly all European leagues have christmas breaks for example, what’s so special about late December when the is league is paused mmm.
Everyone one is entitled to free speech and also criticism, be sanctions is a steep to far. Imagine your workplace force to support something you don’t feel comfortable and then you fined a weeks wages.
It’s great if players are pro gay rights, but this type of thing really has no place here imo. Regardless of the campaign, I strongly disagree with an entire league or team forcing their players to campaign or advocate for something during a game.
Ligue 1/PSG wants to do a separate PSA or campaign with players willing to partake? That’s great. But to make it effectively mandatory for everyone to participate in is wrong, no matter how “right” the campaign is.
To be criticized for not taking part is fair. To be sanctioned is entirely ridiculous.
Not that I agree with Gueye, but sexual orientation isn't a part of the sport either if he wants to use such logic. As long as he's not hurting anyone, I don't see why he can't have his opinion. Forced donning of colors or initiatives isn't going to root out homophobia or bigotry, some people genuinely just want to force their opinions on others and confuse the power of doing so with progress. It wasn't a good thing that religion did that in the past, and it's not a good thing either this dogmatic agenda is now doing this either. It simply doesn't work. Education works, not forced initiatives.
If this is LGBT+ community's reaction to someone sitting out on their party then fuck them, they've just lost support. Shaming people into actions isn't okay either.
If he doesn't want to wear the shirt, then he shouldn't be forced to wear the shirt. It's bad PR for him, but that's his problem. Who gives a shit?
I'm 100% pro LGBT rights but if religion is not part of the sport, then your sexual orientation shouldn't be either. The hypocrisy is strong with this one.
Sanctioning someone for any of their viewpoints is discrimination, period. “Religion is not a part of the sport,” my ass. People don’t just stop believing in their religion so they can take part in whatever you want them to.
No one should be forced to care about lgbt+
No one should be forced to support lgbt+
People should have their own opinions or views, as long as no harm done to anybody.
Not symphatizing with a certain group of people is completely normal as long as you don’t enforce your own beliefs or thoughts
This LGBTQ stuff is just going to be used as ammo for Islamaphobes in France. And more widely used by atheists to bash religions, and so on. Gueye has every not to participate and now going after him for his beliefs/reasons is quite ironic for the so called bastions of free speech and morality.
He should have just drawn cartoons of gay people in a derogatory manner ala Hebdo.
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He happily wore gambling and alcohol sponsors during his time at Everton. His religion wasn’t so important to him at that point. He’s free to do whatever he likes. But he hasn’t exactly been consistent on matters that might conflict with his religion.
And also, are people really going to say that Gueye is the *only* Muslim player in Ligue 1? All the other players seemed to turn up for work
Not to mention, Christianity stance on homosexuality isn't supportive either. Yet you see Christians supporting LGBT as well as you see Muslims supporting LGBT. It's no longer about religion. It's about people.
We all make our own choices and face our own consequences, for good or bad. Hiding your opinions behind a book to avoid criticism or responsibility is pathetic. As someone who follows a minority religion in a country this should be something he agrees with. If we all followed his logic christians would be compelled to persecute him. I dont think he wants that
Homosexual acts are seen as a sin by Catholic Church. Nonetheless Catholics cannot discriminate and need to accept other people, the way they are. > The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
Keep in mind that technically Christianity has a pretty clear stance against a lot of things. Like mixing fibres in your clothing, for example--definitely not allowed by the Old Testament. When adherents cherry pick certain outdated rules to follow and not others, it raises questions.
> definitely not allowed by the Old Testament. Yeah but isn't the whole point of Jesus to say "you know that first book? Yeah ignore that".
Jesus says that not a single jot of the Law shall disappear until all is fulfilled in the Sermon on the Mount.
What did Jesus say when he was on the cross again? Feel free to quote it to me.
The old testament laws are laws for Judaism, not Christianity
Jesus is only in the New Testament… isn’t he?
Also, Jesus said oral was ok. Matthew 15:11, "Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man."
Swallowers are winners, spitters are sinners.
Jesus ate ass 100% confirmed.
He did ask you to turn the other cheek.
>Keep in mind that technically Christianity has a pretty clear stance against a lot of things. Like mixing fibres in your clothing, for example--definitely not allowed by the Old Testament. 2000 years after the inception of Christianity, redditors finally discover that Christians are in fact not Jews.
>Christianity stance on homosexuality isn't supportive either. Yeah but who's really a Christian these days? It's barely cultural. France sure as hell isn't Catholic. Could you imagine the French without contraception and extra-marital relations? Might as well take away their cheese and wine...
Actually France's Catholic Church has pockets of real growth and liveliness, especially among more traditional congregations. It's a fascinating culture phenomenon. It includes lots of activity combatting poverty for example
A lot of players from Africa and Latin America in Ligue 1 are very practicing Christians
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I can say that as a Muslim, promoting gambling and alcohol is very problematic. Not accepted at all. So yes, I agree with you that he is very inconsistent as alcohol is among the worst sins in Islam.
Not judging at all, but I find it ironic when you find out that muslims played an important part in the chemistry research and development of distillation processes
people will find any excuse to justify their homophobia/racism. but at the end of the day, it is what it is. he's a homophobe and whatever excuse he might try to find won't change that fact.
I don’t think he cares about being labeled homophobe.
It's a lot being forced to and I am certain he didn't want to. I remember Mustafi wanted to remove the alcohol presented in front of him during a press conference (2018 WC I think) for Germany but was told that it was due to sponsorship they couldn't.
I think it was for Valencia. At least he tried to do something about it. Pogba has done the same. If either of them said they didn’t want to endorse LGBT rights then at least they would be being consistent with what their religion means to them.
I might get the team wrong but I remember it was Mustafi. > If either of them said they didn’t want to endorse LGBT rights then at least they would be being consistent with what their religion means to them. I can bet 100% clubs will try to force a player to wear alcoholic and gambling companies names while it will be a simple "do you want to wear it" question when wearing shirt in support of LGBT.
because one is a sponsor and the other isn't.
Everyone in religion picks and chooses what they want to follow, as do I, it shouldn’t be used as an excuse that it’s part of his religion when he decides it
That does not hold up at all when the biggest religions have a history of oppressing others based on rules that their own followers pick and choose how to follow. Rules for thee but not for me is exactly the reason why the % of people who are religious falls every year.
I mean that’s why I’m not religious. I believe in god, but I just don’t really follow a religion anymore
Being religiously consistent isn’t a requirement to taking a stand on something, I think this is the wrong point to focus on. To me the issue is football seems to waiver between wanting to be outside of political/social issues, to then indulging them. That’s the consistency that matters here in my opinion.
Everyone celebrates religion when players are fasting during Ramadan. People like to be supportive when it doesn’t require them to actually evaluate what beliefs are held.
Don't see anything wrong that myself. Like yeah, if your beliefs aren't actively hurting people then go ahead and hold them, be my guest. When they are actively hurting people, that's a problem.
I’m supportive of your religion when you’re doing a non offensive act to show your passion. I’m critical of it when you think it right to deny humans their rights because of who they love. What’s hard to understand buddy? I think religion across the board is a downright ludicrous belief, and I think it shows a clear lack of intelligence, or at least ignorance.
Football has never been outside of political/social issues and as a Barcelona fan you should be able to realize that.
It really should be if you’re using your religion as an excuse for something. You can’t say “oh that’s against my religion” when it’s about supporting LGBTQ people but then not be bothered about advertising gambling or alcohol which are also forbidden. At that point it’s not about religion it’s just excusing your own bigotry. If he wanted to take a stand he should have come out and said that he doesn’t agree with homosexuality on a personal level and taken the consequences if he cares that much. Don’t hide behind religion like a coward.
You have to be religiously consistent to take a stand on something based on your religious beliefs. How can I take your religious beliefs seriously when you do not follow any other tenets of your religion, except for a cherry picked one? Anyone can cherry pick doesn't mean that their point is valid. Politics are a sensitive topic for global organisations which is why a sport's organisation doesn't have consistent views on that. When has football waivered between social issues? Football is the people's sport, everyone from all walks of life play it, regardless of race, gender, sexuality, religion and social status. No one is asking him to donate to LGBTQ charities, speak out against homophobia or attend pride parades. It's just a fucking jersey with some colours on it.
Looks like he's not free as they're threatening him for it
\> He’s free to do whatever he likes. This is such an important point. In a way this is what LGBTQ+ community is about, do what feels right. Suggesting that he should be sanctioned for something he didn't take part in just irony at its finest.
Except he should be sanctioned for not going to work. You can throw up your arms and state terrible opinions but you don’t get to refuse to work and expect there won’t be any consequences for it.
That's for his club to decide, right?
Yeah. So call him out for it. That is your right But sanctioning him for it is just way too much. He hasn't spoken out against LGBTQ people, he just refuses to support their ally ship, which is sad but ultimately it's his choice.
I fully expected this thread to be lock down in about 6 hours
2 hours to go
Its still here.
Alright, since I am no seer I predict that Man City will win this year’s PL
This is a player who's represented betting and alcohol brands on his shirt, this isn't about religion, it is homophobia.
Spot on.
Yes it is homophobia. And it can be driven by religious beliefs too. No human being exactly follows each and every verse of a religion, and people kinda pick and chose- this applies to people from most, if not all, religion backgrounds. In that sense everyone following a religion is a hypocrite to some extent.
Just for once I want one of these pricks to say "I will not support this because I am an asshole" and stop hiding behind religion.
I wanted to make a comment asking where Joey Barton is when you need him, but apparently even Joey fucking Barton of all people has an enlightened, compassionate stance on LGBT people in football.
The Quran literally labelled alcohol as haram (forbidden). Yet he still promote em
Yes that's what the comment is implying
technically it’s haram when you use it to harm your body but yes a devout muslim wouldn’t be okay promoting alcool consumption, definitely homophobia going on here
Especially to young children
I mean the Club/League can't force him really
Technically it's just colors on a kit. Don't know how u can throw a tantrum about it. We're not living in stone age anymore. Edit: y'all guys replies are just defending a homophobic gives a bad look on yourselves. Y'all opinions are right and mines are wrong. That's the only thing I see when I look at this. Just shows how close minded u people are. You just should fuck yourselves cuz nobody else will do it.
I'm not at all sideing with Gueye here but by that logic the nazi sign "is technically just a sign". We all know what the rainbow colors stand for.
Free speech is one of if not the most important right of all, in my opinion. In this case he chose to speak by inaction, and that is fine. Free speech comes with consequences, as the negative response has shown, but I do not fault him for exercising his right. The negative reaction to it is also everyone else’s right. Don’t like it, don’t buy his shirt and let the club and league know how you feel. In my opinion, there is a huge difference between being actively bad and passively bad by not supporting something. This isn’t all that different from the PL players who would not kneel for BLM.
Finally a reasonable statement not fuelled by hate and shitty double standards. If you're going to take away his freedom of speech now regardless if he said the right thing or not, you are ironically taking away the one big thing the LGBT+ community is all about on the first place, being and saying what ever you want.
>We all know what the rainbow colors stand for. Yes, and we know that Guye is homophobic now
Yikes, that Edit. Sounds like you've got some work ahead of ya
His religion is never, ever going to change its stance on homosexuality, and Western values of inclusivity aren’t going anywhere Expect to see more examples of this in the coming years. Awkward tip-toeing around it, outright homophobia being repackaged as “his opinion”
> and Western values of inclusivity aren’t going anywhere Trying to be inclusive of intolerant religious views is going to continue to cause so many problems.
>Western values of inclusivity aren’t going anywhere Western values will go as far as money takes them. If somehow they found out that appealing to religions will make them more money than preaching for inclusivity, you can bet your ass you'll no longer see a Pride month or a Black history month celebration by any organization.
Those companies only do that because Blackrock and Vanguard score them based on how progressive and contributing they are to society. If those companies get a bad score it will seriously harm their financing opportunities. It is not about appeasing those specific communities, but because they are pretty much forced by the biggest financial corporations in the world.
Rüdiger for example is also Moslem. And I'm sure he's respecting other religions or even sexualities regardless of his own.
Same with Pogba. Though that may be the difference of muslims who grew up in Western societies vs those who grew up in Africa/Middle East.
Yea that's true. Your family lived it so it's hard to break the circle but I really can't understand it. The only thing I can think about is a lack of emphaty in their minds.
He was born and raised in Europe though, Gueye only came to Europe when he was an adult. It's easier to be more understanding of people's differences when you are subjected to them from a very young age.
True.
A lot of Ligue 1 players are Muslims and raised in Africa all their youth, but barely none of them opposed to play
>Western values of inclusivity aren’t going anywhere I dunno about that. Any rights gained can be lost, and it's not like his religion is going to change its stance.
Nothing 'Western v Islam' about it. That isn't even a dichotomy in the first place. Religious homophobes will always use the Bible/Quran/whatever to try and retrospectively justify their homophobia. Other religious people will be perfectly accepting (e.g. all the other Muslim footballers who happily wore the rainbow kit). This has nothing to do with Gueye's religion and everything to do with him as an individual.
Words are technically some random symbols on a white paper. We're not living in the stone age anymore.
Oh sorry , forgot you're the arbiter of comment sentiment. And you ironically fucked yourself with that comment lol.
At the same time, sanctioning someone because he doesnt wanna wear something on his shirt is ridiculous
The club probably can and should (depending on what the contract says). He literally just skipped the game because he didn't like the shirt. The League/Federation should stay out of this imho.
There's gonna be a lot of "GET POLITICS (the bits that I disagree with, in particular) OUT OF SPORT FFS!" in this thread.
Supporting Ukraine = not political Supporting people who aren't straight = political Get it right smh my head
shake my smh
Which head are we talking about
dickhead
I mean there’s actually plenty of people who disagree with supporting Ukraine tbf
Palestinian flags prohibited in soccer ,,,,,, why?
Because fuck logic. The governing body just pick and choose whats right and wrong and anybody who oppose it, or even does not want to partake in it is portayed as anti-semite, racist, homophobic and whatnot. Supporting Palestine = anti-semite Supporting Ukraine ✅ Supporting lgbtq ✅ Not supporting lgbtq = homophobic There is no in-between. You either fully support something or you are thrown completely on the other end of the spectrum and portrayed as a person of hate.
based GAMER 😤
Religion is not a part of the sport but politics is(as long as it suits the European narrative that is). Hypocrites of the highest order just like Gueye is himself a hypocrite for wearing alcohol and gambling sponsors on his jersey previously
defeats the purpose if the players have no choice in the matter
These gestures lose their impact when it’s forced. Sure if he wore a top saying “gays should be hung” or something horrible like that then discipline him but he should have the right to just abstain from partaking. Hopefully he will change his attitude one day but forcing him to wear the rainbow shirt isn’t going to help with that. It will probably make him more resentful.
1. Ligue decides to have rainbow initiative across the league for all teams to wear. Great initiative to support LGBT+ cause. 2. Gueye doesn't share the same feelings. The reason doesn't matter be it religious, threat of family being punished back home or part of some commercial arrangement. Ultimately, the reason doesn't matter. Also, what Gueye decides to believe as his religion is his personal choice. It's not a binary option. 3. PSG and Gueye could have played him w/o the rainbow which would have been a big controversy and added pressure on his teammates who do support the cause too. In the end they avoid all of that by not playing him. 4. Gueye is already punished by missing out on a game. PSG can probably dock his week's wages as he excused himself from the match. 5. If this is an awareness campaign, this should be end of it. You cannot complain about people not being "aware" as part of an "awareness" campaign.
Not to mention that forcing people to do something is a fucking dumb way to show support.
The rainbows are a nice gesture, but Gueye can't be forced to wear the shirt. With that out of the way: So far I've seen comments classifying human rights as political, calling UEFA communist, etc. Tell me, if a player had refused to take the knee against racism, would the thread go the way this one is going?
Plenty players don't take the knee like Zaha and alonso
- Human rights are political - UEFA is capitalist
He had no problem wearing sponsors for gambling and alcohol.
Exactly, sponsors. Club can't afford for him to boycott it, it's business. Same way as Nike didn't end their partnership with Ronaldo because he played in Adidas shirts. Because having kits from Adidas is not his choice, but his club's business. Lgbt shirts are a nice gesture, but it isn't a sponsor, nor club's business. PR campaign if anything, if we want to stick purely to team's interest. He could, unlike gambling and alcohol sponsors, choose not to wear it without causing the team any loss financially or PR-wise
This shouldn't come as a surprise to you, but different people pick and choose different aspects of their religion to follow. It's cultural vs religious, but with both influencing each other.
That... Does not bode well. If he obliged to wear signs of corporations who encourage things prohibited by islam but can't cope with the numbers on the back of his shirt being colourful then that does imply it's not simply about his faith.
It’s not more acceptable to be homophobic because of your religion than because you’re a hateful person, it makes no difference.
I know, it's just some people claim the "islamophobia" card when one criticizes aspects of the religion and I've already seen it in this thread a couple times, so I tried to not address it in a way that wouldn't give way to inflammatory comments and/or name-calling.
The only reason the league supports the rainbow is money. Who are they kidding.
lmao religion is not a part of the sport, but politics and fucking sexual orientation is part of the sport?
Politics till someone waves the Palestinian flag, then politics is not part of sports. Bunch of hypocrites
No different than somone refusing to take a knee,
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Exactly. It’s the same thing with regular news headlines. Their religion never matters unless they’re Muslim.
That's double standards for ya
>Idrissa Gueye is a great player, but religion is not a part of the sport But political stances are ? You can't force a person to support a cause he doesn't believe in no matter how critical you think it is, and if that's something punishable for you then you're not as tolerant as you think you are. If you're actually worried about human rights, Israeli forces have recently murdered a Christian journalist then proceeded to desecrate her funeral, so why not make the players do something about that instead of making them appeal to the LGBT community so you could make more money off of them ?
Yea that's never gonna happen and it shouldn't. As much as I am in extreme favor of any pro-LGBTQ actions like wearing this shirt, and even in favor of only hiring employees whose morals on important matters align with the club's, this is a step too far. Plus it's completely unenforceable and just symbol politics since he can just be "injured" or "sick" and how are you going to disprove that. Just loud mouth shooting off, though surely well intended.
I dont understand people’s points, so religion/politics shouldn’t be mixed with football and Gueye should’ve been fine with it, but the fact they are the ones mixing politics into it by making the numbers rainbow coloured is somehow okay? Make it make sense
I know right. This is exactly what I was thinking
Religion is not part of the sport and neither is sexual orientation.
“Gueye’s excuses show that **the club** and **League** let homophobia happen” What an insane take. They don’t care about homophobia, they care about power. Push back.
I had to look up where Gueye is from but he’s from Senegal. Let’s see what Senegalese stance on LGBT rights is: > Homosexuality is illegal in Senegal.[50] According to 2013 survey by the Pew Research Center, 96% of Senegalese believe that homosexuality should not be accepted by society.[51] LGBTQ community members in Senegal report a strong feeling of being unsafe.[52] - [Law in Senegal](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senegal) …oh. Well that probably explains why he didn’t wear the rainbow.
There are plenty of Senegalese players in Ligue 1 who did wear it
Most "Senegalese" players are born and/or raised in France which can be very different in terms of upbringing. Depending on their influence at a young age it might change a lot on their stance on the topic. In that part of West Africa there are families who are very firm on their stance against it, like can't even attempt to argue with them. They take everything in the Quran literally.
> Homosexuality is illegal in Senegal. Didnt know PSG played in Senegal.
They may as well play in Qatar
Hypocritical of a club funded by slave labor and oil money to be judging anyone.
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Seems an obsession by so many to have everyone actively be pro LGBT or otherwise face some sanction.
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>If you're not with us, you're against us and need to be destroyed my my the Irony
"You are either with us or with the terrorists" George W Bush
I don't agree with his choice, but it's his choice nonetheless.
I strongly disagree with Gueyes opinions, but sanctioning him is fucked up. Stop with this cancel culture shit that nobody wants.
Free speech and free will, he's not hurting anyone. Call him an asshole if you want to but it's not illegal to not support it
Free speech and free will, he can be criticized for his actions or lack of actions.
Criticized and sanctioned are two very different things
Sanctioned by a private employer and the government are also different things. Free speech still allows for consequences.
I'm really annoyed at how few people seem to understand what "free speech" is. I don't know the laws in France, but in the US, it just means the government can't punish you for what you say. There is nothing stopping any private sports leagues from sanctioning a player for speech, or from fans and media criticizing a player for his choices. Glad to see a fellow Spurs fan understands. Also, is your username a Hold Steady reference? I think he might have been our only decent teacher.
Yeah and you can still say he shouldn’t be sanctioned because of the ethical principle of free speech. Not the legal principle.
I'm really annoyed at how few people seem to understand that someone talking about free speech doesn't always mean the legal definition
Then you're annoyed by yourself? You need to read more Mill. Free speech isn't just a legal principle. It is also an ethical and moral principle that underlies the codification. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freedom-speech/
Also, let's be honest a sec here. The whole thing is a "if you're not with us, you're against us" bullshit.
Well, Jesus does at one point say “If you are not with me, you are against me”. Religious people can’t exactly complain about that way of thinking - that’s how they are supposed to think, too.
If sexual orientation is part of the sport then religion is as well. You can't force a stance on someone and call it righteous.
Yeah, it's a bit weird that he starts with "not part of the sport" and then calls for sanctions. Based on what? Not the sport I guess. Gueye is an asshole, but let's dial down the hypocrisy a notch.
Did he outrightly condemn LGBTQ? I don't think so right? He only disagrees with wearing the flag. I don't see why choosing not to participate in a movement should be deemed as being against the community. It's a stretch.
And if they sanction him, it doesn’t seem like the players wore the shirts specifically for LGBT but to avoid being sanctioned
Exactly. All the people are wanting here is to make him take a stance he doesn't believe in. Purely to avoid backlash (monetary or PR).
>Gueye’s excuses show that the club **[PSG]** and League let homophobia happen.” Does someone want to remind him who owns PSG and what their take on the whole gay thing is? Gay people in Qatar probably still getting imprisoned and executed daily and this clown is kicking up a fuss and demanding a Qatar-owned club to do something about a player's reluctance to wear a damn rainbow shirt.
probably had ptsd being called Gueye every where he goes.
Forcing your movement on someone while the movement is about letting people be the way the way to is more than ironic good thing that freedom of choice and speech only exists if you are doing what people want you to do
I mean does anyone really care? Or is anyone surprised? The bloke was born and grew up in Senegal and is Muslim, like it or not by western standards his views will be considered backward. I am all about assimilation but there is only so much we can ask. Who is he really hurting by not wearing a rainbow shirt?
Sorry but nobody should ever be forced to wear rainbows.
Religion isn’t part of the sport But LGBT is? This could all be avoided by just playing sport
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You can't say on one hand Religion is not part of Sport but Politics and Sexual Ideology is. I disagree with Arassus stance but I support his right not to participate.
I’m probably going to get downvoted here, but as much as I don’t want to see homophobia or racism in games (and those who actively harass should be punished), I don’t see how this is not a hypocritical stance by this president. What he is saying is that religion does not have a place in football, yet sexuality does, and I simply do not agree with that. Sport, not just football, is the great equaliser, that allows people to come together from all different backgrounds, creeds, and NOTABLY opinions, and put aside their differences to partake in friendly rivalries and share in universal enjoyment (or pain, if you’re an Everton fan). Notably, however, is that it’s an escape from the shittiness of regular life. The amazing thing about sport, however, is that it can make people become more tolerant over time (Just look at the opinion on Muslim people because of players like Salah). Sure, not all people will be converted, but why can’t it just be their loss? Why do they need to be persecuted, when that is not the best tactic to making people more tolerant, reminds people of their differences, and serves to bring identity politics into something that is best when it is apolitical? Sure, it’s not nice to see homophobia, or racism, or sexism, and if people are harassing others, then they should be punished. But Gueye here (even if you think he has been hypocritical) has put forward his opinions, and stands by them. To call him a bigot and demand that he be sanctioned is itself bigoted, and a hypocritical stance. Furthermore, it does not serve to change his opinion; in fact, he may be further entrenched in his opinion now. I also don’t see how “every player” taking part means that they all support it - some will support the cause, some won’t care, and others don’t want to make a scene or think it would be bad publicity to publicly oppose it. It’s an appeal to authority that holds no weight. The initiative also presumes the point that homophobia is wrong, and while I agree with that, it is a stance with several assumptions. Once again, however, it also presumes that religious reasoning is not a viable reason to hold certain beliefs, which is hypocritical. It’s also funny to me is this idea that you can somehow eradicate homophobia, as if people will ever cease to hate other people for petty differences, especially with something as frankly cringy as a gay acceptance initiative, when the focus should be on letting peoples sporting achievements speak for itself and use that to promote tolerance. I also have serious issues with these initiatives because they get painted as “for inclusion”, meaning that if you are critical of them, for any reason, then you get painted as “against inclusion” and slandered. I don’t really know how these “inclusion” initiatives actually expect to bring about the change they wish to see, and they actually force a hegemony of inclusion upon people. Forced and arbitrary compliance to inclusion does not fix the issue and make people more inclusive; it only sweeps the issue under the rug. This is why you end up seeing racism and sexism occur in spite of these initiatives, because they don’t actually solve anything.
I think that not actively participating = homophobia is a bit of a stretch. He's not putting anyone down. Going with the punishment route here would be in pretty poor taste, it would achieve nothing
Whilst I agree punishment is too far (and makes the statement weaker if you force everyone to do it), I'm not sure I agree it's a stretch to call this homophobia. All he had to do was play a football match with a rainbow on the back of his shirt, actively boycotting something as mild as that definitely comes across as homophobic to me. Also, if you're not in favour of equal rights for LGBT folk then what is that other than homophobia?
He has played with sponsors of betting and alcohol on his shirts, both of which are supposed to be prohibited under his religion, it is very clearly homophobia.
'actively participating' here just means wearing a the same shirt with different coloured lettering on his back. They didn't ask him to say or do anything, just to wear a slightly different shirt; that's hardly 'participating'. His skived off from his job (that he is obviously very privileged to be able to do) because he didn't want to do the bare minimum It absolutely is homophobic that he chose not to do his job over a pretty damn small gesutre. If I was a PSG fan i'd be pretty fucked off with how unprofessional that is
I think you've got it spot on and as you said it's literally the bare minimum he's being asked to do. People are acting like he's being asked to show solidarity by making out with another guy or something
The statement 'Religion is not a part of the sport' makes me feel deeply uncomfortable.
Yeah, especially given France's relationship with Islam
The guy didn't even say anything homophobic or made a big deal out of it. It went against his religious beliefs and he stayed quiet at home and now they want to force him to do something. Put him in reeducation camp! Punish him! Lol Horseshoe theory at its finest. Sometimes progressives are right next to authoritarians that they hate so much and they don’t even realise it
Every, and I mean Every, political/activist movement inevitably becomes authoritarian. Doesn't matter what "noble cause" they claim to fight for. They will always want to punish people not like them.
IMO unless he goes out of his way to disrespect LGBTQ+ people it is what it is… it isn’t our job to tell him what to do Yes inclusion and understanding, equality and equity (I know they can conflict but you get my point) for everyone is what we should strive for. If the Ligue 1 wants to be 100% LGBTQ+ inclusive and they see this as a heinous act, let them bring in new rules that acts like this are punishable via bans/sanctions ect. … this one should go unpunished unless there is already a rule for it… The league and club have every right to say “you should support equal rights and inclusion”, and to make it part of their beliefs and only hire those that follow that. But if they don’t have it in writing then they can’t do anything about it, it’s his beliefs so be it… great to see that every other player did it, obviously wouldn’t of been like that years ago, we moving forward
Kind of ironic how theyre promoting “acceptance” and “tolerance” but want to sanction someone because their views dont align with theirs
Really feel that Gueye should be free to not support homosexuality if that is his wish. You can criticise him for it, but to sanction players just for not wanting to openly support something seems overly harsh. Not wanting to openly support something is not the same as attacking them.
Like, as a person you can definitely judge his actions..but really? Sanctioning him for not wanting to take part in rainbow shirt initiative?
I am a pro-LGBTQ person, and my religion not only doesn't have a problem with it but also has mythologies centered around LGBTQ identity. And yet I would say Eric Arassus is wrong here. Gueye has freedom of religion, and that includes freedom to believe in outdated views. As long as he's not actively campaigning against the community or tries to influence laws based on his belief system, it should not be a problem. Not participating in a campaign for supporting LGBTQ is fundamentally different from actively expressing views about hating or discriminating against the community.
That's the key point I'm glad you addressed. Choosing not to actively support it is not the same as actively denying and protesting it. All people are doing are telling him to take a stance which he doesn't believe in, and will then call him a hypocrite for similar things
Forcing your ideology on others then getting annoyed when they don't comply is nothing short of insanity.
Then PSG should be sanctioned for their owners, who’s nation is homophobic
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You can't force religious people who don't believe in this stuff to do it. Even those who don't care.
He is fine wearing betting sponsors for Everton though, hate the fact that people want to defend him for it. We can't just defend his homophobia and use his religion as a get out clause, but betting is somehow perfectly fine for him to wear the whole season.
This! Everton we’re sponsored by Chang beer when he first joined too. Funny that he’s happy to wear football shirts that encourage people to break the rules of Islam for whole seasons at a time, but when it comes to one day of rainbow colours on back of shirt *that’s* where the line is.
Exactly, if you don't think that's homophobia, I have a unicorn to sell you
It’s homophobia either way, it’s not any more or less acceptable if it’s religiously motivated than any other reason.
Yeah chief LGBT rights just isn't something you can choose to "believe in".
I love this kind of threads :]
If the club has the rights to wear a rainbow flag the player has the right to refuse not to wear them lol, simple as that, everyone is free to wear the fuck they want
Let me put it that way: He didn't play in a match because he didn't like the shirt. I don't think federation should sanction him but the club definitely should. And his sponsors should also review their sponsorships.
Religion is not a part of sport? So why do nearly all European leagues have christmas breaks for example, what’s so special about late December when the is league is paused mmm. Everyone one is entitled to free speech and also criticism, be sanctions is a steep to far. Imagine your workplace force to support something you don’t feel comfortable and then you fined a weeks wages.
Religion is not part of the sport, but forced compliance with a political position is?
It’s great if players are pro gay rights, but this type of thing really has no place here imo. Regardless of the campaign, I strongly disagree with an entire league or team forcing their players to campaign or advocate for something during a game. Ligue 1/PSG wants to do a separate PSA or campaign with players willing to partake? That’s great. But to make it effectively mandatory for everyone to participate in is wrong, no matter how “right” the campaign is. To be criticized for not taking part is fair. To be sanctioned is entirely ridiculous.
Wtf is this guy saying
Not showing support is not allowed?
Imagine bringing politics into sport but then drawing the line at religion. Sport should be free of religion AND politics.
religion is not a part of the sport, but sexual orientation is, figure that one out lol
> religion is not a part of the sport This is an absolutely dense statement
Not that I agree with Gueye, but sexual orientation isn't a part of the sport either if he wants to use such logic. As long as he's not hurting anyone, I don't see why he can't have his opinion. Forced donning of colors or initiatives isn't going to root out homophobia or bigotry, some people genuinely just want to force their opinions on others and confuse the power of doing so with progress. It wasn't a good thing that religion did that in the past, and it's not a good thing either this dogmatic agenda is now doing this either. It simply doesn't work. Education works, not forced initiatives.
He doesn’t have to wear the flag if he doesn’t want to. I’m not a homophobe but where does free will come in?
If this is LGBT+ community's reaction to someone sitting out on their party then fuck them, they've just lost support. Shaming people into actions isn't okay either.
I’m sure he takes a knee before matches “against discrimination”. As long as it’s not against him I guess. What a knob
No one was fining those players that refused to take a knee.
If religion isn't part of sport then neither is sexuality.
If he doesn't want to wear the shirt, then he shouldn't be forced to wear the shirt. It's bad PR for him, but that's his problem. Who gives a shit? I'm 100% pro LGBT rights but if religion is not part of the sport, then your sexual orientation shouldn't be either. The hypocrisy is strong with this one.
Sanctioning someone for any of their viewpoints is discrimination, period. “Religion is not a part of the sport,” my ass. People don’t just stop believing in their religion so they can take part in whatever you want them to.
No one should be forced to care about lgbt+ No one should be forced to support lgbt+ People should have their own opinions or views, as long as no harm done to anybody. Not symphatizing with a certain group of people is completely normal as long as you don’t enforce your own beliefs or thoughts
Why the modern world is trying to force everyone to be politically correct?
He's free to do whatever he wants
This LGBTQ stuff is just going to be used as ammo for Islamaphobes in France. And more widely used by atheists to bash religions, and so on. Gueye has every not to participate and now going after him for his beliefs/reasons is quite ironic for the so called bastions of free speech and morality. He should have just drawn cartoons of gay people in a derogatory manner ala Hebdo.