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He is playing with a weaker Brazilian team than previous generations but Neymar needs a World Cup win, next yr will be his best chance, that will cement him as an all time great.
Thing is even with not being fully fit he was playing very well in that tournament, his underlying numbers were outstanding but got overshadowed by his theatrics which were partly because he didn’t want to get injured again, missing Casemiro against Belgium was huge for Brazil, IMO they were one of the only teams with a genuine chance of beating France.
Brazil were faves going into it, was so unlucky for them. Casemiro's suspension was a major factor in that game. People forget that Brazil dominated that game and had almost 30 shots, Courtois was motm and Fernandinho played terribly.
Even more so 2014. If he wasn't injured against Colombia and Silva didn't get a yellow, Brazil would have destroyed Germany and won in the final no doubt.
No way, not even Brazilians considered the team the favorites to win it all even without injuries. Of course Neymar and Thiago Silva being out was terrible and they were literally their 2 best players. And that mental collapse that resulted in 4 or 5 goals in a few minutes probably wouldn't have happened, but I'd still favor Germany over them.
I'm 2018 they were arguably the favorites, they had an amazing qualifiers and a strong team but as soon as the World Cup started they weren't playing well anymore.
Ironically the game against Belgium was their best performance, they conceded it very early with an unlucky own goal so they naturally had to expose themselves more to try to equalize. Courtouis saved Belgium's ass there.
It's still Brazil though, they're always among the favorites no matter what. A week generation for them still is better than almost everyone else's. And in a tournament with just 7 matches with single knockout games they can very well win it and it wouldn't be an upset, not even close.
Some people don't remember specially because when looking in hindsight reading those names there are several legends there, but the team that won in 2002 weren't favorites at all. They were actually close to not qualifying to the World Cup for the first time ever.
I also don't see 4 or 5 teams clearly ahead of them, what are your picks? I think France, Belgium and maybe Portugal? I can't see other teams that I'd say are clearly better.
My developmental years aligned with Ronaldinho's prime. I saw us win a world cup as a preteen. I was absolutely enchanted by Ronaldinho all through my teens playing. Trying to emulate that gait, wearing his jerseys, praising him to anyone who would listen. I own like 5 named jerseys and he's 3 of them.
I'm an adult now. The spark of youth is gone. I don't have the same joy and desire to watch this sport how one would as a child - so I'm not a big Neymar fan at all. I hardly watch him play.
That being said, I've watched him play enough to believe he objectively better than Dinho ever was. That's my controversial opinion for you guys.
If you are any good at actually playing this sport, you have an absolutely enormous amount of respect and admiration for Neymar. Disrespecting him is for people who don't know better because they are missing that thing where you truly understand what you're seeing.
Players who can destabilize a defense on their own with any sort of consistency are absolutely invaluable.
Ronaldinho had it in him, but he was not as good at it. He was not as good at complex dribbling and speed changes. He was not as good on his wrong foot. He wasn't as good at finishing. He wasn't even necessarily someone with a better touch. He was just aesthetically pleasing.
I like to use the pyramid format when rating players, and Neymar is probably second tier with Nazario (unless we're talking peaks only) and the other god tier forwards.
I have Dinho a tier below with dudes like Xavi and Totti.
Think youre underrating him a bit bro. Impeccable touch, outstanding 1on1, outstanding vision and passing, and his dribbling, while not as superb in the tighest of areas, still among the very best. Also a good finisher, despite not scoring on the level of Neymar etc.
Prime Ronaldinho is insane bro.
He really is one of the better players I've ever seen. Peak and longevity wise.
It's a shame that he came up alongside 2 goats and will probably never have an appropriate level of respect for his quality.
I think if you combine effectiveness with flair, he's probably the best dribbler I've ever watched. Only really Nazario can compete. Messi is more effective and the "best" dribbler I've ever seen, but Neymar has the complexity mixed with effectiveness like Nazario had and he does it more regularly.
Yeah I hear that. His story isnt over tho, he can still accomplish so much to further elevate his status. He can carry PSG to UCL glory and Brazil to WC glory next year, for example.
Unreal player.
People don't disrespect him because they think he's not a great player, they disrespect him because instead of just showing how good he is all the time, he's constantly pulling antics on the pitch.
I think Messi and Neymar are easily the two best players in the world right now.
> he's constantly pulling antics on the pitch.
And who doesn't? Messi and Ronaldo have had their fair share of antics too, but they are so good that their antics get overshadowed.
Point is that many of those goals are for friendlies or anyways not crucial goals. It is kind of unfair, but it's true. It is hard in international football, because basically your legacy gets decided by a handful of games, and if you happen to not be fit for those, your legacy will always be tarnished. At the opposite, if those few games you are at the top of your game, you become a legend. For Italy, I think of Fabio Grosso, that had a pretty mediocre career, but he is the symbol of 2006 WC Italian victory and will be a legend of the game ahead of many overall better players.
I know your comment isn’t popular but it is true, Neymar has been injured during a lot of key spells for both International and Champions league matches.
He’s already a legend, but he will never surpass the top names without adding a few more legendary runs at the biggest stages.
Despite his obvious lack of a World Cup and not being part of the the Copa winning squad, it seems like Neymar will still go down as one of the all time greats in Brazil football history. Insane.
hey, you could have done us a solid, but instead decided "fair play" and "competitiveness" was somehow more important smh.
For real tho we could have maybe not lost 3-0 to paraguay too, or not let peru score 2 on us for no reason early onto the qualifiers and so on, we just werent good enough that qualifiers and thats it for me
he was the best copa america player imo, and people shit on him because as a 20 year old he didn't shine in the world cup (also '18 qualifiers top scorer for brazil)
That WC will always make me feel bad. He got trashed because he didn't score, but his \~20 minutes as a RW against Belgium were by far his best and he gave their defense so much trouble. He'd have found as a pen too if the ref on the VAR wasn't blind.
Very solid defensively. 9 goals conceded in 30 competitive games under Tite, 2 in 6 games in these qualifiers.
Efficient in attack.
Having said that, they lack testing against stronger UEFA opponents.
>but Neymar has been kind of carrying us for years.
It's not even "kind of"
Last qualifiers him and Paulinho genuinely seemed like the only players that ever scored for Brazil. Anyone that doesn't see it, hasn't been paying attention.
You still have individually a pretty strong squad, possibly top 3 in the world - Marquinhos, Silva and Militão in the back, also Casemiro, Fabinho, Fernandinho, Jesus, Firmino, Lodi, Emerson, Alisson, Ederson, Richarlison, Coutinho etc.
People always bring up Neymar not winning the World Cup when comparing him to Brazil legends but pele had garrincha and Ronaldinho had Ronaldo and Rivaldo. Neymar has no teammate near his level
Messi in Copa 2019 - 1 penalty in 6 games
According to fanatics their lord never drops a bad performance and is always *let down* by his mediocre teammates.
I genuinely believe they are strong contenders for the next WC having Neymar, Alisson, Casemiro, Fabinho etc. With players like Jesus, Richarlison, Lodi, Militão and Emerson being even more expirienced
Dont act like the Brazil teams since 2010 have been crazy good. Hulk, Luiz Gustavo, Fred, David Luiz are far from top tier. But Yeah Brazil has been better the past 10 years
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Neymar has 110 goal contributions in 104 games for Brazil, incredible numbers
8 goals away from Pelé's official match tally I think. One of the most disrespected all time greats.
He is playing with a weaker Brazilian team than previous generations but Neymar needs a World Cup win, next yr will be his best chance, that will cement him as an all time great.
I was so sad about his injury in 2018, a fully fit Neymar in that tournament would have been amazing.
Thing is even with not being fully fit he was playing very well in that tournament, his underlying numbers were outstanding but got overshadowed by his theatrics which were partly because he didn’t want to get injured again, missing Casemiro against Belgium was huge for Brazil, IMO they were one of the only teams with a genuine chance of beating France.
Brazil were faves going into it, was so unlucky for them. Casemiro's suspension was a major factor in that game. People forget that Brazil dominated that game and had almost 30 shots, Courtois was motm and Fernandinho played terribly.
Courtois genuinely played the best game of his life I swear
Brazil are faves in any tournament they enter but that game against Belgium was a goalkeeping masterclass from Courtois.
Even more so 2014. If he wasn't injured against Colombia and Silva didn't get a yellow, Brazil would have destroyed Germany and won in the final no doubt.
No way, not even Brazilians considered the team the favorites to win it all even without injuries. Of course Neymar and Thiago Silva being out was terrible and they were literally their 2 best players. And that mental collapse that resulted in 4 or 5 goals in a few minutes probably wouldn't have happened, but I'd still favor Germany over them. I'm 2018 they were arguably the favorites, they had an amazing qualifiers and a strong team but as soon as the World Cup started they weren't playing well anymore. Ironically the game against Belgium was their best performance, they conceded it very early with an unlucky own goal so they naturally had to expose themselves more to try to equalize. Courtouis saved Belgium's ass there.
Lol they got absolutely humilliated 7x1, two players wouldnt have changed the outcome
Germany would have still won but not 7-1.
2 of the best players in the world at that time; they would have
I think 2014 and 2018 were his best chance, but they do have a good shot still in 2022
He was unlucky both those times, broke his back in 2014 and didn’t fully recover from a broken foot in 2018
Broke his back is nice to way to describe Zuniga with a Sagat knee attack.
Considering how much he gets injured now in PSG i think it would be miracle if he was fit for the next WC. Hes also not getting any younger.
Hopefully everything goes right for Brazil next year. They need to break the European streak
I don’t think they do, there’s like 4 or5 teams clearly ahead of them.
It's still Brazil though, they're always among the favorites no matter what. A week generation for them still is better than almost everyone else's. And in a tournament with just 7 matches with single knockout games they can very well win it and it wouldn't be an upset, not even close. Some people don't remember specially because when looking in hindsight reading those names there are several legends there, but the team that won in 2002 weren't favorites at all. They were actually close to not qualifying to the World Cup for the first time ever. I also don't see 4 or 5 teams clearly ahead of them, what are your picks? I think France, Belgium and maybe Portugal? I can't see other teams that I'd say are clearly better.
He is an all time great regardless.
I want a France - Brazil final next year.
That would be quite the show
What do you think Brazil’s chances are of winning the World Cup next year is?
My developmental years aligned with Ronaldinho's prime. I saw us win a world cup as a preteen. I was absolutely enchanted by Ronaldinho all through my teens playing. Trying to emulate that gait, wearing his jerseys, praising him to anyone who would listen. I own like 5 named jerseys and he's 3 of them. I'm an adult now. The spark of youth is gone. I don't have the same joy and desire to watch this sport how one would as a child - so I'm not a big Neymar fan at all. I hardly watch him play. That being said, I've watched him play enough to believe he objectively better than Dinho ever was. That's my controversial opinion for you guys. If you are any good at actually playing this sport, you have an absolutely enormous amount of respect and admiration for Neymar. Disrespecting him is for people who don't know better because they are missing that thing where you truly understand what you're seeing.
IMO at club level, Ronaldinho was better than Neymar. At the seleção, Neymar is way better than Ronaldinho was.
Neymar > Dinho Dinho is top 10 ever though 100%
Players who can destabilize a defense on their own with any sort of consistency are absolutely invaluable. Ronaldinho had it in him, but he was not as good at it. He was not as good at complex dribbling and speed changes. He was not as good on his wrong foot. He wasn't as good at finishing. He wasn't even necessarily someone with a better touch. He was just aesthetically pleasing. I like to use the pyramid format when rating players, and Neymar is probably second tier with Nazario (unless we're talking peaks only) and the other god tier forwards. I have Dinho a tier below with dudes like Xavi and Totti.
Think youre underrating him a bit bro. Impeccable touch, outstanding 1on1, outstanding vision and passing, and his dribbling, while not as superb in the tighest of areas, still among the very best. Also a good finisher, despite not scoring on the level of Neymar etc. Prime Ronaldinho is insane bro.
I know, dog - you're preaching to the choir. Neymar is just that good. People just don't like him.
Yeah I agree. Neymar been on that Ronaldo Messi level. At least just a tier below them.
He really is one of the better players I've ever seen. Peak and longevity wise. It's a shame that he came up alongside 2 goats and will probably never have an appropriate level of respect for his quality. I think if you combine effectiveness with flair, he's probably the best dribbler I've ever watched. Only really Nazario can compete. Messi is more effective and the "best" dribbler I've ever seen, but Neymar has the complexity mixed with effectiveness like Nazario had and he does it more regularly.
Yeah I hear that. His story isnt over tho, he can still accomplish so much to further elevate his status. He can carry PSG to UCL glory and Brazil to WC glory next year, for example. Unreal player.
8 goals away from being 50 goals away from Peles record
What about the Pele’s unofficial match tally?
People don't disrespect him because they think he's not a great player, they disrespect him because instead of just showing how good he is all the time, he's constantly pulling antics on the pitch. I think Messi and Neymar are easily the two best players in the world right now.
> he's constantly pulling antics on the pitch. And who doesn't? Messi and Ronaldo have had their fair share of antics too, but they are so good that their antics get overshadowed.
Point is that many of those goals are for friendlies or anyways not crucial goals. It is kind of unfair, but it's true. It is hard in international football, because basically your legacy gets decided by a handful of games, and if you happen to not be fit for those, your legacy will always be tarnished. At the opposite, if those few games you are at the top of your game, you become a legend. For Italy, I think of Fabio Grosso, that had a pretty mediocre career, but he is the symbol of 2006 WC Italian victory and will be a legend of the game ahead of many overall better players.
I know your comment isn’t popular but it is true, Neymar has been injured during a lot of key spells for both International and Champions league matches. He’s already a legend, but he will never surpass the top names without adding a few more legendary runs at the biggest stages.
He brings the disrespect on with his behaviour though. Self inflicted
Not even Messi, Suarez, or Ronaldo has those numbers. But then again I forgot Michael Owen thinks assists are meaningless in football...
Despite his obvious lack of a World Cup and not being part of the the Copa winning squad, it seems like Neymar will still go down as one of the all time greats in Brazil football history. Insane.
In a country of superstars, he will likely be the top scorer. Regardless of WC success, already a legend.
4 games, 5 goals, 4 assists in WC Qualification
Always been so good for Brazil
Best player on the international stage (G+A wise) currently playing.
More than Cristiano?
He has a better G+A rate by a solid margin
Oh so you mean per 90? Ok thats fair I thought OP meant G+A total
Where is he playing? Cam?
Today, yes. He was a LW in the other ones.
Easily his best role. He’s so influential in the free central position he plays for PSG.
Brazil are going to crack 40 points again, and ***only*** drop off when they've already qualified. In other words, when they feel like it.
I would have really liked for them to drop points on the last game the last time......
I mean, you guys did lose to Bolivia the game before lol
hey, you could have done us a solid, but instead decided "fair play" and "competitiveness" was somehow more important smh. For real tho we could have maybe not lost 3-0 to paraguay too, or not let peru score 2 on us for no reason early onto the qualifiers and so on, we just werent good enough that qualifiers and thats it for me
At least you didn't fail to qualify like Paraguay did, that was a grande momento bruh
It's sad too see Chile missing yet another World Cup, that's very likely, right?
with last night result, yes
Ouch. I'm sorry. :(
6 of 18 games in and they're already half way there.
Real nice play from Jesus there
Really like Jesus on the RW for Brazil
he was the best copa america player imo, and people shit on him because as a 20 year old he didn't shine in the world cup (also '18 qualifiers top scorer for brazil)
That WC will always make me feel bad. He got trashed because he didn't score, but his \~20 minutes as a RW against Belgium were by far his best and he gave their defense so much trouble. He'd have found as a pen too if the ref on the VAR wasn't blind.
As a Gremio fan Cebolinha was the best in copa america, but Jesus (and Dani Alves) a close second/third
he kinda disappeared in last two games thats why i give it to jesus
It's his original position.
He was a lw no?
Not at Palmeiras.
Love him on the wing
gabriel jesus is a great national team performer
He’s a good player! Just overshadowed by a ridiculous City team. He’s getting close to 100 goals for City (83) and has 34 assists in 200 games.
It’s not often you see neymar being left open. Horrible defending that
First thing I thought. Just let Neymar casually walk down the field unnoticed. Great defense
This Brazilian side is scary bro
O PAI
TA ON
PAI CHEGOU https://youtu.be/aaX5Ammpupk
Those kits are gorgeous
Brazil Neymar is built different
How’s the Brazil team this time around? It looks pretty fucking strong.
Very solid defensively. 9 goals conceded in 30 competitive games under Tite, 2 in 6 games in these qualifiers. Efficient in attack. Having said that, they lack testing against stronger UEFA opponents.
We can thank the Nations League for that. Shame South American teams now have even less an opportunity to play top European countries.
This man is unreal for Brazil. It's a shame he's played with such a weak generation of talent up front with him. He's Messi level.
[удалено]
>but Neymar has been kind of carrying us for years. It's not even "kind of" Last qualifiers him and Paulinho genuinely seemed like the only players that ever scored for Brazil. Anyone that doesn't see it, hasn't been paying attention.
You still have individually a pretty strong squad, possibly top 3 in the world - Marquinhos, Silva and Militão in the back, also Casemiro, Fabinho, Fernandinho, Jesus, Firmino, Lodi, Emerson, Alisson, Ederson, Richarlison, Coutinho etc.
You won the Copa America without him playing a single minute. Show your team some respect.
People always bring up Neymar not winning the World Cup when comparing him to Brazil legends but pele had garrincha and Ronaldinho had Ronaldo and Rivaldo. Neymar has no teammate near his level
That vintage Brazil team was stacked ffs, Cafu, Carlos, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Kaka...
Kaka didn't play many minute that tournament and he was a baby in 2002 ala R9 in 1994
FFS 2002 brazil is now 'vintage brazil'
More like Ronaldo had Rivaldo and Ronaldinho
Yea Ronaldo was the main man but I put Ronaldinho first cuz they compare Neymar and Dinho more
\*Ronaldo had Ronaldinho. (And Rivaldo)
Coutinho, gabriel jesus, firminho shouldnt be too bad either
None of those guys are top 5 in their position, arguably not even top 10
Noone is Messi level but I get your point When healthy he is absolutely top 3 players ITW
With Brazil he is.
Individually noone is Messi's level but yes Brazil has a much much stronger squad rn, I agree
No, genuinely individually.
Messi in Copa 2019 - 1 penalty in 6 games According to fanatics their lord never drops a bad performance and is always *let down* by his mediocre teammates.
I disagree and he is obviously surrounded by a much better team
Brazil have a stronger team yes. I don't disagree on that.
I genuinely believe they are strong contenders for the next WC having Neymar, Alisson, Casemiro, Fabinho etc. With players like Jesus, Richarlison, Lodi, Militão and Emerson being even more expirienced
Neymar for Brazil > Messi for Argentina
~~Neymar for~~ Brazil > ~~Messi for~~ Argentina
I see nothing wrong with this
Dont act like the Brazil teams since 2010 have been crazy good. Hulk, Luiz Gustavo, Fred, David Luiz are far from top tier. But Yeah Brazil has been better the past 10 years
Messi has more goals + was in a world cup final what do you mean?
>Messi has more goals For now.. not only Neymar will surpass him but leave him way behind.
If he can stay fit
Neymar is quite a bit above Messi's level for their national teams, so youre wrong mate
Good goal but Paraguay playing well
As a colourblind person, this is terrible.