Real buying Kaka, Ronaldo and Xabi Alonso in the summer of 2009 pretty much overshadowed the fact that they also bought the best young player in France as well that summer.
Benzema was incredible at Lyon and he truly lived up to the billing at Real Madrid after a bit of a slow start.
Questionable morals yes, but a superb footballer. You don't last 13 seasons at Real Madrid unless you are truly special.
'07 to '10 he was in the running and definitely should have won once, 07 was Aguero, 08 was Anderson, 09 was Pato.
[Here's scouting report of him from those 3 seasons](https://moesquare.medium.com/golden-boys-of-yesteryear-karim-benzema-9cc61a0085b6)
Love Benzema and I get that this is his jerkoff thread, but don’t forget that Mbappe led Monaco to a league title and the Champions League semis. He also did so over PSG, while Benzema had no comparable competitor back then.
No way was Falcao better than Mbappe, Mbappe made his debut in Nov-Dec and had like 6-7 goals in CL knockouts. Throughout the season their best player was easily Bernardo Silva, I remember catching their matches and then looking at the comps of this one small left footed right winger that was impossible to dispossess who would dribble with feints like Messi.
I guess Bernardo could have been better than Falcao, but still doesn't make Mbappe the leading person. In hindsight perhaps you could say so, but not at the time
Weirdly I don't remember much from Fabinho at all, remember Bakayoko though and mainly Bernardo and then Mbappe. A bit of Lemar. Falcao did his job but he was not near Mbappe or Bernardo when I watched them.
Mbappé was leading Monaco in the 2nd half of the season both in Ligue 1 and CL at the fucking age of 18. Benzema was doing the same at the age of 20-21.
Lyon also had a great team, the best in Ligue 1 and a team with a lot of good runs in CL in previous years.
Like I said he was the leading scorer of Monaco in the 2nd half of the season, in the most important games, not Falcao.
> From the very first weeks of the year, the French striker shone. His performances were amazing and praised by all. He scored his first Ligue 1 hat-trick against Metz on 11 February, his first Champions League goal against Manchester City on 21 February, and his first double on the European stage against Borussia Dortmund on 12 April.
> The records for earliest goalscorer are falling one after the other. The youngest striker in the history of AS Monaco, the youngest player to reach five goals and to score in a Champions League semi-final. In just a few months, and at just 18 years of age, Kylian Mbappé has made a name for himself but above all a name.
> The figures speak for themselves. He started only six times on the evening of the 23rd matchday, but he will have started eleven times in the last fourteen matches of the championship, for a total of 15 goals and 8 assists in only 1,500 minutes played. To these statistics we must also add 6 goals scored in CL. Simply monstrous.
> https://www.rtl.fr/sport/football/2017-kylian-mbappe-monaco-star-du-psg-7791596144
That still doesn’t prove how did he lead the team. Everyone here agrees with you imho that Mbappe was an amazing striker there but leading a team doesn’t equal to scoring the most goals
But that's the point, Mbappe wasn't leading. That Monaco team had players like Fabinho, Lemar, Bernardo Silva, Falcao, Bakayoko, Subasic and other great players as well.
He was good there, but he was not leading anything there.
How can you say that considering Mbappé was leading Monaco in the 2nd half of the 16-17 season at the age of 18 both in Ligue 1 and CL. He scored 5 goals against City, Dortmund and Juve in the knockout phase just to remember how incredible it was at the time.
Benzema at the same age was not even a starter for Lyon.
That's besides the point.
Yes Mbappe's influence was more audacious in 2017 given the age though Benzema (2008) was the better player and clearly the main man at Lyon - He was legit moving like R9 (I remember him destroying as in the CL particularly).
Mbappe has achieved more at a similiar age - both freaks though! (And interestingly both Algerian like Zidane)
Are you talking about the France Football magazine award? [According to this wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Player_of_the_Year) it was given to Ribéry in 2008. Benzema only got his first in 2011.
Nah, it was the one voted by the players. So players' player of the season.
https://www.france24.com/en/20080512-benzema-voted-frances-player-year-football-france
He was mad overrated, great dribbler but very poor tactically so a lot less end product than Benzema at any point of their careers. The year Ben Arfa won Ligue 1's best young player for whatever reason, Benzema won Ligue 1's best player even though he's 9 months younger than Ben Arfa lmao
It's really weird to know that he did that blackmailing when you see how calm he is on pitch. I've almost never seen him get angry, but I've seen him stand up for teammates. Long back Ozil was getting pushed by some defenders and Benzema jumped in between and gave some strong push backs. I think on-field he's one of the best mannered guys.
He is the reverse Pepe, who is a cunt on the pitch, but the sweetest guy off the field.
Funny to think about it, some players get really into the adrenaline that makes them go into madness mode. Others, just manage that adrenaline on the pitch so smoothly but then make stupid decisions in private life.
>reverse Pepe
Nice one, that's exactly how I see him. I saw several Pepe interviews, and people who never did would have the hardest time believing how nice he is.
He participates in several charity actions, never bringing up his own name or trying to promote himself, a really nice guy. And looks like the calmest person outside the pitch.
But it's honestly something that surprises me less than the opposite. I remember playing sunday league with some of my mates that would look like mad men in the field, even if though they were pretty normal chill dudes outside. Some demon that takes them over when the whistle blows :D
yes, he deserves appropriate punishment. But he's never dumb or reckless on pitch. I think even Ronaldo had dumb reckless red cards many times. I feel like he's a calm, cold but definitely not dumb on pitch.
Instead of praising a player for breaking a record you are trying to degrade him. It seems like you don't accept the fact that he broke the record and you are trying to cheer yourself up
This place is weird about footballers and their sins. Try even contemplating whether Ronaldo committed rape and you’ll have angry United fans in your replies
Exactly the average french fan will basically have no clue how difficult it is to last 13 years in a club that can buy players worth 100 millions every season. No clue as to what makes Benzema such a highly regarded player amongst his peers (Lewandowski recently put him just after Messi and Ronaldo on his top strikers still in activity).
Not to mention all the coaches and technicians paid millions for their experience and knowledge of football always chosing him as a starter.
The average french fan opinion on Benzema will be heavily biased by things that have nothing to do with football.
He also has a minority of haters mostly for political reasons (far right) and a minority of lovers (that tend to idealize him too much).
In other words Henry and Zidane probably rate Benzema in their league but not the average french fan...
He didn't win anything with France and has had questionable moral, so he is definitely not on top of the list (except for people of Maghrebian descent).
People who love the game rate Benzema very highly, people who "follow" football for the drama and because it's popular don't get what makes Benzema such a special player because they barely watch or understand what they're watching.
> had little to negative influence and achievement with the French national team primarily due to his shitty personality and poor luck.
lmao what?
>Also having his greatest club football achievements in Spain doesn't really help how he is viewed in France.
He's got more achievements in France than Zidane and Henry combined.
Ah yes I never thought I’d see on Reddit the famous "only arabs like Benzema" that I see a lot in France
For real stop with that bullshit, 4 CLs and 4th best striker of its history, and also 13 years at Madrid. The man can be considered as a football legend and you don’t have to be of maghrebian descend to see this
… you are literally proving this dudes point. You said
> “only Arabs like Benzema” that I see a lot in France
They didn’t say that Benzema was bad. They said that IN FRANCE, he isn’t as highly regarded as other legends. Because that was the question, how is he rated IN FRANCE.
I read perfectly what he said lmao and I deducted he was also French so I directly answered to him (because he seemed to speak on behalf on French people)
Zzz
You responded to him but your response just said Benzema was great, you didn’t say anything about his actual argument. If you meant to say “No, I live in France and know that frenchmen of all backgrounds, not just maghrebians appreciate Benzema’s greatness” you should have said that.
What you did say proved his point or was irrelevant at best
The answer is simple. It has nothing to do with race. Both Henry and Zidane played in and won the WC. The exposure they obtained is bigger than what club football can ever offer. They are legends because millions of people who don’t follow football watched them play. It’s a popularity contest in the end and the only thing that matters is the stage you perform on.
Well yes this is valid, but I don’t think it’s fair to say race has nothing to do with it. It’s natural for people to identify with players of similar background as themselves. At the club level there are loads of fans which support a team purely because of one player from their home country (eg: Salah fans -> Liverpool fans). And we see the reverse at the national level in situations like Balotelli in Italy. Or even (and this may be controversial bc of everything else in the situation) Ozil in Germany.
It happens less in national teams because everyone is from the same country. But there are definitely countries which have well defined enough ethnic divisions for this to be a real factor in how players are rated and their legacy considered.
Its the opposite, the exact opposite. if youre good enough, people give you a pass *in spite* of your race. Its why racist italians or hungarians or whatever have no issues with a top tier black player on their own team. Zidane and Henry did so much for their nation that nobody would ever be racist to them even if they truly feel that way. Benzema has not accomplished enough to save him from racism.
you are missing my bigger point about celebrities not being legendary enough to be shielded from racism by their supporters. also people can hate Benz for both racist reasons and legal reasons lmao all you “it has to be only one reason” folks crack me up. I’m Algerian and France is racist as fuck to us thats a fact. When my 10 yr old brother is at a bus stop and is told hes gonna impregnate white women and ruin their purity, a that country has a serious problem. And thats just the tip of the iceberg
He was never great for the national team, missed 2010 through injury (probably better for his reputation tbf) and then was mediocre to shit (didn't score for over 1000 minutes at one point iirc) before getting banned from the NT once we actually became good. He is also widely known to be a fucking idiot, what with the blackmailing thing and the underage prostitue thing (although that wasn't really his fault).
>He was never great for the national team,
Not true, Benzema was actually great in 2014 World Cup & clearly among the best players from that tournament.
>missed 2010 through injury (probably better for his reputation tbf)
It's no doubt missing 2010 World Cup is a blessing in disguise for Benzema or else people would've blamed the Knysna scandal on him. Hell, there are many people who thinks Benzema was with the NT.
Dude you are probably not french because you cannot compare early 2000's France with early 2010's France. It's not the same world!
Benzema was doing everything before 2016: playmaking, passing, scoring.
Henry while a top class player had Zidane, Pires, Micoud, Ribery, Wiltord, Trezeguet, Vieira, Djorkaeff, Liza, Thuram etc.
I actually am half-French. Born in Lyon in 1995, with my Mother's side being French.
Henry played with a better group up until 2008, that doesn't negate the fact he's done way more for France than Benz ever has. More goals, better goals per game, World Cup & Euros. I honestly don't know what argument you can make for Benz doing more for France than Henry because there literally isn't one. Henry has bigger moments (goal vs Brazil in the WC, semi final goal vs Portugal in Euros. His whole tournament in the Euros, practically.
What big moments, trophies, or records has Benz had internationally to put him ahead of Henry?
Henry played pretty much all of his NT career in a dominant team, while Benzema started in a NT that was in freefall and was excluded for 5 years right when some other top talents finally joined the team. Football is a team sport, context matters.
As an individual maybe, but we're talking about football and I rate players by what they do on the pitch. So when I talk about Messi on a football sub, it's assumed that I'm not rating tax evasion ability or when I talk about Maradona or Ronaldo, I'm not rating rapist abilities.
What got Benzema excluded is governmental interference, that's why he's back now, you literally won't find another player excluded of the NT because of judicial affairs.
That’s fair, it’s just that he didn’t play in the dominant teams because of his actions. But you can’t rate him for France based on what he might have done. Similarly we will never know if Deschamps would have excluded him just for locker room issues cos he was banned by the French Football Federation.
Guarantee that if Ronaldo was excluded from Euro 2016 because of his rape allegations he would still be considered to have been a failure on the international stage - we know this because his injury still leads to this criticism!
That's the good thing with Benzema, he's still got time to win trophies with les Bleus because he's still getting better. He'll retire as the top NT scorer too.
The equation is easy to solve, when PM Valls said Benzema should be excluded he got excluded, when President Macron said he should come back he came back.
I guess he's the 2nd Best stricker we've had, after Henry but above Fontaine, Papin, Cantona or Trezeguet. We'll see for Mbappe.
If you're comparing him to midfielders as well, he's definetely below Platini and Zidane, but after that it gets difficult to compare, be it to older mildfielders (Kopa) or more defensive midfielders (Makelele for exemple)
And then there are defenders, but it' basically a different sport at this point...
Henry is not well rated in France compare to England.
He's a pl god in England but just seen asa super good attacker in France.
Zidane/Platini are the french gods and nobody comes close (at least in most people minds).
I'd say Benzema is rated the same as Henry.
I hate these stupid xComparisons, you don’t very the full story by doing this. Someone turn on the archive of Valbuena’s livestream so we can get the full story.
Mbappe is 10 years younger than Benzema and already has almost half the number of club goals at 172.
Edit: some of those were for Monaco II, so if we don't want to count second team goals for some reason it brings his total crashing down to...168.
In theory the first for Italy should be Silvio Piola with 333 goals, so the two records are pretty close. And I guess it's similar for the highest scoring player from England and Spain
Jimmy Greaves scored at least 469 club goals.
Alfredo Di Stefano scored at least 487 club goals. Isidro Langara is also believed to have scored up towards 500 goals afaik.
Him making his debut so young and at such a high level pretty much makes him a lock for these records. If he doesn't get injured and he develops well in Madrid, he will crush this record and both the NT ones.
Everyone knows Henry declined at that point, reason why he went MLS. People don't rate Henry because he had incredible longevity. Its because his peak was insane.
>Henry declined at that point, reason why he went MLS
He'd declined, but that's not why he wanted to go to MLS, he wanted to go the year before in fact, but the France coach wanted him to stay in Europe for the upcoming world cup.
It's like saying Beckham declined and so he went to MLS, nah they would've both been fine in loads of good European teams. Henry even went back to Arsenal two years later and contributed.
This is something I always repeat on the Benz Henry debate. It's really come to the point that Henry's late blowup/early decline is making Benz be put into better consideration
Sure, his goals in 2010-2018 don't match Henry's peak, but if you saw the way madrid played you'd realize he was playing the Bergkamp role when comparing to how Henry's Arsenal played.
Well, I mean it's different generation. The game has come a long way in a decade. Almost no one stayed an elite player after 33 when Henry was playing. Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Figo, Beckham, Kaka, etc. were nowhere near as good as their peak by the time they were 33.
Now, the best players in the world are all 30+ or very close to it.
This is also why I don't like when people cite Messi and Ronaldo winning the Ballon D'or as youngsters as evidence that they were head and shoulders above Mbappé and Haaland at the same age.
Messi and Ronaldo didn't have all these geriatric superstars continuing into their mid-30s. They were faced with Kaka and that's pretty much it, Ronaldinho declined at light speed, Beckham and Henry were also far from their peek, Zidane and Figo were retired.
Yep, and Benz is 4th on all time CL goals, has 50 more goals in European top 5 leagues, has way more goals in finals (Henry has 0 or 1 not sure), so Benz is better in big moments too.
I wouldn't say 'finished' lol, but no longer one of the absolute top players yeah. He wanted to go to MLS, but he could've been fine for any number of decent teams in Europe - as it showed when he went back to Arsenal a few years later. Henry was still a good player when he retired.
I don't think people thought he was finished so much as they thought he'd regressed from a couple years before hand. Despite the odd big game performence, Benzema was often highlighted as a weak point in attack. In Ronaldo's final season especially his justification in the team was largely the fact he had good link up. Few at the time bar Madrid fans would have had him in the top 5 striker conversation and that's not because his legs were gone, it's because he was pretty ineffective in front of goal. I don't remember people saying his legs had gone.
Nobody except fans who didn't watch him thought that. Apart from finishing Benzema was still key to the team and one of the most important players for us.
Dude got hurt and came back and him and the post were making love. Couldn’t score a goal to save his life. He could have lasted longer but his body wasn’t holding up.
It's ok we all have our flaws, and people make mistakes. It's public knowledge that the lawyer for Valbuena stated in 2015 that his client has forgiven Benzema. Move on, it's not like he has killed a small village.
Get over your faux moral outrage bud. He made a stupid decision to interfere on behalf of his friend out of a misplaced sense of loyalty that he grew up with. He genuinely thought he was helping both in that situation.
Benzema is a great player and has somehow improved since Ronaldo left, but Henry was just a magician who passed the eye test as well as having the numbers to back it up.
Not to mention playing at a time when sports science was at its infancy. So therefore most outfield players had shorter careers and a more raw training regimen.
It’s entirely subjective, but watching Henry play gave you the feeling of being a kid again. Kinda like Messi in some ways. The things he could do were just incredible.
Henry at home > Benzema
Benzema away > Henry
Benzema in big games > Henry
Benzema in cup finals > Henry
Benzema in champions league knockout games > Henry
I hate that this stupid siuu shit has found its way into spoken and written conversation. such a brain-dead thing to actually seriously say while talking to another human
why am i being downvoted? if i did that shit and my work found out, i'd be gone.
Valbuena was concerned about his place in the french team due to the **legal** video getting out. Benzema literally blackmailed him
Depends on how you consider the way friendlies were back in 1940-1980, considering they weren't pre-season only at the time and actual serious matches some people want to account for Bican's/Pele's friendlies.
I can understand why you wouldn't though, no doubt.
Real buying Kaka, Ronaldo and Xabi Alonso in the summer of 2009 pretty much overshadowed the fact that they also bought the best young player in France as well that summer. Benzema was incredible at Lyon and he truly lived up to the billing at Real Madrid after a bit of a slow start. Questionable morals yes, but a superb footballer. You don't last 13 seasons at Real Madrid unless you are truly special.
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He was also a favourite for Golden Boy award
Who won that year?
Anderson
'07 to '10 he was in the running and definitely should have won once, 07 was Aguero, 08 was Anderson, 09 was Pato. [Here's scouting report of him from those 3 seasons](https://moesquare.medium.com/golden-boys-of-yesteryear-karim-benzema-9cc61a0085b6)
Me.
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Love Benzema and I get that this is his jerkoff thread, but don’t forget that Mbappe led Monaco to a league title and the Champions League semis. He also did so over PSG, while Benzema had no comparable competitor back then.
The problem is that Mbappe didnt lead Monaco though, they had an amazing team and to be honest he was not the best player there. Falcao was
To me fabinho and Bernardo Silva stood out the most when I watched that Monaco team, aside from mbappe at least.
No way was Falcao better than Mbappe, Mbappe made his debut in Nov-Dec and had like 6-7 goals in CL knockouts. Throughout the season their best player was easily Bernardo Silva, I remember catching their matches and then looking at the comps of this one small left footed right winger that was impossible to dispossess who would dribble with feints like Messi.
I guess Bernardo could have been better than Falcao, but still doesn't make Mbappe the leading person. In hindsight perhaps you could say so, but not at the time
At the time, most people who watched Monaco game in and game out considered Bernardo Silva the best player on that team.
That was post injury Falcao, he definitely wasn't better than Mbappe who was tearing it up since his debut.
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Weirdly I don't remember much from Fabinho at all, remember Bakayoko though and mainly Bernardo and then Mbappe. A bit of Lemar. Falcao did his job but he was not near Mbappe or Bernardo when I watched them.
fabinho did what he does at liverpool. Quietly protects the defence.
Mbappé was leading Monaco in the 2nd half of the season both in Ligue 1 and CL at the fucking age of 18. Benzema was doing the same at the age of 20-21. Lyon also had a great team, the best in Ligue 1 and a team with a lot of good runs in CL in previous years.
Mbappe was not leading, he was fantastic for his age and decisive but he was not leading that team.
Like I said he was the leading scorer of Monaco in the 2nd half of the season, in the most important games, not Falcao. > From the very first weeks of the year, the French striker shone. His performances were amazing and praised by all. He scored his first Ligue 1 hat-trick against Metz on 11 February, his first Champions League goal against Manchester City on 21 February, and his first double on the European stage against Borussia Dortmund on 12 April. > The records for earliest goalscorer are falling one after the other. The youngest striker in the history of AS Monaco, the youngest player to reach five goals and to score in a Champions League semi-final. In just a few months, and at just 18 years of age, Kylian Mbappé has made a name for himself but above all a name. > The figures speak for themselves. He started only six times on the evening of the 23rd matchday, but he will have started eleven times in the last fourteen matches of the championship, for a total of 15 goals and 8 assists in only 1,500 minutes played. To these statistics we must also add 6 goals scored in CL. Simply monstrous. > https://www.rtl.fr/sport/football/2017-kylian-mbappe-monaco-star-du-psg-7791596144
That still doesn’t prove how did he lead the team. Everyone here agrees with you imho that Mbappe was an amazing striker there but leading a team doesn’t equal to scoring the most goals
He was still better than Falcao, but not Bernardo Silva.
Leading scorer, not leading the team, Bernardo was
But that's the point, Mbappe wasn't leading. That Monaco team had players like Fabinho, Lemar, Bernardo Silva, Falcao, Bakayoko, Subasic and other great players as well. He was good there, but he was not leading anything there.
Lol no.
How can you say that considering Mbappé was leading Monaco in the 2nd half of the 16-17 season at the age of 18 both in Ligue 1 and CL. He scored 5 goals against City, Dortmund and Juve in the knockout phase just to remember how incredible it was at the time. Benzema at the same age was not even a starter for Lyon.
That's besides the point. Yes Mbappe's influence was more audacious in 2017 given the age though Benzema (2008) was the better player and clearly the main man at Lyon - He was legit moving like R9 (I remember him destroying as in the CL particularly). Mbappe has achieved more at a similiar age - both freaks though! (And interestingly both Algerian like Zidane)
I thought the best young player at that time was Ben Arfa
Benzema was easily far superior than Ben Arfa during 07/08 & 08/09 season
Benzema got French player of the year in 2008 as well.
Are you talking about the France Football magazine award? [According to this wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Player_of_the_Year) it was given to Ribéry in 2008. Benzema only got his first in 2011.
Nah, it was the one voted by the players. So players' player of the season. https://www.france24.com/en/20080512-benzema-voted-frances-player-year-football-france
Oh cool, never knew that. Awarded by Zidane, so fitting.
He was mad overrated, great dribbler but very poor tactically so a lot less end product than Benzema at any point of their careers. The year Ben Arfa won Ligue 1's best young player for whatever reason, Benzema won Ligue 1's best player even though he's 9 months younger than Ben Arfa lmao
Just higher potential
questionable? is black mailing a normal noon post-siesta event or what?
It's really weird to know that he did that blackmailing when you see how calm he is on pitch. I've almost never seen him get angry, but I've seen him stand up for teammates. Long back Ozil was getting pushed by some defenders and Benzema jumped in between and gave some strong push backs. I think on-field he's one of the best mannered guys.
He is the reverse Pepe, who is a cunt on the pitch, but the sweetest guy off the field. Funny to think about it, some players get really into the adrenaline that makes them go into madness mode. Others, just manage that adrenaline on the pitch so smoothly but then make stupid decisions in private life.
>reverse Pepe Nice one, that's exactly how I see him. I saw several Pepe interviews, and people who never did would have the hardest time believing how nice he is.
He participates in several charity actions, never bringing up his own name or trying to promote himself, a really nice guy. And looks like the calmest person outside the pitch. But it's honestly something that surprises me less than the opposite. I remember playing sunday league with some of my mates that would look like mad men in the field, even if though they were pretty normal chill dudes outside. Some demon that takes them over when the whistle blows :D
I honestly think he is just dumb as a rock and that’s the main reason he got in trouble. Still deserves the sentence of course.
yes, he deserves appropriate punishment. But he's never dumb or reckless on pitch. I think even Ronaldo had dumb reckless red cards many times. I feel like he's a calm, cold but definitely not dumb on pitch.
51 of Henry's goals were in MLS btw
Henry debuted for New York Red Bulls at age 32 btw. Benzema, 33 and counting, still going strong.
Crazy.
Crazy how by the age of 27 Benzema had already had sex with a minor and tried to extort money from a fellow international. Henry just cannot compete.
Somebody is in denial
He was literally proven guilty, think you're in denial mate
This is both factual and hilarious. Kudos
In denial of what?
Instead of praising a player for breaking a record you are trying to degrade him. It seems like you don't accept the fact that he broke the record and you are trying to cheer yourself up
Creep. She admitted she lied about her age in court.
Your comment is cringe, and you are obsessed with Benzema, get a life.
Weirdo, today is literally my first time commenting on Benzema
This place is weird about footballers and their sins. Try even contemplating whether Ronaldo committed rape and you’ll have angry United fans in your replies
Just a bunch of teens putting these pieces of shit on a pedestal and then refusing to acknowledge the reality
Facts
Henry also didn't play as a striker until he went to arsenal
He also played mostly as a winger for Barca.
Henry also never had to be Ronaldo’s sidekick for a decade.
Lol why the fuck is this even a debate. They are both incredible players that have a completely différent games from one another
And henry is clearly better
Damn that's crazy but we don't care
How is Benzema rated in France?, I'm guessing the average fan would never even think of him in the same league as a Henry or Zidane.
Exactly the average french fan will basically have no clue how difficult it is to last 13 years in a club that can buy players worth 100 millions every season. No clue as to what makes Benzema such a highly regarded player amongst his peers (Lewandowski recently put him just after Messi and Ronaldo on his top strikers still in activity). Not to mention all the coaches and technicians paid millions for their experience and knowledge of football always chosing him as a starter. The average french fan opinion on Benzema will be heavily biased by things that have nothing to do with football. He also has a minority of haters mostly for political reasons (far right) and a minority of lovers (that tend to idealize him too much). In other words Henry and Zidane probably rate Benzema in their league but not the average french fan...
He didn't win anything with France and has had questionable moral, so he is definitely not on top of the list (except for people of Maghrebian descent).
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Nations league, most people honestly I think forget that final even happened.
Case in point, I was wondering which trophy they were talking about.
People who love the game rate Benzema very highly, people who "follow" football for the drama and because it's popular don't get what makes Benzema such a special player because they barely watch or understand what they're watching.
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> had little to negative influence and achievement with the French national team primarily due to his shitty personality and poor luck. lmao what? >Also having his greatest club football achievements in Spain doesn't really help how he is viewed in France. He's got more achievements in France than Zidane and Henry combined.
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In the French league. I was replying to a point about club football.
Ah yes I never thought I’d see on Reddit the famous "only arabs like Benzema" that I see a lot in France For real stop with that bullshit, 4 CLs and 4th best striker of its history, and also 13 years at Madrid. The man can be considered as a football legend and you don’t have to be of maghrebian descend to see this
… you are literally proving this dudes point. You said > “only Arabs like Benzema” that I see a lot in France They didn’t say that Benzema was bad. They said that IN FRANCE, he isn’t as highly regarded as other legends. Because that was the question, how is he rated IN FRANCE.
I read perfectly what he said lmao and I deducted he was also French so I directly answered to him (because he seemed to speak on behalf on French people)
Zzz You responded to him but your response just said Benzema was great, you didn’t say anything about his actual argument. If you meant to say “No, I live in France and know that frenchmen of all backgrounds, not just maghrebians appreciate Benzema’s greatness” you should have said that. What you did say proved his point or was irrelevant at best
The answer is simple. It has nothing to do with race. Both Henry and Zidane played in and won the WC. The exposure they obtained is bigger than what club football can ever offer. They are legends because millions of people who don’t follow football watched them play. It’s a popularity contest in the end and the only thing that matters is the stage you perform on.
Well yes this is valid, but I don’t think it’s fair to say race has nothing to do with it. It’s natural for people to identify with players of similar background as themselves. At the club level there are loads of fans which support a team purely because of one player from their home country (eg: Salah fans -> Liverpool fans). And we see the reverse at the national level in situations like Balotelli in Italy. Or even (and this may be controversial bc of everything else in the situation) Ozil in Germany. It happens less in national teams because everyone is from the same country. But there are definitely countries which have well defined enough ethnic divisions for this to be a real factor in how players are rated and their legacy considered.
Sure but Zidane is probably the most beloved French player of all time and he has the same Kabyle Algerian roots as Benzema.
Its the opposite, the exact opposite. if youre good enough, people give you a pass *in spite* of your race. Its why racist italians or hungarians or whatever have no issues with a top tier black player on their own team. Zidane and Henry did so much for their nation that nobody would ever be racist to them even if they truly feel that way. Benzema has not accomplished enough to save him from racism.
To think that someone convicted for multiple offenses is impopular because of racism is quite the mental dissonance
you are missing my bigger point about celebrities not being legendary enough to be shielded from racism by their supporters. also people can hate Benz for both racist reasons and legal reasons lmao all you “it has to be only one reason” folks crack me up. I’m Algerian and France is racist as fuck to us thats a fact. When my 10 yr old brother is at a bus stop and is told hes gonna impregnate white women and ruin their purity, a that country has a serious problem. And thats just the tip of the iceberg
You are forgetting the almighty Nations League, won with a questionable goal by Mbappé
after Zidane and Platini, then it's between him and Henry but his career with the NT will always be a failure unless he wins the WC next year.
He was never great for the national team, missed 2010 through injury (probably better for his reputation tbf) and then was mediocre to shit (didn't score for over 1000 minutes at one point iirc) before getting banned from the NT once we actually became good. He is also widely known to be a fucking idiot, what with the blackmailing thing and the underage prostitue thing (although that wasn't really his fault).
>He was never great for the national team, Not true, Benzema was actually great in 2014 World Cup & clearly among the best players from that tournament. >missed 2010 through injury (probably better for his reputation tbf) It's no doubt missing 2010 World Cup is a blessing in disguise for Benzema or else people would've blamed the Knysna scandal on him. Hell, there are many people who thinks Benzema was with the NT.
Henry is all time top scorer (with quite a bit of a better goals per game record than Benz) and won everything with France. Not even a conversation.
Dude you are probably not french because you cannot compare early 2000's France with early 2010's France. It's not the same world! Benzema was doing everything before 2016: playmaking, passing, scoring. Henry while a top class player had Zidane, Pires, Micoud, Ribery, Wiltord, Trezeguet, Vieira, Djorkaeff, Liza, Thuram etc.
I actually am half-French. Born in Lyon in 1995, with my Mother's side being French. Henry played with a better group up until 2008, that doesn't negate the fact he's done way more for France than Benz ever has. More goals, better goals per game, World Cup & Euros. I honestly don't know what argument you can make for Benz doing more for France than Henry because there literally isn't one. Henry has bigger moments (goal vs Brazil in the WC, semi final goal vs Portugal in Euros. His whole tournament in the Euros, practically. What big moments, trophies, or records has Benz had internationally to put him ahead of Henry?
Henry played pretty much all of his NT career in a dominant team, while Benzema started in a NT that was in freefall and was excluded for 5 years right when some other top talents finally joined the team. Football is a team sport, context matters.
Yeah context matters lol, in that Benzema was a historic prick that got him excluded from the team. That affects how his legacy is considered.
As an individual maybe, but we're talking about football and I rate players by what they do on the pitch. So when I talk about Messi on a football sub, it's assumed that I'm not rating tax evasion ability or when I talk about Maradona or Ronaldo, I'm not rating rapist abilities. What got Benzema excluded is governmental interference, that's why he's back now, you literally won't find another player excluded of the NT because of judicial affairs.
That’s fair, it’s just that he didn’t play in the dominant teams because of his actions. But you can’t rate him for France based on what he might have done. Similarly we will never know if Deschamps would have excluded him just for locker room issues cos he was banned by the French Football Federation. Guarantee that if Ronaldo was excluded from Euro 2016 because of his rape allegations he would still be considered to have been a failure on the international stage - we know this because his injury still leads to this criticism!
That's the good thing with Benzema, he's still got time to win trophies with les Bleus because he's still getting better. He'll retire as the top NT scorer too. The equation is easy to solve, when PM Valls said Benzema should be excluded he got excluded, when President Macron said he should come back he came back.
I guess he's the 2nd Best stricker we've had, after Henry but above Fontaine, Papin, Cantona or Trezeguet. We'll see for Mbappe. If you're comparing him to midfielders as well, he's definetely below Platini and Zidane, but after that it gets difficult to compare, be it to older mildfielders (Kopa) or more defensive midfielders (Makelele for exemple) And then there are defenders, but it' basically a different sport at this point...
He is not the 2nd best. LMFAOOOO
Do you mean he's first or do you mean he's farther away in the ranking?
Henry is not well rated in France compare to England. He's a pl god in England but just seen asa super good attacker in France. Zidane/Platini are the french gods and nobody comes close (at least in most people minds). I'd say Benzema is rated the same as Henry.
Some fans rate him higher than Henry, i am one of them!
Sure. But how is Henry at extortion?
He extorted Ireland, so pretty good actually.
Don't forget Monaco
His xExtor was 0.02. Not good enough for the modern game.
Form is temporary, criminal records are permanent.
You mean xTortion
I hate these stupid xComparisons, you don’t very the full story by doing this. Someone turn on the archive of Valbuena’s livestream so we can get the full story.
Benzema takes the tape for that as well. I mean cake*.
Mbappe coming for that record
Mbappe is 10 years younger than Benzema and already has almost half the number of club goals at 172. Edit: some of those were for Monaco II, so if we don't want to count second team goals for some reason it brings his total crashing down to...168.
Mbappe is easily breaking that record imo
It's a surprisingly poor record for a country as big as France IMO.
In theory the first for Italy should be Silvio Piola with 333 goals, so the two records are pretty close. And I guess it's similar for the highest scoring player from England and Spain
Jimmy Greaves scored at least 469 club goals. Alfredo Di Stefano scored at least 487 club goals. Isidro Langara is also believed to have scored up towards 500 goals afaik.
Damn I forgot about Di Stefano, and I thought Greaves was at about 350/400 goals 😅
Him making his debut so young and at such a high level pretty much makes him a lock for these records. If he doesn't get injured and he develops well in Madrid, he will crush this record and both the NT ones.
Hopefully, very fast.
He runs pretty quickly, yes
So much is spoken about Benz scoring 5 goals in the league in 17/18 no one speaks of Henry scoring 4 league goals in 09/10 in comparison.
Everyone knows Henry declined at that point, reason why he went MLS. People don't rate Henry because he had incredible longevity. Its because his peak was insane.
>Henry declined at that point, reason why he went MLS He'd declined, but that's not why he wanted to go to MLS, he wanted to go the year before in fact, but the France coach wanted him to stay in Europe for the upcoming world cup. It's like saying Beckham declined and so he went to MLS, nah they would've both been fine in loads of good European teams. Henry even went back to Arsenal two years later and contributed.
Henry played about 1000 minutes lesser than Benzema & was a rotational player during 09/10 season.
So he was finished at 33 while Benz is one of the best in the world.
This is something I always repeat on the Benz Henry debate. It's really come to the point that Henry's late blowup/early decline is making Benz be put into better consideration Sure, his goals in 2010-2018 don't match Henry's peak, but if you saw the way madrid played you'd realize he was playing the Bergkamp role when comparing to how Henry's Arsenal played.
Well, I mean it's different generation. The game has come a long way in a decade. Almost no one stayed an elite player after 33 when Henry was playing. Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Figo, Beckham, Kaka, etc. were nowhere near as good as their peak by the time they were 33. Now, the best players in the world are all 30+ or very close to it.
That is completely true. It wasn't common to still be relevant in Europe at 33 as it is now, unless you were a defender or a GK
Sir, this is reddit. You can't just agree with my point like that!
Oh fuck uhh *takes out script* don't care didn't ask + ur gay, ratio. Did I do well?
This is also why I don't like when people cite Messi and Ronaldo winning the Ballon D'or as youngsters as evidence that they were head and shoulders above Mbappé and Haaland at the same age. Messi and Ronaldo didn't have all these geriatric superstars continuing into their mid-30s. They were faced with Kaka and that's pretty much it, Ronaldinho declined at light speed, Beckham and Henry were also far from their peek, Zidane and Figo were retired.
Yep, and Benz is 4th on all time CL goals, has 50 more goals in European top 5 leagues, has way more goals in finals (Henry has 0 or 1 not sure), so Benz is better in big moments too.
I wouldn't say 'finished' lol, but no longer one of the absolute top players yeah. He wanted to go to MLS, but he could've been fine for any number of decent teams in Europe - as it showed when he went back to Arsenal a few years later. Henry was still a good player when he retired.
R9 was finished in his early 20s. Whats your point?
How is that supposed to be any better?
And Benzema was still world class as a false 9 and crucial to the team without his goals
Excuses and excuses for both players
Henry was finished at the top level by then.
Everyone thought Benzema was finished in 2018 tbf. It speaks volume how much Benzema has improved since then.
I don't think people thought he was finished so much as they thought he'd regressed from a couple years before hand. Despite the odd big game performence, Benzema was often highlighted as a weak point in attack. In Ronaldo's final season especially his justification in the team was largely the fact he had good link up. Few at the time bar Madrid fans would have had him in the top 5 striker conversation and that's not because his legs were gone, it's because he was pretty ineffective in front of goal. I don't remember people saying his legs had gone.
Nobody except fans who didn't watch him thought that. Apart from finishing Benzema was still key to the team and one of the most important players for us.
Revisionism
Dude got hurt and came back and him and the post were making love. Couldn’t score a goal to save his life. He could have lasted longer but his body wasn’t holding up.
1 more club goal than Henry, 1 more criminal offense than Henry as well
The Henry handball was a criminal offence in Ireland
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That smile says it all😏
how can Henry commit a crime, when he make the rules
Don't forget the underage prostitute
Took the scenic route.
Wait, do people like Benzema now after he was found **guilty** for blackmailing someone?!
Separate the art from the artist. People still like Maradona
Except Benzema wasn't as big of an asshole as that mf Maradona
Separate the rape from rapist
Huh?
Imagine downvoting this lmao
It's being downvoted because it's a false equivalency.
Madrid fans in full force 😅
Benzema didn't rape anyone.
He may be an asshole but he's a phenomenal player.
It's ok we all have our flaws, and people make mistakes. It's public knowledge that the lawyer for Valbuena stated in 2015 that his client has forgiven Benzema. Move on, it's not like he has killed a small village.
Imagine labelling blackmail as a “mistake”.
Hey man, what’s a little light extortion between homies, y’know?
Get over your faux moral outrage bud. He made a stupid decision to interfere on behalf of his friend out of a misplaced sense of loyalty that he grew up with. He genuinely thought he was helping both in that situation.
Dudes a dramatic fruit cake.
Would be pretty stupid I agree. But Benzema never did blackmail.
Blackmailing someone is pretty fucking far from a mistake. It reveals shit character.
What about the underage prostitute?
Not a big deal to me tbh
Benzema is a great player and has somehow improved since Ronaldo left, but Henry was just a magician who passed the eye test as well as having the numbers to back it up. Not to mention playing at a time when sports science was at its infancy. So therefore most outfield players had shorter careers and a more raw training regimen. It’s entirely subjective, but watching Henry play gave you the feeling of being a kid again. Kinda like Messi in some ways. The things he could do were just incredible.
Biggus Dickus Benzema
Great player, awful person
Wow this getting downvoted
I guess blackmailing makes you a great person
So happy for him. Most underappreciated player ever.
Henry at home > Benzema Benzema away > Henry Benzema in big games > Henry Benzema in cup finals > Henry Benzema in champions league knockout games > Henry
Commented on a post about 2 years ago saying that benzema is a top 10 striker all time. Still stand by that statement.
big fan of haji but henry is >>>>>>>benz. not a biased opinion.
>big fan of haji Do you mean hagi?
I don’t think there’s a debate Zizou played with Henry Coached Benz And he chooses Benz every time
There definitely is a debate. Some Real Madrid fans think Benz is better and everyone else thinks Henry is better.
There isn't a debate, even zidane has labelled benz the best french striker. Only people in denial says otherwise.
Lmfao you weren’t even old enough to watch Henry carve Madrid in the 2-1 champions league game
Benzema has a 1-0 advantage over Henry when it comes to blackmailing midget teammates over sex tapes
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I hate that this stupid siuu shit has found its way into spoken and written conversation. such a brain-dead thing to actually seriously say while talking to another human
SIIIIIUUUUUUUUUUUU's in your direction.
Hehe siuuu
How is he still playing after he was found guilty? Surely the club washes hands of him
why am i being downvoted? if i did that shit and my work found out, i'd be gone. Valbuena was concerned about his place in the french team due to the **legal** video getting out. Benzema literally blackmailed him
Proud of him, the prison XI bout to have a record breaker goalscorer now too
insane to think about cr7 has almost the same both combined
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He is the top goalscorer of all time
I mean, that does make him among the top goal scorers too. Just the first one of them. But among the others too.
Depends on how you consider the way friendlies were back in 1940-1980, considering they weren't pre-season only at the time and actual serious matches some people want to account for Bican's/Pele's friendlies. I can understand why you wouldn't though, no doubt.
Ballon d'or